Based on the fact that Casboult has signed a one-year extension, Jones has another year to go on his contract and young McKay is still learning the caper, I'm somewhat concerned about how we will structure up in 2017.
The forward-line is certainly one of our issues to be dealt with at a list management level but how do we improve on what we had this season essentially with the same forward personnel ??
Is it only a matter of bolstering the midfield platoon or is there something else we can do tactically to make it more potent ??
Casboult either in the goal square or on the wing / occasional ruck.
Jones CHF, Everitt 3rd tall, 2E as HFF, Wright and someone else (Mr Magoo?) as crumbers.
One big problem I see is that our F50 entries are too shallow - i.e too close to the 50 m arc. I want to see more run and carry from the players, especially the few who have pace, doing a lot more run and carry. The final ball movement that launches the ball into F50 must be closer to the F50 arc, so that the entry is deeper and closer to the goal square.
I want to see intense F50 pressure from our forwards. I want them to lock it in there as if their lives depend on it. If some of them actually focus more on the defensive aspects and less on kicking goals, I'd be happy with that. The ball comes out of our F50 far too easily.
EDIT - I haven't seen enough of the young kids to comment - so SOJ, Chuck C and Harry M might be substitutes for the above. That's for others to comment on.
Mckay at CHF, Patrick Kerr at FF, Jack in the pocket.....and leave them there for the season....the others wont be taking us anywhere...
Key forwards: Two of C.Curnow, McKay, Jaksch
2nd ruck: Casboult, he can ruck and provide that big body forward support for the youngsters
Plus SOS and a couple of runners
I think the way the fwd line functions needs to be rejigged to make it less predictable. Needs some seriously innovative/creative thinking over the summer. Would also like to see structures that alllow our fwds to get behind defenders and poach more goals more often.
I think the way the fwd line functions needs to be rejigged to make it less predictable. Needs some seriously innovative/creative thinking over the summer. Would also like to see structures that alllow our fwds to get behind defenders and poach more goals more often.
The three amigos used to do plenty of that a few seasons back.
Further to my reply #1, I'd also be instructing guys like 2E (from time to time) to roost the ball at goal from the F50 arc. Talls in the goal square can either act as decoys or mark / bring the ball to ground, with crumbers doing their thing as required.
I'm a bit over the "Casboult does his best work as second ruck" line. He doesn't; his best work is done when he works up the ground from centre half forward. Furthermore, his knee injury probably means that he won't be able to pinch hit in the ruck again.
Our tall forward stocks are limited with McKay still to make his debut, Jaksch looking more and more like another list management blunder, Jones providing effort but not much return and Weitering and Rowe required down back. Casboult is our remaining forward option and our forward structure should capitalise on his marking strength while minimising reliance on his kicking for goal. He should play as a high forward with his main focus on getting possession outside the 50 and occupying the goal square when there's a set shot from the 50.
We have to play another tall forward, and that could be McKay, perhaps Gorringe, or someone who isn't on our list yet. Charlie Curnow has shown enough to be pencilled in as a lead up forward and SOJ has shown that he is what I would call an opportunistic forward able to score from leads, finding space, crumbing and defensive pressure. Wright is a very good small forward/midfielder but there's still a spot for a genuine crumbing forward and a specialist defensive forward. Sumner and Armfield are contenders but are not certainties. Finally, we need Cripps, Gibbs, Murphy, Kerridge, Ed Curnow, Everitt, Thomas (if he goes around again), Kreuzer and Phillips to have an impact when they go forward.
Apart from Casboult's kicking, the forwards need to learn some running patterns so that they can create space as well as getting behind the defenders to make it easier for our inside 50s to hit targets.
I would start off with:
Charlie Curnow Casboult to be determined/recruited
Silvagni to be determined/recruited Wright
I'm a bit over the "Casboult does his best work as second ruck" line. He doesn't; his best work is done when he works up the ground from centre half forward. Furthermore, his knee injury probably means that he won't be able to pinch hit in the ruck again.
Casboult's role was significantly different after he hurt his leg.
Ever noticed how much attention Casboult gets? The opposition knows that if he gets a good run at the ball he will clunk it. Sometimes he is triple teamed when the ball comes in. We need to come up with some set plays that take advantage of this.
I don't know what the specific answer is, but if the opposition is going to exhibit predictable behaviour then maybe we can turn that into an advantage.
I'm a bit over the "Casboult does his best work as second ruck" line. He doesn't; his best work is done when he works up the ground from centre half forward. Furthermore, his knee injury probably means that he won't be able to pinch hit in the ruck again.
Well we agree on something! :D
Ever noticed how much attention Casboult gets? The opposition knows that if he gets a good run at the ball he will clunk it. Sometimes he is triple teamed when the ball comes in. We need to come up with some set plays that take advantage of this.
I don't know what the specific answer is, but if the opposition is going to exhibit predictable behaviour then maybe we can turn that into an advantage.
He needs to learn to use his bulk, for a guy who is 200cm x 100kg he's way to easy to offload, another reason why he is useless in the ruck. He should be hurting some of those guys who are beating up on him each week and they'll start to hesitate when they have to step into his line. Why do you think Mumford and Goldstein get a free run at the ball each stoppage, it's not because they are kind and gentle!
Casboult is almost Lockett size, how many would have had long AFL careers stepping in Lockett's way?
I dont know why you would want him using his bulk.
Much better to let him have multiple opponents, and for us to hit the free player with the ball rather than aim for him, and he can just roam around getting the odd kick, and the odd get out of jail high ball in.
Its not like we have a plethora of crumbing forwards.
Ever noticed how much attention Casboult gets? The opposition knows that if he gets a good run at the ball he will clunk it. Sometimes he is triple teamed when the ball comes in. We need to come up with some set plays that take advantage of this.
I don't know what the specific answer is, but if the opposition is going to exhibit predictable behaviour then maybe we can turn that into an advantage.
The opposition analysts must have a different view of Casboult's ability than some supporters have :o
I think that there are several angles to the opposition's focus on Casboult and the obvious response is kick it to someone else. However, having other genuine marking options will spread the defenders and force one on one competitions. Casboult's running patterns need work so that he can get free and playing him up the ground will draw defenders away from the contest. How the forward line is structured and functions needs some work and the delivery to the forwards has to change; don't just kick it on to Casboult's head.
Casboult is almost Lockett size, how many would have had long AFL careers stepping in Lockett's way?
Dunno but you could ask Peter Caven what that feels like ;D
I dont know why you would want him using his bulk.
Much better to let him have multiple opponents, and for us to hit the free player with the ball rather than aim for him, and he can just roam around getting the odd kick, and the odd get out of jail high ball in.
Its not like we have a plethora of crumbing forwards.
In a team that struggles to hit the side of a barn you cannot expect too much clean delivery.
We used to have crumbing forwards, they spent most of their time flying against the talls instead of getting front and square. Betts is better at Adelaide because he has reduced how much he flies for the ball. When he was at Carlton we would kick it over the likes of Kreuzer, Hampson and O'Hailpin to sit it on Bett's or Walker's head in the square, and we are not much better now!
I'm a bit over the "Casboult does his best work as second ruck" line. He doesn't; his best work is done when he works up the ground from centre half forward. Furthermore, his knee injury probably means that he won't be able to pinch hit in the ruck again.
Our tall forward stocks are limited with McKay still to make his debut, Jaksch looking more and more like another list management blunder, Jones providing effort but not much return and Weitering and Rowe required down back. Casboult is our remaining forward option and our forward structure should capitalise on his marking strength while minimising reliance on his kicking for goal. He should play as a high forward with his main focus on getting possession outside the 50 and occupying the goal square when there's a set shot from the 50.
We have to play another tall forward, and that could be McKay, perhaps Gorringe, or someone who isn't on our list yet. Charlie Curnow has shown enough to be pencilled in as a lead up forward and SOJ has shown that he is what I would call an opportunistic forward able to score from leads, finding space, crumbing and defensive pressure. Wright is a very good small forward/midfielder but there's still a spot for a genuine crumbing forward and a specialist defensive forward. Sumner and Armfield are contenders but are not certainties. Finally, we need Cripps, Gibbs, Murphy, Kerridge, Ed Curnow, Everitt, Thomas (if he goes around again), Kreuzer and Phillips to have an impact when they go forward.
Apart from Casboult's kicking, the forwards need to learn some running patterns so that they can create space as well as getting behind the defenders to make it easier for our inside 50s to hit targets.
I would start off with:
Charlie Curnow Casboult to be determined/recruited
Silvagni to be determined/recruited Wright
Casboult has consistently done his best work when he's forward/2nd ruck. That's been that way ever since he come into the side. Not sure how anyone could argue with that. A run on the ball always helps him no end. I'd prefer him 2nd rucking rather than one of our other ruckmen who do sweet FA when they are not rucking. Like having 17 men on the ground.
Casboult has consistently done his best work when he's forward/2nd ruck. That's been that way ever since he come into the side. Not sure how anyone could argue with that. A run on the ball always helps him no end. I'd prefer him 2nd rucking rather than one of our other ruckmen who do sweet FA when they are not rucking. Like having 17 men on the ground.
Where are the facts and stats to support your case, put up some hard detail?
^^
LP, I would say at this point, its not worth posting numbers.
The argument has merit. Casboult does perform better playing up the ground be it part time rucking, or getting on his bike.
Dont really need to support it statistically. We see it most weeks. He usually gains confidence and kicks better for it too when its time to score goals.
The argument of we need another target in our forward line is generally acceptable. One that can allow him to get up the ground so he can perform better. It also shows benefit to our team in the wins we had this year as he generally played better with Jones and Everitt in the side.
I know you fixate on ruck contests a bit, but its not an argument worth making. Casboult is a different type to Kreuzer. They can work together.
Casboult is C grade at best where ever he plays.
Casboult is C grade at best where ever he plays.
Exactamundo!
LP, I would say at this point, its not worth posting numbers.
Facts are always worth posting, they debug bogus opinions!
The argument has merit. Casboult does perform better playing up the ground be it part time rucking, or getting on his bike.
No it doesn't it's a rubbish argument unsupported by facts.
Dont really need to support it statistically. We see it most weeks. He usually gains confidence and kicks better for it too when its time to score goals.
It must be the vibe! :D
The argument of we need another target in our forward line is generally acceptable. One that can allow him to get up the ground so he can perform better. It also shows benefit to our team in the wins we had this year as he generally played better with Jones and Everitt in the side.
No problem, as long as it is instead of rather than with or alongside.
I know you fixate on ruck contests a bit, but its not an argument worth making. Casboult is a different type to Kreuzer. They can work together.
Yes Kreuzer is effectively an extra midfielder, Casboult is an extra spectator!
(http://www.sbs.com.au/comedy/sites/sbs.com.au.comedy/files/styles/body_image/public/rrr.jpg?itok=hQ4_vgiK&mtime=1470368971)
Show me the empirical evidence!
Well we agree on something! :D
I think we agree more often than we disagree - but I'm more than happy to debate that ;)
Yes Kreuzer is effectively an extra midfielder, Casboult is an extra spectator!
That is champagne comedy, well done my good sir. ;D ;D ;D ;D
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-09-15/treloar-puopolo-is-like-a-bull-at-a-gate
In a way, it's a dopey article, but this is what I want from our small forwards - what small forwards I hear you ask...............
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-09-15/treloar-puopolo-is-like-a-bull-at-a-gate
In a way, it's a dopey article, but this is what I want from our small forwards - what small forwards I hear you ask...............
305 tackles and 125 goals between Rioli, Puopolo and Breust this season :o
I'd take that from any three of our players, let alone three small forwards. In fact, I'd be satisfied if four of our blokes could rack up those numbers between them.
305 tackles and 125 goals between Rioli, Puopolo and Breust this season :o
I'd take that from any three of our players, let alone three small forwards. In fact, I'd be satisfied if four of our blokes could rack up those numbers between them.
Yes, they're pretty decent numbers, that's for sure.
Casboult is C grade at best where ever he plays.
This hits the nail on the head.
I never thought I'd say that Jones is a better option than anyone but he's better than Levi, at least he can change direction and has a bit of pace.
But really we'd be better off ditching both of them and playing a smaller front 6 like Footscray did when they didn't have a key forward, it won't win flags but it will win more games than we do now.
Footscray still haven't got what you'd call a power forward but they're in the Grannie this weekend all the same.
I'd run with Charlie Curnow and Silvagni and hope that McKay comes through, let them grow into the job together.
This hits the nail on the head.
I never thought I'd say that Jones is a better option than anyone but he's better than Levi, at least he can change direction and has a bit of pace.
But really we'd be better off ditching both of them and playing a smaller front 6 like Footscray did when they didn't have a key forward, it won't win flags but it will win more games than we do now.
Footscray still haven't got what you'd call a power forward but they're in the Grannie this weekend all the same.
I'd run with Charlie Curnow and Silvagni and hope that McKay comes through, let them grow into the job together.
I'd recruit Patrick Kerr and get a player who can lead for the ball properly and kick straight.....
Charlie Curnow is too valuable around the ground IMO to leave as a permanent forward.....could be Kouta version II and we need more players who can run on the ball and get the thing forward....
Casboult, Jones etc cant kick so its a waste of time making them KP forwards......
I'd recruit Patrick Kerr and get a player who can lead for the ball properly and kick straight.....
Charlie Curnow is too valuable around the ground IMO to leave as a permanent forward.....could be Kouta version II and we need more players who can run on the ball and get the thing forward....
Casboult, Jones etc cant kick so its a waste of time making them KP forwards......
Yep, it's a pity we can't have a GF&S rule for Patty.
I'd recruit Patrick Kerr and get a player who can lead for the ball properly and kick straight.....
Charlie Curnow is too valuable around the ground IMO to leave as a permanent forward.....could be Kouta version II and we need more players who can run on the ball and get the thing forward....
Casboult, Jones etc cant kick so its a waste of time making them KP forwards......
Cant argue with any of that.
Dogs have done pretty well so far without a key forward.
It seems that Murphy will spend more time as a forward this season:
Lingering shoulder concerns meant Murphy played more of an outside midfielder role early last season, but having overcome those issues, Murphy flagged not only more time as an inside midfielder, but also rests closer to goal.
"Certainly this year I've done a lot of training inside so I'll play a lot inside mid, filter on a wing, and then also go deep forward as well," Murphy told RSN on Tuesday.
I like the idea of Murphy spending more time as a forward. He won't take mark of the year but he can find space and kick truly.
Means we need to find another mid.
Means we need to find another mid.
The thing that struck me when I read the article is that Bolton must believe we can cover Murphy when he goes forward. If he's right, that's equally as good as having Murphy as a goalsneak.
I'm wondering if Murphys shoulder is 100%, we have plenty of new talent that can fill the forward pocket role but lack genuine class mids who cn run , carry and deliver...
Teams will be lining Murphy up to test that shoulder, hope we have some plans in place....
I'm wondering if Murphys shoulder is 100%, we have plenty of new talent that can fill the forward pocket role but lack genuine class mids who cn run , carry and deliver...
Teams will be lining Murphy up to test that shoulder, hope we have some plans in place....
I doubt that he'd be preparing to play as an inside mid if his shoulder is crook.
I'd be more concerned about someone stomping his ankle.
Heard late last year we may use Marchbank forward. Bit hard to have all of Marchbank, Weitering, Rowe and Plowman all in defence. So Marchbank and McKay forward, Casboult can 2nd ruck with Phillips injured.
Heard late last year we may use Marchbank forward. Bit hard to have all of Marchbank, Weitering, Rowe and Plowman all in defence. So Marchbank and McKay forward, Casboult can 2nd ruck with Phillips injured.
It would depend on the match ups but Rowe is the only one who couldn't stand a medium or small forward.
It's unlikely that Casboult will ruck again after his knee injury. From what I've seen, he hasn't taken part in any of the midfield/ruck drills.
Rowe and/or Gorringe are more likely to pinch hit in the ruck. Korcheck could get a run in the pre-season games.
The thing that struck me when I read the article is that Bolton must believe we can cover Murphy when he goes forward. If he's right, that's equally as good as having Murphy as a goalsneak.
Murphy isn't going to play the whole game in the middle.
When he is due for a rest, he goes to the FP instead of the bench. Cuts down on rotations + adds much needed class+experience to the forward line in the meantime
Does Matthew Wright shed some light on where our goals are going to come from in 2017?
After finishing last season as the second-lowest scoring team in the competition, Carlton is focusing on kicking more goals in 2017, forward Matthew Wright says.
...
Wright, 27, said having more people contributing in attack would help the side improve.
"We'd like to kick a few more goals. The more players we can get bobbing up kicking goals each week makes us harder to defend, and it looks good on the scoreboard as well," Wright said.
"A lot of work we're doing is towards kicking more goals but we want to get better at defending and through the midfield as well."
Levi Casboult looms as one of the keys to Carlton's attacking prowess. His marking ability isn't in question – he finished seventh in the competition for contested marks per game in 2016 – but he booted 18.18.
The Blues brought back goalkicking great Saverio Rocca as a specialist coach, and he has worked with Casboult to rectify his inaccuracy.
When Rocca was at the club in 2015, Casboult booted 24.12 – the best return of his career.
"(Casboult's) working as hard as anyone to correct that," Wright said.
"If you look at the best goalkickers across the comp and you look at their statistics, I'm sure they'd like to be a lot better as well.
"It's something he's working at and I'm working at and everyone is at the minute. Even the defenders bob up for a bit of goalkicking."
Harder work in defence and the midfield, more players looking to score, better conversion rate and Levi doing his job. Sounds like a plan :)
Does Matthew Wright shed some light on where our goals are going to come from in 2017?
Harder work in defence and the midfield, more players looking to score, better conversion rate and Levi doing his job. Sounds like a plan :)
Sounds like a puff piece.
Sounds like a puff piece.
Why do you have to be so negative :(
Supporters are desperate for information about training and players' progress. Of course Wright's comments aren't a detailed analysis of our forward structures but they do indicate that Bolton is following up on his intention to focus more on kicking winning scores.
....they do indicate that Bolton is following up on his intention to focus more on kicking winning scores.
Wow. There is a headline!
What is the alternative?
He is happy with the amount of goals we were kicking last year?
He thinks we kicked too many goals last year?
Frankly, this should be our #1 priority and i would think would go without saying.
If people get excited about reading that sort of thing, well, they are easily pleased.
Wow. There is a headline!
What is the alternative?
He is happy with the amount of goals we were kicking last year?
He thinks we kicked too many goals last year?
Frankly, this should be our #1 priority and i would think would go without saying.
If people get excited about reading that sort of thing, well, they are easily pleased.
"We won't be involved in trading this year, we think we've got enough improvement in the list..." ????????
From DJC,s quote from the puff piece Cas has had less than 40 scoring shots in each of the past two years... but someone will tip him to kick 40 goals this year...
Wow. There is a headline!
What is the alternative?
He is happy with the amount of goals we were kicking last year?
He thinks we kicked too many goals last year?
Frankly, this should be our #1 priority and i would think would go without saying.
If people get excited about reading that sort of thing, well, they are easily pleased.
I know you don't like being reminded about the past but I think you would have to admit that our 2015 gameplan and results were abysmal. Bolton made it very clear from the start that his priority was to fix our defensive game and I think he has made a huge improvement. Addressing the effectiveness of our forward line is another step in a well thought out and well articulated strategy for sustainable success.
It really is quite sad that you don't like reading about how we are going about rebuilding the club.
From DJC,s quote from the puff piece Cas has had less than 40 scoring shots in each of the past two years... but someone will tip him to kick 40 goals this year...
What about the shots that fail to score? :)
It would be huge if Casboult got 40 goals in 2017. While I'm expecting an improvement on 18, I think that it will be increased contributions from other forwards and midfielders that will be the difference this season.
It really is quite sad that you don't like reading about how we are going about rebuilding the club.
It really is quite sad that you need to be told this is what is required to rebuild the club.
Its a puff piece. Simple.
Nothing wrong with puff pieces, better than the alternative. Just don't expect me to go put a gorilla on us to win the flag based on this 'new info'.
Puff piece 101.
We want to stop the opposition from kicking goals.
We want to kick more goals.
We want to attack and win the contest
It really is quite sad that you need to be told this is what is required to rebuild the club.
Its a puff piece. Simple.
Nothing wrong with puff pieces, better than the alternative. Just don't expect me to go put a gorilla on us to win the flag based on this 'new info'.
Puff piece 101.
We want to stop the opposition from kicking goals.
We want to kick more goals.
We want to attack and win the contest
Quite frankly I'd prefer to listen to what the coaches and players have to say than to read your thoughts on the matter. Yes, they have to stay on message, not give too much away and aren't able to go into great depth but they do know what they're talking about :)
Quite frankly I'd prefer to listen to what the coaches and players have to say than to read your thoughts on the matter. Yes, they have to stay on message, not give too much away and aren't able to go into great depth but they do know what they're talking about :)
Be my guest continue to get excited about these puff pieces. If you don't understand any of it, my 2yo can explain it for you. ;)
Be my guest continue to get excited about these puff pieces. If you don't understand any of it, my 2yo can explain it for you. ;)
Perhaps you should listen a little more to your 2yo ;)
Our forward structure is about getting as many games into McKay, Kerr, Silvagni and Curnow (half forward/mid) as possible. That is our future up forward and the sooner we come to terms with it the better I feel. Really interested in seeing how some of our new smalls go as well.
What about the shots that fail to score? :)
It would be huge if Casboult got 40 goals in 2017. While I'm expecting an improvement on 18, I think that it will be increased contributions from other forwards and midfielders that will be the difference this season.
We all want an improvement, his best return is 24...
Our forward structure is about getting as many games into McKay, Kerr, Silvagni and Curnow (half forward/mid) as possible. That is our future up forward and the sooner we come to terms with it the better I feel. Really interested in seeing how some of our new smalls go as well.
Yes. Well said J-C.
I think we all know which players are shorter term, and which are likely (with a little luck) our future forwards.
Our short term prospects, aside from scoring to the best of their ability, are important in developing our future. So whilst we can criticise kicking action's etc. there's another level of expertise at play. For example, whilst I hope Levi scores more, I really want him to support the youngsters. Be that with his superb marking displays, tireless training ethic, work off the ball, or taking the heat of the monsters to provide scoring opportunities. The smalls and talls can be beneficiaries and learn just how it's done. Gotta say if I was starting out as a forward, I love to know big Levi's got my back.
Go Blues.
Yes. Well said J-C.
I think we all know which players are shorter term, and which are likely (with a little luck) our future forwards.
Our short term prospects, aside from scoring to the best of their ability, are important in developing our future. So whilst we can criticise kicking action's etc. there's another level of expertise at play. For example, whilst I hope Levi scores more, I really want him to support the youngsters. Be that with his superb marking displays, tireless training ethic, work off the ball, or taking the heat of the monsters to provide scoring opportunities. The smalls and talls can be beneficiaries and learn just how it's done. Gotta say if I was starting out as a forward, I love to know big Levi's got my back.
Go Blues.
Very true NM.
Very true NM.
Any throwing his weight around. The guy's a beast, he needs to show some mongrel!
Any throwing his weight around. The guy's a beast, he needs to show some mongrel!
I would prefer him to show some controlled mongrel - no reports please!
Have you ever watched the defenders vs forwards bumping contests at the start of each quarter? The defenders do their best to stay away from Levi - not that I blame them :)
I would prefer him to show some controlled mongrel - no reports please!
Have you ever watched the defenders vs forwards bumping contests at the start of each quarter? The defenders do their best to stay away from Levi - not that I blame them :)
Indeed, most are wary and some of the Bolt.
He's no Fev but can be a very handy player.
Honestly i reckon the Hawks would have preferred him to Tyrone V.
Have you ever watched the defenders vs forwards bumping contests at the start of each quarter? The defenders do their best to stay away from Levi - not that I blame them :)
Most teams (should) have a do's/don'ts dossier of sorts on each player. Casboult plays better angry, so i wouldn't want to make him angry and i doubt any defender does either.
We all want an improvement, his best return is 24...
yes, but 24 goals from 16 games. Average 1.5 a game.
He kicked 18.18 last year. Not difficult, with a stronger midfield to turn that into 30 goals plus....
yes, but 24 goals from 16 games. Average 1.5 a game.
He kicked 18.18 last year. Not difficult, with a stronger midfield to turn that into 30 goals plus....
Hey, we'll all be happy... you feel free, but I'm not putting my house on it though.
Vickery goes at about 30 goals a season...bit better than I thought....
Vickery goes at about 30 goals a season...bit better than I thought....
I've said before that Vickery will be someone who turns out to be a very important player for the hawks. Will be as good as Gunston if given the opportunity and healthy body.
Vickery goes at about 30 goals a season...bit better than I thought....
Hawthorn will be pleased with his first up efforts; 10 disposals, 7 hitouts and 0 marks ...
A spud cooked a different way us still a spud.
Does everyone discount the possibility of Weitering playing forward?
With all the defensive cover I thought it more likely than not that he or potentially Marchbank would be in the forward line.
Backline:
Byrne/White | Rowe | Plow
Simmo | Marchbank | Doc
Also: A Silvagni/Sheehan
Forward line talls:
CCurnow | McKay | Cas | Weit | SOSOS
Smalls: Sumner | Lamb | Smedts | Palmer | Armfield | Pickett | Lebois | Wright | SPS
I think Weitering in that forward line adds a lot of class and makes it look pretty dangerous whilst not leaving the backline short handed.
Does everyone discount the possibility of Weitering playing forward?
With all the defensive cover I thought it more likely than not that he or potentially Marchbank would be in the forward line.
Backline:
Byrne/White | Rowe | Plow
Simmo | Marchbank | Doc
Also: A Silvagni/Sheehan
Forward line talls:
CCurnow | McKay | Cas | Weit | SOSOS
Smalls: Sumner | Lamb | Smedts | Palmer | Armfield | Pickett | Lebois | Wright | SPS
I think Weitering in that forward line adds a lot of class and makes it look pretty dangerous whilst not leaving the backline short handed.
Jeza I agree we'll have some other forward options. I posted this in 'predictions' thread.
We've heard a couple of the guys talk about training with more than one group. Sam Rowe was one. Personally I think we'll mix it up. Maybe see some master strokes by Bolts. What's it he says, get comfortable being uncomfortable. Until our future forward stocks develop, I think we'll improvise by creating less conventional options. Weitering, although a great defender, was reportedly known pre-draft to kick "everything from anywhere". I wouldn't be surprised to see him (or other tall/small combos), Rowe, or Marchbank rolling forward.
I happened to be at a friend's birthday party yesterday where I met an ex-AFL umpire who still knows a fair few AFL insiders. He was pretty adamant that Weitering will spend more than a bit of time playing forward this year. We'll see.
Tall forward options will be there - how permanent they are (probably apart from Casboult early on) is anyone's guess. Much depends on the young bodies, injury/illness, horses for courses, etc.
Casboult
McKay
C.Curnow
J.Silvagni
Weitering
Plowman
Rowe
Marchbank
Kreuzer
They'll all 'roll' through the forward line as the key talls.
In the magoos - Gorringe, Jones, Jaksch, Kerr, Macreadie.
This year, again, we'll watch and see who does what and how they all go about their footy, both at AFL and VFL levels.
Side note - I'm looking forward to the progress of a couple of rookies - Glass-McCasker and Lebois.
Jones and Jaksch will have to do something remarkable this year to hold a spot....Levi too i guess....
Jones and Jaksch will have to do something remarkable this year to hold a spot....Levi too i guess....
You look at the guys coming through and it's now or never for those 2. Jaksch may get a rookie spot somewhere else at best. Jones definitely done - if they don't produce something amazing this season. Hopefully they can pull their careers put of the fire!
Footage of training shows Rowe and Casboult competing in ruck contests and Casboult involved in stoppage drills. It may be just to provide cover while Phillips is out but it's possible that Jim may get his wish and Casboult will play as key forward and back up ruckman.
My concerns about Casboult's knee injury preventing him from rucking appear to be without foundation.
Footage of training shows Rowe and Casboult competing in ruck contests and Casboult involved in stoppage drills. It may be just to provide cover while Phillips is out but it's possible that Jim may get his wish and Casboult will play as key forward and back up ruckman.
My concerns about Casboult's knee injury preventing him from rucking appear to be without foundation.
Footage I saw also shows Marchbank slotting a beautiful goal from tight against the fence on the wrong side for a right footer. Hmmmm.
Footage of training shows Rowe and Casboult competing in ruck contests and Casboult involved in stoppage drills. It may be just to provide cover while Phillips is out but it's possible that Jim may get his wish and Casboult will play as key forward and back up ruckman.
My concerns about Casboult's knee injury preventing him from rucking appear to be without foundation.
With the ruck rule changes, Cas and Rowe may be very useful rucking around the ground perhaps using their strength. Dunno really!!
I've said before that Vickery will be someone who turns out to be a very important player for the hawks. Will be as good as Gunston if given the opportunity and healthy body.
What were you smoking when you wrote that?
What were you smoking when you wrote that?
;D
I don't smoke or partake of other mind altering substances but I reckon there could be some truth in K's statement. Vickery's main problem has been feckwittery and the Hawks environment may fix that.
;D
I don't smoke or partake of other mind altering substances but I reckon there could be some truth in K's statement. Vickery's main problem has been feckwittery and the Hawks environment may fix that.
Clarkson is a very good coach but he's not a miracle worker ;)
Clarkson is a very good coach but he's not a miracle worker ;)
I will be watching with interest. I did hear that he'd also ordered in five loaves and two fishes for the Hawks next family day. ;)
What were you smoking when you wrote that?
Not my scene mate, but remember that post after he kicks a bag and wins the hawks the game* ;)
* This is assuming he doesn't succumb to injury.....i need these caveats in the same post because you seem to dig them up later and ignore them in an attempt to point score.
Not my scene mate, but remember that post after he kicks a bag and wins the hawks the game* ;)
* This is assuming he doesn't succumb to injury.....i need these caveats in the same post because you seem to dig them up later and ignore them in an attempt to point score.
I sort of hope you're right, because he's an embarrassment to the game. Personally I think the Fugu Kick Specialist is more likely to turn left into a goal post and do a Where is Wally for the remainder of the game. He has a tendency to make Kosi look coherent!
I sort of hope you're right, because he's an embarrassment to the game. Personally I think the Fugu Kick Specialist is more likely to turn left into a goal post and do a Where is Wally for the remainder of the game. He has a tendency to make Kosi look coherent!
;D ;D ;D
Interesting observations from Sam Edmund of the HUN :
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/carlton/carlton-coach-brendon-bolton-keeping-it-simple-with-new-game-plan/news-story/46ae3b51c996f37592e012fc8e761d3b
Interesting observations from Sam Edmund of the HUN :
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/carlton/carlton-coach-brendon-bolton-keeping-it-simple-with-new-game-plan/news-story/46ae3b51c996f37592e012fc8e761d3b
Thanks Sheik.
That explains the sluggish ball movement I've been complaining about. I can see why he's doing it, but I still don't like it. More time chipping around means more opportunity to turn it over, more often in the wrong part of the ground.
Thanks Sheik.
That explains the sluggish ball movement I've been complaining about. I can see why he's doing it, but I still don't like it. More time chipping around means more opportunity to turn it over, more often in the wrong part of the ground.
Personally, I see this sort of stuff as a developing of Plan B or C.
We complained for years that Carlton only had one plan, when things were not working we had nothing else to offer.
If Edmund is correct, and that's a big "if", it may be that BB is teaching the recruits some alternate plans one plan at a time!
But think about this, if they can learn ways to win under such a diversity of plans, then that can only be a good thing! ;D
Sort of fits with BB's mantra, get comfortable at being uncomfortable!
Thanks Sheik.
That explains the sluggish ball movement I've been complaining about. I can see why he's doing it, but I still don't like it. More time chipping around means more opportunity to turn it over, more often in the wrong part of the ground.
The sluggish ball movement is more a comment on the structure of the forward line. Quite noticeable that we are getting better at setting the tempo of the game, and thus controlling it. If we have the ball, the other side doesn't. Squeeze the opposition out of the match by starvation - Hawthorn 2013-15 was based on this.
Once we get a bit more potency in the front half and get scoreboard reward for the control, we will be a difficult team to beat.
Personally, I see this sort of stuff as a developing of Plan B or C.
We complained for years that Carlton only had one plan, when things were not working we had nothing else to offer.
If Edmund is correct, and that's a big "if", it may be that BB is teaching the recruits some alternate plans one plan at a time!
But think about this, if they can learn ways to win under such a diversity of plans, then that can only be a good thing! ;D
Sort of fits with BB's mantra, get comfortable at being uncomfortable!
I'm not sure that proving to the world that we know how to catch and kick is really going to achieve all that much.
My opinion is that the KISS game plan has more to do with :
a. Bolton's personality
b. his pedigree at the Hawks
than any teaching of either skills or alternate game plan.
One concern I have (among many) is that both the AFL rules and the top teams at the moment (Crows, GWS etc.) have both great leg speed and speed of ball movement. I don't really want our team to be left behind on this score.
It seems to me that Bolton is implementing a tweaked version of the Hawks precise kicking game style, which is fine if you have the personnel and understanding to pull it off. The Hawks scoring capacity have been declining steadily over the last few years, and is one reason among many why they have fallen off the pace.
The sluggish ball movement is more a comment on the structure of the forward line. Quite noticeable that we are getting better at setting the tempo of the game, and thus controlling it. If we have the ball, the other side doesn't. Squeeze the opposition out of the match by starvation - Hawthorn 2013-15 was based on this.
Once we get a bit more potency in the front half and get scoreboard reward for the control, we will be a difficult team to beat.
See my post above.
I think we need to add a couple of classy players between half back and half forward before the forward line.
Personally I would throw a kitchen sink at Josh Kelly this year and Marcus Bontampelli next year and pray to god that SPS, Graham, Cunningham come good.
One concern I have (among many) is that both the AFL rules and the top teams at the moment (Crows, GWS etc.) have both great leg speed and speed of ball movement. I don't really want our team to be left behind on this score.
It seems to me that Bolton is implementing a tweaked version of the Hawks precise kicking game style, which is fine if you have the personnel and understanding to pull it off. The Hawks scoring capacity have been declining steadily over the last few years, and is one reason among many why they have fallen off the pace.
We don't have the cattle to play the same way as those teams. At best we can be a 'poor mans version'. Why would you bother?
Better to go your own way and play a brand that is designed to be played by the blokes you have. If you are the best at playing the way you want to play, then you have the potential to be the best in the league. If you are the 3rd best at playing the way you want to play (or worse) you have basically zero chance of being the best in the league.
We don't have the cattle to play the same way as those teams. At best we can be a 'poor mans version'. Why would you bother?
Better to go your own way and play a brand that is designed to be played by the blokes you have. If you are the best at playing the way you want to play, then you have the potential to be the best in the league. If you are the 3rd best at playing the way you want to play (or worse) you have basically zero chance of being the best in the league.
Whilst I understand there are some limits to how much you can mold a player to play different styles (if you want to play fast leg footy, recruit Gary Rohan types rather than Brock McLean types), I would've thought most players can adapt and play different ways. My personal opinion is that Bolts is gong with what he knows, and what he feels comfortable with.
You could also argue that we don't really have the cattle to play kick and catch, given the frequency with which we turn it over.
There is a point at which you must have a look at what other teams are doing, especially the successful ones. We're not competing with ourselves.
Whilst I understand there are some limits to how much you can mold a player to play different styles (if you want to play fast leg footy, recruit Gary Rohan types rather than Brock McLean types), I would've thought most players can adapt and play different ways. My personal opinion is that Bolts is gong with what he knows, and what he feels comfortable with.
You could also argue that we don't really have the cattle to play kick and catch, given the frequency with which we turn it over.
There is a point at which you must have a look at what other teams are doing, especially the successful ones. We're not competing with ourselves.
Bold point 1: That goes agains his stated mantra of "be comfortable being uncomfortable".
Bold point 2: We haved turned it over much much less since the Ess game I reckon. I would love to see the stats on TO's but I cant find any.
Bold point 1: That goes agains his stated mantra of "be comfortable being uncomfortable".
Bold point 2: We haved turned it over much much less since the Ess game I reckon. I would love to see the stats on TO's but I cant find any.
GTC, I'd be wary of taking mantras as being applicable 100% of the time.
I'd be keen to see the stats as well. I haven't seen the Ess game, but I certainly saw the Swans game, and it's no coincidence that we looked better with some zing, speed and spark around the contest. We finally looked like a team that might trouble the scorers once in a striped moon.
GTC, I'd be wary of taking mantras as being applicable 100% of the time.
Why? Its one of the pillars he is basing his teachings on, its meant to strengthen the resolve off the players, especially when things get tuff. Things get tuff very often during a reset/rebuild hence why its important I think.
Why? Its one of the pillars he is basing his teachings on, its meant to strengthen the resolve off the players, especially when things get tuff. Things get tuff very often during a reset/rebuild hence why its important I think.
If he, as a coach, wanted to get comfy being uncomfy, he'd be willing to "let go of the steering wheel" and cut loose more, rather than sticking to what he knows. I reckon he did it in the Swans game, and I'd like to see more of that.
If he, as a coach, wanted to get comfy being uncomfy, he'd be willing to "let go of the steering wheel" and cut loose more, rather than sticking to what he knows. I reckon he did it in the Swans game, and I'd like to see more of that.
Not sure I understand what you mean.
GTC, I'd be wary of taking mantras as being applicable 100% of the time.
I'd be keen to see the stats as well. I haven't seen the Ess game, but I certainly saw the Swans game, and it's no coincidence that we looked better with some zing, speed and spark around the contest. We finally looked like a team that might trouble the scorers once in a striped moon.
You just kinda contradicted yourself.
Just because we appear to prefer the slow and steady approach, it doesn't mean you follow it 100% of the time. ;)
Part of the slow and steady approach is to keep possession. If the opportunity presents itself to attack, you take it. If not, keep possession of the ball. Some of the attacking opportunities allow you to move quick and direct to your advantage. However, if you try that all the time, you become predictable and easy to stop.
You just kinda contradicted yourself.
Just because we appear to prefer the slow and steady approach, it doesn't mean you follow it 100% of the time. ;)
Part of the slow and steady approach is to keep possession. If the opportunity presents itself to attack, you take it. If not, keep possession of the ball. Some of the attacking opportunities allow you to move quick and direct to your advantage. However, if you try that all the time, you become predictable and easy to stop.
Yes, I do get it. All teams play a few different ways in a game, depending on the state of play. I understand the "keepings off" style of footy.
We won't be winning too many games if footy unless we can find a way of kicking 100+ points per game. And I want to see more attempts made at upping our scoring ability. I was pleased to see more of this in the Swans game, specifically in terms of having Doc and Simmo as play makers around the ball, initiating and directing our forward thrusts, and generally moving the ball towards the goals rather than sideways or backwards.
Not sure I understand what you mean.
GTC, see my post above.
GTC, see my post above.
So are they finally jelling as a group and following instructions better or is he coaching different? I suspect the former, you are suggesting its the latter. I take you back the GC where 5 minutes of poor footy (reduced effort, structures breaking down) cost us the game. In the Ess and Syd game, 120 mins of switched on footy.
I am confident BB has plan A, B and C for different circumstance within games. Its all about the players knowing when to execute the various ones at the right time, this will come with time.
So are they finally jelling as a group and following instructions better or is he coaching different? I suspect the former, you are suggesting its the latter. I take you back the GC where 5 minutes of poor footy (reduced effort, structures breaking down) cost us the game. In the Ess and Syd game, 120 mins of switched on footy.
I am confident BB has plan A, B and C for different circumstance within games. Its all about the players knowing when to execute the various ones at the right time, this will come with time.
I suspect it's a bit of both. I agree that you need to be focused the whole game, but the question is what exactly are you focusing on ?
For the sake of the argument, compare us to the Crows - do you think their ability to score freely is because of :
a. a specific game style that goes in with that mindset, including but not limited to, faster and more forward ball movement ?
b. a better forward line ?
c. players with faster leg speed ?
d. better mids ?
e. better stoppage structures, or generally better setups around the ground ?
f. different or better "cattle" ?
any or all of the above ?
I made comment in the post game that we are more noticeably hitting up 20m passes. This is a big change to what we were doing through JLT and rnd 1 where we had a kamikaze play on all the time approach.
I think that is where bolton would like us to end up but we proved we weren't ready for the more adventurous style so we've gone back to a more conservative approach.
It's hard to get caught out on fast breaks when you're moving the ball carefully up the field. Any turnover tends to happen deep in the forward line rather than up on the wing.
Anyway... will be interesting to see how it evolves.
I suspect it's a bit of both. I agree that you need to be focused the whole game, but the question is what exactly are you focusing on ?
For the sake of the argument, compare us to the Crows - do you think their ability to score freely is because of :
a. a specific game style that goes in with that mindset, including but not limited to, faster and more forward ball movement ?
b. a better forward line ?
c. players with faster leg speed ?
d. better mids ?
e. better stoppage structures, or generally better setups around the ground ?
f. different or better "cattle" ?
any or all of the above ?
b.
I made comment in the post game that we are more noticeably hitting up 20m passes. This is a big change to what we were doing through JLT and rnd 1 where we had a kamikaze play on all the time approach.
I think that is where bolton would like us to end up but we proved we weren't ready for the more adventurous style so we've gone back to a more conservative approach.
It's hard to get caught out on fast breaks when you're moving the ball carefully up the field. Any turnover tends to happen deep in the forward line rather than up on the wing.
Anyway... will be interesting to see how it evolves.
Good post and I agree, but I wonder if the evolution is also on the coach's side and not just the players' ?
I suspect it's a bit of both. I agree that you need to be focused the whole game, but the question is what exactly are you focusing on ?
For the sake of the argument, compare us to the Crows - do you think their ability to score freely is because of :
a. a specific game style that goes in with that mindset, including but not limited to, faster and more forward ball movement ?
b. a better forward line ?
c. players with faster leg speed ?
d. better mids ?
e. better stoppage structures, or generally better setups around the ground ?
f. different or better "cattle" ?
any or all of the above ?
Definitely 'b' and a decided home ground advantage.
Stick Walker and Betts in our forward line and we'd be a lock for the 8.
Definitely 'b' and a decided home ground advantage.
Stick Walker and Betts in our forward line and we'd be a lock for the 8.
What about Lynch, Cameron and Jenkins?
Definitely 'b' and a decided home ground advantage.
Stick Walker and Betts in our forward line and we'd be a lock for the 8.
Interesting that both you and GTC picked b and only b.
Interesting that both you and GTC picked b and only b.
Last year, their top four goal scorers outscored our entire list. They look like scoring more goals this year, to call them potent is a huge understatement.
What about Lynch, Cameron and Jenkins?
Can't be too greedy ;)
Interesting that both you and GTC picked b and only b.
I think that we're pretty competitive in most aspects of the game. What takes the wind out of our sails are the rebound 50s that put our mids and defence under so much pressure. A couple of elite forwards to improve our forward 50 efficiency and lock the ball in and we'd be on the way :)
I think that we're pretty competitive in most aspects of the game. What takes the wind out of our sails are the rebound 50s that put our mids and defence under so much pressure. A couple of elite forwards to improve our forward 50 efficiency and lock the ball in and we'd be on the way :)
Pressure on the rebound is not strictly or exclusively related to the forwards ability to win the ball inside F50 or the quality of the forwards. I think it's mostly related to work effort to setup early through the midfield and defense, and the ability of the mids and defense to lock the ball inside F50.
Some of that rebound pressure, perhaps much of it in our case, comes from mindlessly bombing the football into F50! Not something you can fix with better forwards, and I recall it being a major issue at one stage in the past when we had Fev and Betts.
Of course if the forwards don't chase there would be an issue, but I don't see how that is exclusively related to a forwards ability to win the ball.
Pressure on the rebound is not strictly or exclusively related to the forwards ability to win the ball inside F50 or the quality of the forwards. I think it's mostly related to work effort to setup early through the midfield and defense, and the ability of the mids and defense to lock the ball inside F50.
Some of that rebound pressure, perhaps much of it in our case, comes from mindlessly bombing the football into F50! Not something you can fix with better forwards, and I recall it being a major issue at one stage in the past when we had Fev and Betts.
Of course if the forwards don't chase there would be an issue, but I don't see how that is exclusively related to a forwards ability to win the ball.
No it's not. Locking the ball inside 50 is just as important, as implied in my post :)
No it's not. Locking the ball inside 50 is just as important, as implied in my post :)
So you think better forwards fix the problem, even if the mids and defense fail to setup correctly, or if they bomb the ball into F50 mindlessly?
I find it hard to imagine a forward, any forward, good enough to cover for a poor structure or crap ball use, they'd be dead on their feet from chasing after a quarter of footy.
I agree with Paul, as he has already highlighted, that a single factor cannot possible address the issues in isolation. In the Adelaide example, it's clear their mature list maintains structure and applies pressure all over the ground. If they didn't Betts and Walker would be wasted, just a the Fev / Betts combination was wasted in the paste.
So you think better forwards fix the problem, even if the mids and defense fail to setup correctly, or if they bomb the ball into F50 mindlessly?
I find it hard to imagine a forward, any forward, good enough to cover for a poor structure or crap ball use, they'd be dead on their feet from chasing after a quarter of footy.
I agree with Paul, as he has already highlighted, that a single factor cannot possible address the issues in isolation. In the Adelaide example, it's clear their mature list maintains structure and applies pressure all over the ground. If they didn't Betts and Walker would be wasted, just a the Fev / Betts combination was wasted in the paste.
I seem to recall that the Fev/Betts combination got us into the finals.
I'm not going to write a freaking thesis on forward structures, ball movement, midfield pressure, defensive set ups, etc but, yes, adding an elite key forward and an elite small forward to our line up would make a huge difference. Our defence is more than competent, our midfield is better than competitive, and our gameplan is reasonably effective. The most glaring deficiency is our forward line. At best, it's a work in progress and we desperately need improved performances from most of our forwards, or new forwards.
I seem to recall that the Fev/Betts combination got us into the finals.
I'm not going to write a freaking thesis on forward structures, ball movement, midfield pressure, defensive set ups, etc but, yes, adding an elite key forward and an elite small forward to our line up would make a huge difference. Our defence is more than competent, our midfield is better than competitive, and our gameplan is reasonably effective. The most glaring deficiency is our forward line. At best, it's a work in progress and we desperately need improved performances from most of our forwards, or new forwards.
Agree that we lack the capacity to capitalise on our F50 entries and generate some real scoreboard pressure. That let's opposition teams off lightly for their mistakes i.e. we don't really punish them, and leaves our guys wondering what the heck they have to do to build up a strong scoreline to put a team away. I'm certain this will be one of our main focus areas next up.
I seem to recall that the Fev/Betts combination got us into the finals.
I reckon the fev/betts combo got us a spoon too.
The post fev forwardline got us deeper/closer to a flag that we did with fev.
Take home point. Its not as simple as that.
FWIW, this is why i had all the 'doom and gloom' about our season/future.
Agree that we lack the capacity to capitalise on our F50 entries and generate some real scoreboard pressure. That let's opposition teams off lightly for their mistakes i.e. we don't really punish them, and leaves our guys wondering what the heck they have to do to build up a strong scoreline to put a team away. I'm certain this will be one of our main focus areas next up.
Our midfield, if bested on a given day, is deplorable.....
When we get carted, it's because the midfield has thrown in the towel...
Nt saying that SPS or Fisher or even Cuningham won't make the grade but we're - right now - lacking in this area big time. Well, at least 1 very good mid short....(maybe that was meant to be Daisy?)
I reckon the fev/betts combo got us a spoon too.
The post fev forwardline got us deeper/closer to a flag that we did with fev.
Take home point. Its not as simple as that.
FWIW, this is why i had all the 'doom and gloom' about our season/future.
Yes, it's definitely not a simple matter of bringing in a couple of elite forwards ... unless everything else is OK and I think we're pretty close to OK with the exception of our forward line. Of course we could do with more grunt in the midfield but so could most teams.
We could very well have the elite forwards on our list now. At least we've got blokes with potential and we're seeing improved performances from others. If the green shoots don't flourish, we'll stagnate ... or bring in new talent.
Our midfield, if bested on a given day, is deplorable.....
When we get carted, it's because the midfield has thrown in the towel...
Nt saying that SPS or Fisher or even Cuningham won't make the grade but we're - right now - lacking in this area big time. Well, at least 1 very good mid short....(maybe that was meant to be Daisy?)
Yes our MF is certainly still a wip so it's doubly important we make our F50 entries count.
Our midfield, if bested on a given day, is deplorable.....
When we get carted, it's because the midfield has thrown in the towel...
Nt saying that SPS or Fisher or even Cuningham won't make the grade but we're - right now - lacking in this area big time. Well, at least 1 very good mid short....(maybe that was meant to be Daisy?)
Just remember we are less than half way through an at least 3 year rebuild..
Just remember we are less than half way through an at least 3 year rebuild..
oh sure, i agree with that and I'm not overly impatient.
That said, I'd do the Gibbs trade in a heart beat - for a 1st round pick and a (reasonably) established good + mid.
Will be interesting if the Crows get close to, but fail, in their quest for a flag this year?
Our focus must be on young mids, with pedigree, with 3-5 years in the system.....far more important than a 'key forward'.
Winning contested footy and clearance counts has no relationship to ball use and defensive running.
Gibbs is underated by our fans. He has sacrificed his game for the good of the team since the year he was drafted, playing many different roles and positions (some to his detriment) because this is where we need him.
He is not a superstar in the Dangerfield, Selwood, Cripps, Judd mould, but he is one of those players that gets the job done weekly, and does much more than the average punter appreciates during a game.
Its the iceberg effect with most of our players. You wont see 95% of the things they do, because they are done without the ball, down field, just off the play, and what this does is allow the youngsters the time and space to learn roles and make an impact.
If you take Gibbs out of our team, it might decrease the ability of Cripps to work inside, and Samo to help get his hands on the ball, and will place even more pressure on Murphy at most of the contests. We are already crying out for mature bodies to help our youngsters, and I just dont see the point of decreasing a weak point (mature bodies who are good at AFL level) just to bolster the ranks of what is currently the majority of our list, and that is young bodies.
Good post Thry.
I see the point very clearly.
It's a reset.
We ditch Gibbs and Thomas, buy two or three emerging mids (with a few runs on the board), heck even a gun with the money that will be freed up!
I still believe Gibbs chooses when to turn up, that's a bad example!
And his lazy round the corner kicking is more and more on display this year. Causes cheap turnovers every time.
I see the point very clearly.
It's a reset.
We ditch Gibbs and Thomas, buy two or three emerging mids (with a few runs on the board), heck even a gun with the money that will be freed up!
I still believe Gibbs chooses when to turn up, that's a bad example!
And his lazy round the corner kicking is more and more on display this year. Causes cheap turnovers every time.
Couldn't agree more Fly!
Gibbs is underated by our fans. He has sacrificed his game for the good of the team since the year he was drafted, playing many different roles and positions (some to his detriment) because this is where we need him.
He is not a superstar in the Dangerfield, Selwood, Cripps, Judd mould, but he is one of those players that gets the job done weekly, and does much more than the average punter appreciates during a game.
Its the iceberg effect with most of our players. You wont see 95% of the things they do, because they are done without the ball, down field, just off the play, and what this does is allow the youngsters the time and space to learn roles and make an impact.
If you take Gibbs out of our team, it might decrease the ability of Cripps to work inside, and Samo to help get his hands on the ball, and will place even more pressure on Murphy at most of the contests. We are already crying out for mature bodies to help our youngsters, and I just dont see the point of decreasing a weak point (mature bodies who are good at AFL level) just to bolster the ranks of what is currently the majority of our list, and that is young bodies.
I suspect that Bolton and company have a very different view of Gibbs than some supporters have. Notice how Bolton mentioned Gibbs first when he spoke about the leaders driving our third quarter against the Swans.
If the Crows win the flag they wont want Gibbs and we might find it hard to move him on for any decent return, as it is the junior mids in the Crouch bros, Atkins are dominating and probably better than Gibbs IMO...I dont think he will bring any great trade deal and will probably remain a Carlton player...
I too suspect the moment for Gibbs to go to the Crows has passed and that he will likely at least play out his contract with us. Who knows after that?
I too suspect the moment for Gibbs to go to the Crows has passed and that he will likely at least play out his contract with us. Who knows after that?
I have our Grand final window open in 2020-2022 and Gibbs will be 30-32.... we need wiley veterans on the list and would not mind one iota if he stays