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Re: 2023: A review

Reply #30 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 on
You tend to bomb long when you have a lot of tall timber, smaller forward setups tend to have the ball run into them more.
Lose a tall and we might play bit smarter given the extra talls are a get out of jail kick for players who dont have the vision or lower their eyes enough when taking the ball deep I50.

When you've got two of the best contested marking forwards in the competition, long bombs into the forward 50 must be part of the armoury.  Most of our goals this season came from long bombs inside 50 but that doesn't mean that we abandon other avenues to goal.  Our gameplan relies on our strengths and should only change if our strengths change.  Our ability to hit up players like Owies, Martin and Cottrell in space inside 50 was outstanding and we set a new world record for goals kicked from centre clearances.  We haven't quite nailed the opportunist/crumbing small forward or the forward with blistering pace.

We were ranked first for contested marks in 2023 ... but that includes intercepts and clunking long kicks down the line.
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

Re: 2023: A review

Reply #31 –
Quote from: DJC on
When you've got two of the best contested marking forwards in the competition, long bombs into the forward 50 must be part of the armoury.  Most of our goals this season came from long bombs inside 50 but that doesn't mean that we abandon other avenues to goal.  Our gameplan relies on our strengths and should only change if our strengths change.  Our ability to hit up players like Owies, Martin and Cottrell in space inside 50 was outstanding and we set a new world record for goals kicked from centre clearances.  We haven't quite nailed the opportunist/crumbing small forward or the forward with blistering pace.

We were ranked first for contested marks in 2023 ... but that includes intercepts and clunking long kicks down the line.
No doubt you play with what you have and construct a game plan around it.....Hardwick and the Tigers are evidence of that when they won their premierships as are Collingwood with their non traditional setup. Our talls will always be our weapon down forward but we need more from our smalls when that isnt working.

Re: 2023: A review

Reply #32 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 on
No doubt you play with what you have and construct a game plan around it.....Hardwick and the Tigers are evidence of that when they won their premierships as are Collingwood with their non traditional setup. Our talls will always be our weapon down forward but we need more form our smalls when that isnt working.
Another buzz word these days is connection or connectivity and often its implied that this refers to connection between lines (ie Def - Mids - Fwds). I often see a lack of connectivity between our fwds (ie talls - smalls). I feel lie they need to work on their structures and patterns as sometimes it looks bit haphazard. Thats what I reckon for what its worth.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: 2023: A review

Reply #33 –
my point is how many long bombs go into our F50 only to be marked by opposition .You know why this happens because every one knows how we play. eg 2 v 1 and we still kick to charlie . Going forward in 24 need to lower eyes find best option i hope

Re: 2023: A review

Reply #34 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton on
Another buzz word these days is connection or connectivity and often its implied that this refers to connection between lines (ie Def - Mids - Fwds). I often see a lack of connectivity between our fwds (ie talls - smalls). I feel lie they need to work on their structures and patterns as sometimes it looks bit haphazard. Thats what I reckon for what its worth.

And then you see the slo-mo replay and the likes of Owies and Martin are setting blocks for Charlie or Harry.

There's no doubt that we waste some of our forward 50 entries but a lot of our forward 50 work in the second half of the season was superb.  No other team won eleven of their last thirteen games!

Our mid season slump makes it hard to compare team rankings but, for what it's worth, we were seventh for Inside 50s.  Brisbane, Melbourne and GWS had more and Collingwood had around one less per game.  However, Collingwood managed around 1.5 goals more per game with a cobbled together forward line at the end.  Collingwood regularly bomb the ball into their forward 50 and have confidence that if Cox, McStay, Cameron, Mihocek, Elliott, DeGoey, Johnson or Hill don't clunk it, a crumber will do the job. Brisbane does much the same. We don't quite have the marking power and our medium and small forwards aren't as dangerous, but that's a work in progress.

One area where we did improve was the depth of the of our forward 50 long bombs.  Earlier in the season, many of our long kicks inside 50 were landing around 40m out. An intercept mark or spoil usually resulted in a rebound that we found hard to defend.  Later in the season, our long kicks inside 50 were landing 10-20m from goal and that made it easier for crumbers to get a shot at goal, or for our forwards to lock the ball in or force an outlet kick to a contest.

There's certainly work to do but kicking long bombs to Harry, Charlie and the King has to be one of our main avenues to goal. Kicking long bombs to Acres works quite well too  :)
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

Re: 2023: A review

Reply #35 –
The issue isn't where it's going its how it's put there.  Charlie often has to sit under it, ditto Harry.  We need to drop it a little shorter and bring them up to the ball.  Rather than sit it on their head.  Gives them no chance. 
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: 2023: A review

Reply #36 –
Quote from: Thryleon on
The issue isn't where it's going its how it's put there.  Charlie often has to sit under it, ditto Harry.  We need to drop it a little shorter and bring them up to the ball.  Rather than sit it on their head.  Gives them no chance.

This is something i've been critical of for a while.

We always bomb it ON people, rather than just in front of them.
If we can't get a run and jump at it, then it helps the opposition.

Re: 2023: A review

Reply #37 –
No problem kicking it long quickly to one on one and back in our guns to win the contest.
The problem is kicking it long to smalls when they are outnumbered in a zone.

Re: 2023: A review

Reply #38 –
Martin was excellent generally speaking after his return, but can't stay on the park long enough. Motlop is promising, but still inconsistent, had two disappointing finals matches. McGovern can be an excellent option to move down forward still.
Some more consistent players around the two talls, with more speed around there, we'll be a real contender next year or the year after, whenever it occurs. We were generally fine with ball movement and whatnot earlier in our long winning streak.

Re: 2023: A review

Reply #39 –
Quote from: pinot on
No problem kicking it long quickly to one on one and back in our guns to win the contest.
The problem is kicking it long to smalls when they are outnumbered in a zone.
Harry's concussion against Sydney might lend weight to my point.  He had 3 players converge on him because of a hospital kick.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: 2023: A review

Reply #40 –
Quote from: Thryleon on
Harry's concussion against Sydney might lend weight to my point.  He had 3 players converge on him because of a hospital kick.

That was a perfectly weighted kick to Harry’s advantage.  He had a metre on his opponent and would have clunked the mark if McCartin hadn’t backed into him.

Harry’s forward momentum and McCartin’s movement backwards and upwards caused the top of his head to smash into Harry’s jaw.

Nine times out of ten Harry clunks that mark and leaves McCartin nursing a bruised back.

McCartin was an extra at the contest, no other players were within two metres.
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

Re: 2023: A review

Reply #41 –
Quote from: DJC on
Nine times out of ten Harry clunks that mark and leaves McCartin nursing a bruised back.

McCartin was an extra at the contest, no other players were within two metres.
Harry is not that aggressive, he is an angry but fair player, and opposition know it's safe to step into his way.

He needs a touch more mongrel, somebody needs to get him sorted out that AFL is not fair, and in contests like that it's either going to be him or one of them that cops a impact especially in finals! Go and watch some footage of Jack Riewoldt or Jeremy Cameron and work out why they get such clean runs, you'll see event after event of them cleaning up opponents that take the space in front of them. They cause opponents to hesitate, and that fraction of a second is enough!

Overall I thought Harry was pretty good in the Prelim, his aerobic capacity stood out, he was able to get separation from the KPDs just too far from goal to be damaging.

If anything we lacked a strategy to make space for Harry and Charlie within range of goal, which is why I assert we missed Owies who I think offers the team a smarter big picture focus.
"Ruck, ruck, ruck, ruck ....... Ruck, ruck, ruck, ruck"

Re: 2023: A review

Reply #42 –
Have a look at Harry's highlights:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpuNLz4DWpk

Not so many balls kicked on his head and a few opponents feel the impact of his 105kg
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

Re: 2023: A review

Reply #43 –
Quote from: DJC on
Have a look at Harry's highlights:

Not so many balls kicked on his head and a few opponents feel the impact of his 105kg
From my perspective it's no accident that the bulk of Harry's highlights come when we do not kick it on his head and he is allowed to lead onto the pill, he is almost unstoppable in that scenario.

It just makes the Prelim situation even more bizarre, we did not need Motlop and Martin flying against Harry and Charlie, instead we needed them to be front and square, or doing some of the very nice work we saw from Durdin, Cunningham or Owies to create little blocks for Charlie and Harry to get some space.

Another thing that stands out with Harry is that equivalently sized defenders can't run with him, Charlie has the defenders done aerobically, Harry is just too quick off the mark.
"Ruck, ruck, ruck, ruck ....... Ruck, ruck, ruck, ruck"

Re: 2023: A review

Reply #44 –
Exactly.

Kids on his head are not highlights........unless its for the opposition.