One of the greatest ruckmen ever to contest a centre bounce, Essendon great Simon Madden, said he expected Kreuzer to blossom over the next 100 or 150 games.
"I have this general theory on footballers that you learn the game in the first 50 games, and you start to understand it in the next 50,'' he said.
"And after that you can begin to have a real influence on the game.''
Madden said he believed Kreuzer had "all the makings of a great ruckman".
"He's got a good leap, he's a decent size, his ruck skills are good, he's mobile and he can take a strong mark.
"At 24, and with 100 games behind him, he's got a lot of time to keep improving and he should just be coming into his peak years.''
http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport/afl/ruck-great-simon-madden-believes-blue-matthew-kreuzer-will-blossom-over-the-next-100-games/story-fnia3ybj-1226681642570
What are you doing Sheik. Kreuzer is rated as only an AVERAGE ruckman. Average at best. Stop stirring the pot as he needs to be traded for needs in this list. He is way over the top in how we rate him.
What are you doing Sheik. Kreuzer is rated as only an AVERAGE ruckman. Average at best. Stop stirring the pot as he needs to be traded for needs in this list. He is way over the top in how we rate him.
I knew you'd get here on the double. :)
Ah Mantis, you're a funny man !!
Just need his possession count and contested mark numbers to rise (on a consistent basis) and he will be a superstar !!!
What are you doing Sheik. Kreuzer is rated as only an AVERAGE ruckman. Average at best. Stop stirring the pot as he needs to be traded for needs in this list. He is way over the top in how we rate him.
(http://chicoa.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/yawning-humor-fun-pictures-34.jpg)
"He's got a good leap, he's a decent size, his ruck skills are good, he's mobile and he can take a strong mark.
The last comment is absolute BS, he cannot even get near to taking a strong contested mark. He dropped one uncontested inside 50m last week and the other he took without pressure he almost dropped when Jones failed to fly. You can't be a gun ruck unless you're taking contested marks around the ground IMO, look at Warnock, he has clear deficiencies in this area as well but his ruckwork is better.
Kreuzer is so far ahead of other ruckmen his age, and for that matter many much older, that his debate is not even worth consideration.
KREUZE CONTROL
How Matthew Kreuzer stacks up against four stand-out premiership ruckmen at similar stages of their careers:
MATTHEW KREUZER:
100 games, just turned 24
Averages 12 disposals, 3 marks, 17 hit outs
0.55 goals a game.
BRAD OTTENS:
100 games (2003), 23.5yo
Averaged 12 disposals, 5 marks, 13.5 hit outs
1.2 goals a game
DARREN JOLLY:
100 games (2007), 25.5yo
Averaged 7 disposals, 2 marks, 15.5 hit outs
0.25 goals a game
DEAN COX:
100 games (2005), 24yo
Averaged 12 disposals, 4.5 marks, 18.5 hitouts
0.45 goals a game
COREY MCKERNAN:
100 games (1998), 24.5yo
Averaged 14 disposals, 5 marks, 8.5 hitouts
1 goal a game
...AND COMPARED TO LUKE DARCY
LUKE DARCY:
100 games (2000), 24.7yo
Averaged 12 disposals, 5 marks, 13 hitouts
0.68 goals a game
Kruze is on track. God, as Mick said, has he been comprehensively smashed this year? Only reason this is getting so much attention is because he is a #1 pick and Cotchin was #2 and people compare the two's development - and forget that big men (especially those who lost 2 years to injury) take longer.
So he is in fact averaging substantially less marks than most others which is where my concerns lie. More importantly he doesn't even get his hands to the ball in a lot of those contests. Not sure there's a stat that reflects that.
On a side note, where did you get those stats?
So he is in fact averaging substantially less marks than most others which is where my concerns lie. More importantly he doesn't even get his hands to the ball in a lot of those contests. Not sure there's a stat that reflects that.
On a side note, where did you get those stats?
You can get them from Footywire if you're patient.
I put a similar thing together a few weeks back comparing Casboult's output over his first 10 games to Ablett Snr, Wayne Carey, Jono Brown, Brendan Fevola, Travis Cloke and Buddy Franklin.
The only player close to reaching Casboult's levels in those 10 games was Wayne Carey, and Casboult still had him beat ;).
So he is in fact averaging substantially less marks than most others which is where my concerns lie. More importantly he doesn't even get his hands to the ball in a lot of those contests. Not sure there's a stat that reflects that.
On a side note, where did you get those stats?
Ahh FFS, some of you blokes rubberise more stuff than Ansell.
Kreuzer and for that matter all our 1st rucks look favorable against those guys. Our blokes had been doing it mostly solo as we have been unable to get more than one of them on the park with any reliability.
Darcy spent most of his first hundred games getting slops off Scott Wynd.
Cox followed Gardiner around like a little dog then had Seaby to assist him.
Jolly was 2IC to White for the bulk of his first 100, White was borderline AA at the time.
Ottens had Gale and later Gale and Stafford when Ottens went forward.
McKernan had Ischenko and Capuano, and in terms of marking spent about half his time as the decoy tall next to bloke called Carey who attracted four defenders and I won't even count Longmire!
Kreuzer has been our 1st ruck outright for his whole career without a peer to guide him!!!
So he is in fact averaging substantially less marks than most others which is where my concerns lie. More importantly he doesn't even get his hands to the ball in a lot of those contests. Not sure there's a stat that reflects that.
On a side note, where did you get those stats?
So you pick the one stat that he falls down on to have concerns. Looks like P2C's your glass is now completely empty :)
So he is in fact averaging substantially less marks than most others which is where my concerns lie. More importantly he doesn't even get his hands to the ball in a lot of those contests. Not sure there's a stat that reflects that.
On a side note, where did you get those stats?
Bottom of the article about Kruze in the Herald Sun.
So he is in fact averaging substantially less marks than most others which is where my concerns lie. More importantly he doesn't even get his hands to the ball in a lot of those contests. Not sure there's a stat that reflects that.
On a side note, where did you get those stats?
So you pick the one stat that he falls down on to have concerns. Looks like P2C's your glass is now completely empty :)
Mate read my posts re Kreuzer this is his one deficiency that I've been pointing out for quite sometime. Not like I read it and went with it.
Bigger blokes take longer to come along.
B.O.G 8)
Kreuzer was better but had the fumbles at ground level too often. He did work hard, but he needs some support too. From mids that have been brought into the squad as high draft picks or traded in.
cant really compare those stats of 10+ years ago to today. totally different game.
ablett gets 40 possies a week, back then 20 possies was considered a good game.
irrelevant stats. im happy with his development. its probably the next 5 years people should really start to compare ruckman, the 25-30 age bracket imo.
cant really compare those stats of 10+ years ago to today. totally different game.
ablett gets 40 possies a week, back then 20 possies was considered a good game.
irrelevant stats. im happy with his development. its probably the next 5 years people should really start to compare ruckman, the 25-30 age bracket imo.
It's the next 5 years that are a worry. He isn't overly blessed with any natural outstanding physical attribute other than a massive work ethic and ground coverage, but given the way he plays the game and the workload he carries, how long before his ability to cover that same ground diminishes, what do you with him then.
Kreuzer definitely got on top as Goldstein tired. A great confidence booster for him for sure. Looked worth his #1 pick status last night late in the game with some telling marks.
Phenomenal performance from Kreuzer, his game saving marks reminded me of Kouta.
Consistent performances like his 2nd half last night will make him a star !!
OMG.
One minute this kid is a spud, and rubbish as a number 1 pick, and all of a sudden over night he is worth his weight in gold ?? Hang on a moment guys and give him a few more games. Give him a chance to earn his overrated as number 1 pick all over again. I'm sure he will come good and drop form soon again. Don't drop your opinions based on one game. He only had one opponent so how good is he in all honesty. Shanked his easy effort in front of goal. Sure it was an angle but out of bounds on the full. Really ?? Can't any see his mistakes last night ? Don't forget he is only average as an AFL footballer right ? Isn't that what has been said ? He isn't a match winner. He didn't kick the winning goal. Just saved the game by saving a potential goal. Nothing more, nothing less. ;D
OMG.
One minute this kid is a spud, and rubbish as a number 1 pick, and all of a sudden over night he is worth his weight in gold ?? Hang on a moment guys and give him a few more games. Give him a chance to earn his overrated as number 1 pick all over again. I'm sure he will come good and drop form soon again. Don't drop your opinions based on one game. He only had one opponent so how good is he in all honesty. Shanked his easy effort in front of goal. Sure it was an angle but out of bounds on the full. Really ?? Can't any see his mistakes last night ? Don't forget he is only average as an AFL footballer right ? Isn't that what has been said ? He isn't a match winner. He didn't kick the winning goal. Just saved the game by saving a potential goal. Nothing more, nothing less. ;D
;D
That was one of the best games from Kreuzer since his knee injury.
Goldstein won the hitouts decisively but Kreuzer was far more effective around the ground, particularly in the second half. His four contested marks, two at crucial times, are a huge improvement.
Kreuzer has the ability to rack up possessions around the ground but I am not sure if he knows where to position himself to do that. Capuano was an OK tap ruckman but I don't really remember him doing much else. If Kreuzer is to realize his potential, he needs a mentor or tutor to teach him how to position himself to give the defence a chop out, provide a link around the ground and drift forward and be an offensive threat.
Hampson and Warnock could/should be part of the class too.
If he can repeat that effort another handful of times this season then I'm a believer.
Until then.
MATTHEW KREUZER:
100 games, just turned 24
Averages 12 disposals, 3 marks, 17 hit outs
0.55 goals a game.
I'd like to see first 50 games vs second 50 games
That was one of the best games from Kreuzer since his knee injury.
Goldstein won the hitouts decisively but Kreuzer was far more effective around the ground, particularly in the second half. His four contested marks, two at crucial times, are a huge improvement.
Kreuzer has the ability to rack up possessions around the ground but I am not sure if he knows where to position himself to do that. Capuano was an OK tap ruckman but I don't really remember him doing much else. If Kreuzer is to realize his potential, he needs a mentor or tutor to teach him how to position himself to give the defence a chop out, provide a link around the ground and drift forward and be an offensive threat.
Hampson and Warnock could/should be part of the class too.
This is quite a good post, Kreuzer is a victim of his supreme stoppage skills. He has never had to do this stuff throughout his junior career because it was all forward of the stoppage.
I think Warnock just needs to actually get involved.
Hampson works around the ground well but needs to hang onto more marks.
I know his supporters will arc up, but Casboult needs to learn to ruck.
Casboult needs to learn to kick first. If he gets that part of his game going he will be an asset like no other. Sure he has other small developing needs, but kicking goals would be his first need.
Based on his last 2 games, something seems to have clicked.
I'm expecting big things from Kreuzer ........ O0
Assuming this is the closest thread we have to a Kreuzer thread?
If not apologies.
So another 5 weeks at best on his current injury:
http://www.carltonfc.com.au/news-and-media/athelite-nutrition-medical-room
If that's the case, no games this season, let him heal up properly and get a full preseason into him in 2015.
I know its crystal balling but what do we do MK come season 2015?
Ruck? resting forward?
OR will MM try and turn him into a half back flanker or full back? :P
Trade him he will never be anything unfortunately ,while at it lets get rid of knockers THE FLYING NUN marks NONE none kicks NONE
I'm not so sure that Kreuz will ever fully recover from his injury(ies) and I have grave doubts as to his future career with us unfortunately. As I've posted before, he is actively now considering possible career options post footy. At his age this is not promising.
Assuming this is the closest thread we have to a Kreuzer thread?
If not apologies.
So another 5 weeks at best on his current injury:
http://www.carltonfc.com.au/news-and-media/athelite-nutrition-medical-room
If that's the case, no games this season, let him heal up properly and get a full preseason into him in 2015.
I know its crystal balling but what do we do MK come season 2015?
Ruck? resting forward?
OR will MM try and turn him into a half back flanker or full back? :P
He's too small to ruck in 2015! ;)
Trade him he will never be anything unfortunately ,while at it lets get rid of knockers THE FLYING NUN marks NONE none kicks NONE
It's painful to come to the above conclusion because he symbolized the light at the end of the darkness that existed when we drafted him, but I agree its time to trade him even so as to start afresh. Not sure trading knockers would be wise unless we get some good value in return, he at least gives us first use, it's just a pity our midfield isn't good enough to capitalize.
MM has faced this same scenario before with Josh Frazer. There won't be any favors for MK based solely on potential, he'll have to earn whatever spot he gets, if he indeed gets one. MM has already alluded to this in a prior media comment.
I doubt we'll trade him this year, but one things for sure, whatever happens -2015 it'll be a telling year for MK.
Trade him he will never be anything unfortunately ,while at it lets get rid of knockers THE FLYING NUN marks NONE none kicks NONE
It's painful to come to the above conclusion because he symbolized the light at the end of the darkness that existed when we drafted him, but I agree its time to trade him even so as to start afresh. Not sure trading knockers would be wise unless we get some good value in return, he at least gives us first use, it's just a pity our midfield isn't good enough to capitalize.
Warnock is a good tap ruckman ,but gives us zilch around the ground ,even the hack WITTS beat him. I honestly thought Warnock would B.O.G I can dream on ,bring on WOOD,lets give him the opportunity.Warnock frustrates me no end >:(
MM has faced this same scenario before with Josh Frazer. There won't be any favors for MK based solely on potential, he'll have to earn whatever spot he gets, if he indeed gets one. MM has already alluded to this in a prior media comment.
I doubt we'll trade him this year, but one things for sure, whatever happens -2015 it'll be a telling year for MK.
He did play 11 seasons with them and then left as a what was effectively a free agent. Bit of a stretch to say he didn't do him any favours.
MM has faced this same scenario before with Josh Frazer. There won't be any favors for MK based solely on potential, he'll have to earn whatever spot he gets, if he indeed gets one. MM has already alluded to this in a prior media comment.
I doubt we'll trade him this year, but one things for sure, whatever happens -2015 it'll be a telling year for MK.
He did play 11 seasons with them and then left as a what was effectively a free agent. Bit of a stretch to say he didn't do him any favours.
Reference to favors aimed at Kruiz rather than Frazer. Furthermore Frazer turned into an effective marking and goal kicking forward Ruckman , something absent from Kruiz's game since his first 2 seasons.
I thought you meant the scenario was the same in terms of how they are managed. If so, I hope Mick takes a different approach to MK and his potential.
Trade
Trade
The guy has been injured for 3 years. What are we going to get?
Trade
The guy has been injured for 3 years. What are we going to get?
whatever the market pays
Trade
The guy has been injured for 3 years. What are we going to get?
Well if we are 0-4 again next season, MK needs to pay plenty to get his price tag up.
Massive season for him in 2015 indeed.
SpecialK back in training, should be ready for finals! ;)
SpecialK back in training, should be ready for finals! ;)
in 2016?
I'd like to repay his loyalty by trading him to a club where he can taste success.
shoenmakers + a pick will get it done
shoenmakers + a pick will get it done
Another undersized defender? I'd give up.
I'd like to repay his loyalty by trading him to a club where he can taste success.
shoenmakers + a pick will get it done
Shoenmakers....please tell me you're taking the p!ss......
I'd like to repay his loyalty by trading him to a club where he can taste success.
shoenmakers + a pick will get it done
Shoenmakers....please tell me you're taking the p!ss......
Dawks don't need a ruckmen anymore, in fact as of last trade period few clubs do!
If I was going to trade Kruezer it would be to GWS or GC where I could pick up a good kid or two and try and get a return on the No 1 pick used for MK..
The going rate for rucks seems to be about pick 30-40 and with MK having his injury problems and needing a season to prove he is fit it aint going to happen in a hurry and we wouldnt be getting much back...
re: Sconemakers...no thanks.........
If I was going to trade Kruezer it would be to GWS or GC where I could pick up a good kid or two and try and get a return on the No 1 pick used for MK..
The going rate for rucks seems to be about pick 30-40 and with MK having his injury problems and needing a season to prove he is fit it aint going to happen in a hurry and we wouldnt be getting much back...
re: Sconemakers...no thanks.........
Neither GC or GWS technically need a ruck, they have injury free kids who can fill the role just as effectively as SpecialK.
Our problem isn't keeping to trading Kreuzer, our problem is using him correctly, I have no faith that we would use a replacement any better than we have used Kreuzer. Our club b0rks up more talented players faster than babies are made, MM is particularly bad at making talented players fit his plan! I rather a coach like Roos who gives them a simple plan then lets them play to their skills and strengths.
Must keep Kreuzer till 2016. spoke to the kid at the 150th bash, and he was telling me about how he has had a bad run with injuries and it's frustrating not being able to get out there.
The guy is a talented player. He can play forward, he can play ruck. Based on his first couple of years he was good. Let's not forget Ratten tried to turn him into a full time forward too. The bloke has genuine ability below his knees, and can ruck and take a mark. You put him into a team that has other forward targets and he will blossom in much the same way David Hale has at Hawthorn.
I would have no hesitation in keeping Kreuz and focussing him on being primarily a mobile ruck and resting him forward, if he were truly over his injuries. And there's the rub, will he ever be over them?
Kreuzer will never be the player he was before his knee op.It will take a miracle for him to be anywhere near what he was .I say trade him ,we should get a 2nd round pick for him .
Sam Jacobs all is forgiven ,please come back,bring Eddie with you >:(
I would have no hesitation in keeping Kreuz and focussing him on being primarily a mobile ruck and resting him forward, if he were truly over his injuries. And there's the rub, will he ever be over them?
This is code for status quo.....
I would have no hesitation in keeping Kreuz and focussing him on being primarily a mobile ruck and resting him forward, if he were truly over his injuries. And there's the rub, will he ever be over them?
This is code for status quo.....
Didn't quite understand "status quo" MF. You mean keep him or let him go?
You put him into a team that has other forward targets and he will blossom in much the same way David Hale has at Hawthorn.
Kreuzer could play another 7 years, with future good health he will make the likes of Hale look ordinary by the time he is finished!
But there is a big if, if the MC and the coach use him correctly!
@cookie
I commented on your position
My stated position was trade
@cookie
I commented on your position
My stated position was trade
OK thanks MF. Just to clarify, my position really is that if he recovers then he'd be worth keeping. I hope he does, but I've got my doubts and in that case I don't think we'd be able to meaningfully trade him unfortunately.
If he stays injury free then he couldn't be any worse than Warnock.
Kreuzer was in the coach's box yesterday. Absolutely no chance of him going elsewhere, and neither should there be.
I'd be very surprised to see him traded. Hopefully he'll regain his full fitness and get back to being a good player for us.