Carlton Supporters Club

IMHO a Warnock trade would have been silly.

No matter how good Hammer could have been, he would still be a barely there proposition as opposed to the other two.  Warnock and Kreuzer if they are competitive or winning their ruck duals, it will go a long way to winning matches.

I dont think that was ever true of Hammer.  The trouble being is that even when he won the ruck dual, it wouldnt necessarily be to our advantage like the other two.

Bit of an unfair call on hammer. If the other two were left to struggle as go to marking targets (and Hammer is not a forward) they'd probably have a line their them already. His last decent run in the ruck before being injured he was pretty damn good.

@IOT, Ill agree to disagree with you. 

Looking solely at his ruck work, he was at best competitive.

Competitive doesnt win you premierships.

Im tired of making excuses for players that will be sometimes players. I was thinking about this on the way to work this morning, and If I were in charge at the Blues, I would put Gibbs negotiations on hold until the end of the season if he knocks back an initial contract offer which is deemed to be fair.  It could be a parting of ways that suits both of us as the acquistion and then annual wait for Gibbs to come of age represents exactly why we have taken so long to emerge from mediocrity.  We are too afraid to make the hard calls.  Moving Hammer on was the first of many that we are required to make.

@IOT, Ill agree to disagree with you. 

Looking solely at his ruck work, he was at best competitive.

Competitive doesnt win you premierships.

Im tired of making excuses for players that will be sometimes players.  I was thinking about this on the way to work this morning, and If I were in charge at the Blues, I would put Gibbs negotiations on hold until the end of the season if he knocks back an initial contract offer which is deemed to be fair.  It could be a parting of ways that suits both of us as the acquistion and then annual wait for Gibbs to come of age represents exactly why we have taken so long to emerge from mediocrity.  We are too afraid to make the hard calls.  Moving Hammer on was the first of many that we are required to make.

This all occurred listening to Troy Chaplin on SEN this morning.  He was another just going through the motions as a good ordinary AFL footballer and then he moved to Richmond.  He had no pressing need to move, but hearing him talk, the move has done him the world of good.  Not to mention the opening at Port has allowed others to come in and play his role who might be a bit hungrier and this has also lifted Port.  Im not in favour of this occurring En Masse, but in certain situations it might be time.  Make an offer, if he asks for time, give him time, and weigh in again later.  He is a restricted free agent.  If we decide to match any offers, he isnt going anywhere.  No point bidding up his price unless absolutely required.

Quote from: Thryleon on February 18, 2014, 05:27:36 pm

@IOT, Ill agree to disagree with you. 

Looking solely at his ruck work, he was at best competitive.

Competitive doesnt win you premierships.

Im tired of making excuses for players that will be sometimes players.  I was thinking about this on the way to work this morning, and If I were in charge at the Blues, I would put Gibbs negotiations on hold until the end of the season if he knocks back an initial contract offer which is deemed to be fair.  It could be a parting of ways that suits both of us as the acquistion and then annual wait for Gibbs to come of age represents exactly why we have taken so long to emerge from mediocrity.  We are too afraid to make the hard calls.  Moving Hammer on was the first of many that we are required to make.

This all occurred listening to Troy Chaplin on SEN this morning.  He was another just going through the motions as a good ordinary AFL footballer and then he moved to Richmond.  He had no pressing need to move, but hearing him talk, the move has done him the world of good.  Not to mention the opening at Port has allowed others to come in and play his role who might be a bit hungrier and this has also lifted Port.  Im not in favour of this occurring En Masse, but in certain situations it might be time.  Make an offer, if he asks for time, give him time, and weigh in again later.  He is a restricted free agent.  If we decide to match any offers, he isnt going anywhere.  No point bidding up his price unless absolutely required.

Chaplin had a dodgy knee didnt he? and Port didnt want to offer any long term well paid contract for a player they though was risky...
I wouldnt be offering Gibbs a fortune to stay and if he wants to go then fine by me...

Yep, this is a very big year for Meat and Rowey and they both must be aware that it's deliver or FO. I have a hunch there will be another clean-out at year's end, though not 25 like last year. Probably 12-15.

Quote from: Thryleon on February 18, 2014, 02:31:58 pm

IMHO a Warnock trade would have been silly.

No matter how good Hammer could have been, he would still be a barely there proposition as opposed to the other two.  Warnock and Kreuzer if they are competitive or winning their ruck duals, it will go a long way to winning matches.

I dont think that was ever true of Hammer.  The trouble being is that even when he won the ruck dual, it wouldnt necessarily be to our advantage like the other two.

I think you are making yourself feel better about the trade.

You will find plenty of posts here on the forum (Not just mine by the way) that rated Hampson a better ruckmen than you profess. In fact even last season there were plenty of us who watched the NBs who just couldn't not understand why he wasn't getting a game in the 1s ahead of Warnock. At times Warnock spent the majority of time in the NBs sitting on the bench while Hampson and Meese did the bulk of the ruck work. Prior to his late season injury Hampson was in far better ruck form than SpecialK, and was always far better around the ground than Warnock who is basically exceptionally good in a one dimensional center bounce role.

Quote from: ItsOurTime on February 18, 2014, 04:38:25 pm

Bit of an unfair call on hammer. If the other two were left to struggle as go to marking targets (and Hammer is not a forward) they'd probably have a line their them already. His last decent run in the ruck before being injured he was pretty damn good.

And here in lies the rub, we traded away a genuine first ruck option and kept a bunch of failing KPPs. For those carrying on about the $avings, not really, as I have had it explained to me Wood qualifies as a 9th year player so he isn't such a great saving as a rookie. The AFLPA do not discriminate between 8 years plus 1 later and 9 years continuous service. Despite being on the rookie list he is earning a very tidy sum, far more than an 18 year old which is in my opinion who we should have been recruiting! This is exactly the situation Collingwood tried on when they wanted to appoint Ben Hudson as a $300K playing(rookie) ruck coach.

Yep, this is a very big year for Meat and Rowey and they both must be aware that it's deliver or FO. I have a hunch there will be another clean-out at year's end, though not 25 like last year. Probably 12-15.