Carlton Supporters Club

Quote from: dodge – on November 08, 2024, 02:48:40 pm

Two things today:

1) Mt Arapiles climbing ban - the possibility has been in the news for a while, however, one of the affected groups (the rock climbers) is saying that they weren't listened to.  Now it's going to be in place, what is it that is really aiming to be achieved?

2) Nazi Salute.  First Victorian sentenced, receives 1 month accommodation curtesy of the King.  The available sentencing options are (max) 12 mnths gaol, or $24k fine.  Fine would be paid by mates in no time, is gaol going to rehab the offender or harden their stance against authority (especially when they have no remorse).  Don't know the solution, but this doesn't feel right - is there a better way to address the issue? (The offender does get a criminal record, which makes it harder to get employment, but possibly more likely to be employed by same/similar minded people).

Thoughts?

Id rather our wannabe Nazi do some work to pay back the community by doing some months of community work helping cleanup the area, removing graffiti, paint the local synagogue etc etc, sitting in some jail costing the rest of us money and just building up resentment wont change his/her attitude imho and at the end of their jail term we have another antisocial unemployable individual who will be more vulnerable to be recruited by these Neo Nazi type organizations.

Two things today:

1) Mt Arapiles climbing ban - the possibility has been in the news for a while, however, one of the affected groups (the rock climbers) is saying that they weren't listened to.  Now it's going to be in place, what is it that is really aiming to be achieved?

I bet there is not a single bit if indigenous art between the ledge at the top and the scarp at the bottom, other than perhaps a few unfortunate stray fingernail scratches from years long gone by.

It's lunacy, we all know it's lunacy, we all know that after some time passes Mt Arapiles will re-open to climbers for a booking fee from the local Indigenous Authority. It's as bogus as it gets! By then the local cafes, restaurants and hotels would have gone bust and been sold off fire sale style to a local labelled as Aunty or Uncle.

As you probably recall, I was involved in the management of Aboriginal cultural heritage in Victoria for 40 years or so.  I spent a lot of time at Mt Arapiles/Dyurrite and it is one of the richest Aboriginal cultural heritage landscapes in Victoria.  There are many rock art panels, quarries, occupation sites and features associated with songlines.  Quite a few of those places could only be accessed by my rock climbing colleagues.


In 2019, the local Registered Aboriginal Party shared the news of the rediscovery of rock art at Taylor’s Rock (Declaration Crag). with the Rock Climbing Roundtable in advance of a public statement as a positive story of celebration and a demonstration of their faith in the climbing community to do the right thing. The Victorian Climbing Club stated that it was humbled by this gesture of trust towards climbers and was looking forward to help preserving the rock art for future generations.  Unfortunately, the rock art was damaged by climbers within months of the announcement of the discovery.

Quote from: DJC – on November 09, 2024, 12:24:47 pm

Quite a few of those places could only be accessed by my rock climbing colleagues.

I'm sympathetic to the preservation of indigenous art.

But that last sentence needs further investigation, given it suggests ancient free-climbing artisans, or are there suggestions of geology developing on anthropogenic time scales? In Australia!

It simply means that Aboriginal Australians went to considerable lengths to access resources or express themselves artistically at Mt Arapiles/Dyurrite.  No different to the Polynesians of Rapa Nui, the Pueblo peoples of the American southwest, the Scots of the St Kilda Archipelago, the paleolithic artists of what's now Spain and France, and countless other folk from all around the pre-occupational health and safety world.

Quote from: DJC – on November 10, 2024, 11:58:46 am

It simply means that Aboriginal Australians went to considerable lengths to access resources or express themselves artistically at Mt Arapiles/Dyurrite.  No different to the Polynesians of Rapa Nui, the Pueblo peoples of the American southwest, the Scots of the St Kilda Archipelago, the paleolithic artists of what's now Spain and France, and countless other folk from all around the pre-occupational health and safety world.

I'm not sure the perilous or difficult journeys associated with many of the above hold any relevance to a location that allegedly requires modern abseiling just to access!

Cave art I understand, remote / distant locations, even levelling the odd mountain top, all good and well, but not locations that aren't accessible or visible from below or above and haven't been that way for millions of years.