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Topic: CV and mad panic behaviour (Read 433722 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #1575 –
Quote from: cookie2 on
Without saying that masks are ineffective I have read in more than one place that they are not exactly at the top of the list of effective counter measures. One description was "like trying to catch mossies in chicken wire" , but I don't claim to actually know. I personally wear one as there is nothing to lose by doing so afaic.
SARS-CoV-2 strains range from 50nm (Nanometres, Billionth of a Metre) to 200nm across, 1/5th to 1/20th the size of a micron. So in effect anywhere from 50 to 1000 of them fit across the width of a human hair. So to a virus the holes in the P2 mask material are like a person walking through the front entrance at Bunnings, but it's more complex than that.................

We emit droplets which are basically sputum, each droplet is many tens of microns(~20um) if not hundreds of microns(~200um) across, think of a droplet about the width of a human hair. We emit dozens and dozens of droplets with every word we speak, each one can contain hundreds, thousands or even millions of virus. (There are 4.2 million cubic microns in a single 200um diameter droplet, each cubic micron can potentially hold a virus.)

Droplets are the most common form of virus transmission.

We also emit aerosols, these have a bit of a flexible definition but they are typically sub-micron (Smaller than one millionth of a Metre) in size, dozens or hundreds of aerosols fit across the width of a human hair. We emit thousands and thousands of aerosols with every word we speak or every breath we exhale.

It's not clear whether aerosols contribute much to virus transmission, undoubtedly they do to some degree.

To catch a virus you have to get the right does of virus in the right location. A droplet landing in your mouth probably doesn't have any effect, but an aerosol landing in your tear duct or lung probably can set off an infection.

The masks will help stop droplets containing virus, but they might not stop virus if it is in aerosol form.

But wait there is more,

Whether a mask catches virus depends on a number of things provided the mask is correctly constructed;
 - If the mask is clean and dry, because virus are sticky they stick to clean dry surfaces if they come into contact.
   (So wear clean dry masks everyday.)
 - If the mask has some static charge, virus will be trapped, this depends on the material used and the construction.
 - If the mask has certain chemical properties the virus will be trapped, which depends on the material used.
The Force Awakens!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #1576 –
@ LP

And of course we have to consider the fact that "masks ain't masks". There must be huge variations in the type and construction of contraptions that are being being worn under the generic term "masks" so really is all this mask talk all that scientific anyway in terms of actual effectiveness?
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #1577 –
Quote from: LP on
@madbluboy She wrote it for that reason, it's cherry picking facts and presenting them out of context that feeds the nutter conspiracy theories, So I have no problem with @Baggers highlighting it!

There was quite a nice Podcast just recently, presented by a science reporter and discussing the despair that the flood of bogus "COVID Facts" on FaceCrook / Instafraud / Twatter  is having on everyday people and friends. I think it was called Click-Sick.

The lies and half-truths that are relational (ie., correlated) are pasted so thick and fast people ignore the truth or just can't find it buried in the manure.

A reporter interviewed a former East German scientist, they were very concerned because to them the whole FaceCrook / Instafraud / Twatter COVID feed seemed very reminiscent of life in East Germany and the bombardment of official party lines and neighbourhood paranoia! Something they thought they had escaped by migrating away, but now they live with locals, some acting like the Stasi Party faithful while others act like insurgents!

A nice part of this Podcast was a discussion about how the 5G conspiracies emerged. It was launched by Russia as a disinformation tactic because the Russian economy is dead broke and can't spend enough to keep up with China and the USA on new technologies. They fear the rapid widespread adoption of 5G outside of their borders would leave their economy beached, so they spread disinformation to discredit the technology. At first on the border of Pakistan and India to leverage the fear and suspicion that exists between each side, little did they know the nutters would then attach 5G to COVID and a whole bunch of other things like 5G Microchip Trackers in your last vaccine shot! It seems the disinformation took off because the release of 5G coincided with COVID which appeared about the same time in late 2019, but by those rules of proof so did Baby Yoda and Ooshies! ;D :o

Have you seen, 'The Social Dilemma?' If not, I suspect you'd like it.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #1578 –
The masks work for one simple reason.

Making people wear them in public does more to stop people going out, than any other measure.  Its uncomfortable, people dont like wearing them, and lets assume for a moment that they work with 50% capability of stopping the virus (its probably greater than that, but its irrelevant to the point I am going to write) you are better off wearing one than not.

Simple stuff.

The day masks became mandatory was the day my workplace (hospital) emptied of non clinical facing staff.  A lot of the essentials all of a sudden became non essential and actually took themselves home to work.  Not surprising, I hate wearing one for most of the day and end up isolating myself in an area where I can get away with working on site like I need to, only putting one on when I venture out into the business to work.  Why didnt they go earlier?  Being hospital staff, and delivering any service be it clinical or not, helps the machine of a hospital work.  The staff dont order their own stuff, admin staff do.  The staff dont audit things, admin staff do.  The staff dont staff themselves, admin staff do.  Systems administrators, people delivering key initiatives to transform the patient care experience all of a sudden up and started working from home.

THAT is plenty of good reason to make them mandatory whether they function well or not.  This isnt childsplay, its an infectious disease.  The front line workers treating covid patients wear an n95, gown, gloves, face shield, and goggles and irrespective of how effective they are, they arent going to go in not wearing one, hoping like hell they aint going to catch covid.

Rita makes some valid points.   Heads probably should roll.  Jenny was a sacrifical lamb, and irrespective of how you paint it, there should have been some more concrete analysis of what was going on, who was doing it, and how it was going to be implemented.  Instead, it was silo'd operations with minimal consultation, and policy on the run.  The Andrews government has made some errors here.  Glossing over them is not a good look, but we need to ensure that its not change for changes sake, and make sure we understand why we are making said changes.

Jacinda Ardern was front and centre of New Zealands strategy for good or bad.  It was not, minister a vs minister b, or premier this or that.  SHE was on the front foot.  THAT is what leadership looks like.  We have had absentee leadership for such a long time, that we have forgotten what it looks like.  John Howard was the last competent prime minister we have had, and the rest have all be a revolving door of undermining nitwits who want the top job long enough to qualify for a juicy pension.  We the people (read idiots) keep voting in these muppets and they have found the best way to get them all on the gravy train is leadership spill.  We havent had a full termer for a very long time, and its about time we started asking for much better candidates because all of them suit the description of NERO.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #1579 –
Quote from: Baggers on
Have you seen, 'The Social Dilemma?' If not, I suspect you'd like it.

It's on Netflix, I might give it a whirl Baggers.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #1580 –
People wearing masks are a constant reminder to social distance and follow new protocols.

Without them its easy to forget about COVID....even if it just for a second and shake someones had, give them a kiss on the cheek etc.

I remember when the whole social distance thing came out and they had a big political seminar on the matter and at the end of it, the bloke giving it went to shake someones hand. *Doh*

See someone in a mask, and remember to stay away from them
 

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #1581 –
Quote from: kruddler on
People wearing masks are a constant reminder to social distance and follow new protocols.

Without them its easy to forget about COVID....even if it just for a second and shake someones had, give them a kiss on the cheek etc.

I remember when the whole social distance thing came out and they had a big political seminar on the matter and at the end of it, the bloke giving it went to shake someones hand. *Doh*

See someone in a mask, and remember to stay away from them

Fair enough,  so why couldn't they have some discrete breathing holes to make them more acceptable when mainly used for that purpose. Obviously the "real" masks would still be needed in medical situations etc.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #1582 –
Quote from: cookie2 on
Fair enough,  so why couldn't they have some discrete breathing holes to make them more acceptable when mainly used for that purpose. Obviously the "real" masks would still be needed in medical situations etc.
Better masks are more likely to help....but how much help are they who knows.

The better masks might be twice as effective.
But if they are 1% and 2% effective, it doesn't matter a whole lot. (example only)

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #1583 –
Quote from: cookie2 on
It's on Netflix, I might give it a whirl Baggers.

I think you'll find it pretty good, Fluffy One. Helped me to really grasp this social media/Facebook/Instawhatever stuff and it's ramifications. The doco also looks, briefly, at the good that it can do/has done. The interviewees are sensational, no agenda, just the facts and really, really qualified to speak on the subject. Love to hear what you think. Cheers.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #1584 –
Dear oh dear.  Apparently we are only just removing security guards from one of the quarantine hotels now on the back of infection control risks.

Who on earth is managing this crap show?  Why have we gotten to the end of a second wave before we are even taking action on this problem?  How is it, that the vic state governments quarantine procedures have been under scrutiny since July, yet here we are in October repeating the definition of madness?

How is it that Scott Morrison has not mandated something be put in place about it?

This is beyond the joke now.  Its like watching a live studio version of Utopia being played out in front of us.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #1585 –
Quote from: Thryleon on
Dear oh dear.  Apparently we are only just removing security guards from one of the quarantine hotels now on the back of infection control risks.

Who on earth is managing this crap show?  Why have we gotten to the end of a second wave before we are even taking action on this problem?  How is it, that the vic state governments quarantine procedures have been under scrutiny since July, yet here we are in October repeating the definition of madness?

How is it that Scott Morrison has not mandated something be put in place about it?

This is beyond the joke now.  Its like watching a live studio version of Utopia being played out in front of us.
ScoMo is playing politics and leaving Labor Dan to dig a big hole and fall in it...

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #1586 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 on
ScoMo is playing politics and leaving Labor Dan to dig a big hole and fall in it...

Dan wont get out of this pandemic alive.  Was never going to happen.  Id rather we not sacrifice one lamb and have a good hard look at the system and its short comings, and its time to turn the blowtorch on a federal government.

If they can get away with hiding behind state politics, we either need to get rid of state politics, or get rid of the national politics.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #1587 –
Quote from: Thryleon on
Dear oh dear.  Apparently we are only just removing security guards from one of the quarantine hotels now on the back of infection control risks.
I doubt the problems persisted.

The naughty child doesn't keep stealing the lollies after they are are caught and put under observation, the best time to use those services was probably the minute after they were publicly exposed!

( Fwiw, it reminds me of getting corporate security travel advice to areas like Columbo and Jakarta, they always use to tell you the best time to travel to those locations was straight after a bombing. Not because travel was easy or convenient, but because official observation and alert levels were raised. )

Who was running it, maybe there is more to the former Health Minister's demise than we realise?
The Force Awakens!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #1588 –
Quote from: Thryleon on
Dear oh dear.  Apparently we are only just removing security guards from one of the quarantine hotels now on the back of infection control risks.

Who on earth is managing this crap show?  Why have we gotten to the end of a second wave before we are even taking action on this problem?  How is it, that the vic state governments quarantine procedures have been under scrutiny since July, yet here we are in October repeating the definition of madness?

How is it that Scott Morrison has not mandated something be put in place about it?

This is beyond the joke now.  Its like watching a live studio version of Utopia being played out in front of us.

Dictator Dan is more focused on changing the laws to give his government more power than protecting us all from the virus.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #1589 –
Quote from: madbluboy on
Dictator Dan is more focused on changing the laws to give his government more power than protecting us all from the virus.

Protecting his government from us too.
Reality always wins in the end.