"I'm a Doctor, not an engineer!"
"Now you're an engineer."
Sicks munfs agoo I cudent even spil ingineer, now I are one. 8)
and SPS.
And Weitering - he's way off today.
So, who at CARLTON FOOTBALL CLUB is putting their hand up tonight and taking responsibility for that drivel?
Seriously, the amount of f... ups we generate, even under no pressure, whatsoever is staggering.
Dow and SPS - absolute howler merchants.
Plow not far behind.
How is it that a ball spills out in a tackle against us and its play on, yet when our blokes do it we get pinged for holding the ball?
I'm sick of this. I watch every minute of every game and it's the same crap every week. Our players get no protection from the umpires and the second we retaliate bang free kick.
Poor cohesion within our group, poorly drilled and poorly executed by the players.
Move McGovern to CHB and try to get him into the game, play Kerr at CHF.
Stocker kicks the ball well, and Dow continually butchers it. SPS just doesn't get involved enough.
No run and spread from the contest again, and the Saints just sat back off the contest and we fell apart.
Agreed but not really the point. If we were better, smarter with the ball, and didn't cough it up repeatedly - like 30 times a game, we might win irrespective of the carp umpiring....
Poor cohesion within our group, poorly drilled and poorly executed by the players.
Move McGovern to CHB and try to get him into the game, play Kerr at CHF.
Stocker kicks the ball well, and Dow continually butchers it. SPS just doesn't get involved enough.
No run and spread from the contest again, and the Saints just sat back off the contest and we fell apart.
We were whipped repeatedly in a coaching sense.
Bolton slower than a squashed snail to make a change....
Agreed but not really the point. If we were better, smarter with the ball, and didn't cough it up repeatedly - like 30 times a game, we might win irrespective of the carp umpiring....
How did we get the ball 30 times a game?
Saints were coughing it up to us too.
So, who at CARLTON FOOTBALL CLUB is putting their hand up tonight and taking responsibility for that drivel?
Seriously, the amount of f... ups we generate, even under no pressure, whatsoever is staggering.
Dow and SPS - absolute howler merchants.
Plow not far behind.
We simply need a proper coach.
Our system and ball movement is park footy like
How did we get the ball 30 times a game?
Saints were coughing it up to us too.
I don't really give a f... how badly they played...
Was that a performance today you walk away from feeling proud?
The last 48 hours since the Scott story, I have continually heard that we have the most desirable list over Essendon, St Kilda, Freo and anyone else in the market for a coach. If that’s what the ‘experts’ are saying then we must be coached badly. If that’s the case, get rid of the coach before we are sapped of every ounce of confidence.
First time I’ve mentioned it, but the tribe has spoken Bolts....
We are just a rabble.
Very poor. "Out coached" is probably simplifying it a little but, as the commentators said, the Saint's structure and general management/direction on the field was more assured and rehearsed.
Silvagni as any sort of marking target is just Hail Mary stuff.
SPS is just a tease. Gets a 'pass' for the two run down tackles.
Positives:
Cripps, Walsh, Kruezer at least saw out the game, and honorable mention to Casboult.
The last 48 hours since the Scott story, I have continually heard that we have the most desirable list over Essendon, St Kilda, Freo and anyone else in the market for a coach. If that’s what the ‘experts’ are saying then we must be coached badly. If that’s the case, get rid of the coach before we are sapped of every ounce of confidence.
First time I’ve mentioned it, but the tribe has spoken Bolts....
Simple logic at its best. Well said.
Very poor. "Out coached" is probably simplifying it a little but, as the commentators said, the Saint's structure and general management/direction on the field was more assured and rehearsed.
Silvagni as any sort of marking target is just Hail Mary stuff.
SPS is just a tease. Gets a 'pass' for the two run down tackles.
Positives:
Cripps, Walsh, Kruezer at least saw out the game, and honorable mention to Casboult.
I disagree on SPS, the first one he was clearly jogging half heartedly until the St Kilda guy stopped and propped - he had no choice but to show a bit after t hat...
..................and I can see no improvement.
Cripps was held under control by Steele who also had 10 tackles and Kreuzer IMO struggled vs a makeshift ruck in Marshall.
Clear as day we need a new ruckman who can dominate a game and we need another big onballer who can take over when Cripps
is held to just a good game.
The list needs work and SOS has to be held accountable.....Stkilda are carp and we should have won easy but its more than just Bolton IMO, we lack talent
and need to review the list and do some more structured recruiting to fill the many holes we have.
eg Some say to drop Dow then you look at replacements...LOB, Polson, Lang, Garlett, Lebois.....we are having to look at Deluca because of the spuds we have...
How is it Brad Scott can get the ass from North with their list, and a 50/50 win record and we have blokes on here still defending Bolton?
We were absolutely terrible today.
We cannot move the footy with any structure.
We always hang on to the footy too long, looking for a perfect disposal.
Nothing that we haven't seen before. They hunted and created, we did not. Nothing will change without a game plan that's well executed. We don't have one, at least as far as I can see. They swamped us with their options and we watched.
When we had the ball? Hope.
Sounds crazy but this is starting to feel like an existential crisis. :(
Cripps was held under control by Steele who also had 10 tackles and Kreuzer IMO struggled vs a makeshift ruck in Marshall.
Clear as day we need a new ruckman who can dominate a game and we need another big onballer who can take over when Cripps
is held to just a good game.
The list needs work and SOS has to be held accountable.....Stkilda are carp and we should have won easy but its more than just Bolton IMO, we lack talent
and need to review the list and do some more structured recruiting to fill the many holes we have.
We have a heap of first round picks on our list.
They are not playing anywhere near there potential.
The coach is responsible for this.
We have a heap of first round picks on our list.
They are not playing anywhere near there potential.
The coach is responsible for this.
That would seem to be the compelling conclusion - we just don't seem to have a clue.
Cripps was held under control by Steele who also had 10 tackles and Kreuzer IMO struggled vs a makeshift ruck in Marshall.
Clear as day we need a new ruckman who can dominate a game and we need another big onballer who can take over when Cripps
is held to just a good game.
The list needs work and SOS has to be held accountable.....Stkilda are carp and we should have won easy but its more than just Bolton IMO, we lack talent
and need to review the list and do some more structured recruiting to fill the many holes we have.
eg Some say to drop Dow then you look at replacements...LOB, Polson, Lang, Garlett, Lebois.....we are having to look at Deluca because of the spuds we have...
Watching us and being a supporter of the Carlton football club is like having a close friend that is a crack and ice addict. You care so much with passion, yet you don’t know where to start to help. You know death is near but your hands are tied.
Sadly effort wasn't the issue today we are just not good enough folks. Have the weakest list by a country mile, coupled with no depth. Only had Jones and Doc out today and yet the skills are deplorable with a non existent game plan. Wont win another game for the year and time has now come for a change.
This is the dumbest team ever assembled - Needing 2 goals in the final 2 mins what so we do - I have an idea lets FARKING chip the ball sideways and even back wards FFS and then take the pace off the game before finally kicking long towards he boundary line. That a new level of stupid. Pack of numbnuts.
We are 4 years in....have one win out of 10 and sit ancored bottom by 2 games and percentage....another wooden spoon headed over. Worse is despite building this group over the last 3and half years we STILL have no game plan, HTF does this happen!!! And the lack of development of the draft picks and trades we have backed in for this rebuild cant be ignored any longer or excuses made for it.
We have all been patient but enough is enough. The short man and all his coaches must ALL go now and a new established coach with proven line coaches to come in before the year is out.
I really hoped that this would work but it's plain now that it hasn't, we haven't improved one iota this season and have probably regressed.
Players with high skills like Petrevski-Seton are making basic errors under little pressure, our confidence is shot to pieces and the senior coach must take responsibility.
It hasn't worked, Bolton has to go.
Much of the sloppiness around the middle and the shamble that is our forward line are more down to assistant coaches. For all those bagging the head coach the focus needs to be on the effectiveness of our midfield coaching and the link up forward.
Gosh we are so hard to watch.
We have a heap of first round picks on our list.
They are not playing anywhere near there potential.
The coach is responsible for this.
Kreuzer needs replacing, had zero tackles for the game and doesnt influence games and we have poor depth, agree the coaching aint great but the recruiting needs to be looked at....another bandaid in Deluca about to be picked up. Too many pretty 1st round picks but not enough footballers willing to put in on the line...eg Marchbank got bumped off the ball by a midget like Parker at a crucial time, we are so soft and fragile its sad to watch. Kids like Stocker flying the flag and having to put up with zero support.
Watching us and being a supporter of the Carlton football club is like having a close friend that is a crack and ice addict. You care so much with passion, yet you don’t know where to start to help. You know death is near but your hands are tied.
Very graphically put Mants. Feels like being mesmerised as we watch oncoming oblivion. Something just has to give...........and soon. I really feel for all of our young guys as their AFL careers are possibly frittered away.
That would seem to be the compelling conclusion - we just don't seem to have a clue.
Clueless is the right word? :(
Much of the sloppiness around the middle and the shamble that is our forward line are more down to assistant coaches. For all those bagging the head coach the focus needs to be on the effectiveness of our midfield coaching and the link up forward.
Gosh we are so hard to watch.
The assistant coaches are picked by the head coach ffs....
I have a really dumb idea that just might work. Can we request the AFL allow us to merge with North. Surely we could merge some of their skilled and hardened bodies to our squad to make a side that wins games.
We'll all take what we want from the game.
My take...
We were better than last week (couldn't possibly be much worse)
The players did come to play, and the effort and attitude early on was quite good.
They did fly the flag when teammates were monstered
But I suspect it reached a point around the end of the first quarter where they felt they'd done enough to exorcise the ghosts of last week and they dropped the intensity.
Too many went missing after a good start.
Our skill level remains deplorable especially when a little bit of pressure is applied.
and finally....
The umpires were horrendous, and I'm one who normally just ignores it when folks blame the umpiring, but...
We need to make a formal complaint about it....because there were enough examples today of just terrible decisions.
I have a really dumb idea that just might work. Can we request the AFL allow us to merge with North. Surely we could merge some of their skilled and hardened bodies to our squad to make a side that wins games.
Do you know that was the substance of my very first post on the forum back in 2002.
A merger with North.
Folks were pretty kind in retrospect...we were all a little shell-chocked in those days.
If only we'd known then it was about to get a whole lot worse.
If Bolton got sacked tonight, would he have the worst win/loss record ever of AFL coaches (barring a few interim coaches)?
If Bolton got sacked tonight, would he have the worst win/loss record ever of AFL coaches (barring a few interim coaches)?
Dew's is worse for now.
In short, and atrocious umpiring aside, we just do not have a clue about playing footy at this level - basically completely disorganised and running around like headless chooks. I cannot see us winning another game in the foreseeable future. I am demoralised.
Do you know that was the substance of my very first post on the forum back in 2002.
A merger with North.
Folks were pretty kind in retrospect...we were all a little shell-chocked in those days.
If only we'd known then it was about to get a whole lot worse.
The Blue Roos - :(
In short, and atrocious umpiring aside, we just do not have a clue about playing footy at this level - basically completely disorganised and running around like headless chooks. I cannot see us winning another game in the foreseeable future. I am demoralised.
Cookie, Got a injury ravaged Bombers next week coached by a bloke who probably wont have a job at years end, if we lose to our bitches in Essendon then I think
thats total regression and Brad Scott might get a call or two but IMO we can win next week but I dont think it will change much.
Much of the sloppiness around the middle and the shamble that is our forward line are more down to assistant coaches. For all those bagging the head coach the focus needs to be on the effectiveness of our midfield coaching and the link up forward.
Gosh we are so hard to watch.
The senior coach is responsible for the assistant coaches, he's their leader, he's the one who is accountable. If they're not following instructions or stuffing up, well he's had 3 1/2 years to fix it/to set a culture for the assistant coaches to fit into. The buck must stop somewhere and throwing the blame all about the place let's him off.. and other senior people at the club.
I take no pleasure in saying I told you so. Again, I'm gutted, where to now? I agree with Cokkie in that we wont win a game in the foreseeable future. I have felt like this since the North game to be honest.
Just a shambles of a football team devoid of any confidence. As soon as the opposition turns up the wick we got to water. Peg it back to 5 points and thats it, no fight whatsover after that.
Cookie, Got a injury ravaged Bombers next week coached by a bloke who probably wont have a job at years end, if we lose to our bitches in Essendon then I think
thats total regression and Brad Scott might get a call or two but IMO we can win next week but I dont think it will change much.
Thanks EB - it conjures up a picture of two starving men fighting for that last crust of stale bread before they have to negotiate the Canning Stock Route on foot. :(
Cookie, Got a injury ravaged Bombers next week coached by a bloke who probably wont have a job at years end, if we lose to our bitches in Essendon then I think
thats total regression and Brad Scott might get a call or two but IMO we can win next week but I dont think it will change much.
Sorry dude. You know I love you to bits an especially your work. You said the same last week about the Saints. Do I need to find the post for you? We are f@ck next. Mark my words now.
Kreuzer needs replacing, had zero tackles for the game and doesnt influence games and we have poor depth, agree the coaching aint great but the recruiting needs to be looked at....another bandaid in Deluca about to be picked up. Too many pretty 1st round picks but not enough footballers willing to put in on the line...eg Marchbank got bumped off the ball by a midget like Parker at a crucial time, we are so soft and fragile its sad to watch. Kids like Stocker flying the flag and having to put up with zero support.
Unusual for Kreuzer not to have any tackles as that's a decent point usually, and I've certainly seen him be influential. I think what we have put together is alright just most of them would have no idea of their roles, or, in a couple of cases, lost confidence to the point of being shattered. Look what we did to Weitering last year. Give him a proper role that he understands and he's suddenly a decent player. Coaching is a big issue.
Watching us is like watching a side without coaches - directionless, systemless, confused, and at times aimless. Though, early on, there was genuine spirit and endeavour... until our opponents applied serious pressure and we resorted to type - poos in pants. Probably the most undisciplined side in the competition.
Had the Aints kicked straight it would have been a comfortable 5 gl win for them (8 more shots on goal... thank the gods for their inaccuracy).
Something is very, very wrong when talented players seem to go backwards in their development.
Enough is enough.
Swallow your pride MLG, OUR club is in serious trouble and your faith is misguided.
Unusual for Kreuzer not to have any tackles as that's a decent point usually, and I've certainly seen him be influential. I think what we have put together is alright just most of them would have no idea of their roles, or, in a couple of cases, lost confidence to the point of being shattered. Look what we did to Weitering last year. Give him a proper role that he understands and he's suddenly a decent player. Coaching is a big issue.
I was quite disappointed with big K today. We lost the hit outs to a second rate ruck. I expected better from kreuzer.
Sorry dude. You know I love you to bits an especially your work. You said the same last week about the Saints. Do I need to find the post for you? We are f@ck next. Mark my words now.
Agree Mants..I have been trying to find ways for us to win but its getting harder, Essendon is probably my last roll of the dice for a win in the near future.
Dont think even a win next week though is going to stop the winds of change and the pressure on the club is now at breaking point, I'd expect some action
if we lose next week vs a traditional enemy who we dominate usually.
PS you dont need to find that post for me and if you do just get the mods to delete it as its not my finest work... ;)
We should be playing two rucks if we want Kreuzer to still be playing when we are better.
Sorry dude. You know I love you to bits an especially your work. You said the same last week about the Saints. Do I need to find the post for you? We are f@ck next. Mark my words now.
Agree. Will need everything to go our way to have any chance next week - highly unlikely we beat them - They beat us when they had there top up team FFS.
No one wants to have the shame to lose to us so they just wont let it happen. Those narrow loses stuffed our confidence and our boys are gone before they run thru the banner. We look ok when we are on top but as soon as any sort of resistance comes we turn to sh1t.
Be very surprised to see another win this year. We are by far the worse team in it....and all those that like to talk up all the early picks and potential young talent we have, time to call it as it is.....nice to be positive but comes a point where you need to just call it as it is, and the truth is we are awful.
Watching us is like watching a side without coaches - directionless, systemless, confused, and at times aimless. Though, early on, there was genuine spirit and endeavour... until our opponents applied serious pressure and we resorted to type - poos in pants. Probably the most undisciplined side in the competition.
Had the Aints kicked straight it would have been a comfortable 5 gl win for them (8 more shots on goal... thank the gods for their inaccuracy).
Something is very, very wrong when talented players seem to go backwards in their development.
Enough is enough.
Swallow your pride MLG, OUR club is in serious trouble and your faith is misguided.
Just think of the Roman Army Baggers - organised, disciplined, knew their roles, well led. They got done over a few times but would pretty much always beat savage barbarian armies of highly ferocious individual warriors who in some cases had them heavily outnumbered. Our guys have little idea of their roles and are very poorly prepared and drilled. Wonder who that may be down to?
We should be playing two rucks if we want Kreuzer to still be playing when we are better.
Need a new ruckman IMO, he should have dominated Marshall but he seems to struggle vs the bigger awkward types.....
In fact we need a new ruck division...Lobbe is shot and Philips is handy backup only....TDK still a novice.
Need a new ruckman IMO, he should have dominated Marshall but he seems to struggle vs the bigger awkward types.....
In fact we need a new ruck division...Lobbe is shot and Philips is handy backup only....TDK still a novice.
Kreuzer looks shot tbh.
I was quite disappointed with big K today. We lost the hit outs to a second rate ruck. I expected better from kreuzer.
You have your days but he's the least of our issues.
Agree. Will need everything to go our way to have any chance next week - highly unlikely we beat them - They beat us when they had there top up team FFS.
No one wants to have the shame to lose to us so they just wont let it happen. Those narrow loses stuffed our confidence and our boys are gone before they run thru the banner. We look ok when we are on top but as soon as any sort of resistance comes we turn to sh1t.
Be very surprised to see another win this year. We are by far the worse team in it....and all those that like to talk up all the early picks and potential young talent we have, time to call it as it is.....nice to be positive but comes a point where you need to just call it as it is, and the truth is we are awful.
We find a way of beating Essendon even when we are horrible. Don't ask me how it happens.
Won't be tipping us though..lol.
I take no pleasure in saying I told you so. Again, I'm gutted, where to now? I agree with Cokkie in that we wont win a game in the foreseeable future. I have felt like this since the North game to be honest.
Just a shambles of a football team devoid of any confidence. As soon as the opposition turns up the wick we got to water. Peg it back to 5 points and thats it, no fight whatsover after that.
No.
You were right.
I think some of us were basing our win predictions on the back of the player meeting.
Those type of things often work and teams come with an improved attitude and effort.
And they did today.... for a while, but they couldn't sustain it.
Just think of the Roman Army Baggers - organised, disciplined, knew their roles, well led. They got done over a few times but would pretty much always beat savage barbarian armies of highly ferocious individual warriors who in some cases had them heavily outnumbered. Our guys have little idea of their roles and are very poorly prepared and drilled. Wonder who that may be down to?
Yep. Well said, Fluffy One.
No more meetings at the club. None unless we win a game.
Once again handballs seemed to be a factor.
They used it often and well to get out of trouble, or to set up a forward drive...some of their passes seemed instinctive, like they knew a player would be there.
We don't have that.
Agree Mants..I have been trying to find ways for us to win but its getting harder, Essendon is probably my last roll of the dice for a win in the near future.
Dont think even a win next week though is going to stop the winds of change and the pressure on the club is now at breaking point, I'd expect some action
if we lose next week vs a traditional enemy who we dominate usually.
PS you dont need to find that post for me and if you do just get the mods to delete it as its not my finest work... ;)
I was the same. Thought we'd account for the Aints today. They had some important outs and were vulnerable but beat us with sustained, disciplined footy without any real stars. And, like you, I'm confident (hopeful!!) we'll account for a depleted cheats.com.au We can beat sides that are in poor form - which is feint praise.
Once again handballs seemed to be a factor.
They used it often and well to get out of trouble, or to set up a forward drive...some of their passes seemed instinctive, like they knew a player would be there.
We don't have that.
What do we have ???
We need a couple of midfielders who can run, carry and kick the footy.
Cripps was trying to do it today which doesn't work.
Watching Bradley Hill now and is setting up everything.
What do we have ???
Patrick Cripps.
Once again handballs seemed to be a factor.
They used it often and well to get out of trouble, or to set up a forward drive...some of their passes seemed instinctive, like they knew a player would be there.
We don't have that.
I think it’s also tied into the belief that some of our list either make dumb decisions or are turnover merchants Lods.
I mean are we making poor decisions or just trying to hit the best option that’s offered ? ie support isn’t in the right place or someone(s) aren’t working hard enough to present ?
Look at the bombing into the forward line in the last... there was no movement, no space to lead into, no one presenting anywhere at all, so what else can the ball carrier do but send it in long and deep ?
Didn’t bother watching the game, I’ve lost all optimism.
Sick of our first round picks not improving - I know it’s hard in a low team when you’re not surrounded by greatness but ffs what needs to happen here for anyone to improve?
Honestly, who has improved? Who is in charge of development?
Why doesn’t anyone want to take the game on and make a pact to work for each other? Sick of watching this stuff, don’t care what has to happen from here but officially I’ve lost my care about feelings or the right thing to do. I want to watch an exciting team full of young stars in the making and I’m seeing better at the suburban grounds on the weekend. Completely gutted and over it.
Once again handballs seemed to be a factor.
They used it often and well to get out of trouble, or to set up a forward drive...some of their passes seemed instinctive, like they knew a player would be there.
We don't have that.
... as was evidenced in the last q when SPS handballed straight to the opposition. I couldn't work out from the TV angle who it was intended for - didn't seem to be any teammates in the vicinity. Just panicked and coughed it up.
... as was evidenced in the last q when SPS handballed straight to the opposition. I couldn't work out from the TV angle who it was intended for - didn't seem to be any teammates in the vicinity. Just panicked and coughed it up.
I’d give him the doubt and presume there was someone over the top, he was being tackled and had to unload, where was the support ?
Not excusing the poor skills, the deplorable decision making, the lack of system or structure and the lack of effort at times BUT a few extra wise heads would make the world of difference.
Thought Weiters had a real shocker today... and our 3 big forwards, other than a few cameos from Charlie were terrible....the forward 50 was so congested....more than just slow ball movement (ps i need to watch the replay).
Not excusing the poor skills, the deplorable decision making, the lack of system or structure and the lack of effort at times BUT a few extra wise heads would make the world of difference.
Thought Weiters had a real shocker today... and our 3 big forwards, other than a few cameos from Charlie were terrible....the forward 50 was so congested....more than just slow ball movement (ps i need to watch the replay).
D Teague, the hot shot fwd coach we got from Adelaide the Gov so desperately wanted to work with. Some on here suggest we should sack Bolton and make this bloke the Coach. Our fwd line has never looked more shambolic.
With our big 3 forwards I am not sure why we don't kick it to them?
D Teague, the hot shot fwd coach we got from Adelaide the Gov so desperately wanted to work with. Some on here suggest we should sack Bolton and make this bloke the Coach. Our fwd line has never looked more shambolic.
He did a great job at other clubs and was something outstanding as coach of the Northern Bullants taking one ordinary team to consecutive GFs. If he was outstanding at other clubs, so much so that McGovern came her just to work with him, why is he suddenly no good here? I'll take McGovern's word before that of a poster otherwise why the F would you want to come here. Assistants are at the mercy of the head coach. A forward coach is at the complete mercy of the crap up the field. You have no hope with that $hit. Wouldn't matter who did that job.
If he was great at other clubs, why is he struggling here. Ask yourself that. Alot probably thought Ratten was a crap assistant under Pagan............until he got the top job.
D Teague, the hot shot fwd coach we got from Adelaide the Gov so desperately wanted to work with. Some on here suggest we should sack Bolton and make this bloke the Coach. Our fwd line has never looked more shambolic.
Perhaps he is a better people manager than strategist?
Was at the game and it felt like watching the under 5s - basically a rolling scrimmage with no system or structure. Painful to watch.
Couldnt really have picked out any stand out players but Casboult stood out, which is great for him, but also an indictment on the club.
Plowman has to go.
Dow makes lots of mistakes but I’d definitely persist.
Kennedy & Silvagni painfully slow.
Nothing in the 2s.
Not excusing the poor skills, the deplorable decision making, the lack of system or structure and the lack of effort at times BUT a few extra wise heads would make the world of difference.
Thought Weiters had a real shocker today... and our 3 big forwards, other than a few cameos from Charlie were terrible....the forward 50 was so congested....more than just slow ball movement (ps i need to watch the replay).
Your 3 big forward at at the total mercy of the $hit up the field. No predictability. They'd have no idea what is coming in at any time so how do they set.
Where did we kick it today? So often to JSOS covered by 3 defenders. No wonder they are lost. I don't put alot of blame there.
Clangers today 66, scoreboard 55.
D Teague, the hot shot fwd coach we got from Adelaide the Gov so desperately wanted to work with. Some on here suggest we should sack Bolton and make this bloke the Coach. Our fwd line has never looked more shambolic.
Ummm have you watched how the ball comes in?
Do you honestly think any forward line would perform?
He did a great job at other clubs and was something outstanding as coach of the Northern Bullants taking one ordinary team to consecutive GFs. If he was outstanding at other clubs, so much so that McGovern came her just to work with him, why is he suddenly no good here? I'll take McGovern's word before that of a poster otherwise why the F would you want to come here. Assistants are at the mercy of the head coach. A forward coach is at the complete mercy of the crap up the field. You have no hope with that $hit. Wouldn't matter who did that job.
If he was great at other clubs, why is he struggling here. Ask yourself that. Alot probably thought Ratten was a crap assistant under Pagan............until he got the top job.
Ask yourself who is our fwd coach.
Ummm have you watched how the ball comes in?
Do you honestly think any forward line would perform?
Ummm did you see the positioning of the fwds today?
Was at the game and it felt like watching the under 5s - basically a rolling scrimmage with no system or structure. Painful to watch.
Couldnt really have picked out any stand out players but Casboult stood out, which is great for him, but also an indictment on the club.
Plowman has to go.
Dow makes lots of mistakes but I’d definitely persist.
Kennedy & Silvagni painfully slow.
Nothing in the 2s.
They were talking up the return of Plowman before the game.
Makes bad decisions and fumbles a lot.
Other than that he’s ok
Ummm did you see the positioning of the fwds today?
Yeah I did.
The whole team is a mess, and you want to single out the forwards.
Early in the game they were fine.
Then we didn’t win any footy.
Conversion rate for forward entries was ok for most of the first half.
Are they perfect, no, but ffs it’s like trying to win an F1 race with a commodore
Ummm did you see the positioning of the fwds today?
I don't give a toss whether it's the players or the coach's fault...it's unacceptable for all these blokes - players and coaches - to dish that rubbish up at this level.
ps I'm talking about the entire 22, not just the 3 key forwards.
and SPS.
And Weitering - he's way off today.
He doesn’t cope well with mid sized physical, quick opposition. Why the coach didn’t say, I don’t know, swap him with McGovern for a spell to see what would happen? McGovern was doing two shakes of f-all anyway. At least Weitering can take a mark and force the Saints to re-asses? Who knows. I’m just sick of it. Maybe Andy Maher was right about the word on the street that Bolton is a stubborn guy. I think inept is more apt.
MLG. Step up to the Plate. Call for an independent review, right now. State that all positions are under Review. Ideally, I’d love Bolton to be sacked now, to give some assistant 12 games to try his luck and also prove to would be coaches like Longmire, Roos, Scott that we can play. There is no point waiting any longer for Bolton to prove that he cannot get 4 quarters of effort out of a team and have them working as a unit, with a clear system. Ideally Roos - until Clarkson’s contract is up in 3 years and then we nab him. Bolton cannot seem to make logical decisions, promptly, on game day and plays his favourites. Please just walk the plank. Even if we beat Essendon next week, it just feels to me like holding back the inevitable at this point. At this point we are doing more damage to the brand than we are working on building success.
Bolton may be stubborn, but our players have no confidence and don't work hard enough. I can't say the same things every week for the other teams going around, not every week.
Bolton may be stubborn, but our players have no confidence and don't work hard enough. I can't say the same things every week for the other teams going around, not every week.
A real concern for me is our “younger” mids and their lack of possessions.
Everyone says they need time to build up their tank.
How is it that Walsh out works SPS, Fisher, Dow and Murphy every week?
Not sure if it's been mentioned but Cripps's first 15 -20 minutes were outstanding.
The guy looked like he was determined to drag the rest of them along with him to fulfil the promise of the players meeting.
Unfortunately after a good start they dropped off and he couldn't carry them any further,
I don't give a toss whether it's the players or the coach's fault...it's unacceptable for all these blokes - players and coaches - to dish that rubbish up at this level.
ps I'm talking about the entire 22, not just the 3 key forwards.
X2.
Excuses are done. Is anyone watching our games and feeling positive, at alll? About any of them?
He doesn’t cope well with mid sized physical, quick opposition. Why the coach didn’t say, I don’t know, swap him with McGovern for a spell to see what would happen? McGovern was doing two shakes of f-all anyway. At least Weitering can take a mark and force the Saints to re-asses? Who knows. I’m just sick of it. Maybe Andy Maher was right about the word on the street that Bolton is a stubborn guy. I think inept is more apt.
MLG. Step up to the Plate. Call for an independent review, right now. State that all positions are under Review. Ideally, I’d love Bolton to be sacked now, to give some assistant 12 games to try his luck and also prove to would be coaches like Longmire, Roos, Scott that we can play. There is no point waiting any longer for Bolton to prove that he cannot get 4 quarters of effort out of a team and have them working as a unit, with a clear system. Ideally Roos - until Clarkson’s contract is up in 3 years and then we nab him. Bolton cannot seem to make logical decisions, promptly, on game day and plays his favourites. Please just walk the plank. Even if we beat Essendon next week, it just feels to me like holding back the inevitable at this point. At this point we are doing more damage to the brand than we are working on building success.
There is no point keeping Bolton past - tomorrow.
The players won't play for him - they were - as a Group - lazy again today. Lazy mentally and lazy physically....
After quarter time we seldom had equal numbers around the ball?
We only stayed close due to St Kilda's own ineptitude!
It really should have been 40+ at half time....
I don't give a toss whether it's the players or the coach's fault...it's unacceptable for all these blokes - players and coaches - to dish that rubbish up at this level.
ps I'm talking about the entire 22, not just the 3 key forwards.
No argument from me on that mate.
Not sure if it's been mentioned but Cripps's first 15 -20 minutes were outstanding.
The guy looked like he was determined to drag the rest of them along with him to fulfil the promise of the players meeting.
Unfortunately after a good start they dropped off and he couldn't carry them any further,
Cripps got off to a good start but I thought his opponent Steele was very good with 28 possies and 10 tackles and the Saints mids combined efforts
wore us down. Thought we failed again to help Cripps and the work load is wearing him down....Dow and Fisher were unsighted and Kennedy didnt have any real impact.
Cripps got off to a good start but I thought his opponent Steele was very good with 28 possies and 10 tackles and the Saints mids combined efforts
wore us down. Thought we failed again to help Cripps and the work load is wearing him down....Dow and Fisher were unsighted and Kennedy didnt have any real impact.
Yep Steele was good and kept Cripps honest for most of the day...I just thought Cripps efforts at the start were really good and showed that he at least was prepared to back up the talk with actions...but you don't expect anything less from him..
Funny moment...we had a visitor at one stage and Cripps had the ball lining up for a goal...She said "Is he the captain, he looks about 2", maybe he's still a baby faced assassin.
Maybe we should make him Captain Coach....(on second thoughts we probably don't want him to go into the Black Hole that is the Carlton coaching job).
Cripps got off to a good start but I thought his opponent Steele was very good with 28 possies and 10 tackles and the Saints mids combined efforts
wore us down. Thought we failed again to help Cripps and the work load is wearing him down....Dow and Fisher were unsighted and Kennedy didnt have any real impact.
Kennedy was good early - very good I thought - but faded...
Fisher has lost his mojo, Dow leaves me speechless (in a bad way) and Ed Curnow is treading water.
SOJ was ordinary too.
Gibbons did his job today (other than a few bad decisions)
Cripps got off to a good start but I thought his opponent Steele was very good with 28 possies and 10 tackles and the Saints mids combined efforts
wore us down. Thought we failed again to help Cripps and the work load is wearing him down....Dow and Fisher were unsighted and Kennedy didnt have any real impact.
It’s like there are 22 blokes all playing their own game, but they just happen to wear the same jumper.
Zero cohesion or team work.
No shepherding or blocks.
Everyone just trying to get a kick away before getting tackled
Cripps got off to a good start but I thought his opponent Steele was very good with 28 possies and 10 tackles and the Saints mids combined efforts
wore us down. Thought we failed again to help Cripps and the work load is wearing him down....Dow and Fisher were unsighted and Kennedy didnt have any real impact.
EB. If you had the opportunity, who would you try and snag tomorrow and during trade week to specifically help Cripps? Any stand out that you think, yep, he’s the one. Call Juddy and ready the Plane. Is it The Rabbit or someone more imposing who has a bit of Dog in him? You must have a list :D
EB. If you had the opportunity, who would you try and snag tomorrow and during trade week to specifically help Cripps? Any stand out that you think, yep, he’s the one. Call Juddy and ready the Plane. Is it The Rabbit or someone more imposing who has a bit of Dog in him? You must have a list :D
Grundy
Mitch Robinson.
But it's always Cripps versus the rest. Where are the other mids? They should be ashamed of themselves. Do half of them even turn up?
But it's always Cripps versus the rest. Where are the other mids? They should be ashamed of themselves. Do half of them even turn up?
Well....
I have been saying for a few years, our culture or work ethic, particularly our mids, has been weak for a long long time. Everyone knows we were down hill skiers when Ratts was coach.
Things have never ever changed.
Will the players be satisfied with the level of effort they brought to today's contest?
The big danger is they might be, when in fact they probably need to take it to another level.
They were good for parts, but it wasn't sustained.
We've seen much better this season.
https://www.carltonfc.com.au/news/2019-05-26/ed-sums-up-saints?fbclid=IwAR31e-AhYnZJYwajZPVSRmU92Cr9DDbzXjoCHpoKGfmtef_W3Dhpjz9whkU
Walsh isn't a downhill skier, he's putting some of our so-called highly talented mids to shame every week
Will the players be satisfied with the level of effort they brought to today's contest?
The big danger is they might be, when in fact they probably need to take it to another level.
They were good for parts, but it wasn't sustained.
We've seen much better this season.
https://www.carltonfc.com.au/news/2019-05-26/ed-sums-up-saints?fbclid=IwAR31e-AhYnZJYwajZPVSRmU92Cr9DDbzXjoCHpoKGfmtef_W3Dhpjz9whkU
I saw this on the Club web site - Ed's clearly buying into Bolt's warm and fuzzy mediocrity is ok mantra - cos we're getting better! :-[ :-[
Disappointing garbage from a senior player.
Our blokes, overall, were poor today. Many were very poor.
EB. If you had the opportunity, who would you try and snag tomorrow and during trade week to specifically help Cripps? Any stand out that you think, yep, he’s the one. Call Juddy and ready the Plane. Is it The Rabbit or someone more imposing who has a bit of Dog in him? You must have a list :D
Woody ...Coniglio would give us another A grader who would draw a tag and heat off Cripps and is probably one for Matho and some Italian cuisine on the plane.
If I wanted strictly support for Cripps and what he was doing I would look at Luke Shuey who can win his own footy, and is a big time player who can win games and is very durable.
If I wanted to create more depth in the midfield and a bit of everything I would throw lots of money at the Crouch Brothers.....Matt is a class act and wins more ball than most and Brad
while not as good is more than handy and a reasonable size.
You want purely an agro mongrel type then Sam Pepper-Powell would be my choice....
Nice to dream isnt it? :) re: Grundy...made it clear its Collingwood or back to SA and probably the Crows.
Walsh isn't a downhill skier, he's putting some of our so-called highly talented mids to shame every week
Agree, I said that on the previous page.
Everyone says the fitness base takes years but he out works guys 3 years older
Walsh isn't a downhill skier, he's putting some of our so-called highly talented mids to shame every week
Yep. He really puts in. For someone who got out of nappies 10 minutes ago, playing in a struggling team, with all the external pressure / coaching questions swirling around, it's a super effort.
Yep. He really puts in. For someone who got out of nappies 10 minutes ago, playing in a struggling team, with all the external pressure / coaching questions swirling around, it's a super effort.
Agree...the kid pushes himself all the time, disposal has got a bit untidy but thats because he has to do so much and is under pressure.
Like his buddy Stocker too, solid footballer with some attitude to his game and we need that a lot...
Didn’t bother watching the game, I’ve lost all optimism.
Sick of our first round picks not improving - I know it’s hard in a low team when you’re not surrounded by greatness but ffs what needs to happen here for anyone to improve?
Honestly, who has improved? Who is in charge of development?
Why doesn’t anyone want to take the game on and make a pact to work for each other? Sick of watching this stuff, don’t care what has to happen from here but officially I’ve lost my care about feelings or the right thing to do. I want to watch an exciting team full of young stars in the making and I’m seeing better at the suburban grounds on the weekend. Completely gutted and over it.
Great post, just how I feel watching,just makes me depressed, I’m beyond frustration,won’t talk footy in conversations, I’ve unsubscribed from the fluff the club sends in emails, went to my first game with my dad in 64 loved footy and the blues since. Looked forward to every season even when we knew we were going nowhere but this year has just broken me, rebuild sorry reset hasn’t worked, sorry but even if they turn the corner I’m fried.
Went to the gws v melb game instead today no emotional involvement no pain.
Good luck getting 50000 members next year
I'm really worried about McGovern. When I go to games I like to pick a player and focus on him. Today was McGovern. I know he did his ankle in the last quarter, but up until then he was genuinely aweful. His workrate off the ball was terrible. He just doesn't work hard at all whne the opppostion have the ball, and they looked they they were specifically working the ball through the area that he was defending because they knew he wouldn't do anything to stop them moving the ball through that part of the ground. Very concerning
My highlight from today's game.
The guernsey. Sensational. At times our skill errors were disguised ???? by it's flashiness.
Congratulations to all involved in it's creation.
Would love to see our Indigenous Guernsey worn as our away strip.
I'm really worried about McGovern. When I go to games I like to pick a player and focus on him. Today was McGovern. I know he did his ankle in the last quarter, but up until then he was genuinely aweful. His workrate off the ball was terrible. He just doesn't work hard at all whne the opppostion have the ball, and they looked they they were specifically working the ball through the area that he was defending because they knew he wouldn't do anything to stop them moving the ball through that part of the ground. Very concerning
David Parkin on the wireless said similar. Said Gov will kick 3 goals in 3 minutes, and then will be unsighted for the rest of the match.
Now Parko would be a fantastic mentor for Bolts.
I'm really worried about McGovern. When I go to games I like to pick a player and focus on him. Today was McGovern. I know he did his ankle in the last quarter, but up until then he was genuinely aweful. His workrate off the ball was terrible. He just doesn't work hard at all whne the opppostion have the ball, and they looked they they were specifically working the ball through the area that he was defending because they knew he wouldn't do anything to stop them moving the ball through that part of the ground. Very concerning
Fair observation, ok our forward entries dont help but he hasnt worked hard enough IMO and been disappointing.
Bit harder to get a kick with us than the Crows and his work rate hasnt adjusted.
I'm not sold on McGovern, Harry and Charlie all being down forward every game, we always look congested, top heavy and they struggle to find space.
We badly lack that class mid sized finisher with some X factor like a Chad Wingard(when in form) or Jayden Stephenson who has that raw pace and happy knack of finding the ball
near goal.
Went to the game today and not many possitives to take away at all apart from the usual suspects (Cripps, Kreuzer, Walsh and a couple of others)
My summary;
* Game plan ( is there one? ) a mess. Poor positioning at stoppages, lack of spread when we get the ball out, zone not working - Saints often with loose players everywhere when we turn it over (which is often), bomb to forwards who, with 3-4 talls were often out of position.
* Skills terrible, appear to have gone backwards this year if that is possible. SPS worst offender as highlighted in last 5 mins when he picked out a Saints player 20m away whilst in the clear and under no pressure!
* Confidence shot. We look like chooks without heads, no system or teamwork.
* 1 percenters don't exist for us. How many shephards, blocks, tap ons etc did you see today? (Kreuz excepted)
We are going nowhere fast and something has to give. As a 30+ year member, I can't take any more of this crap we are dishing up.
Fair observation, ok our forward entries dont help but he hasnt worked hard enough IMO and been disappointing.
Bit harder to get a kick with us than the Crows and his work rate hasnt adjusted.
I'm not sold on McGovern, Harry and Charlie all being down forward every game, we always look congested, top heavy and they struggle to find space.
We badly lack that class mid sized finisher with some X factor like a Chad Wingard(when in form) or Jayden Stephenson who has that raw pace and happy knack of finding the ball
near goal.
You're looking at specifics EB, that's too miss the point.
Why so many of our lot looking listless, disinterested and playing accordingly?
You're looking at specifics EB, that's too miss the point.
Why so many of our lot looking listless, disinterested and playing accordingly?
You do the above when you are used to losing and motivation falls away, we got off to a good start
on the back of Cripps then they got in front and some of our blokes thought close enough is good enough
and yep thats a coaching issue.
I only commented on McGovern because Jack raised his name but we didnt have any real winners today and only a few break evens.
Kerr, Deluca(if drafted) in this week....
I'd be trying positional changes too...Newman on a wing, Kennedy half back flank etc etc
I think it's time to bring Kerr in, but he and McKay play similar roles, so they'll have to work that out. I'd like to see both C Curnow and McKay play much higher up the ground and give Kerr space inside 50, but of course the opposition will be working to make sure that doesn't happen
We simply need time.
Time for our youngsters to truly grow into their bodies.
Time played together to know each others strengths and weaknesses.
Time for our youngsters to become seasoned competitors.
Time for them to build belief in their abilities.
Time playing to the same game plan so the kids know what to do on game day.
Time doing it so they can learn when to stick to the plan and when to deviate.
I'm firmly of the belief that our coaches know more about the game than we do, and that where we see a player taking us apart and we wonder why he isnt being tagged, our coaches are wondering where his opponent is, and why he's let him run free.
Ever wondered why we constantly seem out numbered? The answer is simple. Too many aren't working up and down hard enough for long enough.
You do the above when you are used to losing and motivation falls away, we got off to a good start
on the back of Cripps then they got in front and some of our blokes thought close enough is good enough
and yep thats a coaching issue.
I only commented on McGovern because Jack raised his name but we didnt have any real winners today and only a few break evens.
Kerr, Deluca(if drafted) in this week....
I'd be trying positional changes too...Newman on a wing, Kennedy half back flank etc etc
ps I agree with you on the Guv.
He needs a rocket or time in the 2s...
Bolton needs to reward guys in the 2s who show something, anything - and dump names in the 1s if they're not getting a job done (which is pretty much everyone bar Cripps).
We simply need time.
Time for our youngsters to truly grow into their bodies.
Time played together to know each others strengths and weaknesses.
Time for our youngsters to become seasoned competitors.
Time for them to build belief in their abilities.
Time playing to the same game plan so the kids know what to do on game day.
Time doing it so they can learn when to stick to the plan and when to deviate.
I'm firmly of the belief that our coaches know more about the game than we do, and that where we see a player taking us apart and we wonder why he isnt being tagged, our coaches are wondering where his opponent is, and why he's let him run free.
Ever wondered why we constantly seem out numbered? The answer is simple. Too many aren't working up and down hard enough for long enough.
Time is the key.
The way this rebuild was structured injected an element of 'time' that gave an extra period for developing the list that would not usually have been sustainable.
That reduced the normal pressures on administration, list managers and coaches.
They were given longer than others in the past.
Very smart, very well sold.
But time can also be very fickle and there comes a point when it no longer works in your favour and counts against you (It's taking too long, You've had enough time.)
The longer it then takes the greater the pressure grows.
It grows quickly once it really starts to impact.
And the greater the pressure grows the more likely there will be change.
While individual supporters may maintain a faith until the end, those with the actual responsibility for administering the process will be the ones under the pump.
If every one of these holds their nerve in two or three years time we may have a good mid-aged competitive list.
In fact I'm pretty certain we will anyway...the question is 'how good' and 'how sustainable'?
And to believe all the current personnel will still be in place in their current roles just seems unrealistic.
People are seeing it now....MacGovern is either a bludger, or he conserves energy by not putting in, which suggests no tank. So hard questions need to be asked. He certainly isn't earning his cheque.
Never been sold on him either, only ever plays five minutes a game, then isn't sighted. But he has a lot if mates in that regard.
People are seeing it now....MacGovern is either a bludger, or he conserves energy by not putting in, which suggests no tank. So hard questions need to be asked. He certainly isn't earning his cheque.
Never been sold on him either, only ever plays five minutes a game, then isn't sighted. But he has a lot if mates in that regard.
And yet, with a functional midfield, he'd likely be good for 4-5 goals a game....
Maybe he's just realised what a basket case he's walked into...?
Time is the key.
The way this rebuild was structured injected an element of 'time' that gave an extra period for developing the list that would not usually have been sustainable.
That reduced the normal pressures on administration, list managers and coaches.
They were given longer than others in the past.
Very smart, very well sold.
But time can also be very fickle and there comes a point when it no longer works in your favour and counts against you (It's taking too long, You've had enough time.)
The longer it then takes the greater the pressure grows.
It grows quickly once it really starts to impact.
And the greater the pressure grows the more likely there will be change.
While individual supporters may maintain a faith until the end, those with the actual responsibility for administering the process will be the ones under the pump.
If every one of these holds their nerve in two or three years time we may have a good mid-aged competitive list.
In fact I'm pretty certain we will anyway...the question is 'how good' and 'how sustainable'?
And to believe all the current personnel will still be in place in their current roles just seems unrealistic.
I don't disagree lods.
In the words of bon Jovi we are halfway there and living on a prayer.
The thing is, it's not until the kids are the seasoned competitors (with or without cripps and docherty) that the rebuild will have achieved what it was supposed to.
Look at this line up:
Williamson--------weitering‐----------Plowman
Marchbank‐-------macreadie‐--------stocker
Sps‐--------------------setterfield------------fisher
McGovern‐----------Curnow-------------cunningham
Salvagni--------------mckay---------------polson
De koning-----------dow----------------walsh
Int: o'Brien, cripps, docherty, Pickett
Get 75 games average into that starting 18 and that's when the rebuild will show it's worth.
People are seeing it now....MacGovern is either a bludger, or he conserves energy by not putting in, which suggests no tank. So hard questions need to be asked. He certainly isn't earning his cheque.
Never been sold on him either, only ever plays five minutes a game, then isn't sighted. But he has a lot if mates in that regard.
Had that back injury in pre season and we haven't seen his best since.
I said it back in January. Ditto kreuzer and probably a few others.
Oh no.
Didn’t bother watching the game, I’ve lost all optimism.
Sick of our first round picks not improving - I know it’s hard in a low team when you’re not surrounded by greatness but ffs what needs to happen here for anyone to improve?
Honestly, who has improved? Who is in charge of development?
Why doesn’t anyone want to take the game on and make a pact to work for each other? Sick of watching this stuff, don’t care what has to happen from here but officially I’ve lost my care about feelings or the right thing to do. I want to watch an exciting team full of young stars in the making and I’m seeing better at the suburban grounds on the weekend. Completely gutted and over it.
I said a while ago that maybe we would be better off developing two teams essentially; one is our temporary seniors and the other is our emerging team. The emerging team play together in the VFL and build success, get to know each other and their style, learn their craft and then transition into our seniors. This was a tactic used by the early Geelong teams prior to their successful run, Neil Balme once mentioned this in an interview.
Gary Ablett junior, Bartel and a few others were deliberately played and allowed to develop together before coming up from the VFL. They won the VFL premiership and experienced success together.
Why could we not follow this type of method?
Imagine Dow, O'Brien, Setterfield, Stocker, Walsh and Charlie Curnow playing enough games to qualify for the VFL finals, Lang, Kennedy and Polson could come up and may still even qualify if we manage their seniors time given they have played reserves already. We set ourselves the aim of top four VFL with a real tilt at winning it. It might also mean Walsh does not play too many games and could still win the rising star next year.
We would need to think about 'dropping' seniors at key times to ensure we win (add Kruezer in for a key game or two), play McGovern at CHF or CHB for a series of games or McKay for a burst here and there, given our predicament currently why not have a go and at least generate some positivity in the club.
We simply need time.
Time for our youngsters to truly grow into their bodies.
Time played together to know each others strengths and weaknesses.
Time for our youngsters to become seasoned competitors.
Time for them to build belief in their abilities.
Time playing to the same game plan so the kids know what to do on game day.
Time doing it so they can learn when to stick to the plan and when to deviate.
I'm firmly of the belief that our coaches know more about the game than we do, and that where we see a player taking us apart and we wonder why he isnt being tagged, our coaches are wondering where his opponent is, and why he's let him run free.
Ever wondered why we constantly seem out numbered? The answer is simple. Too many aren't working up and down hard enough for long enough.
Time to find a coach that gets the basics right, so in a short amount of time our best player doesn’t call time on this crap club
... as was evidenced in the last q when SPS handballed straight to the opposition. I couldn't work out from the TV angle who it was intended for - didn't seem to be any teammates in the vicinity. Just panicked and coughed it up.
I saw no-one either. It was disgraceful
I saw no-one either. It was disgraceful
I think he did the same thing 3 or 4 times
We simply need time.
Time for our youngsters to truly grow into their bodies.
Time played together to know each others strengths and weaknesses.
Time for our youngsters to become seasoned competitors.
Time for them to build belief in their abilities.
Time playing to the same game plan so the kids know what to do on game day.
Time doing it so they can learn when to stick to the plan and when to deviate.
I'm firmly of the belief that our coaches know more about the game than we do, and that where we see a player taking us apart and we wonder why he isnt being tagged, our coaches are wondering where his opponent is, and why he's let him run free.
Ever wondered why we constantly seem out numbered? The answer is simple. Too many aren't working up and down hard enough for long enough.
Yes, all true, but the head hunters are out in force, and they won't rest until they claim a scalp. And one in particular.
You'd hope our coaches know more about the game than us! It's how they stack up against other club coaches that would be the bigger concern.
I watched (under great sufferance) Bolton's post match conference this morning. Must have taken a page from the worthless garbage the so called Club President spewed out pre game.
If that rubbish was supposed to instill faith in the "process" it failed on every level. He is NOT and never WILL be the answer. He is sub standard.
Take your severance cheque, Appoint a stand in and go all out for Ratten. I have had enough.
I watched (under great sufferance) Bolton's post match conference this morning. Must have taken a page from the worthless garbage the so called Club President spewed out pre game.
If that rubbish was supposed to instill faith in the "process" it failed on every level. He is NOT and never WILL be the answer. He is sub standard.
Take your severance cheque, Appoint a stand in and go all out for Ratten. I have had enough.
I agree that the loss is terribly disappointing and it was a poor performance. But to expect the head coach to rub gravel through his hair and join the chorus of lament is probably not wanted. Nor is singling out players.
I agree that the loss is terribly disappointing and it was a poor performance. But to expect the head coach to rub gravel through his hair and join the chorus of lament is probably not wanted. Nor is singling out players.
I make a habit of watching 6 pressers every week, and have done so for a while. No coach in recent memory publicly tears strips off their players. They don't even do a name and shame.
I watched (under great sufferance) Bolton's post match conference this morning. Must have taken a page from the worthless garbage the so called Club President spewed out pre game.
If that rubbish was supposed to instill faith in the "process" it failed on every level. He is NOT and never WILL be the answer. He is sub standard.
Take your severance cheque, Appoint a stand in and go all out for Ratten. I have had enough.
Even the most ardent supporters of Bolton would acknowledge that 1-9 is a shock - as painful as it is, the joirney that we all expected hasn’t worked. Notwithstanding all is not lost - over the past 4 years we’ve certainly improved the list and the culture. We’re in a far better position today. The club now needs a new set of voices to take the next step - it’s not a rebuild, just a fresh perspective built on the foundations of the past four years. This great club deserves a new coach, a couple of new assistants and probably a new CEO with some corporate credibility (not a membership massager) to revitalise the place.
I make a habit of watching 6 pressers every week, and have done so for a while. No coach in recent memory publicly tears strips off their players. They don't even do a name and shame.
Of course not. No decent manager would. And were Bolton to do so he would lose the players.
Such a young midfield yesterday. Short term it is going to continue to be difficult. The lack of senior leadership is the killer. Ed curnow had 20 touches and was probably in our best, but underwhelming for one of our seniors. Tough gig this Carlton supporting caper. Must be awful for the club and players
Yes, all true, but the head hunters are out in force, and they won't rest until they claim a scalp. And one in particular.
Yes, it's clear the same old same old will rule, Trumps America!
Even the most ardent supporters of Bolton would acknowledge that 1-9 is a shock - as painful as it is, the joirney that we all expected hasn’t worked. Notwithstanding all is not lost - over the past 4 years we’ve certainly improved the list and the culture. We’re in a far better position today. The club now needs a new set of voices to take the next step - it’s not a rebuild, just a fresh perspective built on the foundations of the past four years. This great club deserves a new coach, a couple of new assistants and probably a new CEO with some corporate credibility (not a membership massager) to revitalise the place.
Agree. Giving time can’t be infinite. I didn’t even consider going to the game yesterday, and didn’t watch it! This is from a family that used to make every effort to get to every game. I have sat through a lot of painful games including many last year. We just cannot do it again. And before anyone says through good times and bad and that we should be ashamed to call ourselves supporters and not even going, we’re 20+ year members. Our children cry at the thought of going. Yes they should harden up but reality is, it’s not enjoyable to watch loss after loss after loss year after year.
Almost 1/3 of our playing list, and a good portion of our weekly team, are either 1st years or players in their 2nd year blues!
You only need one or two each week who are not competitive and it rips your team apart!
I didn't see one shepherd yesterday, not one shepherd of any value! The Aints followed the Norp blueprint and brought physical pressure knowing full well we'd fold! The problem is recruiting issue!
FFS, SoJ looked like the only player trying to physically pressure the opposition and he can barely keep up with them!
A massive tell is the faces of the players at 1/2-time, go back to the replay and watch them with their line coaches, they look confused, that tells me they are being way over-coached!
Yes, all true, but the head hunters are out in force, and they won't rest until they claim a scalp. And one in particular.
The real world works that way, people are accountable.
That said, what time frame would you give Bolton?
Say to get 10 wins in a year.
I would have thought the expectation was we would win 6-8 games this year.
It's interesting, fans wanted Simmo back like he was a miracle cure, yesterday he was obviously the disease!
I too would hate any coach naming specific individuals in a post game interview... that's left to internal discussions.
But are we really better? The ladder position suggests otherwise.
But (and though this was not on Bolton's watch) think of Robinson and Betts still with the club. We sold ourselves into mediocrity. Same with Waite despite the fact he's now retired.
This obsession with youth gives us little grounding. Those clearances for little return or salary cap impact were beyond dumb.
Almost 1/3 of our playing list, and a good portion of our weekly team, are either 1st years or players in their 2nd year blues!
You only need one or two each week who are not competitive and it rips your team apart!
I didn't see one shepherd yesterday, not one shepherd of any value! The Aints followed the Norp blueprint and brought physical pressure knowing full well we'd fold! The problem is recruiting issue!
FFS, SoJ looked like the only player trying to physically pressure the opposition and he can barely keep up with them!
A massive tell is the faces of the players at 1/2-time, go back to the replay and watch them with their line coaches, they look confused, that tells me they are being way over-coached!
We had 4 players in their first or second year at AFL level.
Walsh, Gibbons, Stocker and Dow.
Yes, all true, but the head hunters are out in force, and they won't rest until they claim a scalp. And one in particular.
Update: 4 wins from 42, 1-9.
At this point you must admit the head coach need changing. A look yesterday shows he has no idea. He certainly doesn't seem to have the players playing for him. It's at the point now of being able to admit you are wrong.
The real world works that way, people are accountable.
That said, what time frame would you give Bolton?
Say to get 10 wins in a year.
I would have thought the expectation was we would win 6-8 games this year.
If we stick with Bolton, make some changes to the assistants, and a couple of other things wrt the list, I'd be hoping for 6-8 wins next year, and 10 in 2021.
Yesterday was the first time in ages we flew the flag, and even then it was because we were shamed into it. A cultural shift like that, plus the maturing of the list (not just years in the system, but also games played), cohesion etc. takes time. Also, Bolton has been coaching a brand new list every season.
The Hawks -Ess line in the sand game (R11, 2004) took time to bear fruit - in that game the Hawks still got smacked by 74 points, and finished 2nd last. Next season, they finished 3rd last, and lost by 2 points in R3, then won in R20 by 13 points. And then won the next ?? 9, 10 or whatever it was.
These things take time, a commodity which people simply won't give.
I laugh when I hear Maher saying the word on the street is that Bolton is stubborn. The same set of personal characteristics get different names depending on the success of the person. So Bolton (unsuccessful) is stubborn- Clarkson (successful) is uncompromising.
We had 4 players in their first or second year at AFL level.
Walsh, Gibbons, Stocker and Dow.
Walsh is always in our best I mean wtf does that show!??
Update: 4 wins from 42, 1-9.
At this point you must admit the head coach need changing. A look yesterday shows he has no idea. He certainly doesn't seem to have the players playing for him. It's at the point now of being able to admit you are wrong.
Spot on and therein lies a big, big problem, it's the architects of this strategic plan who have to admit that their plan is a failure - ample evidence abounds for the objective of this world, but once again we are reminded that you can never underestimate the power of denial.
The hubris of Mark Loguidice and Brendon Bolton is on show and it aint pretty... (reminiscent of a now former Labor leader in very recent history... stuck to a strategic plan for 6 years - admirable, but also curiously stupid).
Walsh is always in our best I mean wtf does that show!??
We made the right choice in keeping pick 1 and the right selection in Walsh?
Bolton yesterday:
"But you can see very clearly, us as a club, we've got a strategic plan. Players understand that as well. We're unified in that and we're working really hard. We, as a club, are not being dictated to by the outside. We've got our plan. The board, (president) Mark LoGiudice, myself, (CEO) Cain Liddle, (list manager) Stephen Silvagni, (football boss) Brad Lloyd, the playing group … they're all across it.
We've got this plan that we're sticking to and we're unified on it."
My response:
"However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results."
(a quote commonly attributed to Winston Churchill)
Walsh is always in our best I mean wtf does that show!??
I think it shows he has more drive than SPS, Fisher, Dow and Cunningham.
Those 4 need an absolute rocket.
They do not get to enough contests.
They don't work together, shepherding or blocking.
Clarkson is easily the most creative and adaptable coach in the system. Look how he dismantled GWS 2 weeks ago.
For some reason he is able to put forward a plan and his troops adhere to it. Who the hell knows why and how he can do it while others can't. Is it the message? The way it's delivered? The respect he commands? Or the players?
Compare that to our kick outs yesterday. Reiwoldt made the point on SEN this morning that we were setup for a long kick down the middle but the kickers chose the dinky sideways plays which were easily coralled and the ball then turned over.
Scared to win.
Yes, all true, but the head hunters are out in force, and they won't rest until they claim a scalp. And one in particular.
I understand how you feel Paul, you've been rock solid.
The questions is though...
Do we change nothing and just hope we work our way through it?
It's probably reaching the point where that's not an option.
And there might be a few scalps on the lance.
What's happening right at the moment isn't helping advance the club, it's actually damaging.
Folks aren't being swayed by the talk, they're being influenced by what they see before them on the ground and in results.
People are starting to turn away, passionate supporters who have lost faith in the direction are stating that they're not watching or not attending games.
We're losing generations.
If you're a 10 or 11 year old you wouldn't remember the last time we were any good.
If you're 25 or under you probably wouldn't remember the last time we were great.
That's not just the fault of the current administration but unless they turn it around they will just be another chapter in the sad saga...potentially the saddest because they've made the greatest investment.
While there's life there's hope but there are many things that need action now.
Bolton yesterday:
"But you can see very clearly, us as a club, we've got a strategic plan. Players understand that as well. We're unified in that and we're working really hard. We, as a club, are not being dictated to by the outside. We've got our plan. The board, (president) Mark LoGiudice, myself, (CEO) Cain Liddle, (list manager) Stephen Silvagni, (football boss) Brad Lloyd, the playing group … they're all across it.
We've got this plan that we're sticking to and we're unified on it."
My response:
"However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results."
(a quote commonly attributed to Winston Churchill)
'Strategic Plan,' it sounds so strong, so authoritative, so in control and all-knowing... you kind of want to fall to your knees and worship the very sound of those two words together. Well, truth is, in reality, many, many, many well thought out 'Strategic Plans' fail, some badly. Smart folks, in a rapidly changing world, adapt, alter and change (oh no, the word 'change'... to be feared and loathed by the fearful) their strategic plan to accommodate the changing landscape. But when there is arrogance and stubbornness you won't find change.
Bolton yesterday:
"But you can see very clearly, us as a club, we've got a strategic plan. Players understand that as well. We're unified in that and we're working really hard. We, as a club, are not being dictated to by the outside. We've got our plan. The board, (president) Mark LoGiudice, myself, (CEO) Cain Liddle, (list manager) Stephen Silvagni, (football boss) Brad Lloyd, the playing group … they're all across it.
We've got this plan that we're sticking to and we're unified on it."
My response:
"However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results."
(a quote commonly attributed to Winston Churchill)
8)
I understand how you feel Paul, you've been rock solid.
The questions is though...
Do we change nothing and just hope we work our way through it?
It's probably reaching the point where that's not an option.
And there might be a few scalps on the lance.
What's happening right at the moment isn't helping advance the club, it's actually damaging.
Folks aren't being swayed by the talk, they're being influenced by what they see before them on the ground and in results.
People are starting to turn away, passionate supporters who have lost faith in the direction are stating that they're not watching or not attending games.
We're losing generations.
If you're a 10 or 11 year old you wouldn't remember the last time we were any good.
If you're 25 or under you probably wouldn't remember the last time we were great.
That's not just the fault of the current administration but unless they turn it around they will just be another chapter in the sad saga...potentially the saddest because they've made the greatest investment.
While there's life there's hope but there are many things that need action now.
Yes, I have been rock solid, and also boring and repetitious :
- conduct a full audit /review just like the Pies and Tigers
- understand the process in a holistic and contextual manner
- don't repeat the mistakes of the past
My guess is that such an audit review will make similar recommendations to the other clubs. Change up the Assistant coaches, maybe also Bolton needs to fine tune some of his methods, and stick with the plan.
Those of you who are interested, do a google search for "Hardwick sacked" and do another search for "Buckley sacked". Fun times.
And just a little teaser for you :
https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/premiership-coach-mark-thompson-offers-advice-to-nathan-buckley-reflects-on-his-own-hardships/news-story/411cc222d266db3ca1350d73d0a02d5f
Everyone is smart in retrospect. We had eleven players who came out of the past four drafts in the team yesterday. This coming off four drafts where we have turned over a third to a quarter of our list. There is a lack of continuity in the team which has to be expected and is on display most weeks. This is the plan the Club laid out and is sticking to. I think they are twelve months behind where they wanted to be and I think they have the ingredients of a very good team but they need time to become a team. I like BB press conferences, I am not sure what people want him to say. They have a plan. I dont see or hear what the alternative is.
I think we need some hungry half forwards, Pickett is a big loss, and we need pace out of the backline, which explains Garlett being developed for down back, we also need another young ruckman to develop.
It is a five-year plan and people need to do more than say everything is rubbish, they need to articulate what they think needs to be done, how it would be implemented and how it is a better process than what is happening now.
I thought Cuningham after a break, shower that with some continuity of game time, he’s the real deal and for all the criticism of Dow, there are 8-10 passages of play where he showed some real class. Tackling (lack of physical strength) is poor but will come in time and shots at goal are ‘Casboult like’ but he’s young enough, with the right education, to fix that up. He just needs time and he will come good. How long did a skinny Cotchin take??
Rumour has it that the Adelaide Football Club is about to strike a Memorial Plaque in honour of the significant gift they're soon to receive from the Carlton Football Club - the number 1 draft pick in the 2019 draft.
As if giving them Eddie wasn't enough. Does our generosity know no bounds?
;) >:D
Yes, I have been rock solid, and also boring and repetitious :
- conduct a full audit /review just like the Pies and Tigers
- understand the process in a holistic and contextual manner
- don't repeat the mistakes of the past
My guess is that such an audit review will make similar recommendations to the other clubs. Change up the Assistant coaches, maybe also Bolton needs to fine tune some of his methods, and stick with the plan.
Those of you who are interested, do a google search for "Hardwick sacked" and do another search for "Buckley sacked". Fun times.
And just a little teaser for you :
https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/premiership-coach-mark-thompson-offers-advice-to-nathan-buckley-reflects-on-his-own-hardships/news-story/411cc222d266db3ca1350d73d0a02d5f
Fair enough
That's action...will it happen?
Everyone is smart in retrospect. We had eleven players who came out of the past four drafts in the team yesterday. This coming off four drafts where we have turned over a third to a quarter of our list. There is a lack of continuity in the team which has to be expected and is on display most weeks. This is the plan the Club laid out and is sticking to. I think they are twelve months behind where they wanted to be and I think they have the ingredients of a very good team but they need time to become a team. I like BB press conferences, I am not sure what people want him to say. They have a plan. I dont see or hear what the alternative is.
I think we need some hungry half forwards, Pickett is a big loss, and we need pace out of the backline, which explains Garlett being developed for down back, we also need another young ruckman to develop.
It is a five-year plan and people need to do more than say everything is rubbish, they need to articulate what they think needs to be done, how it would be implemented and how it is a better process than what is happening now.
BB is a good salesman.
Strategic plans are meant to demonstrate progress. The club has stated, clearly, that there was an expectation to be winning games this year. We're not winning games... strategic plan broken. But it can be fixed.
'Strategic Plan,' it sounds so strong, so authoritative, so in control and all-knowing... you kind of want to fall to your knees and worship the very sound of those two words together. Well, truth is, in reality, many, many, many well thought out 'Strategic Plans' fail, some badly. Smart folks, in a rapidly changing world, adapt, alter and change (oh no, the word 'change'... to be feared and loathed by the fearful) their strategic plan to accommodate the changing landscape. But when there is arrogance and stubbornness you won't find change.
Labor had a strategic plan.
Didn’t listen, didn’t change, didn’t win
Rumour has it that the Adelaide Football Club is about to strike a Memorial Plaque in honour of the significant gift they're soon to receive from the Carlton Football Club - the number 1 draft pick in the 2019 draft.
As if giving them Eddie wasn't enough. Does our generosity know no bounds?
;) >:D
We're the gift that keeps giving.
Rumour has it that the Adelaide Football Club is about to strike a Memorial Plaque in honour of the significant gift they're soon to receive from the Carlton Football Club - the number 1 draft pick in the 2019 draft.
As if giving them Eddie wasn't enough. Does our generosity know no bounds?
;) >:D
Yeah, really couldn't give a jatz about what we've given them. good luck to them. Personally, not sure what's going on at that club but I think they've got some problems there so a no.1 won't help. Happy with Stocker's output to date and let's face it baring Walsh our no.1 picks of years gone by haven't really been super successful for one reason or another. We still get a 1st rounder maybe we score another Charlie or Harry?
Yeah, really couldn't give a jatz about what we've given them. good luck to them. Personally, not sure what's going on at that club but I think they've got some problems there so a no.1 won't help. Happy with Stocker's output to date and let's face it baring Walsh our no.1 picks of years gone by haven't really been super successful for one reason or another. We still get a 1st rounder maybe we score another Charlie or Harry?
Agreed, more high draft picks aren't going to fix us....
I’ve been saying it for two years. The head coach doesn’t have a clue.
Can anyone let alone Bolton explain the game plan?
Whomever the skills coach is or coaches are, they should be sacked today.
Our players lack basic skills, and cannot hit targets.
MacKay studiously avoids kicking with his right foot. Why doesn’t he spend an hour every training session doing nothing other than practice kicking with his right foot. Simmo kearnt how to do it, Cripps can kick with his left. This is a real weakness in Mackays game and has not been addressed in 4 years.
His first shot set for goal said it all to me about the total lack of coaching and teaching at the club. Like Buddy, MacKay tends to run out in an arc as he shoots for goal. He was on a slight angle to the right of the right goal post. Had he been coached and taught well, he would have aimed for somewhere between the centre of the goals and left goal post which would then have allowed for the ball angling across towards the right. He kicks the goal if he does that. Instead he ran out in an arc to his left as he does, and kicked towards the right hand goal post and the ball angled right and he missed.
Is anyone spending time with paddy Dow on his kicking and lack of tackling ability.
The list goes on and on.
The players supposedly had this private
Soul searching meeting. Said
E from Cripps, Simmons and Ed Curnow, the rest are at this point in time a bunch of skill-less hacks, who can’t hit a target, can’t tackle, and among other things, can’t make a decision on the field that puts us at an advantage against our opponents.
So, what should happen?
The coach should immediately be replaced and if it wasn’t going to cause massive disruption, every other coach should go with him. But it would do you can’t sack them all now.
The president and those on the board who hired Bolton should immediately resign, especially Judd.
He’s the so called Director of football. What the hell does he do
there!!
Bolton says they are all on the same page, they know where they are going they are all together in this bla bla bla.
I know where they are going.
They are going to the wooden spoon, and a probable loss of 20,000 members who won’t sign up to another year in 2020 of this rubbish.
At the very least, sack Bolton this week, appoint Scott who has at least played the game at the highest level and knows what it takes to win a flag and will have some sort of a game plan that the players will understand and can follow.
If we keep going like this till the bye round, we are headed for oblivion and another 5 years at the bottom.
We need to run that poll again.
It's interesting, fans wanted Simmo back like he was a miracle cure, yesterday he was obviously the disease!
Agree.
Same applies for 3/4s of our list, when blokes are injured we use them as an excuse, when they are back in and don't perform as the savior we though they were, we demand they are dropped for the bloke in the 2s who all of sudden looks amazing and is unfairly not getting a game. ::)
ITs ground hog day.
Our list build is out of balance way too many kids and a gapping hole of senior reliable players in the 70-120 game category. SOS is the man that should be in the gun more then anyone IMO.
Don't care of the excuses why he couldn't attract these sorts...the fact is he couldn't get them in the door and we are suffering bigtime as a result. That is the very reason Brisbane's rebuild is so far ahead of ours.
It was his job and he failed badly.
Rumour has it that the Adelaide Football Club is about to strike a Memorial Plaque in honour of the significant gift they're soon to receive from the Carlton Football Club - the number 1 draft pick in the 2019 draft.
As if giving them Eddie wasn't enough. Does our generosity know no bounds?
;) >:D
::) We need to stop focusing on this as its not that much of an issue in the scheme of things.
Betts wanted to leave for Adelaide - we didn't give him away.
Yes losing Pick 1 next year hurts a little bit but Stocker will be very good, is already in the system and we still get their first rounder.
And surely we have won out in both the Menzel and Gibbs trades?
I'd be more concerned about our McGovern trade. Could be a while before he starts to show enough to justify what we paid for him and by then he will be headed West.
As for yesterday, as many have said we looked lost and clueless. Either the game plan is downright awful or it is too complicated for the players to grasp. And there never seems to be any Plan B when the opposition works us out or shuts us down. All comes down to coaching which is why something needs to be done ASAP. Certainly doesn't help when players miss easy targets but correct structure can help with that too.
I remain astonished that BB can claim 'unified'... you only need look at the players to see there aint no unity or understanding. BB is trying to sell us that you can pick up a turd by the clean end!
Fair enough
That's action...will it happen?
I hope so.
Just a further comment on that players meeting.
As I said previously, aside from Cripps Simmo and Ed C the rest either lack foot and hand skills, decision making ability, or like Charlie C move in and out of the game, or totally lack the ability to stick a tackle. Walsh will be a star and hopefully will keep playing for our club. Fisher is a waste of space who always, if he gets the ball wants to hand it off and won’t kick. None of them will take responsibility for having a shot at goal even if they are 25 metres out.
Do you had this what are effectively aside from a few, a rabble, yelling at each other and telling a few home truths.
Well, we all saw the result. No improvement.
For those who say we were in the game, let’s be intellectually honest.
How much do you think Geelong would have slaughtered us by if we had played them yesterday performing the same way we did against the Saints.
I defy any player including the captain to provide me with a simple two minute video which clearly and concisely explains precisely what game plan they are supposed to be implementing.
I am prepared to forgive a lot. I went through this sort of drought during the 1950’s and 60’s until Barrasi took us to the top.
So I have been there before.
We have The nucleus of a decent side. Give them a game plan they can follow, hone their skills, and for God’s sake teach them how to
tackle, and above all provide them with a coach who has at least a proven track record, Scott took the kangas to two preliminary finals with a good ordinary team as jack dyer would have called them, and we might actually progress.
We still hear the same old claptrap on this forum, sack the coach, sack the players, sack the President, sack the Board sack the staff, sack the assistant coaches, every deal is a dud, nobody is any good, the world is woeful, everyone is against us, they should have listened to me. What is the alternative.
We have the fundamentals of a very good list, the club is an very good shape off the field, and they have a plan that they are sticking to.
Tell me the alternative, who, what, when, where, how and why. Give me the details.
Beat me to it Big Nic. I've been a supporter since 1981 and a member for 25 years but I've just about had enough of this crap getting served up week after week. No disrespect to St Kilda but they're ordinary and yet they made us look stupid at times. Too often they ran it from one end to the other with good disposal and picked off unmarked men in their forward line at will....if they'd kick straight we wouldn't have been anywhere near them. They were missing arguably their best defenders in Carlisle, Roberton and Geary and yet with three key forwards we couldn't hit a target if we tried. Charlie worked hard up the ground and probably his best game for the season but if we're plugging holes in the middle by using him up the ground it defeats the purpose.
You can sugar coat it all you like but we're bottom of the ladder (again), destined for the wooden spoon (again) and this year we won't even have the number 1 pick to look forward to. You're kidding yourself if you think we've progressed in the last 3 years. Our skills are absolutely deplorable and turnovers kill us week after week. If you're brutally honest, there's probably 3 blokes on our list at the moment (excluding Docherty who's out again) that would get a game at another club right now....Cripps, Walsh, McKay.
How many times this year has Dow butchered a shot at goal at key moments in games? I'm sick of hearing about "elite runner", "great endurance" and "breakaway speed" when they talk about draftees. If you can't do the most basic thing in the game, kick the footy, then you can have all the running ability in the world and you'll be good at chasing an opponent and not much else. I hope I'm wrong, but we'll look back in 3 or 4 years on the 2017 draft as another one that we slaughtered.
I was taken with Bolton initially and his youthful enthusiasm and honesty but we've stalled, our young players are not coming on (Walsh excluded) and for the life of me I can't work out our game plan. In defence we're like Richmond of about 6 or 7 years ago where opponents just waited for the poor skills and decision making to eventually show through and they'd turn it over trying to kick short, backwards and sideways. If Thomas and Simpson are all we've got to keep a cool head down back then we're in strife. Newman showed some fight yesterday but even he turned it over numerous times.
Agree with EB's earlier comment about Kreuzer. He's been a warrior for us but he looked tired and cumbersome yesterday against a smaller/inexperienced opponent. Like many, for weeks I was calling for Kennedy to be in there to help Cripps but he showed us exactly why he hasn't been in there....slow and ineffective. Take Cripps and Walsh out of that midfield and at the moment we've got nothing. SPS/Fisher/Dow etc just don't do anywhere near enough. Yes they're young, but so is Walsh...so is Cripps.
This mid-season draft is a free hit of sorts but we're gonna blow another chance with Deluca. There's a reason he only played 4 games in 3 years with Fremantle.....slow and not big enough.
I'm not sure how many more weeks Bolton has got left but another bad loss this week and we need to be put out of our misery.
We still hear the same old claptrap on this forum, sack the coach, sack the players, sack the President, sack the Board sack the staff, sack the assistant coaches, every deal is a dud, nobody is any good, the world is woeful, everyone is against us, they should have listened to me. What is the alternative.
We have the fundamentals of a very good list, the club is an very good shape off the field, and they have a plan that they are sticking to.
Tell me the alternative, who, what, when, where, how and why. Give me the details.
This.
Beat me to it Big Nic. I've been a supporter since 1981 and a member for 25 years but I've just about had enough of this crap getting served up week after week. No disrespect to St Kilda but they're ordinary and yet they made us look stupid at times. Too often they ran it from one end to the other with good disposal and picked off unmarked men in their forward line at will....if they'd kick straight we wouldn't have been anywhere near them. They were missing arguably their best defenders in Carlisle, Roberton and Geary and yet with three key forwards we couldn't hit a target if we tried. Charlie worked hard up the ground and probably his best game for the season but if we're plugging holes in the middle by using him up the ground it defeats the purpose.
You can sugar coat it all you like but we're bottom of the ladder (again), destined for the wooden spoon (again) and this year we won't even have the number 1 pick to look forward to. You're kidding yourself if you think we've progressed in the last 3 years. Our skills are absolutely deplorable and turnovers kill us week after week. If you're brutally honest, there's probably 3 blokes on our list at the moment (excluding Docherty who's out again) that would get a game at another club right now....Cripps, Walsh, McKay.
How many times this year has Dow butchered a shot at goal at key moments in games? I'm sick of hearing about "elite runner", "great endurance" and "breakaway speed" when they talk about draftees. If you can't do the most basic thing in the game, kick the footy, then you can have all the running ability in the world and you'll be good at chasing an opponent and not much else. I hope I'm wrong, but we'll look back in 3 or 4 years on the 2017 draft as another one that we slaughtered.
I was taken with Bolton initially and his youthful enthusiasm and honesty but we've stalled, our young players are not coming on (Walsh excluded) and for the life of me I can't work out our game plan. In defence we're like Richmond of about 6 or 7 years ago where opponents just waited for the poor skills and decision making to eventually show through and they'd turn it over trying to kick short, backwards and sideways. If Thomas and Simpson are all we've got to keep a cool head down back then we're in strife. Newman showed some fight yesterday but even he turned it over numerous times.
Agree with EB's earlier comment about Kreuzer. He's been a warrior for us but he looked tired and cumbersome yesterday against a smaller/inexperienced opponent. Like many, for weeks I was calling for Kennedy to be in there to help Cripps but he showed us exactly why he hasn't been in there....slow and ineffective. Take Cripps and Walsh out of that midfield and at the moment we've got nothing. SPS/Fisher/Dow etc just don't do anywhere near enough. Yes they're young, but so is Walsh...so is Cripps.
This mid-season draft is a free hit of sorts but we're gonna blow another chance with Deluca. There's a reason he only played 4 games in 3 years with Fremantle.....slow and not big enough.
I'm not sure how many more weeks Bolton has got left but another bad loss this week and we need to be put out of our misery.
Forget the games this season.
It was halfway through the third quarter that the penny dropped for me that yesterdays game was going to be a poor outcome win or loss because simply we played terribly and still almost won.
The missed shots by Dow are all part of a learning curve. Each time he gets that opportunity he gets the chance to learn from it and fix it. This time he missed and actually was a better player for the rest of that game.
The reason why we keep stumbling is that the kids are learning. Too much, too quickly. Stick with them. This ride is a bumpy one. It's two years away from bearing fruit, and next year is going to be a lot more fun.
Everyone is smart in retrospect. We had eleven players who came out of the past four drafts in the team yesterday. This coming off four drafts where we have turned over a third to a quarter of our list. There is a lack of continuity in the team which has to be expected and is on display most weeks. This is the plan the Club laid out and is sticking to. I think they are twelve months behind where they wanted to be and I think they have the ingredients of a very good team but they need time to become a team. I like BB press conferences, I am not sure what people want him to say. They have a plan. I dont see or hear what the alternative is.
I think we need some hungry half forwards, Pickett is a big loss, and we need pace out of the backline, which explains Garlett being developed for down back, we also need another young ruckman to develop.
It is a five-year plan and people need to do more than say everything is rubbish, they need to articulate what they think needs to be done, how it would be implemented and how it is a better process than what is happening now.
Exactly right. Where is their 'plan'?
Agreed, more high draft picks aren't going to fix us....
Agreed, and I think Stocker is showing some real class and will surprise a few people over the journey. I like him a lot from what I have seen.
How many times this year has Dow butchered a shot at goal at key moments in games? I'm sick of hearing about "elite runner", "great endurance" and "breakaway speed" when they talk about draftees. If you can't do the most basic thing in the game, kick the footy, then you can have all the running ability in the world and you'll be good at chasing an opponent and not much else. I hope I'm wrong, but we'll look back in 3 or 4 years on the 2017 draft as another one that we slaughtered.
I was taken with Bolton initially and his youthful enthusiasm and honesty but we've stalled, our young players are not coming on (Walsh excluded) and for the life of me I can't work out our game plan. In defence we're like Richmond of about 6 or 7 years ago where opponents just waited for the poor skills and decision making to eventually show through and they'd turn it over trying to kick short, backwards and sideways. If Thomas and Simpson are all we've got to keep a cool head down back then we're in strife. Newman showed some fight yesterday but even he turned it over numerous times.
Agree with EB's earlier comment about Kreuzer. He's been a warrior for us but he looked tired and cumbersome yesterday against a smaller/inexperienced opponent. Like many, for weeks I was calling for Kennedy to be in there to help Cripps but he showed us exactly why he hasn't been in there....slow and ineffective. Take Cripps and Walsh out of that midfield and at the moment we've got nothing. SPS/Fisher/Dow etc just don't do anywhere near enough. Yes they're young, but so is Walsh...so is Cripps.
1. Dow should have been back in the 2s weeks ago - he's lost his way....
2. BB - he really does need to explain the game plan...
3. Kreuzer looked shot.
4. Kennedy - went ok early - first game back, he'll be better for the run - miles ahead of LOB and Setterfield presently.
5. SPS and Fisher need rockets, big ones....lots of behind the play jogging is apparent.
Agreed, and I think Stocker is showing some real class and will surprise a few people over the journey. I like him a lot from what I have seen.
Yes, he's got some ticker too - great foot skills. Will be a player.
Agree on Stocker....has a bit of mongrel in him too. Commentators were blasting Newman yesterday for conceding a free kick to Long but I don't mind that.....Long is soft and took a dive and typical of the umpires to pick up on that but not the other obvious free kicks that we didn't get.
Can't over-estimate how much we've missed Jones in recent weeks too. Weitering looked lost at times yesterday and I'm still not sure what role Marchbank plays for us. For mine, Casboult is worth perservering with down back.
::) We need to stop focusing on this as its not that much of an issue in the scheme of things.
Betts wanted to leave for Adelaide - we didn't give him away. [/quote
That's certainly not my memory of the events. Yes, he asked for bigger dollars and would have stayed had we agreed. Stupidly, we didn't
I too would hate any coach naming specific individuals in a post game interview... that's left to internal discussions.
But are we really better? The ladder position suggests otherwise.
But (and though this was not on Bolton's watch) think of Robinson and Betts still with the club. We sold ourselves into mediocrity. Same with Waite despite the fact he's now retired.
This obsession with youth gives us little grounding. Those clearances for little return or salary cap impact were beyond dumb.
Dropping players and naming them to the media are both levers the coach can pull to set the expectations and hold them accountable. BB probably doesn't do it to protect them as most are young. Which probably feeds into the mentality of the players a little bit that they aren't men yet and therefore the expectations aren't as high as other clubs.
By far the best football we have played this year was against the Dogs and the first half against Hawthorn. The reason? One of thee rare times we have been allowed to just take the game on. Funnily, we were very efficient moving thee ball into the F50, and surprise, surprise, our skills were so much better, as they are when you can kick to players in space rather than having to thread a needle through a million players. Our kids have had the flair knocked out of them and it is wrecking their confidence.
A good coach will look at his list and build a game plan around it. Bolton is not one of those coaches and needs to go. A very poor coach.
Agree on Stocker....has a bit of mongrel in him too. Commentators were blasting Newman yesterday for conceding a free kick to Long but I don't mind that.....Long is soft and took a dive and typical of the umpires to pick up on that but not the other obvious free kicks that we didn't get.
Can't over-estimate how much we've missed Jones in recent weeks too. Weitering looked lost at times yesterday and I'm still not sure what role Marchbank plays for us. For mine, Casboult is worth perservering with down back.
Marchbank is like Weitering last year, totally confused at to his role. Another failure of coaching.
Levi's surprised me down back. Never thought it was in him bit he has been very good. Interesting to see what happens when Jones come back. Can't play them all.
I'm still sticking fat with the coach until the end of 2019. Our list is still young, lots of new players, with not much continuity together over a number of seasons.
However, we are shizen, and we should be better than we are. There's enough talent, and there's enough experience that we should be win 5 games minimum this season. The clock is ticking.
The Stocker trade was a good move if you ask me, even though it's looking like it will now blow up in our faces. Most decisions are easy to pick apart in retrospect. Very few of us would have expected 1-9 at this stage. And anyway - I know you do have to factor in what we will end up giving away, but in a way it is irrelevant. All that matters is what we get back in return, because that is what we get, it really doesn't matter what the crows get. We get Stocker and pick 12 (at this stage) for our future first rounder. There are so many ifs and whatifs, it's almost impossible to predict how this will pan out. In 2-3 years time Stocker might be one of the best mids in the game, and the crows likely pick1 (yes, it does hurt a little to type that) might be a waste of space who never realises his potential. No risk, no reward.
laj....probably horses for courses with Levi but if they've got 3 tall forwards and Jones is available, then Marchbank goes out I reckon. Essendon went too big on the weekend in the wet and are without Daniher. They'll lose Stringer and Shiel for this week and for now, I'll take all the help we can get!!!
Rumour has it that the Adelaide Football Club is about to strike a Memorial Plaque in honour of the significant gift they're soon to receive from the Carlton Football Club - the number 1 draft pick in the 2019 draft.
As if giving them Eddie wasn't enough. Does our generosity know no bounds?
;) >:D
Big chance to land Grundy....
I'm still sticking fat with the coach until the end of 2019. Our list is still young, lots of new players, with not much continuity together over a number of seasons.
However, we are shizen, and we should be better than we are. There's enough talent, and there's enough experience that we should be win 5 games minimum this season. The clock is ticking.
The Stocker trade was a good move if you ask me, even though it's looking like it will now blow up in our faces. Most decisions are easy to pick apart in retrospect. Very few of us would have expected 1-9 at this stage. And anyway - I know you do have to factor in what we will end up giving away, but in a way it is irrelevant. All that matters is what we get back in return, because that is what we get, it really doesn't matter what the crows get. We get Stocker and pick 12 (at this stage) for our future first rounder. There are so many ifs and what ifs, it's almost impossible to predict how this will pan out. In 2-3 years time Stocker might be one of the best mids in the game, and the crows likely pick1 (yes, it does hurt a little to type that) might be a waste of space who never realises his potential. No risk, no reward.
Thing with the swap of picks, remember we got Adelaide's first pick AND Stocker. Not such a bad thing. We'll win the trade, providing we use Adelaide's pick well, just by nowhere near as much as we expected. Other good thing, we don't have the pressure of have to hold the pick 1, we can use Adelaide's pick to trade for a good player.
We still hear the same old claptrap on this forum, sack the coach, sack the players, sack the President, sack the Board sack the staff, sack the assistant coaches, every deal is a dud, nobody is any good, the world is woeful, everyone is against us, they should have listened to me. What is the alternative.
We have the fundamentals of a very good list, the club is an very good shape off the field, and they have a plan that they are sticking to.
Tell me the alternative, who, what, when, where, how and why. Give me the details.
How 'bout you explaining the plan?
Big chance to land Grundy....
why would the Pies let Grundy go....he's their best player by some margin.
We still hear the same old claptrap on this forum, sack the coach, sack the players, sack the President, sack the Board sack the staff, sack the assistant coaches, every deal is a dud, nobody is any good, the world is woeful, everyone is against us, they should have listened to me. What is the alternative.
We have the fundamentals of a very good list, the club is an very good shape off the field, and they have a plan that they are sticking to.
Tell me the alternative, who, what, when, where, how and why. Give me the details.
4 wins from 41, 1-9. the plan isn't working.
First thing is to let the players take the game on. Our 6 best qtrs of football in years (Dogs, 1st half against Hawthorn) happened because the players were able to do that. We looked a very classy, skilled side. Get back to it. A good coach will work a plan around the list, a $hit coach like Bolton is stuck to his plan and stifled the living $hit out of them and smashing their confidence. Do that, start winning games, and much of the rest will look after itself.
Free Agent I think Fly.....if Adelaide offer a monster deal and Grundy chooses it he'll go.....clubs rarely refuse to match it if they know a player wants to leave. Only thing is that the Pies would be spewing if they win the flag and lost Grundy....compensation pick wouldn't be anywhere near what he's worth.
why would the Pies let Grundy go....he's their best player by some margin.
He's already said he is looking to return to Adelaide one day soon. Whether that is next year is another matter.
I'm with you Laj. It looks more like Bolton has lost the players. A couple of times yesterday on TV you could see the frustration on Cripps' face on the bench arguing with Docherty.
why would the Pies let Grundy go....he's their best player by some margin.
Free agency coming up in another year....and talk of massive dollars to keep him. You look at the Pies list and thats
going to be a full salary cap. Grundy has stated he wants to go back to SA at some stage to complete his career.
Best time to strike for Crows is now with our No 1 pick and Pies will get best value for Grundy..
Anderson and Rowell are rated better than Walsh by many in the upcoming draft...
Crows will be trying hard given Jacobs is nearing the end..
How 'bout you explaining the plan?
And there you have it, exactly.
Let the members in on what this strategic plan is. Or is it in tatters, hence the secrecy? Well into the fourth year and on-field is worse. Is this a part of the strategic plan?
I'm with you Laj. It looks more like Bolton has lost the players. A couple of times yesterday on TV you could see the frustration on Cripps' face on the bench arguing with Docherty.
Saw the same thing (just another of the poor body language signals we've all gotten used to). If you're looking for 'disconnect' it would seem the place is full of it.
I'm with you Laj. It looks more like Bolton has lost the players. A couple of times yesterday on TV you could see the frustration on Cripps' face on the bench arguing with Docherty.
Well we made Cripps captain, if it was the wrong choice what do we do now?
Big chance to land Grundy....
Wouldn't that be the ultimate irony. Adelaide trade our pick 1 to get Grundy and Rottingwood (the arch enemy) get pick 1 courtesy of the CFC.
Wouldn't that be the ultimate irony. Adelaide trade our pick 1 to get Grundy and Rottingwood (the arch enemy) get pick 1 courtesy of the CFC.
When you trade advanced picks you just have to wear whatever pans out, Nostradamus was a nobody!
Wouldn't that be the ultimate irony. Adelaide trade our pick 1 to get Grundy and Rottingwood (the arch enemy) get pick 1 courtesy of the CFC.
trying to be positive....
The pies would rather keep Grundy than get pick 1 in my mind. He's the best ruck in the comp and their most important player, and could potentially cost them a flag in the next few years if he departs. They are fair and square in their window, and he's a massive reason.
We get Stocker and another crack at a first rounder, who combined might be more valuable than pick 1. We could easily win this one still.
The crows - well - they just win. Try as I might I can't see how they lose this one. I have decided not to waste my energy on what they get out of it, all that matters is what we get.
trying to be positive....
The pies would rather keep Grundy than get pick 1 in my mind. He's the best ruck in the comp and their most important player, and could potentially cost them a flag in the next few years if he departs. They are fair and square in their window, and he's a massive reason.
We get Stocker and another crack at a first rounder, who combined might be more valuable than pick 1. We could easily win this one still.
The crows - well - they just win. Try as I might I can't see how they lose this one. I have decided not to waste my energy on what they get out of it, all that matters is what we get.
Think Grundy's up for free agency the year after. And he has made no secret of his wish to go back to Adelaide. Maybe it's pick 1 next year, or bugger all the year after. Also up to Collingwood if they think they can win a flag next year (if they don't win this year), then they might think just keep him and take what ever compo they get the year after.
All theory of course.
LP...that wasn't a knock on Cripps and he's the only one with captaincy credentials on our list....by a long, long way. It was more about the fact that the coach and the game plan seem lost on the players at the moment and it's boiling over. If we don't fix it then Cripps will be the next Free Agent we're talking about and no one would begrudge him leaving and heading home to play for someone like West Coast who can offer him the chance to play in a premiership....something we're light years away from. He's busted his @rse for the club since the day he walked in and is virtually carrying us this season.....that's simply not sustainable.
Well we made Cripps captain, if it was the wrong choice what do we do now?
Wrong choice?
HTF is Cripps the wrong choice?
LP...that wasn't a knock on Cripps and he's the only one with captaincy credentials on our list....by a long, long way. It was more about the fact that the coach and the game plan seem lost on the players at the moment and it's boiling over. If we don't fix it then Cripps will be the next Free Agent we're talking about and no one would begrudge him leaving and heading home to play for someone like West Coast who can offer him the chance to play in a premiership....something we're light years away from. He's busted his @rse for the club since the day he walked in and is virtually carrying us this season.....that's simply not sustainable.
A problem we have at the moment is Cripps opponent, they run off him unhindered, and it's very hard for the captain to tell the kids to chase when he's jogging along behind the play pointing! How good he is otherwise makes no difference when they are all playing in survival mode!
I would not be surprised if that was part of the argy-bargy going down on the boundary! Fwiw, in previous games I've seen Simmo and sMurph having similar arguments with Cripps, SPS and Walsh, that appeared to be about a lack of accountability or poor positioning. I gather there was no argy-bargy with SPS yesterday, at least about his tackling!
In my opinion Doc was a clear choice, but I'd have given a player like Weitering or maybe even Jones the dual captaincy or VC! :o
I think we needed a Maxwell type captain, not an Ablett Jnr messiah type captain, the thing is Cripps has nothing more to give as he already gives 100%, and when he's captain it actually detracts from his game! We needed a captain who can tell a kid, one of Cripps team mates, what's what when they don't fly the flag or give Cripps a chop out. At the moment Cripps would actually have to ask for assistance, and there is no way he will do that, he'll just keep bashing himself against the wall!
All we are doing to Cripps is putting him to the torch, and opposition teams know it! So now we've got a bigger problem, how do we fix it without fecking it up?
LP...that wasn't a knock on Cripps and he's the only one with captaincy credentials on our list....by a long, long way. It was more about the fact that the coach and the game plan seem lost on the players at the moment and it's boiling over. If we don't fix it then Cripps will be the next Free Agent we're talking about and no one would begrudge him leaving and heading home to play for someone like West Coast who can offer him the chance to play in a premiership....something we're light years away from. He's busted his @rse for the club since the day he walked in and is virtually carrying us this season.....that's simply not sustainable.
What was this sideline argument about, any ideas?
Micky....i just made an observation how players, including Cripps, look frustrated and he was arguing with Docherty on the bench. The question was asked "we made Cripps captain though". I was just pointing out that I wasn't having a go at Cripps...just more about how there doesn't appear to be a game plan and tensions look to be boiling over. At the moment we've really only got one bloke who can hold his head high across the season and that's probably why we're sitting rock bottom.
A problem we have at the moment is Cripps opponent, they run off him unhindered, and it's very hard for the captain to tell the kids to chase when he's jogging along behind the play pointing! How good he is otherwise makes no difference when they are all playing in survival mode!
I would not be surprised if that was part of the argy-bargy going down on the boundary! Fwiw, in previous games I've seen Simmo and sMurph having similar arguments with Cripps, SPS and Walsh, that appeared to be about a lack of accountability or poor positioning. I gather there was no argy-bargy with SPS yesterday, at least about his tackling!
In my opinion Doc was a clear choice, but I'd have given a player like Weitering or maybe even Jones the dual captaincy or VC! :o
I think we needed a Maxwell type captain, not an Ablett Jnr messiah type captain, the thing is Cripps has nothing more to give as he already gives 100%, and when he's captain it actually detracts from his game! We needed a captain who can tell a kid, one of Cripps team mates, what's what when they don't fly the flag or give Cripps a chop out. At the moment Cripps would actually have to ask for assistance, and there is no way he will do that, he'll just keep bashing himself against the wall!
All we are doing to Cripps is putting him to the torch, and opposition teams know it! So now we've got a bigger problem, how do we fix it without fecking it up?
Murphy questioning Cripps accountability. IF that has ever happened, I think Murphy would get put straight back in his little box
Murphy questioning Cripps accountability. IF that has ever happened, I think Murphy would get put straight back in his little box
Perhaps you were momentarily blinded by rage? ;D
If you watched the replays and observe what is going on in the background you clearly see players like Simmo, sMurph, Ed and Kreuzer giving Cripps and some of the other kids instructions!
Fans forget Cripps is still a relative beginner at AFL and a dead-set newbie as captain!
Perhaps you were momentarily blinded by rage? ;D
If you watched the replays and observe what is going on in the background you clearly see players like Simmo, sMurph, Ed and Kreuzer giving Cripps and some of the other kids instructions!
Fans forget Cripps is still a relative beginner at AFL and a dead-set newbie as captain!
Yep, sure, you can read lips as well as minds.
Reminds me of Greta Thunberg whose mother claims can see carbon dioxide in the air! ROFL.
;)
It's not so hard to decipher when multiple blokes are gesticulating, point fingers and waving arms all at the same players and ground positions. Maybe some fans can read lips! ;D
It's a great example of what you can see when you are not ball watching! ;)
Yep, sure, you can read lips as well as minds.
Ironic for JonHenry to question that, at least video offers some evidence, as opposed to knowledge that sMurph or Gibbs is the cause of all the kids having poisoned weak mindsets when it comes to tackling and physicality! Have they flip top heads?
Ohh I get it, "JonHenry can see that", "it's obvious", while players shown on video franticly gesticulating while apparently abusing or arguing with each other is a lip reading fantasy! ::)
trying to be positive....
The pies would rather keep Grundy than get pick 1 in my mind. He's the best ruck in the comp and their most important player, and could potentially cost them a flag in the next few years if he departs. They are fair and square in their window, and he's a massive reason.
We get Stocker and another crack at a first rounder, who combined might be more valuable than pick 1. We could easily win this one still.
The crows - well - they just win. Try as I might I can't see how they lose this one. I have decided not to waste my energy on what they get out of it, all that matters is what we get.
The crows don't "win" unless they get a 200 game player with their pick.....and even that will depend on how either of our two picks have gone.....which will take a long time to all play out...& I agree with you that it's not worth worrying about.
Capcom, the plan is simple, in 2015 the club admitted it stuffed things up in 2011. Rebuild the club both on and off the field. Fix the finances, re-engage the membership, change the culture of the club and go to the draft and rebuild the playing list. They have fixed the finances, half a million dollar profit despite finishing last, they have re-engaged the membership, 60,000 members, fixed the culture, if you lie to your teammates and to the club, you are out.
They have gone to the draft to rebuild the list. I think they were only planning to go three times to the draft but I think they have realised the problems with the playing list was deeper than they thought, so they went a fourth time, hence why I think they are twelve months behind where they wanted to be. The next stage is to trade in good quality ready made players who will support the development of the quality young players we have on the list.
That is the plan, now tell me the alternative that doesn't start and end with sacking everone.
I must admit I'm losing faith. I've been firmly in the "stay the course" camp, just need patience and it will all come together, just need to give the young guys 40-50 games playing together and it will click into place. Well I'm starting to doubt whether our young guys are as good as I thought they were going to be. We need to show some progress and very soon
"Carlton President Mark LoGiudice has stated that Carlton have a ‘great list’ this morning on SEN’s Whateley.
Carlton currently sit on the bottom of the ladder with just one win, and have come under fire this season for a number of poor performances...
LoGiudice, however, believes the Blues performances are not a true reflection of their playing list.
“I would say yes because I don’t think you can get any worse results than what we’ve had,” said LoGiudice on whether Carlton has bottomed out this season.
“But again, I don’t think it’s a reflection on our team.
“It’s not a reflection on the list that we’ve got.
“We’ve got a great list that we’ve built."
The above comes from the SEN website, dated July 2018. I haven't changed one word except removing reference to a hiding from St Kilda in the 2nd para.
So just how good is the list? I think this really needs consideration when folks are calling for the coach's head. I keep hearing we have a great list, the players are in place, but we keep losing and playing very ordinary football, therefore it's the coach's fault. Well yes we have a lot of first round draft picks, doesn't mean they are or will become good AFL players. At the moment how many of our players would get a game for a top 8 team?
So just how good is the list? I think this really needs consideration when folks are calling for the coach's head. I keep hearing we have a great list, the players are in place, but we keep losing and playing very ordinary football, therefore it's the coach's fault. Well yes we have a lot of first round draft picks, doesn't mean they are or will become good AFL players. At the moment how many of our players would get a game for a top 8 team?
I think we're two quality, mature mids away - an maybe a Kreuzer replacement in the ruck...
Higgins would be massive...in the meantime teach blokes like Dow how to tackle (and kick!)
Interesting tribunal findings:
i. No fines for any of the melees which we were mostly involved in.
ii. No sighting for Nick Newman for the massive punch in the guts to someone on the outer wing.
iii. Luke Dunstan copped $2000 for hitting Gibbons.
The AFL website has footage of both the Gibbons and Casboult incidents (link below).
Note two things
i. Stocker not waiting for any cavalry to arrive, just came straight in and had a real crack at an 85 game player...no hesitation. Loved it (Keep that pick Adelaide, this kid has got something special)
ii. With the Casboult hit, note where Nick Newman comes from to fly the flag.
Two players new to the club, (one with 2 games experience) showing a few others how its done!!
https://www.afl.com.au/news/2019-05-27/third-time-unlucky-ablett-banned-for-punching-sun
Interesting tribunal findings:
i. No fines for any of the melees which we were mostly involved in.
ii. No sighting for Nick Newman for the massive punch in the guts to someone on the outer wing.
iii. Luke Dunstan copped $2000 for hitting Gibbons.
The AFL website has footage of both the Gibbons and Casboult incidents (link below).
Note two things
i. Stocker not waiting for any cavalry to arrive, just came straight in and had a real crack at an 85 game player...no hesitation. Loved it (Keep that pick Adelaide, this kid has got something special)
ii. With the Casboult hit, note where Nick Newman comes from to fly the flag.
Two players new to the club, (one with 2 games experience) showing a few others how its done!!
https://www.afl.com.au/news/2019-05-27/third-time-unlucky-ablett-banned-for-punching-sun
Agreed wholeheartedly, Stocker will become a bloody good player, maybe more.
So just how good is the list? I think this really needs consideration when folks are calling for the coach's head. I keep hearing we have a great list, the players are in place, but we keep losing and playing very ordinary football, therefore it's the coach's fault. Well yes we have a lot of first round draft picks, doesn't mean they are or will become good AFL players. At the moment how many of our players would get a game for a top 8 team?
It's a pretty good question.
In the "Pick your best 22 thread" ...20 of my 22 played yesterday.
I don't think the list is as flash as some seem to think.
Heaven help us if we have a run of injuries.
We lack depth, and if for any reason Cripps wasn't playing we wouldn't be very special at all. ( That's a moderate way of saying "in deep strife"...because we're not special now.)
That's not to say that some of the youngsters won't develop into very good players, but some of them are also long way off.
So just how good is the list? I think this really needs consideration when folks are calling for the coach's head. I keep hearing we have a great list, the players are in place, but we keep losing and playing very ordinary football, therefore it's the coach's fault. Well yes we have a lot of first round draft picks, doesn't mean they are or will become good AFL players. At the moment how many of our players would get a game for a top 8 team?
Assessing the quality of our list is difficult.
Sides doing well seem to have plenty of good players but no matter how badly you're doing, many appear to not be up to it. Pretty ordinary players seem much better in say a Fluffy Ducks or Dawks environment. Sadly, potentially good players can look ordinary playing for a club with a poor culture/discipline.
In our one winning game for the year (thank you Dishlickers for having a down day), SPS, for example, looked a million bucks but in a pressure game you'd think he's playing with the flu - he's not the only one. It's more than reasonable to assume that a strong culture brings out the best in players and a p1ss weak culture ruins development and makes the good seem less than average.
There's no major issue with the list.
There's no major problem with the coaching from what I can see as we seem to make mistakes more than play a poor game plan (if that makes sense).
All of it is simply a matter of time.
Most of our best 22 just need a few more pre seasons, and it would be of benefit if our over 100 games would stop breaking down.
Agreed wholeheartedly, Stocker will become a bloody good player, maybe more.
You can just see his strong character on the field. Reckon SOS has picked up a ripper here. Few other blokes could learn from him re mongrel at the contest.
Assessing the quality of our list is difficult.
Sides doing well seem to have plenty of good players but no matter how badly you're doing, many appear to not be up to it. Pretty ordinary players seem much better in say a Fluffy Ducks or Dawks environment. Sadly, potentially good players can look ordinary playing for a club with a poor culture/discipline.
In our one winning game for the year (thank you Dishlickers for having a down day), SPS, for example, looked a million bucks but in a pressure game you'd think he's playing with the flu - he's not the only one. It's more than reasonable to assume that a strong culture brings out the best in players and a p1ss weak culture ruins development and makes the good seem less than average.
The key word there Baggers is probably' pressure'.
When a side applies real pressure to us things that looked easy will often become difficult and things fall apart, especially skills.
There's no major issue with the list.
There's no major problem with the coaching from what I can see as we seem to make mistakes more than play a poor game plan (if that makes sense).
All of it is simply a matter of time.
Most of our best 22 just need a few more pre seasons, and it would be of benefit if our over 100 games would stop breaking down.
Isn't that just a guess though?
Who knows how these kids are going to develop?
Dylan Buckley and Troy Menzel were rising star nominations.....gone from the list now.
Is there strong evidence that our development is any better, you could have mounted an argument for that a few weeks back....but it's looking a bit shaky now.
Some will surely improve with games...others will never make it.
The key word there Baggers is probably' pressure'.
When a side applies real pressure to us things that looked easy will often become difficult and things fall apart, especially skills.
Yep. That's been my knock on us for over a year now... we just go to water under real pressure, almost to a man.
This is only home and away pressure. If we ever play finals again that's a whole new level
There's no major issue with the list.
There's no major problem with the coaching from what I can see as we seem to make mistakes more than play a poor game plan (if that makes sense).
All of it is simply a matter of time.
Most of our best 22 just need a few more pre seasons, and it would be of benefit if our over 100 games would stop breaking down.
Yep. Our approach has probably been found wanting in some of the more mature players we recruited. Lamb, palmer, kerridge and a few others would have ideally been of more service. But there are not a lot of options or spare afl level footballers sitting around unemployed so we gave been handicapped there.
As you say, game plan is sound, albeit a challenging one. Just will take time for the players to put it together.
There's no major issue with the list.
There's no major problem with the coaching from what I can see as we seem to make mistakes more than play a poor game plan (if that makes sense).
All of it is simply a matter of time.
Most of our best 22 just need a few more pre seasons, and it would be of benefit if our over 100 games would stop breaking down.
They also need to be soooo much better than 4 wins from 42, 1-9 and bottom of the ladder 4th year. If it hasn't started a run up the ladder yet it's not happening. All but about 4 players have been on lists 3 years or more and on the bottom so that is no excuse to be as bad as we are.
With all due respect to Rhys Palmer, he was part of the Marchbank "deal".....to get Marchbank for the pick we gave up, we also had to take Palmer of GWS' hands and his contract for one year. But agree, most of the mature players we've got through in recent years haven't been up to it. I like Newman as he offers a bit and hopefully McGovern has more of an influence in games.
The problem is we're anchored to the bottom of the ladder (AGAIN) and it's gonna be very hard to tempt decent players from other clubs. And players using Free Agency to move clubs aren't going to want to go to a team that's at the bottom of the ladder, especially if they want to taste some success and not just take the $$$. It's why in the last few years we've courted blokes like Rockliff, Devon Smith, Dylan Shiel etc and haven't been able to tempt any of them.
If we can identify exactly what we need, then we can give up a very good young player and our first round pick next year to a club that has something we need.
Isn't that just a guess though?
Yep
Capcom, the plan is simple, in 2015 the club admitted it stuffed things up in 2011.
That is the plan, now tell me the alternative that doesn't start and end with sacking everone.
I'm not wide awake in dreamland. Time is up. 25 years without a flag might be acceptable to some. It is not to me ... or the inevitable dwindling membership placing their faith in a losing cause.
I'm not wide awake in dreamland. Time is up. 25 years without a flag might be acceptable to some. It is not to me ... or the inevitable dwindling membership placing their faith in a losing cause.
I’m more worried about losing Cripps and Walsh than members
Me too. Membership is actually going up, but won't continue to go up next year unless something changes big time
Rumour has it that the Adelaide Football Club is about to strike a Memorial Plaque in honour of the significant gift they're soon to receive from the Carlton Football Club - the number 1 draft pick in the 2019 draft.
As if giving them Eddie wasn't enough. Does our generosity know no bounds?
;) >:D
Worse to come - rumour is Grundy to Adelaide for our pick 1 to COLLINGWOOD. Can’t get any worse
Marchbank is like Weitering last year, totally confused at to his role. Another failure of coaching.
Levi's surprised me down back. Never thought it was in him bit he has been very good. Interesting to see what happens when Jones come back. Can't play them all.
As I wrote in March, Casboult to CHB and Jones to the wing, ala Matty Richardson - he’s mobile enough and he can be the big body to support Cripps at the stoppages, it’s all so obvious, it’s sickening.
As I wrote in March, Casboult to CHB and Jones to the wing, ala Matty Richardson - he’s mobile enough and he can be the big body to support Cripps at the stoppages, it’s all so obvious, it’s sickening.
Casboult is not mobile enough to play CHB against 90% of the opposition.
Worse to come - rumour is Grundy to Adelaide for our pick 1 to COLLINGWOOD. Can’t get any worse
Collingwood will move the earth to retain Grundy...
Isn't that just a guess though?
Who knows how these kids are going to develop?
Dylan Buckley and Troy Menzel were rising star nominations.....gone from the list now.
Is there strong evidence that our development is any better, you could have mounted an argument for that a few weeks back....but it's looking a bit shaky now.
Some will surely improve with games...others will never make it.
Not really.
I've seen enough in the half games where we have put it all together to suggest that the main reasons we aren't is simply because they aren't seasoned competitors.
Strength conditioning and polish is all that's required.
It all comes from one simple thing. Experience. Which comes from time.
Not really.
I've seen enough in the half games where we have put it all together to suggest that the main reasons we aren't is simply because they aren't seasoned competitors.
Strength conditioning and polish is all that's required.
It all comes from one simple thing. Experience. Which comes from time.
Development hasn't been a strong point.
Glimpses aren't enough because our recent past is filled with players who showed glimpses.
I mentioned in another thread that time isn't our friend.
There comes a point where time runs out.
We can demand they're given more.. but the decision isn't ours.
There are much stronger influences at play than CSC.
There have been times when it's clicked but they need to be more consistent, and they need to result in wins.
That's the only way to buy some more time
Development hasn't been a strong point.
Glimpses aren't enough because our recent past is filled with players who showed glimpses.
I mentioned in another thread that time isn't our friend.
There comes a point where time runs out.
We can demand they're given more.. but the decision isn't ours.
There are much stronger influences at play than CSC.
There have been times when it's clicked but they need to be more consistent, and they need to result in wins.
That's the only way to buy some more time
I'm not talking glimpses lods.
I'm talking about stuff like the first half vs Hawthorn. Harry taking contested Mark's and scoring goals (when we remember to kick to him). Paddy Dow showing a great ability to burst through a pack (gone missing this year).
Previously it was looking for small things and grasping at straws.
Its different now. There is substance there. Previously players didn't work out for various reasons. One of was simply the coaching issues at our club at the time. Imagine walking into a fractured footy club where half the players weren't really playing for the coach (malthouse) and had allegiances to the previous coach (ratten) and you tied yourself to malthouse only for the club to declare rebuild and season over in round 2.
Menzel left at the end of that season. I dont blame him. Our club behaved poorly.
Casboult is not mobile enough to play CHB against 90% of the opposition.
I was firmly of the opinion that Levi simply couldn't play as a key defender but he has taken the points against 18% of the opposition so far.
Marchbank, Plowman and Weitering are versatile enough to take a taller or smaller opponent and I'd like to see both Casboult and Jones in that defensive mix. Both can hold down other positions and I'd love to see JD's suggestion of Jones on a wing bear fruit. I suspect that our coaching group isn't that adventurous.
I'm not talking glimpses lods.
I'm talking about stuff like the first half vs Hawthorn. Harry taking contested Mark's and scoring goals (when we remember to kick to him). Paddy Dow showing a great ability to burst through a pack (gone missing this year).
Previously it was looking for small things and grasping at straws.
Its different now. There is substance there. Previously players didn't work out for various reasons. One of was simply the coaching issues at our club at the time. Imagine walking into a fractured footy club where half the players weren't really playing for the coach (malthouse) and had allegiances to the previous coach (ratten) and you tied yourself to malthouse only for the club to declare rebuild and season over in round 2.
Menzel left at the end of that season. I dont blame him. Our club behaved poorly.
I think we're seeing different things...and there's probably nothing too wrong with that.
I acknowledge the good bits you're seeing but I'll counter with some of the concerns.
The over-reliance on Cripps. He now seems to be playing angry, no doubt frustrated by the attention that's coming his way.
The inability to sustain effort once serious pressure is applied.
The need for crisis meetings by players.
The lack of depth and the aging of our senior players Kreuzer, Murphy, Simpson, Thomas all have their best football behind them but are still some of the first picked each week.
Recruiting that has been quite good in the top part of the draft but not so great in later rounds... and trades that end up giving us a strange mix of average and/or injury prone players.
The apparent lack of co-ordination that exists between our group assistant coaches-mids- forwards in particular.
Yes a lot of these will improve over time.
But to save some of our people that improvement needs to happen sooner rather than later
I was firmly of the opinion that Levi simply couldn't play as a key defender but he has taken the points against 18% of the opposition so far.
Marchbank, Plowman and Weitering are versatile enough to take a taller or smaller opponent and I'd like to see both Casboult and Jones in that defensive mix. Both can hold down other positions and I'd love to see JD's suggestion of Jones on a wing bear fruit. I suspect that our coaching group isn't that adventurous.
He probably hasn't received the credit he's deserved for yesterday...other things have occupied our minds but...
https://www.carltonfc.com.au/news/2019-05-27/blues-duo-features-in-aflca-votes
The captain was joined by a resurgent Levi Casboult among the votes against the Saints.
Stationed in his new role in defence for the third consecutive game, Casboult received two votes for his strong performance down back.
Recording the second-most one percenters out of anyone on the weekend, seven of Casboult’s 12 disposals were intercept possessions.
He probably hasn't received the credit he's deserved for yesterday...other things have occupied our minds but...
https://www.carltonfc.com.au/news/2019-05-27/blues-duo-features-in-aflca-votes
The captain was joined by a resurgent Levi Casboult among the votes against the Saints.
Stationed in his new role in defence for the third consecutive game, Casboult received two votes for his strong performance down back.
Recording the second-most one percenters out of anyone on the weekend, seven of Casboult’s 12 disposals were intercept possessions.
What I liked about Levi's game, apart from his physicality, was his decision-making in terms of spoiling or going for the mark. I guess that, as a forward, his focus was all about marking but key forwards that can rack up the one percenters are as scarce as hen's teeth. Levi was effective in the ruck too.
What I liked about Levi's game, apart from his physicality, was his decision-making in terms of spoiling or going for the mark. I guess that, as a forward, his focus was all about marking but key forwards that can rack up the one percenters are as scarce as hen's teeth. Levi was effective in the ruck too.
I too think Levi played well, but it's clear the D50 structures are wrong in Jones absence.
Before Jones went down as a D50 group they were at the top of their game, as long as the midfield is pulling it's defensive running weight! When the midfield stops chasing we get Norp or GWS results!
Am I the only one who has heart in throat whenever Levi got near it?
I kept waiting for a stuff up. His inability to kick well also left me worried about switching the play and I often wondered whether or not this contributed to our inability to use the corridor at of defense or whether or not his teammates think similarly.
Am I the only one who has heart in throat whenever Levi got near it?
I kept waiting for a stuff up. His inability to kick well also left me worried about switching the play and I often wondered whether or not this contributed to our inability to use the corridor at of defense or whether or not his teammates think similarly.
He did well, Thry, credit where credit is due.
He's much better when he isn't hearing footsteps, he likes the play in front of him with little or no chance of someone coming up from behind. Also he is not a bad field kick.
Do you like the new more physical Levi?
I think we've missed a trick by not playing him like Gehrig on the wing, Levi is certainly aerobic enough compared to the match ups opposition need. If we did that we could partition the field and allow Kreuzer to cover less ground, and our under the pump defence would know exactly where to kick the football for the out, just keep Levi and McKay on opposite wings with McGovern and Charlie the F50 mobile targets!
Funny you should say that LP.
Hawthorn were playing Ceglar on the wing a couple of weeks ago and they were going long to him after their initial kick in and he was just too tall for his opponent.
Thryleon.....my heart goes into my mouth when Dow gets it!
Thryleon.....my heart goes into my mouth when Dow gets it!
And Plowman
Thryleon.....my heart goes into my mouth when Dow gets it!
mine doesn't.
I know Dow is going to miss and hope that he doesn't.
Dow's draft year is all struggling at the moment.
Richards has gone backwards.
Rayner struggletown and suggestions he should be dropped. Is playing a hard role.
Brayshaw and Cerra good on the weekend have produce similar numbers to the year before.
Clark and Coffield can't get a game
LDC likewise.
Reckon the 2nd year Blues and the fitness staff trying to get some miles into their legs has played a part.
He fatigues badly and like most fatigued players his disposal is sloppy as a result.
With fitness he will have more time and space and will make better decisions.
Watch the replay of his goal against GC last year and bare in mind Hugh McCluggage's improvement in his 3rd year.
In short cool your jets.
Stephenson is going okay.
Stephenson is going okay.
He is. Higgins similar numbers. Naughton much better. Worpell started like a house on fire, but his last couple of weeks have been down
Dow's draft year is all struggling at the moment.
Richards has gone backwards.
Rayner struggletown and suggestions he should be dropped. Is playing a hard role.
Brayshaw and Cerra good on the weekend have produce similar numbers to the year before.
Clark and Coffield can't get a game
LDC likewise.
Reckon the 2nd year Blues and the fitness staff trying to get some miles into their legs has played a part.
He fatigues badly and like most fatigued players his disposal is sloppy as a result.
With fitness he will have more time and space and will make better decisions.
Watch the replay of his goal against GC last year and bare in mind Hugh McCluggage's improvement in his 3rd year.
In short cool your jets.
McCLuggage is more like Walsh IMO, Dow was a burst player at TAC level getting 35 touches a match but he did butcher a lot of ball and his disposal wasnt his
strong point. But he made up for with goals and constantly being on the move and hard to catch.
Interesting umpiring stat last week. Ex-St.Kilda player Leigh Fisher, 15 frees to 3 St.Kilda's way, apparently contributed 4.3 to their score, the other two umpires 16-20 Carlton's way.
Interesting laj....surely with the roster of umpires available, Fisher shouldn't be umpiring games for a club that he played for?
Interesting umpiring stat last week. Ex-St.Kilda player Leigh Fisher, 15 frees to 3 St.Kilda's way, apparently contributed 4.3 to their score, the other two umpires 16-20 Carlton's way.
I saw this yesterday, but dismissed it as 'fake' news....is it possible to verify this at all?
I saw this yesterday, but dismissed it as 'fake' news....is it possible to verify this at all?
Take a bit of searching i'd say.
I saw this yesterday, but dismissed it as 'fake' news....is it possible to verify this at all?
I also had it texted to me. I hope the club made some enquires at least.
I also had it texted to me. I hope the club made some enquires at least.
Apparently the bloke who tweeted it has taken it down but said he got it off the radio after the game. I just went through his tweets.
Dow's draft year is all struggling at the moment.
Richards has gone backwards.
Rayner struggletown and suggestions he should be dropped. Is playing a hard role.
Brayshaw and Cerra good on the weekend have produce similar numbers to the year before.
Clark and Coffield can't get a game
LDC likewise.
Reckon the 2nd year Blues and the fitness staff trying to get some miles into their legs has played a part.
He fatigues badly and like most fatigued players his disposal is sloppy as a result.
With fitness he will have more time and space and will make better decisions.
Watch the replay of his goal against GC last year and bare in mind Hugh McCluggage's improvement in his 3rd year.
In short cool your jets.
It's all good shakin. I'm sure in time dow will be fine. He needs to do to his goalkicking what cripps did and he'll be fine.
Until then though I expect he'll keep missing.