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Re: General Discussions

Reply #1785
It's like most things technological. You can use it for good genuine purposes...or you can use it for bad deeds and evil.
The USA has cornered itself, because it can't act on guns and knives. Yet it acts on a platform!

How can FB be guilty, while Winchester is innocent?
The Force Awakens!

Re: General Discussions

Reply #1786
I’m not sure that you can blame the courts EB; they have to apply the laws passed by parliaments and, in the High Court’s case, abide by a constitution that was written in the 19th century.

Indefinite detention was always going to found to be unlawful and I can’t believe that the previous government and the incoming government didn’t have a fallback plan.

I know that many asylum seekers destroy their documentation or have fake documentation and it can be difficult to determine whether or not someone is a model citizen or a serial killer.  However, once an asylum seeker’s past criminal record is discovered, why aren’t they just shipped back to where they came from?  I know that we won’t send people back to a death sentence but most of these coves have served their sentences and aren’t in line for execution.

I’m not sure what the answer is for people who will be executed if returned home …. but I’m not paid the big bucks to resolve such matters.

Bail is fraught.  There are benefits from not incarcerating people who haven’t been found guilty but community safety must come first.  If there’s a chance that folk charged with a crime are likely to offend then bail shouldn’t be an option.

Remember Dan Andrews criticising VCAT for being the ultimate planning authority but never having to face the electorate?  I think the same argument is applied to the courts.  If the electorate is unhappy with sentencing, bail, or other decisions, they will take it out on the government.  Governments therefore try to be overly prescriptive with mandatory sentencing, bail, etc or try to use ministerial powers for matters that the various constitutions don’t permit.

It’s a flawed and dated system but I’m not sure there’s a better one.  If there was, there’s Buckley’s chance of amending the Australian constitution.

Edit: I was commenting on EB’s post but it’s gone.  You should get the gist 🙂
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

Re: General Discussions

Reply #1787
I’m not sure that you can blame the courts EB; they have to apply the laws passed by parliaments and, in the High Court’s case, abide by a constitution that was written in the 19th century.

Indefinite detention was always going to found to be unlawful and I can’t believe that the previous government and the incoming government didn’t have a fallback plan.

I know that many asylum seekers destroy their documentation or have fake documentation and it can be difficult to determine whether or not someone is a model citizen or a serial killer.  However, once an asylum seeker’s past criminal record is discovered, why aren’t they just shipped back to where they came from?  I know that we won’t send people back to a death sentence but most of these coves have served their sentences and aren’t in line for execution.

I’m not sure what the answer is for people who will be executed if returned home …. but I’m not paid the big bucks to resolve such matters.

Bail is fraught.  There are benefits from not incarcerating people who haven’t been found guilty but community safety must come first.  If there’s a chance that folk charged with a crime are likely to offend then bail shouldn’t be an option.

Remember Dan Andrews criticising VCAT for being the ultimate planning authority but never having to face the electorate?  I think the same argument is applied to the courts.  If the electorate is unhappy with sentencing, bail, or other decisions, they will take it out on the government.  Governments therefore try to be overly prescriptive with mandatory sentencing, bail, etc or try to use ministerial powers for matters that the various constitutions don’t permit.

It’s a flawed and dated system but I’m not sure there’s a better one.  If there was, there’s Buckley’s chance of amending the Australian constitution.

Edit: I was commenting on EB’s post but it’s gone.  You should get the gist 🙂
Sorry about that deleted post DJ but one of my reference links was missing/taken down so I deleted my post with the intention
of rewriting and looking for a new link with the following the best I could find but forgot about it....MrsE wanted me to watch MAFS...dont judge me🤐.
Anyway this link relates to my venting about the courts and Government in Aus and how stupid in my opinion releasing known asylum seeking criminals into the community is.
https://www.news.com.au/national/courts-law/full-list-of-murderers-and-sex-offenders-let-loose-after-high-court-ruling/news-story/e39786ce47ff353f31c59a862be12d8a
 My ire was also raised after the murder of a local doctor in my area by a kid/kids who were out on bail for serious crimes and should have remained locked up imo, but the courts seem so weak and wanting to pander to societies forgiving and rehabilitation approach to dealing with dangerous criminals they let these people out on bail far to freely imho.

Re: General Discussions

Reply #1788
I read the other day that in the USA the mother and father of a fifteen-year-old have each been charged with involuntary manslaughter. Their son was responsible for the deaths by shooting of a number of children at a school.

Here in Australia, whenever youths offend, blame for their offending is always laid at the feet of the government of the day and/or the courts.  We get the obligatory hand-wringing, calls for more money to be spent, and for the age to be raised to fourteen before a person can be charged with an offence.

The Victorian Chief Commissioner of Police said yesterday that there is a hardcore of approximately 220 youth offenders known to police who account for the majority of serious youth crimes in this state.

Surely it is about time that the parents of repeat offenders should be held accountable, at least in part, for the actions of their children.

I am tired of society expecting governments of the day and the courts  to clear up the mess, come up with solutions, and yet parents are absolved of any responsibility for the behaviour of their children


Re: General Discussions

Reply #1789
In fact, the mother, who, together with her husband, bought the firearm, has been found guilty of four counts of involuntary manslaughter.  The husband is yet to be tried.

Apart from buying the firearm used in the massacre, the shooter's parents refused to believe their son's claims of mental health issues and failed to get him assessed or treated.  They also walked out of a meeting at the school on the morning of the shooting and declined to take their disturbed son home.

However, I recall discussing parents' responsibilities with my late brother who was a barrister.  He said that there is a long established principle in English law that parents can't be held responsible for the actions of their children.  In the American case, the mother was found guilty because her actions directly contributed to deaths.
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

 

Re: General Discussions

Reply #1790
The question of parental responsibility is an interesting one. I worked for over forty years with state wards and young offenders, A question I was often asked when I told people where I worked was “How much of the offending is the parents fault”.

I spent six years working in an assessment centre for State wards. It’s where the kids came when they were removed from their family situation. It would probably be regarded as a post ‘stolen generation’ time, but indigenous children were over-represented, much as they are in the juvenile justice system. There were also many non-indigenous kids and a more common theme for the intervention into their home life was probably ‘poverty’.

With both young offenders and children in need of protection (I’ll call them ‘Wards’ because that was the terminology of the time) there would be a case management plan and regular ‘case conferences’ that involved meetings of Centre admin staff, Psychologists, District officers, Teachers, House parents, Youth workers….and parents.
Rather than confident, well dressed, articulate and educated folks, the parents often presented as defensive, confused, and inadequate (I can’t control him/her)… and poor. Rarely was it both parents attending , and more often than not…just Mum.

So speaking (with a fair bit of generalisation, but experience)…
For young offenders (especially the hard-core group)…
What causes the offending behaviour.?
What aspects play into it?

Lack of parental control (certainly plays a part)
Peer Pressure. (plays a big part)
Boredom
Mental health issues
Educational instability (I had many kids at 14-15 who couldn’t read)
The thrill of it (Why steal a car and abandon it an hour later if not just for a bit of fun? )

So how much blame can be assigned to parents for the behaviour of hard core young offenders?
Parents sometimes aren’t even in the picture (the child is already under state protection, fostered)
Kids often come from single parent families.
The parents of young offenders have often had their own personal experience of incarceration.
Domestic violence and alcoholism are features of home life.
Families were often dependent on welfare and/or are struggling financially.
Throw in the fact that families were often large, and parents had responsibilities for younger children.

The point of all this is that we can’t judge the parents of young offenders by our own personal levels of responsibility in terms of education, wealth, parental skills and upbringing. For most of us it’s chalk and cheese. We are lucky enough to never have had to experience that background.
It’s a cycle of crime and the hard -core young offender is often the product of the influence of older offenders in terms of parents, siblings, other relatives and peers.
Financial and /or custodial penalties for the parents of young offenders would more than likely add to the burden.
While I understand the argument for some action against a parent of a hard core young offender, there wouldn’t be many in a position to cope with a penalty.

Re: General Discussions

Reply #1791
Educational instability (I had many kids at 14-15 who couldn’t read)
Yet I wonder how many effortlessly play a complex game like GtA or CoD that depends on interactive messaging to win?

I'm quite confused about the current debate, it seems to be running a middle ground between victim blaming parents to child abuse. I feel there needs to be a whole new level of ward for processing these kids, they sit outside the paradigm.

But I do feel some are definitely victims of manipulation, we see this more and more with car thefts and break ins. It's imperative we get to the generals behind theses crimes, the people who hide behind our societies willingness to give children who may be as young as 11 or 12 a second chance. In my opinion soliciting children into crime isn't punished harshly enough, the penalties should be heavier than if you do the crime yourself.
The Force Awakens!

Re: General Discussions

Reply #1792
You wonder how kids are influenced, it's always the media blaming "parents", "crooks" or "peers", sure I get that it can be.

But then you start to read the shizen from Ten, News Corp and Wilkinson going on behind the scenes surrounding the Lehrmann trial, and you can't help but wonder.

We've seen this happening for some time, we see it with Trump, we see it with Thorpe, we see it with Bolt, and now it's got to the point that even in court the mainstream media isn't even adverse to gather ratings by exposing it's own lies. This isn't the bottom of the barrel, this barrel as no bottom!

These professional celebrity types aren't right in the head, media and social media has turning them rotten, morally and mentally, and there is not a single individual who can claim the high ground.

It's bizarre that they are just bickering over dollars, they should be charged!
The Force Awakens!

Re: General Discussions

Reply #1793
Anyone else effected adversely by those ferocious winds yesterday! We were lucky (in West Gippsland) to not lose power... though I was waiting for the lights to go out! However, internet is not much better than dial-up at present!

 Thought of you, David (DJC) when reports of 6 power towers being blown over in the Greater Geelong region tripped Loy Yang A!

As a humourous aside, I was outside with our dog (Doberman) when the wind and thunder hit hard... her hackles went up as she barked at the skies but when the rain came she ducked for cover!
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: General Discussions

Reply #1794
Lights flickered for me, but power stayed on.
Only thing that happened was a little white plastic chair was blown over.

Some co-workers were not so lucky.
3 of them have lost power in their houses.

One doesn't have power but is setup to cope without it.

One had to go buy a generator last night, but is otherwise ok.

Another one is pretty screwed.
He has no hot water because its electric.
He has no water at all because his property has water pumps.....which are electric.
He is also has a septic tank which has backed up because pumps stopped working because its electric.
On top of that, he couldn't get to his car as it was locked in the garage, and the only access from the outside was through the remote. Had to climb up on his roof, take roof tiles off just to release the garage door, just so he could get his car out.
Poor bugger.

I was out and about yesterday and saw a plaster deliver truck lose about 4 sheets off the back of it while they were unloading, when flying down the street and into some cars. Nobody was hurt.

Pretty wild for a while there.

Re: General Discussions

Reply #1795
Nothing bad for us this time, friends are being told they'll be without power for 3 or 4 days.

Back in the 2020 storms we lost power for 14 days, it's not fun, but we had gas and our water pressure was never lost. I can't imagine being a suburb where you can't flush the bog!

Some councils have started banning gas, being completely dependant on one source of energy is poor risk management. You should have read some of the socials for our area today, all those EV adopters without something to plug into. One woman complained the kids had drained the last of the car battery recharging their phones, she couldn't even get out of the driveway, not sure if that's true or even possible but it was a good laugh! :o
The Force Awakens!

Re: General Discussions

Reply #1796


Some councils have started banning gas, being completely dependant on one source of energy is poor risk management. You should have read some of the socials for our area today, all those EV adopters without something to plug into. One woman complained the kids had drained the last of the car battery recharging their phones, she couldn't even get out of the driveway, not sure if that's true or even possible but it was a good laugh! :o

Stick to spreading credible stories to express your dislike of renewables/ev.
I read on socials that someone brought the Exxon Valdez and said theyd never need to buy fuel again !
Dunno if its possible or where theyd park it but it was funny as all hell !
:/
Let’s go BIG !

Re: General Discussions

Reply #1797
However, I recall discussing parents' responsibilities with my late brother who was a barrister.  He said that there is a long established principle in English law that parents can't be held responsible for the actions of their children. In the American case, the mother was found guilty because her actions directly contributed to deaths.
And here lies the crux of the problem in my opinion, The responsibilities of adults, and the consequences of their actions,  just get kicked down the road. And who suffers? The families of the victim. If you locked up the parents/guardians along with child, people would start taking responsibility. I need to a licence to drive a car but not to raise/care for a child. These days, it should be the other way around I reckon.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: General Discussions

Reply #1798
And here lies the crux of the problem in my opinion, The responsibilities of adults, and the consequences of their actions,  just get kicked down the road. And who suffers? The families of the victim. If you locked up the parents/guardians along with child, people would start taking responsibility. I need to a licence to drive a car but not to raise/care for a child. These days, it should be the other way around I reckon.

But the problem is that the parents and guardians of the kids committing many of these offences are already locked up, have been, or are about to be.
If every one of these parents was a well off, middle class person with no drug, alcohol or domestic violence issues pervading their lives there might be some chance of imposing a parental responibility that impacted, but that's not the case for the families of most repeat young offenders.

Re: General Discussions

Reply #1799
But the problem is that the parents and guardians of the kids committing many of these offences are already locked up, have been, or are about to be.
If every one of these parents was a well off, middle class person with no drug, alcohol or domestic violence issues pervading their lives there might be some chance of imposing a parental responibility that impacted, but that's not the case for the families of most repeat young offenders.

I dont doubt that there are many examples of the former, Ill also bet my left one that there are parents int he latter category that you mentioned who are either oblivious to what their kids are up to or just dont give a crap. Haul those ones in and make them accountable. As for wards of the state, surely the state is responsible? Nuffs Enuff.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time