NAB Challenge- Round 1 Carlton v WCE

Topic: NAB Challenge- Round 1 Carlton v WCE (Read 58007 times) previous topic - next topic

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Re: Tonight

Reply #135 – March 01, 2015, 08:45:31 pm

Quote from: DJC on March 01, 2015, 08:16:32 pm

Do you ever listen to opposition players and coaches talk about how we play?

They usually express surprise that our game plan does not seek to minimise and/or neutralise turnovers.

Bell is one bloke who actually gets the footy and if the million dollar man can't take advantage of that, we need to replace the coach, not the player.

Get your head out of the sand and try to look at the big picture rather than writing off one bloke who is having a go.

Firstly, not sure what opposition coaches have to do with this.
Secondly, do you see how you are contradicting yourself?

Why don't we minimise turnovers?
...because we play players who constantly turn the ball over!

Coaches are surprised that we play players that turn the ball over!!!

So Bell can't kick and thats turned into a Mick Malthouse issue now? We playing that game tonight?

My issue is not with Bell as a person and what he gives out on the field. My issue is that generally he is counterproductive to the teams success. Just like Robinson before him, both give all they've got, but skillwise left a lot to be desired. No point creating turnovers if you make turnovers. Does anyone think opposition coaches get worried when they see the team sheet and see Bell listed on it?

I understand the need for physical players to be out there and help win the hard ball. That does not mean we play players who cannot perform basic parts of the game.

As with Casboult. No point having a FF who can't kick goals. He needs to learn how to kick and demand a spot in the side. He has improved his kicking, as well as fitness and marking.

In regards to Bell, No point having a midfielder who can't find a teammate. He needs to learn how to kick, and not get tackled to demand a spot in the side. If he cannot, then bring in someone like Cripps to take his spot. At worst, bring back Army who offers the same traits as Bell just in a smaller package, but he's a better kick.

Re: Tonight

Reply #136 – March 01, 2015, 09:03:16 pm

I thought I was too old to understand modern day footy but it seems that other folk are way behind.

Re: Tonight

Reply #137 – March 02, 2015, 08:07:14 am

What became clear from this first batch of games, is that we were CLEARLY the worst performed team (Hawks were in it up to their necks 'til 3/4 time) & we CLEARLY have little or no depth......bring on season 2015!!!

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz................

Re: Tonight

Reply #138 – March 02, 2015, 09:19:41 am

WCE was virtually at full strength and we had most of our top players out. When the Swans were in premiership mode under Roos, they were hopeless in the NAB Cup as Roos rested his stars. Didn't seem to hold them back in the season proper.

Re: Tonight

Reply #139 – March 02, 2015, 09:35:08 am

Yeah have to agree, I thought it was a good effort from pretty much our reserves side with a few senior players. NAB Cup Schmab Cup anyway means sweet FA, I have no doubt our boys will be ready to roll against the Tiges come round 1.

Re: Tonight

Reply #140 – March 02, 2015, 09:39:15 am

Quote from: Mav on March 02, 2015, 09:19:41 am

WCE was virtually at full strength and we had most of our top players out. When the Swans were in premiership mode under Roos, they were hopeless in the NAB Cup as Roos rested his stars. Didn't seem to hold them back in the season proper.

Agreed, name any side in the comp which after removing the top 10 or so players from the list - and the core of the midfield - would have a hope in hell against a full strength afl midfield/side.

Re: Tonight

Reply #141 – March 02, 2015, 10:17:54 am

At this point, I think we need to be happy that our boys are coming through the games unscathed, and that a few lessons are being learned and thats about it.

Sure, I would love for one of our budding key position players to take a game by the scruff of the neck and kick 12 goals, but the last time that happened in a nothing pre season game, was 1999-2000 and it was Fev, and even he took a few years to become a gun of the competition.

Re: Tonight

Reply #142 – March 02, 2015, 10:22:28 am

Quote from: Thryleon on March 02, 2015, 10:17:54 am

At this point, I think we need to be happy that our boys are coming through the games unscathed, and that a few lessons are being learned and thats about it.

Those boys need to get up to speed and perform as quickly as possible against real opponents, because before last weekend we already had the longest injury list in the AFL!

Plus the MARs and journeymen among them are not kids, they have been playing senior football for a number of years, as a result they don't get time to toughen up!

For me Liam Jones is a real worry. They have talked him up and talked him up, "The Beast" the dubbed him at training, yet the first real game he plays it's the "same old - same old" he dished up at the Bulldogs.

You need some thug in you to succeed at AFL level, being a super-talent or a super-athlete is not enough. It's athletic thugs like Hodge, Brown, the Scotts and Voss that really leave their mark on the game!

Re: Tonight

Reply #143 – March 02, 2015, 11:20:29 am

Given our flaky form, Id rather lose now and win later, but thats a side point.

Re-joining the discussion about Tom Bell.

The comparisons to Kouta are starting to be a little bit of doing Kouta an injustic.

Kouta at Bell's stage of Developement, Had just completed 22 games of the 1994 season. Bell is a handy player, but he is 4 cm off Kouta's height, and having come from a high jump background, Kouta had a size advantage over most other midfielders in the comp, and he also had a leap which meant he could compete against the games key position players and then hurth them going the other way.

Bell is 4 cm SHORTER than Kouta. Combine that with the fact that the average mid is a bigger unit these days, and the fact that this is true of all key position players also, then Bell is effectively less capable of dominating like Kouta did, and its not fair on Bell to actually make that comparison either as he doesnt have a similar playing field. Kouta was an athletic freak before the competition became dominated by athletes. This puts Bell further behind the 8 ball.

Give him some time, but maybe temper the enthusiasm and expectations. If he has a handy career, thats good enough for me but the question remains, is it good enough for Carlton??

Re: Tonight

Reply #144 – March 02, 2015, 11:29:54 am

Quote from: Thryleon on March 02, 2015, 11:20:29 am

Give him some time, but maybe temper the enthusiasm and expectations. If he has a handy career, thats good enough for me but the question remains, is it good enough for Carlton??

In my opinion, his best will never be "good enough" for us given where we are at. We are the turn over merchants of the AFL, the sooner we rid the highest and most prolific contributors in this department, we will always be this. Teams set up against knowing full well we will inevitably just hand the ball back to them on a platter. This was evident again on Friday against WC. But its just NAB cup so it doesn't matter, rnd 1 everything will be just dandy.

Re: Tonight

Reply #145 – March 02, 2015, 12:39:30 pm

Quote from: LP on March 02, 2015, 10:22:28 am

For me Liam Jones is a real worry. They have talked him up and talked him up, "The Beast" the dubbed him at training, yet the first real game he plays it's the "same old - same old" he dished up at the Bulldogs.

Yep - he was bloody terrible. Put a Bulldogs guernsey on him & you'd have EXACTLY the same player from 12 months ago. What a chance to stand tall & make an impact in an under-manned squad, no effect offensively or defensively.....terrible.

Tom Bell is fast becoming the most over-rated player at Carlton. If I hear one more bloody Kouta-comparison, I will spew up.

Amuses me when poeple say: "It's only a pre-season game" when we lose, yet if we win that same game, suddenly the season proper can't come quickly enough.....

Re: Tonight

Reply #146 – March 02, 2015, 12:43:36 pm

Quote from: Brettie on March 02, 2015, 12:39:30 pm

Quote from: LP on March 02, 2015, 10:22:28 am
For me Liam Jones is a real worry. They have talked him up and talked him up, "The Beast" the dubbed him at training, yet the first real game he plays it's the "same old - same old" he dished up at the Bulldogs.

Yep - he was bloody terrible. Put a Bulldogs guernsey on him & you'd have EXACTLY the same player from 12 months ago. What a chance to stand tall & make an impact in an under-manned squad, no effect offensively or defensively.....terrible.

Tom Bell is fast becoming the most over-rated player at Carlton. If I hear one more bloody Kouta-comparison, I will spew up.

Amuses me when poeple say: "It's only a pre-season game" when we lose, yet if we win that same game, suddenly the season proper can't come quickly enough.....

It is only the pre-season but we all know we were watching one of our worst performances in recent times. We should not judge our newbies too quickly as the only way to truly gauge their performance will be to see what they contribute to our best 22. From what I saw last Friday Jacksh will be the only player that gets the chance to do so.

Re: Tonight

Reply #147 – March 02, 2015, 12:53:22 pm

Quote from: Brettie on March 02, 2015, 12:39:30 pm

Amuses me when poeple say: "It's only a pre-season game" when we lose, yet if we win that same game, suddenly the season proper can't come quickly enough.....

I learnt long ago not to get too excited either way.

Re: Tonight

Reply #148 – March 02, 2015, 12:55:26 pm

^^

Me too.

The only thing worth taking out of the game (I thought) was to wonder how good our team will be in 4 years time, and what our team looks like without its top end talent, and unless we recruit well or these guys all start coming on in leaps and bounds, I wouldnt be getting too excited about our future either way.

Re: Tonight

Reply #149 – March 02, 2015, 02:07:30 pm

Yep, Tutt and Jones owe the CFC big time and their future efforts need to be far superior to the shiessen dished up on Saturday.