Skip to main content ↑ ↓
Topic: Post Game Passion AFL Rd 10: Carlton vs St Kilda (Read 29960 times) previous topic - next topic
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Post Game Passion AFL Rd 10: Carlton vs St Kilda

Reply #135 –
It's interesting, fans wanted Simmo back like he was a miracle cure, yesterday he was obviously the disease!
The Force Awakens!
 

Re: Post Game Passion AFL Rd 10: Carlton vs St Kilda

Reply #136 –
I too would hate any coach naming specific individuals in a post game interview... that's left to internal discussions.

But are we really better?  The ladder position suggests otherwise.

But (and though this was not on Bolton's watch) think of Robinson and Betts still with the club.  We sold ourselves into mediocrity.  Same with Waite despite the fact he's now retired.

This obsession with youth gives us little grounding.  Those clearances for little return or salary cap impact were beyond dumb. 

Re: Post Game Passion AFL Rd 10: Carlton vs St Kilda

Reply #137 –
Quote from: LP on
Almost 1/3 of our playing list, and a good portion of our weekly team, are either 1st years or players in their 2nd year blues!

You only need one or two each week who are not competitive and it rips your team apart!

I didn't see one shepherd yesterday, not one shepherd of any value! The Aints followed the Norp blueprint and brought physical pressure knowing full well we'd fold! The problem is recruiting issue!

FFS, SoJ looked like the only player trying to physically pressure the opposition and he can barely keep up with them!

A massive tell is the faces of the players at 1/2-time, go back to the replay and watch them with their line coaches, they look confused, that tells me they are being way over-coached!

We had 4 players in their first or second year at AFL level.
Walsh, Gibbons, Stocker and Dow.

Re: Post Game Passion AFL Rd 10: Carlton vs St Kilda

Reply #138 –
Quote from: PaulP on
Yes, all true, but the head hunters are out in force, and they won't rest until they claim a scalp. And one in particular.

Update: 4 wins from 42, 1-9.

At this point you must admit the head coach need changing. A look yesterday shows he has no idea. He certainly doesn't seem to have the players playing for him. It's at the point now of being able to admit you are wrong.

Re: Post Game Passion AFL Rd 10: Carlton vs St Kilda

Reply #139 –
Quote from: JonHenry on
The real world works that way, people are accountable.
That said, what time frame would you give Bolton?
Say to get 10 wins in a year.

I would have thought the expectation was we would win 6-8 games this year.

If we stick with Bolton, make some changes to the assistants, and a couple of other things wrt the list, I'd be hoping for 6-8 wins next year, and 10 in 2021.

Yesterday was the first time in ages we flew the flag, and even then it was because we were shamed into it. A cultural shift like that, plus the maturing of the list (not just years in the system, but also games played), cohesion etc. takes time. Also, Bolton has been coaching a brand new list every season.

The Hawks -Ess line in the sand game (R11, 2004) took time to bear fruit - in that game the Hawks still got smacked by 74 points, and finished 2nd last. Next season, they finished 3rd last, and lost by 2 points in R3, then won in R20 by 13 points. And then won the next ?? 9, 10 or whatever it was.

These things take time, a commodity which people simply won't give.

I laugh when I hear Maher saying the word on the street is that Bolton is stubborn. The same set of personal characteristics get different names depending on the success of the person. So Bolton (unsuccessful) is stubborn- Clarkson (successful) is uncompromising.
 

Re: Post Game Passion AFL Rd 10: Carlton vs St Kilda

Reply #140 –
Quote from: JonHenry on
We had 4 players in their first or second year at AFL level.
Walsh, Gibbons, Stocker and Dow.
Walsh is always in our best I mean wtf does that show!??

Re: Post Game Passion AFL Rd 10: Carlton vs St Kilda

Reply #141 –
Quote from: laj on
Update: 4 wins from 42, 1-9.

At this point you must admit the head coach need changing. A look yesterday shows he has no idea. He certainly doesn't seem to have the players playing for him. It's at the point now of being able to admit you are wrong.

Spot on and therein lies a big, big problem, it's the architects of this strategic plan who have to admit that their plan is a failure - ample evidence abounds for the objective of this world, but once again we are reminded that you can never underestimate the power of denial.

The hubris of Mark Loguidice and Brendon Bolton is on show and it aint pretty... (reminiscent of a now former Labor leader in very recent history... stuck to a strategic plan for 6 years - admirable, but also curiously stupid).
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Post Game Passion AFL Rd 10: Carlton vs St Kilda

Reply #142 –
Quote from: Micky0 on
Walsh is always in our best I mean wtf does that show!??

We made the right choice in keeping pick 1 and the right selection in Walsh?

Re: Post Game Passion AFL Rd 10: Carlton vs St Kilda

Reply #143 –
Bolton yesterday:
"But you can see very clearly, us as a club, we've got a strategic plan. Players understand that as well. We're unified in that and we're working really hard. We, as a club, are not being dictated to by the outside. We've got our plan. The board, (president) Mark LoGiudice, myself, (CEO) Cain Liddle, (list manager) Stephen Silvagni, (football boss) Brad Lloyd, the playing group … they're all across it.
 
We've got this plan that we're sticking to and we're unified on it."

My response:
"However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results."
(a quote commonly attributed to Winston Churchill)

Re: Post Game Passion AFL Rd 10: Carlton vs St Kilda

Reply #144 –
Quote from: Micky0 on
Walsh is always in our best I mean wtf does that show!??

I think it shows he has more drive than SPS, Fisher, Dow and Cunningham.

Those 4 need an absolute rocket.
They do not get to enough contests.
They don't work together, shepherding or blocking.

Re: Post Game Passion AFL Rd 10: Carlton vs St Kilda

Reply #145 –
Clarkson is easily the most creative and adaptable coach in the system.  Look how he dismantled GWS 2 weeks ago.

For some reason he is able to put forward a plan and his troops adhere to it.  Who the hell knows why and how he can do it while others can't.  Is it the message? The way it's delivered? The respect he commands?  Or the players?

Compare that to our kick outs yesterday. Reiwoldt made the point on SEN this morning that we were setup for a long kick down the middle but the kickers chose the dinky sideways plays which were easily coralled and the ball then turned over.

Scared to win.
Keyboard warrior #24601

Re: Post Game Passion AFL Rd 10: Carlton vs St Kilda

Reply #146 –
Quote from: PaulP on
Yes, all true, but the head hunters are out in force, and they won't rest until they claim a scalp. And one in particular.

I understand how you feel Paul, you've been rock solid.
The questions is though...

Do we change nothing and just hope we work our way through it?
It's probably reaching the point where that's not an option.
And there might be a few scalps on the lance.

What's happening right at the moment isn't helping advance the club, it's actually damaging.
Folks aren't being swayed by the talk, they're being influenced by what they see before them on the ground and in results.

People are starting to turn away, passionate supporters who have lost faith in the direction are stating that they're not watching or not attending games.
We're losing generations.
If you're a 10 or 11 year old you wouldn't remember the last time we were any good.
If you're 25 or under you probably wouldn't remember the last time we were great.

That's not just the fault of the current administration but unless they turn it around they will just be another chapter in the sad saga...potentially the saddest because they've made the greatest investment.
While there's life there's hope but there are many things that need action now.

Re: Post Game Passion AFL Rd 10: Carlton vs St Kilda

Reply #147 –
Quote from: Barbs on
Bolton yesterday:
"But you can see very clearly, us as a club, we've got a strategic plan. Players understand that as well. We're unified in that and we're working really hard. We, as a club, are not being dictated to by the outside. We've got our plan. The board, (president) Mark LoGiudice, myself, (CEO) Cain Liddle, (list manager) Stephen Silvagni, (football boss) Brad Lloyd, the playing group … they're all across it.
 
We've got this plan that we're sticking to and we're unified on it."

My response:
"However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results."
(a quote commonly attributed to Winston Churchill)

'Strategic Plan,' it sounds so strong, so authoritative, so in control and all-knowing... you kind of want to fall to your knees and worship the very sound of those two words together. Well, truth is, in reality, many, many, many well thought out 'Strategic Plans' fail, some badly. Smart folks, in a rapidly changing world, adapt, alter and change (oh no, the word 'change'... to be feared and loathed by the fearful) their strategic plan to accommodate the changing landscape. But when there is arrogance and stubbornness you won't find change.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Post Game Passion AFL Rd 10: Carlton vs St Kilda

Reply #148 –
Quote from: Barbs on
Bolton yesterday:
"But you can see very clearly, us as a club, we've got a strategic plan. Players understand that as well. We're unified in that and we're working really hard. We, as a club, are not being dictated to by the outside. We've got our plan. The board, (president) Mark LoGiudice, myself, (CEO) Cain Liddle, (list manager) Stephen Silvagni, (football boss) Brad Lloyd, the playing group … they're all across it.
 
We've got this plan that we're sticking to and we're unified on it."

My response:
"However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results."
(a quote commonly attributed to Winston Churchill)

 8)
Finals, then 4 in a row!

Re: Post Game Passion AFL Rd 10: Carlton vs St Kilda

Reply #149 –
Quote from: Lods on
I understand how you feel Paul, you've been rock solid.
The questions is though...

Do we change nothing and just hope we work our way through it?
It's probably reaching the point where that's not an option.
And there might be a few scalps on the lance.

What's happening right at the moment isn't helping advance the club, it's actually damaging.
Folks aren't being swayed by the talk, they're being influenced by what they see before them on the ground and in results.

People are starting to turn away, passionate supporters who have lost faith in the direction are stating that they're not watching or not attending games.
We're losing generations.
If you're a 10 or 11 year old you wouldn't remember the last time we were any good.
If you're 25 or under you probably wouldn't remember the last time we were great.

That's not just the fault of the current administration but unless they turn it around they will just be another chapter in the sad saga...potentially the saddest because they've made the greatest investment.
While there's life there's hope but there are many things that need action now.

Yes, I have been rock solid, and also boring and repetitious :
- conduct a full audit /review just like the Pies and Tigers
- understand the process in a holistic and contextual manner
- don't repeat the mistakes of the past

My guess is that such an audit review will make similar recommendations to the other clubs. Change up the Assistant coaches, maybe also Bolton needs to fine tune some of his methods, and stick with the plan.

Those of you who are interested, do a google search for "Hardwick sacked" and do another search for "Buckley sacked". Fun times.

And just a little teaser for you :

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/premiership-coach-mark-thompson-offers-advice-to-nathan-buckley-reflects-on-his-own-hardships/news-story/411cc222d266db3ca1350d73d0a02d5f