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Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 5: Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #225
Ouch, probably no greater insult than to liken me to Anthony Robbins.

Unlike Robbins, in my work when I work with my clients on such things as, say, excellence... we pull it apart to see what it means to them - then I stick around to help with the 'fallout' of change... very  unlike Robbins.

Apologies for the Robbins reference. That was unnecessary. I have a real problem with buzzwords, because I think they can mean different things to different people, and left unresolved and unchecked, they cause more problems than they solve. We have no idea what happens behind the scenes. We have no idea whether Teague or anyone else demands ruthlessness, persistence, team work etc. Sure, I can look up 20 different dictionary definitions of such words, but how do they manifest themselves in actions ?

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 5: Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #226
The players go through the motions, because they know, as soon as it gets hard, the coach will be sacked and it wont matter what they do anyway.

If you have value, you will be shipped off for a high draft pick.

If you are a high draft pick you will get games no matter how poorly you play.

If you are a battler, you will get dropped the first sign of a form dip.

If you play poorly, the coach will cop it in the neck and the whipping boys will wear the fallout for your inability to perform your role, irrespective of how much time someone like Plowman spends covering up someone elses mistakes. 

Players develop in spite of us not because of us, and most players fail to develop because of us.

Rinse, repeat. 

THIS is the mantra of the Carlton footy club.  22 years later, THIS is what we stand for.

It's a major worry if, after 6000 players in and out, we still draft and trade players who pick and choose. SOS picked a fair few players on our list, and if he, of all people, can't recognise blokes who will play for the jumper and put in 100%, then we really should hand our licence back to the AFL, and just relive the glory days over and over. If what you say is true, we are really just wasting our time. I don't believe it's true.

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 5: Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #227
Culture.

And who is responsible for building, improving and maintaining culture?

As just one example, look at the Fluffy Ducks. What they stand for; their culture is unmistakable. Newbies come in and lift to the standards expected. In some respects, the very antithesis of us.

The Swans spent 72 years in AFL/VFL no man's land, were basically on their knees for ages, and only survived  because the AFL made a nice Faustian pact with them : move to Sydney or die. They have their stuff together now, but whether it's luck or design, who really knows ? It was an incredibly long road for them, and it may be for us as well. Who the hell knows what makes clubs successful ? The clubs themselves don't seem to, that's for sure.

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 5: Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #228
I have formed an opinion of why nothing changes, and its not because nothing changes, its because too many changes.

I work in IT.

When we face one particular issue, the worst thing you can do, is change multiple things at once without knowing precisely what reaction you are going to have.

You need to work through the issue systematically starting with a root cause analysis.

Then you start fixing what you have perceived the issue is, starting with some of the most basic and fundamental changes and working your way down the list.

The scorched earth policy is the last resort of the IT worker *this is a wipe and reinstallation of whatever you are doing from the beginning, or a replacement of said system/device*.

We started with scorched earth and are trying to get a system online and are having people complain that its not working yet when we have barely even begun (for reference see noise re teague and ability to coach).

I've always argued that we should never have gone down the 'rebuild' track.
Stupid, stupid idea that was never guaranteed to be successful.
We're virtually back to where we were at the start of 2015, before we started this journey.
But that's history now and we're committed to this path.
Probably shouldn't call it a rebuild anymore though.


The problem is we see clubs like Brisbane who just a few years ago were in a similar bottom position to where we found ourselves and have quickly bought themselves back to a more than competitive level.

IT may give us a good example of process.
But it lacks one key element and that's the emotional factor.
Folks aren't upset  at just this season.
They're upset at the last 20 years.

Why are some more impatient?
Well folks around my age can't afford another 20 years....we're likely to not be around.
Maybe that's an emotional response....but emotion is the heart of this game.


Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 5: Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #229
It's a major worry if, after 6000 players in and out, we still draft and trade players who pick and choose. SOS picked a fair few players on our list, and if he, of all people, can't recognise blokes who will play for the jumper and put in 100%, then we really should hand our licence back to the AFL, and just relive the glory days over and over. If what you say is true, we are really just wasting our time. I don't believe it's true.

Cottrell is getting a game because he puts in, couldn't get a kick at U18 level, think that tells  a story about some of our other higher fancied draftees.
Robbins is a sleazy salesman, his books are a waste of money and are over hyped like his cheesy smile and personality.

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 5: Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #230
@Lods

Lods, I don't think a rebuild per se is necessarily a problem. The key is to make sure you have the right people, processes and organization to do it properly.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 5: Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #231
Cottrell is getting a game because he puts in, couldn't get a kick at U18 level, think that tells  a story about some of our other higher fancied draftees.
Robbins is a sleazy salesman, his books are a waste of money and are over hyped like his cheesy smile and personality.
He was used primarily as a tagger in juniors but under AFL directions tagging and zones isn't a feature of play because they want more one on one contests. This leaves a lot of good footballers unable to make use of natural aerobic capacity. So it's a bit unfair to comment on his U18s form.
The Force Awakens!

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 5: Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #232
There is a bit of discussion on the Jim Parks Medal site about me believing Docherty was our best player. I am not sure that is the site we should be having those discussions. As far as I am concerned on that site it is show your cards then read them and weep.
If you check the stats and look at number of possessions and meters gained, Docherty is up there but that is not how I judge a game. I try and look at how a player plays within the context of the game. As far as I was concerned the ability of Port Adelaide to win the ball from our poor ball use going forward, decision making and lack of teaming, combined with their skills meant that the defence was under constant pressure and considering Jones, Williamson and SPS had shockers down back, the hard work of effective defending  to keep us in the game was down to Saad, Docherty, Weitering and Plowman and while Weitering got better as the game went along, I thought Docherty was the one who was always the last line of defence, putting his body on the line and playing a Captain's and team game.
I mark Walsh down because in my view, even though he gets a lot of the ball and he is very clean and his ball use is pretty good, I don't see him bringing others into the game or impacting by changing the direction of the game with the possessions he gets. I believe he has the capacity to do both of those things but he is yet to do it.
This is the last time I will explain myself.

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 5: Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #233
There is a bit of discussion on the Jim Parks Medal site about me believing Docherty was our best player. I am not sure that is the site we should be having those discussions. As far as I am concerned on that site it is show your cards then read them and weep.
If you check the stats and look at number of possessions and meters gained, Docherty is up there but that is not how I judge a game. I try and look at how a player plays within the context of the game. As far as I was concerned the ability of Port Adelaide to win the ball from our poor ball use going forward, decision making and lack of teaming, combined with their skills meant that the defence was under constant pressure and considering Jones, Williamson and SPS had shockers down back, the hard work of effective defending  to keep us in the game was down to Saad, Docherty, Weitering and Plowman and while Weitering got better as the game went along, I thought Docherty was the one who was always the last line of defence, putting his body on the line and playing a Captain's and team game.
I mark Walsh down because in my view, even though he gets a lot of the ball and he is very clean and his ball use is pretty good, I don't see him bringing others into the game or impacting by changing the direction of the game with the possessions he gets. I believe he has the capacity to do both of those things but he is yet to do it.
This is the last time I will explain myself.
It's OK @Blue Moon‍ , we are all allowed an opinion.

Fwiw I thought Doc was OK as well, his clangers didn't negate his overall effort. We were never in that game, Port controlled the narrative from the 1st to last second, fans write commentary about Doc like he sold the farm, hardly!

When Dixon cleaned up Doc, and he did so at least twice when Doc put his body on the line, that triggers those later fumbles you've got a player sore and nervous. Instead of turning on Doc, fans should be asking how Doc's team-mates let the Dixon stuff happen, who jumped out of the way and didn't have Doc's back! Who didn't even up the ledger!
The Force Awakens!

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 5: Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #234
Apologies for the Robbins reference. That was unnecessary. I have a real problem with buzzwords, because I think they can mean different things to different people, and left unresolved and unchecked, they cause more problems than they solve. We have no idea what happens behind the scenes. We have no idea whether Teague or anyone else demands ruthlessness, persistence, team work etc. Sure, I can look up 20 different dictionary definitions of such words, but how do they manifest themselves in actions ?


Believe me, Pauly, I also do not like buzzwords - trite, shallow and lazy where meaningful, substantial and strong change is required. But then I deal with people and life at a deeper level than motivation seminars as the cure all - and that's where I find Robbins dangerous, thinking that 'positive thinking' will magically cure certain mental health issues. An expensive week or w/e of ra ra for everyday folks is fine, as long as you don't expect lasting benefits - maybe 1% will get a lasting benefit but the rest were just entertained by a charismatic, well-meaning performer for an exorbitant price.

That's why when I work with folks and if a 'buzzword' is used, we then flesh it out, give it substance and what it means to the client, not me, and how it will impact their lives for the better and what it will take to implement such a change, and very importantly, how to manage the problems inevitably caused by and associated with the change.

And if I could segway this into our club... buzzwords... We've belched buzzwords and cliches for two decades now. As I've said previously, we talk the talk, but fail to walk the talk. And that's about powerful leadership... our void. When you have a leadership void, well, you get what we've got.

No, we do not need to level the place and start again. But we do need to be honest with ourselves that strong, ruthless leadership is required to enforce the 'buzzwords', to give them substance to create a Fluffy Ducks kind of culture that can be passed from generation to generation.

People who think that the Pussy Cats and Tiggers and Dawks turned around their fortunes with a buzzword, or persisting with what was failing -- because success would be inevitable -- are kidding themselves. The things that went on behind the scenes at those 3 clubs were really quite honest and brutal. Didn't need to change an enormous amount in terms of personnel (on and off the field), just a ruthless, systematic and honest analysis of the failure attitudes and how to destroy them and then do what was necessary to institute change. And it started with Presidents/Boards and their thorough honesty and boldness and vision to force change. Our opponents this Saturday did it a few years back, around the same time as us, and look at their culture now!
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 5: Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #235
It's a major worry if, after 6000 players in and out, we still draft and trade players who pick and choose. SOS picked a fair few players on our list, and if he, of all people, can't recognise blokes who will play for the jumper and put in 100%, then we really should hand our licence back to the AFL, and just relive the glory days over and over. If what you say is true, we are really just wasting our time. I don't believe it's true.


What point are you arguing here Paulp?

I have just outlined why the culture of the place is rotten , and you don't believe a word of it, yet the post itself is a summary of how the Carlton Football Club has performed its business since the year 2001.  We are still unable to exorcise the demons and behave the same way and I hear the fans saying it too "we are not a club to be feared anymore" is the line rolled out on these very forums, yet the reason why that is, is a cause and effect of our whole of club approach and that's what causes players not to buy in.

We have won more wooden spoons and had more high draft picks than almost any other team in the competition and still look much the same every week.  A haphazard approach to playing footy.

The repetition of that cycle causes what LP labels pavlov's dogs.  He points to the kids as being developed that way through adversity by the approach and to a degree he has nailed that.  The club is the one that is placing them in the position of adversity.  The thing is, it isn't restricted to the kids.  Its even affecting a guy like Cripps now.  Its like quicksand.  It eventually drags everyone down to a certain level.

"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 5: Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #236
There is a bit of discussion on the Jim Parks Medal site about me believing Docherty was our best player. I am not sure that is the site we should be having those discussions. As far as I am concerned on that site it is show your cards then read them and weep.
If you check the stats and look at number of possessions and meters gained, Docherty is up there but that is not how I judge a game. I try and look at how a player plays within the context of the game. As far as I was concerned the ability of Port Adelaide to win the ball from our poor ball use going forward, decision making and lack of teaming, combined with their skills meant that the defence was under constant pressure and considering Jones, Williamson and SPS had shockers down back, the hard work of effective defending  to keep us in the game was down to Saad, Docherty, Weitering and Plowman and while Weitering got better as the game went along, I thought Docherty was the one who was always the last line of defence, putting his body on the line and playing a Captain's and team game.
I mark Walsh down because in my view, even though he gets a lot of the ball and he is very clean and his ball use is pretty good, I don't see him bringing others into the game or impacting by changing the direction of the game with the possessions he gets. I believe he has the capacity to do both of those things but he is yet to do it.
This is the last time I will explain myself.

Doc has also been getting better, each week, this year.  I think we can cut him some slack, after so long off.

I agree, he does make the odd howler, that stand out for all to see, but, geez he puts in, and is generally in the exact right position

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 5: Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #237
He was used primarily as a tagger in juniors but under AFL directions tagging and zones isn't a feature of play because they want more one on one contests. This leaves a lot of good footballers unable to make use of natural aerobic capacity. So it's a bit unfair to comment on his U18s form.
I watched a bit of him at U18 level and he was hardly a standout even with his tagging, had a very ordinary final too and
I doubt too many teams would have had him on their radar so thats probably a tick for SOS.
The point of my post is a unheralded battler is getting preferred over some very fancied high picks because he works his ar$e off and will give you 100% every time he fronts up and that is great but in reality tells a tale of where we are.

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 5: Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #238
What point are you arguing here Paulp?

I have just outlined why the culture of the place is rotten , and you don't believe a word of it, yet the post itself is a summary of how the Carlton Football Club has performed its business since the year 2001.  We are still unable to exorcise the demons and behave the same way and I hear the fans saying it too "we are not a club to be feared anymore" is the line rolled out on these very forums, yet the reason why that is, is a cause and effect of our whole of club approach and that's what causes players not to buy in.

We have won more wooden spoons and had more high draft picks than almost any other team in the competition and still look much the same every week.  A haphazard approach to playing footy.

The repetition of that cycle causes what LP labels pavlov's dogs.  He points to the kids as being developed that way through adversity by the approach and to a degree he has nailed that.  The club is the one that is placing them in the position of adversity.  The thing is, it isn't restricted to the kids.  Its even affecting a guy like Cripps now.  Its like quicksand.  It eventually drags everyone down to a certain level.

Your point, as I understand it, is that our players pick and choose, or give up easily, and they have done so for 20 years. If this is true, then they are either born that way or made that way. If they are born that way, and we continue to select those types, then we have a problem. If they are made to become like that, because of things inside the 4 walls at Ikon Park, then we have a huge, massive problem, and we are not fit to be called a professional sporting club.

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 5: Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #239
The point of my post is a unheralded battler is getting preferred over some very fancied high picks because he works his ar$e off and will give you 100% every time he fronts up and that is great but in reality tells a tale of where we are.
He'll be fine, he could even be leadership material long term, not just at the level of looks but at a game day level he is not too dissimilar to the early Mitch Robinson who now has two B&Fs, or even Liam Jones who looked to have all the ability but was lost early in his career!

Every club needs a few foot soldiers, the ones who crack in no matter what the order!

When we start regularly getting the best out of these guys, we are probably on the right track!
The Force Awakens!