We have not fared well against Brisbane in recent times. I did not expect it to continue, but when we can't kick goals....
Ok, time to rest injured players (Cripps especially). There's nothing to be gained from risking marquee players. Play the kids and trade bait and work towards next season.
Ok, time to rest injured players (Cripps especially). There's nothing to be gained from risking marquee players. Play the kids and trade bait and work towards next season.
Not a lot of choice. Losing this one is like losing to Essendon: beyond the pale.
Not a lot of choice. Losing this one is like losing to Essendon: beyond the pale.
No that will come round 23, put your house on an Scum win.
Sub average.
Forward system is a worry - better by Buckley and Casboult.
Jones meh why even bother, Thomas just release him and Rowe out of form in a big way providing no protection and leadership showing his C Grade ranking .
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!
BRISBANE LIONS 7.2 12.3 14.7 15.9 (99)
CARLTON 3.2 5.5 9.12 13.17 (95)
GOALS
Brisbane Lions: Close 4, Zorko 3, Rockliff 2, Rich, Hanley, Smith, Lester, Walker, Cutler
Carlton: Casboult 4, Silvagni 3, Wright 2, Phillips, Boekhorst, Buckley, Armfield
BEST
Brisbane Lions: Zorko, Rockliff, Robinson, Gardiner, Close, Cutler
Carlton: Curnow, Casboult, Tuohy, Simpson, Buckley, Cripps
We were embarrassed by the Saints (again) last week and needed to respond this week and this is what we put up? FFS we just lost to Brisbane! They are being called the worst team of recent times, their coach is about to get the sack, they've been losing games by triple-digit margins and we fall short by much more than the margin indicates.
We had 22 more inside-50s. The level of incompetence it takes to waste that sort of I50 advantage is significant.
Any credits we earned earlier in the season (and indeed in recent close losses to top teams) has been wiped out by the last two weeks. Will get worse when we lose to the bombers in Rd23... I sure as hell won't be tipping us again.
Kicked our 3rd highest score for the year. just a pity the other mob, a crap mob at that, kicked more.
Kinda proved the importance of the midfield on match day. We were smashed to pieces by Rockliff, Zorko and Robbo in the first half. Their ball winning ability, run to space and them delivery to the fwd line was A grade today. Put pressure on our mids also, they schooled ours in the first half where the game was set up.
We had 22 more inside-50s. The level of incompetence it takes to waste that sort of I50 advantage is significant.
.......................................
Sometimes the I50 count is deceptive, because it gives an impression of scoring opportunity being greater than that of the opposition. Often times however, the I50 entries are actually quite shallow, and don't really result in meaningful scoring opportunities. One example where stats can be deceptive.
However, on this occasion, I would agree with you. Most of our I50 entries were quite reasonable, and we should've won by 4 goals min. Anyway............................
Very ordinary performance from a team that is obviously tired and replete with ordinary players, who, if the club do what I heard they will do, will be cleaned out at years end.
The nucleus of a reasonable team is there. Weitering, Charlie Curnow, Silvagni and mackay who is going to be very good but is a good 12 months away in his development.. Phillips is good in the ruck, Ploughman will improve with a full pre-season under his belt, Sam Doc has come of age as a reliable defender and Cripps is/will be a champion. Buckley needs to improve his motor so that he can run out a full game, Cieren Byrne will be good if he can come back from the reco, and I hope Sheahan can come back. And that's about it.
Gibbs will play the occasional good game for his half million, Thomas is stuffed, Murphy is too injury prone, Touhey will play one good one and one bad one, and lacks a football brain. Ed Curnow tries hard, but his skills are terrible and he aint gunna get better. I don't reckon that there is a worse handballer in the team. Can't hit a target and more often than not the ball falls into the hands of the opposition and gives away stupid frees. Kreuzer tries hard, but I wish he'd gone to the Pies and we'd got some decent draft picks for him. He is very limited. Almost forgot. I'd get rid of Levi. Too one dimensional and unreliable.
White is a plodder, Rowe is an absolute spud totally lacking a second effort, in fact he lacks, for the most part, a first effort. Armfield, is coming to the end, and only plays in flashes. Bokehorst hasn't got it. Simple as that. Jones is useless, the jury is out on Cunningham, and Kerridge, lacks foot skills and doesn't give us enough. Wright is not up to it, he's certainly no BEtts!! Everett is gone and hopefully will go, Nick Graham, is a very good reserves player, not up to the big time, and I don't reckon Jaksch will make it. There are lots in the two's who who won't make it, and I can see at least 10 going at years end.
Simmo, I left for last, because he's just a champion player for this club, and I hope he can come up again next year and give us a good year.
The club, as I have been told, are in year one of a three year plan, or as one high up told me, 21 games into a 66 game rebuild.
We just need to be patient and realistic, and not look at them through navy blue and white blinkers.
Believe me, the coach knows exactly who he is dealing with and exactly who he has got.
As one member of the panel told me, " at this point in time,we MIGHT have 4 players who could get a game with the three top teams, and that's it." He didn't want to name them.
So lets hope they finish 15th, get some decent draft picks and SOS can trade well, and let's all look forward to a better future.
...
As one member of the panel told me, " at this point in time,we MIGHT have 4 players who could get a game with the three top teams, and that's it." He didn't want to name them.
So lets hope they finish 15th, get some decent draft picks and SOS can trade well, and let's all look forward to a better future.
I'll play, but I'd say 5 or 6 - Cripps, Weeters, Doc, Simmo, Murph and maybe Gibbs
Sometimes the I50 count is deceptive, because it gives an impression of scoring opportunity being greater than that of the opposition. Often times however, the I50 entries are actually quite shallow, and don't really result in meaningful scoring opportunities. One example where stats can be deceptive.
However, on this occasion, I would agree with you. Most of our I50 entries were quite reasonable, and we should've won by 4 goals min. Anyway............................
Or they're bombs the forwards covered by a mass of defenders. hence cleared out immediately.
Or they're bombs the forwards covered by a mass of defenders. hence cleared out immediately.
Aye, true enough jimbo.
I'll play, but I'd say 5 or 6 - Cripps, Weeters, Doc, Simmo, Murph and maybe Gibbs
Tuohy would get a game in most sides.
In the off season can we PLEASE get a goal kicking coach. NO I will say a kicking coach.
We couldn't the side of a 60ft shed today with a bag of wheat.
17 behinds is bad but that doesn't account for the ones that didn't make it or no where near it (Kerridge). Very poor. >:(
SO DO WE GET THE PRIORITY PICK because the Bears beat us. :o
Because it is well known we are turning over soooo many players at the end of the season doesn't that mean are playing list is a basket case? ::)
Tuohy would get a game in most sides.
He said "the top 3 sides", not most sides. That's a huge difference. Touhey would get at game at Richmond or Collingwood. No way he'd get one at the Swans, hawthorn or geelong.
Sprouts today, anyone?
No sprouts only spuds
yeah yeah three good Players but I won't tell You who they are...?! I hate hawthorn but if that team has taught you one thing It's have a few stars but everyone else do their bit consistently
Sprouts today, anyone?
SOS continues to sprout I guess.
Our 1st half was terrible. Absolutely terrible.
I only listened to the 2nd half. Buckley, SOS, Levi seemed impressive. A good Buckley gives us real run. Saw Boekhorst got 11 touches, must've all been in the 2nd half, as I heard him mentioned alot. Dare not ask about the first half. Thought Casboult would go better when he had key position help. Allows him to move about more and not be covered by 3 defenders. Expecting him to be the only key forward was in a crap side was ridiculous and unfair on Levi. Now to drop a lumbering ruckman and replace them with a runner. Surely make a difference to speed and mobility as it did earlier in the year.
Jones burns two scoring chances. One a soda the other stupidity.
Levi burns a couple, neither difficult for the average U16 player.
Buckley sprays it with Jnr alone in the square for a Joe the Goose and we lose by less than kick.
Thomas never looks like it with a spray in the last 2 minutes. Did nothing of value all day and failed to deliver when it counted.
We had more than enough chances but above is but a small part of the whole problem.
BTW, getting rid of Robbo to improve Mick "super coach" Malthouse's "culture".... what an outstanding move.
In a weird way we've actually done ourselves a bit of damage by that sequence of wins early in the year.
"Conventional wisdom" is that wins are important for developing a winning culture but that bit of success....
-gave us a false sense of our actual position in terms of the rebuild
-raised expectations on the coaching and playing group
-may have cost us a priority pick
-meant little in terms of culture building because it is now a distant memory.
We have a long way to go and we're finishing the season with a tired and sore group.
Our 1st half was terrible. Absolutely terrible.
Agree, as bad as I've seen all year. :(
Rockcliff 39 possies......think he had 40 plus last time, we seem to be slow learners in the coaching box, not the first time Zorko has kicked our Ar$e either....
Wouldnt bother much with the last two games...rest Cripps bring in Whiley for his last game...give a few other players farewell games like Tutt, Graham, Jones...
SOSOS was my only positive today...cool under pressure and reliable in front of goal......if Ben is better than Jack then we have struck Gold..
Didnt mind young Cunningham either...still very light in the body but did put himself in and laid some tackles...
Bring on trade week and the draft, we need to hit both hard and replace the banana plantation that we have growing at Ikon park...
Sprouts today, anyone?
Cunningham sprouted 7 disposals, 3 marks, AND 8 tackles (second only to Ed's 9).
SOJ sprouted 3 goals.
I thought Boeky, Buckley lifted, albeit after half the game had past them by.
Levi kicked more goals than points and had an impact around the ground too.
Phillips showing some signs.
Weiters showed some attitude against one of his young rivals.
Crippa returned after an injury scare.
We might get a PP ::)
List management's got all they need to back and sack.
That's all and I've really scraped the bottom of the proverbial ;D
Go Blues
Cunningham sprouted 7 disposals, 3 marks, AND 8 tackles (second only to Ed's 9).
SOJ sprouted 3 goals.
I thought Boeky, Buckley lifted, albeit after half the game had past them by.
Levi kicked more goals than points and had an impact around the ground too.
Phillips showing some signs.
Weiters showed some attitude against one of his young rivals.
Crippa returned after an injury scare.
We might get a PP ::)
List management's got all they need to back and sack.
That's all and I've really scraped the bottom of the proverbial ;D
Go Blues
Buckley was reasonable but still error prone, Boekhorst started on Zorko on the wing and refused to pick him up.....I dont care what he did in the 2nd half which wasnt much anyway he should never have been given an extra year on his contract....
We must be close to a PP surely.
He said "the top 3 sides", not most sides. That's a huge difference. Touhey would get at game at Richmond or Collingwood. No way he'd get one at the Swans, hawthorn or geelong.
Tuohy would get a spot on any AFL list, whether he'd get a regular game at the top few sides is debatable.
I obviously rate him higher than you do but we all see different things in different players, his little cameo to set up Casboult for a goal on the 3/4 time siren was top class but needless to say the big log squandered the chance.
I'm under no illusions about the state of our list but players like Zach aren't the problem, I wish we had another half dozen as good as him.
There were positives with some players, SOS, Cunningham, and Buckley pleased me but the biggest negative is the same as other years, we are f****** lazy c**** and won't always work.
5510]
Rockcliff 39 possies......think he had 40 plus last time, we seem to be slow learners in the coaching box, not the first time Zorko has kicked our Ar$e either....
Wouldnt bother much with the last two games...rest Cripps bring in Whiley for his last game...give a few other players farewell games like Tutt, Graham, Jones...
SOSOS was my only positive today...cool under pressure and reliable in front of goal......if Ben is better than Jack then we have struck Gold..
Didnt mind young Cunningham either...still very light in the body but did put himself in and laid some tackles...
Bring on trade week and the draft, we need to hit both hard and replace the banana plantation that we have growing at Ikon park...
100% spot on.
We must be close to a PP surely.
Not even close.
Tuohy would get a spot on any AFL list, whether he'd get a regular game at the top few sides is debatable.
I obviously rate him higher than you do but we all see different things in different players, his little cameo to set up Casboult for a goal on the 3/4 time siren was top class but needless to say the big log squandered the chance.
I'm under no illusions about the state of our list but players like Zach aren't the problem, I wish we had another half dozen as good as him.
Zach I'd like to see move into the midfield. Reckon he'd really offer us something there. Boy do we need it. Anywhere where he is closer to goal has to be better. We have a few players with speed snagging a goal on the run.
At least Levi nailed 4 of them. I'll take 4.2 every week but geez, wish the misses weren't so basic. Knew he'd go alot better with another key forward to take the pressure. We score alot more generally when we have two key forwards, 95 being our 3rd highest score for the year, just a pity a dead set $hit side like Brisbane kicked 15. Grrrrr!
There were positives with some players, SOS, Cunningham, and Buckley pleased me but the biggest negative is the same as other years, we are f****** lazy c**** and won't always work.
Lack of leadership.....Cripps is already seen as our leader, the bloke who has to make it happen and lift his teammates by knocking himself out in the middle to bring everyone else into the game...its only a matter of time before he gets a big injury unless we can draft/trade in some help for him...
Not even close.
We were $hit in 2014, downright pathetic last year and now lost 9 in a row now. Have to be itching closer surely.
Zach I'd like to see move into the midfield. Reckon he'd really offer us something there. Boy do we need it. Anywhere where he is closer to goal has to be better. We have a few players with speed snagging a goal on the run.
At least Levi nailed 4 of them. I'll take 4.2 every week but geez, wish the misses weren't so basic. Knew he'd go alot better with another key forward to take the pressure. We score alot more generally when we have two key forwards, 95 being our 3rd highest score for the year, just a pity a dead set $hit side like Brisbane kicked 15. Grrrrr!
Levi did well today vs an opponent that would intimidate most of our other players....reckon he plays better with another marking target specialist forward...Jones isnt the medium/long term answer but he does try and I thought his efforts allowed Casboult to play closer to goal and play his role better...
At least Levi nailed 4 of them. I'll take 4.2 every week but geez, wish the misses weren't so basic.
That's the biggest problem with him, his foot skills let him down so often that it deflates the whole team.
I don't think Buckley will make it, he thinks he's better than he is and doesn't take the first option, and his skills are only average anyway.
He's quick and he has a crack but you can say that about plenty of players.
We've got 8 or 10 who just aren't up to it, we all know who they are but we keep hoping that they'll eventually morph into good footballers and if they have the odd better than average game we party on it for a month.
They're the joys of being a one eyed supporter I guess.
On the upside, Casboult maybe have upped his trade value from a low to a high third rounder today.
At least fat lines can be put through jones; a more bafflingly bad footy player i have not seen.
We saw buckly, kerridge, curnow, wright do their best, which isn't very good.
The reality is that we have been so bad for so long, that the rebuild process will see us recruiting players that the club knows are simply stop gaps. They are a temporary upgrade for 2 to 3 years as we build a younger core of capable players.
Well done cunningham for his first game. Much to like, and got involved.
I'm trying to look for some positives but I keep coming back to the fact that.......... it was Brisbane :(
Our well known and oft discussed shortcomings were on full display again today and I just can't be assed going through them all again. Even with both Jones and Levi we are just not good enough in the F50. We desperately need a massive talent injection, roll on draft/trade time, can't come quick enough for me!
We were $hit in 2014, downright pathetic last year and now lost 9 in a row now. Have to be itching closer surely.
Yes, we've certainly struggled for a while now.
Does it count that its self-generated?
We got knocked back for a PP last year, and Lions just got knocked back I believe.
Is there any criteria/timeline for PP at the moment? Or does the afl make it up as new situations present?
(Sorry probably wrong thread).
The reality is that we have been so bad for so long, that the rebuild process will see us recruiting players that the club knows are simply stop gaps. They are a temporary upgrade for 2 to 3 years as we build a younger core of capable players.
It's baffling why we weren't interested in Steve Johnson.
Well done cunningham for his first game. Much to like, and got involved.
Yeah, early days but there's a bit to like there.
Kerridge has been utter $h!t. so many poor decisions, painful to watch
That's the biggest problem with him, his foot skills let him down so often that it deflates the whole team.
I don't think Buckley will make it, he thinks he's better than he is and doesn't take the first option, and his skills are only average anyway.
He's quick and he has a crack but you can say that about plenty of players.
We've got 8 or 10 who just aren't up to it, we all know who they are but we keep hoping that they'll eventually morph into good footballers and if they have the odd better than average game we party on it for a month.
They're the joys of being a one eyed supporter I guess.
Buckley almost shows something. He does kick well, has speed and can break a line. Then he has other matches where he's, well, not very good. Has some tools, like to see him use them consistently week in, week out. I'd like to try another year as he does have what we need. He does tease with glimpses.
I don't think Buckley will make it, he thinks he's better than he is and doesn't take the first option, and his skills are only average anyway.
He's quick and he has a crack but you can say that about plenty of players.
Not that many of our players.
Four observations.
Encouraging debut from Cuningham, hope he holds his spot.
What a bargain Silvagni has turned out to be.
Any trade value Boekhorst might have had just evaporated.
In hindsight would have taken a second rounder for Kreuzer last year.
Buckley almost shows something. He does kick well, has speed and can break a line. Then he has other matches where he's, well, not very good. Has some tools, like to see him use them consistently week in, week out. I'd like to try another year as he does have what we need. He does tease with glimpses.
Same draft as Docherty.
He'll probably be around next year because he can play a bit and we've got blokes on our list who don't look like getting a senior game.
A scratchy win would've done and allowed us possibly a good finish remember it was two "awful" wins against Freo and Essendon that kickstarted our run. That over over an honourable 6pt loss to Sydney anyway. Wins provide belief, even crappy ones, honourable losses don't.
Levi did well today vs an opponent that would intimidate most of our other players....reckon he plays better with another marking target specialist forward...Jones isnt the medium/long term answer but he does try and I thought his efforts allowed Casboult to play closer to goal and play his role better...
Yes, way better. Last year Cassboult was one of the few things that went ok in a $hit year. Henderson, as useless as he was, took a man or two, making it alot easier for Casboult and Everitt to score. With Jones there it's not surprising Casboult and SOS (like Everitt last year) were able to impact, with less defenders around them, and hit the scoreboard. It was the same when our winning run started this year. What possessed our coaching staff to go back to a structure from the first 4 rounds, where we had just one key forward and struggled to score. They should be kicked fair and square in the @rse for that.
Do 3 goals get you a Rising Star nomination?? (Moore got one with 3 goals and 8 disposals 2 weeks ago!!!)
Do 3 goals get you a Rising Star nomination?? (Moore got one with 3 goals and 8 disposals 2 weeks ago!!!)
Good point..
Jack's forward pressure was very good too. 4 tackles.
First half was woeful. 2nd half was so much better, on their deck and in their conditions we out-ran and out-played them all over the field. Pity our decision making was ordinary and our kicking poor, as we had any number of chances to win.
There was a lot to look forward to, but our present game plan sucks: bomb it in and hope is how to be a loser, as we don't take many pack marks and don't get any crumbing goals.
Good point..
Jack's forward pressure was very good too. 4 tackles.
I hope Jack doesnt get nominated this year and gets nominated next year when he will dominate
Tuohy would get a spot on any AFL list, whether he'd get a regular game at the top few sides is debatable.
I obviously rate him higher than you do but we all see different things in different players, his little cameo to set up Casboult for a goal on the 3/4 time siren was top class but needless to say the big log squandered the chance.
I'm under no illusions about the state of our list but players like Zach aren't the problem, I wish we had another half dozen as good as him.
Absolutely, if 2E was our biggest problem we would be in good shape, and not looking to turnover possibly 8-10 players again. This talk of moving him on seems crazy , he's not perfect defensively , would like to see him tried as a mid at times just to see how he would impact.
It's baffling why we weren't interested in Steve Johnson.
How do you know we weren't?
Odds are he said no and went to GWS because they have a future whilst he's still getting a kick.
when the game is up for grabs we are 41pts down at halftime.So in the second half ONLYwhen the opp gets tired we storm home and try to pinch a win.Who are we kidding ,we cannot play 4 q simple.
Funny how in in the second half SOJ, SOS jnr, BB, Cunners start getting involved and we look so much better.
This game really underlined for me that aside from massive holes in the list at either end our midfield group is in drastic need of work. We are slow, don't run both ways, lack polish, lack body size in the middle of the ground and make terrible decisions with ball in hand. The midfield group really needs refurbishment and drastic improvement could happen really rapidly IMO with effort in this area.
Side has missed Byrne, Murph and Charlie C badly as they use the ball better, and are quicker than so many others.
A player that epitomises this group is Kerridge... love his application and size but he ain't quick and he is terrible with the ball in hand. How do you teach blokes decision making under pressure?
Funny how in in the second half SOJ, SOS jnr, BB, Cunners start getting involved and we look so much better.
This game really underlined for me that aside from massive holes in the list at either end our midfield group is in drastic need of work. We are slow, don't run both ways, lack polish, lack body size in the middle of the ground and make terrible decisions with ball in hand. The midfield group really needs refurbishment and drastic improvement could happen really rapidly IMO with effort in this area.
Side has missed Byrne, Murph and Charlie C badly as they use the ball better, and are quicker than so many others.
A player that epitomises this group is Kerridge... love his application and size but he ain't quick and he is terrible with the ball in hand. How do you teach blokes decision making under pressure?
Couldn't agree more Prof. This IMO is by far and away our greatest priority even though our forward set-up also needs significant improvement too.
Funny how in in the second half SOJ, SOS jnr, BB, Cunners start getting involved and we look so much better.
This game really underlined for me that aside from massive holes in the list at either end our midfield group is in drastic need of work. We are slow, don't run both ways, lack polish, lack body size in the middle of the ground and make terrible decisions with ball in hand. The midfield group really needs refurbishment and drastic improvement could happen really rapidly IMO with effort in this area.
Side has missed Byrne, Murph and Charlie C badly as they use the ball better, and are quicker than so many others.
A player that epitomises this group is Kerridge... love his application and size but he ain't quick and he is terrible with the ball in hand. How do you teach blokes decision making under pressure?
re: Kerridge....handy player but was surplus behind Dangerfield, Sloane, Thompson, Crouch bros....we will be a good team when players like Kerridge are playing mainly in the NB's
and are only backup for injuries just like he was at the Crows...
Agree on Byrne, Charlie C and the skipper......badly missed......Byrne and Charlie Curnow are probably our two most exciting players but like with most players who have some X factoor they seem to get injured more..
We still need more midfield depth.
C Curnow, murphy and Byrne are no where near the swans mids.
Kennedy, Parker and Hannerbery are elite.
We really need 2 AA mids for the next 8 years to play with cripps.
We also need to decide whether Casboult is worth $500k a year that he is asking for
We also need to decide whether Casboult is worth $500k a year that he is asking for
Such a conundrum when you see him kick and mark like yesterday. His best is very very good.
Such a conundrum when you see him kick and mark like yesterday. His best is very very good.
True but he has so far lacked consistency. Unless that can be fixed then ???? If we could find another good reliable KPF to complement Levi then the problem may be resolved. Jones yesterday, despite his best efforts, showed (to me at least) that he is not the one we need but could possibly be OK as a depth/NBs player.
Such a conundrum when you see him kick and mark like yesterday. His best is very very good.
No conundrum for me. He upped his value a little on the trade table. He is a liability most of the time as he doesn't work hard enough, failing to get seperation from his opponent. His kicking is horrific. A highlights reel of contested marks is great, but at his age, he is unlikely to improve.
Could imagine a few teams willing to look at him.
The only issue is that perhaps being on the list another year may act as a bridge season so curnow and mckay can develop. But when casboult has only managed a goal a game as it is this year, his absense may not present as much of a problem.
Funny how in in the second half SOJ, SOS jnr, BB, Cunners start getting involved and we look so much better.
This game really underlined for me that aside from massive holes in the list at either end our midfield group is in drastic need of work. We are slow, don't run both ways, lack polish, lack body size in the middle of the ground and make terrible decisions with ball in hand. The midfield group really needs refurbishment and drastic improvement could happen really rapidly IMO with effort in this area.
Side has missed Byrne, Murph and Charlie C badly as they use the ball better, and are quicker than so many others.
A player that epitomises this group is Kerridge... love his application and size but he ain't quick and he is terrible with the ball in hand. How do you teach blokes decision making under pressure?
It really was a game of two halves. I noted that Boekhorst (1 disposal), Plowman (2), Phillips (2), Cuningham (3), Silvagni (4) and Wright (4) had minimal impact in the first half but, with the exception of Phillips, all stepped up in the second. Having half the side not contributing puts far too much pressure on our better players.
If there's a positive from the game it is that we didn't fold when we were seven goals down but increased our effort and almost got the win. That doesn't make the loss anywhere near acceptable but, as Bolton would say, the green shoots are there.
The result should put paid to any thoughts of a priority pick for Brisbane. They have plenty of talent on their list for a competent coach to work with.
We still need more midfield depth.
C Curnow, murphy and Byrne are no where near the swans mids.
Kennedy, Parker and Hannerbery are elite.
We really need 2 AA mids for the next 8 years to play with cripps.
We also need to decide whether Casboult is worth $500k a year that he is asking for
Good try by Levi. 500k, no a chance. He wouldn't get that anywhere. Give him his due, he's done well given he's come way off the rookie list and played in the right role he'll do a good but he's 300k at best, 350k if you really stretched it as a key forward. 300k for me though, certainly not 500k.
No conundrum for me. He upped his value a little on the trade table. He is a liability most of the time as he doesn't work hard enough, failing to get seperation from his opponent. His kicking is horrific. A highlights reel of contested marks is great, but at his age, he is unlikely to improve.
Could imagine a few teams willing to look at him.
The only issue is that perhaps being on the list another year may act as a bridge season so curnow and mckay can develop. But when casboult has only managed a goal a game as it is this year, his absense may not present as much of a problem.
He won't be getting trade unless he chooses to go. Carlton rate him and in the short term, need him. I'm not interested what they average. You can contribute without necessarily scoring. You notice we scored alot more this year when we've had two key forwards playing.
His absence, until the others develop, would be a problem. Problem is we went in alot this year with a structure of one key forward, making life tough for him, not his fault, it's the clubs. Especially after that injury. We've struggled to score. Those that don't understand that blame the player. Imagine if we trade him and have no real key forwards. Notice when he gets help he's alot better? Last year showed that, he was one of the few things to work, yesterday showed it again.
I believe your right, Laj , the twin key forwards has been more successful. So why would Match committee /coach continue with the single key forward option? I mean, ok jones , Everitt Would be the obviously us choices, but they have gone other ways. Sure they see better than we do , so interesting to hear if any one has any inside thoughts on this?
A problem that Levi creates, is that we really labour to get goal kicking opportunities , and when he regularly fluffs them, it must deflate the team moral in general.
With the extra season Charlie & Harry will have under there belt, let's hope they can add to the attack next year to create the twin attack option.
I believe your right, Laj , the twin key forwards has been more successful. So why would Match committee /coach continue with the single key forward option? I mean, ok jones , Everitt Would be the obviously us choices, but they have gone other ways. Sure they see better than we do , so interesting to hear if any one has any inside thoughts on this?
A problem that Levi creates, is that we really labour to get goal kicking opportunities , and when he regularly fluffs them, it must deflate the team moral in general.
With the extra season Charlie & Harry will have under there belt, let's hope they can add to the attack next year to create the twin attack option.
That would be same at Collingwood with Cloke, and even Richmond with Richo. Both a bit better than Levi admittedly.
Anyway, with twin forwards, it spreads the defence more opening it up for others to kick goals. Even if the likes of Jones has a bad day he still takes a man or two, meaning less defenders for Levi and a weaker defender for Everitt and SOS, as the scoreboard attests. We score more easily hence kick alot higher scores, hence the odd miss doesn't deflate as you feel there's another chance around the corner. When struggling to kick 6-8 goals a game, when we had one key forward then those misses hurt.
Good try by Levi. 500k, no a chance. He wouldn't get that anywhere. Give him his due, he's done well given he's come way off the rookie list and played in the right role he'll do a good but he's 300k at best, 350k if you really stretched it as a key forward. 300k for me though, certainly not 500k.
The average wage in 2016 is just over $300K and the annual increase is usually just over 5% so we're looking at an average of around $310-315K in 2017. As we know only too well, key forwards don't grow on trees and that would push Levi's worth up to well above average.
Levi may not get $500K but I suspect his pay packet will be well above $350K.
The average wage in 2016 is just over $300K and the annual increase is usually just over 5% so we're looking at an average of around $310-315K in 2017. As we know only too well, key forwards don't grow on trees and that would push Levi's worth up to well above average.
Levi may not get $500K but I suspect his pay packet will be well above $350K.
Yes, put like that, probably right.
The average wage in 2016 is just over $300K and the annual increase is usually just over 5% so we're looking at an average of around $310-315K in 2017. As we know only too well, key forwards don't grow on trees and that would push Levi's worth up to well above average.
Levi may not get $500K but I suspect his pay packet will be well above $350K.
The average wage in 2015 was about $302K, 2016 is expected to be about $320K and 2017 will be in the $330k range.
He won't be getting trade unless he chooses to go. Carlton rate him and in the short term, need him. I'm not interested what they average. You can contribute without necessarily scoring. You notice we scored alot more this year when we've had two key forwards playing.
His absence, until the others develop, would be a problem. Problem is we went in alot this year with a structure of one key forward, making life tough for him, not his fault, it's the clubs. Especially after that injury. We've struggled to score. Those that don't understand that blame the player. Imagine if we trade him and have no real key forwards. Notice when he gets help he's alot better? Last year showed that, he was one of the few things to work, yesterday showed it again.
Two key forwards would be grand indeed. Two good ones that is. Casboult is not good enough. He might take a great grab and lead up the wings. League footy is not played like that anymore. Key forwards, if the term has any meaning anymore, must be mobile, double back and work into space to offer marking and scoring opportunities. They need to run more than they ever have.
That is why we play 2 rucks, offering the potential for mobile marking options across the ground. The fixation with a 2 forward, 1 ruck as a style of play that is the answer is past. Apart from a couple of rucks in goldstein and gawn who have shown they can ruck most of a game, one ruck with a part time forward ruck is rarely effective in building the style that bolton wants. Even goldstein is looking tired later in the season. Our number one ruck in Kruezer is almost busted.
So yes, we do need two forwards. We need more than two of them. Good ones that can play as modern league forwards need to to create scoring opportunities. Mobility, pressure and second efforts are more important now than height or contested marking prowess. And accurate kicking helps too. We didn't have two good forwards playing yesterday. Adelaide may approximate the two key forward style that is so often being discussed. But walker and jenkins play in a fashion that casboult is not able to deliver.
Sivagni, despite his youth, played in a way yesterday that is more promising for the future than the traditional key forward lead up marking type.
If we could trade casboult for a low third rounder we should jump at it. Maybe richmond will trade their second round pick to us.
I think Casboult is a good option as the 2nd marking target, he's no good when he has the main marking role.
McKay and C.Curnow will be the key to Casboult's retention and success. If they can hold a spot in the 1s Casboult will be a difficult match for anybody.
No conundrum for me. He upped his value a little on the trade table. He is a liability most of the time as he doesn't work hard enough, failing to get seperation from his opponent. His kicking is horrific. A highlights reel of contested marks is great, but at his age, he is unlikely to improve.
Could imagine a few teams willing to look at him.
The only issue is that perhaps being on the list another year may act as a bridge season so curnow and mckay can develop. But when casboult has only managed a goal a game as it is this year, his absense may not present as much of a problem.
So we trade him away for two tenths of feck all and the team he goes to turns him into a goal kicking machine, that wont hurt a bit.
Two key forwards would be grand indeed. Two good ones that is. Casboult is not good enough. He might take a great grab and lead up the wings. League footy is not played like that anymore. Key forwards, if the term has any meaning anymore, must be mobile, double back and work into space to offer marking and scoring opportunities. They need to run more than they ever have.
That is why we play 2 rucks, offering the potential for mobile marking options across the ground. The fixation with a 2 forward, 1 ruck as a style of play that is the answer is past. Apart from a couple of rucks in goldstein and gawn who have shown they can ruck most of a game, one ruck with a part time forward ruck is rarely effective in building the style that bolton wants. Even goldstein is looking tired later in the season. Our number one ruck in Kruezer is almost busted.
So yes, we do need two forwards. We need more than two of them. Good ones that can play as modern league forwards need to to create scoring opportunities. Mobility, pressure and second efforts are more important now than height or contested marking prowess. And accurate kicking helps too. We didn't have two good forwards playing yesterday. Adelaide may approximate the two key forward style that is so often being discussed. But walker and jenkins play in a fashion that casboult is not able to deliver.
Sivagni, despite his youth, played in a way yesterday that is more promising for the future than the traditional key forward lead up marking type.
If we could trade casboult for a low third rounder we should jump at it. Maybe richmond will trade their second round pick to us.
Forwards get up to the wing often all the time.
I think Casboult might be good enough, at least in his own right. Certainly not Buddy or Kennedy but does the job. If anyone thought he could hold the whole forward line up in a crap side as the only key forward and play well needs to understand the game better. Last year we were headed for a higher 2nd rounder but decided to keep him. There was real interest. Carlton rate him, opposition, more importantly, certainly rate and respect him, I think that's what you go by, not by supporter opinion. If you think we should jump at a low 3rd rounder you're a definitely kidding yourself. Club would be smashed again for bad trading taking "unders". How many more players would you like to see play well at other clubs that we give away for bugger all.
SOS is a 3rd tall. Can't rely on a 3rd tall to take the main goal kicking role. Defenders will smash him as he'll take the no. 1 defender. If you know you're footy you'll understand that. We've rarely had big scoring key forwards, even in our great days, Fev excepted, but doesn't mean they can't play well and other forwards feed off it. Last year, Casboult averaged 1.5 a game playing half the year as a permanent 2nd ruck. They average was higher when he played the combined key forward/ruck role in the second half of his year. We had a 2nd key forward and while Henderson was terrible and disinterested no defence could take their eye off him for a second. Meant he took a man or two, freeing up Casboult and Everitt to score, the latter scoring 31 goals. In an awful year those two had good years and hit the scoreboard. Soon as we had a second key forward yesterday Casboult scored 4.2, which really should've been 6. Last time he was allowed to play the forward/ruck role, Collingwood game, he took 11 marks, 7 contested, kicked 3.1. Notably too this year, when we've had two key forward we have scored alot higher as it opens it up for others to score. Everitt hit the scoreboard too. Moral of the story, pick the right structured side and play players to their strengths. Let him go and watch how you miss him. He is needed while our young key forwards develop to take the physical heat. McKay will play games next year so Casboult will definitely be needed to take the physical heat of the defence, or would you like our kids to take that on their own. I'm sure you understand that. Once they develop then we can phase Casboult out, but not before.
I think Casboult is a good option as the 2nd marking target, he's no good when he has the main marking role.
McKay and C.Curnow will be the key to Casboult's retention and success. If they can hold a spot in the 1s Casboult will be a difficult match for anybody.
We often dispute alot on Levi but we agree here. He often did well when he was 2nd marking target to Waite and Henderson. At worst we have to have two key forwards as he's not that good that he can hold a forward line up on his own. Levi will be great the heat while McKay develops then as he does, Casboult become the 2nd key target making him more dangerous.
I think Casboult is a good option as the 2nd marking target, he's no good when he has the main marking role.
McKay and C.Curnow will be the key to Casboult's retention and success. If they can hold a spot in the 1s Casboult will be a difficult match for anybody.
We need a specialist Full Forward who is a straight kick and leads for the ball....Casboult becomes the second option as does the long bomb to a pack and if the ball is bombed more than often it will be the Boult vs his man only rather than every defender hanging off him....the Boult would have enjoyed working with Fev at his peak.
We need a specialist Full Forward who is a straight kick and leads for the ball....Casboult becomes the second option as does the long bomb to a pack and if the ball is bombed more than often it will be the Boult vs his man only rather than every defender hanging off him....the Boult would have enjoyed working with Fev at his peak.
Yep, Fev leading inside F50 and around the arc with Levi more playing further out or moving into space created by Fevs leads, giving a different option. All we need to do is find that good leading KPF!
Such a conundrum when you see him kick and mark like yesterday. His best is very very good.
Let's not forget we were playing a team beaten by 140 points the week before with a percentage of 60 after 21 rounds.
Casboult is 26, has 70 games under his belt and averages under a goal and less than 10 possessions per game.
It would be different if he was a young kid on the way up but his numbers this season are near enough to or just under his career averages, what you see with Levi is what you get.
Why haven't Jaksch or Foster been played as specialist FF playing from the square? Foster kicked 50+ in his last U18 year playing as a lead up FF, he can certainly play the role.
Uncanny how many times I go to say something on here only to find that Jim has beaten me to it. :)
Let's not forget we were playing a team beaten by 140 points the week before with a percentage of 60 after 21 rounds.
Casboult is 26, has 70 games under his belt and averages under a goal and less than 10 possessions per game.
It would be different if he was a young kid on the way up but his numbers this season are near enough to or just under his career averages, what you see with Levi is what you get.
If that's the situation then the question becomes "is Casboult worth more to us as a part of our team, or is he worth more to us as a trade option. I see him as a player who actually has a bit of trade value, certainly more than many on the list who are sometimes suggested as good trade options.
To get something of value you have to give up something of value.When McKay, Curnow, Silvagni and maybe a player like young Ben Silvagni are our forward line will there be a place for a player who takes a good mark but is only a 50/50 proposition as a goalkicker?
A player like Casboult may have enough value for another team who are prepared to pay a good price. But we won't know that until negotiations start. If we get a good offer we should definitely consider it because we know what we've got with Casboult and there isn't much more to learn.
To get something of value you have to give up something of value.
1. Don't agree with that at all, if a club sees a need for a Casboult type they'll pay and we won't have to give up squat! It's not a swap meet, I don't want us doing any more Hampson type deals. Sellers have control, not buyers.
When McKay, Curnow, Silvagni and maybe a player like young Ben Silvagni are our forward line will there be a place for a player who takes a good mark but is only a 50/50 proposition as a goalkicker?
2. It's a good point, but Casboult is here now and Ben Silvagni is a mirage on the horizon!
A player like Casboult may have enough value for another team who are prepared to pay a good price. But we won't know that until negotiations start. If we get a good offer we should definitely consider it because we know what we've got with Casboult and there isn't much more to learn.
3. See point 1, and I think Cloke coming on the market has significantly de-valued Casboult this trade period. Plus Cloke coming on the market has made it harder for Casboult to demand a high price. You would think a club "In the hunt at this moment" would opt for the 29 year old Cloke versus the 26 year old Casboult.
Let's not forget we were playing a team beaten by 140 points the week before with a percentage of 60 after 21 rounds.
Casboult is 26, has 70 games under his belt and averages under a goal and less than 10 possessions per game.
It would be different if he was a young kid on the way up but his numbers this season are near enough to or just under his career averages, what you see with Levi is what you get.
We've never had key forwards with huge totals bar Fev and before that Sticks and Jezza. Never stopped them playing decent footy though. He's decent enough and we need him for a couple more years yet. We've lost all our other one's. Our coaching staff and importantly other clubs certainly rate him. His marking average is up there with most of the best. He was kicking goals yesterday when the rest of the side wasn't. Actually career averages exactly one goal a game. Given he's spent alot of his time here as our 2nd ruck that's acceptable. Averaged 1.5 last year. Wallsy and Maclure were guns and only 1.7 and 1.5.
If that's the situation then the question becomes "is Casboult worth more to us as a part of our team, or is he worth more to us as a trade option. I see him as a player who actually has a bit of trade value, certainly more than many on the list who are sometimes suggested as good trade options.
To get something of value you have to give up something of value.When McKay, Curnow, Silvagni and maybe a player like young Ben Silvagni are our forward line will there be a place for a player who takes a good mark but is only a 50/50 proposition as a goalkicker?
A player like Casboult may have enough value for another team who are prepared to pay a good price. But we won't know that until negotiations start. If we get a good offer we should definitely consider it because we know what we've got with Casboult and there isn't much more to learn.
Worth more to us unless you want to see Harry McKay get smashed around as he tries to develop. Levi needs to be the one to take that heat in thee shorter term. Think that answer that question. Won't be traded unless he chooses to go.
Early in the season we were getting a lot of value from our 2nd string players. Now they are really struggling.
Kerridge looks tired and isn't at his best. Nor has this tiredness helped his decision making.
Wright was good for a long time, but he has also run out of juice and no longer goes under the radar.
Sumner ran out of gas some weeks back and now has been dropped.
Lamb has been similar: he was producing 20 possessions a game around the time of the bye.
Armfield has gone off the boil, although a lot more recently. He was excellent a few weeks back.
These guys were the difference between victory and defeat earlier in the year.
Casboult had a good one, but that hasn't happened much this year.
Liam Jones was OK, but not brilliant.
Silvagni has shown something, but hasn't really got heaps of the ball yet.
Some of their issues come from our appalling forward football. Kicking the ball long for pack marks that don't happen, or looking from crumbs which we don't get, appears a very poor way of getting the ball forward. Have our mids and defenders ever heard of lowering the eyes and looking for a leading forward?
If that's the situation then the question becomes "is Casboult worth more to us as a part of our team, or is he worth more to us as a trade option. I see him as a player who actually has a bit of trade value, certainly more than many on the list who are sometimes suggested as good trade options.
To get something of value you have to give up something of value.When McKay, Curnow, Silvagni and maybe a player like young Ben Silvagni are our forward line will there be a place for a player who takes a good mark but is only a 50/50 proposition as a goalkicker?
A player like Casboult may have enough value for another team who are prepared to pay a good price. But we won't know that until negotiations start. If we get a good offer we should definitely consider it because we know what we've got with Casboult and there isn't much more to learn.
I reckon Cripps has more chance of playing as a key forward than Charlie Curnow and Silvagni do. The latter two should be important parts of our forward line but we still need at least two key forwards and a back up or two.
If Ben Silvagni continues to progress and is drafted in 2018, he may or may not make his debut in 2019. Until then, we have McKay, with potential but doubts about his durability, and Jones, Foster and Jaksch not showing much at all. Then we have Casboult averaging a goal a game, rated 6th in the competition for contested marks and with the size, attitude and actions to intimidate opponents. We also know that there is limited key position talent in the coming draft. Trading Casboult might get us another swag of GWS rejects or another midfielder from an early draft pick, but we're not going to get another key forward for Casboult.
I would be signing Casboult to a three year deal.
I'm not downplaying his value in fact I'm saying he's a player that has value and one other clubs would look at.
We're not going to get anything putting a Jones up for trade and too often that's the type of player that's suggested.
We also need to look at the deals and make sure what we're offered is better than what we're giving away. If the price is right do the deal. If we have, as is suggested, some Key Position targets lined up then Casboult may be surplus to our needs. We wont need him to look after the young ones, but he may be a player another club could use.
Supporters often overvalue their own players but Casboult is the type of player that the opposition might look at and think "Great mark, Strong presence, we can fix that kicking." He has value, can we use that to our advantage. You don't shut the door on that without seeing what's offered, especially if he's asking for solid cash.
Dylan Buckley really building form the last month , ran hard the whole game ,a high 509 meters gained for him and 8 score involvements and 7 pressure acts .
Like what he has done for the last few weeks.
I'm not downplaying his value in fact I'm saying he's a player that has value and one other clubs would look at.
We're not going to get anything putting a Jones up for trade and too often that's the type of player that's suggested.
We also need to look at the deals and make sure what we're offered is better than what we're giving away. If the price is right do the deal. If we have, as is suggested, some Key Position targets lined up then Casboult may be surplus to our needs. We wont need him to look after the young ones, but he may be a player another club could use.
Supporters often overvalue their own players but Casboult is the type of player that the opposition might look at and think "Great mark, Strong presence, we can fix that kicking." He has value, can we use that to our advantage. You don't shut the door on that without seeing what's offered, especially if he's asking for solid cash.
He's not surplus to our needs. If he's great mark, strong presence then given our other options we keep him. Anyone who knows anything about the game knows you don't put young kids in key positions as our no.1, unless you don't want them to develop. We might get a draft pick, but we might screw the development of a potential young gun key forward. We need to use our brains here. Not as if we still have Waite and Henderson.
1. Don't agree with that at all, if a club sees a need for a Casboult type they'll pay and we won't have to give up squat! It's not a swap meet, I don't want us doing any more Hampson type deals. Sellers have control, not buyers.
I'd like to do another dozen Hampson type deals, we effectively swapped him for Docherty.
A trade like that happens once in a lifetime.
I would be signing Casboult to a three year deal.
There's no need.
Despite what rabid Carlton supporters think of him his trade value is minimal, I agree with Laj that we need him at this stage but that's because we have the weakest front half in the AFL and only unproven kids to take his place.
We'll probably need to hang onto him for two years but if he's still getting a game in 2019 we're going nowhere.
I think Casboult is a good option as the 2nd marking target, he's no good when he has the main marking role.
McKay and C.Curnow will be the key to Casboult's retention and success. If they can hold a spot in the 1s Casboult will be a difficult match for anybody.
Casboult is sixth in the comp for contested marks and he's been our only marking target for most of the season.
Rather than having a first or second marking target, we need several strong contested marks, players who can mark on the lead, players who know how to lead and players who can get behind their defenders. We seem to have three in Casboult, Charlie Curnow and SOJ, and McKay could make the fourth. Add a top class small forward to the mix, and midfielders who can hit targets, and we'd have a decent forward line.
Agree on re-signing Casboult...worth more to us than on the open market and everyone on this forum knows he plays better and is more effective with another KP forward taking some heat off him...even an average one like Liam Jones... why he hasnt been playing remains a mystery to me...he does try, and both him and the Boult seem to work together ok..if Jones had kicked straight vs the Lion we might have won...
3 year deal seems reasonable given the market and the lack of forwards.....I'd be after Stewart from GWS but more to replace Jones ....
Dylan Buckley really building form the last month , ran hard the whole game ,a high 509 meters gained for him and 8 score involvements and 7 pressure acts .
Like what he has done for the last few weeks.
Agree Jim, just needs to polish up the finishing.
Do not care one iota about our 2nd half, our I50's or our missed opportunities......fact is, Brisbane should never have been in a position to win this game EVER based on the year they've been having. There are no excuses, it was an utter disgrace.
Said in the post-game thread last week that if we dished that up again, I'd give Brisbane half a chance.....and look what they did!? FMD.......
Rockliff has enjoyed feasting out on a total of 83....that's right - 83 possessions against us this year. Any danger of us putting any sort of work into him??? FMD......
I've got absolutely no doubts whatsoever Essendon will be celebrating hard in 2 weeks time with their 3rd win of the season.
un-fcuking-believable how badly this season has turned into utter shhit.....
Jesus-F-Christ.......
Got to watch the game at the Gabba, god we were appalling in the first half. Someone on this site keeps saying Carlton should be playing with two key forwards, I think we should try this because we certainly didn't have two key forwards on Saturday. Our kicking is dreadful. I am not sure whether our field kicking is worse or our goal kicking is worse. Silvagni is our second best forward, C Curnow is our best. It is a worry our two best forwards are first year players. Buckley needs to improve his decision making. He should have kicked a goal in the last and he should have set up Phillips in the third when we he was clear. Kerridge would be a great player if he could kick. Jones doesn't have the mental strength to be an AFL player. That goal he missed in the second quarter was pathetic. I was right behind him and he never looked like it. It was lucky to hit the post, and to kick the ball into the man on the mark a minute later compounded the folly. Thomas is cooked. Let him get to 200 games and then that will be it. He tries hard, he puts his body on the line, his brain is operating, but he just can't get to the contest. Once again he never looked like kicking that goal in the last quarter. Cunningham looked ok but need to see more of him. We are at least one quality mid-fielder short. We need Murphy back and we need one more. This would allow Curnow, Graham and Kerridge to bat down the order more. Our disposal out of the back line is hopeless. I am really running out of adjectives. Simpso Docherty and Touhy can all kick, but the continually miss their targets. I would hate to be a forward. You could see at the end of this match that this loss really hurt. Maybe if they had turned up to play in the first half, then this would not have been a loss. There are some really good opportunities for the future but bthere are going to be some dark days.
Do not care one iota about our 2nd half, our I50's or our missed opportunities......fact is, Brisbane should never have been in a position to win this game EVER based on the year they've been having. There are no excuses, it was an utter disgrace.
Said in the post-game thread last week that if we dished that up again, I'd give Brisbane half a chance.....and look what they did!? FMD.......
Rockliff has enjoyed feasting out on a total of 83....that's right - 83 possessions against us this year. Any danger of us putting any sort of work into him??? FMD......
I've got absolutely no doubts whatsoever Essendon will be celebrating hard in 2 weeks time with their 3rd win of the season.
un-fcuking-believable how badly this season has turned into utter shhit.....
Jesus-F-Christ.......
Tend to agree, we really struggle with matchups and some of our forward scouting of other teams is also poor...Rockcliff has the reputation of not hurting you with his possies but that doesnt mean you can just allow him to get the ball 40 times a game either....
I think we thought Brisbane are so crape we were going to roll straight over them......IMO Brisbane put way more work and planning into us than we did into them...Docherty and Simpson were manned up and we lost our run from half back and we struggled to adjust...Bolton has been outcoached in several games and I think we need to remember he is still a novice match day coach and learning the job..regardless of how successful Hawthorn were its different when you have make the final decisions and steer the ship yourself and you dont have a champion playing list to play with...
......fact is, Brisbane should never have been in a position to win this game EVER based on the year they've been having. There are no excuses, it was an utter disgrace.
And there you have it. Exactly.
@EB1
OK he's been coaching us for a season now, but I think BB may possibly still take a few things for granted that would happen automatically with a champion team and mature on-field leadership. He's still adjusting in some ways to us being such a crape team. He must be really aware by now though what a crape load of work is ahead of him and SoS to turn this around.
We do however have some good youngsters starting to come through in particular Weitering, Cripps and Jack who will form the basis of our future. As I've posted before, roll on the trade and draft periods! - we don't want to leave these guys hanging in the wind for too long.
...Bolton has been outcoached in several games and I think we need to remember he is still a novice match day coach and learning the job..regardless of how successful Hawthorn were its different when you have make the final decisions and steer the ship yourself and you dont have a champion playing list to play with...
Bolton is in no different situation now than Ratten was, he needs three or four years to determine if he can cut it. I think his biggest problem is going to be what he does with assistants. The game is too much these days for one person to manage, go as Malthouse!
I didn't think that Bolton was out coached; our players simply didn't give the effort required. That provided a view of another side of Bolton; the angry side that left players in no doubt that they needed to put in.
Once the effort was there, Bolton's coaching shone through and Leppitsch had no answers.
It seemed to me that our players thought that they had the game sewn up after the first two easy goals and I guess that is down to Bolton, the line coaches and the leaders.
Bolton is in no different situation now than Ratten was, he needs three or four years to determine if he can cut it. I think his biggest problem is going to be what he does with assistants. The game is too much these days for one person to manage, go as Malthouse!
LP...Fair point on the assistants..a few people have attributed Freo's fall from grace on Ross Lyons assistants and Lyon himself not wanting to delegate and trust them with decision making...
I have problem with Neil Craig being in the box and I have doubts on his abilities to provide Bolton with any substantial advice given he is the next senior member of the coaching team...
Had to laugh when I heard he had been working with Kristian Jaksch, as I have said previously that told me plenty about Jaksch's indifferent form...you look at Chris Judd who has been mentoring
Zac Merrett....Judd's a winner..I'll let you draw your own conclusions on Craigs career...
@EB1
I'm no particular fan of Craig EB, but seriously, could anyone mentor KJ? He wasn't exactly setting the world on fire before Craig arrived and as I've said before, SoS would know plenty about him from his GWS days.
I guess the secret of being a good mentor is to carefully choose who you are going to mentor. Juddy's no mug! Merrett is an excellent talent.
@EB1
I'm no particular fan of Craig EB, but seriously, could anyone mentor KJ? He wasn't exactly setting the world on fire before Craig arrived and as I've said before, SoS would know plenty about him from his GWS days.
I guess the secret of being a good mentor is to carefully choose who you are going to mentor. Juddy's no mug! Merrett is an excellent talent.
Was thinking much the same. You look like a good tutor by hand picking good students.
Would Judd do any better with KJ ?
Was thinking much the same. You look like a good tutor by hand picking good students.
Would Judd do any better with KJ ?
Craig couldnt make a footballer out of Taylpr Walker from the Crows either, well actually he unmade a footballer out of a very talented player...decided he needed remedial work in the SANFL......for a season....?? :o
I watched Jaksch tear Lachie Henderson a new one when he played CHB for GWS so I know he can play.....I'd fly Glen Jakovich over every week to work with KJ
and let Craig stick to organising the gatorade's or something simple...
@EB1
I'm no particular fan of Craig EB, but seriously, could anyone mentor KJ? He wasn't exactly setting the world on fire before Craig arrived and as I've said before, SoS would know plenty about him from his GWS days.
I guess the secret of being a good mentor is to carefully choose who you are going to mentor. Juddy's no mug! Merrett is an excellent talent.
He was 19 when he arrived at Carlton though. Don't know much about this year as he's performed well in the VFL, kicked goals and played well in defence, so certainly not struggling, but barely played in the seniors. Can't really judged him until we see an extended run in the seniors.
Craig couldnt make a footballer out of Taylpr Walker from the Crows either, well actually he unmade a footballer out of a very talented player...decided he needed remedial work in the SANFL......for a season....?? :o
I watched Jaksch tear Lachie Henderson a new one when he played CHB for GWS so I know he can play.....I'd fly Glen Jakovich over every week to work with KJ
and let Craig stick to organising the gatorade's or something simple...
Does that say more about Jaksch or Hendo, in hindsight......? :(
I hold no hope for Jaksch, people wail on Jones and rightly so, if they go to the VFL and watch Jaksch they will see four quarters of a poor mans Jones! I hope he proves me wrong!
http://www.carltonfc.com.au/news/2016-08-15/top-5-stats-round-21
One interesting one from this weeks best was this one
David Cuningham
Team-high 22 pressure acts
Debutant David Cuningham may have only had seven disposals, but impressed with what he did without the footy. The 19-year-old set the standard in the pressure stakes, recording eight tackles and a team-high 22 pressure acts.
One interesting one from this weeks best was this one
I thought the kid did OK in a first day out.
Especially given the Lions midfield was Zorko, Rockliff and Robinson it's not like he was up against light bodies around stoppages and he never took a backwards step!
He was 19 when he arrived at Carlton though. Don't know much about this year as he's performed well in the VFL, kicked goals and played well in defence, so certainly not struggling, but barely played in the seniors. Can't really judged him until we see an extended run in the seniors.
The big question though Jim is will he ever get an extended run in the seniors? - he certainly doesn't look like it atm. I expected a much greater impact by him this year tbh and blaming Craig for that is drawing on the long bow IMO.
I thought the kid did OK in a first day out.
Especially given the Lions midfield was Zorko, Rockliff and Robinson it's not like he was up against light bodies around stoppages and he never took a backwards step!
I noticed him more as the game went on and began to feel positive about him. Hopefully he will play against the Dees.
The big question though Jim is will he ever get an extended run in the seniors? - he certainly doesn't look like it atm. I expected a much greater impact by him this year tbh and blaming Craig for that is drawing on the long bow IMO.
They didn't give him a run despite good VFL form. Can only perform who he's thrown against and did that well. They gave him one week in the seniors and told him to hold up the entire forward line as our only key forward. Would do his confidence no end of good...not! Not sure what out staff were thinking. Bet he was relieved to go to defence during the 3rd qtr where he was much better. Then they drop him a week later. Team selection certainly wasn't a strength this year.
They didn't give him a run despite good VFL form.
Interested to hear from others who have witnessed KJ first hand with the NBs because I can't recall a heap of 'good form'. I can recall seeing plenty single efforts with no follow up, the occasional 'Joe the Goose' a couple of uncontested marks when shifted down back to play the intercept roll and one or two long bombs. But not many 'good games'. Stats sheets don't always tell the true story.
I thought the kid did OK in a first day out.
Especially given the Lions midfield was Zorko, Rockliff and Robinson it's not like he was up against light bodies around stoppages and he never took a backwards step!
Agree. Was glad to see him play a disciplined game and be strong at the contest. Instilling good habits from the get-go. Hopefully he remains in the seniors for the remainder of the season ...and McKay gets a game too.
The big question though Jim is will he ever get an extended run in the seniors? - he certainly doesn't look like it atm. I expected a much greater impact by him this year tbh and blaming Craig for that is drawing on the long bow IMO.
I really did hope KJ would progress. But he really hasn't for whatever reason.
He had a chance with that senior game and I know some believe he should have been given more games to prove himself but in that one game he stood out as not having a clue. BB comes from a place where blokes who come into the side, regardless, just seem to slot straight into doing what is expected... KJ didn't. Although he was dropped after one game, and this may have seemed ruthless, isn't that what we want? Ruthlessness. Do your job or FO.
Agree on re-signing Casboult...worth more to us than on the open market and everyone on this forum knows he plays better and is more effective with another KP forward taking some heat off him...even an average one like Liam Jones... why he hasnt been playing remains a mystery to me...he does try, and both him and the Boult seem to work together ok..if Jones had kicked straight vs the Lion we might have won...
3 year deal seems reasonable given the market and the lack of forwards.....I'd be after Stewart from GWS but more to replace Jones ....
I might be wrong but think this is the first time I've seen someone mention Stewart from GWS. If he doesn't come up on the radar for SOS I'd be amazed. Can mark and kick. Can't get a game currently. Wouldn't cost overs. Ticks many boxes for mine.
IF IF IF we decide to keep Casboult, then I'd be chasing hard for Adam Tomlinson and James Stewart from GWS plus another goal kicking small-medium forward.
Delist Liam Jones then. Not sure we'd get anything for Kristian Jaskch. Would keep him and play him CHB at VFL, then in key defence when playing AFL.
We need more mids - that's a given.
Would love another ruck on the list - delist Gorringe and Wood.
Would love Sam Naismith from the Swans.
Otherwise, there's his Swans teammate in Toby Nankervis, who I rated strongly in his draft year.
Or Tom Downie from the Giants, or Zac Clarke from Freo. Maybe there's a state league player we could snaffle either late in the National Draft or in the Rookie Draft.
A cheaper get and backup to Phillips and Kreuzer might be unrestricted free agent Jake Spencer from Melbourne. He's a massive unit and might provide valuable support on little $$.
The pure silk and class from the Giants players, that have been mentioned on here and pretty much everywhere, are Caleb Marchbank and Will Hoskin-Elliott. They are young guns.
Jayden Laverde from Essendon would be a handy get also.
There's lots of good ones out there but we don't have much wriggle room unless we decide to part ways with one or two more 'trade worthy' players - which would be the unpopular view for many on here.
Otherwise, attempting to snaffle a few GWS players, plus keeping our first rounder and snaring another first rounder, would be a decent scenario.
Pratty,
If we chase Laverde after overlooking him to draft Boekhorst the natives will head down to Ikon Park with enough blazing torches to be seen from outer space.
Pratty,
If we chase Laverde after overlooking him to draft Boekhorst the natives will head down to Ikon Park with enough blazing torches to be seen from outer space.
Fair enough, but I don't care - different list manager back then.
@ Pratty
Pratty, I thought Laverde was dyed in the wool Bummer and was desperate to go there? What happened?
@ Pratty
Pratty, I thought Laverde was dyed in the wool Bummer and was desperate to go there? What happened?
Was this the kid that idolised JHird?
@ Pratty
Pratty, I thought Laverde was dyed in the wool Bummer and was desperate to go there? What happened?
Big Essendon fan who it was implied he put other clubs off at interview time so he could slip down the order...played the last 6 games after being injured all year...had 17 possies and a couple
of goals vs Adelaide a few weeks ago. hard to get a handle on him playing with a poor Essendon team.
Probably testing the Bombers to see if they will up his next contract offer...I think he will stay a bomber...
Big Essendon fan who it was implied he put other clubs off at interview time so he could slip down the order...played the last 6 games after being injured all year...had 17 possies and a couple
of goals vs Adelaide a few weeks ago. hard to get a handle on him playing with a poor Essendon team.
Probably testing the Bombers to see if they will up his next contract offer...I think he will stay a bomber...
Thnx EB.