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Re: Rd 13: Pre Game posturing: Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #30
I don't have an issue with H playing, not at all. In fact I am dying to see him in the big time.
I would just perhaps like us to look at our structure a little and consider if we play Cas or if we move another taller player out and bring in some real pace at the base of the packs if we do play Cas and H together, hence the thought of giving SOS a run in the backline for a week.

I don't think there would be too many that don't want to see H at this level, most people are dying for it (me included).

Finally would be nice to have two marking targets in the forward line. That means Casboult doesn't have multiple defenders going to him all the time. Ideally, as a back up ruckman you'd want him as the 2nd forward not the dual responsibility as the number one forward and ruck. SOS plays as the 3rd tall meaning C.Curnow can play more in the midfield.

Re: Rd 13: Pre Game posturing: Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #31
No ideally you wouldn't have him in the team at all.

The talk about him getting multiple defenders isn't fact. It might be the way people see it, but I don't see his runs cut off and two people hanging off him. It is amazing it now seems because of where we are teams are giving him the same treatment as Carey.

He is paid to be our target forward, he can't be claimed to be the best contested mark in the competition, but only suited to being the second forward, doesn't really add up.

Anyway... I am more concerned about too much height. Collingwood done it earlier this year (from memory also against us) where they had 2-3 tall forwards that were simply slow movers and it just was terrible.

It can work sure, but I have reservations about the mix.
Goals for 2017
=============
Play the most anti-social football in the AFL


Re: Rd 13: Pre Game posturing: Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #32
Finally would be nice to have two marking targets in the forward line. That means Casboult doesn't have multiple defenders going to him all the time. Ideally, as a back up ruckman you'd want him as the 2nd forward not the dual responsibility as the number one forward and ruck. SOS plays as the 3rd tall meaning C.Curnow can play more in the midfield.

That's pretty close but SOJ doesn't really play as a third tall.  He is more of a hybrid, opportunistic forward who also bobs up in defence and the midfield.  Charlie Curnow and Patrick Cripps are our third talls.
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

Re: Rd 13: Pre Game posturing: Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #33
Despite all the qualms about Levi I will be very interested to see him play alongside H.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: Rd 13: Pre Game posturing: Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #34
Despite all the qualms about Levi I will be very interested to see him play alongside H.

I've seen McKay take very short stints in the ruck, but I can't recall seeing him ever spend time in the back half, but could this be BBs plan for McKay introduction if it happens?

Statistically, CC and Sumner both had a quiet game. McKay is very mobile, could Sumner be out and McKay in along with another to cover ACoS? Sheehan, Byrne even?

Surely not Byrne after just 1/2 a game, yet we played SPS after zero games! But of the VFL group, Casey looked the one ready for AFL from the get go!

On the Sumner issue, I wouldn't be surprised to see Buckley close to another run at AFL level with someone like Williamson being released further up the field.
The Force Awakens!

Re: Rd 13: Pre Game posturing: Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #35
Very interesting to see which way they go this week.

I think its time to throw Harry in with ACOS out. This leaves us a little thin down back, but I can't see them bringing in KJ who can play both forward and back.

You would have to think they will give SPS a game at Northern before bringing him back from a 2 week spell. But his pace would be handy against these blokes.

My main issue remains the structure and output of the forward line. Charlie, Fisher, Sumner and SOJ are at this stage cameo players only, and none of them are hitting the scoreboard regularly. Hopefully this will come in time, but at the moment we are very exposed due to our often poor defensive / tackle pressure inside 50. GC love to run off HB and we need to stop this run at the source.

I would think about bringing Pickett back in for Fisher - he does some nice things but he needs to make a real impact, which I don't think he can do with his size. Sumner goes ok, but doesn't do enough and doesn't hit the scoreboard. He has 1 goal, 17 disposals and 4 tackles in 2 games - that's just not enough at this level, and is pretty indicative of his career numbers as well. I'd rather they give one of the other guys a chance to see if they can do more in that role.

Re: Rd 13: Pre Game posturing: Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #36
No ideally you wouldn't have him in the team at all.

The talk about him getting multiple defenders isn't fact. It might be the way people see it, but I don't see his runs cut off and two people hanging off him. It is amazing it now seems because of where we are teams are giving him the same treatment as Carey.

He is paid to be our target forward, he can't be claimed to be the best contested mark in the competition, but only suited to being the second forward, doesn't really add up.

Anyway... I am more concerned about too much height. Collingwood done it earlier this year (from memory also against us) where they had 2-3 tall forwards that were simply slow movers and it just was terrible.

It can work sure, but I have reservations about the mix.

It's one thing Collingwood lack is tall forwards. They didn't have Jessie White. Only had Darcy Moore, who's still developing, and Mason Cox, a slow moving 7 footer, a glacier up forward who should be a ruckman. McKay will be nothing like that. We're playing two forwards who are forwards, even if one is doing the forward/ruck job. Height is the least of the issue. Remember too the Pies had the likes of Elliot, Sidebottom and Fasolo on their forward line too so they didn't exactly lack run.

It doesn't add up only because you have an agenda with Levi. If a longer ball comes in where are the defenders going to go, to your only tall marking option. He's paid to be our forward and ruck, a job he is doing pretty well this well. He'd had a good year this year, much like 2015 and it's proven you wrong, something rarely posters admit to. He's not exactly getting paid like a gun key forward as we know he's not but he's is doing his job, influencing many contests physically and had involvement in a number of scores last week. Tough gig being the only key forward and ruck as well. He and Kreuzer and have been our best ruck combination for quite a while. Kreuzer thrives working with Levi as he gets alot more time on the ball. Levi needs help though with another marking target. Ideally you're like your forward, who's rucking to be your second forward. Levi isn't really a no.1 forward and not likely to be given given he was pick 44 in a rookie draft, but he's playing his role well and be well suited to backing up a gun key forward.  McKay won't be slowing anyone down if you watch the VFL. Doesn't lack pace, marks strongly and applies pressure.


Re: Rd 13: Pre Game posturing: Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #37
Nice post laj.
Finals, then 4 in a row!

Re: Rd 13: Pre Game posturing: Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #38
It doesn't add up only because you have an agenda with Levi. If a longer ball comes in where are the defenders going to go, to your only tall marking option. He's paid to be our forward and ruck, a job he is doing pretty well this well. He'd had a good year this year, much like 2015 and it's proven you wrong, something rarely posters admit to.

I am just going to address this point, because you are wrong.
I am not a fan of Levi, I openly state that and don't snipe from behind that, but I never called for him to be dropped. I asked simply whether or not it would be better to move another medium/tall out and try another small in there if we have H and Levi in there.

I asked this because you don't see a lot of forward lines with a 200cm and 198 cm working together and thought if we have both I would want a lot of ground speed in there, hence.. do you move SOS out of the forward line for a week.
I don't think Levi is doing a good job this year, I think he is almost serviceable or even possibly passable, but no more and I don't hide that. He hasn't proven me wrong, his game this weekend again was nothing special and happen to include two very important misses from easy shots.

I am open when I am criticising Levi, my signature for goodness sake criticises him, so I am not sniping.
And as I said in this exact thread.. I would be more comfortable with Levi & Weiters or H and Weiters, simply because I am comfortable with Weitering's ability at ground level.

As for admitting when I am wrong. I am vocal in my criticism of Liam Jones as well (or have been), yet I am loving this new born defender at the moment and thought he was sensational on the weekend. You might like the idea of 2 x 2m forwards (or thereabouts) I am not 100% convinced by it. On occasion it will work and I fear on occasion it is possibly too tall.

I use Collingwood as an example as they have played very tall at times and it was atrocious.

You might find my dislike of what Casboult has given the club distasteful and you know what that is fine, you are entitled to it does not worry me in the slightest. Just as I find it a little sickening that his output is defended as something we should find acceptable for an AFL footballer. Our standards should be so much higher than that (imo), but that belongs in the Levi Casboult thread. Levi has not come close to proving me wrong, Levi of 2017 still isn't good enough to be a regular player in a good team and needs to be replaced. If you think otherwise all power to you.

My question in this thread was simple.. Is H good enough at ground level that we can play him and Cas and SOS (who is yes more of a medium/tall) or do we swap out SOS and put someone (even a Pickett) so that we have more pace at the fall of the ball?

It has been mentioned that H is quick, which is great. So if that also equates to on the ground pressure then there is no worry. I don't know enough about H's forward pressure to say either way, hence I ask the question.

Goals for 2017
=============
Play the most anti-social football in the AFL


Re: Rd 13: Pre Game posturing: Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #39
Some interesting questions.
I have my own for this week. Consider these:
[1] With Alex Silvagni being unavailable for 4 weeks and Rowe being injured long term, do we need to bolster the defence?
GC do not have a huge number of tall targets and we do have Caleb Marchbank who can play on any tall not muscled like Arnie. We may consider bring in White, who can play tall or mid. We may also consider bringing in a smaller, quicker defender, as we tend to leak goals to smaller forwards rather than taller ones. Or do we bring in Ciaran Sheahan, who offers smarts, an excellent left foot and excellent concentration and strength? Interesting thought.

[2] Losing a tall like Silvagni, should we bring in a tall forward instead?
At present Harry McKay would seem to be the obvious choice. He has some way to go, but he has shown enough in recent times to get him into the selection picture. H can ruck somewhat and he does have mobility and great hands.
If we think of going for a taller forward, McKay has the edge over the others at the moment, although there is still competition.

[3] We had a few guys who didn't get a lot of the ball last week; Liam Sumner (9 possessions), Tom Williamson (10), Zac Fisher (12) and Jed Lamb (15) come to mind. There is a case to keep any and all of them, but it is reasonably probably that SPS may come directly into the team this week. Should he?
I think SPS is a high probability to be selected. His form has been pretty good and he provides speed and X-Factor to our forward line and midfield.
Of the 4 mentioned, Fisher and Sumner appear under the most pressure, as they had very few possessions for guys who spent time in the midfield. Nick Graham (and a few others) put their hands up in the 2nds.
I think Fisher could do with a few weeks in the VFL. He is young and would appreciate more time developing his skills in the centre square. That doesn't happen so much in the seniors.
Sumner was in the play a lot more than his 9 possessions suggest, but Graham would be more likely to get 18 - 21 possessions per game, based on his form this season.

[4] Should we make ANY unforced changes?
When we win, we RARELY change the team. This has been a trend for a long time and I do not expect it to change. I have suggest changes for a long time, but do not heed my calls. Often the performance of those in the team make my contributions look silly.
Last week had a clear example: playing Daisy with no time in the VFL to gain form. I was not a fan of this idea. I thought (and still do) that Daisy's body probably needs a warm up game. Instead Daisy really put in.

At this point I am thinking:
In: SPS & Harry McKay
Out: A Silvagni and Fisher

Now that I have written this, I expect the club to do just about anything except make these 2 changes. :)
Live Long and Prosper!

Re: Rd 13: Pre Game posturing: Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #40
Some interesting questions.
I have my own for this week. Consider these:
[1] With Alex Silvagni being unavailable for 4 weeks and Rowe being injured long term, do we need to bolster the defence?
GC do not have a huge number of tall targets and we do have Caleb Marchbank who can play on any tall not muscled like Arnie. We may consider bring in White, who can play tall or mid. We may also consider bringing in a smaller, quicker defender, as we tend to leak goals to smaller forwards rather than taller ones. Or do we bring in Ciaran Sheahan, who offers smarts, an excellent left foot and excellent concentration and strength? Interesting thought.

[2] Losing a tall like Silvagni, should we bring in a tall forward instead?
At present Harry McKay would seem to be the obvious choice. He has some way to go, but he has shown enough in recent times to get him into the selection picture. H can ruck somewhat and he does have mobility and great hands.
If we think of going for a taller forward, McKay has the edge over the others at the moment, although there is still competition.

[3] We had a few guys who didn't get a lot of the ball last week; Liam Sumner (9 possessions), Tom Williamson (10), Zac Fisher (12) and Jed Lamb (15) come to mind. There is a case to keep any and all of them, but it is reasonably probably that SPS may come directly into the team this week. Should he?
I think SPS is a high probability to be selected. His form has been pretty good and he provides speed and X-Factor to our forward line and midfield.
Of the 4 mentioned, Fisher and Sumner appear under the most pressure, as they had very few possessions for guys who spent time in the midfield. Nick Graham (and a few others) put their hands up in the 2nds.
I think Fisher could do with a few weeks in the VFL. He is young and would appreciate more time developing his skills in the centre square. That doesn't happen so much in the seniors.
Sumner was in the play a lot more than his 9 possessions suggest, but Graham would be more likely to get 18 - 21 possessions per game, based on his form this season.

[4] Should we make ANY unforced changes?
When we win, we RARELY change the team. This has been a trend for a long time and I do not expect it to change. I have suggest changes for a long time, but do not heed my calls. Often the performance of those in the team make my contributions look silly.
Last week had a clear example: playing Daisy with no time in the VFL to gain form. I was not a fan of this idea. I thought (and still do) that Daisy's body probably needs a warm up game. Instead Daisy really put in.

At this point I am thinking:
In: SPS & Harry McKay
Out: A Silvagni and Fisher

Now that I have written this, I expect the club to do just about anything except make these 2 changes. :)

I agree with what you have written, and agree that we largely need to be choosing players based on form, and its conceivable that we get Jaksch back into the team this week as he provides us some flexibility.

We can start him forward, and then if that doesnt work swap him with either of Jones/Weitering.

If we go with Harry, we are pretty much stuck with Harry being up forward, and the only thing we can shuffle is Kreuzer forward, and Levi into the ruck.

We dont really want Harry in the ruck at this stage of the journey as although GC's ruck division isnt the most vaunted, it does have 2 metre Peter who got off the leash last time against us, particularly when resting forward, and we still have Tom Lynch to contend with.

Versatility might win out against form this week at the selection table.  We need to make a call on Jaksch this season.  It might be time to see what we have (or don't have with him).
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Rd 13: Pre Game posturing: Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #41
But Crash, we need to make one forced change due to ACOS.
I think bring in Harry only because we all want to see him play.  ;D
2024... Moir of the same to come

Re: Rd 13: Pre Game posturing: Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #42
40% chance of rain on the Gold Coast for game time, cannot see us playing both McKay and Casboult under those conditions.

Any evening rain up there combined with the humidity makes the ball soap like!

Maybe Casboult's lack of ground level impact has given way to McKay as a replacement, McKay looks pretty mobile and handy at ground level for a guy 200cm. McKay seems at least as capable as Rowe at ground level.
The Force Awakens!

Re: Rd 13: Pre Game posturing: Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #43
40% chance of rain on the Gold Coast for game time, cannot see us playing both McKay and Casboult under those conditions.

Any evening rain up there combined with the humidity makes the ball soap like!

Maybe Casboult's lack of ground level impact has given way to McKay as a replacement, McKay looks pretty mobile and handy at ground level for a guy 200cm. McKay seems at least as capable as Rowe at ground level.

McKay isn't going to ruck. We need Casboult for that. Anyway, 60% it won't rain.

All will be revealed in 3 hours.

Re: Rd 13: Pre Game posturing: Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #44
In: Boekhurst and SPS

Out: A Silvagni and Sumner

Both injured
Goals for 2017
=============
Play the most anti-social football in the AFL