Carlton Supporters Club

Do your best (or worst).

I'll take that...Much improved effort and at this stage that's all we can ask for. :D

A lot less passengers this week. Cripps, Fisher and Daisy were incredible. Simmo fantastic as always, and 4 goals from big Harry, i’ll take that.

Pretty decent result, could've/shoud've won. Red time goals cost us the game, especially that 3 late in the 3rd qtr.

Swan McKay and Casboult 6 between them, especially the 4 to McKay. 3 games, 7 goals to McKay now, remembering his 2nd game last year he was rendered pretty useless after qtr time with turf toe. We have a player there who may be about to break out.

It was the improved effort,  tackling efficiency and system that I liked.   Defence looked better organised as well.

Cripps exceptional
Liked O'Briens game
Fisher good
McKay... the future
Phillips gave us a bit in the ruck too against big odds
Kudos to Thomas
Jones 16 1% ...his best game of the year...benefited from Rowe's presence

We do need to address red time goals, that's important. Cost us the game, no doubt in my mind.

Seen some of the future today. That was very encouraging.

Hey Cripper, don’t bother to write an essay as to why you should be captain.....just show us!!  TICK✔️✔️✔️✔️

Crippa led this very inexperienced team to the very end. Few passengers today. Our intend and defensive effort and tackling was everything I hoped for. Where was that before?
We had a decent spread of leadership. That was very encouraging. It gave our youngsters some great learning.
On paper we should have got smashed. Apart from a few, our boys really dug deep against the side sitting on top of the ladder.
Congratulations to the boys and coaches.

Media alert to those scrutinizing big H. Shutup ;D

Not too many players i'm disappointed with after that effort....but i'll mention them here as its easier than mentioning the ones who did well.

Jed Lamb. About halfway through the 3rd quarter i was wondering if i missed a late out, because i don't think i'd seen him up to that point. Was better in the last, but where was he before then?

Plowman i'm a huge fan of, but he made at least 2 huge mistakes that we can't afford to make. He is still young in his AFL career, but i thought he'd passed that by now.

OShea...don't really see it with him. Not sure if his best work is done off the ball or what, but he doesn't seem to do a whole lot in the moment. Fumbley, clumsy and pedestrian.

Mullett...one of his better games, but i'm still not sure of his place in the side. Kicking is good, he attempts harder kicks because of his ability and sometimes they blow up in his face, but still lacking in influence in the games. Just keeping the chair warm for Doc i think.

...and thats about it i think. Everyone else either competed, or showed improvement. Far from perfect, but you give me effort and i'll shutup.

...and thats about it i think. Everyone else either competed, or showed improvement. Far from perfect, but you give me effort and i'll shutup.

Yep
That's all we ask!

Carlton v. West Coast
Carlton, P. Cripps, 1 vote
Carlton, P. Cripps, 2 votes
Carlton ... <PAUSE> ... P. Cripps, 3 votes

Not too many players i'm disappointed with after that effort....but i'll mention them here as its easier than mentioning the ones who did well.

Jed Lamb. About halfway through the 3rd quarter i was wondering if i missed a late out, because i don't think i'd seen him up to that point. Was better in the last, but where was he before then?

Plowman i'm a huge fan of, but he made at least 2 huge mistakes that we can't afford to make. He is still young in his AFL career, but i thought he'd passed that by now.

OShea...don't really see it with him. Not sure if his best work is done off the ball or what, but he doesn't seem to do a whole lot in the moment. Fumbley, clumsy and pedestrian.

Mullett...one of his better games, but i'm still not sure of his place in the side. Kicking is good, he attempts harder kicks because of his ability and sometimes they blow up in his face, but still lacking in influence in the games. Just keeping the chair warm for Doc i think.

...and thats about it i think. Everyone else either competed, or showed improvement. Far from perfect, but you give me effort and i'll shutup.

Kruddler Barassi..lol.

Not too many players i'm disappointed with after that effort....but i'll mention them here as its easier than mentioning the ones who did well.

Jed Lamb. About halfway through the 3rd quarter i was wondering if i missed a late out, because i don't think i'd seen him up to that point. Was better in the last, but where was he before then?

Plowman i'm a huge fan of, but he made at least 2 huge mistakes that we can't afford to make. He is still young in his AFL career, but i thought he'd passed that by now.

OShea...don't really see it with him. Not sure if his best work is done off the ball or what, but he doesn't seem to do a whole lot in the moment. Fumbley, clumsy and pedestrian.

Mullett...one of his better games, but i'm still not sure of his place in the side. Kicking is good, he attempts harder kicks because of his ability and sometimes they blow up in his face, but still lacking in influence in the games. Just keeping the chair warm for Doc i think.

...and thats about it i think. Everyone else either competed, or showed improvement. Far from perfect, but you give me effort and i'll shutup.

Great summary Kruddler. Spot on IMO.
The other players I thought were a bit quiet or at least patchy, were Samo and Garlett. Both WA boys, may be suffering the loss of fellow Freo player.

Not too many players i'm disappointed with after that effort....but i'll mention them here as its easier than mentioning the ones who did well.

Jed Lamb. About halfway through the 3rd quarter i was wondering if i missed a late out, because i don't think i'd seen him up to that point. Was better in the last, but where was he before then?

Plowman i'm a huge fan of, but he made at least 2 huge mistakes that we can't afford to make. He is still young in his AFL career, but i thought he'd passed that by now.

OShea...don't really see it with him. Not sure if his best work is done off the ball or what, but he doesn't seem to do a whole lot in the moment. Fumbley, clumsy and pedestrian.

Mullett...one of his better games, but i'm still not sure of his place in the side. Kicking is good, he attempts harder kicks because of his ability and sometimes they blow up in his face, but still lacking in influence in the games. Just keeping the chair warm for Doc i think.

...and thats about it i think. Everyone else either competed, or showed improvement. Far from perfect, but you give me effort and i'll shutup.

Garlett??

I queried his diminutive size when drafted but Fisher has proved to be an astute selection.

A much improved team effort but we'd kill for a decent small forward or two.
Plenty to like about some of the kids, top games from Cripps, Thomas and Jones.
Roll on next week, we'll win one soon enough.

Great summary Kruddler. Spot on IMO.
The other players I thought were a bit quiet or at least patchy, were Samo and Garlett. Both WA boys, may be suffering the loss of fellow Freo player.

Those 2, along with SOSOS were far from brilliant performances, but i don't think any of them dropped there head and stopped working. Garlett only had 5 touches, but 3 tackles to go with it.

You can't always get the ball, but you can always give effort on defense.

Could only watch on tv so can't really tell what's going on but our effort/workrate seemed much better than the last two weeks, weren't consistently outnumbered at contests, and we seemed much better with our tackiling, so I'm happy with that. Basic skills errors cost us, but so be it. Excellent signs from Dow and O'Brien. Cripps was awesome, again. McKay may end up being a player, and Fisher continues to impress every week. Good signs, but a lot of work still to do

A much improved team effort but we'd kill for a decent small forward or two.
Plenty to like about some of the kids, top games from Cripps, Thomas and Jones.
Roll on next week, we'll win one soon enough.

Can we ask for Betts and Garlett back?...lol.

I was happy with our overall performance which was in line with our development journey and included a lot of good stuff from our younger brigade. The highlight without doubt was the inspirational performance from Cripps, displaying the kind of leadership we are crying out for   - magnificent. I actually thought in one mad moment we might pinch it. A good morale booster despite it being a loss.

Plowman's last 2 weeks have been ordinary - he's a much better player than that.

Can we ask for Betts and Garlett back?...lol.

Garlett (our current Garlett) looks good at times but then does something inexplicably bad, hopefully he'll get better with experience.
Silvagni looks good but simply doesn't get enough of the ball, Lamb is pretty average.
Matty Wright is the pick of them but he's nothing special either.
I was rapt to see McKay hit the scoreboard, it might be just the confidence boost that he needs.

Pickett would help

Before commenting on the game just have to say I like anyone else at the game today witnessed the man who just HAS to be our leader from next year.

Haven’t seen a captains display like I saw today since Judd was at his peak.

Cripps willed himself on every contest, was inspirational, an absolute bull in tight who WC just couldn’t stop and then when he didn’t have the ball made his 11 tackles hurt the opposition.

He imposed himself every time the ball was in sight, and did everything in his power to get us the win.

Hate losing but he made me proud to be blues fan today. 

Disappointed....we didnt win the game, WC are average IMO and we got robbed by the umpires many times.....Bolton should have played Mckay sooner, his presence makes us look better and more dangerous and the kid can kick straight, Bolton has plenty of cliches but not much common sense.
Cripps led from the front and was BOG IMO, credit to Philips, did well vs NitWit and deserves to keep his place when MK comes back, Jones was next best to Cripps as our best player and I think Rowe had a lot to do with that. Fisher as suggested by others is a fine player and will serve us well in a Kade Simpson manner....
Plowman had a shocker and needs to improve, OShea's kicking and awareness were not great and he needs to lift, Kerridge was handy..

Samo and Garlett were not great but both are still learning.....
Bit of praise for Dale Thomas who backed up a good game last week with another good one this week and got unlucky with one free kick to Lecras...umpiring as I said was very poor. Matty Wright was handy after a poor game last week and CharlieC was also ok at times....
Hope we can build on this game and beat the Bulldogs next week, we dont need a relapse back to the form we showed in the North game..

Garlett (our current Garlett) looks good at times but then does something inexplicably bad, hopefully he'll get better with experience.
Silvagni looks good but simply doesn't get enough of the ball, Lamb is pretty average.
Matty Wright is the pick of them but he's nothing special either.
I was rapt to see McKay hit the scoreboard, it might be just the confidence boost that he needs.

Yes, SOS has to get a bit of the ball or hit the scoreboard more with the possessions he gets. In a good side he could be a dangerous 3rd tall but struggles in our side.

Matty Wright is what we call a handy player. Nothing special but nothing too bad either.

McKay, 7 goals in 3 games, or essentially 2 1/2 games. There's the future and will eventually replace Casboult by next year, Levi's handy, held the fort well when needed for a few years, but we know his limitations. Need him now to support McKay as he develops further, then McKay takes over his role.

Yes, SOS has to get a bit of the ball or hit the scoreboard more with the possessions he gets. In a good side he could be a dangerous 3rd tall but struggles in our side.

Matty Wright is what we call a handy player. Nothing special but nothing too bad either.

McKay, 7 goals in 3 games, or essentially 2 1/2 games. There's the future and will eventually replace Casboult by next year, Levi's handy, held the fort well when needed for a few years, but we know his limitations. Need him now to support McKay as he develops further, then McKay takes over his role.

It will be a tremendous load off for all Carlton supporters if McKay can build on what he showed today and become a reliable key forward in time.
We should get another high draft pick this year which will probably be another classy midfielder, so that part of the puzzle should be getting closer to being solved, and our back 6 will be fine in a couple of years.
It's scoring that will be an ongoing problem, even if McKay measures up we might need to poach a small forward or two.

I know Garlett hasn’t played a lot of footy but his lack of defensive pressure is appauling.

Watched him closely today and he is a lazy footballer who hates physical contact.

He better build an amazing offensive game or won’t make it.

Fisher on the other hand shows all the signs of a A grade 10 year plus footballer. He proves you don’t have to be big to make your tackles stick.

Bolton: "I'm glad I succumbed to the pressure to play McKay"...lol.

I was disappointed with the result but not really surprised; Wet Toast are on top of the live ladder, have an impressive list and are well coached.  However, consistent umpiring could have seen us in with chance.

For me, today was a glimpse of the future with Harry McKay booting 4 goals, Patrick Cripps playing a great captain’s game (after an unimpressive effort last game) and Charlie Curnow, Fisher, Dow, O’Brien, Samo, SOJ and Garlett all contributing. Phillips did OK too.

Jones was back to his best and Rowe did well for an underdone key defender (who was it who said we had too many tall defenders? ???? )

Last of all, I want to acknowledge Bolts who showed that he is head and shoulders above the so-called footy experts (how does Jonathan Brown get to criticise someone’s expression?) and can get the most out of a young, inexperienced list.

There’s a long way to go but at least we’re on the right track.

I'm stoked to be proven wrong. I thought we'd get smashed.  ::)
Can't say enough about the leadership shown tonight. Our backs looked organized. Holding WC with the addition of Kennedy to <100 is a 2018 achievement I'm happy to take.
Crippa led our young mids in a Judd-like manner. Even our forward line looked organized. I loved big Harry's performance supported by Levi, who threw his weight around nicely. Phillips did a great job against the league's best.
Great team effort. If that's what we stand for - count me in.

Sigh, .... Didn't see or hear any of the game but it sounds like we've saved all our best efforts for a team we shouldn't be able to beat rather than the the ones we should. Very frustrating.  :(

I was disappointed with the result but not really surprised; Wet Toast are on top of the live ladder, have an impressive list and are well coached.  However, consistent umpiring could have seen us in with chance.

For me, today was a glimpse of the future with Harry McKay booting 4 goals, Patrick Cripps playing a great captain’s game (after an unimpressive effort last game) and Charlie Curnow, Fisher, Dow, O’Brien, Samo, SOJ and Garlett all contributing. Phillips did OK too.

Jones was back to his best and Rowe did well for an underdone key defender (who was it who said we had too many tall defenders? ???? )

Last of all, I want to acknowledge Bolts who showed that he is head and shoulders above the so-called footy experts (how does Jonathan Brown get to criticise someone’s expression?) and can get the most out of a young, inexperienced list.

There’s a long way to go but at least we’re on the right track.

Going back to they style we know best helped. We may have tried to take it a step too far the way we tried to alter our game plan.

Lot better effort ????

How often do you see top 3 players in a game from the team who came 2nd?
Great effort.

Going back to they style we know best helped. We may have tried to take it a step too far the way we tried to alter our game plan.

It looks like that's exactly what we did. It's a long road we're on and we will make mistakes but it looks like we've got back on track.

How often do you see top 3 players in a game from the team who came 2nd?
Great effort.

Yes, Eagles only played 20 min good footy, all in red time of qtrs.

Plowman's last 2 weeks have been ordinary - he's a much better player than that.

Agree to disagree......no poise whatsoever, absolute panic-merchant, makes bad decisions & his disposal is fair at best. How he got picked @ #3 in any draft, words fail me. Just a plodder at best, give me a fix Alex Silvagni over that spud any day of the week.

Coulda been worse, Go Blues

Agree to disagree......no poise whatsoever, absolute panic-merchant, makes bad decisions & his disposal is fair at best. How he got picked @ #3 in any draft, words fail me. Just a plodder at best, give me a fix Alex Silvagni over that spud any day of the week.

Yes, I noticed you've had him in your gun sights the last few weeks. He finished 7th in our B+F last year, which I accept doesn't mean much to some folks.

At any rate, I've seen him play some very good games.

And I'm a big Alex Silvagni fan.

Yes, Eagles only played 20 min good footy, all in red time of qtrs.

Indeed. Q1,2,3. To our credit (although game was won) we took the red time honors Q4.
Lots of very encouraging signs.
Looked to me like Our boys came to play tonight, and did so leading by example. It started with Jonesy's clean spoils. He's the master of 1%

Going back to they style we know best helped. We may have tried to take it a step too far the way we tried to alter our game plan.

100% spot on, the change in gameplan was clearly obvious.....it may not net us many goals, but geez it limits what the opposition can achieve on the scoreboard. Liam Jones is clearly comfortable with it....a much more accountable game from him.

Lots of positives for a nice change, but O’Shea, Garlett & Plowman yet again failed dismally. 5 mins in the 3rd quarter cost us, but geez some of the decisions our blokes make at times.....the mind boggles @ how plain dumb some of their decisions are ????

Yes, I noticed you've had him in your gun sights the last few weeks. He finished 7th in our B+F last year, which I accept doesn't mean much to some folks.

At any rate, I've seen him play some very good games.

Shows you how well we’ve been travelling if he can finish in the top 10 of a B&F......

100% spot on, the change in gameplan was clearly obvious.....it may not net us many goals, but geez it limits what the opposition can achieve on the scoreboard. Liam Jones is clearly comfortable with it....a much more accountable game from him.

Lots of positives for a nice change, but O’Shea, Garlett & Plowman yet again failed dismally. 5 mins in the 3rd quarter cost us, but geez some of the decisions our blokes make at times.....the mind boggles @ how plain dumb some of their decisions are ????

They were certainly our weakest links today imo.

Btw, I'm normally critical of Kerridge but today I thought his game was OK - certainly better and more solid than when I last saw him play seniors.

Shows you how well we’ve been travelling if he can finish in the top 10 of a B&F......

5th Simpson (103 votes)
6th Wright (96 votes)
7th Plowman (95 votes)

Credit where credit is due. He finished only 8 votes behind simpson and played 1 less game.

You going to bag out Simmo to help your argument or are you going to concede that Plowman isn't as bad as you suggest?

I queried his diminutive size when drafted but Fisher has proved to be an astute selection.

Dow will be the same, the little blokes who do well against bigger bodies.

btw., Dow must have had at least half-a-dozen clearances today!

Watch McKay's second goal.  His mark was from a beautifully delivered ball from Fisher,  off one step in congestion.

Agree to disagree......no poise whatsoever, absolute panic-merchant, makes bad decisions & his disposal is fair at best. How he got picked @ #3 in any draft, words fail me. Just a plodder at best, give me a fix Alex Silvagni over that spud any day of the week.

Plowman has been average all year IMO, looks disinterested at times......Alex Silvagni gives us some grunt but is at the end of his career, as is Rowe but we look better when they are playing and giving guidance.
Rowe was good today and freed Jones up from the stress of JK but thats a short term strategy, dare I say that Weitering out also made us look more composed down back....bad enough with Plowman out of  form, and  OShea kicking the ball straight back to the opposition, but if we added Weitering to the mix we might have lost by a lot more.
Thomas has added some experience down back and Mullet wasnt anything special but I didnt notice him stuffing up as much in the past and he did hit a few targets...

Haven't seen or heard the game, but from all accounts positive besides the loss. Love your thoughts on.    Did Jones regain his for partly from having Rowe back, bigger bodied defender? Daisy again had good numbers how was his game? Dow seems to be doing well early, but faded? cheers

I was disappointed with the result but not really surprised; Wet Toast are on top of the live ladder, have an impressive list and are well coached.  However, consistent umpiring could have seen us in with chance.

For me, today was a glimpse of the future with Harry McKay booting 4 goals, Patrick Cripps playing a great captain’s game (after an unimpressive effort last game) and Charlie Curnow, Fisher, Dow, O’Brien, Samo, SOJ and Garlett all contributing. Phillips did OK too.

Jones was back to his best and Rowe did well for an underdone key defender (who was it who said we had too many tall defenders? ???? )

Last of all, I want to acknowledge Bolts who showed that he is head and shoulders above the so-called footy experts (how does Jonathan Brown get to criticise someone’s expression?) and can get the most out of a young, inexperienced list.

There’s a long way to go but at least we’re on the right track.

^^^^^^ all of the above.

Good post DJC. Says it all for me.

Very good effort from a young and inexperienced group.

Stick fat. We are on the way.

Umpiring was atrocious again. Umpire 32 killed us! As far as the game, Big H was right in front of me when he kicked the banana. Get excited blue baggers. I think we were witnes to the start of something special. SOJ looked out of sorts, lost at times. I’m afraid he won’t make it. LOB played ok, still a little nervous when kicking. Simon and Rowe were solid. Plowman has a shocker but he made an effort every time. He does have a resting bitch face though lol.
Dow, starting to make his mark but needs to build his tank. I am sick and tired of SPS pulling out of contests and going for the soft gets. Showed glimpses of brilliance but I don’t think we’ve found the right spot for him. O’Shea and mullet should play in the 2s and help develop the younger kids. Daisy was outstanding again. I felt for him, Lycett flattened him and the fella got back up and straight into the contest. Can’t doubt daisy’s Courage and heart. If I was Bolton I’d be replaying that for the team all week.
Cripps was a beast! Murphy has to resign the captaincy.... no need to wait.

Before commenting on the game just have to say I like anyone else at the game today witnessed the man who just HAS to be our leader from next year.

Haven’t seen a captains display like I saw today since Judd was at his peak.

Cripps willed himself on every contest, was inspirational, an absolute bull in tight who WC just couldn’t stop and then when he didn’t have the ball made his 11 tackles hurt the opposition.

He imposed himself every time the ball was in sight, and did everything in his power to get us the win.

Hate losing but he made me proud to be blues fan today.

Couldn’t agree more.
How some people think what Murphy dishes up is the stuff of a leader is laughable.
The fact that they didn’t appoint Cripps captain makes me very concerned. Far too conservative

Great to see the improvement and some fight in the players this week. I'd suggest that if we'd brought that readiness and intensity to the last three games against GC, Pies and North we might have won one or two games by now.

Do we have a shot against the Dogs next week?

Let's concentrate on dishing up consistent efforts week to week first,  wins will come if we do that.

Great to see the improvement and some fight in the players this week. I'd suggest that if we'd brought that readiness and intensity to the last three games against GC, Pies and North we might have won one or two games by now.

Do we have a shot against the Dogs next week?

Depends which Carlton turns up.
Look, it's difficult for young blokes to maintain a consistency of effort but some of the poor efforts of previous weeks were put into perspective by yesterday's performance.
That's the minimum standard.
One of the things that help maintain that effort is the support around you and working for each other.
The addition of some more mature bodies like Rowe, Kerridge and Phillips no doubt helped draw the attention away from others.
These guys aren't superstars but they give an honest effort.
In fact, in some respects Phillips' first contest set the standard.

Just watching some highlights as I missed part of the game. we literally gave away a few goals through charitable donations. No doubt we should've won, just have to tidy up some areas and finish off qtrs. 8 out of their 10 goals came in time-on.

Essentially West Coast didn't "win" it, we lost it.

Things may change in the future, but at this point, Cripps as captain would be more akin to a "people's choice" award IMO. We judge him as spectators and fans, we see contest after contest, tackle after tackle, we get inspired, therefore we think he should be captain. I would imagine there's more to it than that, and I imagine the club would have processes in place to select the best candidate.

Bolton worked with arguably the best captain of the last 20 years at Hawthorn (equal with Voss IMO), so I reckon he would know a thing or two about what makes a good captain.

Cripps exceptional
Liked O'Briens game
Fisher good
McKay... the future
Phillips gave us a bit in the ruck too against big odds
Kudos to Thomas
Jones 16 1% ...his best game of the year...benefited from Rowe's presence

Rowe was the missing piece (or Alex Silvagni): it stops Jones being played on the wrong sort of opponent. It allowed Jones to play his game more and he did it very well.

Rowe was the missing piece (or Alex Silvagni): it stops Jones being played on the wrong sort of opponent. It allowed Jones to play his game more and he did it very well.

Jones is better at that game than Marchbank, I believe when Marchbank is fit he should replace someone like Lamb rather than come back into defence.

Also in addition to Rowe, a big effect yesterday was the physical presence of Kerridge around packs and stoppages. You can see the effect it had on kids like Dow and O'Brien.

I agree Cripps should be captain. Murphy just isn't a captain.

Phillips was really good yesterday and hopefully we leave MK out until he's 100% fit.

Kerridge was surprisingly good. Way better than Graham the week before.

Plowman had probably his worst game for the club as did SPS who looks down on fitness. Between those 2 they almost lost the game for us.

Harry cost us a couple of easy goals early but after that was really good off not a lot of service. This game takes so much pressure off him and the selectors who can now justify leaving him in the team for an extended run... massive.

Fisher was my highlight though. This was his best game for the club. Love watching - 20kg kid who's just too smart for his opponents. Another great pick at #25.

We desperately need Marchbank, Doc, ASOS, Williamson, Byrne back. The backline as a unit is non existent because we have to make 2 changes every week... and make do with guys who are out of form or rushed back like Rowe.

Plowman has been average all year IMO, looks disinterested at times......Alex Silvagni gives us some grunt but is at the end of his career, as is Rowe but we look better when they are playing and giving guidance.
Rowe was good today and freed Jones up from the stress of JK but thats a short term strategy, dare I say that Weitering out also made us look more composed down back....bad enough with Plowman out of  form, and  OShea kicking the ball straight back to the opposition, but if we added Weitering to the mix we might have lost by a lot more.
Thomas has added some experience down back and Mullet wasnt anything special but I didnt notice him stuffing up as much in the past and he did hit a few targets...

One of the big negatives of this year has been Plowman's lack of form. Last year he was very good and deserved his spot in the top 10. This year he has struggled for form, and his opponents have managed some cheap goals as a result.
I'd like to be able to give him time in the VFL. but his replacements are not fit. Otherwise they would be playing instead of O'Shea and Mullett.
When Plowman regains his form he will be integral to our defence, as he can take so many different types of opponent. He did tight roles on a lot of dangerous players last year and did them effectively. We really miss that at the moment.
He is working hard, but he is making mistakes and hasn't got his touch, otherwise he wouldn't have dropped marks he would usually swallow.

Of his potential replacements, Williamson is still a few weeks off and needs to some in the VFL to get his touch, not having played this year as yet. Byrne has his quad injury. Then he needs time to regain his touch and awareness, something he was missing early this season. McReadie: not sure where he is at just at the moment. He has the tools, but he needs work.

One of the big negatives of this year has been Plowman's lack of form. Last year he was very good and deserved his spot in the top 10. This year he has struggled for form, and his opponents have managed some cheap goals as a result.
I'd like to be able to give him time in the VFL. but his replacements are not fit. Otherwise they would be playing instead of O'Shea and Mullett.
When Plowman regains his form he will be integral to our defence, as he can take so many different types of opponent. He did tight roles on a lot of dangerous players last year and did them effectively. We really miss that at the moment.
He is working hard, but he is making mistakes and hasn't got his touch, otherwise he wouldn't have dropped marks he would usually swallow.

Of his potential replacements, Williamson is still a few weeks off and needs to some in the VFL to get his touch, not having played this year as yet. Byrne has his quad injury. Then he needs time to regain his touch and awareness, something he was missing early this season. McReadie: not sure where he is at just at the moment. He has the tools, but he needs work.

I reckon he's been asked to fill Docs shoes somewhat and that is no easy task.

Reckon he'll automatically 'get better' once Doc is in the team.

I reckon he's been asked to fill Docs shoes somewhat and that is no easy task.

Reckon he'll automatically 'get better' once Doc is in the team.

O'Shea looked flaky under the high ball yesterday, that made the whole defence nervous and jumpy on the repeat entries Wet Toast generated, if Weitering had been in as the other intercept marking player Plowman and the others would have been more sure of themselves.

I reckon he's been asked to fill Docs shoes somewhat and that is no easy task.

Reckon he'll automatically 'get better' once Doc is in the team.

I'm inclined to agree. Whether he has been told, or whether he is taking it one himself, he is trying to be more than he ca handle at the moment. Having Docherty back in the team allows him more freedom of action, not to mention gives him confidence.

Might have been premature to appoint Cripps over Murphy as captain in 2018.  Certainly not next year though,  With Marc sidelined for what appears to be a long period, let Pat takeover now and see what he does

I'm reasonably happy with that, McKay looked like an AFL footballer and I put Paddy Dow in my votes, 7 clearances was one short of Cripps and second highest in the game.
Not bad for a kid in his fifth game, a couple of green shoots at last!

I'm inclined to agree. Whether he has been told, or whether he is taking it one himself, he is trying to be more than he ca handle at the moment. Having Docherty back in the team allows him more freedom of action, not to mention gives him confidence.

Agree I think they are missing Doch back there more than we thought, everyone is now being asked to help each other and they are realising how much Doch covered them. Hopefully its a blessing in disguise so when he comes back they are all better for the experience and we are better as a unit back there.

I'm reasonably happy with that, McKay looked like an AFL footballer and I put Paddy Dow in my votes, 7 clearances was one short of Cripps and second highest in the game.
Not bad for a kid in his fifth game, a couple of green shoots at last!

I think that's the main thing, 4 goals makes it seem like a great game but I was there and he was pretty average. But he needs anything he can get to build some confidence and momentum in his game. I think we nailed it with Dow, looks really solid every week he is going to be a gun for us. Quitely impressed with O'Brien also think he has something.

Agree I think they are missing Doch back there more than we thought, everyone is now being asked to help each other and they are realising how much Doch covered them. Hopefully its a blessing in disguise so when he comes back they are all better for the experience and we are better as a unit back there.

Correct. While we are not a contender, I think that forcing the young guys to think more about different facets of the game is not a bad thing. Also, Kerridge is an important part of the current midfield. Just turn away when he goes to kick, but watch carefully when the heat is on.

I think that's the main thing, 4 goals makes it seem like a great game but I was there and he was pretty average. But he needs anything he can get to build some confidence and momentum in his game. ..................

I'm always interested in hearing from folks who attend the game, so I'm curious to know why you thought his game was average ?

Cam O'Shea had 10 possessions - 8 of them clangers. I don't know if a player in double figures for disposals has ever had a 80% clanger rate before or will again. That is remarkable. I can't see how we can keep him in the team based on that alone. Experienced player too.

"A glimpse into the future," BB said, along with others. Couldn't agree more.

(Also, so pleased to see us playing our hard defensive game again. With better talent carrying out this game plan the goals will come by evolution, rather than trying to force this group to score more and play a more attractive brand of footy -- FO AFL, our gals were instructed to be less defensive and it fkd them for their season (plus some behind the scenes bullshizen). We should play OUR game on Thursday/Friday nights, fck the critics (and every other time, too, of course).

And our future looks bright. Of the younger blokes, loved: ZF - what a bloody little ripper he is, Cripps - LEADER, H (yes, my hand is up as one of those who was wrong re wanting to see more from him in the magoos), Paddy Wow, O'Brien (another beauty here) and of course, Charles of Curnow.

Of the older blokes, loved the games of: Simpson, Rowe (welcome back big fella, really gave our backline stability, leadership and some much needed mongrel), Jones, Phillips (great job) and Thomas.

A lot of good, serviceable games from other blokes except, Garlett & O'shea & perhaps Lamb. Mullett and Kerridge did their jobs.

And worried about SOJ, SPS and Plowman.

I'm always interested in hearing from folks who attend the game, so I'm curious to know why you thought his game was average ?

Was at the game yesterday and am inclined to agree, Harry's 4 goal haul was impressive in that he took his chances and kicked beautifully. What was missing and will no doubt come is him providing a dominant presence crashing packs and demanding the ball. Not there yet but has natural ability, that banana kick for goal No 3 was sublime. His development this year will be fun to watch.

Cam O'Shea had 10 possessions - 8 of them clangers. I don't know if a player in double figures for disposals has ever had a 80% clanger rate before or will again. That is remarkable. I can't see how we can keep him in the team based on that alone. Experienced player too.

OShea got the boot from Port for poor disposal, looked like he had fixed that in the NB's but just goes to show the extra pressure of senior footy exposes those weak points of your game and I agree about his place in the team but I think with Marchbank out he will remain in the team...

Was at the game yesterday and am inclined to agree, Harry's 4 goal haul was impressive in that he took his chances and kicked beautifully. What was missing and will no doubt come is him providing a dominant presence crashing packs and demanding the ball. Not there yet but has natural ability, that banana kick for goal No 3 was sublime. His development this year will be fun to watch.

He hits packs hard in the VFL. His contested marking there is very good. Good thing with Levi there is he can take alot of the contested marking and do alot of pack crashing while McKay develops

He hits packs hard in the VFL. His contested marking there is very good. Good thing with Levi there is he can take alot of the contested marking and do alot of pack crashing while McKay develops

I have no doubt it will come and I'm not being critical of yesterday's performance, just stating there is a lot more to come from big H.

Was at the game yesterday and am inclined to agree, Harry's 4 goal haul was impressive in that he took his chances and kicked beautifully. What was missing and will no doubt come is him providing a dominant presence crashing packs and demanding the ball. Not there yet but has natural ability, that banana kick for goal No 3 was sublime. His development this year will be fun to watch.

Thanks SB. Did you notice anything that made you worried (apart from as stated above) ? e.g dropping his head, giving up a chase etc.

Harry isnt a Jonathon Brown crash/spread the pack type, he will only get injured, he needs to lead or be the bloke dropping back and taking the mark at the back of the pack type of player. Levi is the pack crasher ande maybe Patrick Kerr down the track....

Thanks SB. Did you notice anything that made you worried (apart from as stated above) ? e.g dropping his head, giving up a chase etc.

No mate, nothing like that but it is hard to keep track of these guys when following the ball. He did spend time on the bench as we rotated our bigger blokes and while kicked 4 goals it felt lie it cam from 2 x separate cameos rather than a dominant performance, I love the way he moves and he just looks like he knows how to play. He also said in his after game interview that the intensity at AFL level meas you can't have any mental lapses as you will get punished, sounded  like a reference to an area in his game he needs to work on.

Harry isnt a Jonathon Brown crash/spread the pack type, he will only get injured, he needs to lead or be the bloke dropping back and taking the mark at the back of the pack type of player. Levi is the pack crasher ande maybe Patrick Kerr down the track....

Probably true, but he is a big lad and in time will have an impact at the contest, just needs to be allowed to develop.

No mate, nothing like that but it is hard to keep track of these guys when following the ball. He did spend time on the bench as we rotated our bigger blokes and while kicked 4 goals it felt lie it cam from 2 x separate cameos rather than a dominant performance, I love the way he moves and he just looks like he knows how to play. He also said in his after game interview that the intensity at AFL level meas you can't have any mental lapses as you will get punished, sounded  like a reference to an area in his game he needs to work on.

Thanks matey. Appreciate your thoughts.

Harry almost disappeared for large periods is the only concern.

I think given where we are at we are carrying a few players who aren't giving us 4 quarters.

That's ok but we won't win many games doing that.

Harry almost disappeared for large periods is the only concern.

I think given where we are at we are carrying a few players who aren't giving us 4 quarters.

That's ok but we won't win many games doing that.

Playing as a young key forward in a team getting hammered for large periods will do that.

Cam O'Shea had 10 possessions - 8 of them clangers. I don't know if a player in double figures for disposals has ever had a 80% clanger rate before or will again. That is remarkable. I can't see how we can keep him in the team based on that alone. Experienced player too.

Yeah, spot o  jeza.
O'Shea gifting WC turnovers and Plowman missing a couple of sitters was enough to lose momentum and the game. Not saying it's ever that simple but ..... could should would
I agree with others regarding Plowman's dip in form. It's clear the gap left by Doc will be difficult to manage. Particularly given injuries to Rowe (initially), Marchy, Willo, Byrne, ACOS, and Weiters .  I think this has had a flow on effect to our backline, resulting in the disorganization and high scores against we've seen.

I'll say again- little Zac is growing quarter by quarter. He already punches well above his weight. It's his ability to recover and go again while sustaining full focus on the specific contest and the game. This allows him to resurface, make good decisions, and hit a target. Speaks volumes about his aerobic capacity and footy brain. Future B & F material IMO. Hopefully his mate Samo will hit some form soon. Although small they will become pests to their opponents.

O'Brein had a good impact on the game as did Dow. We saw glimpses of why they were drafted. Clearance work and bursting from packs + outside endurance, run, and quality disposal. Looking forward to watching the youngsters develop together, despite the inevitable L tally.

Yeah, spot o  jeza.
O'Shea gifting WC turnovers and Plowman missing a couple of sitters was enough to lose momentum and the game. Not saying it's ever that simple but ..... could should would
I agree with others regarding Plowman's dip in form. It's clear the gap left by Doc will be difficult to manage. Particularly given injuries to Rowe (initially), Marchy, Willo, Byrne, ACOS, and Weiters .  I think this has had a flow on effect to our backline, resulting in the disorganization and high scores against we've seen.

I'll say again- little Zac is growing quarter by quarter. He already punches well above his weight. It's his ability to recover and go again while sustaining full focus on the specific contest and the game. This allows him to resurface, make good decisions, and hit a target. Speaks volumes about his aerobic capacity and footy brain. Future B & F material IMO. Hopefully his mate Samo will hit some form soon. Although small they will become pests to their opponents.

O'Brein had a good impact on the game as did Dow. We saw glimpses of why they were drafted. Clearance work and bursting from packs + outside endurance, run, and quality disposal. Looking forward to watching the youngsters develop together, despite the inevitable L tally.

Fisher is a real footballer and makes good decisions...Samo needs to learn from Fisher about application and attacking every contest, he is just choosing when to go at the minute...
OBrien is more composed with the ball than Paddy, the latter tends to waste the footy but does contest well and is learning when to run and where the footy is going....both going ok IMO and just need more games. The problem comes when Cripps is held and the likes of Dow have to try and step up and fill the gap, not Dows fault but we need more from the likes of Kennedy when fit, Kerridge etc...

Fisher is a real footballer and makes good decisions...Samo needs to learn from Fisher about application and attacking every contest, he is just choosing when to go at the minute...
OBrien is more composed with the ball than Paddy, the latter tends to waste the footy but does contest well and is learning when to run and where the footy is going....both going ok IMO and just need more games. The problem comes when Cripps is held and the likes of Dow have to try and step up and fill the gap, not Dows fault but we need more from the likes of Kennedy when fit, Kerridge etc...

Absolutely! SPS can be so good, but he needs to put in all of the time. And a few more fit in that box.

Maybe, O'Brien is, but I think that Dow just needs to learn how to deal with the extra physical pressure. He is used to breaking tackles and kicking in the clear. He needs to up his reflexes and work on the decision making. For that matter Byrne could do with some of the same, as he also tends to take off before he thinks and run into brick walls.

H will be the Rising Star this week.

Saw bits and pieces on TV.  A couple of bits that I liked - Dow had the footy and Rioli lined him. Dow rode the tackle and Rioli went down.

In the first(?) qtr, McKay tired to kick a bit round the corner to Casboult and ended up out of bounds - Derm, mentioned that with a bit more experience, there was a sidestep and easy pass.  Late in the game SOSOS did that - sidestepped the opponent and put it on McKay's head - mark and goal.

The kids did some good stuff and we didn't seem to try to be so cute, which helped.

One annoying thing was Phillips (twice) and Charlie were having set shots from 55 out. Never going to work...

Dow had the footy and Rioli lined him. Dow rode the tackle and Rioli went down.

I particularly relished that moment - Rioli would have regretted deciding on that move, and Dow looked rock solid.  :))

Saw bits and pieces on TV.  A couple of bits that I liked - Dow had the footy and Rioli lined him. Dow rode the tackle and Rioli went down.

In the first(?) qtr, McKay tired to kick a bit round the corner to Casboult and ended up out of bounds - Derm, mentioned that with a bit more experience, there was a sidestep and easy pass.  Late in the game SOSOS did that - sidestepped the opponent and put it on McKay's head - mark and goal.

The kids did some good stuff and we didn't seem to try to be so cute, which helped.

One annoying thing was Phillips (twice) and Charlie were having set shots from 55 out. Never going to work...

I recall Phillips kicking a goal from 55m set shot once before to win the game for us. Ripped his hamstring off doing it too.

H will be the Rising Star this week.

Think it will be Tom Doedee from the Crows...

I recall Phillips kicking a goal from 55m set shot once before to win the game for us. Ripped his hamstring off doing it too.

vs Cheats FC.

Cam O'Shea had 10 possessions - 8 of them clangers. I don't know if a player in double figures for disposals has ever had a 80% clanger rate before or will again. That is remarkable. I can't see how we can keep him in the team based on that alone. Experienced player too.

You have a few things wrong with this statement.

Firstly, he did have 10 possessions and he did have 8 clangers.
However, not all clangers come from possessions.

He actually went at 50%, not 20% as you suggest.

He had 2 Free kicks against, which count as clangers.

FWIW...

A clanger in Australian rules football is a term coined by Champion Data founder Ted Hopkins which refers to a turnover or a silly mistake made by a player. Its vague description in statistical tables is "errors including frees against".

Playing as a young key forward in a team getting hammered for large periods will do that.

Charlie Curnow was much more prominent more frequently and hit the scoreboard less.

It's workrate and application not anything else.

I particularly relished that moment - Rioli would have regretted deciding on that move, and Dow looked rock solid.  :))

That's coz his torso rests on colosseum pillars :))

Charlie Curnow was much more prominent more frequently and hit the scoreboard less.

It's workrate and application not anything else.

That's been McKay's problem at lower levels as well, at the moment he's a 50% player, he needs to learn to be switched on all the time. I think he said as much in his post match interview when they asked him about the difference at AFL level.

It's the main reason most of us thought Kerr was the better option at the moment.

Heard Terry Wallace say that we had 7 players who played in the VFL against v Collingwood two weeks ago.  If we keep plugging away we'll win soon enough.

You have a few things wrong with this statement.

Firstly, he did have 10 possessions and he did have 8 clangers.
However, not all clangers come from possessions.

He actually went at 50%, not 20% as you suggest.

He had 2 Free kicks against, which count as clangers.

FWIW...

He had 6 turnovers and a supercoach score of 14, he had a shocker.

Fisher is getting better every week, runs hard both ways and uses the ball well.

Fisher is getting better every week, runs hard both ways and uses the ball well.

x2... on Fisher..

re: OShea's kicking was terrible, dont know who he was playing on or how he defended so I cant judge if he stopped his man but he is lucky Marchbank is injured and
he is of the same dimensions.

Fisher is a real footballer and makes good decisions...Samo needs to learn from Fisher about application and attacking every contest, he is just choosing when to go at the minute...

Too true unfortunately - and he certainly doesn't trouble himself to chase with any intensity.

Rowe was the missing piece (or Alex Silvagni): it stops Jones being played on the wrong sort of opponent. It allowed Jones to play his game more and he did it very well.

Spot on Crash

BTW - Best game I have seen from Phillips and the MC probably performed better than ever before - McKay, Phillips, Rowe and Kerridge all did their bit - not so much Lamb but at least he tried to focus on the ball this time around (now he just needs to get his hands on it)

Too true unfortunately - and he certainly doesn't trouble himself to chase with any intensity.

True, (SPS), is becoming frustrating. He should be made to sit and watch a few hours of Cyril R highlights, especially the attack on the man and aggott and defensive stuff.

x2... on Fisher..

re: OShea's kicking was terrible, dont know who he was playing on or how he defended so I cant judge if he stopped his man but he is lucky Marchbank is injured and
he is of the same dimensions.

He had a shocker as did Plow in the 2nd half but O'Shea's errors did at least not lead directly to goals unlike SPS, Plowman and a few others.

BB should certainly consider giving Macreadie a run if he's fit - not much to lose in the swap.

Kerridge was very solid - and makes you wonder why he didn't play Rd 1 (I believe he was fit).

There seemed to me a much better mix of mature bodies around the ball - that Crippa was really throwing his weight around really stops the opposition mids getting cheeky with our young kids....

That said still think we'll look eons better once a fit Kennedy and Lang are in the 22.

Critical imo we target 1 or 2 established (quality) mids later in 2018 for 2019 onwards rather than more draft kids.

True, (SPS), is becoming frustrating. He should be made to sit and watch a few hours of Cyril R highlights, especially the attack on the man and aggott and defensive stuff.

Yes, one of the hallmarks of his early career was his tackling and attack on the ball carrier, he's lost that aggression and hasn't looked like it yet this season.

It's the 2nd year blues, like they all get, I don't want his progress stalled by flogging him mercilessly like we did Weitering. imho, BB needs to make the early call!

SPS definitely looks like he is just coasting along atm. I had him marked down last year as a strong and enthusiastic tackler and that has definitely largely disappeared - for now anyway. I don't know whether he has been given a different role and is trying to find his feet with that but he is certainly one of my disappointments so far this year. He still gives us a few tantalising glimpses of what he is capable of but only glimpses.

SPS needs a breakout game to convince himself that he belongs. Don't think he believes it yet.

SPS needs a breakout game to convince himself that he belongs. Don't think he believes it yet.

I think the opposite.
He thinks he's made it, and doesn't need the defensive physical approach he had.
Needs to stick his head down and get back involved when we don't have it.

I'm with you JonHenry....he's got ahead of himself....the shoes very much hint at that.

SPS needs a breakout game to convince himself that he belongs. Don't think he believes it yet.

I think the opposite.
He thinks he's made it, and doesn't need the defensive physical approach he had.
Needs to stick his head down and get back involved when we don't have it.

One glass half full, the other half empty.

Is there any evidence to support either assertion?

One glass half full, the other half empty.

Is there any evidence to support either assertion?

Not really, just from what I see, and I agree with a few others that say he picks and chooses when to go.
Maybe that's a learnt behaviour

Tackles per game last year v this year were 60% higher.
Clearances per game 2.1 down to 1.8

my thoughts from the game -

effort was there finally.  I think Crippa having a whole week to prepare for being captain and not having to suddenly do it with 2 minutes notice could have been the catalyst.  that will be proven in the coming weeks.  I'd be pleased with Crippa and/or Doc as captain - and it needs to be from next year.  no complaints about Murph - he did his best - he's just not very inspiring as a captain imo.

Jones was given the correct matchup by the match committee this week.  Don't play him on the best goalkicker - there's enough evidence to show he is NOT a lockdown defender.  but he is a jack in the box and a joy to watch.

Dow getting more comfortable, he'll build steadily and become a very good mid.  I questioned playing him earlier in the year if we were trying to win games this year, but the fact he has played from round 1 tells me it is still a development year for us. So he has to play, unless injured, and it will pay us back later.

Lochie O'B showed why he was drafted at 10.  Maybe not the best player available at 10, but the type we need.  Fantastic endurance, and a lovely left boot.  He did miss a couple of kicks, but not by much, and that will improve as he gets more composed.  But the thing I liked was how often he got to position to link up, and how often he did use the ball very nicely.  same theory here as with Dow - keep playing the kids.

Big H.  I know people here are saying he should have been playing earlier, but by making him earn it he comes out and kicks 4.  if he came in half ready and had a poor game, maybe that might hurt his development?  I'd love to see him play out the season in the AFL now (provided he doesn't drop off a cliff for an extended period).  And again - now that he is deemed ready - keep playing him.

Not really, just from what I see, and I agree with a few others that say he picks and chooses when to go.
Maybe that's a learnt behaviour

Tackles per game last year v this year were 60% higher.
Clearances per game 2.1 down to 1.8

I wonder how much of this is down to either 2nd year blues or the presence of Kennedy in the first few games.

I agree with the general perception, that SPS no longer looks like he belongs, I have no idea why!

Obviously he is not on his own in this regard for 2018, there are several down of form as we try to introduce attack. Perhaps we have drafted players who are primarily defensive in mindset, perhaps SPS primarily scores through tackles and forward pressure.

It's clear that Dow and O'Brien are the other side of the coin though!

I think the opposite.
He thinks he's made it, and doesn't need the defensive physical approach he had.
Needs to stick his head down and get back involved when we don't have it.

I'm also of the opinion that SPS is feeling too comfortable. He needs to get down and dirty; it would be good for his development.

Can I just say that Andrew Phillips set the tone early with his very first ruck contest.

Everyone rode HIS coat tails to the party as he went bloody hard at that first bounce and I think Nic Nat was shell shocked.

As for SPS, he shows poise in traffic, and like everyone else is having to help carry the load.

We are taking passengers in every week, and IMHO its showing on the younger players as they seem stuck in two minds about helping someone else out or doing what they were supposed to be doing themselves, and getting stuck in no man's land between decisions.

Patience guys.  Like Dow, 5 games later he looks much more comfortable, and O'Brien is looking like he belongs already which is great.

my thoughts from the game -

effort was there finally.  I think Crippa having a whole week to prepare for being captain and not having to suddenly do it with 2 minutes notice could have been the catalyst.  that will be proven in the coming weeks.  I'd be pleased with Crippa and/or Doc as captain - and it needs to be from next year.  no complaints about Murph - he did his best - he's just not very inspiring as a captain imo.

Jones was given the correct matchup by the match committee this week.  Don't play him on the best goalkicker - there's enough evidence to show he is NOT a lockdown defender.  but he is a jack in the box and a joy to watch.

Dow getting more comfortable, he'll build steadily and become a very good mid.  I questioned playing him earlier in the year if we were trying to win games this year, but the fact he has played from round 1 tells me it is still a development year for us. So he has to play, unless injured, and it will pay us back later.

Lochie O'B showed why he was drafted at 10.  Maybe not the best player available at 10, but the type we need.  Fantastic endurance, and a lovely left boot.  He did miss a couple of kicks, but not by much, and that will improve as he gets more composed.  But the thing I liked was how often he got to position to link up, and how often he did use the ball very nicely.  same theory here as with Dow - keep playing the kids.

Big H.  I know people here are saying he should have been playing earlier, but by making him earn it he comes out and kicks 4.  if he came in half ready and had a poor game, maybe that might hurt his development?  I'd love to see him play out the season in the AFL now (provided he doesn't drop off a cliff for an extended period).  And again - now that he is deemed ready - keep playing him.

Great post Tragic.

The beauty of hving Big H down there is that he is a legitmat tall target - running off his man and as a contested mark - and with Levi floating about too (not to mention Charlie) the opposition have to think how they will handle two super tall key forwards ((not to mention Charlie)  :) :) :)

All that said, we do need a win badly!

Cripps only had something like 34 possies but it was one of the most influential games I have seen from an individual.  From memory he had a hand in all but 2 of our goals. Several times he single handedly turned a threatening WCE move to our advantage through pressure/tackle/bump/intercept, and he was often involved in the immediate follow up play, and sometimes involved again for a third time.

The goal in the last when Simmo kicked to Crippa who quickly passed it on towards the AFL members wing (can't remember who) where it ended with a spearing pass to Casboult in the qoalsquare is the way we need to play more often. Obviously can't pull it off every time but I'd certainly be happy to see at least one coast-to-coast goal every match.

Feel like I have to be a bit of a wet blanket and point out how useless the Weagles are at the MCG. Looked more lost out there than Burke & Wills.  They might improve a little now that the new Perth ground is the same dimensions as the MCG but I can't see them going far in September.
 
Also really disappointed in SPS thus far this season, he was so mercurial when he debuted. Second year blues perhaps?

Finally, as a counterpoint to Cripps, I have to mention Simmo.  I need a rover who won't drive me crazy. Has there ever been a player whose amazing guts, work rate, and determination has been the total polar opposite of his effectiveness and ability to capitalise on said hard earned possessions?  Maddening.

I'm also of the opinion that SPS is feeling too comfortable. He needs to get down and dirty; it would be good for his development.

Is he being instructed to not bother getting down and dirty and play a certain way? That is the way he is playing now? Just sayin'

Great post Tragic.

The beauty of hving Big H down there is that he is a legitmat tall target - running off his man and as a contested mark - and with Levi floating about too (not to mention Charlie) the opposition have to think how they will handle two super tall key forwards ((not to mention Charlie)  :) :) :)

All that said, we do need a win badly!

Yes FB, H did well. But he needs to work harder. He needs to aspire to have a work rate like Charlie. He needs to get to as many contests as possible and create a headache for the defenders. He saw he can do it, as I said in another post, he now has to slowly amp it up every week. They need to get into his ear, and the ear of every player on the list, and make sure they don't rest on their laurels.

I agree GTC but I also think Harry has been sooking it up for quite some time (remember his tweet that he was the only only of his draftee mates not to get a RS nomination?).

Now he's in there, let's hope mentally he's up to the slog....

Is he being instructed to not bother getting down and dirty and play a certain way? That is the way he is playing now? Just sayin'

Hey GIC I’m confused by the post, I can’t see this being coached unless I am missing something. The modern day coach, including bolts, is very much about being able to win your own ball.

Are you suggesting he has been asked to play more outside as threats where our greatest need is?

I agree GTC but I also think Harry has been sooking it up for quite some time (remember his tweet that he was the only only of his draftee mates not to get a RS nomination?).

Now he's in there, let's hope mentally he's up to the slog....

Time for H to stop sooking, grow up, put in like the rest of the grown ups. Perhaps the penny has dropped. Lets hope so.

Hey GIC I’m confused by the post, I can’t see this being coached unless I am missing something. The modern day coach, including bolts, is very much about being able to win your own ball.

Are you suggesting he has been asked to play more outside as threats where our greatest need is?

All I am suggesting is that perhaps he is being instructed to play a certain way which is different to how we think he could/should play. We were talking about this very topic at work today and I suggested this to guys in the conversation. Lets face it, they are all robots who try and follow every instruction to the letter. SPS is a tough little character, an ex bull rider. Thats not the hobby of a soft cock right ? The kid also knows how to tackle, I have seen him do it. So why doesn't he do it all the time? Perhaps he other things/roles to do. No1inparticular and I were having a discussion about SPS a few weeks back. He suggested SPS brings others into the game by the way he plays, I am starting to see that now.

He had 6 turnovers and a supercoach score of 14, he had a shocker.

...and i pointed that out in my own comments earlier.

Doesn't make anything i said incorrect though.

Nothing you ever say is incorrect Kruddler, everyone knows that!  :o :-X ;D

Cripps only had something like 34 possies but it was one of the most influential games I have seen from an individual playing for Carlton in a long while.  From memory he had a hand in all but 2 of our goals. Several times he single handedly turned a threatening WCE move to our advantage through pressure/tackle/bump/intercept, and he was often involved in the immediate follow up play, and sometimes involved again for a third time.

Nothing you ever say is incorrect Kruddler, everyone knows that!  :o :-X ;D

Nothing you say is ever worth reading, but we get sucked into that.

I quoted stats from the game. It can't be wrong unless the stats guy got it wrong.

Feel free to add something constructive to a conversation once in a blue moon, it'd make an improvement.

Nothing you say is ever worth reading, but we get sucked into that.

I quoted stats from the game. It can't be wrong unless the stats guy got it wrong.

Feel free to add something constructive to a conversation once in a blue moon, it'd make an improvement.

I’m glad you asked...

“WEVE GOT LANG TO COME INTO THE TEAM !!! ????????????

SPS looks like he missed a bit of preseason to me and he's just off the pace. He's making some silly mistakes which weren't there last year. Having said that he was really good in the first half against Richmond in particular. Worth persevering with.

I’m glad you asked...

“WEVE GOT LANG TO COME INTO THE TEAM !!! ????????????

Oh, I have touched a few nerves!

Leaving the Doc injury aside, if you think the addition of (injury free) Lang and Kennedy won't have a major impact on the midfield, there is no hope....truly.

Not to mention, that leaving Kerridge out in rounds 1-4 wasn't a mistake (noting his career best form in the back half of 2017).

But I'm truly hoping you two rub noses more often.  :-*

I agree GTC but I also think Harry has been sooking it up for quite some time (remember his tweet that he was the only only of his draftee mates not to get a RS nomination?).

Now he's in there, let's hope mentally he's up to the slog....

I'm not sure he was "sooking it up" with that tweet, it came across to me as more of a self depreciating comment....ie, he knew in himself that he hadn't performed to the standard of the other blokes.

Anyway, whatever he was thinking at the time, I really hope that he now has some confidence to start building on his game & refuse to give up his spot for anyone. 

Good luck to him.

cheers

Harry made an excellent entrance. Let's hope he can continue playing and improving in his role. Go young Harry!

All I am suggesting is that perhaps he is being instructed to play a certain way which is different to how we think he could/should play. We were talking about this very topic at work today and I suggested this to guys in the conversation. Lets face it, they are all robots who try and follow every instruction to the letter. SPS is a tough little character, an ex bull rider. Thats not the hobby of a soft cock right ? The kid also knows how to tackle, I have seen him do it. So why doesn't he do it all the time? Perhaps he other things/roles to do. No1inparticular and I were having a discussion about SPS a few weeks back. He suggested SPS brings others into the game by the way he plays, I am starting to see that now.

Samo was penalised for a dangerous tackle a couple of games ago.  Perhaps he has been told to take it easy.

I don’t see a bloke who is ‘ahead of himself’ or is ‘picking and choosing when to go’.  I see a bloke who is still learning the game but has a good handle on his role and is doing his best for the club.  Bolton’s comments suggest that he has a similar view.

...and i pointed that out in my own comments earlier.

Doesn't make anything i said incorrect though.

I know. 6 turnovers isn't that bad if you're a creative player who does damage with your other disposals.

Fisher had 13 turnovers but was still one of our best players.



 

I'm not sure he was "sooking it up" with that tweet, it came across to me as more of a self depreciating comment....ie, he knew in himself that he hadn't performed to the standard of the other blokes.

Anyway, whatever he was thinking at the time, I really hope that he now has some confidence to start building on his game & refuse to give up his spot for anyone. 

Good luck to him.

cheers

That’s the way I see it!

I watched Harry’s post game interview and he impressed me as a team-orientated young man determined to improve and with a very realistic appreciation of where he’s at now.  I think that kicking four goals will boost his self-belief but he is also well aware of the errors he made and the need to work on eliminating them from his game.

I'm not sure he was "sooking it up" with that tweet, it came across to me as more of a self depreciating comment....ie, he knew in himself that he hadn't performed to the standard of the other blokes.

Anyway, whatever he was thinking at the time, I really hope that he now has some confidence to start building on his game & refuse to give up his spot for anyone. 

Good luck to him.

cheers

Great point Malo ...

My interpretation was definately not even close to sooking up he was absolutely taking the p...s out
of himself.  Something he does quite regularly.

Cripps only had something like 34 possies but it was one of the most influential games I have seen from an individual.  From memory he had a hand in all but 2 of our goals. Several times he single handedly turned a threatening WCE move to our advantage through pressure/tackle/bump/intercept, and he was often involved in the immediate follow up play, and sometimes involved again for a third time.

The goal in the last when Simmo kicked to Crippa who quickly passed it on towards the AFL members wing (can't remember who) where it ended with a spearing pass to Casboult in the qoalsquare is the way we need to play more often. Obviously can't pull it off every time but I'd certainly be happy to see at least one coast-to-coast goal every match.

Feel like I have to be a bit of a wet blanket and point out how useless the Weagles are at the MCG. Looked more lost out there than Burke & Wills.  They might improve a little now that the new Perth ground is the same dimensions as the MCG but I can't see them going far in September.
 
Also really disappointed in SPS thus far this season, he was so mercurial when he debuted. Second year blues perhaps?

Finally, as a counterpoint to Cripps, I have to mention Simmo.  I need a rover who won't drive me crazy. Has there ever been a player whose amazing guts, work rate, and determination has been the total polar opposite of his effectiveness and ability to capitalise on said hard earned possessions?  Maddening.

Great post. Agree with all points. Cripps looked as determined as I have ever seen him. Even looked quicker spreading a few times from the contest!

Simmo is simply a warrior who everyone respects - doesn't know how to not give 110% effort.

On SPS i have been disappointed in him so far this year. I'm not expecting him to dominate a game but at times his work rate looks below par.

He's a great talent no doubt, but as he seems like a player who wont get it as often as the big midfield ball winners so he needs to work very hard defensively as a result. Should try and model many aspects of his game on how Cyril Rioli does it. Might only get a dozen or so touches but makes something out of nothing so often and does so many 1 percenters that result in scores his touches are very damaging. 

Great point Malo ...

My interpretation was definately not even close to sooking up he was absolutely taking the p...s out
of himself.  Something he does quite regularly.

I have no idea how often he takes the piss out of himself, however some in this place occasionally notice that there’s 3 instead of the usual 7 tea leaves floating in their morning beverage and couple that insight with the fact that the starling’s seem to be nesting later this year and that SPS seems to have stalled in his development... some just can’t see the woods for the trees... ????

Harry made an excellent entrance. Let's hope he can continue playing and improving in his role. Go young Harry!

After two false starts! ;)

We cannot seriously judge this kid until he's got 50+ games under his belt, that will take him at least into his 5th seasons on current averages.

I have no idea how often he takes the piss out of himself, however some in this place occasionally notice that there’s 3 instead of the usual 7 tea leaves floating in their morning beverage and couple that insight with the fact that the starling’s seem to be nesting later this year and that SPS seems to have stalled in his development... some just can’t see the woods for the trees... ????

Players stall, it's normal for 2nd year blues to apply. But the worry with some is that it appears their work rate drops off with their success.

You look at SoJ and Weitering, good or bad form, they keep busting their ar5e on field and it's inevitable that they will get back to their best as is the case with any form related issue. For those guys it is more about a synchronisation issue.

The bigger worry for some observers are those players who seem to switch off when their form slides. They are the guys who can be great when they are good, but bloody awful at other times! They can appear like they want it delivered on a platter or they'll take their ball and go home!

After two false starts! ;)

We cannot seriously judge this kid until he's got 50+ games under his belt, that will take him at least into his 5th seasons on current averages.

Maybe he did stumble a little at first for various reasons but I prefer not to fixate on past negatives and look forward to him fulfilling his potential which would deliver huge benefits for us. He needs to look forward not backwards.

Maybe he did stumble a little at first for various reasons but I prefer not to fixate on past negatives and look forward to him fulfilling his potential which would deliver huge benefits for us. He needs to look forward not backwards.

Learning comes from the past, performance is always in the future!

Learning comes from the past, performance is always in the future!

Big difference between learning and moving on and being continually niggled about it and not being allowed to forget past issues. Constant reminders of past mistakes is an excellent method of ruining the future - and very old school.

Big difference between learning and moving on and being continually niggled about it and not being allowed to forget past issues. Constant reminders of past mistakes is an excellent method of ruining the future - and very old school.

"10 Second Tom" is doomed to make the same mistake over and over again, that is caused by forgetting!

"10 Second Tom" is doomed to make the same mistake over and over again, that is caused by forgetting!

No one will  be allowed to forget with you around.. ;)

No one will  be allowed to forget with you around.. ;)

Actually, I'm an advocate for forgiving but not forgetting. Not forgiving or forgetting puts you in the MM camp of hanging players for simple one-off mistakes!

The question then becomes one of balance, how often should you forgive a repeat offender?

If you decide to forgive eternally, when do you become a fool?

Actually, I'm an advocate for forgiving but not forgetting. Not forgiving or forgetting puts you in the MM camp of hanging players for simple one-off mistakes!

The question then becomes one of balance, how often should you forgive a repeat offender?

If you decide to forgive eternally, when do you become a fool?

Forgiving, if indeed that is the right word, is not continually reminding people of their "mistakes" but offering advice as to how they might improve and what the club expects from them. If they can't get up to the desired standard then you eventually say goodbye to them. I guess the equation then becomes one of observing their rate of improvement v. their estimated eventual value plus other considerations such as other options available etc. I'm sure that would be BB's approach, or something similar - not to keep them on the rack of regular recrimination. Didn't we sack a coach who favoured that approach?

Interesting that you see young players trying to learn but making mistakes as "offenders".  :o

Forgiving, if indeed that is the right word, is not continually reminding people of their "mistakes" but offering advice as to how they might improve and what the club expects from them. If they can't get up to the desired standard then you eventually say goodbye to them. I guess the equation then becomes one of observing their rate of improvement v. their estimated eventual value plus other considerations such as other options available etc. I'm sure that would be BB's approach, or something similar - not to keep them on the rack of regular recrimination. Didn't we sack a coach who favoured that approach?

Interesting that you see young players trying to learn but making mistakes as "offenders".  :o

I suppose I have been too broad in that it's reasonable to qualifying this debate in terms of youth only given the McKay discussion, but youth only was never my focus!

Regardless, by the time he gets 50 games he won't be qualified as youth anymore!

I think that's the main thing, 4 goals makes it seem like a great game but I was there and he was pretty average. But he needs anything he can get to build some confidence and momentum in his game. I think we nailed it with Dow, looks really solid every week he is going to be a gun for us. Quitely impressed with O'Brien also think he has something.

I know I will probably catch a lot of criticism, but I agree.
I said prior to the game that for a pass from me he would need to work hard, lead, make second leads and work defensively.
Once again, our forwards were lazy. There is simply no work from them .
Jack is the only one that consistently leads and his effort in defence is second to none (even though he has difficulty making his tackles stick)
There were numerous times we had a mark 60-70m out from goal, the wide angle shot of the forward 50 comes up on screen and theres Jack running on a lead, and Casboult and McKay standing close to the goal square making no effort whatsoever. The ball is bombed in to a 5 on 10 situation, and there goes our forward 50 entry. Not good enough.
Well done to McKay kicking 4. He kicked very straight, and the banana was a spectacular looking kick.
I just think we need more effort from our forwards.

I know I will probably catch a lot of criticism, but I agree.
I said prior to the game that for a pass from me he would need to work hard, lead, make second leads and work defensively.
Once again, our forwards were lazy. There is simply no work from them .
Jack is the only one that consistently leads and his effort in defence is second to none (even though he has difficulty making his tackles stick)
There were numerous times we had a mark 60-70m out from goal, the wide angle shot of the forward 50 comes up on screen and theres Jack running on a lead, and Casboult and McKay standing close to the goal square making no effort whatsoever. The ball is bombed in to a 5 on 10 situation, and there goes our forward 50 entry. Not good enough.
Well done to McKay kicking 4. He kicked very straight, and the banana was a spectacular looking kick.
I just think we need more effort from our forwards.

Deags, it's amazing how much forgiveness a few goals will generate.

Your post is about the big picture, the forest, and I agree. I'm not going to distracted by the shrubs in the foreground!

But that McKay game is no different to what we saw or has been reported at VFL level. I'm greatful for the conversions, but in that regard he's selling water to those dying of thirst, we need someone who digs the well not just someone selling the end result of everybody else's labours. It's the difference between a short term patch and a long term fix, I get the feeling BB was pressured into a short-term fix for reasons other than football.

We've lacked a finisher for so long we are relieved, but that is not what we really need!

He's only a kid, he's got another 2 or 3 years to mature!

In the short term, I think we need a forward who does for our front half what Rowe did for the back half, to me Kerr is that player if he can make the step up to AFL. A structural player, not a decorative finisher.

Dont get me wrong, I'm happy to finally have a big bloke in the side that can kick a ball through the middle 2 posts, but as we've both said many times, I want that bloke to workhis butt off to get the ball as well. It's the guy who works his butt off that will kick 50+ goals in a season, which is what you want from your go to guy.
Anyway, I guess we can just enjoy what McKay gives us and hope that by 50-75 games we are getting that effort from him.

Dont get me wrong, I'm happy to finally have a big bloke in the side that can kick a ball through the middle 2 posts, but as we've both said many times, I want that bloke to workhis butt off to get the ball as well. It's the guy who works his butt off that will kick 50+ goals in a season, which is what you want from your go to guy.
Anyway, I guess we can just enjoy what McKay gives us and hope that by 50-75 games we are getting that effort from him.

Yep, stay positive, we get to see more than a 200cm small forward in coming weeks and months.

I expect the Dogs to pester the hell out of him next Friday, it will be interesting to see how he responds! Fast dry surface should suit him though, he's very agile and also can be very good at ground level.

I think that's the main thing, 4 goals makes it seem like a great game but I was there and he was pretty average. But he needs anything he can get to build some confidence and momentum in his game. I think we nailed it with Dow, looks really solid every week he is going to be a gun for us. Quitely impressed with O'Brien also think he has something.

I wasn't there but I had the advantage of watching the game on the TV - and that often gives a better overall perspective than what one gets from their seat on level 1 or 2.

Harry made a few blues, the out of bounds on the full when Casboult had a ten metre break was a turning point in the game.  However, for a young bloke in his third game and playing against an All Australian defender, four goals is a magnificent achievement.  Add to that his six marks and three inside 50s and that's a performance worthy of a seasoned campaigner.  Harry wasn't "pretty average", he was pretty damn good.

I was actually quite surprised at how well H-Mac moved across the surface. Really damn quick and agile, and I must say although not receiving as much kudos as Cripps and H, A Phillips attacked the game, the ball and the player with such gusto that I was excited by his return and forgot Kreuzer was injured.

Really loved what Sauce brought to the table against a formidable duo in NicNat/Lycett.

Could we play Sauce and Kreuzer together? Kreuzer could be another mid around the stoppages and offer a bit of protection for Fish and Cripps. Fish and Cripps with Sauce and a side of Matty K sounds good

I was actually quite surprised at how well H-Mac moved across the surface. Really damn quick and agile, and I must say although not receiving as much kudos as Cripps and H, A Phillips attacked the game, the ball and the player with such gusto that I was excited by his return and forgot Kreuzer was injured.

Really loved what Sauce brought to the table against a formidable duo in NicNat/Lycett.

Could we play Sauce and Kreuzer together? Kreuzer could be another mid around the stoppages and offer a bit of protection for Fish and Cripps. Fish and Cripps with Sauce and a side of Matty K sounds good

I suggested similar in a different thread. I agree that it would be worth trying. In my opinion Kreuzer could handle the  role, resting forward.

The bigger issue is could we get away with playing Kreuzer, Phillips, Levi and Big H in the same team?

No.

I dont see why not.
Most teams have at least 2 tall forwards and a ruck.
If Kreuz is playing as a midfielder, and rotating as such, why couldn't it work?
One of the 4 will pretty much always be on the bench. I know it wont happen, but I reckon it would be worth a try.

I dont see why not.
Most teams have at least 2 tall forwards and a ruck.
If Kreuz is playing as a midfielder, and rotating as such, why couldn't it work?
One of the 4 will pretty much always be on the bench. I know it wont happen, but I reckon it would be worth a try.

I've said this previously, you simply can't play him as a midfielder for a full game.

As a ruckman, he has midfielder like qualities.
As a midfielder, he is average.

You are better off playing Kerridge as a midfielder than Kreuzer.

I wasn't there but I had the advantage of watching the game on the TV - and that often gives a better overall perspective than what one gets from their seat on level 1 or 2.

Harry made a few blues, the out of bounds on the full when Casboult had a ten metre break was a turning point in the game.  However, for a young bloke in his third game and playing against an All Australian defender, four goals is a magnificent achievement.  Add to that his six marks and three inside 50s and that's a performance worthy of a seasoned campaigner.  Harry wasn't "pretty average", he was pretty damn good.

TV gives a different perspective, but not a better one. What TV won't show you is what players do when they don't have the ball in hand, which even for ball magnets is >95% of the game. Team play is what they do or don't do when they don't have the ball, and this is key to judging how well a player plays, and how well a team plays

What you get from tv also is the commentary and analysis. OK, some of it may be ordinary but by the same token some of it is quite useful in understanding the ebb and flow of games and the impact of individual players and the roles they may be playing.

If I'm forced to watch games on tv I usually hit mute, I think 99% of what they say is total crap

If I'm forced to watch games on tv I usually hit mute, I think 99% of what they say is total crap

Thank you for your insights.  :)
 Interestingly though, how do you know that such a high proportion of what they say is crap if you don't listen to it?

Because I usually start with the sound on, then turn it off when I get sick of it (usually about half way through the first quarter)

Because I usually start with the sound on, then turn it off when I get sick of it (usually about half way through the first quarter)

Right.

So I got to watch the game last night. Here are my observations;
While H McKay did better than I thought he would a couple of his goals were the result of him being "out the back" of a contest so I'm still concerned about his work ethic. At least he'll get another week to see what he's made of.
We really blew any chance of winning this in the last quarter when we had all the play and continued to take the wrong option when streaming into the forward line. Could argue it was due to a lack of experience but on two occasions it was Simmo and Wright making the dumb decision. Boy we blew it against a very average WC side.
O'Shea is a hack and has had enough chances. Needs to go.
Lamb did nothing and has had enough chances. Needs to go.
Mullett can kick OK but does nothing much else and has had enough chances. Needs to go.
One of either Garlett or SPS need a rest. I'm leaning towards SPS.
Rowe adds a bit of stability to the backline but should never be allowed to kick the ball.
O'brien looked OK. Does add a bit of pace.
Good return to form for Liam Jones (Rowe inclusion?)

Hope they can bring the same intensity to this Friday nights game but I won't hold my breath. Wish it wasn't at Etihad.

So I got to watch the game last night. Here are my observations;
While H McKay did better than I thought he would a couple of his goals were the result of him being "out the back" of a contest so I'm still concerned about his work ethic. At least he'll get another week to see what he's made of.

Agreed, we need this kid to watch some Johnno Brown's early games, not use the bad old Casboult type as a role model.

From day one Brown used his size and strength to advantage even if he wasn't a prolific goal scorer early, he worked in a way that created opportunities for every other forward even at the expense of his own success and welfare.

If McKay doesn't learn to use his bulk and presence well have our own version of Joe Daniher, a 200cm small forward difficult to match up on but not really a KPP.  That doesn't help your mediums and smalls at all, it just robs them of their opportunities when the 200cm type competes with them at ground level for the same ball!

I'm dead-set over our KPFs trying to play like Rioli! We need a KPF that creates opportunities for our otherwise utilitarian small and medium forwards and the teams overall performance will increase dramatically. We may actually get to see the ball locked in our F50!

re McKay.

Stats will show he kicked 4 goals and is a 3rd gamer. That automatically gets a big tick from everyone.

However, watching the game showed that he was lucky to get 4 goals. The free kick he got for a push when he wasn't even touched was about as lucky as you can get. I reckon a couple of others were pretty lucky too.

Positives...
Doesn't matter how you get them, they all count. If you can get them every week. No problem.

Cons...
He won't get them every week, so will need to earn them himself in the future. Can he?? We dont know.

Agree with all of that, but I think he has at least shown enough to deserve a string of games and let's see what he can do

The bloke didn't trouble the stats sheet for a half of football.

He won't be the first player to do that, nor the last.

It basically means he's not quite afl ready yet.

That's ok too.  He's shown enough to suggest he should remain a Carlton player and start building towards putting in 4 quarter performances.  Whether that happens at AFL level, or not depends largely on his teamates,  injuries and himself.  

Agree with all of that, but I think he has at least shown enough to deserve a string of games and let's see what he can do

...and i agree.

I said all i'd hoped to see of him (pre-game) was that he put in effort and didn't drop his head. Didn't care if he got a kick, as long as we saw effort.
I'm not expecting him to dominate yet, but he needs extended exposure.

But being realistic, it was potentially one of the most forgettable 4 goal games you're ever likely to see.

Yep, fair enough too. I'm going on Friday night and I'll keep an eye on how hard he is working off the ball

Haven't seen the game, but he kicks 4 thats all he did , we'll call it balance we have players with opportunity & plenty of the ball but can't convert , some has to do it. So if he is that lucky I will take it