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11
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: AFL Rd 17 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood
Last post by Thryleon -
Its not the number of changes its the role and how its played.  We are already not well drilled.  We have a few blokes trying to learn running patterns and then add too many doing that and you demoralise the rest. 

We've only played about 3 to 4 players with minimal afl experience most weeks.

I expect that to continue not because of the names but because its something Carlton hasn't had before.  We tend to scorch earth rebuild, so everyone is learning together.
12
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: AFL Rd 18 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane
Last post by Thryleon -
I cant fathom this never see it ever again. The guys we are talking about are 27 turning 28. 

Most players peak at these ages, and having an injury now isnt an indicator of the future.

Its so defeatist.

It's not defeatist Thry
It's facing reality.
One or two may get back to a semblance of their best.
Others are passed it, and are approaching the end of their careers
And some have suffered significant injuries, not just once , but have had a number of seasons derailed by injury.
Injuries can have a cumulative effect.
When you're young you can recover quickly.
As you age it takes it's toll.
Injuries to a back can lead to compensatory injuries in the hamstrings, calves and feet, due to an imbalance.
Some injuries are degenerative and time (and age) is the enemy.

Now in a group you may get one or two who can make a full recovery and play there best football in their late 20's early 30s.
But if that group is large, the more likely result is that you've seen the best of some of these players.

Of our All-Australian players currently listed I would reckon the majority will never see AA again.
And that was the point.
That they'll all never reach that level again.
We'll have others who will come on...but not all of that group.
But time will tell
sorry lods I just want to say that injuries and dealing with them are part good management, part rehab, part preparation, part attitude, part patience and mostly a little luck.

1I've never met an injured bloke cut down and not capable of playing at the elite level ever again no matter the column of their injuries, they usually run out of time before they run out of lives.  Weiters has barely had a real problem.  Harry has had more issue with concussion than his body.  Charlie is unique.  He's showing the ability he used to have but his form is poor and second efforts absent.  More conditioning IMHO.  once conditioning goes optimum performance is harder to achieve but it can come back.

Pros come back from injuries in every code.  It might be we need some of these guys spending more time rehabbing and playing rather than doing any real training but only a solid pre season affords that capability.  Something they all seem to have suffered with. 

Zac williams has the worst injury history of the bunch.  Nick haynes isnt much better.  Both have played their best footy in years this season.  I think Zac's durability is still a question and given we are playing for naught now, I think weve taken the opportunity to take him off before something serious happens.
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Robert Heatley Stand / Re: AFL Rd 18 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane
Last post by pertz -
Totally agree.
Part of the issue is that some of the players you mention (Weitering, Cripps) are forced to carry an extra load because of missing parts of the structure.
It also means they lack the support that would normally allow them to play their natural games.

McKay, Curnow and especially Walsh are injury carrying/ susceptible.
They're a different kettle of fish.
I'd add Jack to that list because he's become an important part of the defensive structure this year and a support for Weitering.
To me their effectiveness and returning to something approaching their best (and that includes their durability and consistency of performance) is very much a wait and see.

That all sounds pretty reasonable to me.

Tend to agree.
The list definitely needs an overhaul. With the top end talent, some are getting near the end and tough calla need to be made (eg Doc), some may have injury concerns we don't know about (Crippa, Charlie).
The middle/bottom end needs a clean out. I would be cutting / trading in no particular order - Motlop, Fogarty, Evans, Fantasia, Acres, Williams, Young, Guv and O. Holland's.
I don't believe any of these players are the future. Cut deep now, rip off the band aid.


15
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: AFL Rd 17 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood
Last post by Thryleon -
I reckon its purely about the balance.

Last week moir, hof, and m.carrol came in.  Playing lemmey with that might mean the players play the position a bit differently to how the rest of the side expect and causes frustration everywhere.

This week, it might be Saad is back, so maybe lemmey could come in.  Also I'm not a fan of the yo yo senior selection that seems to be happening.  One in, back out next week. 

We need to try more players but if they're coming in for their debut, a few games at the level would be good.  Evans and moir didnt set the G alight but they gave plenty of effort on Friday night.  Moir even looked good at times, and I noted he's taking a turn on the ball.  Shows enough to persist with there.  Dare I say it he has saved himself particularly if we are giving up on elijah hollands (which we shouldn't do IMHO). 

Evans is a all effort player.  I really want him to succeed but he just doesnt have the kit bag imho.  Must be likeable bloke though as the guys were getting around him when he was doing his best to tackle and getting nowhere.
16
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: VFL Rd 15 2025 Carlton vs Collingwood
Last post by Thryleon -
I don't mean to be offensive, but how in God's name did Denver Grainger-Barras get selected so high? I can't say that I've seen much of him before, but he reminded me more of Monahan last season, or Duffy this season. He doesn't look smooth, he's awkward and doesn't run to the right spots ...
Granted that he was useful last night, but ...

I think he has done his dash as a defender. Do we persevere with him as a forward? He ended up getting enough ball to be dangerous and he does leap well (although he doesn't always get close to it). His kicking ... his kicking reminded more of Percy Jones, to be honest.
Be a No from me on DGB, heard some unflattering stuff about his training attitude at Hawthorn and being full of himself.
liam stocker was supposedly full of himself too, particularly after the moves sos pulled to get him.  Thing is, the Hawks dont get rid of many players with questionable attitudes so its a buyer beware situation.
17
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: AFL Rd 17 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood
Last post by kruddler -
I agree with all you've said here, but there is also the  old "to be the best you need to beat the best" and everyone a chance to pit themselves against the reigning premiers. You might find the young kids putting their hands up begging for a crack at them. If they do, it's to be encouraged I reckon. Its all part of the learning.

Yep
I'm not overly fussed if they try something like Lemmey and Ben Camporeale this week.
As Kruddler mentioned there's not a great deal hanging on it now.
We can manage the minutes.
If it turns to crap we can move a few magnets.
Just wondering though, with the changes last week, and similar changes suggested for this week...is it too much all at once.
There's probably a couple of schools of thought operating here.
One would be for trying to halting the situation with an element of stability.
The other would be for as much youth and experimentation as possible.

A combination would probably be the best approach with a couple of youngsters getting a try each week and replacing a couple of other youngsters.
Give them a couple of games each before the end of the year, and we go into the off-eason with a bit of an idea how they perform at senior level.

 Couple ways to take it.
If the kids can match it, or perform 'good enough then they can gain a huge amount of confidence.

If you save them for Melbourne and they get flogged, then they might feel more flat than if it was against the Lions.

Depends on the type of person they are and what drives them.
Was it mick or Denis or said a big game in front of a big crowd is like a final and is like 5 games of experience.
19
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: AFL Rd 17 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood
Last post by Lods -


It might be about finding the right moment and the right side to bring them in against.
Do we go for the 'hard' lesson
Moore on Lemmey, or Ben C against the Collingwood midfield might have been an excellent learning experience.
It could also be a confidence sapper.
I'm not sure the Brisbane game is the right one either.
Melbourne would be the game.
But we'll see what they do it might be this week.
When they do get their chance we have to appreciate this is just for development purposes and judge them accordingly.
Lemmey's out of contract this year but I reckon he's worth persisting with for another year

I agree with all you've said here, but there is also the  old "to be the best you need to beat the best" and everyone a chance to pit themselves against the reigning premiers. You might find the young kids putting their hands up begging for a crack at them. If they do, it's to be encouraged I reckon. Its all part of the learning.

Yep
I'm not overly fussed if they try something like Lemmey and Ben Camporeale this week.
As Kruddler mentioned there's not a great deal hanging on it now.
We can manage the minutes.
If it turns to crap we can move a few magnets.
Just wondering though, with the changes last week, and similar changes suggested for this week...is it too much all at once.
There's probably a couple of schools of thought operating here.
One would be for trying to halt or pause the situation with an element of stability.
The other would be for as much youth and experimentation as possible.

A combination would probably be the best approach with a couple of youngsters getting a try each week and replacing a couple of other youngsters.
Give them a couple of games each before the end of the year, and we go into the off-eason with a bit of an idea how they perform at senior level.