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Topic: OPINION : Our Next Premiership - Without Judd & Co ?? (Read 36601 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: OPINION : Our Next Premiership - Without Judd & Co ??

Reply #15 –
I think you can predict to some extent lodsie. Leadership and culture drive the development of young players at any club. We are behind in at least leadership we can all admit we have sht leadership at the club and those who are considered to be real leaders are nearing the end and our new captain doesn't lay tackles in big finals.
Ignorance is bliss.

ONWARDS AND UPWARDS!

Re: OPINION : Our Next Premiership - Without Judd & Co ??

Reply #16 –
I'm not sure about the relevance of the statistic around average age. All AFL lists are so close in terms of average age. North's is 24.73 and Carlton's is 24.79. Hawthorn is 24.68.

Our average age is skewed because we recruited Duigan and Rowe instead of 18 year-olds more than actually having a full list of guys about to retire.

Waite, Judd and Scotland are a year or two away max from finishing but everyone else seems to have at least a few good years left. We didn't get much service out of those 3 last year anyway despite their massive combined salaries.

Half the reason why we weren't much good.

Our core right now is very much guys like Hendo, Gibbs, Murphy, Kreuze, etc. who are all in the middle of their careers.

So when the older guys go we'll be rebuilding around an experienced core - not a full scale bottoming out.

Re: OPINION : Our Next Premiership - Without Judd & Co ??

Reply #17 –
Quote from: PassIt2Carrots on
Quote from: Lods on
Quote from: PassIt2Carrots on

@lodsie

We are far from a serious threat in 2015 with all those star players coming to the end. We are dropping off in 2015 compared to 2014 IMO.

Problem with that argument is that you accept (as I do) that some of our better players will slip, yet you seem to discount the improvement to some of our younger players who in a year or two will be coming into their prime. Those around the 30+ mark are still top 22 players yet most of them even Judd over the last couple of seasons have been rather inconsistent.

Murphy, Gibbs and Kreuzer are not great leaders like Judd, Carrazzo, Scotland et al.

The youth we have coming through do not get even close to the above mentioned players. I think the five players i mentioned are the heart and soul of the club and our club will have very little heart once these blokes depart.

Turnips, Mate... your negativity astounds me! Why do you bother (with membership? maybe even getting out of bed each day)? Even Ye Sheikness is shining rays of (realistic) hope on our club.

I see so much for us to be optimistic about. This past season, still with a number of non-hackers in the group (most of whom are now gone), we only embarrassed ourselves in two games. And were only a bees plonker from winning games against top sides. And the Senior Coach admitted not really understanding the group properly for the first couple of months of the season proper (understandable considering the late arrival).

Go on... be bold, take a risk... allow a scintilla of hope / optimism for season 2014. Be good for the soul.  ;)
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: OPINION : Our Next Premiership - Without Judd & Co ??

Reply #18 –
LOL. You would seem very foolish if you adopted any other attitude Baggers. ;)
Ignorance is bliss.

ONWARDS AND UPWARDS!

Re: OPINION : Our Next Premiership - Without Judd & Co ??

Reply #19 –
Quote from: ItsOurTime on
Look how much has to go right:

MK develops into a good ruckman
Murphy has a great year
Thomas gets over his injury and returns to form
Waite gets on the park and isn't past it
Judd isn't broken
Garlett plays well without Betts
Robinson clicks under MM
Watson goes from a twos player to holding down a key post
Gibbs and Yarran pull their fingers out
Carrots gets on the park and the game hasn;t gone past him.
Curnow continues to be an good tagger

Too many question marks all over the ground for this year. Maybe it clicks in 2015 but it would be looking ominous for those guys.

Im buoyed by your post personally:

MK can only have an a better injury free year, or will be replaced by Cameron Wood from the long term injury list.  Wood is at worst a reliable ruck, which means we should improve in our ruck division.
Murphy has had 2 interuppted, below par seasons in a career spanning 8 years.  In fact, last season was his worst 12 months with us since he was drafted.  He stays fit, he will only be good.
Thomas is all about the body.  If he is fit, he is an upgrade for us over any other player who would have been playing in his absence.
Waite's issue again is about playing games of football.  When he plays he is rolled gold for us up forward.  He does not have many matches where he doesnt fire, and when he does he is borderline match winner.
Judd should give us more next season.  He has been below his best since the 2011 finals series, and this year will prove he is finished or will prove that he has a fair way to go.  The way he was able to impact games towards the end of the season tells me his body was letting him down.  The question mark remains, is he broken?
Garlett plays well with or without Betts, proven already.  The question is, will we compensate enough for Betts absence?
Robinson is what he is.  We just need him channelled better.
Watson can only improve.
Gibbs and Yarran can only improve.
Carrots is another who can only improve.  The way he returned from his previous shoulder injury should keep us all buoyed about his prospects moving forward.  The fact that he was always a fit guy can only help him get back.
Curnow has thus far proven that whilst he is able to compete physically that he can be a very good ordinary performer for us.

Things can only get better so to speak.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: OPINION : Our Next Premiership - Without Judd & Co ??

Reply #20 –
As a club, we failed to embrace the draft & strategic trades option for many years and as such, have not been able to develop a strong enough list with the necessary depth to take us back to the top.

Thankfully, the wheel has turned significantly in this direction and the list is now starting to take some impressive shape. The midfield fleet is stronger again with the various additions over the past 12-months, the only thing stopping us now is our ability to kick winning scores.

We all know that key position players do take a little longer to reach their zenith, question is, will Casboult ever ?? In what may sound like a weird sort of Twilight Zone moment, Casboult holds the key to our immediate success. If he can become a consistent goal-kicker in a key post (by that I'm suggesting 60-70 per year) then the rest will fall into place. If he doesn't, the stocks are going to be spread way too thin for another season and Henderson is going to be shuffled up and down the ground in most games.

If Casboult can't make that transition, then we are going to be waiting another 12-months for the club to "find" one elsewhere.
"The Other Teams Can Rot In Hell"

Re: OPINION : Our Next Premiership - Without Judd & Co ??

Reply #21 –
Quote from: TheSheik on
We all know that key position players do take a little longer to reach their zenith, question is, will Casboult ever ?? In what may sound like a weird sort of Twilight Zone moment, Casboult holds the key to our immediate success. If he can become a consistent goal-kicker in a key post (by that I'm suggesting 60-70 per year) then the rest will fall into place.

I actually wonder when the last time you actually watched football other than an interest in the odd Carlton game. 60-70 goals will have him in the race for the Coleman medal, ie one of the better forwards in the competition rather than a consistent contributor. Maybe if Hendo plays his entire time forward he might "contribute" those 60 goals but it won't be from Levi, 30 - 40 goals is more realistic of a great year for him but I'm not sure if he has it in him.

Re: OPINION : Our Next Premiership - Without Judd & Co ??

Reply #22 –
Quote from: TheSheik on
As a club, we failed to embrace the draft & strategic trades option for many years and as such, have not been able to develop a strong enough list with the necessary depth to take us back to the top.

Thankfully, the wheel has turned significantly in this direction and the list is now starting to take some impressive shape. The midfield fleet is stronger again with the various additions over the past 12-months, the only thing stopping us now is our ability to kick winning scores.

We all know that key position players do take a little longer to reach their zenith, question is, will Casboult ever ?? In what may sound like a weird sort of Twilight Zone moment, Casboult holds the key to our immediate success. If he can become a consistent goal-kicker in a key post (by that I'm suggesting 60-70 per year) then the rest will fall into place. If he doesn't, the stocks are going to be spread way too thin for another season and Henderson is going to be shuffled up and down the ground in most games.

If Casboult can't make that transition, then we are going to be waiting another 12-months for the club to "find" one elsewhere.

I get where you're coming from with that, mate, but it doesn't really hold true in all cases in the modern game anymore. Here are the leading goal scorers for last year's top 4 just to illustrate:

Hawthorn: Roughead (72), Franklin (60) - Yep, definitely supports your theory there.
Fremantle: Michael Walters (46), Chris Mayne (37) - Neither are key position players, and they played in the GF. It was their game plan that got them there.
Geelong: Hawkins (49) - He's a key forward, sure, but he didn't have to boot 60-70 goals to get Geelong into the top 4 and a breath from another GF.
Sydney: Tippett (35... in 12 games), McGlynn (30) - The Swans were winning plenty of games without any sort of bonafide key forward. They only got Tippett back for the second half of the season.

Surely that shows you that it's more about the game plan and contributions from all over the park, with everyone doing their jobs, than it is about having a big fella boot 70+ goals in a season. Plain and simple, we obviously don't absolutely have to have Casboult stand up and win a Coleman Medal, we need a team that buys into a winning plan and we need to execute that plan to an elite level week after week.

We do that, with the talent that we have available to us, and we have a good run with injuries then we are every chance to finish top 4 and challenge for a flag. We have the cattle and the structure now, I think.
Just glad I'm old enough to have enjoyed the 1995 Grand Final

Re: OPINION : Our Next Premiership - Without Judd & Co ??

Reply #23 –
Of course 60-70 goals in a season would have in the race for the Coleman, that's the whole point of having a key forward of that nature. If your team has the highest goal-kicker in the competition, the chances of your team winning more games than not would be dramatically increased.

Nath's examples :

Quote
Hawthorn: Roughead (72), Franklin (60) - Yep, definitely supports your theory there.
Fremantle: Michael Walters (46), Chris Mayne (37) - Neither are key position players, and they played in the GF. It was their game plan that got them there.
Geelong: Hawkins (49) - He's a key forward, sure, but he didn't have to boot 60-70 goals to get Geelong into the top 4 and a breath from another GF.
Sydney: Tippett (35... in 12 games), McGlynn (30) - The Swans were winning plenty of games without any sort of bonafide key forward. They only got Tippett back for the second half of the season.

Hawks - well we just want one of those types of player returns, two is a luxury.
Freo - they kick the ball to Pav more often than not, Garlett is our Walters and we have mids who can cover Mundy's return
Geelong - if we got 49 out of Casboult we'd be ecstatic, besides, the Cats have other goalkickers around him
Sydney - Tippett getting 35 in 12 games is equivalent to 65 in a full season, they now have Buddy, Reid & Goodes to create headaches for opposition coaches also.
"The Other Teams Can Rot In Hell"

Re: OPINION : Our Next Premiership - Without Judd & Co ??

Reply #24 –
Quote from: PassIt2Carrots on
We are far from a serious threat in 2015 with all those star players coming to the end. We are dropping off in 2015 compared to 2014 IMO.

You say this, and have a go at me for suggesting Carrazzo might be forced into retirement this year.  :o

Re: OPINION : Our Next Premiership - Without Judd & Co ??

Reply #25 –
Quote from: kruddler on
Quote from: PassIt2Carrots on
We are far from a serious threat in 2015 with all those star players coming to the end. We are dropping off in 2015 compared to 2014 IMO.

You say this, and have a go at me for suggesting Carrazzo might be forced into retirement this year.  :o

My issue wasn't with whether the prediction would come to fruition, fruition being the operative word here. ;)
Ignorance is bliss.

ONWARDS AND UPWARDS!

Re: OPINION : Our Next Premiership - Without Judd & Co ??

Reply #26 –
Who we pick up at the end of the season could be make or break for us and determine if we start making a big push in 2015. Sure our players should be better this season rather than last season. Sure we were as close as any side to beating teams way above us on the ladder. We just need the right depth to cover for the players about to leave. Also covering a key defender and a key forward to the mix.

Players that step up that make the difference to our squad.

Gibbs
Kreuzer
Murphy
Armfield
Casboult
Rowe
Curnow
Menzel
Watson

The others just need to consolidate performances that go week in week out. Tuohy, Warnock types and others we have may just keep us in the mix each and every game. One can pray at least. ;)
This digital world is too much for us insects to understand.

Re: OPINION : Our Next Premiership - Without Judd & Co ??

Reply #27 –
Want to believe it will be with Judd and co. but struggling to. I feel the core of our group are not up to taking us all the way yet and will mean we miss the Judd window, with the expansion teams looming and others its not nice to think about. Hope I get proven wrong!

Re: OPINION : Our Next Premiership - Without Judd & Co ??

Reply #28 –
Quote from: Jean-Claude on
Want to believe it will be with Judd and co. but struggling to. I feel the core of our group are not up to taking us all the way yet and will mean we miss the Judd window, with the expansion teams looming and others its not nice to think about. Hope I get proven wrong!

I'd like to be optimistic but we have our work cut out for sure! I'd be happy with top six this year.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: OPINION : Our Next Premiership - Without Judd & Co ??

Reply #29 –
Opps, wrong thread.
Mens sana in corpore sano - A healthy mind in a healthy body.

Navy, it's not just a color, it's an attitude !!!