I am not enjoying this game. The last 5 minutes was adequate.
Still, this thread is for the aftermath, not for me to release my frustrations.
Best for us was Daisy, throw away the rest.
Axe has to come for Mullet, Garlett, Jones, O’Shea, Kennedy, Cunningham, Weitering, SPS, Casboult, SOJ, Graham and reckons Dow and O’Brien need a spell.
And think Kruezer is re injured.
So min of 14 changes. Could be a record. :o
I thought O'Brien did well.
Dreadful! >:(
Can't wait to hear from Bolts. >:D
Axe has to come for Mullet, Garlett, Jones, O’Shea, Kennedy, Cunningham, Weitering, SPS, Casboult, SOJ, Graham and reckons Dow and O’Brien need a spell.
And think Kruezer is re injured.
So min of 14 changes. Could be a record. :o
You obviously haven’t seen the reserves - it gets worse I’m afraid
it was only 4 -5 weeks ago, we looked competitive
something has happened in the last 3-4 weeks
I wish I knew what it was. We were playing with desire. Today we had none.
I thought O'Brien did well.
Couple of poor disposals but I thought he held up ok and he is there to learn not win us the game...I'd just keep playing him on a wing for the rest of the season.
Axe has to come for Mullet, Garlett, Jones, O’Shea, Kennedy, Cunningham, Weitering, SPS, Casboult, SOJ, Graham and reckons Dow and O’Brien need a spell.
And think Kruezer is re injured.
So min of 14 changes. Could be a record. :o
There's no point talking about wholesale changes, our VFL team was beaten by 130 points last week and we saw tonight how effective Graham is at senior level.
We're stuck with it I'm afraid, let's hope that there's enough character in the group that they can pull their socks up and start playing for each other.
not to many positives in that, how hard is it to hit our forwards when kicking inside 50, the amount of time we drilled straight to Norf defenders may me scream!!!
Can't wait to hear from Bolts. >:D
Synergy, little wins, green shoots, bean shoots, weeds......
I thought O'Brien did well.
I agree. Solid debut in a dismal team performance.
Garlett was ok. Curnows x 2 and kruez stuck at it. Daisy solid.
Couple of poor disposals but I thought he held up ok and he is there to learn not win us the game...I'd just keep playing him on a wing for the rest of the season.
I agree wasn't our worst
Ed Curnow played mainly on Higgins and also did same on Sidebottom.....they were BOG's so Ed's game while serviceable needs some perspective....he isnt getting the job done from a tagging viewpoint...
Synergy, little wins, green shoots, bean shoots, weeds......
Dead wood, poison ivy, deadly nightshade, dieback, sooty mould......
Two and a half hours of my life I will never get back. Not in the mood for the post mortem atm, night all.
Phytopthora....
Dead wood, poison ivy, deadly nightshade, dieback, sooty mould......
;D
# Score out of 10
1 4
2 3
4 4
5 3
6 5
7 4
8 5
9 5
14 5
18 3
20 4
21 5
23 4
24 3
25 4
28 2
30 4
32 3
35 5
39 6
41 4
46 4 |
Why did someone think it was necessary to teach jones how to play fullback in the off season? He is totally confused as what to do.
was good last year on instinct . Just another example of us undeveloping players.. The club better not send a fluff piece telling me to look for sprouts. No decent free agent would come to us for we have no prospects of finals or flags for a long long while
I thought O'Brien did well.
Yeah your right. After a shaky start he looked quite comfortable.
Im just frustrated. His name shouldn’t be in that list.
Even Dow showed signs and wasn’t our worst but just think he might need a spell. Our history of throwing our kids to the wolves doesn’t seem to yield the results.
I have said the Jones experiment as a key defender is over. But play him as the loose "seventh" defender (ex forward), no opponent, just loose and full of juice.....
Gotta get excited about something :'( :'( :'( :'(
Yeah your right. After a shaky start he looked quite comfortable.
Im just frustrated. His name shouldn’t be in that list.
Even Dow showed signs and wasn’t our worst but just think he might need a spell. Our history of throwing our kids to the wolves doesn’t seem to yield the results.
There OK but physically challenged at this stage
I have said the Jones experiment as a key defender is over. But play him as the loose "seventh" defender (ex forward), no opponent, just loose and full of juice.....
Gotta get excited about something :'( :'( :'( :'(
Maybe once Rowe is back he cab play that role?
Dead wood, poison ivy, deadly nightshade, dieback, sooty mould......
LMAO!
Can we forfeit The rest of the season?
I can’t watch this crap again.
Depressing. Demoralising. Disgusting.
No green shoots here at all, just despair.
Looking back even more fondly on the Ratten era, yes there were problems but at least there was something. Now I find nothing. Nothing.
Paid up reserved seat member for over a decade. Paying $1500+ for that? No. Sorry, want to be thru and thru and think we have been. My kids have been told there’s no choice in our house, we are Blue. But, this is a fcking farce. Fck the sanctions from all that time ago. screw it all. Why are we so non competitive?! Don’t worry about wins or losses. Wtf has made us so miserably crap for years?
Over it.
After the last two years you expect 10th-11th with 9-10 wins. With our attitude, commitment and couldn't care less attitude you go no-where even if you had a great list on paper. After the last 15 years I'm sick of our club once again barely have a crack, looking like they don't give a phuk, like has happened many times over that period. And they expect supporters to stick.
Maybe once Rowe is back he cab play that role?
Absolutely. He needs to be the 2nd or 3rd defender, not the first one. With the other defenders being so poor, he is being sacrificed. Other teams have done their homework on him.
If we were playing the sort of team defence we were last year, he would be doing much better, but with our present defensive structure and the way the ball is coming down, he is not having much of a chance. He isn't a body player and never has been.
Having either Silvagni or Rowe down there gives us a body player, which we need. Then we need to fix up our defensive structures and get some of our players back into form and fitness. Particularly, we need to get the ball out of the middle, which e simply are not doing.
Can we forfeit The rest of the season?
I can’t watch this crap again.
Depressing. Demoralising. Disgusting.
No green shoots here at all, just despair.
Looking back even more fondly on the Ratten era, yes there were problems but at least there was something. Now I find nothing. Nothing.
Paid up reserved seat member for over a decade. Paying $1500+ for that? No. Sorry, want to be thru and thru and think we have been. My kids have been told there’s no choice in our house, we are Blue. But, this is a fcking farce. Fck the sanctions from all that time ago. screw it all. Why are we so non competitive?! Don’t worry about wins or losses. Wtf has made us so miserably crap for years?
Over it.
On the ASX we would be placed in a trading halt and required to explain our position....
Jones is finished.
He’s a massive confidence player and now he’s confidence is low he’s shot.
Buddy destroyed it in the last round last year.....hasn’t been the same since and won’t be.
Need to find someone else to hold down the key back spot but I don’t think that player is on our list.
Rowe and ASOS are not long term options.
FINAL SCORE
Ben Brown 5.1 (31)
Carlton 4.6 (30)
With you Micky, 100%
Been guilty of criticizing our captain but if there was one player we needed tonight it was him. Wet, windy conditions on a smallish ground favours players who tend to be in the right spot at the right time which is Murph. We can’t take a trick at the moment.
There’ll be the inevitable pleas for patience from supporters pointing out the amount of youth and inexperience, but since when has a young list en masse gone on to greatness? History has shown that it tends to demoralize a club unless the new blood is in the minority and is drip fed into a team with a core of established champions.
FINAL SCORE
Ben Brown 5.1 (31)
Carlton 4.6 (30)
That's happened twice today. Martin 6.0.36 Brisbane 2.5.17. At least we were close...lol.
Yeah your right. After a shaky start he looked quite comfortable.
Im just frustrated. His name shouldn’t be in that list.
Even Dow showed signs and wasn’t our worst but just think he might need a spell. Our history of throwing our kids to the wolves doesn’t seem to yield the results.
Well, we are certainly not throwing Harry McKay to the wolves...so he should be a champ when he gets his chance in 2or3 years time after he has “learnt his craft”....pfft
Something ain’t right with the playing group. Bolton could be in trouble.
Well, we are certainly not throwing Harry McKay to the wolves...so he should be a champ when he gets his chance in 2or3 years time after he has “learnt his craft”....pfft
Anything with 2x arms x legs and a pulse would be better than Graham, Mullet etc......
Well, we are certainly not throwing Harry McKay to the wolves...so he should be a champ when he gets his chance in 2or3 years time after he has “learnt his craft”....pfft
Agree. Put him In. We had NO. ONE. NO ONE contesting in Our F50. I’m free, I’ll give it a go. I’ll play for nothing too!
Doesn't matter what sort of defence you have, who is in there a Rance or a SOS, what level of confidence they have, when even a relatively slow side like Norp can have treacle players like Cunnington running out of defence through the corridor under minimal pressure. They didn't even need Hartung's pace tonight because our forwards do not chase often enough, and when they do we rave on about it like it's a match highlight when it should be a mundane part of our normal forward setup, like always!
Posters keep telling me how good certain blokes are, when in reality they are the real problem, and the kids are being led up the garden path by guys who want to pick and chose their contests.
Luckily for us we were playing a lightweight uncontested ball style team with similar size and body strength! :o
Finally, busted ar5e Daisy Thomas, overpriced spud, wreck on legs, moving like a mechanical cockroach, BoG for Carlton though!
Well I've had a feed now. That feels better. I sat in front of that game so stunned I missed dinner. An interesting experience at least ::)
Once again I extend my sympathy to our bluebaggers who attended the game. Sadly, this is becoming a repeat post :'(
Seriously, where does a win come from this year??? It’s not unreasonable to think we won’t win a game this year....
Last year we had some kind of defensive structure that worked. I realise that important parts of the machine like Doc are missing, but why haven't we reverted to what the team was at least doing proficiently? Right now we aren't winning in the midfield (herculean efforts from K and Cripps aren't enough), our defensive structures are non-existent and the much vaunted, new attacking mindset has been a deadest disaster. Time to stop the bleeding and shelve whatever this new game-plan is because it's simply not working - we're scoring even less and giving up a flood of goals. The blokes are playing confused, they look lost and afraid to commit to simple instinctive actions - which they invariably mess up.
I realise that confidence is a big thing but our blokes look confused and totally lost. I think the coaches and MC have to start picking more balanced sides and simplify things very rapidly.
That's happened twice today. Martin 6.0.36 Brisbane 2.5.17. At least we were close...lol.
How about this. Josh Kennedy kicks 5 against GC on return from injury.
Must say I'm shocked. I was so positive with Murphy out and Graham in, as some on here have been baying for, I was sure we would win easily.....
Seriously, where does a win come from this year??? It’s not unreasonable to think we won’t win a game this year....
Doing my best 'stay positive' impersonation I can say this: we haven't beaten this mob in 3 or 4 years. They also haven't lost many at BA. That's all I've got. Hope it cheers people up a little :P
Must say I'm shocked. I was so positive with Murphy out and Graham in, as some on here have been baying for, I was sure we would win easily.....
Are you looking for the "tongue in cheek" emoticon?
I said Kreuzer's injury was probably going to be a long term thing, he'll probably be like that for the remainder of the season, if they keep playing him.
I won't be surprised that they pull the pin on him before halfway and start setting him for 2019. The thing is if it's a iliopsoas it cannot get worse, but I doubt it will improve while he continues playing. They need him to get working on building support strength to correct the loss of core stability or he'll burn this season and most of his next!
This season is lost already, why fight it!
Must say I'm shocked. I was so positive with Murphy out and Graham in, as some on here have been baying for, I was sure we would win easily.....
It's OK Jack there is no point bothering, the Murphy haters will remain Murphy haters even when he's clearly and obviously missed.
LP, I'm not a physio but what exactly are Kreuzer's and Murph's injuries?
I had a groin tear and missed a season, could run in a straight line but couldn't move laterally. Lost pace and power and it took 18 months to improve.
Murph's injury sounds serious, is it related to an achilles strain? I can see him missing a lot of football as well.
FMD, posters are giving SoJ votes for that pile of sh1te!
If Weitering had played a game like that the same people would have in the stocks outside the ground facing three tonne of rotten tomatoes!
Sh1te, if only I had a surname I could be anything!
Would have loved for Brendon to say the team was crape tonight, and that there is no light at the end of the tunnel for the foreseeable future, just some honesty that's all.....
Did Murphy re-injure the syndemosis ankle ?
Putting aside any discussion about game plan & tactics.....it’s our basic skills & decision-making which are the biggest red flags for me, they simply aren’t AFL standard & quite frankly, an indictment on the entire playing group....
LP, I'm not a physio but what exactly are Kreuzer's and Murph's injuries?
I had a groin tear and missed a season, could run in a straight line but couldn't move laterally. Lost pace and power and it took 18 months to improve.
Murph's injury sounds serious, is it related to an achilles strain? I can see him missing a lot of football as well.
Kreuzer's injury hasn't really been reported in detail, but I doubted at the time it was a simple groin strain, it looked to me like it was an iliopsoas which is the muscle running from your spine across your pelvis to the inside of your thigh. It's the muscle that keeps you stable during lateral movement, and without it working correctly you lose a lot of power and agility. The common symptoms are no power jumping, not being able to stop suddenly, difficulty changing direction. But it's usually pain free after a week or so, and you can play on restricted. A couple of tells tonight, Kreuzer almost zero jump, often ended up stumbling onto his knees when trying to stop and change direction.
Murphy could be turf toe, or plantar fasciitism of the tendons that run from your heal along under your foot to your big toe. It could be two weeks or it could be many weeks.
LP, I'm not a physio but what exactly are Kreuzer's and Murph's injuries?
I had a groin tear and missed a season, could run in a straight line but couldn't move laterally. Lost pace and power and it took 18 months to improve.
Murph's injury sounds serious, is it related to an achilles strain? I can see him missing a lot of football as well.
Murphy has done his plantar fascia in some way. It's got good and bad points.
The good, it's a tendonitis type injury, and once damaged repairs quickly if surgery is required.
The bad: surgery won't help unless it's snapped.
Robert Harvey snapped his by repeatedly jumping off a chair. Was back playing within a week.
I watched Murphy warm up in runners recently. I'd say this has been bothering him for quite some time.
LP, I'm not a physio but what exactly are Kreuzer's and Murph's injuries?
I had a groin tear and missed a season, could run in a straight line but couldn't move laterally. Lost pace and power and it took 18 months to improve.
Murph's injury sounds serious, is it related to an achilles strain? I can see him missing a lot of football as well.
It's a $hit injury. If he's been playing with that no wonder he struggled. Will keep him out for a little while.
From afl website
The Blues will anxiously await the result of scans on Murphy's aggravated plantar fascia problem on Monday.
Not sure if the reporter is indicating that he aggravated an existing problem. Time will tell I guess.
All the best to Murphy for a complete recovery.
Putting aside any discussion about game plan & tactics.....it’s our basic skills & decision-making which are the biggest red flags for me, they simply aren’t AFL standard & quite frankly, an indictment on the entire playing group....
Brettie, I am usually onboard with you but clearly the problem is between the ears - look at the way we played agst. St Kilda, hAWKS THEN THE tIGERS...
Then a fall into putrid....
Something has happened...
And Bolts should be worried.
Some of the comments within the votes thread:
“Cunningham is showing glimpses from half back. Reminds more of a young David Wojinski.
Got pace and has a crack, stuffs up but is trying.....”
Totally agree, gaining more confidence, has talent and will be good for us BUT it was game no. 13!!! Matthew Kennedy can play, is still injured and AFL game no. 21.
We haven’t done a Hawthorn or Swans and slid 2 or 3 newbies in amongst hardened A graders. We throw them in together with their peers, a couple of older heads and some window dressing. The Cunningham’s, Curnow, Dows, Fishers, Garlett, O’Brien’s, Kennedy's, McKays, Plowmans, Marchbank, SPS, SOJ all rely on each other for support yet they would all be considered pups in any other top side. Even our A Grader Cripps is still under 80 games, a benchmark that many suggest is when you start to really belong.
Our window dressing tonight let us down badly, they aren’t up to it, but what can you do?
Marchbank, Dogherty and Williamson would be in our best back 6, with ASOS and Rowe in the wings.....none are match fit or available BIG HOLE
We have no back up ruckmen to give Kruz a week off to try to recover properly. BIG HOLE.
Now we are without the ground speed of Pickett or Murphy.
Watch out for Dejoning in the NBs, he’s a player and lets get Darcy Lang in to see what he can do.
Continuity is the key, we haven’t got it yet but luck must turn our way shortly. But it ain’t fun waiting!!
Quite frankly, if I was on the board of CFC, I would vote for Bolton's sacking....
What a joke.
Promised so much but have delivered nothing.
Being a young side doesn’t mean you can play with no balls and no heart.
Sick of our Club being a laughing stock.
What concerns me is the younger kids being belted physically, and, mentally. I would much rather they play harder bodies, and, put the group together to gel and get some confidence. We don't really have any harder bodies to pick from right now.
Season is over for us. Time to plan what we can get out of the rest of our matches.
Season over after Round 4... what a sad Club we have become.
What’s scarier is we have JK, Darling, LeCeas and Nuc Nat to deal with next week. Yet another thrashing :(
I fell asleep during the quarter time break and didn't wake up until 4 minutes left in the last.
It seems i spent more time awake than the whole team did.
I thought after Brisbanes 'effort' earlier today that we might've had a break in the media this week.
But no, we won the spotlight back.
But hey, its not all bad. We got a record today.....lowest ever score at that ground...if not the state!
Does anyone else get the feeling that Cripps is playing "angry".
He's carrying a big weight at the moment and with both Gibbs gone and now Murphy missing he's copping all the attention.
Hardly a wonder his effectiveness is down.
RIP CARLTON FOOTBALL CLUB
1864 - 2018
Does anyone else get the feeling that Cripps is playing "angry".
He's carrying a big weight at the moment and with both Gibbs gone and now Murphy missing he's copping all the attention.
Hardly a wonder his effectiveness is down.
Yes, I think the same. Kennedy will help him, but he is only young himself and played 20 games. Cripps is now our number one midfiielder.
Crisps is our only midfielder, the rest are ballast.
Does anyone else get the feeling that Cripps is playing "angry".
He's carrying a big weight at the moment and with both Gibbs gone and now Murphy missing he's copping all the attention.
Hardly a wonder his effectiveness is down.
I said this last week.
I said Kreuzer's injury was probably going to be a long term thing, he'll probably be like that for the remainder of the season, if they keep playing him.
I won't be surprised that they pull the pin on him before halfway and start setting him for 2019. The thing is if it's a iliopsoas it cannot get worse, but I doubt it will improve while he continues playing. They need him to get working on building support strength to correct the loss of core stability or he'll burn this season and most of his next!
This season is lost already, why fight it!
Agree.
Hey everybody ! Why so glum ? In the not too distant future, when we become the Melbourne equivalent of the great Brisbane 3peat teams, performances like yesterday will be a long, distant memory. Just hang on my friends. Food will taste better, the air will seem fresher. You'll have more energy and self confidence than you ever dreamed of.
Putting aside any discussion about game plan & tactics.....it’s our basic skills & decision-making which are the biggest red flags for me, they simply aren’t AFL standard & quite frankly, an indictment on the entire playing group....
Totally agree. Everything is built on solid skills and high awareness. There was virtually no evidence of either last night. Until that is fixed we cannot move forward.
Steps I would take today:
1. Summons the entire coaching and playing list to a remote location and light a big campfire;
2. Wheel in a trailer load of VB;
3. Look each other in the eye and dish out some home truths around the campfire, a no holds barred free for all;
4. Empty said trailer load of VB;
5. Start fresh with the footy stuff Tuesday.
We are playing injured players and when you lose the majority of our already light on top end talent, we instantly become non competitive.
We need close to a full list to really guage where we are at.
From last nights game:
Murphy missing
Docherty missing
Marchbank missing
Lang missing
Pickett missing
Kruezer and Kennedy both are injured and shouldn’t be playing
Pretty much have no midfield once you add losing Gibbs to that list.
Having said that our skills are woeful and bringing in the likes of mullet, O’Shea and retaining graham makes no sense to me.
Once the emotion from last night subsided a little I realized while we are still miles away in this rebuild, there are also some real reasons some beyond our control as to why we performed like we did last night.
Hey everybody ! Why so glum ? In the not too distant future, when we become the Melbourne equivalent of the great Brisbane 3peat teams, performances like yesterday will be a long, distant memory. Just hang on my friends. Food will taste better, the air will seem fresher. You'll have more energy and self confidence than you ever dreamed of.
Help me get through this Pauly.
Out coached.
NM crowded our forwards. Bolton had no counter plan.
Expect crisis meetings soon
Lambs to the slaughter.
In a previous post, TOWNSENDCALLING, mentioned that we're not sliding in a couple of newbies amongst hardened senior footballers... spot on. We have a team of newbies crying out for direction/leadership where there simply isn't any, or precious little. The real danger in this is that history will repeat... newbies brought into a losing culture run the very real risk of ending up learning how to deal with failure/don't know how to win. Addressing this requires superior coaching and all round club culture to avoid having a group of 'potential' who never realise what they could achieve.
Rowe and ASOS are more important in this side than many may realise. They're both strong, hard and vocal. Sadly there's not much more than a season or two in each of them.
Murphy is not a leader and as such his loss wasn't significant, however, as a player, his loss was significant - but nowhere near an 86 pt difference.
Cripps is getting frustrated with the lack of support, but he really is growing nicely as a leader... please don't dampen that dash of mongrel he's got CFC, just direct it.
Daisy really stood up as a leader and player last night.
Jones is a one dimensional player who has been worked out by opposition clubs. Someone suggested he should be loose on the backline to play on instinct - absolutely, and it's the only way he can play.
Weitering needs a break, his head aint right, and wheeling him out each week is only setting him up for more failure and self-esteem issues .
We have plenty of blokes taking the field who fly in the face of BBs mantra of only playing blokes who have the form... clearly Garlett, Mullett, O'Shea, Weitering and even Kennedy, don't/haven't show enough to suggest they're in form or up to footy as this level... BUT the cupboard is bare in terms of replacements.
Kreuzer needs a rest, he's a shadow of last year. Marchbank and Kennedy worry me in terms of being glass men. (I watched Tomlinson and Hopper yesterday and dreamt of what could have been!).
So last night we carried into the game plenty of blokes who are in average or less form, or are deeply inexperienced (in terms of AFL footy and/or understanding our game plan), injured or just not up to it... recipe for disaster - an 86 pt disaster.
Phillips and others... please show something in today's NBs game!!!!!
yea, like this afternoon at Prince's Park after the seconds get done by 150 points and we have 23 fit blokes to pick a side from for next week.
I think we have gotten ahead of ourselves.
We have dropped triers like Silvagni in round 1, o Shea in round 2, lamb and polson in round 3, to bring in players with little exposed form and have avoided dropping others who are talented but not contributing and also blokes carrying injuries with the end result being last night's debacle.
Sometimes you have to reward the effort in order to ensure players keep playing with effort.
I'm not sure going with bam bam and Dow first up ahead of kerridge with his finish to last season has sent the right message to the group.
We've since obviously made further changes that have similarly cost us the ability to be competitive and it's all pointing to us having pulled the wrong reign.
What the fark has happened since the Richmond game ?? Did they get ahead if themselves because they gave the reigining premiers a run for their money ??
Its heen nothing short of embarrassing ever since that night.
Thats 2 weeks in a row noe that Ive turned it off at halftime and not bothered watching the second half. I at least checked back a couple times after qtr time for the Gold Coast game.
Dont think I'll even bother watching any of it next week.
Im cooked... Im done.... OVER IT.
????????????
Here is a big part of our problem:
Sam Docherty Season
Jarrod Pickett 10 weeks
Ciaran Byrne 3-4 weeks
Tom Williamson 3-4 weeks
Darcy Lang Test
Cillian McDaid 4-5 weeks
Caleb Marchbank 4 weeks
Matthew Lobbe 4 weeks
Alex Silvagni 2-3 weeks
Murphy Who knows?
Kennedy Who knows?
Kreuzer Who knows?
That's nearly half of our best team is unavailable and won't be available for at least a month.
Strap yourselves in for a rough ride and see how we look at the end of May.
Here is a big part of our problem:
Sam Docherty Season
Jarrod Pickett 10 weeks
Ciaran Byrne 3-4 weeks
Tom Williamson 3-4 weeks
Darcy Lang Test
Cillian McDaid 4-5 weeks
Caleb Marchbank 4 weeks
Matthew Lobbe 4 weeks
Alex Silvagni 2-3 weeks
Murphy Who knows?
Kennedy Who knows?
Kreuzer Who knows?
That's nearly half of our best team is unavailable and won't be available for at least a month.
Strap yourselves in for a rough ride and see how we look at the end of May.
Don't buy that. My best team before the season had...
Murphy
Kreuzer
Docherty
Marchbank
and maybe Pickett and Kennedy.
That was maybe 6 players. Not half our best 22. Not even close.
Obviously injuries don't help, but how many injuries did we have from that group in R2?
Docherty
Kennedy
Pickett
...and not much else.
Injuries are not responsible for the turnaround from week 1 to week 2, nor week 2 to week 3 and not even from week 3 to week 4.
Rowe, Simpson, ACOS, Thomas...how long do they have, some think Rowe and ACOS can provide stability down back and thats probably true but only short term but then what? ..
And then we have others wanting Kerridge back.....bandaids only and not very good ones....
I watched Jessie Glass McCasker last week vs Collingwood in the VFL and he is horrendous with his awareness, ball use....he has actually got worse... are we breaking these kids in the twos?...How do our players end up worse than when they arrive?...ditto Weitering.....who is next Harry?
Something aint right in the coaching area, we need a review done by a independent panel of qualified persons to get to the bottom of what is wrong and act on recommendations....How can our entire operation ie VFL, AFL and even the womens team be so poor across the board....
Out coached.
NM crowded our forwards. Bolton had no counter plan.
Expect crisis meetings soon
We have forwards?
Here is a big part of our problem:
Sam Docherty Season
Jarrod Pickett 10 weeks
Ciaran Byrne 3-4 weeks
Tom Williamson 3-4 weeks
Darcy Lang Test
Cillian McDaid 4-5 weeks
Caleb Marchbank 4 weeks
Matthew Lobbe 4 weeks
Alex Silvagni 2-3 weeks
Murphy Who knows?
Kennedy Who knows?
Kreuzer Who knows?
That's nearly half of our best team is unavailable and won't be available for at least a month.
Strap yourselves in for a rough ride and see how we look at the end of May.
There is a LOT to be said about this. Of the players listed only McDaid and Lobbe were NOT in our plans for 2018 in a big way.
Lang and Kennedy were to replace Gibbs and add to our midfield depth and staying power. Where have we been beaten this season? In the midfield.
Alex Silvagni (and Rowe) were there to offer strength and stability to our defence. Without them Jones has been struggling.
Docherty has been a HUGE hole in our defence, as he added so much confidence to our younger defenders.
Ciaran Byrne and Tom Williamson were those to add athleticism, pace and run for our defence. They were supposed to get to contests and run down forwards.
Jarrod Pickett was to add pace and defensive pressure to our forward line.
Marchbank has been OK, but we have missed him and will continue to, even if his form has been average.
Murphy was an open wound last night. There have been those who knock his leadership, and they do have a point. But without him last night we were very ordinary and lacked his ability in the midfield. He was the leader and he was gone: that is how we played.
Kreuzer: in the pre-season he looked like he was going to have another year like last year. Instead he has struggled with injury and needs a few weeks to recover. We can't afford him to off at the moment, but that is another tale. But the result of his injuries he has been beaten by guys he beat last year. With a weakened midfield, that is an advantage we cannot afford to give away.
Lobbe would be useful: he was recruited to fill in when our rucks were down. But he hasn't been able to get on the field to a realistic level as yet. He may not add much around the ground, but he does get taps and he does direct them.
You look at that and there is a HUGE hole in our team that is not easy to cover. No team can cover that many important players while we haven't the depth to realistically succeed at it.
We have forwards?
Shhh..............AFL's best kept secret.
Our forward line was poor last night, but the delivery to it was almost criminal. How were we going to take big pack marks in those conditions? Unbelievable! Had they looked to open the forward line and find a leading target, we still would have lost, but maybe not quite so badly.
At the moment we bomb the ball in and have no structure to stop the ball coming out. For that matter, we get very few crumbing goals. We usually just turn the ball over.
SPS really worries me too... was hard as nails last year but this year has been lazy, won't tackle and jibbing contests.
Who chucked the weedkiller on all our green shoots?
I'm not sure going with bam bam and Dow first up ahead of kerridge with his finish to last season has sent the right message to the group.
This....
Big mistake.
Not the whole excuse but certainly a part of it....
Player Disposals
SPS 12
Graham 12
O'Brien 11
Cuners 10
Dow 10
Garlett 8
None of these blokes ahould be playing 1s on revealed form.
Player Disposals
SPS 12
Graham 12
O'Brien 11
Cuners 10
Dow 10
Garlett 8
None of these blokes ahould be playing 1s on revealed form.
We got rid of the blokes applying pressure for their spots, they play AFL now elsewhere!
Out coached.
NM crowded our forwards. Bolton had no counter plan.
Expect crisis meetings soon
He said in his presser they were shifting extra numbers around to plug holes. In the end, there werent enough +1s to send around. At some point, you need to stop relying on extras being shifted around by WINNING THE FARKEN CONTESTED FOOTY. If you have it, they dont. If you hand it over to them, its gonna hurt.
He said in his presser they were shifting extra numbers around to plug holes. In the end, there werent enough +1s to send around. At some point, you need to stop relying on extras being shifted around by WINNING THE FARKEN CONTESTED FOOTY. If you have it, they dont. If you hand it over to them, its gonna hurt.
Same old - too much left to too few. Once Murphy went down, the few became fewer. The kids won't save us, and nor should they.
As Clarkson stated a couple of years ago, winning the contested ball is overstated, as long as you have the means of forcing a quick turnover, as the Hawks did frequently in their recent 3peat.
As Clarkson stated a couple of years ago, winning the contested ball is overstated, as long as you have the means of forcing a quick turnover, as the Hawks did frequently in their recent 3peat.
Clarkson is over-rated, they had massive AFL assistance to build that list, Kennett complained and complained until they got super deals and maximum support. The Dawks were receiving priority picks when we were finishing on the bottom of the ladder.
Steps I would take today:
1. Summons the entire coaching and playing list to a remote location and light a big campfire;
2. Wheel in a trailer load of VB;
3. Look each other in the eye and dish out some home truths around the campfire, a no holds barred free for all;
4. Empty said trailer load of VB;
5. Start fresh with the footy stuff Tuesday.
Not sure that will work, the younger generation are not into VB.
Not sure that will work, the younger generation are not into VB.
My bat, my ball, they would drink VB ;D
Not sure that will work, the younger generation are not into VB.
...so that's the problem!!!
Clarkson is over-rated, they had massive AFL assistance to build that list, Kennett complained and complained until they got super deals and maximum support. The Dawks were receiving priority picks when we were finishing on the bottom of the ladder.
Yes, those flags belong to Ratten. ;D
...so that's the problem!!!
They're probably more likely to be in to Vodka Cruisers...
I still maintain our conditioning and endurance is a fail! Our blokes look knackered compared to other teams, week in week out. We also dont get to places to create spread and space. Many of the stray missed kicks are the result of fatigued players.
Clarkson is over-rated, they had massive AFL assistance to build that list, Kennett complained and complained until they got super deals and maximum support. The Dawks were receiving priority picks when we were finishing on the bottom of the ladder.
Get real. Clarko's a gun. Rebuilt them once and on the way to doing to again. So flexible with his game plans over the years.
I think we have gotten ahead of ourselves.
We have dropped triers like Silvagni in round 1, o Shea in round 2, lamb and polson in round 3, to bring in players with little exposed form and have avoided dropping others who are talented but not contributing and also blokes carrying injuries with the end result being last night's debacle.
Sometimes you have to reward the effort in order to ensure players keep playing with effort.
I'm not sure going with bam bam and Dow first up ahead of kerridge with his finish to last season has sent the right message to the group.
We've since obviously made further changes that have similarly cost us the ability to be competitive and it's all pointing to us having pulled the wrong reign.
This is not too far off to my way of thought.
Clarkson is over-rated, they had massive AFL assistance to build that list, Kennett complained and complained until they got super deals and maximum support. The Dawks were receiving priority picks when we were finishing on the bottom of the ladder.
Can I have some of whatever you're smoking, Spotted One... you are taking the p1ss, right? As much as I dislike the little pr1ck, he is a brilliant senior coach... one of the best.
Clarkson is over-rated, they had massive AFL assistance to build that list, Kennett complained and complained until they got super deals and maximum support. The Dawks were receiving priority picks when we were finishing on the bottom of the ladder.
I have hated Clarkson's guts since the Battle of Brittain.... but I would sack Bolton and replace him with Clarkson in a heartbeat.
we need some one with a bit of C.U.N.T.
Completely how I feel Maxi >:( >:( >:( >:(
I have hated Clarkson's guts since the Battle of Brittain.... but I would sack Bolton and replace him with Clarkson in a heartbeat.
we need some one with a bit of C.U.N.T.
Pagan had it, our players revolted. MM had it, our players revolted. Clarkson would end up with no players at our club, they would all be in therapy. ;D
Collingwood get criticized and bagged and respond accordingly. Essendon same this week and beat Port. Our team gets slagged and we produce an even worse effort than the week before against weaker opposition. We are rabble .... AGAIN
I haven't seen the presser. Anyone know how many times Bolts used the word 'growth'?
Surely there is something wrong. Most of our players are better than that. Bolts is a teacher. He talks like it. He coaches like it. I imagine that style would really pi$$ off some players after a while.
And I don't buy that Murphy was a huge loss and would have made a difference. He's not a 'Follow me boys and I will show you the way' type of leader.
We are too meek and mild... we need somebody / someone to step up and DO SOMETHING !!
Our defence...
It was a strength last year.
At the very least let's get that back and functioning. Go back to the old set-up (have we deviated much from it) ....or has it been worked out and exploited?
Obviously with Docherty missing theré's an integral part of the rebound from defence missing, but there seems to be no-one who has taken up, or even attempted, to take up that role.
Bolton is as close to Clarkson as it's possible to be. Apart from the article below, I have word from someone connected to the Hawks that what Lewis says is true. If you want Clarkson, this is as close as it gets.
I have never heard Clarkson pot any of his players in a presser. I don't watch every one, but the ones I have watched he defends them quite a lot.
http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/hawthorns-jordan-lewis-says-new-carlton-coach-brendon-bolton-is-a-clone-of-top-hawk-alastair-clarkson/news-story/c7c6c624d8ce5e64e103446e735d7841
Here is a big part of our problem:
Sam Docherty Season
Jarrod Pickett 10 weeks
Ciaran Byrne 3-4 weeks
Tom Williamson 3-4 weeks
Darcy Lang Test
Cillian McDaid 4-5 weeks
Caleb Marchbank 4 weeks
Matthew Lobbe 4 weeks
Alex Silvagni 2-3 weeks
Murphy Who knows?
Kennedy Who knows?
Kreuzer Who knows?
That's nearly half of our best team is unavailable and won't be available for at least a month.
Strap yourselves in for a rough ride and see how we look at the end of May.
WW we can add those returning serious injury. Sam Rowe and Flipper, and may be others I've forgotten.
That's 14 players not available for selection.
Then there's the real newbies (I.e. 1st yrs) too who are simply not ready for AFL. That only leaves our fringe players and the few in yr 2/3.
Then we have a senoir coach on trainer wheels who no longer has a wise mentor in the coaches box.
Bolton is as close to Clarkson as it's possible to be. Apart from the article below, I have word from someone connected to the Hawks that what Lewis says is true. If you want Clarkson, this is as close as it gets.
I have never heard Clarkson pot any of his players in a presser. I don't watch every one, but the ones I have watched he defends them quite a lot.
http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/hawthorns-jordan-lewis-says-new-carlton-coach-brendon-bolton-is-a-clone-of-top-hawk-alastair-clarkson/news-story/c7c6c624d8ce5e64e103446e735d7841
(http://images4.fanpop.com/image/photos/20400000/Mini-Me-mini-me-20446903-224-270.jpg)
Bolton is as close to Clarkson as it's possible to be. Apart from the article below, I have word from someone connected to the Hawks that what Lewis says is true. If you want Clarkson, this is as close as it gets.
I have never heard Clarkson pot any of his players in a presser. I don't watch every one, but the ones I have watched he defends them quite a lot.
http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/hawthorns-jordan-lewis-says-new-carlton-coach-brendon-bolton-is-a-clone-of-top-hawk-alastair-clarkson/news-story/c7c6c624d8ce5e64e103446e735d7841
Yes, maybe but you don't last long when you side doesn't crack in and have a proper go. Hopefully that changes for his sake.
Yes, maybe but you don't last long when you side doesn't crack in and have a proper go. Hopefully that changes for his sake.
Fair enough.
WW we can add those returning serious injury. Sam Rowe and Flipper, and may be others I've forgotten.
That's 14 players not available for selection.
Then there's the real newbies (I.e. 1st yrs) too who are simply not ready for AFL. That only leaves our fringe players and the few in yr 2/3.
Then we have a senoir coach on trainer wheels who no longer has a wise mentor in the coaches box.
Totally agree, but who? I'd like it to be a Carlton person, someone who could coach and possesses some mongrel.
Our defence...
It was a strength last year.
At the very least let's get that back and functioning. Go back to the old set-up (have we deviated much from it) ....or has it been worked out and exploited?
Obviously with Docherty missing theré's an integral part of the rebound from defence missing, but there seems to be no-one who has taken up, or even attempted, to take up that role.
Our defense was good as half the team were back there last season :), but we couldnt score given when the ball went forward it was usually 3 on six or similar but it did make games closer and more interesting until the media bagged us out for playing unattractive footy and Bolton got pressured to be more attacking/stylish with his game plan.
We have the players to play good defense, we dont have the players to be a good offensive team.
Its an interesting point you make as what will it take for Bolton to crack and go back to the old game plan, how many big defeats until the dam breaks and he starts playing more men back and behind the ball..?
Our defense was good as half the team were back there last season :), but we couldnt score given when the ball went forward it was usually 3 on six or similar but it did make games closer and more interesting until the media bagged us out for playing unattractive footy and Bolton got pressured to be more attacking/stylish with his game plan.
We have the players to play good defense, we dont have the players to be a good offensive team.
Its an interesting point you make as what will it take for Bolton to crack and go back to the old game plan, how many big defeats until the dam breaks and he starts playing more men back and behind the ball..?
If we're not ready forward...and it seems we're not...at least solidify this part of our game.
Totally agree, but who? I'd like it to be a Carlton person, someone who could coach and possesses some mongrel.
We had 2 (Pagan and MM) sacked both of em.
I haven't seen the presser. Anyone know how many times Bolts used the word 'growth'?
Surely there is something wrong. Most of our players are better than that. Bolts is a teacher. He talks like it. He coaches like it. I imagine that style would really pi$$ off some players after a while.
And I don't buy that Murphy was a huge loss and would have made a difference. He's not a 'Follow me boys and I will show you the way' type of leader.
"Growth" not used once. "Grow" used twice.
"Growth" not used once. "Grow" used twice.
Disappointed. Not what we stand for. Need far far more contributors around the ball.....
We had 2 (Pagan and MM) sacked both of em.
Mentor for BB, not a reference to senior coaches. :)
We had 2 (Pagan and MM) sacked both of em.
I would have sacked them three time just to make sure.....Ratten got unlucky and probably was the only coach to have the playing list onside regardless of the results...
I would have sacked them three time just to make sure.....Ratten got unlucky and probably was the only coach to have the playing list onside regardless of the results...
It's always amazed me how Carlton can take highly experienced and successful AFL coaches, Premiership coaches no less, and turn them into hacks in a few short years.
And what of our players, are they so lacking in discipline and team ethic and so thoroughly spoiled that these successful coaches can't cut through with them, or do they rebel against them because they are lazy and comfortable and can't be bothered with the challenge?
Totally agree, but who? I'd like it to be a Carlton person, someone who could coach and possesses some mongrel.
I can think of one or two past players, but agree. Should be a Carlton man
It's always amazed me how Carlton can take highly experienced and successful AFL coaches, Premiership coaches no less, and turn them into hacks in a few short years.
And what of our players, are they so lacking in discipline and team ethic and so thoroughly spoiled that these successful coaches can't cut through with them, or do they rebel against them because they are lazy and comfortable and can't be bothered with the challenge?
We should get credit for exposing them as the flimsy pretenders that they are. Only real effort and dedication can produce a sterling reputation as a coach's graveyard, a reputation which is unlikely to be surpassed.
Seriously though, Leigh Matthews made the point a couple of years ago (which I agree with) that sometimes too much is made of the senior coach's importance.
https://www.smh.com.au/sport/afl/time-to-cap-the-wages-of-senior-afl-coaches-leigh-matthews-20150530-ghd3l9.html
I would have sacked them three time just to make sure.....Ratten got unlucky and probably was the only coach to have the playing list onside regardless of the results...
Ask Jarrad Waite how he got on with Ratts.
Ask Jarrad Waite how he got on with Ratts.
Most of the playing list onside..... :P
Ask Jarrad Waite how he got on with Ratts.
Ratts probably got the sh1ts with him because he was a dumb f4ck - if he wasn't injured, he was suspended or having a bad hair day. Malthouse blasted him as well.
His best was elite, but playing at that level 5% of the time doesn't cut it.
Most of the playing list onside..... :P
Agree. Point is, every coach would have players not on the same page as him for a host of reasons.
Seriously though, Leigh Matthews made the point a couple of years ago (which I agree with) that sometimes too much is made of the senior coach's importance.
I tend to agree, because as we've been discussing here today decisions about recruiting and list management are at least as critical to long term success as is day to day coaching, often far more so, and often the senior coach has only limited input.
I think that Bolton will do a good job but he's been handed a bit of a poisoned chalice, but then so was Denis Pagan.
I can think of one or two past players, but agree. Should be a Carlton man
Name one coach who has won a flag in the past 10 years with his original club. The last were Roos and Worsfold in 2005 and 2006. Hardwick, Beveridge, Clarkson, Scott, Malthouse and Longmire all played with different clubs to the ones they coached to a premiership. Think also Parkin, Matthews, Sheedy, et. al. Bringing in a ‘Carlton man’ is folly.
Ratts probably got the sh1ts with him because he was a dumb f4ck - if he wasn't injured, he was suspended or having a bad hair day. Malthouse blasted him as well.
His best was elite, but playing at that level 5% of the time doesn't cut it.
Waite didn't play too many bad games in his time at Carlton, his biggest problem was that he was injury prone so he struggled to get a consistent run at it.
Nothing's changed at North but his current coach seems happy with him.
Agree. Point is, every coach would have players not on the same page as him for a host of reasons.
Yep Most teams have a Waite, Stringer, Vickery, Fev, Hall etc on their list, someone talented who frustrates you to the max and it ends up going South....
Waite didn't play too many bad games in his time at Carlton, his biggest problem was that he was injury prone so he struggled to get a consistent run at it.
Nothing's changed at North but his current coach seems happy with him.
My recollection is that he was inconsistent, and infuriatingly so.
Name one coach who has won a flag in the past 10 years with his original club. The last were Roos and Worsfold in 2005 and 2006. Hardwick, Beveridge, Clarkson, Scott, Malthouse and Longmire all played with different clubs to the ones they coached to a premiership. Think also Parkin, Matthews, Sheedy, et. al. Bringing in a ‘Carlton man’ is folly.
Good points Jofo.
The discussion was initially in relation to a mentor for our novice coach. Not the Carltonness of the coach per se.
There's suggestion that BB could do with a mentor, particularly in the box. What do you think?
Waite didn't play too many bad games in his time at Carlton, his biggest problem was that he was injury prone so he struggled to get a consistent run at it.
Nothing's changed at North but his current coach seems happy with him.
You my friend have a memory that is failing you badly.
Agree. Point is, every coach would have players not on the same page as him for a host of reasons.
Malthouses favourite saying in regards to this is simple.
The 22nd player on the list thinks you are a genius,
The 23rd player on the list thinks you are a hack.
That can be extrapolated out
My recollection is that he was inconsistent, and infuriatingly so.
I think that his best games were elite level and we expected it more often, but I can't recall too many bad ones.
I actually thought that the best football I saw him play was at half back, but later on we didn't have the luxury of playing him there.
My recollection is that he was inconsistent, and infuriatingly so.
Re: Waite at CFC
My recall is also of his inconsistencies. Perhaps related to missing games through injury and (frustratingly) suspensions.
This is probably digressing from the thread though.
There were some games he was so bad he may as well have been dropped.
Waite was very hot and cold at times and the excuse made for him is that he wasn't a key forward but had to do it through lack of other options.
A lot of older players were not happy with Ratt's including TBird and a few others, they were the tail trying to wag the dog.
In the end those players got the kibosh as well, it is best to remember that!
A lot of older players were not happy with Ratt's including TBird and a few others, they were the tail trying to wag the dog.
In the end those players got the kibosh as well, it is best to remember that!
Yet people blame Malthouse for doing the same thing in regards to Laidler.
It's always amazed me how Carlton can take highly experienced and successful AFL coaches, Premiership coaches no less, and turn them into hacks in a few short years.
And what of our players, are they so lacking in discipline and team ethic and so thoroughly spoiled that these successful coaches can't cut through with them, or do they rebel against them because they are lazy and comfortable and can't be bothered with the challenge?
X2. Couldn’t agree more.
Yet people blame Malthouse for doing the same thing in regards to Laidler.
I think quite different circumstances.
Ratten still valued blokes like TBird and Waite but they allegedly tried to white-ant him in the end.
MM didn't value Laidler, we really do not know why, all we know is that Laidler sort of proved him wrong and MM's success was all in the past.
Anyway, it's all subjective.
Remember those photos of SOS and Bolts sitting is the stands at Round 22/23 taking notes of players while Barker was in charge? This is what he was looking at:
Backs
Sam Rowe Michael Jamison Sam Docherty
H/Backs
Matthew Dick Zach Tuohy Kade Simpson
C
Jason Tutt Ed Curnow Blaine Boekhorst
H/Forwards
Troy Menzel Tom Bell Chris Yarran
Forwards
Andrew Walker Matthew Watson Andrejs Everitt
Rucks
Matthew Kreuzer Patrick Cripps David Ellard
Int
Dylan Buckley Mark Whiley Cameron Wood
SUB
Bradley Walsh
I feel far more confident with our current list than with at least 12 of these players. (2 very good servants have retired)
Not hard to see what SOS and Bolts were writing down.
(2 best for us in the 80+ pt beating? Curnow and Cripps...half backs for GWS. Marchbank and Plowman)
Our forward line was poor last night, but the delivery to it was almost criminal. How were we going to take big pack marks in those conditions? Unbelievable! Had they looked to open the forward line and find a leading target, we still would have lost, but maybe not quite so badly.
At the moment we bomb the ball in and have no structure to stop the ball coming out. For that matter, we get very few crumbing goals. We usually just turn the ball over.
Rewatch the game.
Have a look at our guys when we have the ball in our half forward line... Specifically watch the "forwards"
You might see one of them make a lead. If Jack is in the forward line you will see some movement out of him, but the rest...
You wanna know why we bomb the ball in forward, it's because that's what our forwards are demanding with their ridiculous stationary, lazy @rse play.
The reason our forwards are the worst in the league is because they are lazy, and they don't work.
Remember those photos of SOS and Bolts sitting is the stands at Round 22/23 taking notes of players while Barker was in charge? This is what he was looking at:
Backs
Sam Rowe Michael Jamison Sam Docherty
H/Backs
Matthew Dick Zach Tuohy Kade Simpson
C
Jason Tutt Ed Curnow Blaine Boekhorst
H/Forwards
Troy Menzel Tom Bell Chris Yarran
Forwards
Andrew Walker Matthew Watson Andrejs Everitt
Rucks
Matthew Kreuzer Patrick Cripps David Ellard
Int
Dylan Buckley Mark Whiley Cameron Wood
SUB
Bradley Walsh
I feel far more confident with our current list than with at least 12 of these players. (2 very good servants have retired)
Not hard to see what SOS and Bolts were writing down.
(2 best for us in the 80+ pt beating? Curnow and Cripps...half backs for GWS. Marchbank and Plowman)
I'd rather not :-\
We got it wrong for so long...... hence we now have babies and senior citizens with nothing of note in between :-[
Rewatch the game.
Have a look at our guys when we have the ball in our half forward line... Specifically watch the "forwards"
You might see one of them make a lead. If Jack is in the forward line you will see some movement out of him, but the rest...
You wanna know why we bomb the ball in forward, it's because that's what our forwards are demanding with their ridiculous stationary, lazy @rse play.
The reason our forwards are the worst in the league is because they are lazy, and they don't work.
Can't agree with this.
The mids and backs, if they actually win the ball, usualy fluff arounde with the ball laterally for so long that the opposition floods back and there simply isn't the space to lead once theball finally moves inside 50....
Pretty simple - good sides move the ball forward quickly - much more often than not - so that their forwards can compete on a level pegging.
Rewatch the game.
Have a look at our guys when we have the ball in our half forward line... Specifically watch the "forwards"
You might see one of them make a lead. If Jack is in the forward line you will see some movement out of him, but the rest...
You wanna know why we bomb the ball in forward, it's because that's what our forwards are demanding with their ridiculous stationary, lazy @rse play.
The reason our forwards are the worst in the league is because they are lazy, and they don't work.
You re-watched the game? You're brave..lol.
There is another word for "brave"?
;)
Rewatch the game.
Have a look at our guys when we have the ball in our half forward line... Specifically watch the "forwards"
You might see one of them make a lead. If Jack is in the forward line you will see some movement out of him, but the rest...
You wanna know why we bomb the ball in forward, it's because that's what our forwards are demanding with their ridiculous stationary, lazy @rse play.
The reason our forwards are the worst in the league is because they are lazy, and they don't work.
Thank-you Deags.
It's clear that when we win the ball on the HBF or exit D50 we've often got nobody to kick it to, I saw the same pattern in the VFL yesterday and one of two things then happens.
Guys get run down and are lambasted by fans and media for trying to do too much, when in reality they had nobody ahead of them to kick to! Even worse, nobody running in parallel to hand off too!
You will often see our ball carrier have to dodge his way through some of our own players who are standing still minding the grass.We have in our memory that Dennis shepherd, the one in which he runs past an opponent to shield the ball carrier. Most clubs call that playing football, it's a highlight for us because it stands out happening so rarely at Carlton! That simple act among others made Dennis a legend!
I don't know how many times I have seen an opponent run past a Carlton player to charge down the Carlton ball carrier, but it happens with monotonous regularity in 2018!
or
Under pressure they eventually bomb the ball to static forwards only to have the opposition defense clear it too easily, the ball carrier then gets labeled a ball waster because no forward has made a genuine effort. I'm not claiming our ball use isn't poor, but the games do not have to go the way they go!
Next time our fans watch Casboult hanging deep in F50 behind a couple of defenders waiting for a jump at the ball they better take note! Watch the replay of the VFL, you see McKay doing the very same thing!
I'm desperate for Kerr to come in and do what he has been doing in the two's, working hard making multiple leads, repeat efforts, creating space, the stuff KPFs are supposed to do!
Not play like rovers hanging out the back sporadically launching at packs!
There was a great moment on Saturday night when Levi used his bulk to clean up an opponent, Levi looked frustrated and Norp looked shocked, even the commentators were caught off guard, but he should be doing that two or three times a game not once or twice a season as a highlight! If he did that more often, if he sacrificed for the team on a consistent basis, kids around him should lift. Levi shouldn't be the beneficiary of such acts, he needs to be the instigator!
When our kids are being bullied and bashed around like they were Saturday night, it's because players like Levi do not play that way, the opponents do not fear him or others in our F50!
Our problem is that it only takes one lazy or stupid player to deliver an advantage to the opposition, and we have a few players who pick and choose when they will make an effort.
Agree SoJ is quite good on the effort front, he works very hard, but his form is rubbish because he not getting anywhere near the ball, he is allowing his running patterns to be determined by his opponent. They are effectively corralling him.
Can't agree with this.
The mids and backs, if they actually win the ball, usualy fluff arounde with the ball laterally for so long that the opposition floods back and there simply isn't the space to lead once theball finally moves inside 50....
Pretty simple - good sides move the ball forward quickly - much more often than not - so that their forwards can compete on a level pegging.
I couldn't really give 2 stuffs about how long the ball takes to get up the ground. Sure, quick ball movement makes it easier, but the forward still have to work, possibly harder.
How many times in the last few weeks have we actually been on a fast break for a midfielder to have to pull up or pass the ball laterally because there was no one in front of him to pass it to?
The forwards need to work hard. If one bloke leads, he will create space where he was prior to the lead. That space is an opportunity for another forward to lead into.
If multiple people lead, then that creates even more space for others to lead into.
God forbid someone might actually follow up a lead with a second lead.
Just heard on radio news that Murphy is out for "several weeks"
Not sure if that's accurate or Not, but I'm getting a bit glum about our shrinking list of available players.
Please help CFC football gods. We have repented our sins. ;)
If multiple people lead, then that creates even more space for others to lead into.
God forbid someone might actually follow up a lead with a second lead.
We are so far from this reality of AFL that it borders on being a satire!
As much as I hate to write it, Jack Riewoldt is the very reason Nthmond can go with the single KPF F50. He works his butt off, lead after lead after lead, most of them go unrewarded.
Other than SoJ and Wright, our guys make one effort, drop their heads and stop if the ball isn't delivered lace out! Some of them commit an even bigger sin, they fingerpoint!
They don't stay stopped, they get back on with it eventually, but by then it's too late! That first act, that moment they hesitate being sorry for themselves is what does all the damage!
Recall that video grab last season of Hodge telling Mitchell not to hesitate, he goes you go, go with your man, when he goes you go! To paraphrase Hodge!
Just heard on radio news that Murphy is out for "several weeks"
Not sure if that's accurate or Not, but I'm getting a bit glum about our shrinking list of available players.
Please help CFC football gods. We have repented our sins. ;)
That was being intimated yesterday LN.
That was being intimated yesterday LN.
The minute he pointed to the arch/instep behind his big toe it was a bad news day, and he's no spring chicken!
The whole blues captain question may well need addressing sooner rather than later .
Speedy recovery Murph.
I couldn't really give 2 stuffs about how long the ball takes to get up the ground. Sure, quick ball movement makes it easier, but the forward still have to work, possibly harder.
How many times in the last few weeks have we actually been on a fast break for a midfielder to have to pull up or pass the ball laterally because there was no one in front of him to pass it to?
The forwards need to work hard. If one bloke leads, he will create space where he was prior to the lead. That space is an opportunity for another forward to lead into.
If multiple people lead, then that creates even more space for others to lead into.
God forbid someone might actually follow up a lead with a second lead.
Therein lies your problem....fix the mids (that includes onballers, flankers and wingers) and the forward line will be fine.....I repeat, you can't lead into space when there is no space! Simple really.
If you reckon speed of ball movement isn't the critical 'missing' factor.... good luck!
Therein lies your problem....fix the mids (that includes onballers, flankers and wingers) and the forward line will be fine.....I repeat, you can't lead into space when there is no space! Simple really.
If you reckon speed of ball movement isn't the critical 'missing' factor.... good luck!
You create space by drawing defenders with repeat leads in the appropriate direction at the appropriate time, not by all too often standing in the forward pocket behind the defense calling for the long high ball and jogging behind the defense as they run out of the scoring zone!
You create space by drawing defenders with repeat leads in the appropriate direction at the appropriate time, not by all too often standing in the forward pocket behind the defense calling for the long high ball and jogging behind the defense as they run out of the scoring zone!
This.
Lazyness... The one word that truly defines 90% of our forwards. They need to make space. Other teams seem to becable to score both on quick movement and slow. Tell thise north forwards ho worked their bitts off the other night, not just expecting the ball, but dragging our defenders with them for someone else to be able to lead into. If the dpace aint there then make it.
Further vidence of our lazy forwards is the ease with which the opposition moves the ball out of our firward 50. Thats a whole other story.
I watched Roughead yesterday, I appreciate he's not typical but the repeat efforts are extraordinary, out and back, left then right, when it looked like he had nothing left to give he often got the advantage, took the contested mark and slotted the goal!
It was inspirational, how KPFs should play!
I also watched the VFL as well, the bloke who worked like Roughead was Kerr, and we kicked it to McKay more often than not as he jogged back waving for the deep kick into F50! Even old man Hill had a work rate showing up McKay, I'd rather Hill lounged in F50 and tell McKay to get on his bike up the field, but Hill won;t do that because he's a professional!
If McKay gets a game and Kerr doesn't, Kerr might as well pack his bags and chuck his hat into trade week, because that sort of team selection would be bullsh1t and send a massively wrong message to the playing group!
No more "Kick it to Me" types lounging in the background for a cheapy, I want six players who are all working for every kick! KPFs who take no prisoners along the way!
Loved Cripps at the weekend, gut running out of the midfield into deep F50 to bust a pack with nothing left in the tank. He didn't get the pill, but that is what our forwards should be doing!
God forbid someone might actually follow up a lead with a second lead.
And God forbid someone might actually hit a leading forward on the chest.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBmPo_quXvU
Harry looks like he can play IMO, can take a mark, good kicking style......ditto Kerr......given we kicked 4 goals vs Nth and have not kicked 100 points since Noah built the Ark tell me what harm does it do in playing them both?
I must pay more attention to our forwards but would not any forward get tired of working their butts off making leads if hardly any of them get honoured? Maybe our problem is six of one and a half-dozen of the other?
Lance Whitnall...fat and slow and no knees but he could teach our forwards a thing or two about finding space.
And God forbid someone might actually hit a leading forward on the chest.
If they don't hit you then you go again though, not sulk!
Lance Whitnall...fat and slow and no knees but he could teach our forwards a thing or two about finding space.
Absolutely. And how to attack the ball.
Absolutely. And how to attack the ball.
...and the drive thru. :-[
If they don't hit you then you go again though, not sulk!
On Saturday night you just stood the mark because your team mate had kicked it straight down your opponent's throat.
I think that it all started when we rookied Carrazzo, he normalised turnovers at the CFC and by the time he retired we'd grown to accept them as standard procedure.
...and the drive thru. :-[
And kick it from outside fifty in the pocket when a goal is needed ;D ;D
Currently travelling the UK didn't see the Collingwood or North games, sounding like it was pretty orinary. And NBs as well. Team line up wil be intersting this week.
On Saturday night you just stood the mark because your team mate had kicked it straight down your opponent's throat.
I think that it all started when we rookied Carrazzo, he normalised turnovers at the CFC and by the time he retired we'd grown to accept them as standard procedure.
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Carrazzo is Italian for turnover! Perhaps a little unfair, I think the rot started with blokes like Scott freeborn and Darren HULME
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Carrazzo is Italian for turnover!
If only he had given away kicking on his natural right foot, his left side was quite good!
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Carrazzo is Italian for turnover! Perhaps a little unfair, I think the rot started with blokes like Scott freeborn and Darren HULME
Someone at the club who shall remain nameless but who was in a position of responsibility at the time once told me that we were getting a gun across from South Australia by the name of Scott Freeborn.
Hulme and Franchina both played 100+ games, in more recent times Armfield played 140 and Casboult is about to notch up 100.
Good luck to them, but it sums up our plight.
I liked Scott freeborn, but one of the worst kicks I’ve ever seen - and injury prone. Loved hulmey, remember he tried to sell his car on the club website, back in the early days of the internet haha ????
let's not forget Ed Curnover :(
Someone at the club who shall remain nameless but who was in a position of responsibility at the time once told me that we were getting a gun across from South Australia by the name of Scott Freeborn.
Hulme and Franchina both played 100+ games, in more recent times Armfield played 140 and Casboult is about to notch up 100.
Good luck to them, but it sums up our plight.
I was a big fan of Darren Hulme, didnt matter the size of the opponent he would take them on and loved a contest, we could do with a few Hulmes in our lineup...
Scott Freeborn was a handy player much like his brother Glenn who was a premiership hero for North but was a erratic kick...got the pubes from memory and that was the end of him at AFL level...
I was a big fan of Darren Hulme, didnt matter the size of the opponent he would take them on and loved a contest, we could do with a few Hulmes in our lineup...
Scott Freeborn was a handy player much like his brother Glenn who was a premiership hero for North but was a erratic kick...got the pubes from memory and that was the end of him at AFL level...
Hulme was never going to win a B+F, but you knew what he was going to give you every week. As you said, we need a few solid types like him.
Hulme was never going to win a B+F, but you knew what he was going to give you every week. As you said, we need a few solid types like him.
For the love of God no!
No more Hulmes, Wiggos, Armies, Benticks, Josephs or any other battlers who butcher the ball as a matter of habit.
Hulme gave the club everything he had, pity his knees were so bad, road trauma level bad.
For the love of God no!
No more Hulmes, Wiggos, Armies, Benticks, Josephs or any other battlers who butcher the ball as a matter of habit.
We have plenty of pretty boys who butcher the ball currently.....and they can't tackle either.
You don't want 22 Hulmes....and you don't want zero. There is a balance there and we are currently lacking.