We play North Melbourne at Cragieburn next Saturday at 1000.
Not a lot of interest in this thread: fair enough considering.
However, the Baby Blues won!
NORTHERN BLUES 2.2 3.5 6.8 10.9 (69)
NORTH MELBOURNE 0.1 3.4 4.4 5.5 (35)
GOALS
Northern Blues: Fisher 2, J. Silvagni 2, Kennedy, Keppel, Kerr, Palmer, Wheeler, Wilson
BESTS
Northern Blues: Lobbe, Kennedy, Fisher, Wilson, O’Brien, Goddard, J. Silvagni
Some good signs, especially 30 possessions to Kennedy.
However, the Blues have a Bye next week, which limits the options to some of our returning senior players. :(
Time to bring back Kennedy and give Fas the week off.
Time to bring back Kennedy and give Fas the week off.
Yes. Fasolo needs time to find some form, which he isn't doing in the seniors. (I am still very surprised we went for this guy, but ...)
Northern seem to get the bye first round every year, it's starting to get on my wick. Makes it hard for blokes coming off PS delays and surgeries to finalise their fitness prior to the season staring.
Yes. Fasolo needs time to find some form, which he isn't doing in the seniors. (I am still very surprised we went for this guy, but ...)
He's building.
It's slow but he was better this week than last week.
With Charlie out, Kennedy and jsos should come in for Charlie and Alex.
It was interesting that Schumacher was the travelling emergency. Maybe he gets a game first??
He's building.
It's slow but he was better this week than last week.
With Charlie out, Kennedy and jsos should come in for Charlie and Alex.
It was interesting that Schumacher was the travelling emergency. Maybe he gets a game first??
There is no point posters bagging Poulson and then giving guys like Gibbson, Garlett, Ed and Fasolo a free pass.
Time to bring back Kennedy and give Fas the week off.
x2...
There is no point posters bagging Poulson and then giving guys like Gibbson, Garlett, Ed and Fasolo a free pass.
Ed and Alex have AFL level history on their side though.
Polson should continue getting a game whilst he runs and chases the way he does.
Ed and Alex have AFL level history on their side though.
I don't think that qualifies as an excuse for the tripe they are delivering, it probably gives them less scope for an excuse!
We need the running power so Kennedy in and Fasolo can run punishment laps around the tan until he getss some semblance of fitness.
We need the running power so Kennedy in and Fasolo can run punishment laps around the tan until he getss some semblance of fitness.
We were sold the myth that ‘post indiscretion’ he trained the house down and fitness wise, he was cherry ripe. Were we told a few porkies, or is he just not adjusting to the tempo of the game at this stage???
Time to bring back Kennedy and give Fas the week off.
x 4 sadly, was hoping for a lot more from this guy :(
You read my mind Townsend.... "Trained the house down" we were told. I call bulldust. Strike one against Russell.
You read my mind Townsend.... "Trained the house down" we were told. I call bulldust. Strike one against Russell.
So it's not fitness he lacks, :o
(https://media.tenor.com/images/ddb929424bb77ac0fe93c843fc8eba03/tenor.gif)
just love! ;D
To be fair, it's a pretty tough gig being a small forward at Carlton at the moment - until we regularly smash the ball in quickly and the little guys start reading the chaos that should be caused by McGovern, McKay and Curnow, it is going to be slim pickings. And none of Fasolo, E.Curnow, Polson or Gibbons have the Betts-like gift to make something out of nothing.
We were sold the myth that ‘post indiscretion’ he trained the house down and fitness wise, he was cherry ripe. Were we told a few porkies, or is he just not adjusting to the tempo of the game at this stage???
His game style isnt the modern pressure smaller forward type, dont think it has much to do with his fitness...he needs the ball delivered well either on the lead or to his advantage in the air.
That wont happen with our work in progress forward line and he wont be chasing/tackling Puopolo style either.
We need a quicker more modern day pressure forward type.......people forget that Fasalo played Full Forward for Collingwood at one stage, this modern small forward pressure stuff is like a foreign language to him.
Then why did we recruit this bloke?
The mandated role is small forward = if you haven't got the ball, apply pressure. Don't stand there.....do something!
If he won't do it, then piss off the bludger.
Then why did we recruit this bloke?
The mandated role is small forward = if you haven't got the ball, apply pressure. Don't stand there.....do something!
If he won't do it, then piss off the bludger.
Prof...We need to kick more goals to win games and he was free thats why we got him......Polson is probably the more logical small pressure forward type with Pickett injured(did I say that? :))
Fasalo is a marking target mainly who can also crumb/snap the odd goal but its his leading/marking ability that have been his trademark.
I dont think he was recruited as a pressure forward at all and like I said he played FF at Collingwood and at no stage has he played as the small pressure forward role.
Probably why Puopolo has been so good is that he started as a backpocket in the SANFL and brought those defensive aspects with him but learned the forward role on the fly
and can provide both the pressure defensive acts as well as being a very strong mark for his inches when playing forward and reads the play so well.
We were sold the myth that ‘post indiscretion’ he trained the house down and fitness wise, he was cherry ripe. Were we told a few porkies, or is he just not adjusting to the tempo of the game at this stage???
My guess would be that, firstly, he adjusted his attitude after the stuff up to a high level, ie his attitude became exemplary.
Then, body wise, The Terrier did all he could do, got him fit and raring to go.
Then there's match fitness and he can only get that from games.
Complicating the scenario is that the bloke hasn't played senior footy for yonks... so it's going to take a few games at the highest level to get him in the groove, though letting him get some strong touch in Magoos might not be a bad idea.
Only those at the club would know if he's tracking well and is doing everything right - so persist and he'll improve... build it and he will come... ;)
We've got a few blokes in a similar boat to Fas at the minute... not delivering well enough - Garlett, Setterfield, Polson, Charlie, Ed... even ZF isn't hurting the opposition enough. Then we're missing Doc, Kreuz, Marchbank, Williamson... sheesh, together that's more than half our best side... too much being left to too few! I'm starting to depress myself... mmm, I know there's some vodka around here, somewhere...
Was he so slow when he played for the pies?
Was he so slow when he played for the pies?
No, the rest of the competition didn't move as fast as they do today.
His game style isn't the modern pressure smaller forward type, don't think it has much to do with his fitness...he needs the ball delivered well either on the lead or to his advantage in the air.
That wont happen with our work in progress forward line and he wont be chasing/tackling Puopolo style either.
We need a quicker more modern day pressure forward type.......people forget that Fasolo played Full Forward for Collingwood at one stage, this modern small forward pressure stuff is like a foreign language to him.
Alas, I agree totally. One of the reasons I would not have recruited him.
However, we have him now, so we have to get the best out of him. Having him one out might be useful, but I can't see that translating to the seniors.
His pace: he wasn't slow 5 years ago, but the game continues to speed up. How that leaves him, I don't know. However, if he is going to be slower, then he needs to be smarter. I haven't seen any of that yet either.
Certainly, until he gets some form and confidence he isn't the option in the ones. If he can show something in the VFL, then maybe he is worth a try.
There is one name who has fallen off the radar now that H and Charlie are the senior options: Casboult. He is looking fitter and more mobile than he ever has and has been doing tackling ad chasing (Yes, miracles have been happening). He also gives a ruck option. I am not suggesting he is ready for a recall, but he must be closer than he has been for quite a while.
Filling the small forward role is problematic at the moment with our options. I think we were really hoping that little Le Bois was going to be the answer. Alas, I remain surprised he remains on our list. Pickett is the one one we hoped was going to be the small forward option. At times he has been close, but his injuries have really put him behind the pack. I'm not sure he can make it back, no matter what I hope.
I am hoping that Murphy can get the job, but we seem to be playing him further up field.
I'd like to see Gibbons get more time in the middle.
Was he so slow when he played for the pies?
Average trainer was Fas and known for his portly rear end when at the Pies, started as a wingman when he first came over and wasnt slow but injuries saw him used forward more and the pace left him as he didnt spend much time in the midfield.
Didnt get an easy time from the ratpack either and didnt enjoy his footy at times which affected his attitude to training and would have added to his mental health issues later on.
Hope he can improve as he is a nice bloke and good with the fans....
We always seem to have too many that are nice blokes, good with the fans, but aren't up to it
My guess would be that, firstly, he adjusted his attitude after the stuff up to a high level, ie his attitude became exemplary.
Then, body wise, The Terrier did all he could do, got him fit and raring to go.
Then there's match fitness and he can only get that from games.
Complicating the scenario is that the bloke hasn't played senior footy for yonks... so it's going to take a few games at the highest level to get him in the groove, though letting him get some strong touch in Magoos might not be a bad idea.
Only those at the club would know if he's tracking well and is doing everything right - so persist and he'll improve... build it and he will come... ;)
We've got a few blokes in a similar boat to Fas at the minute... not delivering well enough - Garlett, Setterfield, Polson, Charlie, Ed... even ZF isn't hurting the opposition enough. Then we're missing Doc, Kreuz, Marchbank, Williamson... sheesh, together that's more than half our best side... too much being left to too few! I'm starting to depress myself... mmm, I know there's some vodka around here, somewhere...
Exactly. Not sure why Fasolo is copping most of the heat - when we get beaten in the centre bounces we (obviously) aren't getting first use of the ball. Then our slow, cumbersome, haphazard ball movement back out of D50 comes to the fore and our mids often chop it up - let's be brutally honest - Charlie pre injury was terrible, mcGovern not much better and the other forwards (Harry aside) were hardly doing much either....
Fisher has had a slow start, ditto Setterfield and Murphy. Ed Curnow is a tagger or a 2s player. You get the sense BB is trying to find a spot in the 22 for him (just not in the guts).
Gibbons needs time in the guts, Murphy needs time forward. Again, BB very slow or reluctant to try a Plan B during the match - it's costing us.
Yet Fas cops it?
Garlett - time to man (toughen) up or head back to WA. I agree with others - he's no defender - he's an outside mid/wing or small forward. Again, BB slow to change things up?
Phillips ain't setting the world on fire, I don't see him as a replacement for kreuzer that's for sure....
Our problems are across the field.
Actually I though Fisher was OK against the Tigers.
Actually I though Fisher was OK against the Tigers.
Yes ok, agreed. Against Port, largely invisible...but not on his pat.
Yes ok, agreed. Against Port, largely invisible...but not on his pat.
Is it tenable to think Cripps, Setterfield, Fisher and SPS can all be dominant at the same time, or is it natural for some to be quiet when another is having a good day?
I think a good example is actually Boak, Rockliff and Ebert having good days in the absence of the injured Wines and departed Wingard, when Wines returns will Boak or Rockliff fade?
The stats say they have to fade, because the average number of possessions do not continue to rise without cap! Despite building a formidable midfield, perhaps twice the depth of our own, Collingwood do not have twice as many possessions.
Is it tenable to think Cripps, Setterfield, Fisher and SPS can all be dominant at the same time, or is it natural for some to be quiet when another is having a good day?
I think a good example is actually Boak, Rockliff and Ebert having good days in the absence of the injured Wines and departed Wingard, when Wines returns will Boak or Rockliff fade?
Is it tenable?
Ask...
Voss, Lappin, Akermanis and Power
How many of them ever had a bad game....ever.
Is it tenable?
Ask...
Voss, Lappin, Akermanis and Power
How many of them ever had a bad game....ever.
Is that more about how they were managed, rather than all being good in the same role on the same day?
There is only so many clearances per game, so many possessions to be distributed, and if you are well coached you are all playing to only one set of tactics.
Fwiw, I also thought Fisher was down, I mentioned as much in post game thread, I thought he was physically intimidated. Which to me is just a further example of our list being out of balance, it's also possibly a bit of a consequence of rucking a Phillips, McKay or Casboult type ahead of Kreuzer, Lobbe or Kerr.
We don't just lack attacking aggression, we lack defensive aggression as well, we don't have an enforcer and we don't have a guardian either!
GWS have been awesome so far, now they get Mumford back! :o
A lot of fans have lambasted sMurph, labelled him soft for being crunched under the ball, but who let their direct opponent have a free run at that contest? Good teams do not allow that to happen!
Is that more about how they were managed, rather than all being good in the same role on the same day?
There is only so many clearances per game, so many possessions to be distributed, and if you are well coached you are all playing to only one set of tactics.
Fwiw, I also thought Fisher was down, I mentioned as much in post game thread, I thought he was physically intimidated. Which to me is just a further example of our list being out of balance, it's also possibly a bit of a consequence of rucking a Phillips, McKay or Casboult type ahead of Kreuzer, Lobbe or Kerr.
We don't just lack attacking aggression, we lack defensive aggression as well, we don't have an enforcer and we don't have a guardian either!
GWS have been awesome so far, now they get Mumford back! :o
A lot of fans have lambasted sMurph, labelled him soft for being crunched under the ball, but who let their direct opponent have a free run at that contest? Good teams do not allow that to happen!
The point about those players is not about possessions and clearances, its about the other things you mentioned.
They all put in defensive pressure, tackled, harrassed, stood up for teammates or simply gobbed off and inspired teammates.
Is it tenable to think Cripps, Setterfield, Fisher and SPS can all be dominant at the same time, or is it natural for some to be quiet when another is having a good day?
I think a good example is actually Boak, Rockliff and Ebert having good days in the absence of the injured Wines and departed Wingard, when Wines returns will Boak or Rockliff fade?
The stats say they have to fade, because the average number of possessions do not continue to rise without cap! Despite building a formidable midfield, perhaps twice the depth of our own, Collingwood do not have twice as many possessions.
Our problem is clearances and was last season too, without Wines we should have dominated Port...we all know Rockliff is a hack in comparison to Cripps or Wines and to allow him to dominate
was inexcusable and poor planning from the box...he had 44 possies the week before and we just let him run around on his own until Settefield went onto him but it was all too late.
We do it all the time and I pointed out the Mitchell farce last season where he was allowed to run around and get 40 easy possies and 3 Brownlow votes...
We have the talent now, we just dont have the brains in the box to use it or any planning ability.....you look at Philips left to fight it out with Lycett and Ryder after what they did to a much better player in Gawn.
Do we do any scouting or planning for games?....do we actually know who the opposition are or just rock up on the day and hope for the best.
Hinkley tagged Fisher...he did his homework.....he also started with Ebert at FF on Jones knowing our man has struggled with that tactic before......
The coaching box is where the problem is......
The point about those players is not about possessions and clearances, its about the other things you mentioned.
They all put in defensive pressure, tackled, harrassed, stood up for teammates or simply gobbed off and inspired teammates.
I think the replay will show Fisher having a crack even if he looked less effective, maybe he is just too slight to expect his tackles to stick week after week!
Our problem is clearances and was last season too,
I agree EB1, but I think it is easily explained by our depth, experience and time. We were often listed as winning clearances, but they are questionable stats if they don't create goals. This year especially, with direct scores from center clearances going through the statistical roof! At the end of Rnd 2 I heard the average is up 500%!
But long term it is no different to fans being surprised by Weitering, another pre-season or two and those bit players will be mainstream. It's like you have to be beaten up before you learn to stand up!
My only coaching concern is that I worry we'll burn out Cripps long before those around him start to stand up!
Our problem is clearances and was last season too, without Wines we should have dominated Port...we all know Rockliff is a hack in comparison to Cripps or Wines and to allow him to dominate
was inexcusable and poor planning from the box...he had 44 possies the week before and we just let him run around on his own until Settefield went onto him but it was all too late.
We do it all the time and I pointed out the Mitchell farce last season where he was allowed to run around and get 40 easy possies and 3 Brownlow votes...
We have the talent now, we just dont have the brains in the box to use it or any planning ability.....you look at Philips left to fight it out with Lycett and Ryder after what they did to a much better player in Gawn.
Do we do any scouting or planning for games?....do we actually know who the opposition are or just rock up on the day and hope for the best.
Hinkley tagged Fisher...he did his homework.....he also started with Ebert at FF on Jones knowing our man has struggled with that tactic before......
The coaching box is where the problem is......
Yes, BB simply either doesn't have Plans B or C or (strangely) thinks there is no need to change things up/down during a game....
Meanwhile, our one proven tagger is fluffing it up around the HF line!
The coaching box is where the problem is......
That may well be, but i don't buy it.
Why?
Wayne Brittain - wasn't good enough because he never played the game.
Denis Pagan - was the sole problem at the club
Brett Ratten - Was a caretaker coach only and couldn't take us to the next level
Mick Malthouse - was too old and stubborn
Brendan Bolton - too inexperienced
How many coaches do we need to go through before we realise its not the coaches.
Personally i've been saying that since we ditched Ratts and got Mick....its not the coach.
In this case, i think its a little different. Unlike the previous 5 coaches, we have the majority of our club in order now.
Now, we have 2 of the youngest, highly regarded coaches in our group (Bolton and Barker) throw in Teague for 3. We also have a senior assistant/mentor (Walls) with an almost unparalleled history in there helping out as well.
Perhaps, just perhaps, its not about the coaches.
Fisher is performing as well as he ever was.
https://afltables.com/afl/stats/players/Z/Zac_Fisher.html
He is only in his 3rd season.
The major difference is that his performance hasnt increased in line with the expectations on his performance.
I think Fish deserves a little latitude given he missed half a year with a broken leg. Still seems to be going at it 100%, which is great, and I suspect is only a game away from recapturing some form (not that I think he's been that bad, comparatively speaking).
That may well be, but i don't buy it.
Why?
Wayne Brittain - wasn't good enough because he never played the game.
Denis Pagan - was the sole problem at the club
Brett Ratten - Was a caretaker coach only and couldn't take us to the next level
Mick Malthouse - was too old and stubborn
Brendan Bolton - too inexperienced
How many coaches do we need to go through before we realise its not the coaches.
Personally i've been saying that since we ditched Ratts and got Mick....its not the coach.
In this case, i think its a little different. Unlike the previous 5 coaches, we have the majority of our club in order now.
Now, we have 2 of the youngest, highly regarded coaches in our group (Bolton and Barker) throw in Teague for 3. We also have a senior assistant/mentor (Walls) with an almost unparalleled history in there helping out as well.
Perhaps, just perhaps, its not about the coaches.
We have a young, inexperienced list that has been competitive in both games this season. Nothing the coach could do would have changed the result; the players simply need to learn how to win again. When that happens, hopefully on Saturday, the juggernaut will be released :)
I think Fish deserves a little latitude given he missed half a year with a broken leg. Still seems to be going at it 100%, which is great, and I suspect is only a game away from recapturing some form (not that I think he's been that bad, comparatively speaking).
Exactly, Fisher is no different to Weitering when it comes to his early career form and recovery from injuries.
There is some irony in seeing this same debate repeated over and over again with so many newbies!
We have a young, inexperienced list that has been competitive in both games this season. Nothing the coach could do would have changed the result; the players simply need to learn how to win again. When that happens, hopefully on Saturday, the juggernaut will be released :)
There is the other side of the coin in regards to an inexperienced list. The coach must learn about his players too. He must learn how each will react in any given circumstances. He must learn who can be relied upon in any given circumstance to carry out his wishes.
We often think of the coach controlling the 'team'. But the team is made up of individuals that need to be understood.
Bolton is doing his best trying to understand the individuals and working out what makes each player tick and how each will react.
Imagine if Rocket Eade never gave Brian Lake a spray. By his own admissions, Lake played better after getting a spray.
Which of our players are similar?
Which are the opposite?
Which are players that you just let play?
Which are the players you need to spell things out too?
All of this is oft overlooked in regards to a young and inexperienced list...
There is the other side of the coin in regards to an inexperienced list. The coach must learn about his players too. He must learn how each will react in any given circumstances. He must learn who can be relied upon in any given circumstance to carry out his wishes.
We often think of the coach controlling the 'team'. But the team is made up of individuals that need to be understood.
Bolton is doing his best trying to understand the individuals and working out what makes each player tick and how each will react.
Imagine if Rocket Eade never gave Brian Lake a spray. By his own admissions, Lake played better after getting a spray.
Which of our players are similar?
Which are the opposite?
Which are players that you just let play?
Which are the players you need to spell things out too?
All of this is oft overlooked in regards to a young and inexperienced list...
Yep.
They will respond differently each time as well. Sometimes they will go into their shell, sometimes they will cop it and get better, and part of that is a bit of belief.