And the winner is _________
Too much start like earlier on in Teague's reign. Last goal shouldn't count. Wish it could've stayed 16pts. Playing two power sides at the peak of their powers in two weeks, 16pts would've been a good result.
disgusted by the umpires...there were clear seconds before the m,ark was taken.
Then H pulled down.
And Murphy's two moments - first when he was having the shot on goal, told it would be a throw in, then the deliberate in the blinding rain....
Very winnable game, we just didn't dhow up for long enough + the regular passengers.
Kennedy might have helped today?
And too many blokes trying to be heroes by kicking a goal from outside 50....
Basics you clowns - top of the square....
Too much ill discipline today for my liking.
In the In Game thread people are critical of McGovern and Lang, but how come no mention of the putrid display of Harry McKay?
He's had enough games to give the forward line some strength but today he was just a spectator.
As an example, with 9 minutes to go in the last quarter with the ball deep in our forward pocket he just sat back hoping one of our smalls would give him a hand ball. He is as soft as.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AFL_siren_controversy
It was well after the siren ... see the link for the rule and how it was applied
That score cannot stand.
Against my better judgement, I'll post while I'm white hot.
Two '
take to the bank' aspects of the game:
- napping in first half
- slogging our guts out to claw back to a winnable position only to then hand back momentum with utterly ridiculous skill and judgement errors
Fix it Teaguey, fix it.
Watched it on TV and when Thomas told the umpire the siren went before the mark was taken the umpy said, "Doesn't matter anyway, you can't review that." WTF?!? :o
So we could possibly see a GF decided because "you can't review that". Joke.
A 6 goal head start is always going to be costly. Particularly with the wet conditions.
Once again too many passengers. Our defense was solid.
Some early poor umpiring also worked us over. Like Murphy's 1st deliberate oob results in a goal ????. We laid a couple of tackles where the tigers clearly pulled the ball back in... nothing to see apparently ????
In the end our low centre clearances and disposal efficiency kept us out of the game.
Cripps and all the seniors can hold their heads high.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AFL_siren_controversy
It was well after the siren ... see the link for the rule and how it was applied
That score cannot stand.
Wrong, sadly.
Relevant rules
The relevant clauses of the official AFL rules are:
"10.4.1 The timekeepers shall sound the siren to signal the end of a quarter until a field umpire acknowledges that the siren has been heard and brings play to an end."
and
"10.4.2 Play in each quarter shall come to an end when any one of the field umpires hears the signal."
Most commentators agree that the timekeepers erred with respect to Rule 10.4.1; that is, the siren did not continue to sound until it was formally acknowledged by an umpire. Acknowledgement of the siren requires any one of the three field umpires to raise both arms into the air and blow the whistle. There remains some doubt as to whether any of the three umpires did hear the siren, but in any event, none chose to bring play to an end as required by Rule 10.4.2. This rule is not well known by football fans and clearly states that the umpires are the sole judge of when a quarter ends. However, generally this is in terms of a split second decision as to whether a mark or kick occurred before or after the siren sounded, rather than the 25 seconds difference in this case.
While Jonesy and Weiters held their big guys admirably, the small forward kicks 4 and catch this.... lays 14 tackles.
We desperately need one of those!
Solid performances against two sides at the peak of their powers the last two weeks. Today could've been better with a better first half. Can't be giving away 6 goal starts. How did we cop such a stinking finish to the season playing the 3 best sides in the comp.
Sides need a good buffer at 3/4 time as we finish well.
Then the rule must be changed don't you think? That's a potential disaster waiting to happen fly
Then the rule must be changed don't you think? That's a potential disaster waiting to happen fly
Yes, agree 100%. Crazy where an obvious error has been made....
While Jonesy and Weiters held their big guys admirably, the small forward kicks 4 and catch this.... lays 14 tackles.
We desperately need one of those!
Deluca should have had 2 goals against his name today.
Who was playing on Graham, never saw anyone near him...?
While Jonesy and Weiters held their big guys admirably, the small forward kicks 4 and catch this.... lays 14 tackles.
We desperately need one of those!
I'm told our recruiting guys are on to it. But there could be a delay because a case of canine flu has swept through the department's guide dogs.
Deluca should have had 2 goals against his name today.
Who was playing on Graham, never saw anyone near him...?
He doesn't look confident attacking near goal imo. Looks ok defensively. Is he a small forward or a mid? We need a clever quick sf.
He doesn't look confident attacking near goal imo. Looks ok defensively. Is he a small forward or a mid? We need a clever quick sf.
Deluca was more of a mid in the WAFL. Like Gibbons, we’re trying to fill a gap by playing him forward.
... and Kade Simpson's last quarter effort was amazing. Without his sweeping efforts across back, we'd have been whipped. They only had 3 more shots at goal.
... and Kade Simpson's last quarter effort was amazing. Without his sweeping efforts across back, we'd have been whipped. They only had 3 more shots at goal.
I thought him, plowman and Daisy were gold down back.
The amount of contests, intercept marks and tackles for a free saved over 10 goals between them.
Deluca was more of a mid in the WAFL. Like Gibbons, we’re trying to fill a gap by playing him forward.
but has played plenty as a SF in the West.
He just needed to stop and think through it more - even that pass to Daisy (which Daisy then missed), it was a one step guaranteed goal!
Deluca was more of a mid in the WAFL. Like Gibbons, we’re trying to fill a gap by playing him forward.
Of course. Need a spoon, get a fork ????
To eat soup ????
I thought him, plowman and Daisy were gold down back.
The amount of contests, intercept marks and tackles for a free saved over 10 goals between them.
Plowman is a liability in our backline.
Too slow to play on small forwards, or strong enough for the bigger guys and again demonstrated his appalling kicking today.
His only value is that sometimes he marks opposition miskicks while he is standing in space.
Plowman is a liability in our backline.
Too slow to play on small forwards, or strong enough for the bigger guys and again demonstrated his appalling kicking today.
His only value is that sometimes he marks opposition miskicks while he is standing in space.
Couldn't agree more. Plowman has some strengths, but his mistakes are unbelievably costly. E Curnow, Simpson and Newman also struggle with decision making across a whole game.
Having said all of that, there is nobody in our reserves side that could do any better.
Also, does anybody know whats going on with David Cunnngham? Not in the VFL or seniors??
Also, does anybody know whats going on with David Cunnngham? Not in the VFL or seniors??
According to the injury update for R21 (posted on the 6th August), Cuningham played 78 minutes in the VFL last week, pulled up ok and was in the mix for selection for today's game. He was listed in the lineup for today's VFL game, but I don't know if he played.
Simply answer is we just don't have players with good ball skills. Ball use going forward of centre is deplorable. Still have no system and even when we get a rare break and have space (like Fisher did in the third) we rarely spot up a forward and find a way to turn an easy entry into a turnover or at best a 50/50. Been the same for the last 15 years.
Its one area that just doesn't seem to improve and you have to wonder when is it going to change.
While Jonesy and Weiters held their big guys admirably, the small forward kicks 4 and catch this.... lays 14 tackles.
We desperately need one of those!
Graham is a midfielder essentially who rested down forward from what I saw in a bit of a Dusty mode.
He is a very strong unit and played well in the Tigers GF win after only playing about 5 games, he was ideal for the conditions today and
I think we under estimated his abilities and we didnt seem to have anyone on him, he was rotating onball so maybe our inballers rather than defenders also
are to blame for not picking him up.
Graham is a midfielder essentially who rested down forward from what I saw in a bit of a Dusty mode.
He is a very strong unit and played well in the Tigers GF win after only playing about 5 games, he was ideal for the conditions today and
I think we under estimated his abilities and we didnt seem to have anyone on him, he was rotating onball so maybe our inballers rather than defenders also
are to blame for not picking him up.
We had Matt Kennedy - dropped him strangely!
Jones and Weitering did well but neither guy can do what Casboult was doing a few weeks as far as intercept marking. His numbers were better than Jeremy McGovern's.
Plowman is a liability in our backline.
Too slow to play on small forwards, or strong enough for the bigger guys and again demonstrated his appalling kicking today.
His only value is that sometimes he marks opposition miskicks while he is standing in space.
How do you think he gets in that space, he zones off, reads the play and helps out teammates.
He is faster than he looks, but obviously is not cut out to play on the fastest of small forwards. Is that his fault or is it the coaches fault for putting him on those blokes? Nobody else can do better.
People complain about his kicking and/or decision making.
Today he had 3 clangers.
These players also had 3 (or more) clangers today...
SPS
Casboult
McKay
Simpson
DeLuca
McGovern
Silvagni
Curnow
Walsh
Weitering
Fisher
Murphy.
...but sure, lets single out Plowman.
We also don’t continue running as far as we can when we’re clear,
Which is frustrating.
Frustrating game to watch, I hate the Tigers
Jones and Weitering did well but neither guy can do what Casboult was doing a few weeks as far as intercept marking. His numbers were better than Jeremy McGovern's.
Jones absolutely flogged Riewoldt today....and had quite a few intercept marks today, 7 actually, as well as 15 1%ers (which is usually spoils).
Casboult wishes he could do what Jones did today.
Thought Plow was good.
How about bloke's like Fisher, LOB, Gibbo (today) and Lang who provided zip defensive pressure....
It's watching games like today that you learn about the long term benefit of coaches who whinge about umpiring!
It's not about the count, it's about what Nthmond get away with!
Tigers - of their games after the bye (9 in total), 8 in Melbourne, 7 at the G.
How is that fair?
Why Kennedy was dropped is beyond me. DeLuca needs to do more. Lang has run out of credits.
It's watching games like today that you learn about the long term benefit of coaches who whinge about umpiring!
It's not about the count, it's about what Nthmond get away with!
Telling response from the umpire when perennial whinger Reiwoldt thought he was hard done by.
Umpire: you actually had hold of him (Jones).
Ummm, yeah - so why didn’t Jones get a free?
It's watching games like today that you learn about the long term benefit of coaches who whinge about umpiring!
It's not about the count, it's about what Nthmond get away with!
Is umpiring such a difficult job?
Tigers - of their games after the bye (9 in total), 8 in Melbourne, 7 at the G.
How is that fair?
Its not but they were too good for us today and minus Cotchin and Dusty on a dirty day we should have done better, they had a lot of kids in
but still were in control and got a more even spread of contributors. We had players who hardly touched the ball all day and the effort levels were down IMO.
Jones and Weitering were very good and reduced the damage but there wasnt much to get excited about, agree on Kennedy too, a mystifying decision not to play him in those conditions IMO.
I thought Plowman was good to very good in the first quarter and I'm not his #1 fan
There is no doubt that McGovern looked trimmer, moved freer and was far more involved than previous weeks. He obviously lacked match practice but I think the effort was there. He’ll be ok.
According to the injury update for R21 (posted on the 6th August), Cuningham played 78 minutes in the VFL last week, pulled up ok and was in the mix for selection for today's game. He was listed in the lineup for today's VFL game, but I don't know if he played.
I was watching the VFL game from the 2nd quarter and he wasn't out there - hopefully it's nothing serious
Thought Plow was good.
How about bloke's like Fisher, LOB, Gibbo (today) and Lang who provided zip defensive pressure....
Agree that Fisher, LOB were very quiet today and seem to be crawling to the line for the end of the year
Gibbo, Deluca & Lang wouldn't be getting a game at many clubs in the AFL.
Same old results as previous years we kick ball long to fwd line and they run it out and score easy goals until we find runners ,ball catrriers we are a middle table team
https://www.carltonfc.com.au/news/2019-08-11/teague-blues-can-match-it-with-the-best?fbclid=IwAR3dtpg1AOQDitvLRUnSwaCEZ-QDZ5TJaYj7-enZanL3qsWsRlJkvmNavt8
Agree that Fisher, LOB were very quiet today and seem to be crawling to the line for the end of the year
Gibbo, Deluca & Lang wouldn't be getting a game at many clubs in the AFL.
Lang will be chopped.
The other two will be fine, though Gibbons was ordinary today.
DeLuca could have had 2 goals if he'd settled a bit more...give the guy a break, he's played 3 or 4 games after moving interstate mid year ie new team, new town, no pre season with his team mates...
If Kreuzer had kicked the goal at the start of Q4 we might have even seen a different result - we didn't take any chances today really after a very poor first half we got back into the game.
Jones absolutely flogged Riewoldt today....and had quite a few intercept marks today, 7 actually, as well as 15 1%ers (which is usually spoils).
Casboult wishes he could do what Jones did today.
I said Jones played well.
I'm talking about what Casboult brought to the team when he went back.
I won't name names, this has already been done, but we just don't yet have the physical maturity or poise/class of good teams such as the Tigers and Eagles - pretty obvious over the past two games and the main reasons why we lost them. By way of a little compensation we do have the guts to fight games out to the end, at the moment. Pretty obvious and vital that we just have to try to rectify these deficits as far as we can via this years trading activities in order to start to make progress further up the ladder.
I was watching the VFL game from the 2nd quarter and he wasn't out there - hopefully it's nothing serious
Hmm. Maybe a late out. Hopefully we'll get some info soon, perhaps the next injury update. He's a good player, but gee he breaks down every 5 minutes.
I won't name names, this has already been done, but we just don't yet have the physical maturity or poise/class of good teams such as the Tigers and Eagles - pretty obvious over the past two games and the main reasons why we lost them. By way of a little compensation we do have the guts to fight games out to the end, at the moment. Pretty obvious and vital that we just have to try to rectify these deficits as far as we can via this years trading activities in order to start to make progress further up the ladder.
I thought we were less impressive today than we were vs the Eagles, maybe it was the conditions and the bigger tiger bodies but they had there fair share of kids playing and were missing some real quality. You wonder where we are going when Kreuzer, Simpson, and say Daisy give it away...
How do you think he gets in that space
He stands still while the opposition run off him. And then he isn’t quick enough to close the gap.
Occasionally he gets lucky with the opposition missing the target and kicking it to him instead.
Thought Plow was good.
How about bloke's like Fisher, LOB, Gibbo (today) and Lang who provided zip defensive pressure....
One on one good
But his kick is atrocious
He is a liability because of that
He stands still while the opposition run off him. And then he isn’t quick enough to close the gap.
Occasionally he gets lucky with the opposition missing the target and kicking it to him instead.
Well send him to vegas because he must be the luckiest bloke out there as he does it week in week out.
I suppose you think Rance has been lucky his whole career too?
Perhaps its got nothing to do with luck. ;)
As much as fans hate Dow we needed his leg speed today, and Kennedy was probably BoG for the magoos but finished the game injured.
McKay needs a rest, he's burning opportunities for the team at the moment, if they keep him in they need a big one from him next round!
I'd ruck McKay in the Magoos and give De Koning a run as a KPF.
I said Jones played well.
I'm talking about what Casboult brought to the team when he went back.
Jezza Cameron gets 9 intercepts per game (not intercept marks, but intercepts) and is ranked 1st in the league.
Weitering 7.21 /game puts him 18th in the league
Jones is 6.31 is at 47th
Newman is 48th
Marchbank 51st
Daisy 70th
Simpson 84th
Casboult....does not appear in the list which goes to 100.
Fun fact, Plowman is actually 37th in the league.
Yep, must be VERY lucky to be in the right spot at the right time so much. ::)
Casboult played a role for us....and was good. But what he offered us was less than what we get from Jones, Weitering and the gang. Hence why he is a forward now they are both playing.
As much as fans hate Dow we needed his leg speed today, and Kennedy was probably BoG for the magoos but finished the game injured.
McKay needs a rest, he's burning opportunities for the team at the moment, if they keep him in they need a big one from him next round!
I'd ruck McKay in the Magoos and give De Koning a run as a KPF.
They were speaking to Sam Docherty on the radio today and they talked about Dow.
Doc said since Teague has come on board Dow has basically moved from the midfield to a HF role.
Thus, his numbers are down.
But, they feel he was playing better footy doing what he was doing on the HF than he was getting credit for...and perhaps better than when he was in the middle.
I reckon Dow will come in for Lang after todays efforts. DeLuca would also be on shaky ground, but at least he has a reason.
As much as fans hate Dow we needed his leg speed today, and Kennedy was probably BoG for the magoos but finished the game injured.
McKay needs a rest, he's burning opportunities for the team at the moment, if they keep him in they need a big one from him next round!
I'd ruck McKay in the Magoos and give De Koning a run as a KPF.
Kennedy should have stayed in the team, not sure about Dow, he would have provided some dash but isnt a mudlark IMO and we needed a bit more muscle and tackle breaking
types around the ball.
Not an ideal day for Harry, he looked like a Giraffe on ice out there, he has been a bit off of late with his kicking but I still think today was good experience for him and he knows he
has to get a bit stronger in he contest and not let smaller players push him off the ball...TDK is still work in progress and an injury prone type, I'd rather him give today a miss
and give him games when the weather is better and he can use his athletic abilities to the full. Like Harry I think he would have just been pushed off the ball by Grimes, Astbury and crew
Today suited the Tigers and we were a bit off but I think we can take the Saints next week and DT might sew up the coaches job....
I thought Plowman was very good again today, don't understand all the hate. He will poll well in our B&F this year
I thought Plowman was very good again today, don't understand all the hate. He will poll well in our B&F this year
Not sold on Plowman being in our best 22 when everyone is fit and firing but I thought he did ok as well in terms of taking some intercept marks etc, plenty of kicking errors today from a lot of players given the conditions so you can forgive him for a couple of clangars. Tigers forward setup with all those smaller/mid types isnt ideal for him either, we had a few passengers today who did SFA but he wasnt one of them IMO...
I met a pretty intense Carlton fan last night. He was adamant we were going to win. I wasn't and he asked me why, so my reasons were
- It is going to be wet, so skills are down
- Richmond are bigger and stronger
- they have a game plan that they have got to learn, know and implement over a few years
- they bash and crash the ball forward, hunt in groups and just keep going
We:
- haven't been able to get a game plan together and work as a team because over 25% of it keeps changing season on season
- we are immature and weak
and so it was. Same with WC last week (as several commented).
Yes, we missed our first two set shots - they missed a few seemingly easy ones as well. It was just less important for the Tiges. There is extra pressure on us when what you do absolutely counts every time - a fumble, missed handball, not quite right kick - and then there is the opposition and umpires to worry about as well - Richmond weren't have frees paid against them like we were (some egs previously given by others on this thread)
I stopped watching after Murph kicked our second goal, came back again and we had kicked another three. The last goal for the Tiges was a disgrace. So many things wrong with the AFL decision making! We must have done something right along the way.
We are not over the line with St Kilda, although it would be great to win (obviously)
Playing 3 of the best 4 teams in your last 4 games is never an easy end to a season. A huge task for DT and all his players. Not a great way to build confidence or belief.
Well send him to vegas because he must be the luckiest bloke out there as he does it week in week out.
I suppose you think Rance has been lucky his whole career too?
Perhaps its got nothing to do with luck. ;)
Well no team kicks into forward 50 with 100% efficiency. So they will miss their targets. Some, like us, do it more than others.
Players like Rance, Rampe and WCE McGovern, and increasingly Weitering, read the play and get in a good position. Plowman watches the opposition take marks more than he has fall on his chest. In a marking contest he is useless and gets beaten far too easily.
The ball in his hands is not a good thing anyway. He’s the backline’s version of Dow when it comes to hitting a target.
I met a pretty intense Carlton fan last night. He was adamant we were going to win. I wasn't and he asked me why, so my reasons were
- It is going to be wet, so skills are down
- Richmond are bigger and stronger
- they have a game plan that they have got to learn, know and implement over a few years
- they bash and crash the ball forward, hunt in groups and just keep going
We:
- haven't been able to get a game plan together and work as a team because over 25% of it keeps changing season on season
- we are immature and weak
and so it was. Same with WC last week (as several commented).
Yes, we missed our first two set shots - they missed a few seemingly easy ones as well. It was just less important for the Tiges. There is extra pressure on us when what you do absolutely counts every time - a fumble, missed handball, not quite right kick - and then there is the opposition and umpires to worry about as well - Richmond weren't have frees paid against them like we were (some egs previously given by others on this thread)
I stopped watching after Murph kicked our second goal, came back again and we had kicked another three. The last goal for the Tiges was a disgrace. So many things wrong with the AFL decision making! We must have done something right along the way.
We are not over the line with St Kilda, although it would be great to win (obviously)
I'd be disappointed if we lose to Stkilda, be a great way to end the season( I dont expect us to beat Geelong) and I also think its important for the coach
who needs a win to confirm his favoritism for the job, we lose and its back to uncertainty on and off the field. I really dont like Stkilda for a variety of reasons, dont rate them at all and hope we hammer them...
I agree, Elwood. We need to turn around last years' 10 goal loss against them. We (the fans) go into every St Kilda game thinking we should beat them and tend not to...
I thought our back line was terrific today, especially after quarter time. They are a quality outfit with 2 A Grade forwards and the most dangerous small brigade in the business and besides a couple of junk time goals in the last 2 minutes, I thought the team positioned 16th on the ladder held them to a score that many others wouldn’t.
Only a couple of weeks ago, in very similar conditions they kicked 98 pts against Collingwood and have been averaging 90+ in the last 4 weeks or so. We held them to low 70s (including the non goal after the siren).
SPS now runs hard, creates opportunities and can deliver a ball. Simmo and Daisy were great, Jones had been through a heavy week, but did his job and Weiters kept Lynch very honest. Contrary to other opinions, I thought Plowman did some really good things and Newman adds an edge that we have lacked. Add in Docherty and Marchbank in 2020, give them continuity and games together and they’ll do the job.
We need to beat the Saints next week. It will give me hope we are the quality of a side sitting 10th to 13th on the ladder. Probably an improvement for 2020 on the bottom 3 side we appear to be this season at the moment. I hope all concerned focus on this one game. It’s only 4 quarters of die hard focus. Not just competitive footy. Win at any cost contest. Is it too much to ask?
Do people honestly think Richmond have mostly highly skilled players?
When I watch their brand of footy, I see a hell of a lot of incorrect disposal that, because of the speed that they do it, goes unnoticed by the umpires. It makes me think they do their ‘hunt in packs’ Because it provides a wall around their incorrect disposal so they just maul and roll the ball forward. I can’t stand the way they play not their consistent whinging at the umpires, coming from Hardwick who does it too.
Dustys fend off is and always will be a hit to the throat, don’t understand how it has ever been deemed legal but there you go.
Yeah we didn’t play great yesterday but to look at Richmond and want to emulate them, no thanks.
Just on Deluca giving off to Thomas, that was 100% Daisy's fault for calling for it.
I notice in the Club's best, five of the six are backmen. This tells me that the game was played on Richmond's terms. While we contested well we never had any control in the game. Our kicking as always was woeful, both for goal and in general play. The first quarter was poor and I would have thought that giving up a five goal at the start of the game was a thing of the past, but apparently not. I was quite disappointed in our efforts yesterday and the team must come to play from the outset over the next two weeks if they really want Teague to coach next week.
I thought our back line was terrific today, especially after quarter time. They are a quality outfit with 2 A Grade forwards and the most dangerous small brigade in the business and besides a couple of junk time goals in the last 2 minutes, I thought the team positioned 16th on the ladder held them to a score that many others wouldn’t.
Only a couple of weeks ago, in very similar conditions they kicked 98 pts against Collingwood and have been averaging 90+ in the last 4 weeks or so. We held them to low 70s (including the non goal after the siren).
SPS now runs hard, creates opportunities and can deliver a ball. Simmo and Daisy were great, Jones had been through a heavy week, but did his job and Weiters kept Lynch very honest. Contrary to other opinions, I thought Plowman did some really good things and Newman adds an edge that we have lacked. Add in Docherty and Marchbank in 2020, give them continuity and games together and they’ll do the job.
Well said. Thought exactly the same. Our problems aren't in our defense or even defensive game.
DT is now confronted with what he has inherited from BB, ingrained defensiveness when under sustained pressure - the honeymoon is well and truly over.
He was keeping a lid on his 'grumpiness' at the post game media conference but was clearly not happy at our wastefulness and failure to take full advantage of hard won and often won, aggott... particularly by our midfield. Just like when BB was at the helm, we get plenty of the aggott but don't take advantage of our efforts, which slows delivery into the forward line and hence we have trouble scoring. As you mentioned, we held the Tiggers to a losing score.
The BB defensive gameplan is still deeply entrenched in our blokes and it'll take time to shake it off. Old habits die hard.
We're definitely a better side under DT, but some of the same old issues are still there.
What's wrong with ZF?
Pull your finger out, H.
Was that Lang's last game for us?
...........................
DT is now confronted with what he has inherited from BB, ingrained defensiveness when under sustained pressure - the honeymoon is well and truly over.
He was keeping a lid on his 'grumpiness' at the post game media conference but was clearly not happy at our wastefulness and failure to take full advantage of hard won and often won, aggott... particularly by our midfield. Just like when BB was at the helm, we get plenty of the aggott but don't take advantage of our efforts, which slows delivery into the forward line and hence we have trouble scoring. As you mentioned, we held the Tiggers to a losing score.
The BB defensive gameplan is still deeply entrenched in our blokes and it'll take time to shake it off. Old habits die hard.
We're definitely a better side under DT, but some of the same old issues are still there.
......................
What a complete and utter load of crap. You can't ascribe good and bad simply to suit your agenda. Bolton = the scapegoat that keeps on giving.
Our defence may have held up well but our rebound is poor. It's why I like Casboult there as he was a monster at CHB taking contested marks.
Our defence may have held up well but our rebound is poor. It's why I like Casboult there as he was a monster at CHB taking contested marks.
Doesn't help when several of the key link men are the MIA Lochie O'Brien and Darcy Lang!
@Baggers
Baggers I honestly believe that we can put the majority of our current problems down to a few physically immature players, poor skill execution by too many, too much poor tackling allowing opposition players to break away and create damaging situations and poor decision making under pressure resulting in punishing turnovers. We have too many players atm that struggle to maintain any kind of composure under pressure. Teague's and SOS's immediate challenge is to rectify this by trading/recruiting more skilled mature players and existing player development. When these key areas have been addressed then the game plan, in game coaching moves and tactics will become critical factors for success. Until then we will continually dragged back - we can't really build until we get the foundations right.
Baggers, apologies for my ill tempered tone earlier. That was uncalled for. But I think it's simply incorrect to blame the ex coach 10 weeks after he's gone whenever we put in a poor showing, and that applies whether it's Bolton or Attila the Hun
What a complete and utter load of crap. You can't ascribe good and bad simply to suit your agenda. Bolton = the scapegoat that keeps on giving.
I think you're overreacting there. Of course DT inherited what he did, the previous bloke was there for years. BB inherited the MM stuff and had to 'change course'. Just logic that the new coach has to deal with the previous coach's strategies (or lack thereoff)... being too sensitive, Pauly, it aint personal.
Baggers, apologies for my ill tempered tone earlier. That was uncalled for. But I think it's simply incorrect to blame the ex coach 10 weeks after he's gone whenever we put in a poor showing, and that applies whether it's Bolton or Attila the Hun
No problemo Pauly. To further clarify, I wasn't blaming BB for the loss. It took BB a year to overhaul the MM gameplan. It'll take the next coach of the CFC time to 'retrain' the players to his style. I was merely trying to point that out but perhaps I wasn't clear enough.
@Baggers
Baggers I honestly believe that we can put the majority of our current problems down to a few physically immature players, poor skill execution by too many, too much poor tackling allowing opposition players to break away and create damaging situations and poor decision making under pressure resulting in punishing turnovers.
Yep, it was men against boys in physically demanding conditions. As I mentioned in the game thread if tackles disrupt/hurt opponents, in that they are not able to continue on in the chain of play, a lot of what we saw at the weekend doesn't happen.
At the weekend our guys tackle and release opponents almost unhindered to continue in the chain of play while we get put out of the contest by being aggressively tackled, we are simply too easy to play against!
But it doesn't help that Nthmond can effectively and blatantly push opponents in the back time after time, tunnel taller marking opponents, and tackle opponents before they have the football, and get away with it. That is a consequence of Dimma's dribbling and whining about umpires being unfair to Nthmond, to be getting such a favorable run Dimma, Balme or other Nthmond coaches or officials must make the umpires weekly review a very miserable affair! Nthmond probably burden the umpires so heavily that they get the match day rub just so the umpires can avoid the Monday paperwork!
The same thing haunts us today that has haunted us for the last 10 years.
A lack of composure under pressure.
You cannot teach it. Some players get down and dirty and thrive in it, and others just cannot cope and panic and throw the ball on the boot.
Until we mature, it wont change.
I see that trend starting to change a little with the SOS band (my new term for the list build).
The best part of it is that players who stuff up seem immediately hell bent on atoning for it.
Our current plight is best summed up by one passage of play from early in the game. Kick in. Plowman goes to the pocket hits up Daisy. Daisy passes it to Simpson who has it at half back. Simpson elects to go inboard to the corridor to hit Setterfield. Misses the target and a Richmond player standing inside the corridor of Setterfield is able to waltz into 50 and kick the goal quite easily.
It took BB a year to overhaul the MM gameplan.
Bolton's best year was his first season so you're really sticking the boots in now. ;D
Our current plight is best summed up by one passage of play from early in the game. Kick in. Plowman goes to the pocket hits up Daisy. Daisy passes it to Simpson who has it at half back. Simpson elects to go inboard to the corridor to hit Setterfield. Misses the target and a Richmond player standing inside the corridor of Setterfield is able to waltz into 50 and kick the goal quite easily.
Yes I agree, it's the older heads that have become conditioned to the turnover. Most fans see the courageous intercept marks and other bits of glitter here or there, but our old heads are not reliable enough under pressure, they should be the ones steadying the ship, but they are actually the weak point.
But I do feel sorry for them, decades of losing does this to players, it's a big hole to climb out of!
Reality is, until they are gone, our chances of ultimate success will remain constrained.
One of the answers to the weekend is to have someone like Mitch Robinson or Jed Lamb out there, but that seems to be undesirable to our politically correct crew. We just accept a player like Riewoldt pummeling into one of our players backs without even going close to the ball, then it's play on!
@Baggers
Baggers I honestly believe that we can put the majority of our current problems down to a few physically immature players, poor skill execution by too many, too much poor tackling allowing opposition players to break away and create damaging situations and poor decision making under pressure resulting in punishing turnovers. We have too many players atm that struggle to maintain any kind of composure under pressure. Teague's and SOS's immediate challenge is to rectify this by trading/recruiting more skilled mature players and existing player development. When these key areas have been addressed then the game plan, in game coaching moves and tactics will become critical factors for success. Until then we will continually dragged back - we can't really build until we get the foundations right.
Too true, Fluffy One, though I don't think we're far off. Unfortunately we also seem to take a passenger or 3 into games which is to be expected with our list rebuild probably still this year recruiting and next from being complete. We convert with those few shots on goal early in the last and the game could have been very different... which comes down to taking full advantage of your opportunities which we've both pointed out, as has DT.
Too true, Fluffy One, though I don't think we're far off. Unfortunately we also seem to take a passenger or 3 into games which is to be expected with our list rebuild probably still this year recruiting and next from being complete. We convert with those few shots on goal early in the last and the game could have been very different... which comes down to taking full advantage of your opportunities which we've both pointed out, as has DT.
Lang was horrendous yesterday, for me if we have a spot for that type of player it's either Lang or Fasolo, just one spot, and for me watching the VFL yesterday Fasolo should be well ahead of Lang. Fasolo actually puts his body on the line yesterday! I would have had him among our better players in the VFL.
Are we intending to make a statement about that last goal or simply shut up. If it's good enough to call for a goal review then the same damned thing MUST apply to that.
Are we intending to make a statement about that last goal or simply shut up. If it's good enough to call for a goal review then the same damned thing MUST apply to that.
Very good point, but technically the game is over when the umpire signals it's over not when the siren goes!
However, I bet if it had been Nthmond versus the Handbaggers or Dawks the commentary crew would be all over it, which is the disparity we have to live with! FMD, if it's the Filth playing BT will publish a drunken thesis on a stray fingernail in a goal review!
Lang was horrendous yesterday, for me if we have a spot for that type of player it's either Lang or Fasolo, just one spot, and for me watching the VFL yesterday Fasolo should be well ahead of Lang. Fasolo actually puts his body on the line yesterday! I would have had him among our better players in the VFL.
Agree, you'd think in a better team, or our team with a stronger midfield, Fas still offers value as a depth player.
Lang? Piss him off quickly.
Agree, you'd think in a better team, or our team with a stronger midfield, Fas still offers value as a depth player.
Lang? Piss him off quickly.
I'd delist both of them.......you think of Fazzy boy out there yesterday vs the Tigers...no thanks.
I'd delist both of them.......you think of Fazzy boy out there yesterday vs the Tigers...no thanks.
If there's a better alternative, sure I'd agree.
No problemo Pauly. To further clarify, I wasn't blaming BB for the loss. It took BB a year to overhaul the MM gameplan. It'll take the next coach of the CFC time to 'retrain' the players to his style. I was merely trying to point that out but perhaps I wasn't clear enough.
I can't imagine there would be even one North supporter who would invoke Brad Scott's name after their game on Saturday night, and I see no reason why the same shouldn't apply to us. If the current crop of CFC coaches and players don't take 110% ownership of the good and the bad, then the club is worse off than I thought.
I'd delist both of them.......you think of Fazzy boy out there yesterday vs the Tigers...no thanks.
Agree. Both in the bin at years end.
Watched him closely yesterday and he plays like a bloke that is only there to collect his pay cheque and knows he won't be playing in the firsts.
Trots around like one of the blokes in the legend games that just retired.
Do people honestly think Richmond have mostly highly skilled players?
When I watch their brand of footy, I see a hell of a lot of incorrect disposal that, because of the speed that they do it, goes unnoticed by the umpires. It makes me think they do their ‘hunt in packs’ Because it provides a wall around their incorrect disposal so they just maul and roll the ball forward. I can’t stand the way they play..................
It's not a traditional way of playing footy, somewhat impure, but lethally effective in the right hands. I remember Clarkson had a shot at their style a while back.
Hate to keep going at Lang but geez, tell me what he brings to the table each week? Minimal possessions and next to no impact on the game. Kennedy hasn't exactly set the world on fire but in recent weeks was okay and hitting the scoreboard regularly...hard to fathom why Lang was in yesterday and Kennedy wasn't?
With their dangerous small forwards, Stocker needs to come back in this week against St Kilda IMO. Get him and Kennedy in for Lang and O'Brien. I wouldn't be rushing Dow back in on the back of one game in the VFL.
Kennedy was stiff to be dropped, especially given Lang was retained, but I can't see us bringing him back into that forward line. We already look too big and slow, and removing Lang and adding Kennedy is going to make that worse. Can only see Kennedy returning to the forward line if McKay, McGovern or Casboult goes out
That was the coldest day I have had at the footy since a couple of shockers at Arctic Park....
I think we absolutely shot ourselves in the foot at the selection table - forecast was clearly for a wet and miserable afternoon, and yet we went in with a forward line full of big blokes. Their half back line had an absolute picnic for the first half, and they served it up on a platter for the run of Prestia, Graham, Edwards. They got most of their first half goals from slingshot attacks, and watching McGovern, Casboult and McKay try to chase Houli et al was ridiculous. It seemed that we didn't even realise it was raining until we were 6 goals down.
But to their credit, they hung tough. Richmond's only goals in the third quarter came from a couple of our backline howlers, and their first goal in the last quarter came after a gimme free kick for a deliberate out of bounds.
If (and it is a big if) we had kicked a couple with the early forays in the last quarter, this could have ended up very differently - they were definitely wobbling half way through the last.
One player who made big steps in my eyes yesterday was SPS. I hope they try to turn him into a Houli/Johanesen type as I reckon he has all the attributes needed, and we desperately need some run from our half back line.
And one simple rule of wet weather football - minimal handball.....please! And play smart - kicks out near the boundary line to someone on a lead only ever end up as a 50-50 - kick the damned thing to the top of the goalsquare and let those big blokes crash the pack.
...................
And one simple rule of wet weather football - minimal handball.....please! Kick the damned thing to the top of the goalsquare and let those big blokes crash the pack.
Disposals were 376/366 in the Tigers favour. Handballs were 158/134 in their favour, kicks were 232/218 in ours.
Disposals were 376/366 in the Tigers favour. Handballs were 158/134 in their favour, kicks were 232/218 in ours.
Their handballs were mostly to blokes on the run in the clear - we tried to much of the cute in-close stuff......the stats for disposal efficiency were 69-57 to them (and it was 73-51 at half time....) - we had more butchers than Costco on a Saturday morning.....
Their handballs were mostly to blokes on the run in the clear - we tried to much of the cute in-close stuff......the stats for disposal efficiency were 69-57 to them (and it was 73-51 at half time....) - we had more butchers than Costco on a Saturday morning.....
Then the issue is not handball to kick ratio, it's butchering the ball. We spent the entire afternoon bombing the ball long into our F50, and it didn't work. Whilst I have a soft spot for a long, simple kicking game into a F50 with strong marking forwards and good crumbers, there is undoubtedly an art involved, one which we have yet to master. Teague has had most of his success playing 1 big bloke and a few smaller ones in the forward half (by necessity as much as anything), so I'm not sure why you would change a winning formula, even though I do understand the conventional wet weather logic. What's more important than understanding the weather is understanding the opposition. Anyway, hopefully a lesson learned.
Then the issue is not handball to kick ratio, it's butchering the ball. We spent the entire afternoon bombing the ball long into our F50, and it didn't work. Whilst I have a soft spot for a long, simple kicking game into a F50 with strong marking forwards and good crumbers, there is undoubtedly an art involved, one which we have yet to master. Teague has had most of his success playing 1 big bloke and a few smaller ones in the forward half (by necessity as much as anything), so I'm not sure why you would change a winning formula, even though I do understand the conventional wet weather logic. What's more important than understanding the weather is understanding the opposition. Anyway, hopefully a lesson learned.
I kind of agree - but Harry, Levi and McGovern went on long leads out to the 50 meter arc and beyond - when they didn't get a clean mark, as happened more often than not, it was whisked away to the other end. They should have adopted more of a wet weather approach and stayed put more (Lynch certainly did that). Then the bombs go to a serious contest, and anything can happen.
It's crazy to think that a game plan that works well at Marvel stadium under the roof will work the same way on a wet and windy MCG - and we did little in the first half to recognise and play to that difference. My point is that our skill level doesn't cut it in the wet (yet), and Richmond are actually the best at it - so that being the case, live within your limitations and stay in the game - six goals down on a day like yesterday was a match killer.
We were also turning the ball over far too much way before it got anywhere near our F50.
I kind of agree - but Harry, Levi and McGovern went on long leads out to the 50 meter arc and beyond - when they didn't get a clean mark, as happened more often than not, it was whisked away to the other end. They should have adopted more of a wet weather approach and stayed put more (Lynch certainly did that). Then the bombs go to a serious contest, and anything can happen.
.............
The main reason they went that far up the ground is because our F50 entries were way too shallow, as pointed out by Bartel during the telecast.
We were also turning the ball over far too much way before it got anywhere near our F50.
Yes. I'm not as bummed as others are to be honest. It wasn't a great spectacle, but the Tigers are older, bigger, cleaner, more experienced, more settled and just a more evolved football team. I was expecting worse, and I think the wet weather helped, mainly because it reduced the Tigers skill level and clean use
The main reason they went that far up the ground is because our F50 entries were way too shallow, as pointed out by Bartel during the telecast.
Yes - because we tried to hit guys on leads..... chicken and egg here - when we got the ball, all forwards led out, the deliverer had no one deep, so kicked short to the lead etc etc. We stuffed up at 60m mark, or it spilled, they whisked it away and we were caught on the back foot. It happened endlessly for the first 45 minutes. And when they did bang it long, there was no-one there. Just plain dumb.
Play the percentages and play the conditions - took us 2 quarters of football to work that out.
Jones season over.
Did anyone see Jones get whacked in the throat?
Jones season over.
Did anyone see Jones get whacked in the throat?
I didn't see it.
https://www.afl.com.au/news/2019-08-12/season-over-for-key-blue-after-nasty-throat-fracture
I didn't see it.
https://www.afl.com.au/news/2019-08-12/season-over-for-key-blue-after-nasty-throat-fracture
Very nasty injury and takes time to get over, very bad luck IMO and he played very well.
I guess Levi will take his place down back vs Bruce from the Saints...
Between one thing and another, he's had a rough year.
Bad luck Liam, a bitch of a run atm. Take it easy for now and get yourself properly recovered for next year.
Did anyone see Jones get whacked in the throat?
I remember seeing when it happened in game and my mind jumped to Ed Curnow's throat injury from 2017.
Can't recall what caused Jones' injury though. I'll have to check back over the replay.
I said Jones played well.
I'm talking about what Casboult brought to the team when he went back.
Wonder if Casboult will go back now the Jones is out for the season.
I remember seeing when it happened in game and my mind jumped to Ed Curnow's throat injury from 2017.
Can't recall what caused Jones' injury though. I'll have to check back over the replay.
13:30 to go in the 3rd quarter.
Difficult to see on the vision, but probably when Jones tackled Lambert. (unless he copped an elbow from Reiwoldt just before the tackle).
He actually got the clearance after the ball up despite the injury, and played out the game too.
The man is tough.... hope he recovers well.
Any chance Riewoldt will get cited for his chicken wing.....especially considering his double movement that can ONLY be explained as intent to hurt a defenseless person.
That is more BS than the sirengate!
I saw that too, very ordinary act, but will get away with it because he's from one of the favourite clubs
I thought Plowman was very good again today, don't understand all the hate. He will poll well in our B&F this year
Plow does heaps right, and I've seen him beat plenty of the oppositions best small & tall fwds. He has a knack for locking down on dangerous players and seems to bob up in the right spot often to take a mark. And I've seen him drill some beautiful passes. Sadly, he makes the odd howler, and across half back they stand out like dogs balls. He just needs to make better decisions sometimes and hopefully learns to play within his abilities. As mentioned somewhere way back, he's not alone. Plenty of players make the odd howler.
I saw that too, very ordinary act, but will get away with it because he's from one of the favourite clubs
Yep....an AFL favorite ambassador so he should be right...if they can let Barry Hall off for belting a player off the ball so he can play and help deliver a flag for the AFL's favourite interstate team then Jack has no problems.
It was two actions IMO and instead of releasing his grip the 2nd action showed him pushing the arm up more.....
Yep....an AFL favorite ambassador so he should be right...if they can let Barry Hall off for belting a player off the ball so he can play and help deliver a flag for the AFL's favourite interstate team then Jack has no problems.
It was two actions IMO and instead of releasing his grip the 2nd action showed him pushing the arm up more.....
Considering he is a recidivist too...
https://www.sportingnews.com/au/afl/news/jack-riewoldt-chicken-wing-video-richmond-tigers-melbourne/vcy6wgklf0df1vfv9gab4ivk2
That shows a video of what he did to Bailey Fritsch
It also cites the fact that Judd was suspended for 4 weeks for his chicken wing.
Any danger of some consistency here??
Not for the first time one of our players has suffered a serious throat injury during a game and has not even won a free for his efforts. This time it is Liam Jones, who totally obliterated a Big Head called Riewoldt.
Why is us? How is it happening? Somebody is not looking closely enough at the game. (No need to guess who.) And those whose job it is to police the game at the administrative level are not doing their job.
At the moment too many people at the top end are ignoring the basics to push their own agendas (growth in Qld and NSW) and making politically correct statements. Both of those goals are fine in their own right, but the AFL is simply ignoring other problems:
(a) The standard of umpiring.
(b) The state of the game at grass roots level in the core states.
(c) The inequities in programming and recruiting.
(d) The treatment of players on the field and the justice of the bodies who determine what is accepted and what is not.
There are plenty more things, but that will do for now.
[1] The Standard of Umpiring and the use of the technology to help them.
Yesterday’s game is very much a case in question. The umpiring is not good. Nor are the AFL willing to address the problem. They will not accept any criticism of the Umpires, which is simply hiding from the issues.
Examples:
(a) In the last few minutes we (mis)kicked the ball into our forward 50 to a contest where we were outnumbered. Richmond win the ball and start to run it out of defence. Harry McKay chases (about the only time he did it all day). He gets reasonably close to his target and is running though our attacking goal square, where, instead of being shepherded legally, he is jumped on and tackled to the ground. The Umpires ignore it. Richmond run the ball down the ground and kick a goal.
Result: 2 goal turn-around with only a few minutes left.
I find it almost incomprehensible that the umpires could not see this and should have paid a free about 3 metres from goal directly in front.
(b) In the last seconds of the game the ball gets kicked to the Richmond forward line. The siren goes noticeably and measurably before the mark is attempted. The mark is paid, and a goal is kicked.
When questioned by Daisy Thomas the umpire not only confirms his error but states that no potential review is possible, even though the game has finished.
That does not appear to be reasonable.
The law states that the game finishes when the umpire calls time: fair enough. However, that is not the way that the game has been interpreted, and not just this season. In games involving us (Hawthorn is Tasmania, for example) and those not, the umpires have consistently considered the game finished when the siren went, not when they have put their hands in the air.
Nor is this a new issue. North Melbourne defeated Collingwood some time after the siren in a Night GF many years ago. Supposedly things were changed to make a repeat impossible. That does not appear to be the case.
I well understand just how difficult our game is to officiate: I have tried myself more than once. However, even with 3 umpires, many frees are not seen, others are decided by the umpire making a guess and others are systematically ignored. The kicking in danger rule could have been paid many times in recent times and is not. The Goodes rule is now usually ignored. The push in the back rule rarely gets paid, and the few times where it is, it appears to be extremely soft. Some very clear tow handed pushes are ignored, and not just in marking contests. Many years ago, Adrian Bassett tackled a Sydney player very late in the game. It was paid a free for in the back. At the time I didn’t like it, but I thought it was a reasonable decision. The same tackles happen now each week and are systematically ignored. There were at least 4 cases I could remember, 2 our way and 2 Richmond’s. None got paid.
Demonizing fans who call out towards umpires is not helping the umpires. Instead it is giving them a false sense of security that they can make blatant errors and get away with them, instead of learning to fix them.
With the technology available now, decisions can be accurately determined. In the Cricket the third umpire usually uses the technology to overturn wrong decisions. An umpire off the field could easily inform an umpire of an incorrect decision that could be remedied.
At this point, an umpire cannot change his decision, even if he has realized that he made a mistake. He can only review certain things under very limited circumstances. That is a mistake.
There are a number of potential theories going around for ways of improving the umpiring, some impractical, others not. However, the AFL does not face the issue.
This is an error that does not just change the result of games (and could well determine the result of a GF), but it adds enormous stress to an Umpire. After all, Umpires are humans and will be informed about their decisions in many formats, not just the irritation of the fans on the day.
Nor is the AFL apparently willing to address the obvious fallacies: for example, the day Collingwood got 24 frees and we got 8. Any reasonably disinterested party could judge that we were harshly done by. Yet, there is not way to seek redress. It cannot even be reported if the umpires involved were penalized if they have been making errors.
Recently a ‘group of experts’ determine that 21% of all frees paid are incorrect. I may be leery of ‘panels of experts’, but this sort of number cannot be ignored. And yet it is.
Considering he is a recidivist too...
https://www.sportingnews.com/au/afl/news/jack-riewoldt-chicken-wing-video-richmond-tigers-melbourne/vcy6wgklf0df1vfv9gab4ivk2
That shows a video of what he did to Bailey Fritsch
It also cites the fact that Judd was suspended for 4 weeks for his chicken wing.
Any danger of some consistency here??
No chance..
I think they will use that ambiguous term "insufficient force"...the player on the receiving end is the only one who can judge that though. The intent should be equally important.
Dangerfield, Ablett, Selwood, Dusty... Riewoldt, all the big names can take a swing/get in a sneaky blow/action at a lesser name and get away with it unless its so blatant and obvious and even then it will get appealed down.
It almost needs an independent body adjudicating but how can anything be independent with the AFL funding it?
[2] The state of the game in the core states:
This is not a new issue either, but it does not appear to be under consideration.
(a) The numbers are clear: football is no longer the largest participatory sport during the winter. More kids play soccer.
(b) All around the state the number of clubs is dropping, not rising, as participation is reduced. Some of this is because numbers in country towns are dropping, but even with the increase in population, footy is getting its fair share.
For example: Bendigo
I have lived in Bendigo for some years now and was well addressed in the situation when it was the centre of our country zone. Even though the population has over doubled since it was our zone, the number of players playing footy have dropped. The number of teams has dropped. Others have merged. Football is not played much at school level at primary or secondary level. At VCE level there are only 4 providers, which Catherine McAuley College (the former Catholic College Bendigo) and Bendigo Senior Secondary College having the vast majority of the students. Hence there are only 2 strong teams, which only a few can participate in. Girton Grammar and Marist don’t have the numbers to be really competitive. Hence school football is not a help.
The local footy people do their best, but little time is set aside for them to get into schools. Nor do teams visit more than once per year.
When Bendigo was our zone, we had people in every school. The inter-school competition was strong as each secondary school went from 7-12. There were lots of teams to play for a lot of encouragement to play. Mr Strauch and his colleagues had a much smaller population to deal with, but football was present as a part of life. Now it is not.
The Bendigo Pioneers struggle to be relevant. The team covers a zone stretching all the way to Mildura, but it is perpetually at the bottom of the table. The people running things are no less enthusiastic now, but they do not get much support from the AFL, not when the distances are taken into account. But even with twice the number of people in Bendigo and the population continuing to rise, the team cannot get talent on the park.
Even the Bendigo League is struggling for the depth of talent it had 50 years ago. Bendigo has not been the #1 country league this century, and some players are leaving to play in stronger competitions.
If I can see these problems, the AFL should be able to. They have access to more funds now than in any time in history, yet the money does not seem to be coming to grass roots competitions, nor the schools. If the game is to prosper, this must be addressed. Otherwise we will be stuck with a second class spectacle like soccer.
[3] The Inequities in programming, scheduling and recruiting:
What last weekend’s game showed me is the inequities of the system not only still exist but are worse than ever.
Richmond and Collingwood rarely play at places other than the MCG. Neither travel much. Nor do Essendon. Do they play in Tasmania? Darwin? Canberra?
I will flog this horse at another time, as I have flogged it before.
The same goes for the recruiting. The rules as they are do not help lower clubs, they penalize them as other clubs steal their players through free agency. The Zones for some teams, particularly GWS, appear to give them an advantage that is difficult to counter. No other ‘Zone’ produces top level players like that.
As for home grounds, in Victoria only Geelong have one, and they are fed games there that should be played at the MCG. We will play them in a couple of weeks and our members and supporters get less chance to see the game than if they go to Perth. There could have been 60 000 people at the game. There will not be 30 000: their ground cannot hold that many.
The WA teams have a huge home ground advantage, as do all of the ‘interstate’ teams. Some Vic teams get special treatment (Coll, Rich, Ess, for example). But only Geelong has a home ground advantage. Why? Why not us? Or North? Or even the Bulldogs? I have written about Princes Park any number of times. It remains a much better venue and could have been much, much better.
I'll stop there. I didn't intend to write an essay. God knows I couldn't write an essay to save my life when I was a students. Probably why I teach Maths and Science!
[1] We can't play wet weather football. This season when it rains we fumble, mishandle the ball, miskick the ball and lose confidence. When the rain stops we start playing.
[2] We have not won a game on free to air TV for 2 seasons. Maybe more. Nor have the seconds.
[3] Our forward work is very ordinary at the moment. We don't have that extra mid or the specialist small forwards tht other teams have.
[4] Kreuzer dominated in the ruck for 3 quarters, yet we couldn't get the clearances. Why? We fumbled the ball.
[5] Too many of our players miss goals from set shots. Far too many.
[6] Our game style is not as desperate as Richmond's yet. I want us to show that level of desperation: we will rarely lose if we do. However, we also need more fast guys who will tackle.
[7] Our list is not yet deep enough. Our injuries kill us. Hopefully we have fewer injuries, but we haven't had anything like a full list to select from at this time of the season since the early 1990's. Brisbane have no injuries. Richmond have very few, and were an incompetent mess when they had some.
Kreuzer's ruck work was very sloppy - i reckon they scored 4-5 goals from his taps.....
Kreuzer's ruck work was very sloppy - i reckon they scored 4-5 goals from his taps.....
Agree, he kept tapping backwards in the wet.
Needed to get the ball forward.
Kreuzer was sometimes poor and attempted to nullify rather than ruck.
The whole game our midfielders were surrendering the front position to faster opponents, it didn't maker sense and allowed Nthmond to clear too many of Kreuzer's taps.
The problem is twofold, Nthmond are allowed to grab opponents off the ball without penalty, and opposition teams do not react to those tactics. The trick is to complain loudly and early, to make umpires aware of the tactic, the best way to complain is turn around and give an opponent "a shove" in the chest drawing attention as you do it, you'll give away a couple of frees early but umpires will become aware of the problem.
The whole game our midfielders were surrendering the front position to faster opponents, it didn't maker sense and allow Nthmond to clear too many of Kreuzer's taps.
The problem is twofold, Nthmond are allowed to grab opponents off the ball without penalty, and opposition teams do not react to those tactics. The trick is to complain loudly and early, to make umpires aware of the tactic, the best way to complain is turn around and give an opponent a shove in the chest, you'll give away a couple of frees early but umpires will become aware of the problem.
Besides Simmo and Murph occasionally, none of our players are little whinging bitches and they need to be!
Besides Simmo and Murph occasionally, none of our players are little whinging bitches and they need to be!
Nthmond rely on teams/opponents not wanting to be seen as whingers, yet you won't find a bigger set of beggars in the AFL than Cotchin and Riewoldt!
We can joke about it, but it's smart because the big game influencing variable in AFL is the umpiring, it makes or breaks teams.
If 1 in 10 or 15 umpiring decisions go your way because of the complaining the balance of a game can be tipped and you'll probably win more than you lose!
The whole game our midfielders were surrendering the front position to faster opponents, it didn't maker sense and allow Nthmond to clear too many of Kreuzer's taps.
The problem is twofold, Nthmond are allowed to grab opponents off the ball without penalty, and opposition teams do not react to those tactics. The trick is to complain loudly and early, to make umpires aware of the tactic, the best way to complain is turn around and give an opponent "a shove" in the chest drawing attention as you do it, you'll give away a couple of frees early but umpires will become aware of the problem.
Yep, the squeaky wheel....
Besides Simmo and Murph occasionally, none of our players are little whinging bitches and they need to be!
Cripps spends a lot of time letting the umpires know what he thinks of their decisions - and I guess that’s part of his role. Most of our defenders are quite demonstrative when they get bad calls, particularly Weitering, Plowman and Marchbank - Jones doesn’t say much.
I don’t think Murph said anything when he was penalised for deliberate out of bounds but the look on his face was worth a thousand words.
Can I assume the captain of any club is still permitted to approach field umpires to make their case about perceived indiscretions? Talk about a protected species on handsome salaries
Yep, the squeaky wheel....
Partly we are to blame, inclusively as Carlton fans. We do get out-voiced by opposition fans, be it Nthmond, The Filth or CheatsFC, and umpires are also heavily influenced by the crowd. That is the real home ground advantage, nothing to do with ground size, shape, surface, location or orientation. Pretty much everyone knew or knows that, but we still surrendered our home ground, our club didn't put a value on that, and now we get scheduled to play in sleepy hollow!
No chance..
I think they will use that ambiguous term "insufficient force"...the player on the receiving end is the only one who can judge that though. The intent should be equally important.
Dangerfield, Ablett, Selwood, Dusty... Riewoldt, all the big names can take a swing/get in a sneaky blow/action at a lesser name and get away with it unless its so blatant and obvious and even then it will get appealed down.
It almost needs an independent body adjudicating but how can anything be independent with the AFL funding it?
Intent should be MORE important.
You can 'supposedly' can done for attempting to strike as its all about intent.
You have a guy laying on the ground, defensless, with his arm already behind his back courtesy of your tackle. Then for no other possible reason apart from deliberately trying to hurt him, you wrench the arm upwards further.
INTENT INTENT INTENT.
Should get 4 weeks like Judd did.
Lucky Jones is Mr Elastic!
I was watching the VFL game from the 2nd quarter and he wasn't out there - hopefully it's nothing serious
The latest (R22) injury update talks briefly about Cuningham.
https://www.carltonfc.com.au/video/2019-08-13/injury-update-round-22
The latest (R22) injury update talks briefly about Cuningham.
https://www.carltonfc.com.au/video/2019-08-13/injury-update-round-22
wake up gents Cuners won't play again this year...
The latest (R22) injury update talks briefly about Cuningham.
https://www.carltonfc.com.au/video/2019-08-13/injury-update-round-22
Thanks. Interesting, “he didn’t have power in his knee so we pulled him out for a conditioning block”?? Not sure what all that means other than to say he’s incredibly injury prone.
Thanks. Interesting, “he didn’t have power in his knee so we pulled him out for a conditioning block”?? Not sure what all that means other than to say he’s incredibly injury prone.
They just gave him 3 years, i think they have a better idea than us about his susceptibility?
Kennedy was probably BoG for the magoos but finished the game injured.
Hasn’t been reported anywhere, he’d be a decent chance to return this week if fit.
Matt Kennedy aside. DT should not endure with Land, Fisher or O'Brien.
They just gave him 3 years, i think they have a better idea than us about his susceptibility?
For the record, I love Cunningham but it’s just a fact that he’s injury prone.
Thanks. Interesting, “he didn’t have power in his knee so we pulled him out for a conditioning block”?? Not sure what all that means other than to say he’s incredibly injury prone.
Maybe they rushed him back before properly putting him through his paces ?
Maybe they rushed him back before properly putting him through his paces ?
If they did, it's a bad error because that's why we pay Guru Russell the big bucks....to get it right.
If they did, it's a bad error because that's why we pay Guru Russell the big bucks....to get it right.
Yes, no doubt. If he can get Cuningham playing regular footy (and Marchbank and a few others) then he really is a guru. At least Setterfield has played most games this season. Progress.