Carlton Supporters Club

Good luck to all my Victorian friends on election day.
You'll need it. ;D

Best political jingle ever.

"Make this state a great state.
A modern up to date state.
Put a one in the square for the DLP ;) "

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyoMMKtx4Wo

I voted yesterday... couple of interesting observations, firstly... hostility, mostly young blokes. Secondly, older folks regardless of voting preference chatting and laughing together. Shooters party delegate was the angriest looking dude of them all, didn't want to talk with anyone! And the Family First delegate would have to be a Cyril Peabody - straight out of the fifties looking cat, the cardigan was a classic.

It's over. 4 more years of Dan.

It's over. 4 more years of Dan.

Could be worse, could have 4 years of Greens.

Could be worse, could have 4 years of Greens.

Strap yourself in, both major parties are losing numbers to Greens,  Teals and Independents.Give it a couple more elections and we might have joint party rule with Labor and the Greens.

The biggest loser is Rupert Murdoch. His influence over elections is almost non-existent. Scrolling through Apple News over the last month, the Hun/News.com.au headlines were all about Labor corruption, voter backlash, Liberals surging, anti-Dan protest votes etc. etc. They even tried to resuscitate the conspiracy theorem over Dan’s fall down the stairs. None of it worked.

I’m guessing no one reads the Murdoch rags any more (or takes it’s political stories seriously), except maybe in retirement villages where the conservative vote is strong anyway.

I didn't believe the conspiracy theory but when I actually saw the stairs lol.

The biggest loser is Rupert Murdoch. His influence over elections is almost non-existent. Scrolling through Apple News over the last month, the Hun/News.com.au headlines were all about Labor corruption, voter backlash, Liberals surging, anti-Dan protest votes etc. etc. They even tried to resuscitate the conspiracy theorem over Dan’s fall down the stairs. None of it worked.

I’m guessing no one reads the Murdoch rags any more (or takes it’s political stories seriously), except maybe in retirement villages where the conservative vote is strong anyway.

Print media has very much lost its influence.
Most folks get their daily news from the commercial TV channels and both 7 and 9 are pretty neutral.

Print media has very much lost its influence.
Most folks get their daily news from the commercial TV channels and both 7 and 9 are pretty neutral.

Social media is where it's at, the Greens, Teals etc are targeting younger voters and the female population.
Liberals have been hopeless marketing wise for a while.
Never had a Lib or Labor doorknock either but the Greens made the effort..

Could be worse, could have 4 years of Greens.

I'd prefer that to 4 years with Matthew Guy as premier.

From my first hand experience of Guy as Minister for Planning, incompetent is the kindest thing I can say.  We've really dodged a bullet tonight.

Jeff Kennett used to say that we get the politicians we deserve.  In other words, join a political party if you don't like who they're serving up as candidates.  That's fine if you're prepared to leap into the shark tank, snake pit or tofu trough.

It's over. 4 more years of Dan.

🤣

I'd prefer that to 4 years with Matthew Guy as premier.

From my first hand experience of Guy as Minister for Planning, incompetent is the kindest thing I can say.  We've really dodged a bullet tonight.

Jeff Kennett used to say that we get the politicians we deserve.  In other words, join a political party if you don't like who they're serving up as candidates.  That's fine if you're prepared to leap into the shark tank, snake pit or tofu trough.

Greens better than 4 years of Guy? You're kidding mate, I wouldn't entrust any of them to run a Tofu Bar let alone a state.

The Victorian Liberal Party needs an overhaul of epic proportions, going in with Matthew Guy sealed their fate from day one. They were never going to win and TBH the opposition were embarrassing during their covid media conferences, that also sealed their fate IMO. I do like Dan Andrew's quote, "Hope always defeats hate". Indeed it does.

As for incompetent, I had to laugh, on the ch 7 coverage last night they had Steve Bracks and the Labour Health minister, Mary Anne someone? She is an imbecile, Bracks had to constantly correct her as she stuttered her way through trying to answer questions. Here's a hint, if you going to put someone up to do media, put up a good media performer. I thought the banter between Bracks and Kennet was pretty funny also.

The problem that I think is the best explanation of what is happening to the coalition, is they listen too much to the screaming idiots. For example Andrew Bolt , Alan Jones, people who think they matter because they live in an echo chamber with a lunatic minority , and take the loudest screams as a measure of support.

The majority rules, silent or otherwise!

Should be happy with the result, it is hard proof we are not yet fully American! Trumps followers should be nervous at results like this, it's proof that the crap you throw sometimes bounces!

Daniel Andrews is our Trump.

Gotta love Bolt's headline in the Hun
Wounded Andrews should Quit :)

Gotta love Bolt's headline in the Hun
Wounded Andrews should Quit :)

Why would he quit? He's the greatest politician in our nation's history. He had as bad a term as you possibly could have and still won easy.
The Liberals are finished, they will lose more seats next election. The greens will take over quicker than we all think.

The problem that I think is the best explanation of what is happening to the coalition, is they listen too much to the screaming idiots. For example Andrew Bolt , Alan Jones, people who think they matter because they live in an echo chamber with a lunatic minority , and take the loudest screams as a measure of support.

And there you have it, Spotted One. Well said.

The far right of the LNP has hijacked the entire party moving way too far away from the Menzies model, a more moderate model. It's like they're neurotically scared of looking too much like the Labor Party or are so mired in authoritianism / boys club mentality they've failed to notice the rapid changes in society, especially social media, women and many of the complex issues facing folks today.

One commentator suggested that the LNP has to do some soul searching. I'd suggest the HUN needs to do the same, they became a shameless promotional arm for the LNP, proving just how out of touch and lacking in influence they are (as you noted, Spotted One) listening too much to the archaic meanderings of their opinion writers who cater to a small, loud gang of malcontents (the angry/hate merchants). The LNP Feds should also take note of the voter's preference for more moderate leadership and far greater inclusiveness for women - the electorate is not much interested in patriarchy any more (apart from our malcontent friends).

Daniel Andrews is our Trump.

Harsh

And there you have it, Spotted One. Well said.

The far right of the LNP has hijacked the entire party moving way too far away from the Menzies model, a more moderate model. It's like they're neurotically scared of looking too much like the Labor Party or are so mired in authoritianism / boys club mentality they've failed to notice the rapid changes in society, especially social media, women and many of the complex issues facing folks today.

One commentator suggested that the LNP has to do some soul searching. I'd suggest the HUN needs to do the same, they became a shameless promotional arm for the LNP, proving just how out of touch and lacking in influence they are (as you noted, Spotted One) listening too much to the archaic meanderings of their opinion writers who cater to a small, loud gang of malcontents (the angry/hate merchants). The LNP Feds should also take note of the voter's preference for more moderate leadership and far greater inclusiveness for women - the electorate is not much interested in patriarchy any more (apart from our malcontent friends).

What far right? What country do you think you live in?

What far right? What country do you think you live in?

Australia. And we have plenty of loud far right and far left people.

Australia. And we have plenty of loud far right and far left people.

You said the party is far right. Who is far right in the LNP?

Bolt and co are blaming these losses on them moving to the left and not offering an alternative to Labor.

What country do we think we live in? That’s probably a question you should ask Sky News hosts & News Corp scribes. Rupert seems to think we’re living in the Deep South of the USA. Maybe he should stop trying to make fetch happen.

On a different point, how about the 2 candidates who should never have been up for election? Catherine Cummings is a sitting independent MLC who was running this time for the Angry Party. She was the one who said she wanted to see Dan Andrews disappear in a red mist. The police have decided not to charge her but that comment should see her barred from Parliament. She explicitly linked the comment to the military term “pink mist” which describes the droplets expelled when a sniper shoots an enemy in the head. That sort of violent rhetoric has no place in Victorian politics.

Even more bizarre was the suicide by a National Party candidate running in Narracan that caused a failed election in that seat. That means a separate election has to be held in the coming weeks. He was facing sexual offence charges, including rape, that were going before a court next week.  When I originally found out about that, I assumed those charges were laid after the election was called and caught this guy by surprise. But no, the charges were laid a year ago. Why did the Nationals allow him to continue as a candidate and why didn’t he withdraw his nomination or pull out of preselection? I thought major parties vetted their candidates. But it seems that their vetting process is no better than Essendon’s.

You said the party is far right. Who is far right in the LNP?

Bolt and co are blaming these losses on them moving to the left and not offering an alternative to Labor.

I didn't say the party was far right, I said elements within it were pulling the party further to the far right. If you're going to quote me, please be accurate. As for what the far right looks like, with names... see Wingman MAV's post.

And when you start quoting Bolt, you know you're on shaky ground.

Shaky ground?

Daniel Andrews is our Trump.

I think Clive Palmer would be the closest Australia has to a version of Trump.

You said the party is far right. Who is far right in the LNP?

Bolt and co are blaming these losses on them moving to the left and not offering an alternative to Labor.

That Jones/Bolt line is a smokescreen excuse given by people who want to become even more extreme right.

Do not confuse extreme fundamentalist Christian right with outright extremists, we aren't discussing Nazi's.

For example do you have a daughter or a sister? Do they deserve the right to have control over her own body, over their own reproductive plan, god pray they aren't raped and declined an abortion by the extreme Christian right. This right, the fundamentalist Christian right that has invaded the coalition, think a show like the Handmaid's Tale is the story of paradise gone wrong!

Shaky ground?

Yes, it's shaky ground, because what the likes of Jones and Bolt say publicly isn't reflected in their private life or beliefs, so it's bullcrap. In effect deliberate chain rattling for profit.

Do you really think Alan Jones, Andrew Bolt or Rita Panahi think their daughters have less rights than you?

I didn’t know until recently that some/many (?) right-to-lifers want to ban IUDs. They argue that the IUD prevents fertilised eggs attaching to the womb, so women who use them are as much murderers as women who have abortions. Oy vey!

I didn’t know until recently that some/many (?) right-to-lifers want to ban IUDs. They argue that the IUD prevents fertilised eggs attaching to the womb, so women who use them are as much murderers as women who have abortions. Oy vey!

This years Vic State election was infested with has-beens from Scomo's fundamentalist Christian coalition, they had some success in NSW with Perrottet getting the top job and when they were kyboshed they moved from having Federal ambitions to State ambitions.

But Australia / Vic isn't full of motivated nuffies like the USA, sure we hear and see them in the media but they are clearly the minority, and voting here is compulsory not subject to the whims and wishes of a highly active lunatic fringe.

Long term, like Labor has already started to do, the Liberal's will need to swing towards majority interests or it will perish. I suspect the Teals are the start of this, modern Small L Liberals. You don't have to believe people like Bolt or Jones to have liberalist views. Fundamentally, a liberalist view is about small government and deregulation, it is not about suppressing human rights or imposing religious beliefs.

What Perrottet and Scomo did was hijack a political party to impose minority beliefs, they just tried the same thing in Vic and got their ar5e kicked!

Guy has run away again, he did this last time.

Rather than face the music, take responsibility for setting a new coarse and rebuilding the Liberal party, he fecks off and avoids facing the blame or doing the long term hard work. It the political equivalent as life as a sniper, but one who is a shizen shot, an unsuccessful assassination attempt then a swift get away!

Have we have dodged a bullet, I think so?

Yes, it's shaky ground, because what the likes of Jones and Bolt say publicly isn't reflected in their private life or beliefs, so it's bullcrap. In effect deliberate chain rattling for profit.

Do you really think Alan Jones, Andrew Bolt or Rita Panahi think their daughters have less rights than you?

Have often said the same thing, Spotted One. Their columns are click bait performances to milk any ratings from the angry fringe. Enough of them to raise a small profit from.

I have no difficulty imagining all 3 going home and joking to the family, "You wouldn't believe what I had them believing today..."

As a matter of interest, in his younger days Bolt was a Leftie social activist. He might say that he finally saw the light, the more cynical among us might say he couldn't get enough attention so he turned his quill to an area where more notoriety (loot and attention) was to be had... the shallow end of the pond.

There's no rational reason for believing this result was going to be any different. The only people who would knowingly choose Guy in this election are folks who vote Liberal reflexively, or the Dan haters who vote in a negative way purely to get him out of office, not because they think anyone else can do better job.

Common sense prevails.

Seems that the silent majority outweigh the vocal minority.

Nobody in this election chose to vote for Guy and what he stood for, they simply chose to vote against Dan....and as i said, were the vocal minority.

Yeah really silent.

There's no rational reason for believing this result was going to be any different. The only people who would knowingly choose Guy in this election are folks who vote Liberal reflexively, or the Dan haters who vote in a negative way purely to get him out of office, not because they think anyone else can do better job.

Do you think Labor have done a good job for the last 8 years?

There's no rational reason for believing this result was going to be any different. The only people who would knowingly choose Guy in this election are folks who vote Liberal reflexively, or the Dan haters who vote in a negative way purely to get him out of office, not because they think anyone else can do better job.

The opposite to that applies, people might have voted for Andrews as there is simply no alternative despite him doing a terrible job in their view.

Do you think Labor have done a good job for the last 8 years?

That depends on what you mean. If you mean measuring up to my personal ideal, then no. If you mean in comparison to the frankly poverty stricken state of politics locally and worldwide (congratulations Italy ! You've just flushed yourselves down the toilet !), then Andrews probably deserves a medal.

The opposite to that applies, people might have voted for Andrews as there is simply no alternative despite him doing a terrible job in their view.

You need to perform in opposition just as much as you do in Government. Politics is comparative - even if they think Andrews sucks, they vote for him because the opposition sucks more.

That depends on what you mean. If you mean measuring up to my personal ideal, then no. If you mean in comparison to the frankly poverty stricken state of politics locally and worldwide (congratulations Italy ! You've just flushed yourselves down the toilet !), then Andrews probably deserves a medal.

:))  :))  :))  :)) Italian politics, an absolute laughing stock. Some think its bad here, try living in their shoes for a day. As for angry constituents? People here don't know the meaning of the phrase until they spoken to a few Italians over there.

:))  :))  :))  :)) Italian politics, an absolute laughing stock.

It's a miracle that country achieves what it does, given the complete dysfunctionality of the political system.

It's a miracle that country achieves what it does, given the complete dysfunctionality of the political system.

The rich industrialists and general business people do well, they just pay off officials and partake in the corruption. The average Joe Blow and the poor struggle to put food and drinking water on the table. Its a disgrace.

Andrews win is more reflective of the total lack of trust and competence of the Liberal Party who remain locked in the past hoping the same formula will win them office. Given Andrews presided over the lockdowns during CoVid, has been accused of corruption, has created and manages the biggest debt out of all the States and has totally messed up the Ambulance and Hospital systems you couldnt get better conditions for the Libs to knock out a win but they failed miserably and lost ground themselves.
You need a good opposition to make the Government work harder and do better but here in Victoria we dont have that and the election went exactly the way I thought it would with the Greens and the Teals being handy preferential voting partners for Labor and the Independents being more popular as well.
I wouldnt vote for either of the major parties and I cant see that changing next election.....both hopeless but one more hopeless than the other...

'Left or right' is really a pointless argument.

They're the rusted on folks.
These things are always decided by around a 20% of folks in the middle.
Latest figures I saw with about 60% of the vote counted were a little over a million for the ALP and a little under a million for the LNP
It was decided in the middle.

These middle people are influenced by probably two key factors.
One is who they perceive, at the time,  is best placed to look after their interests e.g. 'Howards battlers'. ( whether they end up delivering is irrelevant. They just have to 'promise' and that promise needs to be accepted).

The other factor factor is the leadership.
The person in the top job.
It is important, and again often comes down to perception rather than substance.

I'm one of the middle folk.
Interstate we saw a fair bit of the pre-election build-up.
Andrews was on telly everyday during the pandemic.
From a distance, with no personal benefit to myself influencing my vote, or any gripe about having been locked down for an extended period influencing my vote (although Anna did have us locked in)... I would have voted for Andrews.

'Left or right' is really a pointless argument.

They're the rusted on folks.
These things are always decided by around a 20% of folks in the middle.
Latest figures I saw with about 60% of the vote counted were a little over a million for the ALP and a little under a million for the LNP
It was decided in the middle.

These middle people are influenced by probably two key factors.
One is who they perceive, at the time,  is best placed to look after their interests e.g. 'Howards battlers'. ( whether they end up delivering is irrelevant. They just have to 'promise' and that promise needs to be accepted).

The other factor factor is the leadership.
The person in the top job.
It is important, and again often comes down to perception rather than substance.

I'm one of the middle folk.
Interstate we saw a fair bit of the pre-election build-up.
Andrews was on telly everyday during the pandemic.
From a distance, with no personal benefit to myself influencing my vote, or any gripe about having been locked down for an extended period influencing my vote (although Anna did have us locked in)... I would have voted for Andrews.

Reckon the middle has got larger with more young people and women taking an interest than ever before. Kids are not voting the same as Mum and Dad like they used to back in our day and families are not as rusted on as a group as they were.

https://theconversation.com/how-dan-andrews-pulled-off-one-of-the-most-remarkable-victories-in-modern-politics-194710

Fair assessment. Paints a realistic picture IMO.

I voted liberal for the first time in my life.

We experienced a taste of far left authoritarian government during the pandemic.

No one on here knows what a far right junta government truly looks like and discuss moderates in the same breathe as Adolf Hitler.

Not the same thing at all.

For me this isn't a team sport, whether my vote won or not is irrelevant to me) but the guy in power has what, 5 IBAC investigations against his leadership?  Oh, and in case you want to see the leopard's real spots, let's all remember Jenny mikakos, and how a politician who is female and from a ethnic background was sacrificed to save face.

Not sure how the health minister is responsible for the hotel quarantine crap, but thats a discussion that is very hard to get concrete answers on.

https://theconversation.com/how-dan-andrews-pulled-off-one-of-the-most-remarkable-victories-in-modern-politics-194710

Fair assessment. Paints a realistic picture IMO.

Thank you, Pauly. The Conversation has successfully nailed every salient point for both major parties, with astute journalistic objectivity and dexterity.

I voted liberal for the first time in my life.

We experienced a taste of far left authoritarian government during the pandemic.

No one on here knows what a far right junta government truly looks like and discuss moderates in the same breathe as Adolf Hitler.

Not the same thing at all.

For me this isn't a team sport, whether my vote won or not is irrelevant to me) but the guy in power has what, 5 IBAC investigations against his leadership?  Oh, and in case you want to see the leopard's real spots, let's all remember Jenny mikakos, and how a politician who is female and from a ethnic background was sacrificed to save face.

Not sure how the health minister is responsible for the hotel quarantine crap, but thats a discussion that is very hard to get concrete answers on.

All valid points. Andrews was ripe for the picking, but the LNP was more on the nose than him... which the electorate voiced. We (Vic and Oz) need a viable major party alternative to keep all parties honest but the LNP let themselves down and the state by failing to adapt and adjust to the modern world... still mired in policy and electioneering strategies of a bygone era.

I voted liberal for the first time in my life.

We experienced a taste of far left authoritarian government during the pandemic.

No one on here knows what a far right junta government truly looks like and discuss moderates in the same breathe as Adolf Hitler.

Not the same thing at all.

For me this isn't a team sport, whether my vote won or not is irrelevant to me) but the guy in power has what, 5 IBAC investigations against his leadership?  Oh, and in case you want to see the leopard's real spots, let's all remember Jenny mikakos, and how a politician who is female and from a ethnic background was sacrificed to save face.

Not sure how the health minister is responsible for the hotel quarantine crap, but thats a discussion that is very hard to get concrete answers on.

Not disagreeing with any of that but the public couldnt find enough positives in Guy and the Liberals to make the change as the alternative. The Liberals will be fighting for survival looking past the next couple of elections the way things are going especially if the Nationals vote to end the Coalition.
Federally its not much better and they need to dump Dutton and have more young blood as candidates, women in leadership roles and better policies on climate change, energy, and get a grip on the cost of living because thats what the public want.

Me neither, my vote was more against Dan than for guy, but there was more than that thats occurred during the last 4 years to convert me from a labor voter to liberal.

As a society and nation we need to get pulled to the right because by brother in laws kids are being taught the gender crap that doesn't matter at school but will come out of primary school politicised.  Apparently they're having a whing about the lack of female protagonists in video games.  They're not even past grade 3 where the focus for us was largely about maths, and getting your pen license.

Me neither, my vote was more against Dan than for guy, but there was more than that thats occurred during the last 4 years to convert me from a labor voter to liberal.

As a society and nation we need to get pulled to the right because by brother in laws kids are being taught the gender crap that doesn't matter at school but will come out of primary school politicised.  Apparently they're having a whing about the lack of female protagonists in video games.  They're not even past grade 3 where the focus for us was largely about maths, and getting your pen license.

Not much of what you describe about primary school curriculum is related specifically to Labor, and on the curriculum front the things you are worried about might only become worse if minority parties gain further power. And the inverse of that scenario, a right leaning curriculum, could be even worse!

I read today there is a new push on to disassemble special education, and integrate special needs kids with the main stream. This is a push purely taken from the perspective of special needs kids and their parents. I completely understand the desire for inclusion, but nobody is discussing the impact of such decisions on the main stream students. It reminds me of when Jeff Kennett kyboshed all the special needs mental health facilities, a cost cutting exercise, oddly I'd just been having had a chat with someone about the impact of this on our hospital EUs and ESSUs.

I wouldn't be too worried though about the primary school stuff, most kids rebel against rote learning and start to question everything they have been taught by the time they hit secondary school. The more the system hammers away at them with ideologies the more likely they will feel ripped off later, and that's a big difference between teaching and educating.

Not much of what you describe about primary school curriculum is related specifically to Labor, and on the curriculum front the things you are worried about might only become worse if minority parties gain further power. And the inverse of that scenario, a right leaning curriculum, could be even worse!

I read today there is a new push on to disassemble special education, and integrate special needs kids with the main stream. This is a push purely taken from the perspective of special needs kids and their parents. I completely understand the desire for inclusion, but nobody is discussing the impact of such decisions on the main stream students. It reminds me of when Jeff Kennett kyboshed all the special needs mental health facilities, a cost cutting exercise, oddly I'd just been having had a chat with someone about the impact of this on our hospital EUs and ESSUs.

I wouldn't be too worried though about the primary school stuff, most kids rebel against rote learning and start to question everything they have been taught by the time they hit secondary school. The more the system hammers away at them with ideologies the more likely they will feel ripped off later, and that's a big difference between teaching and educating.

My wife is a primary school teacher who deals every day with the problems and struggles special needs kids face at school. If there wasn't such a stigma associated with schools that cater for specific children's needs, there would be no argument. Im all for inclusion but when Its to the detriment of a child that's where I have a problem.

Pauline Hanson had the solution for dealing with dept issues with budgets. Just print more money. I just wonder if we will ever see a political leader in touch with the people. Living with our everyday people expenses and budgeting on our every weeks earnings. How can you earn $200,000 - $500,000 per year and live a life full of perks, and really understand what it means to live off $40,000 to $70,000 with large mortgages and every day expenses. Food, fuel costs, utility bills, schooling costs, rates, car registrations, mortgages or rental costs, etc. We have had interest rates over 17% many, many years ago. We have just come off the lowest of lows around 3%. Buckle up folks. It is on the rise again. Probably never to reach previous highs. However the rise in living expenses are about to hurt many families in the next 4 years. Some of us will manage. Some of us will suffer and struggle just to live from one day to the next. Especially if they have many mouths to feed.

Dan Andrews is a greedy, corrupt, dictator who feeds off his own power and has no care for anyone but his own pocket. Deep pocket. Deepest of any Premier in Australia. Guy is an incompetent little snot, who was happy enough to stuff his pockets full of cash while doing nothing to show real leadership and never got to the big stage. Difference in result was really nothing more than which greedy little turd would be wasting my tax money.

Neither ever knew how the majority of people were living and sometimes only just existing. Neither in touch with reality or the constituents they were trying to represent. We were screwed either way. It only depended on which idiot and out of touch greedy prick was sticking it into you without any lube. By idiot, I should actually say genius. Only a genius could f#@k you without lube and have you come back begging for more. On a serious note, our options were so limited that nothing was going to be a great result. This state is in a great deal of trouble. Think about a relocate. Luckily I don’t need loads of money. I am almost too old to spend it. I feel sorry for the younger generations. Taxes will kill your lifestyle moving forwards. Hear my words. Get into politics. It doesn’t pay poorly at all. You can make a difference if you are in touch with the people. Don’t waste money. Try to make a difference. Give a shot kids. Why not. The state has nothing to lose. Everything to gain. Give it a shot.

Some reflections on the election ...

The Oligarch's minions overreach in their attacks on Andrews and Labor was a spectacular fail.  Yes, their job is to push Murdoch's agenda, but they have to stay within cooee of their readership's beliefs.

Most Victorians have little time for cookers and even less for parties that cosy up to them.

Samantha Ratnam's "greenslide" didn't happen. While I would have preferred a Greens government before one led by a corrupt Guy, the Greens are decades away from developing the political astuteness, discipline and achievable policies required to become a realistic alternative to the major parties.

The National Party's resurgence at the expense of independents was a surprise.  Let's hope that they represent their constituents as well as the independents did.  Teal, pink and other shades of independents weren't able to replicate their successes of the Federal and previous State elections.

Selection of candidates needs work.  Some of the comments by endorsed candidates were abhorrent and folk with those beliefs have no place in major parties.  There's not much that can be done about who the cooker parties select but how did a bloke facing rape charges make it as a National Party candidate?

Voting "above the line" for the upper house needs to be looked at.  Preference wrangling is a blight and I would prefer to have an optional preferential system where a minimum of five boxes have to be numbered.  I don't want my vote trickling down to Wun Nashun or disgruntled idiots.  And, while I'm at it, how to vote cards should be banned!

Quote of the campaign: "Hope always defeats hate!"

"Let's be clear about this, let's be very clear, I can't recall!"

Let’s learn from the US. Over there, the MAGA crowd refuse to accept any election result that goes against them. Surely everyone loves and respects dear old Donald, so any election loss has to mean the election was rigged. Maybe they should let reality hit them in the face and understand that their devotion isn’t a majority view.

At least in Victoria, we don’t (yet) have election deniers. But we do have plenty who refuse to accept that other voters don’t share their views. The ‘Dictator Dan’ crew still believe that everybody hates Dan. So they blame it on Guy. If only the Libs had a nice guy as the frontman, everybody would have voted them in to get rid of the Dictator. They aren’t driven towards self-reflection by the failure of 2 campaigns at Federal and State elections that targeted Andrews (and MacGowan) with the help of cookers and Murdoch.

But wait, now Sam Groth is here to help. Everyone loves Grothy, don’t they? If he becomes Lib leader, everyone will feel good about getting rid of Dictator Dan and those that don’t like Dan Andrews will be able to prove that everybody shares their opinions!

Dan's a good bloke just don't let your kids ride their bike around Mulgrave.

Let’s learn from the US. Over there, the MAGA crowd refuse to accept any election result that goes against them. Surely everyone loves and respects dear old Donald, so any election loss has to mean the election was rigged. Maybe they should let reality hit them in the face and understand that their devotion isn’t a majority view.

At least in Victoria, we don’t (yet) have election deniers. But we do have plenty who refuse to accept that other voters don’t share their views. The ‘Dictator Dan’ crew still believe that everybody hates Dan. So they blame it on Guy. If only the Libs had a nice guy as the frontman, everybody would have voted them in to get rid of the Dictator. They aren’t driven towards self-reflection by the failure of 2 campaigns at Federal and State elections that targeted Andrews (and MacGowan) with the help of cookers and Murdoch.

But wait, now Sam Groth is here to help. Everyone loves Grothy, don’t they? If he becomes Lib leader, everyone will feel good about getting rid of Dictator Dan and those that don’t like Dan Andrews will be able to prove that everybody shares their opinions!

ABC talkback was full of cookers - there was a meeyun peepul protesting - claiming that the ALP couldn’t possibly have won the election. Vitrioli was very patient with her explanations of preferential voting.

Dan's a good bloke just don't let your kids ride their bike around Mulgrave.

If only you and a few thousand like-minded voters had moved to Mulgrave, you could have got rid of him. This is on you!

Some reflections on the election ...

The Oligarch's minions overreach in their attacks on Andrews and Labor was a spectacular fail.  Yes, their job is to push Murdoch's agenda, but they have to stay within cooee of their readership's beliefs.

Most Victorians have little time for cookers and even less for parties that cosy up to them.

Samantha Ratnam's "greenslide" didn't happen. While I would have preferred a Greens government before one led by a corrupt Guy, the Greens are decades away from developing the political astuteness, discipline and achievable policies required to become a realistic alternative to the major parties.

The National Party's resurgence at the expense of independents was a surprise.  Let's hope that they represent their constituents as well as the independents did.  Teal, pink and other shades of independents weren't able to replicate their successes of the Federal and previous State elections.

Selection of candidates needs work.  Some of the comments by endorsed candidates were abhorrent and folk with those beliefs have no place in major parties.  There's not much that can be done about who the cooker parties select but how did a bloke facing rape charges make it as a National Party candidate?

Voting "above the line" for the upper house needs to be looked at.  Preference wrangling is a blight and I would prefer to have an optional preferential system where a minimum of five boxes have to be numbered.  I don't want my vote trickling down to Wun Nashun or disgruntled idiots.  And, while I'm at it, how to vote cards should be banned!

Quote of the campaign: "Hope always defeats hate!"

Personally, irrespective of how I have voted, I have taken to putting the greens last on the ballot in every election I vote for.  Even when I put Labor as 1.

Dictator Dan has won the election despite being despised by every single person on Earth, The Guardian. (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/nov/28/dictator-dan-has-won-the-victorian-election-despite-being-despised-by-every-single-person-on-earth)

Dictator Dan has won the election despite being despised by every single person on Earth, The Guardian. (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/nov/28/dictator-dan-has-won-the-victorian-election-despite-being-despised-by-every-single-person-on-earth)

Fake news, fake VEC, fake outcome, we all know it.

Only the truth is true!

You can read it in The Hun or hear it on Sky News.

Just ask Andrew Bolt, Alan Jones, Rita Panahi and Peta Credlin, thank them deeply for all the good work they have done they deserve a pay rise, without them the Coalition would hardly get a vote!  ;D

Personally, irrespective of how I have voted, I have taken to putting the greens last on the ballot in every election I vote for.  Even when I put Labor as 1.

Greens are at the latter end of my voting papers too, they don't have any other  policies other than environmental variety.

Terry McCrann

Just six months ago Victorians voted for four more years of Dan Andrews and they are now going to get their reward, and get it good and hard.

Whether they will be getting the next four years of hard, very hard, Labor from chairman Dan, though, is a very different and interesting question.

What are the odds now on the premier bailing, in the time-honoured Labor tradition of the male premier handing the – thoroughly – poisoned chalice to the female deputy.

Think Brian Burke and Carmen Lawrence in WA; Peter Beattie and Anna Bligh in Queensland; and indeed, our very own John Cain and Joan Kirner, back in the ‘Guilty Party’ days of 1990.

Now, I have to say, you’ve got to be impressed by treasurer Tim Pallas’s skill in applying oodles of lipstick on a fiscal pig.

Why, you might even begin to believe the looming $170bn of state debt — that’s over $25,000 for every single Victorian, more than $100k for a family of four — is all-but already paid-off.
No way. All the pain in the budget – mostly, in higher taxes; there was precious little attempt to haul in spending and the bloated Victorian public sector – only serves to SLOW the rise and rise in the debt.

The idea – the idea that Chairman Dan and Treasurer Tim would like you to believe – that the cutely named ’Covid Levy’ will actually start to REPAY the debt is a fantasy.

Net debt goes from $117bn now to $171bn in mid-2027. That’s an increase of nearly 50 per cent.

And note; that’s on the most optimistic assumptions about the Victorian and national economies.

That despite all those Reserve Bank rate rises, which chairman and treasurer blame for Victoria’s woes – that nasty Phil Lowe ‘made us do it’; borrow all the billions – the state and national economies will just keep whirring along.

That’s to say, we will get back to budget balance by 2026-27; and then and only then will we start to make very small repayments on the debt.

Dream on; deceive on. Victoria is in and will stay in a deep, deep, fiscal and debt hole.
And if you ‘blame Covid’ – as chairman and treasurer desperately try – you are blaming yourselves; because it was Victoria’s way over the top lockdowns that gave us so much more debt than, most directly, NSW.

The big underlying story in the state budget is the way premier and treasurer have desperately doubled down on their Big Build and Big Melbourne hopes.

That is, if they keep pouring more and more concrete, they keep pouring more and more people into Melbourne, that will at least generate enough revenues to paper over the yawning, spreading cracks in Victoria’s economic and fiscal state.

The method chosen is to attack property owners and especially owners of rental properties.

Gee, that’s smart. Melbourne already has a rental crisis; so we will further discourage people from owning and building rental properties.

I guess Chairman’s Dan’s personal calculus is that particular chicken will come home to roost under Premier Jacinta.

Sure, land is always a popular target of government taxation and de facto expropriation. On the basis you can’t take it away.
No, but you can certainly ‘encourage’ people to go away.

This is a budget which screams to Victorian go-getters – the creators of businesses and jobs – go north, and quickly, young man and woman.

In what paper did that appear, MBB?

It's in the Herald Sun.

Greens are at the latter end of my voting papers too, they don't have any other  policies other than environmental variety.

They do have other policies but they are either too costly, too ridiculous or both.

They do have other policies but they are either too costly, too ridiculous or both.

I remember looking at their website and seeing how they were going to fund their policies and they said they were going to tax the Rich....reckon that might have been tried a few times over the centuries but with limited success.

It's in the Herald Sun.

Wonder if Rupert dictated it.

Wonder if Rupert dictated it.

Probably not. I'm sure his minions know what is expected.

McCrann has long been a journalist with a heavy right wing slant.

I’m sure he’s fair and balanced, as is Fox News.

I’m sure he’s fair and balanced, as is Fox News.

It got to the point long ago that any expectation of accurate reporting and a genuine both sides analysis from his stable was totally futile and hopelessly naive.

I thought it was a good article.

I thought it was a good article.

🤣

If any “journo” wants to have any credibility they should refrain from calling the democratically elected leader of the state as a dictator.

🤣

If any “journo” wants to have any credibility they should refrain from calling the democratically elected leader of the state as a dictator.

Agree...Megalomaniac is a far better description, Dictator tends to legitimise his right to absolute power.

🤣

Someone quoted Terry McCrann  ;D

Andrews had us Victorians  in debt before CoVid and his latest budget is just the man in the street paying for it as per usual.
Using payroll tax to pay off debt is old school economics where big business just pass on the cost to the consumer.
Companies like Wesfarmers will just raise their prices so we all pay more for everyday items , high fee charging private schools now hit with payroll tax will raise their fees sending some kids back to a already over crowded public system.
Disposable incomes in Victoria are now  around seventh out of the eight states.
It's been an unsustainable ponzi economy based on high debt, high immigration numbers fuelling business and poor exports. I'd expect Andrews to do a Hardwick and bail sometime in the future because times are about to get real tough for Victorians...

Victoria has been run to the ground :(

Someone quoted Terry McCrann  ;D

Typical.

Victoria has been run to the ground :(

Problem is the opposition are equally inept...its worrying for the future.

Problem is the opposition are equally inept...its worrying for the future.

Possibly more inept - the Coalition government that Dan replaced was mired in inertia and did bugger-all but, at least, it didn't drive the state into its current peril.

Maybe the Labor party will improve if Dictator Dan folds his tent and goes away.

Now, I have to say, you’ve got to be impressed by treasurer Tim Pallas’s skill in applying oodles of lipstick on a fiscal pig.

He even tried to smile. 

BTW - I like the term 'fiscal pig' in this context.

Possibly more inept - the Coalition government that Dan replaced was mired in inertia and did bugger-all but, at least, it didn't drive the state into its current peril.

The previous Liberal government 'managed' the economy by spending it on absolutely nothing.  No point having no debt while trying to live in a city with 1950's infrastructure.

Im surprised people surprised at project cost blowouts and record debt under a Labour government

Don’t worry about debt - the Liberals will just sell everything that isn’t bolted down and even the things that are and they’ll have more than enough to splurge on their mates. Surely the transport system can be privatised and a few schools can be sold off again.

Then again, it could be worse than Labour or Liberal, could be Green.

A more nuanced, impartial critique of the Victorian budget by Daniel Ziffer:

Victoria's budget takes an almost aggressive approach to reclaim revenue, and it's not without risk

Chutzpah. The Yiddish word is all about audacious swagger — and confidently pushing into things even if the elements are against you.

You'll know people who've got it: the ones who breeze effortlessly past bouncers into the nightclub, the person who talks staff into the best table in the restaurant, the one that glides past barriers with the air of someone who was meant to be there all along.

This year's Victorian budget is all chutzpah.

It takes an almost aggressive approach: You don't like it … whatcha gonna do about it?

Targets

Consider some of the targets of increased taxes: mega businesses, private schools, absent foreign landlords and holiday-home owners.

A collection of people many may view unsympathetically after the pandemic turbo-charged asset values and corporate profits.
The government is trying to win more revenue to pay down eye-watering COVID debt while continuing to concrete its way to making Victoria — and particularly Melbourne — work as the population surges.

So big business will pay a COVID Debt Levy, something they can plonk on top of the Mental Health Levy slugged to them a few years ago.

Businesses that have a wages bill of more than $10 million nationally will pay an additional 0.5 per cent on their payroll tax for the next ten years.

Those who have a payroll bill above $100 million – that's big household names – will pay another 0.5 per cent on top of that, all up raising $3.9 billion in the next four years.

With corporate profits soaring, they'll whine about it … and pay up.

It's just 5 per cent of employers. The biggest.

Are Bunnings, Woolworths or Telstra going to quit Victoria over this? Unlikely.

High-fee private schools will no longer be exempt from payroll tax.

What are they going to do? Move to Adelaide? I don't think so.

And the tax-free threshold on land tax will be lowered dramatically.

It used to kick in at $300,000 for the land portion, now it's down to $50,000 ensnaring 380,000 new properties, some of them apartments.

The key part is that it's only for homes the owner doesn't live in, being investment properties and holiday homes.
It might push up rents — already rocketing — but for most it'll be a $3.50 a day impost on owners.

Foreign investors who don't live in their properties will also pay more, a 4 per cent levy up from 2 per cent (bringing it into line with New South Wales).

Again, is that enough that you'd sell up when there's been an 84 per cent lift in land value in the past decade?

Dangers abound

The budget isn't without risk and impact.

It's trimming the public service back to pre-pandemic levels, "without affecting frontline services".

Booting 3,000 to 4,000 staff and no-one noticing? Good luck with that.

And despite new taxes, the state debt keeps growing.

But it's three years out from an election, just after the government won more than three quarters of the seats in the lower house.
This is not a typo: in their third consecutive election win, the government got one more seat than four years earlier.

By the next election in 2026, the opposition will have only held power for four of 27 years.

The Andrews government is banking that it can grow its way out of problems.

With Melbourne newly crowned as the biggest city in the land and more people arriving after the COVID shudder, they might be right.

Outlook

To sell the dream, the government does a lock-up where journalists read the budget books and ask questions of officials and Treasurer Tim Pallas before he reads the speech in Parliament.

It gives journos time to digest the documents and check the winners and losers with their colleagues.

From the 45th floor of a Collins Street skyscraper you can see the department store Myer, which dominates Bourke Street Mall — probably the busiest patch of land in the state.

The huge building stretches along a massive section of the street, leading to the Victorian phrase "more front than Myers", a complement to the Yiddish chutzpah.

This budget has both.

It's getting groups like big business and multiple home owners to pay up.

The government has made a calculation that they'll bleat about it, fruitlessly lobby against it, then pay it.

Whatcha gonna do about it … leave?

Big business, landlords, private school boards don't lose they just pass on the cost to consumers or sack staff.
Reality is the mug in the street ends up paying more and the cost of living just goes up. Victorians are seventh out of eight states for disposable income...
I'm just waiting for Dan to sneak another pollies pay rise through parliament during the middle of the night....

I'm just waiting for Dan to sneak another pollies pay rise through parliament during the middle of the night....

I suspect Politician payrises are inevitable, as long as Corporates keep making mega wages and bonuses off scalping big companies and staff it's inevitable you'll need to pay politicians more to get people interested in the public service gig!

Have a look this week, QANTAS CEO Joyce gets a massive payday, off the back of COVID redundancies and huge airfare rises because if they didn't they would go bust! Instead they miraculously end up with a record all time profit and Joyce hits the jackpot!

That is what we are competing with when we call for better people in politics.

Getting rid of the payroll tax exemption for private schools could have devastating consequences. Maybe plans to build that 3rd Olympic size pool will have to be deferred or maybe that new radio-telescope and planetarium won’t be built. Or perhaps Scotch College won’t be able to sign up Alistair Clarkson to coach the 1st XVIII. Quelle horreur !

Well the cost will be passed onto the parents who will definitely up the rent on their rental properties.

While the pollies must do some lobbying/have some influence, there is an 'independent' tribual that sets pollies pay.

https://www.vic.gov.au/members-parliament-salaries-allowances (https://www.vic.gov.au/members-parliament-salaries-allowances)

This was set up some time ago - not sure by who.

This was set up some time ago - not sure by who.

Is that for both Federal and State or just Federal?

I thought it was set up by Howard for Federal only.

Or maybe the schools won’t build the 3rd Olympic size pool or that new radio-telescope and planetarium or won’t sign up Alistair Clarkson to coach the 1st XVIII.

But it seems the landlords have already factored in the new budget by imposing extortionate increases in rents. The thing that I don’t understand is why the landlords went big on rent rises in NSW when they weren’t even subject to the Victorian State Budget …

I guess the best remedy is to decrease taxes on landlords and give them more tax breaks like negative gearing. We know landlords are really hurting right now and it must break their hearts to Jack up rents as they’re doing now. Surely, reducing their expenses would see them fighting over who will decrease rents by the most. And it’s great to see that they’re already being given a chop out: Landlord tax breaks to exceed $100b, Australian Financial Review. (https://www.afr.com/policy/economy/landlord-tax-breaks-to-exceed-100b-20230228-p5co3u)

The previous Liberal government 'managed' the economy by spending it on absolutely nothing. 

And doing nothing

And it’s great to see that they’re already being given a chop out: Landlord tax breaks to exceed $100b, Australian Financial Review. (https://www.afr.com/policy/economy/landlord-tax-breaks-to-exceed-100b-20230228-p5co3u)

It's just horrendous isn't it.

At the moment so many are having adult kids move back in, we aren't talking teenagers, but late 20 or even 30 somethings with fulltime employment who either can't afford a mortgage or can't find a house to rent that they can afford! Qualified Tradies, Nurses, Salespeople, even the self-employed are being screwed over by soaring mortgage and rental prices.

Something is about to break, if I was dependant on cash flow from heavily financed property portfolios I'd be liquidating some assets and getting into the black as soon as possible.

COVID made things horribly worse, many inner city well-to-dos headed into suburbia and surrounding regions buying "cheap" investment properties for temporary accommodation. They renovated droving up the property prices, and now demand high rentals beyond the remit of the locals they originally displaced.

Well the cost will be passed onto the parents who will definitely up the rent on their rental properties.

Or they will send their kids back to the State School system and drain more resources from the needy families who need support.
Of course what people dont realise is that the Vic budget will cost the federal government almost $3 billion in revenue over the next four years, and more than $7 billion over a decade, as landlords and business owners write off the tax rises imposed on them.
So where is that shortfall in money coming from....answer.... the mug public taxpayer, wouldnt be surprised to see the GST go up either as Albo also had to fork out as well for his share of Dans Infrastructure builds in Victoria.
From the Australian: "Tasmania is seeking to lure Victorian businesses in the wake of the Andrews government’s ‘horror’ high-taxing state budget, as it promises to hand down a more benign budget of its own".

Is that for both Federal and State or just Federal?

I thought it was set up by Howard for Federal only.

The Commonwealth and all States and Territories have bodies that determine remuneration for parliamentarians.  The Commonwealth remuneration committee was established under the Whitlam Government in 1973.

The Victorian tribunal determines remuneration for MPs, local government councillors and senior public service executives.

That’s tame from The Australian. Surely, Rupert could come up with a better scare campaign than that …

Funny how the Murdoch press argues that all of the Budget moves will be passed on 100% to the poor consumer but when they want to go for a 2nd bite of the cherry they focus on those impacts forming tax deductions coming out of the federal budget. Sure, it’s rank hypocrisy but would we expect information or disinformation from Rupert? He spins better than Warnie.

And how terrible that the changes may reverse the Liberals’ wet dream of stripping the government school system of students and resources. What a laugh that the Budget changes will hurt government schools by interfering with the private schools’ heroic and altruistic attempts to take the pressure off them  ^-^

That’s tame from The Australian. Surely, Rupert could come up with a better scare campaign than that …

Funny how the Murdoch press argues that all of the Budget moves will be passed on 100% to the poor consumer but when they want to go for a 2nd bite of the cherry they focus on those impacts forming tax deductions coming out of the federal budget. Sure, it’s rank hypocrisy but would we expect information or disinformation from Rupert? He spins better than Warnie.

And how terrible that the changes may reverse the Liberals’ wet dream of stripping the government school system of students and resources. What a laugh that the Budget changes will hurt government schools by interfering with the private schools’ heroic and altruistic attempts to take the pressure off them  ^-^

Its like the Private Health system and Private Insurance....if it isnt there then all those patients end up overwhelming the public system. Im not in favour of over funding the Private school system and my kids and myself went to local public schools but the reality is Private Schools are an evil you have to have and the public system doesnt need any overflow of students from parents unable to afford Private anymore. That only drags the public system down and drains resources from families and kids who need extra support and care. My son teaches grade 5/6 and has 30 in his class this year, he has a couple of special needs kids who need teachers aides but there isnt any money for it......why make that situation worse?

Change the funding system to reverse the flow of money into private schooling that the Liberals engineered and make sure the students returning to government schools bring the funding back with them and you’ll have a far better education system. Gonski recommended needs-based funding but the Liberals were happy to listen to lobbying from private schools of various religious affiliations. The end of the payroll tax exemption is finally a small but virtually insignificant step in the right direction.

Like Terry McCrann said we are broke.

Interesting the Commonwealth Games announcement.

I suspected at the time the costs / bidding was all a bit dubious. because coming out of COVID I was hearing from mates in construction and event business that costs were skyrocketing and the announced budget was basically the same as a pre-COVID 2018 games. Some materials have gone up twofold or threefold in cost, also not directly but because resources are being redirected the decision to cut forestry in Vic has made things even worse. All this feeds back.

I wonder how much of the estimated budget overrun is really increased material costs, versus contractors trying to recover their loss of income over COVID?

You'd have to be pretty nervous working on big projects at the moment, but on the bright side there might be a fresh material for a new episode of Utopia!

Those of you who do not follow this stuff won't be surprised to find the average blowout for a Comm games is about +50%, Brisbane was almost 100% and Birmingham was 43%. There are accusations of creative accounting for the Birmingham games with allegations some expenses were funnelled into special COVID budgets not included in the final report.

Interesting the Commonwealth Games announcement.

I suspected at the time the costs / bidding was all a bit dubious. because coming out of COVID I was hearing from mates in construction and event business that costs were skyrocketing and the announced budget was basically the same as a pre-COVID 2018 games. Some materials have gone up twofold or threefold in cost, also not directly but because resources are being redirected the decision to cut forestry in Vic has made things even worse. All this feeds back.

I wonder how much of the estimated budget overrun is really increased material costs, versus contractors trying to recover their loss of income over COVID?

You'd have to be pretty nervous working on big projects at the moment, but on the bright side there might be a fresh material for a new episode of Utopia!

Those of you who do not follow this stuff won't be surprised to find the average blowout for a Comm games is about +50%, Brisbane was almost 100% and Birmingham was 43%. There are accusations of creative accounting for the Birmingham games with allegations some expenses were funnelled into special COVID budgets not included in the final report.

Smart move really.

There is a reason that the construction industry has businesses toppling over like dominos of late.

Costs of everything have gone through the roof in both labour and materials. The demand for trades is sky high and they can name their price in a lot of instances. Suggesting a blowout of 3-fold is possibly quite conservative.

Its a case of damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

At least this way we end up with more cash to spend on other things, rather than a lot less.

Its a case of damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

I know they made a point of including lots of extra sports, many of which doubled up as para.

I know this question will be offensive to some, but I have to ask it anyway, at what stage do we stop funding blowouts by cutting minority funding?

I've read some of the events more than double in cost when integrating para sports. Are we heading towards such a politically correct ideology that it's either everyone or no-one at all?

Interestingly, the official CGA(Commonwealth games Authority) has gone the other way, and cut the required sports down to just two, Athletics and Swimming are the only two mandatory sports.

And let's not get started on the building industry rules and regulations regarding disability access, regulations that get applied without discrimination across the board!

I have a vivid imagination, but pretty soon I imagine gender or ethnicity neutral(certified) paint colours only, it's going to happen, you just know it! ;)

btw., Some of you might be asking, what is a gender / ethnicity neutral paint colour? Well for other technical reasons it already exists, it's called Munsell / ANSI gray, rather than being made up of a blend of black and white, it's a gray made up of equal parts of all the primary colours so that it reflects all colours evenly and doesn't cast a shadow or glare in any specific hue or tint. It is used in industries that have to control and measure colour as a neutral background for quality control, often a lightbox used to inspect parts of images will be painted with Munsell gray. How long before all public buildings have to be painted in this at the cost of about $325/ltr? There is your episode of Utopia right there! ;)

As a outsider looking in, with no knowledge of the State's financial situation...it looks a bit embarrassing.
Countries cancelling such events are usually the poorer nations.

The regional nature of the games and the spread around the State always seemed a bit strange, rather than a central Melbourne location.

As a outsider looking in, with no knowledge of the State's financial situation...it looks a bit embarrassing.
Countries cancelling such events are usually the poorer nations.

The regional nature of the games and the spread around the State always seemed a bit strange, rather than a central Melbourne location.

Victoria came in as the 'saviour' in April last year after there were no other takers, and in response to a request from the Commonwealth Games Federation.  Pretty sure Andrews et al saw it as a great opportunity to announce justifiable pork barrelling of some regional areas prior to a State election last November. 

Given the limited interest, especially in terms of telecast rights around the globe, the numbers just don't stack up any more for this event, and anyway, how many international visitors will be attracted to Bendigo and Traralgon as a result?

Funny, though, how those that are now moaning about the reputational damage would no doubt have been the same critics if it had gone ahead and poured $6b+ down the gurgler.

Moral is, don't host any events unless they are worth hosting.

Victoria came in as the 'saviour' in April last year after there were no other takers, and in response to a request from the Commonwealth Games Federation.

The CEO of the Comm Games Craig Phillips said in his presser today that the statement about Victoria coming in last minute as the saviour is BS.

Victoria came in as the 'saviour' in April last year after there were no other takers, and in response to a request from the Commonwealth Games Federation.  Pretty sure Andrews et al saw it as a great opportunity to announce justifiable pork barrelling of some regional areas prior to a State election last November. 

Given the limited interest, especially in terms of telecast rights around the globe, the numbers just don't stack up any more for this event, and anyway, how many international visitors will be attracted to Bendigo and Traralgon as a result?

Funny, though, how those that are now moaning about the reputational damage would no doubt have been the same critics if it had gone ahead and poured $6b+ down the gurgler.

Moral is, don't host any events unless they are worth hosting.

As someone said on radio earlier, the only one looking like a goose today is Andrews. The budget was with wrong then or now, either way, he gave approval back then and its all happened on his watch. CEO Craig Phillips reckons figures being quoted by Andrews are wrong/BS. Gave him a fair old clip in his presser.

When blokes working on projects are pulling 300+ K, let alone what the managerial types are charging, no wonder the state is Jeffed.

When blokes working on projects are pulling 300+ K, let alone what the managerial types are charging, no wonder the state is Jeffed.

The blokes pulling 300+K are members of the most militant unions in the country, the same unions the donate $$$$$$$$$ to comrade Dan's Red Shirt Brigade.

As someone said on radio earlier, the only one looking like a goose today is Andrews.

Business as usual, then.

I note that Commander Jerome, of lock-down fame, was put in charge of the Comm Games; time he uncoupled his wagon from Dan.

It seems a lot of the facilities being built for the games will still proceed.
There may also be some positions appointed that will have to be sorted, and maybe some contractual obligations.
So it's not like all the money will be 'saved'.

It's hard to argue that there may be some greater needs for the state, but just how much 'pulling out' of the games will actually cost will be interesting.

It seems a lot of the facilities being built for the games will still proceed.
There may also be some positions appointed that will have to be sorted, and maybe some contractual obligations.
So it's not like all the money will be 'saved'.

It's hard to argue that there may be some greater needs for the state, but just how much 'pulling out' of the games will actually cost will be interesting.

Im sure the money would have been spent more wisely, they should have estimated properly back then. To quote the great  Kerry Packer "Which kent farked that up?"
As for how much pulling out will cost, it was stated on radio today the estimates are north of $1B.

It wouldn't irritate me as much if the government had not only 4 weeks ago said that things looked like coming in on budget. That now looks like a bald faced lie.
Honestly, the government must have known months ago about cost blow-outs, yet they say nothing until now. Not reasonable.

Im sure the money would have been spent more wisely, they should have estimated properly back then. To quote the great  Kerry Packer "Which kent farked that up?"
As for how much pulling out will cost, it was stated on radio today the estimates are north of $1B.

Is this essentially the same mob that cancelled the contracted connector/bypass road through Parkville ?
What did that cost…?

Is this essentially the same mob that cancelled the contracted connector/bypass road through Parkville ?
What did that cost…?

East West Link? $1.1B to not build it, then announced the western distributor which costs have blown out to the shizenhousen.

East West Link? $1.1B to not build it, then announced the western distributor which costs have blown out to the shizenhousen.

https://www.afr.com/policy/economy/victoria-s-mystery-75b-spending-fund-20230525-p5dbb0

Im confused with the costings of the Commonwealth games.....Dan says it will now cost 7 billion yet the previous CG in 2022 were about 1.5 Billion and the estimated cost for 2026 was originally 2.6 Billion by the Labor Government.
Its not like Victoria is part of a 3rd world country with no infrastructure.....even allowing for cost over runs where is the extra 4.4 Billion being spent?

When you earn almost half a million dollars per year including benefits, you have the right to do what you want. The people elected you into power. I am sure many country leaders are not this well looked after. Just curious why you would commit to a temporary velodrome in Ballarat or Bendigo that would be destroyed after or dismantled completely after the games and spend 60 million plus in the process. We have already equipped velodrome facility at international credited grade available for use closer to the city capital. Has some of the budget to facilities and infrastructure been wasted budget spending? There is far more to this story and we won’t be holding another Commonwealth Games for many years to come. This is cancelling of a contract. Which always has costs you never recuperate. That never sits well with future bids for games if you execute the action the government has taken up. It will be interesting to see further news on this story. It will be a talking point in the media for quite some time. Strangely I heard in the media and it might not be complete fact, that if the federal government was approached by state governments, they would assist with around 50% of the total costs. This conversation never took place between our state and federal government. Just something I heard. It might not be fact.

Im confused with the costings of the Commonwealth games.....Dan says it will now cost 7 billion yet the previous CG in 2022 were about 1.5 Billion and the estimated cost for 2026 was originally 2.6 Billion by the Labor Government.
Its not like Victoria is part of a 3rd world country with no infrastructure.....even allowing for cost over runs where is the extra 4.4 Billion being spent?

Actually, the more relevant previous games was Brisbane 2018 that cost about $2B, but that was before COVID, it was an unrealistically low estimate that the games could be done for the same price post COVID.

btw., $1.5B (£778M) for Birmingham is most likely a highly dodgy figure, it's asserted that opportunistically they buried a lot of the costs related to operations in special COVID related budgets to make things look rosy!

Personally, I think it's a good thing, the games have become too fat with bureaucracy and management fees, much like the Olympics and Soccer, the $ have become crazy for what is fundamentally a big athletics meet.

People say it's the end of the games, but the sports will continue, the profiteering won't! ;)

We sit here reading and discussing $B in waste or excess, and we couldn't get a few $M to build a decent stand and underground carpark at our home ground to turn it into a boutique match centre, a venue that would have guaranteed utility, yet CheatsFC and Bulldogs get $Ms and $Ms for venues that go unused outside of training.

Handbaggers must be laughing all the way to the bank as well, ground fully upgraded with one reason being it was under the guise of use as a regional venue for Commonwealth sport. Games gone, venue free to the Handbaggers, how good is Cook?

Our turn!

Something about this just doesn't seem to gel.
There's a bit of skullduggery afoot methinks. ;)
Is the gap between the cost of going ahead and staging them and  the cost of still building the venues and contract responsibilities and penalties that huge?
Staging them v not staging them=How much?

In the short term, if you were an organisation looking to stage a major championship, Victoria wouldn't be high on your list of venues and that may be the case for some time.

Something about this just doesn't seem to gel.
There's a bit of skullduggery afoot methinks. ;)

Agreed, I think there is stuff happening from both sides of this debate that we do not know about.

The tell for me is that other states SA, NSW and WA that already have infrastructure have also said "No way José", normally it is a hot pot of political competition to attract this type of event, something smells rotten.

To me it's probably a case of too many pigs at the trough on both sides of the fence, and somebody has decided enough is enough. As I mentioned earlier there is a history of alleged dodgy dealings. In particular we might eventually find a litany of alleged kickbacks and graft that we were oblivious to back when we put up our hand for the games.

I think it's pretty predictable and convenient to just blame the politicians, the politicians have to be far more transparent and accountable than any of the other behind the scenes entities.

Also, there are other things that might now be attracting budgetary scrutiny, like what is happening in the Ukraine, and how that affects not just our economy but those of the other competitors. Are the politicians banking cash just in case things go from bad to worse, it would be a wise move.

We sit here reading and discussing $B in waste or excess, and we couldn't get a few $M to build a decent stand and underground carpark at our home ground to turn it into a boutique match centre, a venue that would have guaranteed utility, yet CheatsFC and Bulldogs get $Ms and $Ms for venues that go unused outside of training.

Handbaggers must be laughing all the way to the bank as well, ground fully upgraded with one reason being it was under the guise of use as a regional venue for Commonwealth sport. Games gone, venue free to the Handbaggers, how good is Cook?

Our turn!

Unfortunately, unlike Arden Street and Cheats FC's grounds, ours is located within a major parklands precinct minutes from the city in Greeny Heaven. The locals poo poo'ed the plans Pigs Arse had to redevelop the stadium in an instant. Personally If I lived next door to the ground, I'm far from being a Greeny but I wouldnt be too keen on the constant traffic and noise associated with footy and other events either.

https://www.afr.com/policy/economy/victoria-s-mystery-75b-spending-fund-20230525-p5dbb0

I'll declare I'm not a huge fan of Labour governments and whilst I was supportive of Andrews during the difficult and uncertain Covid period, no matter how you slice and dice it, his Governments spending and management of large infrastructure project budgets has been and continues to be abhorrent.

I'll declare I'm not a huge fan of Labour governments and whilst I was supportive of Andrews during the difficult and uncertain Covid period, no matter how you slice and dice it, his Governments spending and management of large infrastructure project budgets has been and continues to be abhorrent.

I hate talking politics or about politicians and in particular dicktator Dan, but this is the thing that gets me the most. This bloke has consistently blown every other infrastructure project in Victoria out by billions so why is he so sensitive about doing it again on the games? I'll admit I really couldn't care less if they go ahead or not but now that they are scraped can we get some of that money to get the bloody train line out to the airport going again??

I hate talking politics or about politicians and in particular dicktator Dan, but this is the thing that gets me the most. This bloke has consistently blown every other infrastructure project in Victoria out by billions so why is he so sensitive about doing it again on the games? I'll admit I really couldn't care less if they go ahead or not but now that they are scraped can we get some of that money to get the bloody train line out to the airport going again??

Mate don't get me started on the train to the airport, how does it benefit us Victorians? Would you use it? I wouldnt use it in a million years to get to the airport.

Mate don't get me started on the train to the airport, how does it benefit us Victorians? Would you use it? I wouldnt use it in a million years to get to the airport.

Oh, really? No, I'm very much for a rail link to the airport guy. Here I am talking politics when I hate doing so. Each to his own, but for me it's embarrassing that a major city like Melbourne doesn't have that in place. Benefits lots of people, fantastic for tourism, reduces congestion etc. etc. Would definitely use it before;
1. Metro Rail tunnel
2. Suburban rail loop (I'll be dead before that's finished though)
3. Westgate Tunnel.
Anyway, as I said each to his own ..

In principle I support a rail link to the airport, but from a practical point of view I would never use it if there was not an upgrade to the current network.

i live about 12ks south of the CBD.  If the proposed link is built to the airport I would need to get a taxi to my local station, then get off at Southern Cross to catch a train to the airport, lugging suitcases with me.

It's just more convenient to get a taxi direct from home to the airport, even though the cost would no doubt be higher.

In principle I support a rail link to the airport, but from a practical point of view I would never use it if there was not an upgrade to the current network.

i live about 12ks south of the CBD.  If the proposed link is built to the airport I would need to get a taxi to my local station, then get off at Southern Cross to catch a train to the airport, lugging suitcases with me.

It's just more convenient to get a taxi direct from home to the airport, even though the cost would no doubt be higher.

Mrs E and I get the Eastside airport bus, comes to your door and cheaper than cabs or we hit our kids up for a lift..
Wouldnt use the train service either but I appreciate it would provide cheaper direct transport for some and think its a good idea and for a city like Melbourne with increasing population its overdue.

In principle I support a rail link to the airport, but from a practical point of view I would never use it if there was not an upgrade to the current network.

i live about 12ks south of the CBD.  If the proposed link is built to the airport I would need to get a taxi to my local station, then get off at Southern Cross to catch a train to the airport, lugging suitcases with me.

It's just more convenient to get a taxi direct from home to the airport, even though the cost would no doubt be higher.

I've been to a few airports and whilst I've made limited use of the rail links I have used them from other cities and they do provide a lot of convenience.

Business and weekend touros are the ones most likely to make use of this infrastructure.

I imagine footy fans from interstate would be just one example of people who would consider coming from interstate to watch their team if there was a rail link.

I've been to a few airports and whilst I've made limited use of the rail links I have used them from other cities and they do provide a lot of convenience.

Business and weekend touros are the ones most likely to make use of this infrastructure.

I imagine footy fans from interstate would be just one example of people who would consider coming from interstate to watch their team if there was a rail link.

Have never used trains in other countries for transfers from airports to hotels, especially on first time visits to countries where you dont know the lay of the land. They are a cess pit for crooks and pick pockets. I prefer to organise pre booked cabs. Dont want to sound like a prat but if I'm affording a holiday trip (international or domestic), a cab fare here and there aint going to save the bank balance. I personally think a rail link at our airport is a total waste of taxpayer money, that's just my view, each to their own.

I've been to many an overseas city, and i reckon i've used the rail from the airport in every one of them.

Not sure if i'd use the one in Melbourne now, but it definitely would've been handy in the past.

The best way for me to get to the airport previously from the northern suburbs was to catch a train/tram to the city and then the skybus to the airport.....or catch a cab (5 times the price) or an uber....but that wasn't around back in the day.

How does it help Victorians? Tourism. Interstate/overseas people spending money in our city benefits those who live in it.

East West Link? $1.1B to not build it, then announced the western distributor which costs have blown out to the shizenhousen.

I've spoken about this before, but Dan cops a lot of flak for this....usually from Liberals or lib voters.

Looking at the timeline/history of it paints a very different picture.
Libs did the budget for it and said it would cost 4bn and pushed it through quickly right before Dan got in power.
Dan and co looked at it and said the whole project would actually cost 20bn. So he had a choice. Go ahead with someone pushed through from the opposition and deal with the expected 16bn cost overrun he had no control over
or
spend 1bn to void the contract and spend the rest of the money doing things deemed more important....eg rail crossing removal.
Now i hazard a guess that everyone on here has seen the benefit of that on our roads.

What would you have done in the same situation?

East West link would have been nice.

East West link would have been nice.

Personally, i never would've used it.

Its a bit like TDK though. The price tag doesn't fit the benefit. ;)

I've spoken about this before, but Dan cops a lot of flak for this....usually from Liberals or lib voters.

Looking at the timeline/history of it paints a very different picture.
Libs did the budget for it and said it would cost 4bn and pushed it through quickly right before Dan got in power.
Dan and co looked at it and said the whole project would actually cost 20bn. So he had a choice. Go ahead with someone pushed through from the opposition and deal with the expected 16bn cost overrun he had no control over
or
spend 1bn to void the contract and spend the rest of the money doing things deemed more important....eg rail crossing removal.
Now i hazard a guess that everyone on here has seen the benefit of that on our roads.

What would you have done in the same situation?

Are you sure of these figures? Where did you find 20bn? Many suggested figures show 1.78bn initially and a recent calculation of 4.8bn. It didn’t blow out that bad. It couldn’t blow out by 16bn unless he planned to by another country to use as a venue to host some of the events. 20 billion dollars, or cents. Sorry for the sarcasm but I can’t see this as a possible realistic estimate. 3 to 4 times more than any Olympic event ever held in history and some countries needed major infrastructure spending in the past (Olympic event, not Commonwealth Games). Major to say the least. Considering we have many venues available as we speak. Swimming, diving, track and field, velodrome etc. All used in international competitions and credited by international standards. So where was all this money going to be spent? What needs 20 billion dollars invested into? You stated 20 billion not me. I thought it was shy of 5. Maybe you found more than I am aware of. Not having a go, but 20 billion is simply ridiculous. 20 thousand million is more money than any country could spend. I might do more internet research on this.

Are you sure of these figures? Where did you find 20bn? Many suggested figures show 1.78bn initially and a recent calculation of 4.8bn. It didn’t blow out that bad. It couldn’t blow out by 16bn unless he planned to by another country to use as a venue to host some of the events. 20 billion dollars, or cents. Sorry for the sarcasm but I can’t see this as a possible realistic estimate. 3 to 4 times more than any Olympic event ever held in history and some countries needed major infrastructure spending in the past (Olympic event, not Commonwealth Games). Major to say the least. Considering we have many venues available as we speak. Swimming, diving, track and field, velodrome etc. All used in international competitions and credited by international standards. So where was all this money going to be spent? What needs 20 billion dollars invested into? You stated 20 billion not me. I thought it was shy of 5. Maybe you found more than I am aware of. Not having a go, but 20 billion is simply ridiculous. 20 thousand million is more money than any country could spend. I might do more internet research on this.

We are talking about different things.
I'm talking about the east West link

Personally, i never would've used it.

Its a bit like TDK though. The price tag doesn't fit the benefit. ;)

I will probably never use the tunnel they're boring in the west but I'm sure it's very much needed.

Big things like tunnels always seem expensive up front, then once they are completed up and working people usually start asking why it took so long to happen, or that it should have happened years ago!

Same applies to sporting talent.

Some people are pessimists while others are optimists, the position taken in various debates is more dependant on that than any selected facts.

I will probably never use the tunnel they're boring in the west but I'm sure it's very much needed.

They need another hospital more...Sunshine is shambolic at best.

100 percent EB - and we all know it's easier to constantly tinker with infrastructure and keep his union mates in well paid work while hospitals languish.  Hospitals cost a bomb but we can't find the staff to man them because the feds have gutted the higher education sector...we can barely staff the hospitals we already have.

100 percent EB - and we all know it's easier to constantly tinker with infrastructure and keep his union mates in well paid work while hospitals languish.  Hospitals cost a bomb but we can't find the staff to man them because the feds have gutted the higher education sector...we can barely staff the hospitals we already have.

We can't staff hospitals.
There is a major shortage in the Building and construction industry.....where is everybody working??

Because all the kids today are influencers or baristas

Because all the kids today are influencers or baristas

I don't use instagram and i don't drink Coffee, so there's a whole generation of useless people to me.

Because all the kids today are influencers or baristas

Because kids these days are taught to complain, protest, invent genders and run on fields with orange dirt instead of working hard and using their brains to solve the worlds problems.

To understand the folly of Victoria’s aborted Commonwealth Games, the best place to start is the freshly rendered streets of Armstrong Creek. It is here, in a colony of new housing estates clumped halfway along a road that runs between Geelong and the Surf Coast, that Australia’s best swimmers would have ruled the pool in 2026.

To make this happen and bequeath to a fast-growing, aspirational community what the Andrews government promised would be a “long-lasting and world-class venue,” the Victoria 2026 organisers were given a blueprint that, if not so far-fetched, would read like satire.

The state would spend $111 million on an architecturally designed aquatics centre with two 10-lane, 50-metre, internationally accredited swimming pools, a diving pool and enough temporary stands to seat spectators, officials, sponsors and media at one of the most popular events on the Games program.

Once the closing ceremony had been held down the road at Kardinia Park in Geelong, both 50-metre pools would be yanked out of the ground, the stands pulled down and a permanent building constructed around the diving pool. This would leave the young families of Armstrong Creek and neighbouring communities with a modest, 25-metre pool for their kids to take swimming lessons, cool off in summer and perhaps dream of being the next Emma McKeon

This was the plan until the early hours of Tuesday, when lawyers representing the Victorian government informed an unsuspecting Commonwealth Games Federation that they were scrapping the entire show. But it wasn’t the plan conceived by the people who put together Victoria’s Games bid, nor the brainchild of anyone in Victoria 2026 or the Office of the Commonwealth Games; the twin bureaucracies established to deliver the ill-fated event.

The idea of holding the swimming at Armstrong Creek purportedly originated from deep within Premier Daniel Andrews’ office, sometime between April and July 2022, for reasons that appear to have more to do with making an electoral splash than staging the best event or even satisfying the government’s stated purpose for hosting the Games – to create a tangible legacy for regional communities.

The original plan was for the swimming to be held at an existing aquatic centre at Kardinia Park. This is why, on March 1, 2022, Dame Louise Martin and Katie Sadleir from the Commonwealth Games Federation, Ben Houston and Craig Phillips from Commonwealth Games Australia and Visit Victoria chief Brendan McClements – the person who had pitched Victoria’s bid three months earlier – travelled to Geelong with senior government bureaucrats to tour that site.

This is the plan the City of Greater Geelong council supported. At the time, Games planners had a new gymnastics venue pencilled in next to the pool. This would have established Kardinia Park as a central Games precinct and, after the event, given the neighbouring Geelong Football Club access to a high-roofed, indoor training

“When we went to candidature it was in the bid,” said a member of the organising committee, speaking anonymously because they were not authorised to speak publicly about the venue deliberations. “At some stage, the venue plan shifted to building this facility to Armstrong Creek. When we found out what they were actually building, it was quite bizarre.”

Another Games official, also unauthorised to speak publicly, said there were space constraints at Kardinia Park that would have made it difficult – though not impossible – to fit everything in. Before the proposal was costed, organisers received word from Spring Street that the swimming was shifting to Armstrong Creek. “It was driven by government, undoubtedly,” the official said.

Why did Andrews want to stage an international swimming event in Armstrong Creek rather than at a central Geelong location which already had a 50-metre pool, was close to a train station and had a proven record of being able to handle large crowds?

“We promised a new aquatic centre in the growing community of Armstrong Creek to make sure that, rather than upgrading an existing pool at Kardinia Park, the legacy benefits will remain for generations of families – and that’s exactly what we’ll still deliver,” a spokesperson for the premier said on Friday.

Another clue may lie within last year’s state election campaign.

Kardinia Park is located in the electorate of Geelong, a safe Labor seat held by a 10 per cent margin before last year’s election. Armstrong Creek is located in the neighbouring electorate of South Barwon, a seat held by Labor’s Darren Cheeseman on a margin of just 3 per cent before the election and a seat the Liberal Party had to win if the Coalition hoped to return to power.

It was not until October 29, two days before Victoria entered its caretaker period ahead of the November election, that the Andrews government formally announced the swimming and diving would be staged at Armstrong Creek. It pledged to spend $300 million on the aquatics centre and a new gymnastics and weightlifting stadium at Waurn Ponds. On election night, South Barwon delivered the largest swing to Labor of any seat in the state.

To understand the folly of Victoria’s aborted Commonwealth Games, the best place to start is the freshly rendered streets of Armstrong Creek. It is here, in a colony of new housing estates clumped halfway along a road that runs between Geelong and the Surf Coast, that Australia’s best swimmers would have ruled the pool in 2026.

To make this happen and bequeath to a fast-growing, aspirational community what the Andrews government promised would be a “long-lasting and world-class venue,” the Victoria 2026 organisers were given a blueprint that, if not so far-fetched, would read like satire.

The state would spend $111 million on an architecturally designed aquatics centre with two 10-lane, 50-metre, internationally accredited swimming pools, a diving pool and enough temporary stands to seat spectators, officials, sponsors and media at one of the most popular events on the Games program.

Once the closing ceremony had been held down the road at Kardinia Park in Geelong, both 50-metre pools would be yanked out of the ground, the stands pulled down and a permanent building constructed around the diving pool. This would leave the young families of Armstrong Creek and neighbouring communities with a modest, 25-metre pool for their kids to take swimming lessons, cool off in summer and perhaps dream of being the next Emma McKeon

This was the plan until the early hours of Tuesday, when lawyers representing the Victorian government informed an unsuspecting Commonwealth Games Federation that they were scrapping the entire show. But it wasn’t the plan conceived by the people who put together Victoria’s Games bid, nor the brainchild of anyone in Victoria 2026 or the Office of the Commonwealth Games; the twin bureaucracies established to deliver the ill-fated event.

The idea of holding the swimming at Armstrong Creek purportedly originated from deep within Premier Daniel Andrews’ office, sometime between April and July 2022, for reasons that appear to have more to do with making an electoral splash than staging the best event or even satisfying the government’s stated purpose for hosting the Games – to create a tangible legacy for regional communities.

The original plan was for the swimming to be held at an existing aquatic centre at Kardinia Park. This is why, on March 1, 2022, Dame Louise Martin and Katie Sadleir from the Commonwealth Games Federation, Ben Houston and Craig Phillips from Commonwealth Games Australia and Visit Victoria chief Brendan McClements – the person who had pitched Victoria’s bid three months earlier – travelled to Geelong with senior government bureaucrats to tour that site.

This is the plan the City of Greater Geelong council supported. At the time, Games planners had a new gymnastics venue pencilled in next to the pool. This would have established Kardinia Park as a central Games precinct and, after the event, given the neighbouring Geelong Football Club access to a high-roofed, indoor training

“When we went to candidature it was in the bid,” said a member of the organising committee, speaking anonymously because they were not authorised to speak publicly about the venue deliberations. “At some stage, the venue plan shifted to building this facility to Armstrong Creek. When we found out what they were actually building, it was quite bizarre.”

Another Games official, also unauthorised to speak publicly, said there were space constraints at Kardinia Park that would have made it difficult – though not impossible – to fit everything in. Before the proposal was costed, organisers received word from Spring Street that the swimming was shifting to Armstrong Creek. “It was driven by government, undoubtedly,” the official said.

Why did Andrews want to stage an international swimming event in Armstrong Creek rather than at a central Geelong location which already had a 50-metre pool, was close to a train station and had a proven record of being able to handle large crowds?

“We promised a new aquatic centre in the growing community of Armstrong Creek to make sure that, rather than upgrading an existing pool at Kardinia Park, the legacy benefits will remain for generations of families – and that’s exactly what we’ll still deliver,” a spokesperson for the premier said on Friday.

Another clue may lie within last year’s state election campaign.

Kardinia Park is located in the electorate of Geelong, a safe Labor seat held by a 10 per cent margin before last year’s election. Armstrong Creek is located in the neighbouring electorate of South Barwon, a seat held by Labor’s Darren Cheeseman on a margin of just 3 per cent before the election and a seat the Liberal Party had to win if the Coalition hoped to return to power.

It was not until October 29, two days before Victoria entered its caretaker period ahead of the November election, that the Andrews government formally announced the swimming and diving would be staged at Armstrong Creek. It pledged to spend $300 million on the aquatics centre and a new gymnastics and weightlifting stadium at Waurn Ponds. On election night, South Barwon delivered the largest swing to Labor of any seat in the state.

MBB you must me tired after posting all that, take a break mate ;D  ;D

Dan Andrews has pulled the plug after his reign of terror and will officially take the money and run tomorrow at 5pm after spending all of our money and leaving behind a trail of debt..

Dan Andrews has pulled the plug after his reign of terror and will officially take the money and run tomorrow at 5pm after spending all of our money and leaving behind a trail of debt..

Good riddance

I happen to agree.

Dan Andrews has pulled the plug after his reign of terror and will officially take the money and run tomorrow at 5pm after spending all of our money and leaving behind a trail of debt..

He wont care.  Will just take the range rover to the holiday home like the rest of the politicians.

They earn big dollars, and ride the gravy train for life, yet somehow are entrusted to make economic decisions that they can't really rationalise because they havent been in that socio economic demographic for a long time, if ever at all.

Dan Andrews has pulled the plug after his reign of terror and will officially take the money and run tomorrow at 5pm after spending all of our money and leaving behind a trail of debt..

Bolts with the state on its knees with spiralling debt all overseen by his government- the arrogance and stubbornness this bloke showed throughout his ruling was disgusting. Watch him pack up and leave the ruined state and live out his days interstate regionally before he takes a bigger tumble down more stairs. You watch.

During the last election campaigning he re assured voters despite all the rumours he would not be stepping down and would see his term out.

A liar till the very end.

Firstly, no political allegiance here. My own personal opinion is that once you become a rusted on supporter of either major party or many of the minor parties, you no longer have use for your brain as someone else's ideology does your thinking for you. Keeping the brain stem only will allow eating, breathing, walking, abluting, play with phones/TVs/computers and sleeping, which is all that'll be required.

When I look at Andrews I don't see a one-dimensional character, but rather a determined, committed, stubborn, secretive and sometimes too authoritarian/non-accountable dude - a lot like many pollies. He's overseen some important improvements to Victoria's infrastructure, though, personally, I think it would have made more sense to do some of the more urgent infrastructure and spend more on strong improvements to public transport (to encourage drivers to get off the roads!!) and healthcare - just about all pollies over the decades have neglected this area... embarrassingly so.

His contribution to traffic flow in Melbourne is probably a strong positive, but... to the detriment of more important, human, initiatives. The Commonwealth Games fiasco was a monumental cock-up which won't serve his legacy in the slightest. Smart move to nick off now.

Bolts with the state on its knees with spiralling debt all overseen by his government- the arrogance and stubbornness this bloke showed throughout his ruling was disgusting. Watch him pack up and leave the ruined state and live out his days interstate regionally before he takes a bigger tumble down more stairs. You watch.

During the last election campaigning he re assured voters despite all the rumours he would not be stepping down and would see his term out.

A liar till the very end.

Wonder what triggered his decision to go early?....have a bad feeling Victorians are all going to be paying bigtime for whatever it is.

Clearly most Victorians don't agree with you. Won an election no one thought he would win and then two landslides. Leaving on his own terms. Haters will hate. The most successful Premier since Sir Henry Bolte. Sometimes you're on the wrong side in a contest. Get over yourselves.

I have to say, I'm undecided on what I think about Andrews. Like many politicians before him, I think he has done both good and bad. I can't say for sure but I would doubt he ever set out to hurt anyone or any group, but the reality is some of his governments decisions indeed have. I liken being a politician to a wedding reception menu, some will like it, some won't.

Comrade Dan's success at winning elections is more a reflection on how hopeless the Liberal opposition has been.....you need good opposition to create a good Government hence Andrews has been able to run amok and not be held accountable.
He either blames or sacks his own ministers once he has used them up or says he cant remember anything when the media have him cornered...brilliant politician, lousy Premier.

He was horrible - far too authoritarian.

Good Riddance.

The dictator leaves behind rental crisis, ambo response crisis, health waiting list crisis, debt crisis, teachers crisis, a cbd crisis, police recruitment crisis, crippling taxes most of any state and a train line that will never be finished!
 
Then we have the quarantine disaster taking 800 lives. No other place in the world had anything like the lockdowns we did and now as a result have debt our great grand children will still be paying off.

He leaves behind him, a Victorian debt that is larger than the combined total of NSW, Queensland and Tasmania. I generally hate all politicians but this arken tool I've hated like no other. I'd rather support Collingwood than this flog.
Thank God it's over.

He timed it perfectly. Jacinta Kirner.. I mean Allen will be the face of the mess that has been left.

He leaves behind him, a Victorian debt that is larger than the combined total of NSW, Queensland and Tasmania. I generally hate all politicians but this arken tool I've hated like no other. I'd rather support Collingwood than this flog.
Thank God it's over.

thats too far.  I'd still rather support him than Collingwood, but I'd be hoping one of his covid responses would cancel the season...

Steely Dan melts away.

Don’t say Dan Andrews didn’t do much for the people of the state he represented. He did one huge thing that many people will appreciate and clap and cheer him for. He even gets my applause. He quit. Thank the lord. Don’t let the door smack you on the way out. At least I will never have to listen to “I don’t recall, I can’t remember, and it wasn’t my job task to address that issue”.  It would be interesting for those experts here who could find out what his retirement entitlement would be, alone with all the other perks and benefits he will enjoy for the rest of his life. He announced a few times this since he won the last election that he might not try for another term in office. He also spoke to the public a few times that he might not stay for this full current term. Dan had to use his powers to win office and keep his party in power. He did that. He has had to go about business as usual to keep his constituents thinking he is still working for them. Unfortunately the financial position this state is in is in trouble like never seen before. We will all suffer as tax payers. At a guess our kids will too. Maybe their kids also. Missing out on funding in areas that will benefit those that need it the most.

Good luck to the new leader. You know you can’t continue your role based on the reputation of your past leader. You now need to dig deep and make some new changes and choices. A larger population of Victoria will not even know who you are. I wish you the best being given a huge task with the worst budget going around in the political world. I am seriously thinking of moving to Queensland. Way before my property has little worth.

Clearly most Victorians don't agree with you. Won an election no one thought he would win and then two landslides. Leaving on his own terms. Haters will hate. The most successful Premier since Sir Henry Bolte. Sometimes you're on the wrong side in a contest. Get over yourselves.

35% of the popular vote is hardly a landslide and given labor have unionised rusted on vote, its not a huge number of avergae Joes. Read the room. He's a prick who has left the state in more bebt than the rest of states combined.

Personally, i never would've used it.

Its a bit like TDK though. The price tag doesn't fit the benefit. ;)

Funny the independent recommendations committee suggested it was the most important investment available to Victoria not long after he was first elected, unsurprisingly Dan ignored the advice and canned it at huge cost regardless. Turns out he had a thing for throwing away our money for nothing..

Steely Dan melts away.

Yep. He sure did reel in those years but for sure won't be asked to do it again. I've already lost his number.

Oh dear. Is that the door? Using it now...

Count the seats, that tells you how much he won by. People who hate Andrews have wanted him to resign. Now that he has resigned they claim he is running away. A lot of people spend their lives bitching about life and pontificating on what should happen, others actuality get out and do something about it. Get the mirror out and see what sort of people you are. By the way, enjoy the public holiday this Friday.

@Blue Moon‍ hands out a brutal shirt front.

The problem isn't just the general public, the attitude carried by the general public originates and is promoted by the politicians, the politicians spend all their time mud slinging, so mud slinging becomes the de facto language of politics.

In the US Biden tries to change this, but the media then slam him as senile and deflecting, or assert he is criminal when he refuses to buy into the debate, which is bizarre given the people the main accusations come from!

Here in Oz Turnbull tried to change the narrative only to fall victim to his own party's very worst offenders.

The problem is the higher ground doesn't suit the likes of Murdoch, they want the mud as it does the job for them in gathering ratings, reporting and verifying facts is boring. So politicians do what is expected and game that system, so we get The Donald as a reward, which is ironic because Murdoch it seems hates The Donald because The Donald uses lies to make Murdoch's lies appear like lies, the one thing you can't use to fight lies is more lies!

Count the seats, that tells you how much he won by. People who hate Andrews have wanted him to resign. Now that he has resigned they claim he is running away. A lot of people spend their lives bitching about life and pontificating on what should happen, others actuality get out and do something about it. Get the mirror out and see what sort of people you are. By the way, enjoy the public holiday this Friday.

You're the only one bitching and moaning here.

Nothing like personal abuse to win an argument.

Nothing like personal abuse to win an argument.

They were your words.

Well the "Govern me harder please Daddy" is gone and hopefully his sycophants can see less tunnel vision.

Well the "Govern me harder please Daddy" is gone and hopefully his sycophants can see less tunnel vision.

I just hope this new team can adopt some football commentary parlance and "Listen to the Fans!".

I just hope this new team can adopt some football commentary parlance and "Listen to the Fans!".

Most of the loudest voices are minorities or radicals, they shout from the tree tops but they do not represent the majority, and we do not want that sort of chaos! ;)

I just hope this new team can adopt some football commentary parlance and "Listen to the Fans!".

The puns are already rolling out pedal to the metal, I've just seen a poster of Jacinta Allan's head of Eddie Van Halen's body with the caption "Ban Allan"

Seems like he was corrupt within his own Party but good for the state. Had great vision for his state and was always front and centre in a crisis. Even 2 weeks ago he was still 56-44 up 2PP, greater than at the last election. Certainly polarised people but a great percentage those who said they vote Labor said it was due to Andrews. Like anything, it was the vocal minority that made the most noise.

Seems like he was corrupt within his own Party but good for the state. Had great vision for his state and was always front and centre in a crisis. Even 2 weeks ago he was still 56-44 up 2PP, greater than at the last election. Certainly polarised people but a great percentage those who said they vote Labor said it was due to Andrews. Like anything, it was the vocal minority that made the most noise.

Hannibal Lecter would have won votes against the Liberal Party candidates.

Nah pure hate for this guy we had two businesses and had to close them due to his authoritaniasm and we will never be compensated for his zealousness of delusions of grandeur in WEF style. He has turned the state in a Woke dystopia and we are left holding the bag. HATE HIM.

Nah pure hate for this guy we had two businesses and had to close them due to his authoritaniasm and we will never be compensated for his zealousness of delusions of grandeur in WEF style. He has turned the state in a Woke dystopia and we are left holding the bag. HATE HIM.

Don’t forget he ate babies…

Don’t forget he ate babies…

I will still punch him in the face if I see him in the street :)

 

I will still punch him in the face if I see him in the street :)

I dead set dreamt last night that he lived in my street for years, he was walking by my house and I spoke to him for the first time since he moved in. ;D  ;D  ;D

Seems like he was corrupt within his own Party but good for the state. Had great vision for his state and was always front and centre in a crisis. Even 2 weeks ago he was still 56-44 up 2PP, greater than at the last election. Certainly polarised people but a great percentage those who said they vote Labor said it was due to Andrews. Like anything, it was the vocal minority that made the most noise.

The guy is a flog. Publicly said it's not for me to decide who my successor is then tore strips off of them for daring to challenge his apprentice. He was a great politician and great at winning elections but is Victoria better than it was a decade ago? No, not by any measure.

The guy is a flog. Publicly said it's not for me to decide who my successor is then tore strips off of them for daring to challenge his apprentice. He was a great politician and great at winning elections but is Victoria better than it was a decade ago? No, not by any measure.

What he said x2.