Carlton Supporters Club

https://www.metabunk.org/threads/the-satam-al-suqami-passport.2788/


Survived fires that brought down a 110 story building.

The claim the buildings were designed to withstand a plane crashing into them is a very weak link in your circumstantial case. The inference is that the design was so foolproof that the building couldn't possibly be taken down by a plane. To that I say: the Titanic. When it was launched, the unequivocal claim was made that it was unsinkable. It was designed that way. One of the biggest threats at the time to shipping was icebergs. By implication, the Titanic was designed to withstand a collision with an iceberg. I'm building up the dramatic tension here before the big reveal ...

Interestingly enough, there's another similarity with the collapse of the WTC buildings. One theory is that there had been a fire in one of the Titanic's coal bunkers which continued to smoulder but the owners decided it should set sail anyway on its maiden voyage. The argument goes that this fire may have weakened the metal in the hull, leaving it vulnerable to an iceberg collision. And here we are a century later talking about fires in the WTC buildings weakening the integrity of the metal supports. Spooky, hey?

Another eerie parallel is how quickly the unsinkable Titanic sank, although you'd have to say that the WTC buildings hardly collapsed quickly (unfortunately for the firefighters who went into them).

Marketing hype tends to add "-proof" to products. For instance, bullet-proof glass isn't a real thing. It resists bullets but it isn't completely impenetrable. I guess "bullet-resistant glass" isn't quite as reassuring.

And just why are we saying that the design of the WTC buildings was capable of resisting plane collisions? They opened in 1974 and I think we'd all agree that engineering has come a long way since then. Even with upgrades made from time to time, we're talking about 30 year old buildings when they were destroyed. As others have noted, planes sure became a lot bigger after they were designed. And just how were they tested? Was there some scale model they used. Or did they use 1960s computers to do a worst-case scenario?

An interesting engineering problem occurred with a building of the same vintage: the John Hancock Building. Professors teaching differential equations celebrate this building as it featured an amazing flaw. It just happens that there's a thing called vortex shedding which means that considerable wind forces are applied to tall buildings that are built just so. These forces are sinusoidal, so they move the building back and forth. In this particular building, those forces led to windows popping out and it became known for plywood filling the holes. They had to introduce a tuned mass damper which was a large weight on a near-frictionless surface in one of the upper floors attached to the building by a system of springs. This created a system governed by a 4th order inhomogeneous differential equation which could be adjusted so that the building remained static while the weight, the tuned mass damper, oscillated within it. What a snafu!

The Green Building at MIT, opened in 1964 had similar problems which was a bit embarrassing given it was designed by MIT graduates. Apart from windows popping out and the like, the high winds the building faced prevented anyone from entering or leaving the building by its foyer and they had to use tunnels to escape. 

Fact is, it's pretty hard to design anything that's totally impervious to every eventuality. And real life has a way of throwing up unanticipated challenges. One great example is the sinking of the Bismark. Again, that was a ship that was virtually unsinkable. Its armour-plating was thick as. Indeed, when the British battleships engaged it, it was hardly damaged while HMS Hood blew up when one of the Bismark's shells happened to hit the magazine holding its ammunition. It sank within 3 minutes despite the British public being told it was unsinkable. Even when struck by torpedos dropped by British planes, there was hardly a scratch on the Bismark. Until one torpedo struck the rudder of the Bismark and failed to explode. If it had exploded, the Bismark could have made it to port. But the steering was jammed and the Bismark was condemned to sailing in circles. That enabled forces to muster and bring it down.

Who the hell would ever have thought that would happen? You'd have more chance of winning Tattslotto. But that's the thing. All the best plans of mice and men are oft ripped asunder. And saying that something never happened before doesn't mean it won't ever happen. There's a first time for everything.

Could it have been part of the debris on impact, it was found in the street.

It's good you're backing away from the suggestion the buildings couldn't be destroyed by plane collisions.

What about the lack of a plane full stop at the pentagon?
Or flight 93?
The guy they called to investigate that plane crash, went home after 20 minutes because there was no wreckage, no bodies, nothing to investigate. Pictures show what he was looking at.

No video proof of what flew into the pentagon has even been shown/released apart from 2 frames (1/15th of a second) that was retrieved from a servo across the road. How the hell does the pentagon have no video surveillance? Perhaps they do and it shows something different to the public story.

Questions questions questions....

Flight 77 Debris
Claim: Conspiracy theorists insist there was no plane wreckage at the Pentagon. "In reality, a Boeing 757 was never found," claims pentagonstrike.co.uk, which asks the question, "What hit the Pentagon on 9/11?"

flight77
AP
FACT: Blast expert Allyn E. Kilsheimer was the first structural engineer to arrive at the Pentagon after the crash and helped coordinate the emergency response. "It was absolutely a plane, and I'll tell you why," says Kilsheimer, CEO of KCE Structural Engineers PC, Washington, D.C. "I saw the marks of the plane wing on the face of the building. I picked up parts of the plane with the airline markings on them. I held in my hand the tail section of the plane, and I found the black box." Kilsheimer's eyewitness account is backed up by photos of plane wreckage inside and outside the building. Kilsheimer adds: "I held parts of uniforms from crew members in my hands, including body parts. Okay?"

From the 2020 Popular Mechanics article:This tactic of conspiracists where people's experiences are obliterated in order to push alternative facts is pretty sad. As Trump would say, don't believe your lyin' eyes.

By the way, what happened to the crew members and passengers on those 2 flights? Were they lined up and shot by the Govt and buried in a ditch somewhere? Or maybe they're in witness protection or imprisoned in Guantanamo Bay?

It COULD have been, but what are the chances?

As i've said all along. In isolation, these things could happen.......it'd be like winning tattslotto.....every week.....for a year.....but they could happen.

But....is it likely?

You tell me what you think is more likely.
It blew out of a 110 story builiding that had fire hot enough to deform steel, into the wind and landed next so someone who thought enough of it to hand it into the police.....and didn't have any marks on it that would suggested it came from there.....and it happened to be the one guy who was flying the plane...and they were able to work that out....somehow.

Or....
It was planted there....or simply handed in by a plant to frame someone.

.............................................I do however believe that a crew of radicalised lunatics funded by OBL learnt to fly planes, hijacked them and flew them into building to murder innocent people "in the name of Allah". Its that simple for me.

Firstly, I'd guess its difficult to quantify probability of such events so comparing them to tattslotto wins doesn't wash with me. I believe it was found in the street as described, just like many other items in many plane crashes. I remember watching an episode of Air Crash Investigations and in one plain crash which had many fatalities, one passenger walked out of the wreckage, collected his luggage on the ground and walked away. Seems unlikely but it happened.
They didn't need to frame him or anyone else, their names were on the passenger manifests were they not?
I just can't believe the theory that US Government Agencies would murder 3000 citizens to justify starting a war (or whatever other reason). I do however believe that a crew of radicalised lunatics funded by OBL learnt to fly planes, hijacked them and flew them into building to murder innocent people "in the name of Allah". Its that simple for me.

Have a look at the photos of the hole in the pentagon. There is a blown up version down at ground zero in new york for you to view in detail if you wish.

With that in mind, have a look at the aerial shots taken before any cleanup was undertaken.

You tell me where the plane is.

Not PARTS of a plane...as there is maybe 5% of a plane....possibly people/uniform too.....but where is 95% of the plane.
Its not outside, so it must be in that hole....look at the hole. Tell me a plane fits in there. a 1:16 model, maybe....maybe....

Just look. If you are happy with what you see, tell me. Fine. If you look with an open mind, no chance in hell would you see a plane there.

All the government has to do is release 1 second of footage showing it....yet they do not. Why not? Why not put all this to bed??

NASA is sick of moon landing stuff so they released hours upon hours of footage of man walking around on the moon. That put to bed a lot of deniers. Those who refuse to look though, still hold true to their beliefs.

Firstly, I'd guess its difficult to quantify probability of such events so comparing them to tattslotto wins doesn't wash with me. I believe it was found in the street as described, just like many other items in many plane crashes. I remember watching an episode of Air Crash Investigations and in one plain crash which had many fatalities, one passenger walked out of the wreckage, collected his luggage on the ground and walked away. Seems unlikely but it happened.
They didn't need to frame him or anyone else, their names were on the passenger manifests were they not?
I just can't believe the theory that US Government Agencies would murder 3000 citizens to justify starting a war (or whatever other reason). I do however believe that a crew of radicalised lunatics funded by OBL learnt to fly planes, hijacked them and flew them into building to murder innocent people "in the name of Allah". Its that simple for me.