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11
The Sports Desk / Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Last post by DJC -
Smith and Marnus out cheaply again..

I guess Marnus has got a way to go before he’s in a Mark Taylor “I’m batting well in the nets” form slump.

I’ve always thought that Smith is vulnerable early in his innings and that seems to be more the case when he’s opening.

I wonder if the pitch will get a bad report 🤔
12
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: AFL Rd 0R 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Brisbane v Carlton
Last post by Gointocarlton -
Lij Hollands is an out and Kennedy is a possible replacement, depending on his match fitness.  I'd prefer to see Binns get a run.  He was lively when he came on.  I would be tempted to play Moir in the Jack Martin role.

It's going to be a tough ask without Weiters, Walsh and Martin and with Brisbane close to full strength.  The temperature and humidity won't help either but we've had similar conditions for training and our practice matches.
I wish I could lip read because after the game, the two coaches came together on the boundary line and were talking and I dont know why but I had a feeling that Goody asked Vossy if Walshy will play round OR and Vossy looked to me like he as was saying "yeh probably" or something like that. I recorded the game so I might have another look at that bit and see if I can make it out.
13
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: 2024 Practice Match Carlton vs Melbourne
Last post by Lods -
Given its all subjective and given the relative nature of that.

The answer will be different depending on it comes from and who is looking at it.
I'd like to think 'no'.

I think that highlights an issue we sometimes have.
And it's not necesarily a totally negative issue.
We all admire different aspects of a team.
We admire different aspects of a player.
We have our favourites...we tend to minimise their faults because we see an overall postive.
We have players we're not sure are going to make it....we see their deficiencies and don't give as much weight to their positives.
Two posters can look at the same player through completely different eyes.

So what will often happen is that a poster will criticise a player, basically write him off...but someone else who appreciates what that player brings will jump to the defence.

It's not percieved as a bias by the original poster, but it certainly is received by the reader as such.
And in fact it often 'is'.
It's a criticism that isn't entirely fair because it's not balanced by praise when the player performs well.
That's reinforced when every time the player is mentioned you get the critic making a post, but rarely mentioning him when he does well.
(The bias can also be a positive bias.)

But that's the way these places work.
How they will always work
And actually that debate is part of a forum's life force.
It keeps the place humming.

We're all biased.
The first step to a cure is recognising you have a problem  and not living in denial. :D  :D
15
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: 2024 Practice Match Carlton vs Melbourne
Last post by Lods -
LOB did have some good games as well. He even showed a bit of agro in some. I think it was a game against the pies where he gave a solid 'don't argue' to the tackler and put him on his butt and kept on his way. His kicking was also something to behold.....when he didn't get overwhelmed by pressure.

Lods says "you're only as good as your last game." and its a saying oft told. However, there are contradictory sayings as well.
Things are never as good, or as bad, as they seem.
Which can be used for warning people off using recent form as a predictor for long term form. That is, just because you played well last game (or poorly) doesn't mean that you will play that well (or poorly) in every game.

Ultimately, i prefer to NOT use the most recent game to make judgements, but seek more data. There are exceptions though. You don't need more than 1 game to realise Eddie Betts is not a ruckman. Some players have (or don't have) certain attributes, be that physical or mental and that is evident without a form line.

I remember back in the day watching Bryce Gibbs in an U18's game. It was evident from the half a match i watched that he had 'time', poise, vision. Some things you can see straight away. In Boyds case, it was the opposite. He had none of those things. He's not the only one. Other players have made it without those attributes in the past and others will in the future....but if i were placing bets on chances of players making it without those attributes, you would always bet against them for the best odds.
Maybe Boyd is the exception. Maybe his early games were the exception.

Im not the only one that had the same conclusions.

I've got no allegiance for or against him, or pittonet, or tdk or silvagni or anyone else people accuse me of having bias for/against. My interests are always for whats best for the team, the list, and the club. At the end of the day, i don't give a stuff which players get us the 17th flag, just that we get it. If i trod on a few players feelings (and posters feelings who they are favourites of) then so be it.

I don't actually believe that "you're only as good as your last game"
It's a footy cliche "like one week at a time."
I look for a body of work.
Sometimes a positive aspect, although identifiable, takes a while to show itself under the pressure and intensity of AFL.
But good 'last games' and recent form is what gets you a spot in a side and a chance to show what you can do.
If Boyd stagnates or goes off the boil he will drop back in the pecking order

I just wonder though...when we go with an initial judgement like
"I wrote him off after 1 game."

Do we resist, to some extent, what comes after and push back against the positives as the player develops and gets confidence at a senior level
16
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: 2024 Practice Match Carlton vs Melbourne
Last post by kruddler -
Now, K, old son, surely you're taking the mickey comparing Boyd to LOB? Boyd puts his body on the line (fearless), has some agro and if anything can be too zealous with his attack on opponent and aggott. I admit, I like his game and especially his attitude. Plus it must be remembered, regardless of his age, he's only played sixteen games as a senior player! A work in progress and definitely improving.

LOB did have some good games as well. He even showed a bit of agro in some. I think it was a game against the pies where he gave a solid 'don't argue' to the tackler and put him on his butt and kept on his way. His kicking was also something to behold.....when he didn't get overwhelmed by pressure.

Lods says "you're only as good as your last game." and its a saying oft told. However, there are contradictory sayings as well.
Things are never as good, or as bad, as they seem.
Which can be used for warning people off using recent form as a predictor for long term form. That is, just because you played well last game (or poorly) doesn't mean that you will play that well (or poorly) in every game.

Ultimately, i prefer to NOT use the most recent game to make judgements, but seek more data. There are exceptions though. You don't need more than 1 game to realise Eddie Betts is not a ruckman. Some players have (or don't have) certain attributes, be that physical or mental and that is evident without a form line.

I remember back in the day watching Bryce Gibbs in an U18's game. It was evident from the half a match i watched that he had 'time', poise, vision. Some things you can see straight away. In Boyds case, it was the opposite. He had none of those things. He's not the only one. Other players have made it without those attributes in the past and others will in the future....but if i were placing bets on chances of players making it without those attributes, you would always bet against them for the best odds.
Maybe Boyd is the exception. Maybe his early games were the exception.

Im not the only one that had the same conclusions.

I've got no allegiance for or against him, or pittonet, or tdk or silvagni or anyone else people accuse me of having bias for/against. My interests are always for whats best for the team, the list, and the club. At the end of the day, i don't give a stuff which players get us the 17th flag, just that we get it. If i trod on a few players feelings (and posters feelings who they are favourites of) then so be it.
17
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: AFL Rd 0R 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Brisbane v Carlton
Last post by DJC -
Lets get things started shall we.
A few questions to ask:
1.. Will Walshy get up?
Possibly.  I believe that his back injury will be ever present and has to be managed by lighter training loads than normal.  It could be a line ball but I suspect we'll be conservative.

2. Will Motlop miss?
It was reported at the time that he was taken out of the game as a precaution.  As Vossy often says, it will depend on the results of the scans.  I'm tipping that he'll play.

3. Do Williams and Kennedy come in?
Probably not on the back of limited pre-season minutes.  Kennedy looked good though.

4. Do we play TDK and Pitto or TDK and H?
I can't see how we could play Pitto on Wednesday's form.  Short of a gallop and didn't really get near it.  The King and Harry for me.

5. Does/Can Marchy come in or is he hurt also?
Marchy is recovering from a virus (long COVID?) and is a couple of weeks away.

A lacklustre performance tonight to say the least, but I'm reliably told its a praccy match and so just ignore it.

From what I saw of Young tonight, Durdin plays if he is fit.
Tall Durds has played in one VFL practice match and I don't think they'll take a chance with him.  I thought Young and Kemp did OK.

Despite H hurting my eyes in the ruck, Pitto made him look like Big Nic.
Harry must have spent a lot of the summer working with Matty K and he provides so much more around the ground than Pitto.

I think Williams and Kennedy need to come in for sure.
Kennedy possibly but I doubt whether Zac is ready.

Cant see us beating the Lions up there, but Ill wipe tonight from my memory and say you never know.

Lij Hollands is an out and Kennedy is a possible replacement, depending on his match fitness.  I'd prefer to see Binns get a run.  He was lively when he came on.  I would be tempted to play Moir in the Jack Martin role.

It's going to be a tough ask without Weiters, Walsh and Martin and with Brisbane close to full strength.  The temperature and humidity won't help either but we've had similar conditions for training and our practice matches.
19
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: 2024 Practice Match Carlton vs Melbourne
Last post by shawny -
That was his best game for us and by some margin. But it is a one off at this stage.

Remember Nick Duigan being the finals hero against the tigers?
Next week against Sydney he was average.
He never played again.

So be careful about '1 good game'.

Go back and watch some of his efforts last year and there was a lot of under (a little bit of) pressure moments where he simply folded. There was a lot of similarities between him and LOB. The latter also had some positive moments, but they were the exception rather than the rule.

Best thing going for Boyd is that he is one of the only blokes on our list who can play on a small forward in a lockdown role. Other blokes like Saad, Docherty, Williams, even Newman are better off as attacking players rather than lock down players.

I'm happy for him to keep proving me wrong. I'm not changing my tune after 1 game and 1 pre-season game.

Omg he has played 9-10 games. You wrote him off after he made some turnovers in his first game and its like you wont dare admit you may have gone a tad early.

You were adamant your opinion on Young being useless was all confirmed in the first practice match yet in Boyds case lets not read much into it cause its just a practice match.

Am i missing something.
20
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: 2024 Practice Match Carlton vs Melbourne
Last post by DJC -
We lost to Sydney by 43 points in the equivalent practice match last year.

With Vossy leaving the coaching to Ash Hansen, I’m not sure that there’s much we can learn about how we’ll play in opening round and beyond.

The usual suspects in the midfield showed that they’ll be a force again, and Chugga’s return in the VFL was promising.  I was disappointed in Lij Hollands’ performance but Binns was good in his limited time on the ground.

Pitto struggled against Gawn.  While that’s not unexpected, the big fella seems to be labouring and I doubt whether he’ll be ready for opening round.  However, we seem to have found a promising young ruckman in Harry McKay.

Our forward line wasn’t as potent after Motlop went off.  Fantasia showed that he’ll be a depth player and we really need Martin and Owies/Durdin in the mix.

The defence was under the pump from lack of pressure up the ground but I thought that Kemp and Young were much better than last game.  Gov had a game to forget but, hopefully, that will be a one off.  We really miss Weitering’s leadership and ability to beat his opponent, whoever that may be.  His absence makes it a lot harder for the remaining defenders.

Zac Williams got through his practice match, as did Sam Durdin.  Williams has to be a chance to play against Brisbane but I think we’ll go with Young and Kemp as our key defenders. 
 
At the other end of the ground, Charlie seems to be building for another big season.