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Grand Final

Brisbane prevailed with a (relative) flurry of goals in the last quarter.  The difference between the two teams was mainly  Brisbane’s ability to hold marks.

Watching without a dog in the fight provided a different perspective.  Mrs DJC commented on the players’ inability to hold marks and that extended to an inability to gather ground balls cleanly.  That contributed to opportunities for tackling as did poor decision-making; turning into trouble and ill-timed disposals.

Sexual dimorphism doesn’t help with marking and sure ball handling but I think there’s another factor; under-developed instinctive game awareness.

Despite all of that, it was an entertaining game with plenty of great passages of play and individual efforts.

What does it mean for us?

I think that our list is focused on speed and our players are too easily brushed aside.  We need to add size and strength without sacrificing too much run.
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

Re: Grand Final

Reply #1
Your comments highlight the fundamental problem with AFLW, there is such a strong desire to try and play the same game style as the men that is detracting from the spectacle.

I remain convinced, the first AFLW team that lets' go of the "Play like the Boys" mindset, will have it's Barassi / Hopkins moment and change AFLW forever.

If it stays anchored and focussed on the power and strength aspects of footy, it will forever be the poorer cousin of the AFL.
The Force Awakens!

Re: Grand Final

Reply #2
Your comments highlight the fundamental problem with AFLW, there is such a strong desire to try and play the same game style as the men that is detracting from the spectacle.

I remain convinced, the first AFLW team that lets' go of the "Play like the Boys" mindset, will have it's Barassi / Hopkins moment and change AFLW forever.

If it stays anchored and focussed on the power and strength aspects of footy, it will forever be the poorer cousin of the AFL.

I’m not sure that’s going to happen LP.

Brisbane (and Adelaide) has built its game around power and strength while we’ve taken a different path, or perhaps we were forced down that route.  Either way, we’re not going to trouble the better teams with our current list and gamestyle.

I think that the women’s game will change incrementally as players become more instinctive in their decision-making and coaches find ways to compensate for small hands.

Bucky should be insisting that our players handle footies at every opportunity and build a repertoire of ball handling tricks.
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

Re: Grand Final

Reply #3
Congratulations to Brisbane on a fine win.

But I can't wait until we say Carlton up there instead.
Mind you, altering the ground so it only take 13800 is not a great idea, but ...
Live Long and Prosper!

Re: Grand Final

Reply #4
Your comments highlight the fundamental problem with AFLW, there is such a strong desire to try and play the same game style as the men that is detracting from the spectacle.

I remain convinced, the first AFLW team that lets' go of the "Play like the Boys" mindset, will have it's Barassi / Hopkins moment and change AFLW forever.

If it stays anchored and focussed on the power and strength aspects of footy, it will forever be the poorer cousin of the AFL.

You've posted this on no less than a dozen occassions by my count and almost everytime i point out how wrong this statement is.

AFLW IS a different game to the men.

Different size ball.
Different rules.
Different length of game.
Different amount of players on the ground.
Different amount of players on the bench.
I'm not sure what else you want changed before you accept this fact?
Perhaps you want a round ball on a rectangle oval, shooting at a rectanglar goal without using your hands? Thats a different kind of football, its called soccer.

There is an oval ball.
There is an oval ground.
There are the same amount of posts at each end and the same amount of points given for scoring.
There are marks, kicks and handballs.

A lot of the other stuff is different.

Re: Grand Final

Reply #5
I stand by my assertion, the AFL style bumps, the tackles, the stuff the players want to be the same as the men's game disproportionately kills momentum in AFLW. There is no point denying it, it descends into an under age like scrum all too easily, and that negatively impacts the scoring.

There is absolutely no point commentators calling a scoring fest of 3 or 4 goals, it's a lie the media perpetrate and everybody knows it, it's now becoming a parody!

The girls no matter how great the physical differences on field, more often than not are completely unable to shrug or stand in tackles and dispose. Sure, you get examples / incidents that contradict this, but they are exceptions.

Without momentum, the bulk of AFLW players can barely handball 5m, outside of throws stopping the players momentum locks the footy into a 5m radius, and from there the game descends into chaos all too often. As much as it might be fun to play, the spectacle then becomes ordinary as Mrs DJC seems to point out.

I am and always will be an AFLW booster, but if we ignore the perceptions of casual fans we doom the sport, because it's living a lie.
The Force Awakens!

Re: Grand Final

Reply #6
In the end it probably does come down to a product that appeals to a broad range of spectators.
And the problem is for each of us that's probably different.

Personally I'm not that interested in watching a product that's a poor imitation of the men's game.
I knew the Grand Final was on yesterday but by the time I got around to changing the channel the Lions were already celebrating.
I've tried, and I'll watch bits and pieces of games.
I think the skills have improved.
But it just doesn't work for me at the moment.
It's about as interesting as an Under 18 game as far as I'm concerned.
Watchable, but not for extended periods
So what would get me sitting watching games on a regular basis.

High soring, fast moving, highly skilled, the occasional bit of brilliance or spectacular.
Does that come with time?
...certainly elements like the skill improvement does.
But I tend to agree that the physicality seems to slow play to a greater extent than the men's game.

The problem is though that for many that physical aspect is a positive rather than a negative and finding a balance is a tricky exercise.

Re: Grand Final

Reply #7
I stand by my assertion, the AFL style bumps, the tackles, the stuff the players want to be the same as the men's game disproportionately kills momentum in AFLW. There is no point denying it, it descends into an under age like scrum all too easily, and that negatively impacts the scoring.

There is absolutely no point commentators calling a scoring fest of 3 or 4 goals, it's a lie the media perpetrate and everybody knows it, it's now becoming a parody!

The girls no matter how great the physical differences on field, more often than not are completely unable to shrug or stand in tackles and dispose. Sure, you get examples / incidents that contradict this, but they are exceptions.

Without momentum, the bulk of AFLW players can barely handball 5m, outside of throws stopping the players momentum locks the footy into a 5m radius, and from there the game descends into chaos all too often. As much as it might be fun to play, the spectacle then becomes ordinary as Mrs DJC seems to point out.

I am and always will be an AFLW booster, but if we ignore the perceptions of casual fans we doom the sport, because it's living a lie.

What you are describing is the end result of the skill level.
A skill level that has been diluted due to expanding too much too soon.

Once the 5yo's who grew up playing the game come through, the skill level will rise and the 'problems' you describe will minimise.

Of course another factor is the types of grounds the girls play on by comparison to the AFL. Was it earlier this year that one of the girls kicked a goal from the centre square thanks to the breeze. You don't get those kind of conditions in AFL because of the enclosed stadiums. You do in the VFL and you get similar 'scrum-type' football.


Re: Grand Final

Reply #8
If you want an advertisement as to why the AFL pays big dollars for international artists to perform at the mens GF, you only had to watch the AFLW GF pre-game. They had some artist call GFlip who is apparently Australian and an international star. I have no idea who she is, all I heard was some woman yelling for 15 mins or so! It was embarrassing.

After a slow start, the game was quite entertaining.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: Grand Final

Reply #9
If you want an advertisement as to why the AFL pays big dollars for international artists to perform at the mens GF, you only had to watch the AFLW GF pre-game. They had some artist call GFlip who is apparently Australian and an international star. I have no idea who she is, all I heard was some woman yelling for 15 mins or so! It was embarrassing.

After a slow start, the game was quite entertaining.

Gflip did the mens 2021 AFL GF.....or was part of it at least.

Re: Grand Final

Reply #10
So often during the game, the term 'brutal' was continually used and was backed up by the actions of many players on the ground and well done to them. Their attack on the ball and player was exceptional. .

It made for a good spectacle............but do mothers walk away from watching that saying 'THAT'S the sport I want my daughter to play!!"

 I would argue that the skill, fitness and professionalism of the Matildas would be far more attractive to parents than the self confessed 'brutality' of AFLW at the highest level.

Re: Grand Final

Reply #11
So often during the game, the term 'brutal' was continually used and was backed up by the actions of many players on the ground and well done to them. Their attack on the ball and player was exceptional. .

It made for a good spectacle............but do mothers walk away from watching that saying 'THAT'S the sport I want my daughter to play!!"

 I would argue that the skill, fitness and professionalism of the Matildas would be far more attractive to parents than the self confessed 'brutality' of AFLW at the highest level.

Probably not ... but that's why lots of girls are busting a gut to play AFLW and why the women's game will never "evolve" into something radically different to the men's game.
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

Re: Grand Final

Reply #12
If you want an advertisement as to why the AFL pays big dollars for international artists to perform at the mens GF, you only had to watch the AFLW GF pre-game. They had some artist call GFlip who is apparently Australian and an international star. I have no idea who she is, all I heard was some woman yelling for 15 mins or so! It was embarrassing.

After a slow start, the game was quite entertaining.

Mate, that probably says more about you.
I’d say the AFLW actually targeted and got a direct hit with Gflip.
As opposed to the afl literally rolling out a procession of wheelchairs with geriatrics who have been unheard of for 40 years, but that says a lot about me…
Let’s go BIG !

Re: Grand Final

Reply #13
Mate, that probably says more about you.
I’d say the AFLW actually targeted and got a direct hit with Gflip.
As opposed to the afl literally rolling out a procession of wheelchairs with geriatrics who have been unheard of for 40 years, but that says a lot about me…

Exactly.

The reason i remembered gflip did the mens/AFL grand final is because a friends daughter had no interest in watching the actual footy, but demanded to be told when it was time for the half-time show just for her 5 minutes of fame.

Which is exactly what the AFL wanted. To target a different audience. It worked.

Re: Grand Final

Reply #14
Exactly.

The reason i remembered gflip did the mens/AFL grand final is because a friends daughter had no interest in watching the actual footy, but demanded to be told when it was time for the half-time show just for her 5 minutes of fame.

Which is exactly what the AFL wanted. To target a different audience. It worked.
I must admit I've never heard of the woman before. But I'm not in their target audience.
But then, I don't know any modern performer: doesn't go well with Tchaikovskiy or Wagner of Richard Strauss. :)
Live Long and Prosper!