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When Actors claim Defamation!

Not a football topic, but yet topical in recent times.

I've had this concern for sometime, but when professional actors claim defamation, and the witnesses and defendants are also professional actors. In an industry that rewards publicity be it good or bad, who do you believe?

In the Rush case, it looks to me like it is potentially a win / win on all sides except the media, that is a worry. The accuser wins because they have a massively increased profile, Rush wins because he probably gets a settlement to cap a career as it nears an end. The similarities are strong between the Rush case and the Wilson case.

Movements like #MeToo are a worry, too many people benefit from the notoriety that comes from being part of it. being raped, molested as a child and abused has become the norm for Hollywood types, there is hardly a one who claims to be free of such events?

Also, cases that are inherently subjective like the determination of subjectively offensive comments racial vilification under various statutes, etc., etc...

Can courts really decide on such subjective issues when the witness list comprises professional actors or vexatious litigants? Should the courts even try?

I think the recent David Penberthy article about Mumford in context of the media hypocrisy regarding drug use really highlights this issue. Also that erroneous broadcast by Hunchy and Barrett. For a long time the media as vehemently adhered to the strict regimen of never hunting their own, but David Penberthy violated that rules and even although I suspect he now finds himself as a pariah it's probably for the good!
The Force Awakens!

Re: When Actors claim Defamation!

Reply #1
I agree, but the pile on after the fact always makes me wary of intent and honesty of the accuser.  For the number of cases proven (I don't see the need to name the guilty here) many are fraudulent

Pitiful where you can no longer stand behind who you are as a decent person.  NEVER an easy answer

Re: When Actors claim Defamation!

Reply #2
The victims should receive the benefit of the doubt, pure and simple. No one who still has their brain entire would put themselves through the wringer, go through a trial with a bunch of lawyers attacking you etc., for kicks or to raise their profile.

Gray areas will always exist, but not to the extent that the ruling patriarchy would have you believe.

A lot of the pain and suffering and wrongdoings on this planet go unnoticed and undocumented.

Re: When Actors claim Defamation!

Reply #3
I'll tell you what makes me even more uncomfortable.

When you see some of the people involved in the case leaving court smiling and posing for the phalanx of photographers, like it's the red carpet at an awards ceremony!

I've heard stories of Judges tearing jury members a new one for grinning or giggling at an inappropriate moment, and some of these people look like they are on a catwalk as they leave court!
The Force Awakens!

Re: When Actors claim Defamation!

Reply #4
There is so much in the posts above that I want to address.

Firstly LP, I don't think any accusers have professionally benefited from coming forward with their stories of abuse. Sure, some have received publicity, but I can't think of a single one who has found an increase in work because of it. In fact in nearly every case, the work for the accuser has dried up.

As for the prevalence of victims, it's probably in line with society as a whole and is not isolated to Hollywood. Statistically speaking (using Australia as an example), according to the ABS approximately 28% of women and 18% of men reported some form of sexual abuse prior to the age of 16, and 17% of women 15 or older and 4% of men also experienced a sexual assault. Those are huge numbers. I remember talking about it with a group of friends in my early 20's and of the 5 women chatting, 3 disclosed that they had been abused as kids, and that's not uncommon.

Capcom, to state that 'many' accusations of sexual assault are fraudulent is pretty appalling. What benefit is there for any person to create a fake abuse accusation?  It is true that only 17% of reported cased end in a conviction, but that that is due mostly to our poor judicial system and certainly not because of false accusations. I think it's actually a very sad indictment on the values of our society.

The fact of the matter is, most cases of abuse won't even make it to court, or even be reported for that matter, mostly because of the attitudes above. Until we stop victim blaming and shaming, and actually hold perpetrators accountable for their actions (in an actual courtroom, not just a media courtroom), no one is safe.

Re: When Actors claim Defamation!

Reply #5
There is so much in the posts above that I want to address.

Firstly LP, I don't think any accusers have professionally benefited from coming forward with their stories of abuse. Sure, some have received publicity, but I can't think of a single one who has found an increase in work because of it. In fact in nearly every case, the work for the accuser has dried up.

As for the prevalence of victims, it's probably in line with society as a whole and is not isolated to Hollywood. Statistically speaking (using Australia as an example), according to the ABS approximately 28% of women and 18% of men reported some form of sexual abuse prior to the age of 16, and 17% of women 15 or older and 4% of men also experienced a sexual assault. Those are huge numbers. I remember talking about it with a group of friends in my early 20's and of the 5 women chatting, 3 disclosed that they had been abused as kids, and that's not uncommon.

Capcom, to state that 'many' accusations of sexual assault are fraudulent is pretty appalling. What benefit is there for any person to create a fake abuse accusation?  It is true that only 17% of reported cased end in a conviction, but that that is due mostly to our poor judicial system and certainly not because of false accusations. I think it's actually a very sad indictment on the values of our society.

The fact of the matter is, most cases of abuse won't even make it to court, or even be reported for that matter, mostly because of the attitudes above. Until we stop victim blaming and shaming, and actually hold perpetrators accountable for their actions (in an actual courtroom, not just a media courtroom), no one is safe.

btw., From my investigations many of the stats categorise students as children, and the qualification varies widely from region to region so much so that meta-data studies are rendered almost worthless. In some regions under 21 qualifies, while in other regions over 16 will exclude! The media won't report that difference, just as they won't report the scope of sexual assault which also varies widely from region to region! Many of the alleged offenses statistically reported in childhood sexual assault stats fall into adolescent categories which in detailed investigation then seem to be more sexual misadventure!

One problematic area seems to be Universities, where the definition of sexual assault for grounds to discharge can vary from rape to a lack of recognition for a non-verbal queue, or even in some cases two drunks having sex neither deemed capable of consent at the time yet charges laid retrospectively!

I think the problem is here the breadth of the definition of "sexual assault", some read it purely as rape, while others can label a disgruntled relationship or unsatisfying intercourse as an assault.

I've read reports of young men being discharged from employment or education for allegations of sexual assault because after receiving consent they failed to stop intercourse quickly enough when they didn't notice a tear in their partners eye in a dark room! The inference being that the lack of empathy in the absence of all other communication is enough to be found guilty of abusive neglect.

In one case it was even argued that after asking a participant if the intention was to dissatisfy their partner and they had replied no, that answer was enough proof of a lack of empathy and therefore neglect which led to a charge of sexual abuse! What really disturbed me was the claim by some that this wasn't an error, and that even if it was perceived to be an error it was an error in the right direction. Stats do not lie!

It all seems to stem from the perception that all interactions are expected to be heavenly, hardly and I am sure that whether someone sleeps with one or one thousand the chance is high enough that people will probably end up dissatisfied more than satiated.
The Force Awakens!

Re: When Actors claim Defamation!

Reply #6
I think the problem is here the breadth of the definition of "sexual assault", some read it purely as rape, while others can label a disgruntled relationship or unsatisfying intercourse as an assault.

Well with the statistics I was referring to, most related to children, so I don't think there's any grey area there.

And I don't think anyone is putting their career on the line for unsatisfying sex. As I said, these accusers aren't actually benefiting from any of this. Can you name one person who has landed more acting gigs following them making a complaint?

Re: When Actors claim Defamation!

Reply #7
In seriousness NM.

Please do not take my post as dismissive, but I'm not going to accept everyone as a rape victim as the media likes to paint out!

When a young male student is dismissed from University because he made a statement "That dress looks nice!" Not "You look nice in that dress" and not "That dress looks nice on you", but simply "That dress looks nice!"

A statement which was verified by his own testimony, independent witness testimony and the testimony of his accuser. (FWIW, it could'nt be denied because it was caught on video during a formal function!)

Yet the lad is still discharged by the university under a sexual assault allegation, an allegation that the police dismissed after mandatory reporting, then the stats collected by such organizations become mostly worthless if that is the threshold!

It wouldn't even be unreasonable to assert the stats are radicalized!
The Force Awakens!

Re: When Actors claim Defamation!

Reply #8
Navy Maven ... appalling?  Really?  I condemn NO-ONE but neither do I take one side at the exclusion of all others before the evidence has been gathered.  It's called balance ...

Re: When Actors claim Defamation!

Reply #9
Can you name one person who has landed more acting gigs following them making a complaint?

How would you prove otherwise, you would need to time travel between parallel universes where both events happened!
The Force Awakens!

Re: When Actors claim Defamation!

Reply #10
How would you prove otherwise, you would need to time travel between parallel universes where both events happened!

It would be easy to show an actor's profile / workload etc. before and after such an event. And a process of very simple deduction would lead to a plausible reason as to why such an increase occurred.

Still waiting...........

Re: When Actors claim Defamation!

Reply #11
Wow - certainly no fake news to be found on a footy forum. And here I was thinking women have been the victims of some incredibly shabby treatment for thousands of years. But no, apparently not. It is we, as men, who are the real victims, as a result of scheming evil women trying to gain advantage from trumped up claims.

Re: When Actors claim Defamation!

Reply #12
It would be easy to show an actor's profile / workload etc. before and after such an event. And a process of very simple deduction would lead to a plausible reason as to why such an increase occurred.

Still waiting...........

Still waiting for what PaulP?

Plotting a career trajectory in the arts would be a coin toss, almost the definition of a Monte Carlo simulation, they can go from zero to hero almost by chance!

Wow - certainly no fake news to be found on a footy forum. And here I was thinking women have been the victims of some incredibly shabby treatment for thousands of years. But no, apparently not. It is we, as men, who are the real victims, as a result of scheming evil women trying to gain advantage from trumped up claims.

Not at all, and there is no post asserting that except your own, which seems to be you reporting your own fake news in the best Trump manner!

Back on subject.

FWIW, a friend on mine pointed me to a great Podcast covering this issue called Radiolab. Not the first time I've listened to them, but they have a willingness to lay such issues bare. In light of the recent #MeToo phenomenon there is recent series titled "In the No Part 1, 2 and 3" discussing this very issue. It's applicable to me and by the sound of it ProfE due to our roles in organistaions that have to deal with these sorts of issues. Well worth a listen as they protagonists will surprise you if for nothing else their willingness to extremism!

https://www.npr.org/podcasts/452538884/radiolab
The Force Awakens!

Re: When Actors claim Defamation!

Reply #13
Still waiting for what PaulP?

Plotting a career trajectory in the arts would be a coin toss, almost the definition of a Monte Carlo simulation, they can go from zero to hero almost by chance!
................

It has nothing to do with parallel universes or any other obfuscatory mumbo jumbo in which you like to indulge when the mood takes you. Reality TV is full of people who have a rise in their social media profile as a result of mass media (TV, newspapers etc.) exposing them to a greeter audience - this leads to appearances on other shows, a rise in interest in their core business etc. So name one actor who has received similar exposure as a result of sexual assault allegations, who has had a similar rise in popularity, workload etc.

Re: When Actors claim Defamation!

Reply #14
It has nothing to do with parallel universes or any other obfuscatory mumbo jumbo in which you like to indulge when the mood takes you. Reality TV is full of people who have a rise in their social media profile as a result of mass media (TV, newspapers etc.) exposing them to a greeter audience - this leads to appearances on other shows, a rise in interest in their core business etc. So name one actor who has received similar exposure as a result of sexual assault allegations, who has had a similar rise in popularity, workload etc.

It's immeasurable PaulP, unprovable in either the positive or a negative, in too many cases both the accusations and the effects of those accusations are subjective.

Using some other unknown persons rise in social media from obscurity due to reality TV as an example is not a relevant measure at all, that is as valid or as irrelevant as the millions of clicks providing proof for some fraudulent article like an acrobatic jetliner!

In your demand for proof you demand knowledge of something before the fact, that in itself is a form of obfuscation!
The Force Awakens!