Carlton Supporters Club

Fair points Thry, GWS had massive concessions so they started from poll on the grid, Freo have done it the hard way, some may say on that basis that Ross Lyon is the man for the job given he got them to finals.-
Some may also say that Gold Coast had there own Brendon Bolton with Guy McKenna and that he was the wrong man for the job given their poor record.

Clarkson had linear progression and a flag after 4 years but is that the norm?....I agree that losing one game shouldnt determine Bolton's outcome but then you have to work out where the line in the sand starts, 4, 5, 6 years???

You can argue for sacking Bolton or for retaining him depending on what path you want to go down, you can make a decent case for both...Stkilda and Brisbane have engaged in decent heavy duty rebuilds like us, there isnt any real trend line to suggest a rebuild from nothing even works but like us what timeline are we marking them by?

I dont honestly know how you even set a framework to judge Bolton or the rebuild by after 4 years?....is he the next Buckley, Hardwick or the next Guy McKenna...

I'd go as far to say BB won't be coaching Carlton next year unless we really turn things around THIS season - 6 or 7 wins minimum.

The same folks on here calling for Bolton's head, or putting him on notice, are the same who would have called for Hardwick's, Buckley's and Thompson's heads if they supported those teams :

Geelong 2000-2006 - up and down like a yo-yo
Pies - 2012 -2017 - backwards for 6 seasons, despite a fantastic midfield
Tigers - bundled out in 3 consecutive EF's (13,14,15), then 13th in 2016.

W/L are only a part of a much bigger puzzle. We need to learn from the smart, professional clubs.

The same folks on here calling for Bolton's head, or putting him on notice, are the same who would have called for Hardwick's, Buckley's and Thompson's heads if they supported those teams :

Geelong 2000-2006 - up and down like a yo-yo
Pies - 2012 -2017 - backwards for 6 seasons, despite a fantastic midfield
Tigers - bundled out in 3 consecutive EF's (13,14,15), then 13th in 2016.

W/L are only a part of a much bigger puzzle. We need to learn from the smart, professional clubs.

And there it is. The Carlton way, the Demons way, the Saints way. Not the Pies, Tigers, Hawks or Cats way. And that's the difference. Not looking for an easy target, but actually looking for answers.

Maybe you're right Paul
Perhaps I am a bit entrenched in 'The Carlton Way'
It's hard to shake.
And that's probably why I'm pushing the 'we need wins' wheelbarrow.
I don't know whether we've changed.
I'm actually still not sure whether that ruthlessness is a bad thing and it's more about poor choices we've made.
I do think there is still a puppeteer or two doing their thing and that does cause me some concern for Bolton's future.

The ironic thing is we wont know for certain whether it's worked until we start to 'win' games.
So in the end wins will be the measure.

Fair points Thry, GWS had massive concessions so they started from poll on the grid, Freo have done it the hard way, some may say on that basis that Ross Lyon is the man for the job given he got them to finals.-
Some may also say that Gold Coast had there own Brendon Bolton with Guy McKenna and that he was the wrong man for the job given their poor record.

Clarkson had linear progression and a flag after 4 years but is that the norm?....I agree that losing one game shouldnt determine Bolton's outcome but then you have to work out where the line in the sand starts, 4, 5, 6 years???

You can argue for sacking Bolton or for retaining him depending on what path you want to go down, you can make a decent case for both...Stkilda and Brisbane have engaged in decent heavy duty rebuilds like us, there isnt any real trend line to suggest a rebuild from nothing even works but like us what timeline are we marking them by?

I dont honestly know how you even set a framework to judge Bolton or the rebuild by after 4 years?....is he the next Buckley, Hardwick or the next Guy McKenna...

If the past coaching choices have been poor, then you sack the people making the choices, before they have a chance to stuff it up over and over. But IMO, the coaches have not been the problem - some of them may have been one of the problems (or became one), but you can't crash and burn one coach after another (including flag coaches), and then say, "oh we just made poor choices". Sorry, but simply doesn't wash in my view. Even if you believe that Pagan's success was due to Carey, what about Mick ? 4 clubs, and he only stinks it up at Carlton ?

I also don't know whether we really are new, or just pretending. But I simply see nothing good coming from sacking Bolton before the end of 2020, and I don't see how any other coach would do better under the circumstances. I am definitely of the view that if we stick with him, and if the club genuinely backs him and supports him, rather than making him feel like he's coaching for his life, then the wins and flag will come.

Really??? You don't think Clarkson would be doing better with this group than BB?  Wow.

Oh, and if you ask MM he'll tell you he'd have turned the place around in a couple of years.

I reckon we'd have at least two more wins if Clarkson was in charge.   We'd have held on against the Suns and Hawks- he would have engineered something instead of letting the train wreck unfold.

I don’t think Clarkson, or anyone else for that matter, could get better results with our playing group.......

It's all hypothetical but I reckon we'd have at least two more wins if Clarkson was in charge.   We'd have held on against the Suns and Hawks- he would have engineered something instead of letting the train wreck unfold.