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Poll

How will Carlton react to recent results?

The Quick Fix, it's back to the bad old ways!
[ 1 ] (2.1%)
Nothing, they have no idea what to do!
[ 5 ] (10.4%)
They'll stick fat, and stay on course!
[ 42 ] (87.5%)

Total Members Voted: 46

Topic: The Quick Fix (Read 17670 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: The Quick Fix

Reply #60 –
Quote from: Thryleon on
But this is where our list management in the past has failed us.
The list is actually quite lengthy and whilst I would be reluctant to move on too many, sometimes you move on whats better value.

For me, the only trade out that could cause someone to part with something, is Levi Casboult.  Now, I know hes not worth blah blah blah, but if Zach Tuohy can get us a first rounder, you never know what Casboult can get.

Also, I wouldnt be chopping Mckay without looking at the opportunity cost.

It's got me beaten why a lot of Carlton supporters still think that Levi has trade value.
As for Tuohy, he was 26 years old, durable, tough,  and with excellent skills.
He was AA nominated in 2017 and Geelong's first rounder was never going to be a top 10 pick, it's highly debatable whether we got full value for him but clubs often lose out when out of contract players want to leave.
If we want to trade in someone decent or get a draft pick worth having we need to forget about swapping Casboult, Mullet, Phillips or any other fringe players we've got clogging up our list, someone like McKay is the only commodity we have with market appeal.
The only thing in this world worth more than a hill of beans is the Carlton Football Club.

Re: The Quick Fix

Reply #61 –
Quote from: pew2 on
one player who could get us good draft value is plowman, i would trade him for the right deal.To me has been flying under the radar (weitering and jones) taking all the heat but wat has he done that makes him so special,can any1 mention a game where LP dominated

I agree, not so much Plowman specifically but he's the type of player who could attract interest.
We're a bottom four club, no one will be interested in our flotsam and jetsam.
The only thing in this world worth more than a hill of beans is the Carlton Football Club.

Re: The Quick Fix

Reply #62 –
Particularly when our flotsam and jetsam has already come from other clubs

Re: The Quick Fix

Reply #63 –
Quote from: blue4life on
It won't be at the end of this season, he'll have been at the club for three years by then so if we hang onto him and he doesn't measure up in 2019 his value will be approaching zero.
Better to play him and see what he's made of.

For a midfielder or utility I think 3 years is enough, most 200cm types are not much good until they are 23 or 24, that's the five year or more mark! I'm afraid that is just reality for most tall KPPs or typical Rucks.

Joe Daniher was pretty much a spud for his first 4 years, but they were playing him in the 1s.

I'll say this though, what I have seen of De Koning I have him way ahead of McKay in terms of work rate and mobility. If De Koning was a big stronger, he may even have Kerr covered. When Lobbe returns things will get very interesting at VFL level, it's not clear to me who stays and who goes, I suspect Kerr deserves to stay!

We may find that when Phillips and Lobbe are up and about Kreuzer will get mothballed.

De Koning is not quite as good at ground level as McKay, but then again McKay only makes an effort at ground level occasionally which is part of his current problem.

Kerr is probably the weakest of the three at ground level, but the strongest overhead and the hardest worker, Kerr has a bit more footy smarts I suppose he needs them not having a natural height advantage.

Kerr creates opportunities for team-mates, McKay takes advantage of them!

I really do not understand why Kerr hasn't yet got a gig, he'd work well with Charlie, the coaches must have a reason we cannot see.

The other thing I like about Kerr is he is a redhead, most seasoned and successful redheads are as hard as nails, they(Inclusive of all redheads) seem to be all one way or the other, soft as butter or hard as concrete!
The Force Awakens!

Re: The Quick Fix

Reply #64 –
Quote from: LP on
For a midfielder or utility I think 3 years is enough, most 200cm types are not much good until they are 23 or 24, that's the five year or more mark! I'm afraid that is just reality for most tall KPPs or typical Rucks.

Joe Daniher was pretty much a spud for his first 4 years, but they were playing him in the 1s.

Daniher was showing plenty in his first two seasons, McKay can't get a game in a bottom side which struggles to kick more than 60 points.
It's nonsense that tall players are no good until they're 24 or 25, the good ones don't take that long.
The only thing in this world worth more than a hill of beans is the Carlton Football Club.

Re: The Quick Fix

Reply #65 –
Quote from: blue4life on
It's nonsense that tall players are no good until they're 24 or 25, the good ones don't take that long.

Can you provide some examples, that aren't named Franklin? Even Franklin was a highlight reel player until about his 4th season!

Showing "signs" or being "good" are pretty subjective terms B4L, what are the numbers, what is "good"?

Would you say,

Taylor Walker
Josh Jenkins
Josh Kennedy
Jack Riewoldt
Jarryd Roughead

None of them much chop in terms of being statistically good until after season 3 or 4, highlights sure, but before season 4 nothing of real substance!

I could add,

Charlie Dixon
Jarrad Waite
Tom Hawkins
Jack Darling

but they were even slower starters!

That means most of them come good around 23 or older, McKay is a bottom ager, he'll be 23 at the end of 2020! And fairness to McKay, most of the above were playing in and around established older players who could show them the ropes! Do we judge McKay by what he learns off our older KPFs, that being primarily Levi?

Sort of sucks doesn't it, I'm starting to see what Judd meant!
The Force Awakens!

Re: The Quick Fix

Reply #66 –
Don't forget McKay missed his whole first season with a back injury also.

Long time lurker few time poster !!

Re: The Quick Fix

Reply #67 –
With very few exceptions it takes all players until their third season to hit their straps regardless of height, Diesel Williams won the MVP in his first season and Carey was Captain of North at 20, but they were once in a generation footballers.
Kouta played 50 reserve games, Cripps didn't show a great deal until year three, big Harry can get himself into gear any time he likes as far as I'm concerned, the sooner the better.
The only thing in this world worth more than a hill of beans is the Carlton Football Club.

Re: The Quick Fix

Reply #68 –
Quote from: blue4life on
With very few exceptions it takes all players until their third season to hit their straps regardless of height, Diesel Williams won the MVP in his first season and Carey was Captain of North at 20, but they were once in a generation footballers.
Kouta played 50 reserve games, Cripps didn't show a great deal until year three, big Harry can get himself into gear any time he likes as far as I'm concerned, the sooner the better.

B4L, Diesel Williams was 21 in his first season and had come through VFL level competitions playing against men. Also the mentoring effect, he played besides guys like Ablett Snr, Bruns, Turner, Peake, Yeates, Bews and Neal. Not a spud amongst them!

I don't have to tell you who Kouta had to learn off.

Modern kids are 18, and come out of the TAC Cup playing against boys, so you can understand why many AFL clubs want a Reserves competition.

We'd probably kill to have some experience Harry could play alongside!
The Force Awakens!

Re: The Quick Fix

Reply #69 –
Quote from: blue4life on
With very few exceptions it takes all players until their third season to hit their straps regardless of height, Diesel Williams won the MVP in his first season and Carey was Captain of North at 20, but they were once in a generation footballers.
Kouta played 50 reserve games, Cripps didn't show a great deal until year three, big Harry can get himself into gear any time he likes as far as I'm concerned, the sooner the better.

Year 2.

He broke his leg in year 1 (debut 2014).

Year 2 he hit the ground running and we all realised we had a live one.  He won the John Nicholls medal in 2015.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: The Quick Fix

Reply #70 –
Personally, I don't think Cripps is a valid example to compare any other AFL player against, you cannot use him in a comparison to other mids, and he's not like any other KPP his size.

Even so he got to play besides Judd! ;)

The Force Awakens!

Re: The Quick Fix

Reply #71 –
No one wants to see Harry make the grade more than I do believe me, it's just that I've heard the big blokes take longer line plenty of times over the years and it's usually just a wish and a hope, Hampson and De Luca come to mind but it's been said about other duds we've had around the place.
I'd be happy enough if he could just get a game, but it's a worry that he can't force his way into such a poorly performed side and it's not as if he's injured.
All I'm saying is that he needs to shape up otherwise we'd be better off cutting our losses while he might still have some trade value, in the position we find ourselves there's no room for wishful thinking.
The only thing in this world worth more than a hill of beans is the Carlton Football Club.

Re: The Quick Fix

Reply #72 –
What trade value? He's shown nothing (or close to nothing) and can't force his way into a struggling club that can't hit the scoreboard? If I was an opposition list manager I'd be offering a late third round or fourth round pick for him

Re: The Quick Fix

Reply #73 –
Quote from: Jack Burton on
What trade value? He's shown nothing (or close to nothing) and can't force his way into a struggling club that can't hit the scoreboard? If I was an opposition list manager I'd be offering a late third round or fourth round pick for him

Which is more than we got for Watson and a few others.
The only thing in this world worth more than a hill of beans is the Carlton Football Club.

Re: The Quick Fix

Reply #74 –
Quote from: Hubba on
Don't forget McKay missed his whole first season with a back injury also.

Indeed. He'd not long got back on the park when he sustained a toe injury IIRC
It doesn't make sense including the time injured as time developing.
Coming together is the beginning.
Keeping together is progress.
Working together is success.
Henry Ford.