Re: Abbott must go, arise Sir Malcolm! Reply #15 – November 12, 2013, 05:05:24 pm Quote from: cookie2 – on November 12, 2013, 04:42:11 pmI equally blame the left wing loonies for the fact the republic vote failed. OK it wasn't the plebeian model they wanted but at least it was the chance for a republic - a chance lost, and lost for many years to come! It could have been modified by further referenda down the track if we thought it wasn't working but to vote "NO" at the time was a baaaaad mistake IMO and the only winners were the royalists.On the money, there, Fluffy Biscuit. The very wording of the referendum and subsequent options doomed it to failure from the start. Should have been the simple question of yes or no to a Republic... then work out the model options and put them to the electorate for vote.And, yes, the far left of the Labor Party has lost the plot... the far right of the Liberal Party has always lost the plot but now they've had two consecutive leaders (Howard and Abbott) who are only there due to the terrible failure of the Labor party to put forward a relevant / viable option.Don't get me started on Abbott Quote Selected
Re: Abbott must go, arise Sir Malcolm! Reply #16 – November 12, 2013, 06:12:20 pm The fact that he's Prime Minister reflects terribly poorly on the Labor Party Quote Selected
Re: Abbott must go, arise Sir Malcolm! Reply #17 – November 12, 2013, 06:37:11 pm Quote from: Lods – on November 12, 2013, 06:12:20 pmThe fact that he's Prime Minister reflects terribly poorly on the Labor Party yepboth retrospectively and (in the immediate term) prospectively. Quote Selected
Re: Abbott must go, arise Sir Malcolm! Reply #18 – November 12, 2013, 07:25:24 pm Quote from: Lods – on November 12, 2013, 06:12:20 pmThe fact that he's Prime Minister reflects terribly poorly on the Labor Party The people don't vote for the Prime Minister. The fact he is PM reflects purely on those who voted for him as their party leader. I'd gladly accept Mal as PM but Abbott is a complete tool. Quote Selected
Re: Abbott must go, arise Sir Malcolm! Reply #19 – November 12, 2013, 07:49:17 pm I thought the changes put forward to the constitution and the model selected were good ones. I voted yes to the referendum question (no to John Howard's mateship rubbish) but I think the No vote reflected that Australians, as a whole, didn't know what they really wanted or even what they were saying yes to.As for Turnbull, he had his shot and did worse than Abbott, bit rich to now say he'd be a better PM when he was a flat out failure as opposition leader. Quote Selected
Re: Abbott must go, arise Sir Malcolm! Reply #20 – November 12, 2013, 08:07:26 pm That good for nothing Gillard is out and that is all that counts. The other tools left will screw things up for us , but at a slower rate. Abbott getting in just shows how poor a job the Labor party has done of gaining the peoples confidence. Gillard and Rudd clown show over the past few years have cost them big time. Quote Selected
Re: Abbott must go, arise Sir Malcolm! Reply #21 – November 12, 2013, 08:16:15 pm Thought he was doing a good job. Quote Selected
Re: Abbott must go, arise Sir Malcolm! Reply #22 – November 12, 2013, 08:38:15 pm Quote from: Mantis – on November 12, 2013, 08:07:26 pmThat good for nothing Gillard is out and that is all that counts. The other tools left will screw things up for us , but at a slower rate. Abbott getting in just shows how poor a job the Labor party has done of gaining the peoples confidence. Gillard and Rudd clown show over the past few years have cost them big time.Considering the Murdoch press got Abbott into power with the never ending negative spin cycle, Gillard pushed through an enormous amount of legislation in the face of a lot of embarrassing nay saying by the then opposition. Wonder how clever Scott Morrisson thinks he is now...what a Turkey. Was bloody sad to have my mother in Dublin asking me who the guy with the big ears is in our government....he looked like a fool she said. I said, why yes Mum, he most certainly is that.We all have and are entitled to have our own views on whether Labor did as badly as the pro Abbott press want you to believe. The truth is no doubt somewhere in the middle.As for questioning Turnbull's ability as potential leader if Abbott continues down this path...do not forget that he only lost the leadership by a single vote because of nasty backstabbing climate sceptics like Minchin screwing him over..When Turnbull was subsequently defeated for the Liberal Party leadership by Tony Abbott, Turnbull stated on ABC Radio: "As Tony [Abbott] observed on one occasion, 'climate change is crap', or if you consider his mentor, Senator Minchin, the world is not warming, it's cooling and the climate change issue is part of a vast left-wing conspiracy to deindustrialise the world". This is also from the guy who questioned the addictive nature of Nicotine and health dangers of passive smoking. He would have made an excellent Republican in the GOP. Feckin drop kick. How things could have looked different if Turnbull was still leader. Does the man have an ego? Sure does. Is it of real relevance, not at all. He is extremely intelligent, self made, a moderate who looks to both sides of the debate. Never mind the fact that he looks and acts like a Statesman.It is hard to do the right thing and respect the office of the Prime Minister, no matter who is sitting in the seat. But it's the right thing to do. Quote Selected
Re: Abbott must go, arise Sir Malcolm! Reply #23 – November 12, 2013, 09:27:51 pm Woody, I hear what your saying and it is hard to argue with you. Perception among the community cost those in power, and even the best candidate will have their power stripped back, once the entire party doesn't appear to be on the same page. I would never want the job myself, but I feel we have been fooled too many times by too many leaders. Don't pee on my feet and tell me it is raining. This is my experience from what I hear them say, and then actually do. Give me a leader that can truly bridge the gap between to lower class earners and average working class families, comparing to the over fat cats (rich class) and I will listen with open ears. Not a carbon tax that appears to be helping us while our utility costs run through the roof. Real taxing changes that help us living from one day to the next. Those that lodge tax returns to get a cheque of $200 in an entire years work. Comparing to those who get tax returns that would be enough to buy a brand new car, house, or power boat just because they can.I'm not saying anything against your post Woody. I just feel Mr little significance here has no way of helping my living standards improve if I don't do something about it myself. The government has never had my confidence. Tony hasn't done a terrible job by what I have seen at the moment, but given time he can easily prove me wrong. Its hard to please the masses, but the people in power don't work for less than $800 per week either. I wonder how long they would feed a family on this amount of money. Without any of their current benefits. Quote Selected
Re: Abbott must go, arise Sir Malcolm! Reply #24 – November 12, 2013, 10:20:37 pm Quote from: Mantis – on November 12, 2013, 08:07:26 pmThat good for nothing Gillard is out and that is all that counts. The other tools left will screw things up for us , but at a slower rate. Abbott getting in just shows how poor a job the Labor party has done of gaining the peoples confidence. Gillard and Rudd clown show over the past few years have cost them big time.Wo, Green Stick, dear buddy. Those who've met Julia say just one thing... how come she doesn't come across on the media as she does in person?The Labor Party shambles will likely keep the conservatives in for a good while. Shorten is a back room boy... and unaccostomed to being an accountable leader. Listening to him is like listening to some soft, insignificant melody.The Labor Party will keep Abbott in the top job. Quote Selected
Re: Abbott must go, arise Sir Malcolm! Reply #25 – November 12, 2013, 10:48:55 pm Quote from: Goat – on November 12, 2013, 07:25:24 pmQuote from: Lods – on November 12, 2013, 06:12:20 pmThe fact that he's Prime Minister reflects terribly poorly on the Labor Party The people don't vote for the Prime Minister. The fact he is PM reflects purely on those who voted for him as their party leader. I'd gladly accept Mal as PM but Abbott is a complete tool.NopeIt reflects poorly on the Labor party because even with Abbott as leader they copped a walloping.The reason he's there is because the Australian people decided that the party he leads should govern.You can't say they didn't know who was leading that party.....and despite that (and in a few cases because of that) they picked Tony.Despite what people may think, the electorate isn't stupid....... and the Labor Party weren't able to provide a contest.One of the major factors in that was the leadership of that party....fractured and unable to command respect.Hopefully they can re-assemble and make a contest next time around. Quote Selected
Re: Abbott must go, arise Sir Malcolm! Reply #26 – November 12, 2013, 11:01:13 pm The major factor in Tone's Triumph IMO was that the Labor Party was, and maybe still is, an absolute self-destructive shambles that is obsessed by its own navel and Julia was seen as the evil party in the Rudd assassination. Shorten, who in my view is an opportunistic snake in the grass, has his work cut out to re-establish even a small degree of credibility and, unless the Coalition stuffs up massively, Labor will face years in the wilderness. Having said that I think the Coalition certainly does have, within its range of core talents, the capacity and talent to make a massive stuff-up. Quote Selected
Re: Abbott must go, arise Sir Malcolm! Reply #27 – November 12, 2013, 11:17:57 pm If you are talking major factors in Tone's triumph you can't ignore three years of 100% solid cheerleading from every one of the Murdoch Mouths.Everything Labour said was rubbish and did was a disaster.Everything Tone spouted was fact, and the country could only be saved by putting Tone in the chair ASAP.As the propaganda masters know if you say a lie often and loudly enough it gains traction, especially if brayed in unison by a herd. Labour was far from perfect - but no-where near as bad as they were portrayed.The structural tax deficit is largely due to upper and middle class welfare put in place by Howard. First thing Tone does is to cut super benefits to all but the rich. Murdoch approves. Quote Selected
Re: Abbott must go, arise Sir Malcolm! Reply #28 – November 12, 2013, 11:18:23 pm Quote from: cookie2 – on November 12, 2013, 11:01:13 pmThe major factor in Tone's Triumph IMO was that the Labor Party was, and maybe still is, an absolute self-destructive shambles that is obsessed by its own navel and Julia was seen as the evil party in the Rudd assassination. Shorten, who in my view is an opportunistic snake in the grass, has his work cut out to re-establish even a small degree of credibility and, unless the Coalition stuffs up massively, Labor will face years in the wilderness. Having said that I think the Coalition certainly does have, within its range of core talents, the capacity and talent to make a massive stuff-up.Spot on......,.on each of the point raised. Quote Selected
Re: Abbott must go, arise Sir Malcolm! Reply #29 – November 12, 2013, 11:38:52 pm @YobbarellaIf you say so - I don't personally read the Murdoch press myself. Quote Selected