Next Saturday night on the Gold Coast we play the Suns, the worst two teams in the competition. Unfortunately, we appear to be worse than the Suns, who had their best ever win yesterday against Sydney. :(
I can't see us win, but who knows? If we had some players available, we might make it close. But with 2 more definitely out, I don't like our chances.
Next Saturday night on the Gold Coast we play the Suns, the worst two teams in the competition. Unfortunately, we appear to be worse than the Suns, who had their best ever win yesterday against Sydney. :(
I can't see us win, but who knows? If we had some players available, we might make it close. But with 2 more definitely out, I don't like our chances.
Fisher will be a big loss.
We will lose ... nothing more certain IMO
We will lose ... nothing more certain IMO
Just a question of by how many?
Yep it may get nasty , Gold Coast at home won't be east at all.
Just a question of by how many?
By 4 at minimum
8-10, with no names tearing us a new one and we won't kick 60 points.
Their tall backs to dominate our limp forwards, Casboult (if he plays) to be pathetic on May.
Boltons zone defence to once again be utterly useless... Please go one on one Bolts, go basic.
Gold Coast aren't exactly great, and it's effectively a dead rubber. Add gc having a win filling them with confidence plus no lynch...
I reckon we'll win next week. We simply have to.
I reckon we'll knock off the Bulldogs in round 22 too.
I'd like to try SPS in a set role, as a small defender in the McLeod role. He looks lost to me. He could use his disposal and ball finding in the role, he's a good tackler but I doubt his tank will ever permit him to be a full time mid. Quality ball use from defence would really help us.
I'd like to try SPS in a set role, as a small defender in the McLeod role. He looks lost to me. He could use his disposal and ball finding in the role, he's a good tackler but I doubt his tank will ever permit him to be a full time mid. Quality ball use from defence would really help us.
Agreed.
He should be playing Simpson's role and Kade pushed up the ground.
Agreed.
He should be playing Simpson's role and Kade pushed up the ground.
Not having a go at you MBB, are we looking to the future or to the now ?
If we are looking to the future it’s a sound move, but at the same time everyone wants to ditch the zone defense and try to limit the damage... and the coach is a spud because he’s not doing that.
The players are all spuds because we’re not winning...
The recruiter is obviously no good because we’re not winning, and his previous job, they haven’t won a flag...
The president has to go...
Well with one win on the board I would assume we're looking to the future.
I agree.
So what to do about everything else ?
Hold the line imho.
Looking at the few positives from the Hawthorn game, Kennedy looked to be the player we wanted, playing tough uncompromising football with some skill and Poulson looked significantly better and got involved in the play more, played his heart out. Harry took 8 marks around the ground, just needed to kick at least two goals but still less than 10 games.
Lobbe has to go, Casboult stays as a decoy unfortunately and with Fisher/Jones gone, I would like to see a touch more run off half back, Lang and Lamb in for Fisher & Jones with Kruezer replacing Lobbe, I hope they leave Weitering as the main backman with Marchbank and surround them with runners take the game on, run hard and in waves. If we lose so what at least go out trying to win rather than stopping them. Play the extra back and surge forward.
Play Byrne and Schumacher, bugger Casboult and Lobbe off. Rather play Kerr and Kreuzer, if fit.
Looking at the few positives from the Hawthorn game, Kennedy looked to be the player we wanted, playing tough uncompromising football with some skill and Poulson looked significantly better and got involved in the play more, played his heart out. Harry took 8 marks around the ground, just needed to kick at least two goals but still less than 10 games.
Lobbe has to go, Casboult stays as a decoy unfortunately and with Fisher/Jones gone, I would like to see a touch more run off half back, Lang and Lamb in for Fisher & Jones with Kruezer replacing Lobbe, I hope they leave Weitering as the main backman with Marchbank and surround them with runners take the game on, run hard and in waves. If we lose so what at least go out trying to win rather than stopping them. Play the extra back and surge forward.
How could you justify to any other player that Casboult stays in other than we simply have no one else fit?
You cannot drop Lobbe and keep Casboult.
Casboult did not try.
He ran around at quarter pace and made no effort at all.
Lobbe's numbers were pretty good for 1st game back in the big time for a long time, I had expected worse!
Statistically and metaphorically speaking, Casboult had less impact than Jones and Fisher! ;D
Play Byrne and Schumacher, bugger Casboult and Lobbe off. Rather play Kerr and Kreuzer, if fit.
I agree, but Kerr didn't play in the VFL so Casboult probably flukes another game.
He was woeful yesterday.
Schumacher in and TDK in for Levi. Nothing to lose now, give them senior experience. Schumacher was absolutely outstanding yesterday.
EDIT: TDK only just come back so there's no promoting him unfortunately.
Happy to just have Kreuzer and Harry rucking. Levi needs to go find form. We don't need 3 talls forward.
Play Byrne and Schumacher, bugger Casboult and Lobbe off. Rather play Kerr and Kreuzer, if fit.
so now we don’t need or want any senior support/guidance for the kids ?
So come November we’re just looking at more 18 yo’s ?
My post wasn't clear, sorry about that, but Kreuzer is clearly a keeper for what is left of his career. However, at this time of year, I would rather play a kid with upside rather than some list clogger who has already peaked. The mature agers have to be good enough players in their own right to deserve a game before any talk of mentoring.
Here's eight blokes brought in or retained to assist the kids but are now list clog:
Casboult. Not the future, not good enough.
Graham
Shaw
Mullet
OShea. Good NBs support.
Wright. Game has gone past him.
A. Silvagni. Permanently injured.
Lobbe. Apparently a good ruck mentor.
We need to do better, and get a lot more, from our mature bodies.
@ Prof
Interesting observation about Lobbe Prof. I suggested he would be a useful mentor when we signed him and was comprehensively howled down on here!
My sources in Adelaide regaled him as being a damn good team-orientated bloke. Regarded as a core player at the NBs but injuries seem to have knocked down his mobility and thus his utility at senior level. He is still doing what he should be doing - mentoring kid and rucks and offering back up to the senior side as appropriate - but expecting him to play 20 senior games a season is unrealistic.
My sources in Adelaide regaled him as being a damn good team-orientated bloke. Regarded as a core player at the NBs but injuries seem to have knocked down his mobility and thus his utility at senior level. He is still doing what he should be doing - mentoring kid and rucks and offering back up to the senior side as appropriate - but expecting him to play 20 senior games a season is unrealistic.
I don't get the Lobbe hate from the weekend, I thought he was OK for his first ever game in Navy Blue!
Rucks are only ever good when they are part of a rehearsed team that knows exactly who, where and when things have to happen. It's easy to bag the first gamer if he doesn't follow up with a 2nd effort, but he'd just be guessing and could easily clean up a team mate if he didn't know where they typically run, who's voice is who, etc., etc.. It's hard enough to get this right at training, without the noise of a 30000 crowd. As a first gamer he gets to pass mark despite hesitation and some shallow efforts, the guys who have been around the club for a decade don't!
A great example is SpecialK 2nd or even 3rd efforts, they are wasted if the other Mids do not know where and when to be to receive when SpecialK gets on a role, or if they get in his way!
@ Prof
Interesting observation about Lobbe Prof. I suggested he would be a useful mentor when we signed him and was comprehensively howled down on here!
Cookie..Did a lot of instructional work vs Hawthorn did Lobbe so you were on the money, also provides a bit of physical presence as a he is big lump of a bloke....in fact I dont mind him as the No 1 ruck with maybe Kreuzer spending some time forward...bit over Levi..
Cookie..Did a lot of instructional work vs Hawthorn did Lobbe so you were on the money, also provides a bit of physical presence as a he is big lump of a bloke....in fact I dont mind him as the No 1 ruck with maybe Kreuzer spending some time forward...bit over Levi..
Thanks EB (and Prof). He doesn't cost us much so he is earning his keep atm.
Cookie..Did a lot of instructional work vs Hawthorn did Lobbe so you were on the money, also provides a bit of physical presence as a he is big lump of a bloke....in fact I dont mind him as the No 1 ruck with maybe Kreuzer spending some time forward...bit over Levi..
Kreuzer has never done any good at all in that situation though. Kreuzer and McKay will do me. McKay won't be winning many taps, don't care anyway as we won't be winning any games, but running around the ground is doing so much for his game. Might not have hit the scoreboard in his last 2 games but they have been his best games. That's more important than running around with 2 rucks, which has never suited Kreuzer.
I think we need to work out if Kreuzer is going on next year.
If he is, moth ball him. Get some games in to Lobbe. He was ok on the weekend, and I would rather him than a half fit Kreuzer, who may leave us one down again.
I think we need to work out if Kreuzer is going on next year.
If he is, moth ball him. Get some games in to Lobbe. He was ok on the weekend, and I would rather him than a half fit Kreuzer, who may leave us one down again.
Makes a heap of sense to me.
I think we need to work out if Kreuzer is going on next year.
If he is, moth ball him. Get some games in to Lobbe. He was ok on the weekend, and I would rather him than a half fit Kreuzer, who may leave us one down again.
I'd imagine he is. Not a bad idea though.
My sources in Adelaide regaled him as being a damn good team-orientated bloke. Regarded as a core player at the NBs but injuries seem to have knocked down his mobility and thus his utility at senior level. He is still doing what he should be doing - mentoring kid and rucks and offering back up to the senior side as appropriate - but expecting him to play 20 senior games a season is unrealistic.
He was also on a big long term contract when Port were handing out money like lollies see Hamish Hartlett...Port wanted him out for salary cap relief so they could get Rockliff, Motlop and Watts......
I think we need to work out if Kreuzer is going on next year.
If he is, moth ball him. Get some games in to Lobbe. He was ok on the weekend, and I would rather him than a half fit Kreuzer, who may leave us one down again.
Saw Big Kreuz at Carlton’s kids clinic not long ago and my observation was the the big fella was simply “tired”. He did and said all the right things but it just seemed that everything he did was laboured and came with a lot of effort. I fear his body might not be holding up as well as it used to. Maybe we need to look at a 16 game schedule for him next year where he can do his absolute best and also have time to recover.
It wouldn't surprise me one bit if he pulls the pin at end of season.
He looks spent physically.
Thats why I think give him a rest now, that way if he does go around again, we are not risking another injury and he gets time to recover from whatever is going on for him physically now.
Has given absolutely everything for the club, heart and soul player.
Yep. He is one of those guys who you know won't leave anything out on the ground.
Saw Big Kreuz at Carlton’s kids clinic not long ago and my observation was the the big fella was simply “tired”. He did and said all the right things but it just seemed that everything he did was laboured and came with a lot of effort. I fear his body might not be holding up as well as it used to. Maybe we need to look at a 16 game schedule for him next year where he can do his absolute best and also have time to recover.
Injuries aside, he just needs to be managed now that he at the back end of his career. We have other ruckman on the list, play one on the odd occasion to give Kreuzer as rest for a week.
Actually thought that Lobbe wasn't too bad last week against Hawthorn. Casboult did nothing. I'd be going with two ruckmen (Kruezer & Lobbe) and leave McKay at FF.....he doesn't look to have the strength or tank to play as an on-baller at this stage. Kruezer, Thomas & Byrne in for Casboult, Fisher and Shaw. And maybe Rowe in to replace Jones with someone else to go out. Shaw has shown absolutely nothing in his two games and doesn't look up to AFL standard for mine.
Actually thought that Lobbe wasn't too bad last week against Hawthorn. Casboult did nothing. I'd be going with two ruckmen (Kruezer & Lobbe) and leave McKay at FF.....he doesn't look to have the strength or tank to play as an on-baller at this stage. Kruezer, Thomas & Byrne in for Casboult, Fisher and Shaw. And maybe Rowe in to replace Jones with someone else to go out. Shaw has shown absolutely nothing in his two games and doesn't look up to AFL standard for mine.
Actually, Mckay has been doing well on ball the last two weeks. Mightn't do so well rucking but running around chasing kicks and marks, without a number of defenders around him is doing alot for his confidence and development. Happy to go with that rather than leaving him to rot in our forward line. Who'd want to stay there for a whole game....lol. Two rucks has always been a shocker for us. Kreuzer plays much better when he's on the ball most of the day. Mckay can play Levi's old role as the forward ruck. That way we can use another smaller type instead of an extra lumbering type. I'd just let Weitering and Marchbank play the key defensive roles. Let them have the responsibility now. Can only help them plus the defence will be better balanced.
Actually, Mckay has been doing well on ball the last two weeks. Mightn't do so well rucking but running around chasing kicks and marks, without a number of defenders around him is doing alot for his confidence and development. Happy to go with that rather than leaving him to rot in our forward line. Who'd want to stay there for a whole game....lol. Two rucks has always been a shocker for us. Kreuzer plays much better when he's on the ball most of the day. Mckay can play Levi's old role as the forward ruck. That way we can use another smaller type instead of an extra lumbering type. I'd just let Weitering and Marchbank play the key defensive roles. Let them have the responsibility now. Can only help them plus the defence will be better balanced.
Yep. x2
Actually, Mckay has been doing well on ball the last two weeks. Mightn't do so well rucking but running around chasing kicks and marks, without a number of defenders around him is doing alot for his confidence and development. Happy to go with that rather than leaving him to rot in our forward line. Who'd want to stay there for a whole game....lol. Two rucks has always been a shocker for us. Kreuzer plays much better when he's on the ball most of the day. Mckay can play Levi's old role as the forward ruck. That way we can use another smaller type instead of an extra lumbering type. I'd just let Weitering and Marchbank play the key defensive roles. Let them have the responsibility now. Can only help them plus the defence will be better balanced.
That's the way I would go Jim.
In Byrne Thomas Lang Lamb Rowe
Out Casboult Jones Shaw Graham Fisher
No surprises there, still no Matty K.
We will miss Fish but some handy ins.
No surprises there, still no Matty K.
We will miss Fish but some handy ins.
Team looks a bit better IMHO...pity GC have some decent ins as well... I remember Bowes collecting Weitering I think it was in the game played early in the year...I'd like us to return the favour...
Casboult out was a must....he had been worse than poor since coming back from injury.
Has he been told his days are numbered?
I believe so. I thought he was contracted for 2019 though?
I believe so. I thought he was contracted for 2019 though?
Maybe destined to become a steak knife?
indeed. yes end 2019.
Maybe destined to become a steak knife?
I'd offer him to GC if Lynch goes for the likes of Brodie, Hall etc.....
Maybe destined to become a steak knife?
As much as I have a bit of a soft spot for Levi, there is a part of me that really wants to see the back of him. And when it happens, I hope the effect is similar to when Richmond let go of Vickery.
As much as I have a bit of a soft spot for Levi, there is a part of me that really wants to see the back of him. And when it happens, I hope the effect is similar to when Richmond let go of Vickery.
Fair enough too...I had a bit of faith in Levi to improve and be that 2nd ruck/forward option but he has stagnated and for him and the club its probably better we part company and the club invests the time in Mckay, TDK, and Kerr.
As much as I have a bit of a soft spot for Levi, there is a part of me that really wants to see the back of him. And when it happens, I hope the effect is similar to when Richmond let go of Vickery.
Levi and Vickery are incomparable IMO. Levi despite his limitations is a hard worker and solid citizen. Vickery is a knob.
Hey, careful mate, calling Vickery a knob is unfair to knobs. He's way further along the flog highway than knob level.
Levi and Vickery are incomparable IMO. Levi despite his limitations is a hard worker and solid citizen. Vickery is a knob.
Levi's a nice guy and works hard, and I reckon does everything asked of him. But I'm sure he's also a coach killer, and frankly, a fan killer as well at times.
It would be easier to type this if he was a douche bag, but he's decent. So no enjoyment from me on this one.
CARLTON
B: Jack Silvagni, Jacob Weitering, Dale Thomas
HB: Ciaran Byrne, Caleb Marchbank, Kade Simpson
C: Marc Murphy, Patrick Cripps, Lochie O'Brien
HF: Jarrod Pickett, Charlie Curnow, Sam Petrevski-Seton
F: Darcy Lang, Harry McKay, Cameron Polson
R: Matthew Lobbe, Ed Curnow, Paddy Dow
Int: Sam Rowe, Matthew Kennedy, Jed Lamb, Matthew Wright
Emg: Cameron O'Shea, Levi Casboult, Jarrod Garlett, Nick Graham
IN: Dale Thomas, Ciaran Byrne, Darcy Lang, Sam Rowe, Jed Lamb
OUT: Zac Fisher (Injured), Levi Casboult (Omitted), Matt Shaw (Omitted), Nick Graham (Omitted), Liam Jones (Injured)
I wonder what Nick Graham did wrong last week? Otherwise ...
This team is really looking like the Northern Blues at the moment.
GOLD COAST SUNS
B: Michael Rischitelli, Rory Thompson, Jarrod Harbrow
HB: Jesse Joyce, Steven May, Kade Kolodjashnij
C: Lachie Weller, Jesse Lonergan, Brayden Fiorini
HF: Alex Sexton, Peter Wright, Wil Powell
F: Jacob Heron, Aaron Young, Sean Lemmens
R: Jarrod Witts, Will Brodie, Touk Miller
Int: David Swallow, Nick Holman, Jack Bowes, Jarryd Lyons
Emg: Brad Scheer, Jack Leslie, Jacob Dawson, Michael Barlow
IN: Brayden Fiorini, David Swallow, Jack Bowes
OUT: Charlie Ballard (Injured), Callum Ah Chee (Illness), Brayden Crossley (Injured)
Wish the game was on the box, but it isn't. I won't see another one. :(
Had that bad car crash did Levi where he was lucky to walk away and probably more famous for the booze cruise than any football related playing feats....
Graham and Shaw a bit stiff IMHO.
Happy with the ins although I think Schumacher might have been worth a game on his last game.
Much better balanced side this week. Need to see a lot more movement, run and spread. Certainly picked the blokes for it.
They showed some footage on fox footy last night of our defenders. It was footage of Bruest and the players playing on him. The footage showed players rolling on and off him (handover) in the d50, eventually, they farked it up, he got left alone, he got the ball and kicked a goal. To me it showed a lack of attention to detail, poor communication and not adhering to structures. Hopefully they learn from this and with maturity this stuff is eliminated.
Suns very small and nippy up forward, there ins are all good quality mids..they are really looking to burn us for pace, our backline looks slow and Rowe aint going to help that apart from maybe taking 2m Peter.....Weitering might be handy with his intercept marking but you would think the Suns will run the footy rather than just bang it in.....
That FB line of ours wont be winning any Olympic relay events...thats very slow.....
Be a good test for Harry and Charlie..one of them is going to have May for company, last time Thompson and May waxed getting some easy ball as we just bombed it in...need Charlie dragging the likes of May up the ground and burning him for pace....
Will Brodie is an interesting player from our viewpoint IMO.....
Levi and Vickery are incomparable IMO. Levi despite his limitations is a hard worker and solid citizen. Vickery is a knob.
;D ;D
We have a reasonably good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game is played on grass...lol.
I saw the piece on 360 as well by David King showing the zone defence fall apart against the Hawks as they chipped the ball sideways and around to maintain possession. Our players switched opponents as they tried to keep the zone intact but the Hawks picked it apart and it fell in a heap leaving Breust with an easy snap for goal.
Please leave the zone plan at the airport Bolts....
I guess both Levi and Vickery promised much and delivered little.
Weird maybe, but I always thought he could be our next Earl Spalding
I guess both Levi and Vickery promised much and delivered little.
While I cannot be described as a Levi booster, he's still a Carlton player so I support him and hope he does well.
I never understood how Vickery got such a free media ride, his numbers are far worse than Levi! Then we all found out he was a business partner with King, and most likely in partnership with many of King's associates!
I often ponder if there is a reason Dusty gets such favourable media coverage, tribunal and umpiring outcomes, it's just a little doubt!
I guess both Levi and Vickery promised much and delivered little.
x2 Sad we hitched our wagon to Levi with the thought he would deliver , though plenty of heart, some of those goals he missed , shudder at the thought now , they hurt there were times when we were pressing and just mentally let down time & time again , must have effected players as well. Maybe not consciously but damage done
Pick 44 in a rookie draft, a draft where very few key forwards have ever succeeded. You're not getting Nick Riewoldt with that type of pick. You're lucky to get one game from those types let alone 100. Given his limitations he did the job filling the gap between losing Henderson/Waite and the younger ones developing as well as giving fine support in the ruck. Took him a few years to get on the main list and even then, outside of VFL Finals, where he excelled, he didn't have a great VFL career and may have been lucky to be around. Even then got a game because we got crippled with injury. Given where we picked him from he did better than we thought and did a reasonable job at the right time when he was needed. It's time now we go with McKay instead but I was happy he was around.
That type of guy can give you a sense of false hope. While he is wearing our colours I will support him every inch, but I think he has been a weight on the team and we would have been better off cutting him loose a while ago, and looking for a proper mentor for our young forwards.
Other than an early game and that game against the whorks where he kicked four and rucked all day, been waiting for this bloke to have a day out, kick a bag, grow confidence and silence the critics. But all we ever got was the odd goal here and there, some awful misses and ever more ammunition for the critics. Unfortunately he never seemed to be able to get to that next level.
That type of guy can give you a sense of false hope. While he is wearing our colours I will support him every inch, but I think he has been a weight on the team and we would have been better off cutting him loose a while ago, and looking for a proper mentor for our young forwards.
That has always been my argument, the price you pay for carrying a Levi type player is significant in my opinion, maybe I am wrong but our results and team mindset seem to subjectively support that perspective.
Levi gives everybody a lift when he does well, but most of the time he is better described by the term deflating, and he has too many bad habits or traits to pass onto the kids! The worry for me, if those traits are passed onto our kids and become habits I'm not sure they can be easily undone if at all!
When I see McKay hanging out the back of the marking contest, looking for a soft mark or cheap goal, it makes my skin crawl! McKay wasn't like that when he arrived, but it seems to have become his preferred mode of operation lately! I'd rather Kerr leading up the guts taking no prisoners and not having the ball kicked to him, than see McKay roving cheap goals off the back of a Wright, SPS or Lamb marking contest!
Even McKay's highlight against Carlilse the other week, he was praised by many for that run. But reality is it came off a weak approach to the football, holding back allowing the footy to bounce, followed by an explosion of pace once the ball hit the ground. Why not just make the effort to get to the drop and mark it in the first place, the Johnathon Brown play instead of the Eddie Betts! Perhaps he was just too late, perhaps hesitated, perhaps he decided he couldn't get to the fall of the ball, well at least I hope that was the case and not the alternative!
I feel a bit sorry for Levi.
He's probably had the least effective midfield to work with in our recent history.
He was for a time our only tall target.
Recognising this he was often playing against two guys with a ball landing on his head.
We lacked the small forwards to benefit from his contested work.
Yes, his kicking was/is woeful. Deflating sometimes....I just feel he would have been a lot more effective with more support.
I feel a bit sorry for Levi.
He's probably had the least effective midfield to work with in our recent history.
He was for a time our only tall target.
Recognising this he was often playing against two guys with a ball landing on his head.
We lacked the small forwards to benefit from his contested work.
Yes, his kicking was/is woeful. Deflating sometimes....I just feel he would have been a lot more effective with more support.
Think he will get picked up probably by a team who miss on Lynch or maybe even GC then we will see how effective he is with a better team....probably kick a bag when he plays
us and continue the tradition of ex players burning us.... ;)
We have a reasonably good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game is played on grass...lol.
They could do a Croswell on grass. :)
That type of guy can give you a sense of false hope. While he is wearing our colours I will support him every inch, but I think he has been a weight on the team and we would have been better off cutting him loose a while ago, and looking for a proper mentor for our young forwards.
There wasn't many around for that and if there was they were unlikely to come to us. To kick 34 goals last year as essentially a 2nd ruck that's a decent output for a guy from deep in the rookie draft in a club that struggles badly to kick a goal. Player of limited ability who managed to fill a big hole reasonably decently given there was no-one else. Don't think it was ever a plan for him to be our no.1 forward. Might've been more dangerous as no.2 forward in a better side. There was never going to be a big breakout game as he wasn't that good. Probably made the most out of limited ability.
I agree with most of that, but still think his "almost" ability kept him on the list longer than he should have been.
I don't begrudge him anything. He seems like a really likable guy. But sometimes not changing things up hurts you, and I think it did for us.
And for what it's worth, I think he is the sort of player who may do much better as second forward, but if he is number one, especially in a side that seems to have a "kick to number one at all cost" mentality, he is causing more problems, through no fault of his own (other than his kicking).
There wasn't many around for that and if there was they were unlikely to come to us. To kick 34 goals last year as essentially a 2nd ruck that's a decent output for a guy from deep in the rookie draft in a club that struggles badly to kick a goal. Player of limited ability who managed to fill a big hole reasonably decently given there was no-one else. Don't think it was ever a plan for him to be our no.1 forward. Might've been more dangerous as no.2 forward in a better side. There was never going to be a big breakout game as he wasn't that good. Probably made the most out of limited ability.
That's a pretty accurate summary and I reckon Levi has had an outstanding career given his limited ability.
While you may be right about him being a better player in a better side, I think that the fact that he has managed 100 games is in no small part due to our poor list management ... and the scarcity of quality key forwards.
Levi and Vickery are chalk and cheese; the latter was a high draft pick with the ability and attributes to be a dominant ruck/forward but who lacked the necessary application.
The outcome was the same for Levi and Vickery though - both underwhelming. Call that chalk or call it cheese.
Levi may get a gig somewhere or other and that may provide him an opportunity to find some future success - personally I wish him well.
Glad that Shaw was omitted. Woeful in his two games and looks a LONG way of AFL level. As for Levi, needs a good run at it in the VFL and see if he can take some marks and kick some goals. Still think he's worth a position on the list even if it's just as a back up ruckmen/forward. Phillips is always injured, Kruezer looks closer to the end than we'd like and other than that it's Lobbe who was only recruited as a back up back up ruckman....the cupboard looks bare otherwise.
The outcome was the same for Levi and Vickery though - both underwhelming. Call that chalk or call it cheese.
Levi may get a gig somewhere or other and that may provide him an opportunity to find some future success - personally I wish him well.
Isn’t Levi contracted for another year?
We need him on the list as back up, unless we trade in a better ruck/forward.
Isn’t Levi contracted for another year?
We need him on the list as back up, unless we trade in a better ruck/forward.
I wish him success wherever he plays next year. There's been some suggestion on here that he may be traded as part of a deal or he may see his time out with us if we can't get a better option.
We need him on the list as back up, unless we trade in a better ruck/forward.
It's interesting, if we had a stable D50 I think we quite possibly already have a better backup option.
I was very impressed with Rowe's fleeting run up forward a few weeks ago, showed real intent, and it created some opportunities for our smalls even if he didn't clunk the pill himself.
This week will be interesting, no Jones from kick-off, not sure there will be an opportunity to try Rowe up forward this week given the team we've picked. Can't see Marchbank at CHB, that will certainly be Weitering who played well on 2mP last time they matched up, GC are not so tall in F50. GC lost two +195cm and brought in three 185cm types.
^
Maybe that’s why Rowe was recalled ???
He was recruited as a CHF but was about as effective as Jones. He is a good kick for goal though.
He did say that he hadn’t prepared for a forward role and was able to freelance. Teague’s forward structures may constrain his ability to impact as a forward.
I wish him success wherever he plays next year. There's been some suggestion on here that he may be traded as part of a deal or he may see his time out with us if we can't get a better option.
If Levi is as bad as some folk think, why would any team consider trading him in :-\
I reckon he’s ours until he retires or is delisted but like you, I wish him success whether it’s with us, the NBs or any team that ends up below us on the ladder next season ;)
^
Maybe that’s why Rowe was recalled ???
He was recruited as a CHF but was about as effective as Jones. He is a good kick for goal though.
He did say that he hadn’t prepared for a forward role and was able to freelance. Teague’s forward structures may constrain his ability to impact as a forward.
I have to say I had expected a bigger change under Teague, but as Cpt Willard says, "I don't see any method at all, sir!"
I have to say I had expected a bigger change under Teague, but as Cpt Willard says, "I don't see any method at all, sir!"
You can’t change much if you don’t have raw material ... and, as we’re all well aware, it’s not just our forward line that’s lacking ????
You can’t change much if you don’t have raw material ... and, as we’re all well aware, it’s not just our forward line that’s lacking ????
Yes you have to guard against changes that just become an exercise in "shuffling deck chairs". Better to keep players in the roles that suit them best and they are comfortable in imo - as far as you can of course. Sometimes "needs must".
If Levi is as bad as some folk think, why would any team consider trading him in :-\
I reckon he’s ours until he retires or is delisted but like you, I wish him success whether it’s with us, the NBs or any team that ends up below us on the ladder next season ;)
I don't think he's bad. I think he could be very effective in a team that can actually use a forward target, and we really do struggle to get out of defense when Levi isn't there, but I think he's run his race with us.
We want our kids to stand up tonight! They might be our future, but we want a present as well!
That's a pretty accurate summary and I reckon Levi has had an outstanding career given his limited ability.
While you may be right about him being a better player in a better side, I think that the fact that he has managed 100 games is in no small part due to our poor list management ... and the scarcity of quality key forwards.
Levi and Vickery are chalk and cheese; the latter was a high draft pick with the ability and attributes to be a dominant ruck/forward but who lacked the necessary application.
I recently did an exercise of picking our best 22 to have been recruited to the club since our last flag, excluding from consideration recruits from the last 2 years as not having had time to make a case for themselves. I went with 1 ruckman (Kreuzer preferred to French) and Corey McKernan as forward/relief ruck. I toyed with excluding McKernan given he was at the club for only 2 years but his B&F/leading goalkicker double in year 1 got him over the line. But had I excluded him Levi would have been well in the race to take that role over. Only Sam Rowe or Sean Hampson might have beaten him for the spot. The remaining options (given Laurence Angwin wasted his incredible talents) were all either ruckmen who gave little forward or forwards who were not much chop in the ruck. That process made me reconsider just how much Levi has got out of himself and how much value we have got out of a late rookie pick.
FWIW here is the 22 I came up with, and some comments:
I was just working through an exercise of putting together our best 22 recruited post our last premiership. In doing the exercise I left out players from the last 2 years on the basis of lack of longevity, although I included Corey McKernan based on only 2 years given his B&F/leading goalkicker double in his first year at the club. I only considered the players career at Carlton, so for example Sam Jacobs was overlooked. I also went with the single ruckman with a forward who could ruck as back-up. If picking a second specialist ruck I would have gone Barnaby French who is really the only other ruckman to have established himself in the team for any length of time.
This is what I came up with:
Kade Simpson Michael Jamison Bret Thornton
Sam Docherty Jarrad Waite Heath Scotland
Nick Stevens Patrick Cripps Ryan Houlihan
Bryce Gibbs Lance Whitnall Charlie Curnow
Corey McKernan Brendan Fevola Eddie Betts
Matthew Kreuzer Chris Judd Mark Murphy
Andrew Carrazzo Lachie Henderson Matthew Lappin Andrew Walker
Notably there is not one player there recruited to the club as a key backman in the National Draft (Jamison and Thornton being rookied). But frankly the cupboard was bare. Given that Weitering, Plowman and Marchbank were in the draft year before last and so excluded, this is the list of others recruited as primarily key backs:
Ben Sexton, Stephen O'Reilly, Luke Livingston, Mick Martyn, Kris Massie, Jason Sadington, Murray Vance, Karl Norman, Paul Bower, Mark Austin, Matthew Watson, and Patrick McCarthy. Not much there!
Reckon Saddo went ok, could play....
Pies are warming, fires on, snacks are ready, dog's fed, Mrs Baggers is shaking her head at the prospect of watching us again... yep, ready to watch the BlueBaggers. Go Blues.
I wonder who will be the first to go down injured? Marchbank? Lang? Byrne? Kennedy? ;) :D :P