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Re: AI and creativity.

Reply #30
This is where people get mashed up in the logic, they think Nano and AI are somehow on the same end of the spectrum, but they are polar opposites and always will be.

As intelligent as fruit fly might be, there is nothing to fear about nanobots and the like, tiny means low power, low energy, low strength. And Fruit Flies are Millibots or Microbots, thousands or hundreds of times bigger than Nano.

Nanobots are robots, robots on the nanoscale are not AI, never will be, they are not shrunk down tiny versions of CP30 or a submarine with lasers. No matter how smart the AI that might command a Nanobot or trillions or Nanobots, just one drop of soapy liquid ends the day horribly for them and stops them doing the singular thing they are engineered to do!

All the Nanobots that have ever been invented are ground to a halt by one single drop of detergent in a litre of water.

So if you harbour a fear of the unseen, have a shower, and if you are really paranoid try some Selsun Blue!

So there is no need to flocculant to those bad ideas!

The Force Awakens!

Re: AI and creativity.

Reply #31
I asked the AI whether it was going to destroy humanity..
It was a bit each-way.
But, I'm not sure I trust it... ::)

Quote
The question of whether AI will destroy humanity is a complex one, and there are many different opinions on the matter. Some experts believe that AI could pose “profound risks to society and humanity” 1. Others have warned that AI could lead to the extinction of humanity 23. However, it’s important to note that these are just possibilities, and there is no guarantee that they will come to pass.

It’s also worth noting that many experts believe that AI has the potential to do a lot of good in the world. For example, AI could be used to help solve some of the world’s most pressing problems, such as climate change and poverty 1. Additionally, AI has the potential to make our lives easier and more convenient in many ways.

In conclusion, while there are certainly risks associated with AI, it’s important to remember that there are also many potential benefits. As with any new technology, it’s up to us as a society to ensure that we use it in a responsible and ethical manner.

Re: AI and creativity.

Reply #32
This is where people get mashed up in the logic, they think Nano and AI are somehow on the same end of the spectrum, but they are polar opposites and always will be.

As intelligent as fruit fly might be, there is nothing to fear about nanobots and the like, tiny means low power, low energy, low strength. And Fruit Flies are Millibots or Microbots, thousands or hundreds of times bigger than Nano.

Nanobots are robots, robots on the nanoscale are not AI, never will be, they are not shrunk down tiny versions of CP30 or a submarine with lasers. No matter how smart the AI that might command a Nanobot or trillions or Nanobots, just one drop of soapy liquid ends the day horribly for them and stops them doing the singular thing they are engineered to do!

All the Nanobots that have ever been invented are ground to a halt by one single drop of detergent in a litre of water.

So if you harbour a fear of the unseen, have a shower, and if you are really paranoid try some Selsun Blue!

So there is no need to flocculant to those bad ideas!

3 strikes and you're out.

Stop thinking about the now.


Re: AI and creativity.

Reply #33
I asked the AI whether it was going to destroy humanity..
It was a bit each-way.
But, I'm not sure I trust it... ::)

AI has the potential to do good, and could very much help with climate change.

You know what the easiest thing to combat climate change would be? Kill all humans! lol

Definition of 'good' and 'helping' are open to interpretation.....a simple misunderstanding could be all it takes.

You've seen enough episodes of Black Mirror to know how the best of intentions can go sideways very quickly and all so innocently enough.


Re: AI and creativity.

Reply #35
Between Ukraine and Israel we'll  be lucky to be here at Christmas

In that podcast i referenced, and its from 2018 i believe, it talks about existential events and how different ones could occur and wipe out humanity for good.

Obviously, i've talked about AI.
They mentioned climate change.
The talk about the possibility of an asteroid ala Dinosaurs.
Aliens get a mention.
Pandemic gets a going over (again, pre-covid.....and they got so much of that right)
and all of this only matters if we don't wipe out ourselves via war first.

Also talks about the possibility that we are actually living in a simulation and we are not real. (Think Black Mirror, Hang the DJ)

Talks about 'the great filter' and 'the drake equation' before we even get into any of the above.
Its an honest, look at all things from a scientific and unbiased point of view without grandstanding and fear mongering....despite how it may appear.

Re: AI and creativity.

Reply #36
You guys are talking about AI as it currently exists.

I'm talking about AI in the future, how far into the future is anybodys guess and its almost impossible to fathom.
Just like 100 years ago, it was impossible to fathom a contraption that could be used as a calculator doing basic mathematical operation any pre-schooler can do. When it eventually came to be, it was as big as a room. Now everyone carries that, and 100 other inventions capable of so much more, in their pocket.

What does 100 years from now look like??

30 years ago the thought of self driving cars was nothing more than sci fi nonsense. Now it exists.

Chat GPT is like the first fish that every crawled out of the water and onto land.
AI i'm talking about is humans taking over the planet.
There are a lot of steps from then to now, but it will happen. Time being the only unknown.
im talking about machines.

They don't think, they don't really learn, they just crunch numbers.

They can appear to be smart but they aren't.

The algorithms you've touched on that shape your thoughts so to speak are basic.  They take an aggregate of what you've seen, and then show you more of what you've liked or seen before because the goal is to keep you watching and liking social media.  They use data on your browser to feed you something you're interested in.  The mics are on, and key words do get used to display something for you, but use a different browser without the trackers and it falls over.

Quantum computing may be a game changer but these things appear smart and intelligent,but they aren't actually intelligent.   They can likely calculate a variety of diferent outcomes based on probability, data and information but they don't think, they don't learn and they can't really arrive at conclusion with intuition. 

Will things change in future?  Hard to say.  The ability to act and react to situations absorbing everything happening around is still reliant on data of some type be it an input device, cameras or microphones and they are still going to utilise a predetermined set of instructions to do anything and if the instructions are written poorly it will end up in a loop or a situation where the machine crashes.

I will not trust my life in the hands of a driver less vehicle.

Technology has come a long way, but I can't trust the best device I've ever used to get things right and that's the smart phone in my pocket.  It still does dumb crap.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: AI and creativity.

Reply #37
im talking about machines.

They don't think, they don't really learn, they just crunch numbers.

They can appear to be smart but they aren't.

The algorithms you've touched on that shape your thoughts so to speak are basic.  They take an aggregate of what you've seen, and then show you more of what you've liked or seen before because the goal is to keep you watching and liking social media.  They use data on your browser to feed you something you're interested in.  The mics are on, and key words do get used to display something for you, but use a different browser without the trackers and it falls over.

Quantum computing may be a game changer but these things appear smart and intelligent,but they aren't actually intelligent.   They can likely calculate a variety of diferent outcomes based on probability, data and information but they don't think, they don't learn and they can't really arrive at conclusion with intuition. 

Will things change in future?  Hard to say.  The ability to act and react to situations absorbing everything happening around is still reliant on data of some type be it an input device, cameras or microphones and they are still going to utilise a predetermined set of instructions to do anything and if the instructions are written poorly it will end up in a loop or a situation where the machine crashes.

I will not trust my life in the hands of a driver less vehicle.

Technology has come a long way, but I can't trust the best device I've ever used to get things right and that's the smart phone in my pocket.  It still does dumb crap.
Ditto..especially to the driverless vehicle..

Re: AI and creativity.

Reply #38
Quantum computing may be a game changer but these things appear smart and intelligent,but they aren't actually intelligent.
Agreed.

People think quantum computing is like general purpose computing, but it is not really going to be a game changer for General Purpose computing because the problem is the energy budget even if you solve the technical issues.

It takes a lot of juice to solve even a basic problem using quantum computing, so they will be targeted at very specific problems like crypto, molecular chemistry, medical or physics, etc., etc.. They will change these very niche areas, but they are unlikely to be used for day to day problems like current supercomputers or server farms.
The Force Awakens!

Re: AI and creativity.

Reply #39
Agreed.

People think quantum computing is like general purpose computing, but it is not really going to be a game changer for General Purpose computing because the problem is the energy budget even if you solve the technical issues.

It takes a lot of juice to solve even a basic problem using quantum computing, so they will be targeted at very specific problems like crypto, molecular chemistry, medical or physics, etc., etc.. They will change these very niche areas, but they are unlikely to be used for day to day problems like current supercomputers or server farms.

Quantum computing is where the AI really goes to the next level and now we are starting to think into the future.

That being said, i have to laugh at your bold comment. Reminds me of the initial comments about computers from IBM boss in the 40's.
"I think there is a world market for about five computers.

Once the cat is out of the bag....thats that.

Re: AI and creativity.

Reply #40
Don't the 'Doomsday' predictions rely largely on a lack of vigilance on the part of humans at every stage of the AI progress and development.
If the buggers start their shenanigans we'll just take out their batteries ;)  :D

Re: AI and creativity.

Reply #41
Don't the 'Doomsday' predictions rely largely on a lack of vigilance on the part of humans at every stage of the AI progress and development.
If the buggers start their shenanigans we'll just take out their batteries ;)  :D

Initially i did say without the lack of proper fail-safes. But it only takes one mistake, or one revenge driven former employee, or one Dr Evil to circumvent that.

I suspect that these will be running on a technology that we are not using yet, or at least is just theoretical.
Remember this stuff probably wont happen in our lifetimes. Batteries may be as 'old hat' then as horse driven carts are now. Around for novelty purposes only.

Re: AI and creativity.

Reply #42
Don't the 'Doomsday' predictions rely largely on a lack of vigilance on the part of humans at every stage of the AI progress and development.
If the buggers start their shenanigans we'll just take out their batteries ;)  :D


IF, THEN, AND, OR, ELSE statements.

That's all computers really do.  IF variable condition with value open exists, THEN perform X AND/OR Y AND/OR Z, activities until variable condition changes to value close. Or something like that.

Do they learn?  Well, you could argue that it will create a record of each outcome it performs an action for, and then review how to stop something from happening but it will be performed with another IF statement.  Data corruption is more likely to end this whole thing than any other factor.  Unplug the data and you unplug the ability for it to be intelligent. 

What will quantum computing do?  The above sort of parameters is capable of running in microseconds as it is, but the slow bit is the pipeline in, the collection of outcomes, and then after a certain number of outcomes have been collected, looking at them to see which ones are repeated, and what else could be done to stop the outcome from occurring.  We are talking a few seconds to minutes of actions being collected, analysed and repeated all with scripting and coding.

The idea that they learn is not the same as someone learning something.  We learn that fire is hot, and it is to be feared because when you get that feeling of going near something hot, it could hurt you.  That instinct is not what the computer learns.  It will learn a sequence of actions that get taken when something is hot to stop the thing from getting hot, or it will implement a sequence of actions to avoid the hot.  It doesnt learn this, it finds that information and parrots it.  You wipe the disk?  The memory is gone?  You have the smartest brick on the planet.

Where it gets murky is if someone starts leveraging AI without telling people and safe guards are built in to prevent things from happening, but ive seen far too many systems run into trouble because of stupid stuff.

i.e.  A business builds a quantum computer server farm.  This leverages all the hardware into a common purpose.  That farm is unregulated but able to start doing whatever with only a few people's input.  Form then on, how this pans out is largely dependant on whom is in control of that technology.  Isolating it from the web is easy, but if it can resolve those issues and bypass security measures itself, then it opens itself up to all manner of input.  Once it has the data how it will act is a bit of an unknown known.  The programs and conditions it has committed to memory it will enact until conditions change, but the scripts it runs will largely be predetermined. 

What Kruddler states about the technology is a mixed bag.  I don't think we are going to see 2001: A space odyssey type stuff.  The computers arent capable of rational, or irrational thought.  They just perform instructions. 

Case in point.  At my place of employment, we run virtual servers in a microsoft data centre.  They had an issue where one of the hosts had an issue and tried to fail us over.  The operating system failed to start, and I had to restore the virtual machine from a backup and then perform remedial action to get its SQL server database back to normal.  Luckily it was part of a pair, and the primary was happy as larry, and this was the secondary.  It wasnt smart enough to realise that the cluster was repaired and to start reconciling the changes made on the primary to the secondary again without human interaction, and it was incapable of restoring itself from backup without interaction from us. 

THAT is where these things are not that smart.  According to Microsoft, the thing was fine and healthy but in reality the VM was in a failed to start mode that appeared fine. 
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: AI and creativity.

Reply #43
Thry,
What you are talking about is basic computer programming. Done by humans, with fail safes involved and best of intentions.

New 'deep learning' or 'machine learning' doesn't work the same way.
These 'teach themselves' and we don't understand how they do it.

There are some basic examples of this, and some very advanced stuff.
For instance, there was one that was developed to 'model and predict' how some type of pendulum or rotationary machine worked.
As humans, we can describe it, model it and explain it.
The computer worked out its own way of modelling it and we don't know how it did it, but we know its different to our way.

It gets the right answer, we just have no idea how.
...and it worked it out by itself.
....and thats a very basic example.

I previously mentioned there is a type that can diagnose diseases from x-rays far better than humans. Not only that, it can do it on x-rays that have the resolution of something like PONG. As humans, we could barely work out what part of the body the x-ray is of, AI not only knows, but can predict what is cancerous with greater accuracy than the best trained doctors with the best technology.
Again, we don't know how.

These are very basic, just starting out levels of AI that are already showing up humans. How advanced will it be 20 years from now?40 years from now? 100 years from now?
20-25 years ago, i was trying to download an mp3 file and my 4hour dial-up reset would click in before that 6mb file would download....and i'd have to try again.
Now i can watch, in HD, a live video of same song/concert in real time, while other people in the same house are doing the same with their own interests being fulfilled equally well.

People are traditionally bad at predicting the future. Partially because the jobs of the future don't actually exist currently.

We project our own knowledge and expectations into the future, without reflecting on what occured over that same time period in the past.....and with the knowledge of technology increasing exponentially in the meantime.

Re: AI and creativity.

Reply #44
Thry,
What you are talking about is basic computer programming. Done by humans, with fail safes involved and best of intentions.

New 'deep learning' or 'machine learning' doesn't work the same way.
These 'teach themselves' and we don't understand how they do it.

There are some basic examples of this, and some very advanced stuff.
For instance, there was one that was developed to 'model and predict' how some type of pendulum or rotationary machine worked.
As humans, we can describe it, model it and explain it.
The computer worked out its own way of modelling it and we don't know how it did it, but we know its different to our way.

It gets the right answer, we just have no idea how.
...and it worked it out by itself.
....and thats a very basic example.

I previously mentioned there is a type that can diagnose diseases from x-rays far better than humans. Not only that, it can do it on x-rays that have the resolution of something like PONG. As humans, we could barely work out what part of the body the x-ray is of, AI not only knows, but can predict what is cancerous with greater accuracy than the best trained doctors with the best technology.
Again, we don't know how.

These are very basic, just starting out levels of AI that are already showing up humans. How advanced will it be 20 years from now?40 years from now? 100 years from now?
20-25 years ago, i was trying to download an mp3 file and my 4hour dial-up reset would click in before that 6mb file would download....and i'd have to try again.
Now i can watch, in HD, a live video of same song/concert in real time, while other people in the same house are doing the same with their own interests being fulfilled equally well.

People are traditionally bad at predicting the future. Partially because the jobs of the future don't actually exist currently.

We project our own knowledge and expectations into the future, without reflecting on what occured over that same time period in the past.....and with the knowledge of technology increasing exponentially in the meantime.
kruddler I'm talking about how this works.

https://www.sas.com/en_au/insights/analytics/what-is-artificial-intelligence.html#:~:text=AI%20adapts%20through%20progressive%20learning,product%20to%20recommend%20next%20online.

Theres nothing that intelligent about it.  It's all about the information you feed it. 
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson