Remember, guys, use this thread when the game is over!
An utter smashing, every single one of our blokes who pulled on the jumper tonight will find the review of the game excruciatingly painful and embarrassing to watch. To think we couldn't have fielded a much better side, that loss set us back a very long way IMO. The mental scares from that drubbing will last longer than the 2 losses at the end of 2022. We are pretenders.
March Premiers
I don’t think we’ve possessed the ball at all tonight, the cows came out all pumped up (as we feared) but we got sucked into running and gunning instead of holding the ball and stifling them.
Time to look, watch, study and regroup.
Remember, guys, use this thread when the game is over!
You mean wait till the siren goes ..... :D
This one was over at 1/4 time sadly.
Abberation I reckon - boys looked a little tired three games in almost two weeks.... 10 day break and lads need to bounce back.
An utter smashing, every single one of our blokes who pulled on the jumper tonight will find the review of the game excruciatingly painful and embarrassing to watch. To think we couldn't have fielded a much better side, that loss set us back a very long way IMO. The mental scares from that drubbing will last longer than the 2 losses at the end of 2022. We are pretenders.
Wish I could disagree with your review but it is spot on.
We look the same as the last 2 weeks just the Crows are way better than North and GWS.
We look the same as the last 2 weeks just the Crows are way better than North and GWS.
I’d have to agree.
We look the same as the last 2 weeks just the Crows are way better than North and GWS.
Defence totally broke down this week unfortunately for us and midfield well it's a concern - all the injuries and what not unable to build cohesion. Here's hoping the midfield group can stick together uninjured for next 10 games and build cohesion because they have to.
That was as bad as the Bolton & Teague years !!!
Getting spanked by 10-goals is just unacceptable on all possible levels, there is no excuse for playing like that.
We look the same as the last 2 weeks just the Crows are way better than North and GWS.
Disagree, the first three weeks we didn't play our best but we won. We could not have played worse if we tried, not a single bloke beat his opponent tonight. I could rant on and single out blokes who aren't up to it but there is no point. Every coach and every one of of 23 players were embarrassing from the first bounce to the final siren. I cannot recall a worse performance from a Carlton side, that will sting for a long time. But that's ok, we will give them all a cuddle, fly home, have a bit of a train next week and get another rogering from the Saints. I wonder if the penny will ever drop for our club.
I don’t think we’ve possessed the ball at all tonight, the cows came out all pumped up (as we feared) but we got sucked into running and gunning instead of holding the ball and stifling them.
Time to look, watch, study and regroup.
Fair points NB...we are not a quick team and have a lot of slow coalface mids and needed to get the game on our terms
and be more methodical with Charlie and Harry as the focus but we just ended up chasing and trying to slingshot the ball back
usually to Crows players with ours all out of position up the ground and the cycle just has been repeated all night.
When Ed is our best mid for the match there are problems in the middle.
Started badly and couldn't recover. I thought the boys at least showed up and put up some fight in the 2nd, 3rd and part of the 4th, but got run over in the end. The Crows are building to something pretty good, don't worry about that. They will claim some decent scalps this season.
Oh well......
The only positive I can dredge up: 75 tackles. Not sure how many gave us an advantage though.
Not so positive: A total flogging by this team is a lesson to anyone getting ahead of themselves.
We are going to lose games but a 10 goal defeat at almost full strength is a head scratcher - lets see how we go next week. If we get smacked by 10 goals again then serious questions need to be asked.
I think the stats prove how bogus the stats can be, if anybody seriously thinks we won the clearances tonight they must have been watching the game in reverse!
I think it was our worst stoppage / midfield game for almost three years!
Vossy's presser will be interesting. I'm sure it will be measured but inside he will be seething, upset with himself, his assistants, his players, just an awful performance.
It's always easy when you are winning and the big name players are doing the bulk of the heavy lifting, however, It's games like tonight that supporters get to see what some of our players are really like.
I’m all in for a serious flip of players at the end of the season, tonight showed just how poor some of the lesser lights are and cannot be relied upon to take up the fight when the big guns are down.
I'm sure people will say "go and do another Sacked, Cracked & Backed list" but honestly, just have a good hard think about what you saw tonight and how little some of the players offer us.
Some of the young Crows players who have had very little senior game time made our players look like chumps, they wanted it more, were prepared to make sacrifices whilst sticking to what ever their gameplan is.
Zac Fisher
Tom De Koning
Josh Honey
Lachie Plowman
Ed Curnow
Looked tired and flat need a 10 day break
But need some changes as TDK can't handle the ruck and he has Rowan Marshall next week.
I wouldn't trust Plowman to butter my toast.
I haven't been convinced we're on the up in the first 4 rounds. This though, is an entirely different level of inadequacy.
Will be fascinated to see what the coaches do with this. There are so many lessons, I can't imagine where they'll start. Lesson 1...... 118 🫣
It's one L after 4 unconvincing W's. I hope this pathetic outing doesn't come back to haunt us like it did last year. I thought they might have learned from that one because it was pivotal in shaping our season.
TdK is a massive concern. Tired of waiting for him to show up.
Too many passengers - again.
Contested footy used to be our one wood ... So where the F is it this season Voss!?!
As per momentum, I thought Motlop was monstered in the 1st q, he could’ve had 3 frees early but nada…
Happy the club is holding off giving TDK a big contract
Well that was one hell of a sh1te show.
We are not ruthless enough have too many one paced front runners and our bottom 6 are bottom of the ladder standard. Really thought we could go deep into finals and yes this is only one loss but the nature of the loss says more then just one loss imo.
Really thought the embarrassing losses were over. Think again.
We are middle of the road folks and have a real lack of depth as the loss of Doc was a massive imo as we have very few that run in an attacking way he does and when you also rely on a player as fragile as McGovern you know your not a genuine threat this year.
We need to get some structure to the way we play, as I said earlier, every one of our possessions is one in hope as opposed to anything deliberate and methodical. Bombing it high and long into the fwd line is not the answer. Stupid over head backwards handballs to players under pressure or to the oppo is not the answer.
Our list is slow, the odd one with pace doesn't contribute anything. Tonight we needed a line breaker, Saad was obliterated by Keays and lost confidence. Apart from him, we had no one that we can get the ball into their hands and carry it.
Our slow play is disastrous. We need to train this aspect of our game and improve it to a evel that is at a minimum, better than embarrassing. Our players tonight refused to work hard to get to space and provide a low pressure outlet to the person with the ball. Stagnant, lots of pointing, it just doesn't cut it.
Anyone who thinks we are top 4 is delusional so lets put that to bed now.
Playing games like tonight will see us missing the 8 again Im afraid.
Lastly, there's a lot in the theme songs of the two sides tonight the typifies what we saw:
"Pride of South Australia" - Pride is indeed what they played with.
"The team that never lets you down" - Dont worry about us supporters for a minute, more importantly, tonight you let yourselves down, that's players, coaches, boot studders, every single one of you. That will hurt a lot.
David king who I can’t stand laughed at Wheatley when he said carlton should win the next 5 in a row a few weeks back.
Farrrrrrrrrrk.
And one more thing, we also need to learn to be the hunter week in week out instead of the hunted. We got sucked in by the media hype and didn't hunt the opposition. We believed our own BS thinking we were better than we actually are and got hunted and smashed.
We need to get some structure to the way we play, as I said earlier, every one of our possessions is one in hope as opposed to anything deliberate and methodical. Bombing it high and long into the fwd line is not the answer. Stupid over head backwards handballs to players under pressure or to the oppo is not the answer.
Our list is slow, the odd one with pace doesn't contribute anything. Tonight we needed a line breaker, Saad was obliterated by Keays and lost confidence. Apart from him, we had no one that we can get the ball into their hands and carry it.
Our slow play is disastrous. We need to train this aspect of our game and improve it to a evel that is at a minimum, better than embarrassing. Our players tonight refused to work hard to get to space and provide a low pressure outlet to the person with the ball. Stagnant, lots of pointing, it just doesn't cut it.
Anyone who thinks we are top 4 is delusional so lets put that to bed now.
Playing games like tonight will see us missing the 8 again Im afraid.
Lastly, there's a lot in the theme songs of the two sides tonight the typifies what we saw:
"Pride of South Australia" - Pride is indeed what they played with.
"The team that never lets you down" - Dont worry about us supporters for a minute, more importantly, tonight you let yourselves down, that's players, coaches, boot studders, every single one of you. That will hurt a lot.
Surprised we fell for the Keays move again, thats a coaching fail imho.
Agree we are slow but the Crows had us playing a high speed game which doesnt suit and we needed to slow the game down to
make it more methodical and force them to man up but as you say we didnt work hard enough to find space and kept firing the ball to contests which they were winning...missed Docherty in that regard.
The Walker/Fogarty combo like Keays seems to throw us out as well, our defense looked wobbly and like last time we couldnt seem to stick a tackle on those two and looked overpowered as well.
I still think we can make top 4 and use this game as a learning experience and probably do our homework a bit better on a few of their players. Dawson has been BOG for the last two games yet appeared to be running free off Cripps especially early and I cant understand why we let this happen against key players in the opposition.
Unfortunately this ^^^^ @ GiC is spot on.
Sad but true.
We have so much work ahead of us. For as long as our injury list keeps refreshing itself, we'll forego finals.
(Carlton 10 v Crows 2)
Well that was one hell of a sh1te show.
We are not ruthless enough have too many one paced front runners and our bottom 6 are bottom of the ladder standard. Really thought we could go deep into finals and yes this is only one loss but the nature of the loss says more then just one loss imo.
Really thought the embarrassing losses were over. Think again.
We are middle of the road folks and have a real lack of depth as the loss of Doc was a massive imo as we have very few that run in an attacking way he does and when you also rely on a player as fragile as McGovern you know your not a genuine threat this year.
In addition to everything you have said, we can add the dreaded last quarter fadeout. I had hoped it belonged in the past, but after last week when we allowed so many junk time goals in the last quarter and again faded tonight, it's something else to worry about.
Always going to have a stinker. It happens. All sides do in a long season, although a full post mortem is always required after a bad loss to avoid unacceptable repeats. It's about how we learn and rebound next week. A second consecurive stinker would be another matter.
I saw it coming. We won consecutive games getting away with not being switched on. Eventually that leads only one way, to generally a rude awakening.
Lads need to be rested for few days and I will be concerned if they dont bounce back next week.
We were on a hiding to nothing tonight. Biggest night in Adelaide football history against a home team that is flying. Over in 30 minutes of probably the best football we have seen from any team this season.
Observations :
* Our D50 work was deplorable - they took 20 marks inside F50, most of which became set shots.
* The way we let their mids and half-backs stroll through the middle unpressured and pick off targets with ease didn't help the defenders. Our work on defensive transition is a major concern. Has Crippa ever heard of the word chase? Barely gets out of first gear.
* I actually think our most important player is Doc - he is clearly the back-half organiser, without him there, we were a bit of a rabble. Fancy letting Keays and Fogarty kick 8 between them. McGovern's absence was felt as well.
* Our forward line is lacking direction. Just kicking it on top of the big guys is far too predictable.
* We are in real trouble when our most competitive ruckman is Jack Silvagni
* I am really concerned that we are not much better than last year and any sides that can run fast will chop us up.
* Plowman should not be picked again. Can't understand why they didn't go with Cincotta tonight.
There really needs to be some changes in what we are doing, or we'll be mid-table yet again and going nowhere.
Called it
Lads need to be rested for few days and I will be concerned if they dont bounce back next week.
im telling you from now, be concerned.
We could not have played worse if we tried, not a single bloke beat his opponent tonight.
I thought Newman was good against Rankine, who plays for free kicks more than anyone I can recently recall.
Not that it made a bit of difference but the free kick against us in the first quarter - for running the ball out of bounds at half back - was an absolute stinker because he was pushed out (partly in the back) when off balance trying (unsuccessfully) to kick the ball while running at top speed.
After that effort the game against the Saints is going to see more pain as an end result.
I thought Newman was good against Rankine, who plays for free kicks more than anyone I can recently recall.
Whilst you're on that topic, we have quite a few blokes who play for free kicks every they go near the ball. Im not going to name names about anything related to performance last night as in my opinion, NOT ONE bloke can go home with his head high after that abomination of a night for our once proud football club.
If you can't say anything nice, then don't say anything at all!
I had a heap of things to say but for 20+years nothing has changed despite all of our insightful knowledge and advice.
I went to the game, pity the Carlton Football Club didn't. >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( :( :(
The boys looked knackered from the first bounce, and were comprehensively out hunted, particularly in the first. I was pleased to see some kind of response for 2 and a bit quarters, and then they dropped their bundle for the last 10 minutes.
This was always going to be a challenge, and losing Pittonet, Docherty and McGovern just made it that much harder. Trying to cover for those blokes just had a domino effect - Silvagni to the ruck meant that entries to the F50 were all directed to Curnow and McKay, something which was easy to manage by the Crows, Kennedy spent large chunks of time in defence, meaning we were one down in the midfield etc. Ugh. What a mess.
The Crows could do no wrong last night. Even their clash jumper looked good.
Ive read comments about last night being like the last three weeks etc, it was absolutely nothing like the last 3 weeks. We have been able to find a way, correct the structural issues and win the important areas we were losing in previous.
Last night we did nothing to address the important areas. Dont look at tackles or I50s numbers, look at the effectiveness of those areas. We butchered every single aspect of the game, basic skills like kicking and handballs, structure, tactics, defence, forward play, ground ball gets, ruckwork, marking. Our tackling is deplorable last night, we went too low (probably because they are trained to do it to not give away free kicks) which resulted in the man being left with his whole upper body free. They had time to look around, pick out the best option and away they went.
And when they did give it off, it was to a man in space. That is the single most important thing we need to work on, pronto. Forget about pure leg speed, we simply dont have it. Get it into space (as opposed to congestion) and watch how quick you look with time on our side. That requires smart positioning (structures, shape) and work rate. We did neither last night for 4 quarters.
Vossy's presser will be interesting. I'm sure it will be measured but inside he will be seething, upset with himself, his assistants, his players, just an awful performance.
Thats his first presser I was a little disappointed with, I suppose it mirrored our night. To suggest he was pleased with aspects seemed forced and contrived. He didn't need to smash his blokes publicly but to suggest there were areas he was pleased with was a stretch.
Let's talk about injuries. Each and every year we play at a disadvantage, 10-15 blokes unavailable seems the norm. Decisions need to be made, a player who is a gun but isn't available is useless. Our fitness guru has seen no improvement in speed or injury rates. Fitness and injury management need a clean out. Players like Williams, Marchbank, Cunningham etc we need to play or move on. We can't be successful playing with a smaller list than the competition.
---------Will be fascinated to see what the coaches do with this. There are so many lessons, I can't imagine where they'll start. Lesson 1...... 118 🫣
Well L.N - while watching the game last night from top level Adelaide Oval I thought the Lesson 1 should be "Pick up your man" (And then beat him to the ball!)
Ab
The level of disappointment in a performance is often reflective of the expectations going into the game.
I expected it to be a tough task, so I’m probably a little less disappointed than some. Even so, that was horrendous.
The problem is that because we’re the first game of the round we’ll be under the microscope for longer. What we need is for a team like St Kilda to crash and take the focus off.
As it is…There are total meltdowns across Carlton social media forums and facebook pages. The folks are angry. Comments have been turned off. The ‘kumbaya’ crowd are out denouncing those who are not ‘real’ supporters because they’re being a bit (rightly so) critical. It’d be funny if it wasn’t so tragic.
In the cold light of day that was a real wake-up call.
An aberration?
We’ll see!
The post-mortems will last a few days (we tend to discuss the losses in a bit more depth than the wins).
So a couple of points…
Could it be that the much-maligned Mitch McGovern is actually an essential component of success for this side.
He was missing as North piled on goals at the end of that game and missing again as Adelaide put the cleaners through us last night. It’s hard to know how much advance warning we had for that ‘out’ but a defence that was rock solid a few weeks ago looks very shaky. Sure, their midfield superiority puts the defence under pressure, but McGovern is an important part of the structure and when he’s missing it throws an extra burden on our other tall defenders. With Docherty also out, it made a huge difference to our ability to resist, and Adelaide took full advantage. The problem is that McGovern is a bit brittle, and an extended period without injury is probably wishful thinking.
I get the argument Kruddler is making about Silvagni and the ruck situation. It’s a bit of a blancing issue…a robbing Peter to pay Paul. The issue is that rucking will take its toll and while we gain in some areas we perhaps lose a degree of effectiveness with Jack in other roles. (He was playing in defence and saved a goal at one stage last night). Rucking also wears him down as his finish to 2022 showed. It’s not sustainable. Pittonet is struggling to stay on the field. TDK is a mile off reaching the potential we suspect he might have, and any long-term contract on big money would be a huge mistake. Sign him on a two-year deal, or let another club make that mistake.
So, the rucking situation is a worry.
Just to shoot a few Bambis.
-Cripps has been going OK but just seems to have lost a bit of the explosiveness he had last year. Doesn’t seem as quick, and that may correspond to a niggly injury of some sort.
-We know how awesome Charlie can be, but he’ll never quite be the best version of himself with some of his second efforts. Often if he loses that initial contest his backup is not that intense.
-Harry is a bit of a panic merchant and makes some dumb decisions (and executes poorly) in rushed situations.
-Saad is brilliant, the least of our worries, but his tackles don’t always stick, and players have got through him a couple of times in recent weeks.
Apart from that…the small forwards are ‘almost’ players, flashing in and out of then game. Motlop could be very dangerous if he just tidies it up a bit. That will come with game time.
The mids just need to find some consistency and that’s difficult with the injury situation. The group need a few games together. I suspect Hewett’s hand injury was much worse than first reported and he may still be struggling a bit with that. Walsh will be better with games under his belt.
But the reality is that most of the above-mentioned players are our strength. There are a few players on the fringe who just aren’t good enough and when given the opportunity don’t measure up. If the team is going well we can probably carry and disguise those players. When things are going poorly, like last night, those deficiencies stand out.
So, in summary.
Forget that performance,
Get out of Adelaide if you’ve gone there for the game.
Don’t watch the footy shows this week…
and reset.
Let's talk about injuries. Each and every year we play at a disadvantage, 10-15 blokes unavailable seems the norm. Decisions need to be made, a player who is a gun but isn't available is useless. Our fitness guru has seen no improvement in speed or injury rates. Fitness and injury management need a clean out. Players like Williams, Marchbank, Cunningham etc we need to play or move on. We can't be successful playing with a smaller list than the competition.
We had very close to our best side on the park last night. Gov was an unfortunate late out, Doc prior to that was a blow. The rest on the injury list are not important to our fortunes.
Nice. Still too nice. Where's the Voss hardness, ruthless determination & take no prisoners? (The Croweaters showed us how these things are done).
For the 1st 4 weeks we played reasonable sides in reasonable form and struggled. As soon as we played a side, with finals like heat, in good form with everything to play for, we went to water. Sound familiar? Same old, same old. A brittle side, especially above the shoulders... more, nice.
Selection table conservatism. Giving chances to blokes based on reputation or 'liked' around the club.
Is Crippa nursing an injury? I almost hope so as that would explain a lot. His leadership, along with other leaders, was found wanting last night... when desperately needed. When your best mids are a veteran and a bloke who hasn't played for 6 months, you're in strife. Hewett and Kennedy are not in good form, Crippa hot and cold.
We cannot bury sides, but we can be buried. We began last night uncommitted and seemed dreadfully ill-prepared, somewhat similar to how we meekly surrendered a big lead last week. No killer instinct, no ruthlessness, just conditional effort... more, nice.
The only thing we succeeded in doing last night was embarrassing our brand, our club, our members and supporters. Many members and supporters would be feeling embarrassed today, even ashamed.
A confidence crushing night for sure.
@ Lods Great summary mate. Just on Doc and Gov, they are very important as they read the incoming ball so well and they intercept more often than not. On a night like last night, they would have been worth there weight in gold. BUT (there is always a BUT), given our history with injury to key players, by now we should have had oodles of practice at having to have a "plan B and C in the event of...". Last night we seemed to have 23 blokes rattled. Weiters and Young did far to much man watching which had them one or two steps behind at every entry. Now I know the ball came in hot and clean all night but at some point, they had to adjust and say "stuff my man, I'm gonna read the incoming ball and back myself to go win it". Their defenders were doing that very thing, backing themselves and even taking pack marks when we bombed it in. FFS Young and Weiters have been doing it in every previous game. Whether Gov and Doc give them the confidence to do it I dont know but last night they went into their shells. Of course it was going to be a hard match and Adelaide set themselves for it, but so should have we and I expected nothing less than a close, tough, 4 quarter contest, not that hot mess we dished up.
So yep I agree, dont read the papers, dont watch any footy shows because they will be scathing. The response will be very interesting.
The only thing we succeeded in doing last night was embarrassing our brand, our club, our members and supporters. Many members and supporters would be feeling embarrassed today, even ashamed.
Bravo Signor Baggers, that's exactly how I feel and felt from literally the opening 5 minutes.
I couldn't even watch it. It was like a nightmare come true.
Hopefully the club can actually learn something from our defeat, as we were beaten in the coach's box as well as on the field.
I couldn't even watch it. It was like a nightmare come true.
Hopefully the club can actually learn something from our defeat, as we were beaten in the coach's box as well as on the field.
Crash it was a dead set repeat of the last encounter so we may have learnt something from that one but we didnt do anything to stop it being repeated. The Adelaide coaches could be seen smiling and laughing in their box, I'm sure it was because they happy with their blokes but I am also sure they were laughing at us and how silly and second rate they made us look.
The level of disappointment in a performance is often reflective of the expectations going into the game.
I expected it to be a tough task, so I’m probably a little less disappointed than some. Even so, that was horrendous.
The problem is that because we’re the first game of the round we’ll be under the microscope for longer. What we need is for a team like St Kilda to crash and take the focus off.
As it is…There are total meltdowns across Carlton social media forums and facebook pages. The folks are angry. Comments have been turned off. The ‘kumbaya’ crowd are out denouncing those who are not ‘real’ supporters because they’re being a bit (rightly so) critical. It’d be funny if it wasn’t so tragic.
In the cold light of day that was a real wake-up call.
An aberration?
We’ll see!
The post-mortems will last a few days (we tend to discuss the losses in a bit more depth than the wins).
So a couple of points…
Could it be that the much-maligned Mitch McGovern is actually an essential component of success for this side.
He was missing as North piled on goals at the end of that game and missing again as Adelaide put the cleaners through us last night. It’s hard to know how much advance warning we had for that ‘out’ but a defence that was rock solid a few weeks ago looks very shaky. Sure, their midfield superiority puts the defence under pressure, but McGovern is an important part of the structure and when he’s missing it throws an extra burden on our other tall defenders. With Docherty also out, it made a huge difference to our ability to resist, and Adelaide took full advantage. The problem is that McGovern is a bit brittle, and an extended period without injury is probably wishful thinking.
I get the argument Kruddler is making about Silvagni and the ruck situation. It’s a bit of a blancing issue…a robbing Peter to pay Paul. The issue is that rucking will take its toll and while we gain in some areas we perhaps lose a degree of effectiveness with Jack in other roles. (He was playing in defence and saved a goal at one stage last night). Rucking also wears him down as his finish to 2022 showed. It’s not sustainable. Pittonet is struggling to stay on the field. TDK is a mile off reaching the potential we suspect he might have, and any long-term contract on big money would be a huge mistake. Sign him on a two-year, deal or let another club make that mistake.
So, the rucking situation is a worry.
Just to shoot a few Bambis.
-Cripps has been going OK but just seems to have lost a bit of the explosiveness he had last year. Doesn’t seem as quick, and that may correspond to a niggly injury of some sort.
-We know how awesome Charlie can be, but he’ll never quite be the best version of himself with some of his second efforts. Often if he loses that initial contest his backup is not that intense.
-Harry is a bit of a panic merchant and makes some dumb decisions (and executes poorly) in rushed situations.
-Saad is brilliant, the least of our worries, but his tackles don’t always stick, and players have got through him a couple of times in recent weeks.
Apart from that…the small forwards are ‘almost’ players, flashing in and out of then game. Motlop could be very dangerous if he just tidies it up a bit. That will come with game time.
The mids just need to find some consistency and that’s difficult with the injury situation. The group need a few games together. I suspect Hewett’s hand injury was much worse than first reported and he may still be struggling a bit with that. Walsh will be better with games under his belt.
But the reality is that most of the above-mentioned players are our strength. There are a few players on the fringe who just aren’t good enough and when given the opportunity don’t measure up. If the team is going well we can probably carry and disguise those players. When things are going poorly, like last night, those deficiencies stand out.
So, in summary.
Forget that performance,
Get out of Adelaide if you’ve gone there for the game.
Don’t watch the footy shows this week…
and reset.
Saw it coming and tipped Adelaide. Helped my tipping immensely.
After following Carlton for 60 years you get an idea when they aren't going to turn up to play. No-one does "not turning up to play" better than Carlton, even in premiership years. We had 2 worse losses than last night in 1995. As long as they break last night down, go over what was wrong, then just focus on next week. It is the first loss. It'd not about the loss, it's about the rebound and what we learnt. We can get overworked up about one loss in a 23 game season. Stinkers will happen at near all sides. Geelong was 5-4 after 9 rounds last year.
I said it and predicted it that we needed to come with the right mindset.
Great reading from all comments made, ALL valid.
My worst gripe about last night watching at the game was how easily they moved the ball.
Continually we manned space, set up zones and so it meant our players were in no mans land ALL the time. Hence continually chasing.
I understand the idea but if it's not working early in the game CHANGE it.
Why not go MAN on MAN for a period, make them earn their possessions not waltz coast to coast.
The other thing I noticed was we had two players going for the man with the ball and he just passed it to a free player. Frustrating.
Delivery to the forward line... is it the delivery or the forwards ability to lead?
Umpiring?????????????? the amount of time Heartbreak Harry or Charles got illegally impeded was ^&%^&$$.
Voss should be a Hardwick and say something about this.
Can't wait to see us next week- wonder if we'll have learned anything or been motivated to make any improvements??
I'd be interested in knowing how much of a difference Darren Burgess has made to the Crows. They came out with the pedal to the metal, and there they remained for the whole game IMO.
I, too, tipped against us, but only by 2 points! Not 10 goals ffs.
Thankfully we were out and missed the game, excited to potentially watch the replay today. Obviously won’t bother with that.
Haven’t been convinced of our cohesiveness in the preceding games. We were lucky to beat GWS coz we tuned out but then got a fright and just squeaked it out. North smashed us at times, then we turned it on but again let go a sizeable lead to limp to the end.
What I see is still a big reliance on the ONE that pulls us up, H against Geelong in the end taking those important marks when we nearly crap ourselves again, Cripps 3rd quarter against Geelong and GWS, Cerra against North. Where is our team desire to win and kill the opposition? It’s just not there.
Sick of the injuries too, every year same old.
Lods, McGovern is probably an essential component for our success, and straight away there is a major problem.
How can we build a reliable defence which includes a player who is more likely than not to be injured for a major part of the season?
For how many years have we wasted a spot on our list because we believe Marchbank, when fit, is an essential player?
While we have Martin, Williams, Cuningham and half a dozen players barely at AFL level clogging up our list we will remain a mediocre, middle of the road side.
Let's talk about injuries. Each and every year we play at a disadvantage, 10-15 blokes unavailable seems the norm. Decisions need to be made, a player who is a gun but isn't available is useless. Our fitness guru has seen no improvement in speed or injury rates. Fitness and injury management need a clean out. Players like Williams, Marchbank, Cunningham etc we need to play or move on. We can't be successful playing with a smaller list than the competition.
You’re correct, Charlie and Doc can go empty their lockers…
Defence was all over the place.
Midfield had little cohesion in clearances and the lads looked off their feet.
Three games with 6 day breaks two of them being interstate.
3 wins
1 draw
1 loss
After five rounds is a solid start but crucial our mids to build cohesion next 10 weeks
Saw it coming and tipped Adelaide. Helped my tipping immensely.
After following Carlton for 60 years you get an idea when they aren't going to turn up to play. No-one does "not turning up to play" better than Carlton, even in premiership years. We had 2 worse losses than last night in 1995. As long as they break last night down, go over what was wrong, then just focus on next week. It is the first loss. It'd not about the loss, it's about the rebound and what we learnt. We can get overworked up about one loss in a 23 game season. Stinkers will happen at near all sides. Geelong was 5-4 after 9 rounds last year.
The only difference, LAJ, was that in 1995 all games prior to those two hidings (against the Fluffy Ducks and the Aints) were very impressive wins, even dished out a few hidings. Then followed up with a 102 pt drubbing of the Dawks after the 2 losses.
"Saw it coming", "Didn't turn up", "The loss we had to have", what a load of crape!
There’s also the question of whether our 2 losses in 1995 to Sydney and St Kilda were a result of Carlton being raging favourites against bottom teams, allowing the boys to back against themselves to fund the end-of-year footy trip. Backing the opposition to win by over 39 would have attracted juicy odds.
History Lesson
2017 Richmond Premiers.
Won 15 games but lost 7
Round 6 Richmond 10:4 vs Adelaide 21:14
Round 16 Richmond 10:11 vs St Kilda 21:12
Perspective after 5 rounds.
We have given back the win we had over Geelong. No credits left we now must win the games we are expected to win. Will be a tight finals race this year I think
Lods, McGovern is probably an essential component for our success, and straight away there is a major problem.
How can we build a reliable defence which includes a player who is more likely than not to be injured for a major part of the season?
For how many years have we wasted a spot on our list because we believe Marchbank, when fit, is an essential player?
While we have Martin, Williams, Cuningham and half a dozen players barely at AFL level clogging up our list we will remain a mediocre, middle of the road side.
Nailed it. Couldnt agree more
Where is our team desire to win and kill the opposition? It’s just not there.
Sick of the injuries too, every year same old.
On these two points, one may be a cause of the other.
We lack the killer instinct, we look glad to be there at times, not like we belong at all, when the heat is on we become victims and victims are always the ones who get hurt.
Until we learn to inflict some pain, we will continue to suffer it!
There is no doubt we got the shortest of short straws for the Gather Round.....
Adelaide, on the other hand get an extra home game (Port Adelaide too).
To make the weekend totally fair, those two should have played each other.
To make the weekend totally fair, those two should have played each other.
Of course the AFL is all about fairness over profit, ..........not, so they have gone for 2 x Sell Out Crowds over one blockbuster!
Not sure the AFL had even planned our meek surrender, I think they might have preferred a stirring Crows win over a steamroll!
That was as appalling an effort I have watched for a long time. I haven't watched Voss' press conference but I understand he made some comment about not turning up to play. I have argued a long time that Carlton's lack of success has not been about the quality of the players, coaches, football department, the CEO, administration or even the Board, though it would be good if they wood just get out of the way sometimes, I believe that the problem at Carlton is all about the Club Culture. Elliot and his cronies absolutely destroyed our winning culture and the Club has been unable to re-find it. Winners win because they win, losers lose because they lose. The Club is the most comfortable and rewarding environment for any player to achieve mediocracy. We sack coaches, change administrations and seek success from outsiders while taking no responsibility and showing no leadership from within. I think the Club was pretty comfortable finishing ninth last season. We had all summer to dwell on how unlucky we were and how we were ready to take the next step. As I have said, I don't think we missed out on the top eight last season, I think we missed out on the top four.
Last night the team lacked pace, lacked skills, lacked endeavor, lacked leadership, lacked fitness, didn't play as a team, didn't run out the quarters and didn't turn up. Picking and choosing when they are going to play and have a go has been a problem at the Club since the late nineties. This is what I am referring to when I say the problem is culture. The players and coaches keep saying what an honour it is to play in front of the large and passionate Carlton member and supporter base but they regularly treat us with disrespect and contempt by simply not being bothered or prepared to have a go.
When was the last time a Carlton team went on a run and won a large number of games in a row and set the competition alight. How often do we paly exhilarating games of football. Setanta and his little helpers, Geelong in 2011, the second half against Brisbane when Teague took over, the comeback against the Bulldogs, the win against the Dockers when Murphy kicked the winning goal. That is five games in fifteen years. And it is not about winning. We lost that game against the Bulldogs but the crowd was roaring. So here we are again, another season and the same old rubbish. We have the players, we have the coaches, we have the administration but it is still the same old Carlton. Time to sack the Coach and change the Board. That always works.
One thing we do need is more pace in the mid-field. The only two players we have who fit this criteria are Dow and Fisher. It is interesting that the only time this season our mid-field has been effective was when Fisher was up their.
That was as appalling an effort I have watched for a long time. I haven't watched Voss' press conference but I understand he made some comment about not turning up to play. I have argued a long time that Carlton's lack of success has not been about the quality of the players, coaches, football department, the CEO, administration or even the Board, though it would be good if they wood just get out of the way sometimes, I believe that the problem at Carlton is all about the Club Culture. Elliot and his cronies absolutely destroyed our winning culture and the Club has been unable to re-find it. Winners win because they win, losers lose because they lose. The Club is the most comfortable and rewarding environment for any player to achieve mediocracy. We sack coaches, change administrations and seek success from outsiders while taking no responsibility and showing no leadership from within. I think the Club was pretty comfortable finishing ninth last season. We had all summer to dwell on how unlucky we were and how we were ready to take the next step. As I have said, I don't think we missed out on the top eight last season, I think we missed out on the top four.
Last night the team lacked pace, lacked skills, lacked endeavor, lacked leadership, lacked fitness, didn't play as a team, didn't run out the quarters and didn't turn up. Picking and choosing when they are going to play and have a go has been a problem at the Club since the late nineties. This is what I am referring to when I say the problem is culture. The players and coaches keep saying what an honour it is to play in front of the large and passionate Carlton member and supporter base but they regularly treat us with disrespect and contempt by simply not being bothered or prepared to have a go.
When was the last time a Carlton team went on a run and won a large number of games in a row and set the competition alight. How often do we paly exhilarating games of football. Setanta and his little helpers, Geelong in 2011, the second half against Brisbane when Teague took over, the comeback against the Bulldogs, the win against the Dockers when Murphy kicked the winning goal. That is five games in fifteen years. And it is not about winning. We lost that game against the Bulldogs but the crowd was roaring. So here we are again, another season and the same old rubbish. We have the players, we have the coaches, we have the administration but it is still the same old Carlton. Time to sack the Coach and change the Board. That always works.
One thing we do need is more pace in the mid-field. The only two players we have who fit this criteria are Dow and Fisher. It is interesting that the only time this season our mid-field has been effective was when Fisher was up their.
PICKING AND CHOOSING >:( sums it up and wraps it up in a nice little bow.
PS Nice post! :)
I heard somewhere today the Cows had 10 players that had played under 50 games.
Uummm, does that mean we are looking at a rebuild already?
Look at the way they played!
We have young fellas in the wings. .....don't we?
I heard somewhere today the Cows had 10 players that had played under 50 games.
Uummm, does that mean we are looking at a rebuild already?
Look at the way they played!
We have young fellas in the wings. .....don't we?
Commentary during the pre-game referenced 10 of 22 round 1 draft picks. Not sure about under 50 games though.
Looked tired and flat need a 10 day break
But need some changes as TDK can't handle the ruck and he has Rowan Marshall next week.
Only problem I see with this. This is a normal season and our schedule is the same as the other 17 clubs.
There were two umpiring decisions that really shat me off last night.
The intentional OOB against Fisher & the 50m penalty against Kennedy were disgraceful, nothing less.
If you can watch the game again (not sure many will) pay attention to both of those calls and you will see why they were plainly wrong.
There were two umpiring decisions that really shat me off last night.
The intentional OOB against Fisher & the 50m penalty against Kennedy were disgraceful, nothing less.
If you can watch the game again (not sure many will) pay attention to both of those calls and you will see why they were plainly wrong.
Agree....Fisher got pushed in the back imho and should have got the free....
Of course when you win a game like we did vs GWS with that controversial dissent call the karma bus usually parks near your door in the following weeks and we probably got a visit last night.
The Hewett encroaching into the protected area free was also unlucky...yep he got sucked in chasing his man close to the kicker but its a stupid rule all the same.
That was as appalling an effort I have watched for a long time. I haven't watched Voss' press conference but I understand he made some comment about not turning up to play. I have argued a long time that Carlton's lack of success has not been about the quality of the players, coaches, football department, the CEO, administration or even the Board, though it would be good if they wood just get out of the way sometimes, I believe that the problem at Carlton is all about the Club Culture. Elliot and his cronies absolutely destroyed our winning culture and the Club has been unable to re-find it. Winners win because they win, losers lose because they lose. The Club is the most comfortable and rewarding environment for any player to achieve mediocracy. We sack coaches, change administrations and seek success from outsiders while taking no responsibility and showing no leadership from within. I think the Club was pretty comfortable finishing ninth last season. We had all summer to dwell on how unlucky we were and how we were ready to take the next step. As I have said, I don't think we missed out on the top eight last season, I think we missed out on the top four.
Last night the team lacked pace, lacked skills, lacked endeavor, lacked leadership, lacked fitness, didn't play as a team, didn't run out the quarters and didn't turn up. Picking and choosing when they are going to play and have a go has been a problem at the Club since the late nineties. This is what I am referring to when I say the problem is culture. The players and coaches keep saying what an honour it is to play in front of the large and passionate Carlton member and supporter base but they regularly treat us with disrespect and contempt by simply not being bothered or prepared to have a go.
When was the last time a Carlton team went on a run and won a large number of games in a row and set the competition alight. How often do we paly exhilarating games of football. Setanta and his little helpers, Geelong in 2011, the second half against Brisbane when Teague took over, the comeback against the Bulldogs, the win against the Dockers when Murphy kicked the winning goal. That is five games in fifteen years. And it is not about winning. We lost that game against the Bulldogs but the crowd was roaring. So here we are again, another season and the same old rubbish. We have the players, we have the coaches, we have the administration but it is still the same old Carlton. Time to sack the Coach and change the Board. That always works.
One thing we do need is more pace in the mid-field. The only two players we have who fit this criteria are Dow and Fisher. It is interesting that the only time this season our mid-field has been effective was when Fisher was up their.
That's a thoughtful post, Blue Moon. I saw my first Carlton game 78 years ago, so I am well acquainted with mediocrity. If I remember correctly it was about 1965/66 that club culture finally developed and lasted until it was destroyed by Elliot.
Since then bitter experience has shown that regularly changing coaches and expecting a different result doesn't work. We certainly haven't done ourselves any favours with so many dreadful draft selections made this century.
I think club culture develops naturally when a club starts to win games consistently, especially after a long period in the wilderness. I don't see this list having the ability to make that happen.
The biggest howler was right at the start of the game on the 3rd ball up when Cripps grabbed the ball and an ineffective short-range handball to Ollie Hollands saw the ball fall loose. He was then tackled from the front by Rachel’s IIRC but as Cripps turned around to go after the loose ball O’Brien joined in a gang tackle while the ball was at O’Brien’s feet and they pushed him down onto his back and lay on top of him as the ball was rolling away. How was that not holding the man? AFAIK, the tacklers’ ignorance that the ball is no longer in possession is irrelevant. That set the scene for some home ground decisions and they scored their first goal less than 30 seconds later.
There was another bizarre one where one of our players “marked” a ball but the umpire had called touched. A Crow was allowed to come in and put his shoulder into a high speed tackled straight in the back of our player. WTF, you can’t slam into someone’s back when applying a tackle.
"Saw it coming", "Didn't turn up", "The loss we had to have", what a load of crape!
what I see coming is another game where we play an opponent motivated and who will likely be coming off a tough match win or lose.
History has taught me we are about to go through two additional terrible losses.
I'm not peddling this loss we had to have crap but we'll see how they respond.
Starting the Gather Round with a huge win by Adelaide - of course it was going to be hard, of course they were going to get the majority of good calls, of course they were in the box seat to get any 50/50 call, of course it’s best for SA if Adelaide AND PA both win, and especially if they do it resoundingly so.
But FFS are we not premiership contenders? That’s what everyone’s been saying. So we should’ve
Taken all that heat and still smashed them!
Fact is, we are not near it. It sucks but we are still too reliant on Cripps to drag us along - no one else does it, no one! No one is on the field screaming and revving anyone up - it’s so depressing, because it’s just another lacklustre season. So hope I’m wrong but not seeing anything to suggest otherwise.
@ Bluemoon
Mate I feel your pain, clearly your tone is one of utter disappointment and bewilderment, I think it's safe to say we all feel the same way. BUT (yes there's always a BUT), a couple of things respectfully if I may.
1. I can't buy into, or rather I can't get my head around, the notion of "the culture has been stuffed since the nineties". There is no way in hell players like Moo and Dutchy walked in the door this year and were pulled aside by the keepers of this so called evil Carlton Culture and were indoctrinated in it. The relevance or effect of those that walked the halls of PP in the 90s is totally irrelevant to those that walk the same halls today. How many coaches, presidents, boards have we had since then? Respectfully mate its a nonsense in my opinion. I dont think culture is the cause of last nights awful performance. I said in a previous post, one cannot compare last night to our previous 3 games despite not being at our best in those three games.
2. Slow - The loss last night was abhorrent, no question. But almost virtually the same blokes we are calling slow now were flying to an 8-3 win loss and sitting in the top 4 at the bye last year. In fact, I'd argue we have improved our leg speed with Moo and Dutchy. As I said in earlier post, space through workrate and systems/positioning creates time and "speed". Thats what we aren't doing at the moment IMO.
As I said, I'm as gutted as anyone and I am sure our players, coaches and staff are also. Let's all take a chill pill and see what the the response is next week. If we bounce back strongly, that's a true indication of character and culture today.
what I see coming is another game where we play an opponent motivated and who will likely be coming off a tough match win or lose.
History has taught me we are about to go through two additional terrible losses.
I'm not peddling this loss we had to have crap but we'll see how they respond.
With the utmost respect brother, history has absolutely zero to do with we do next week or the week after that.
If you can watch the game again (not sure many will)
Mate I would rather poke myself in the eyes with hot sticks.
We are going to have poor games from time to time - but the team looked out of form and tired.
I'm not especially worried about things - there is alot of upside i.e., Cripps not hitting the scoreboard, midfield cohesion being the two main ones.
But the stage was firmly set against us and the lads need to rest up and respond in the best possible way next week.
With the utmost respect brother, history has absolutely zero to do with we do next week or the week after that.
all good gi2c and respectfully have a think about what we've dished up over the years vs how we have been travelling thus far this season.
We don't look fit.
Our game plan looks suspect and for want of another way to put it, we just don't look like we are up to competing week in and week out.
The wins have masked some pretty ordinary efforts and we still struggle against teams that turn up competitively.
We'll see how it goes.
The only difference, LAJ, was that in 1995 all games prior to those two hidings (against the Fluffy Ducks and the Aints) were very impressive wins, even dished out a few hidings. Then followed up with a 102 pt drubbing of the Dawks after the 2 losses.
There's no difference. They we smashings worse than last night. In other words near all good sides have bad losses during a season and most recover. Our issue on here is we just overanalyse one to death for no reason. Essentially it's like the end of the world with one loss, our only loss so far. Worry about it if we don't rebound.
Perspective isn't in the dictionary on this site. Just panic merchants. Premiership sides have been in worse positions than us at this stage. Richmond choked a few weeks in a row in mid 2017, we laughed at them really loudly. Wasn't as if they were that good previous years. They ended up resounding flag winners the same year. Geelong were 5-4 at one stage last year. Richmond's 3 flags they were back in the pack at this stage with crap losses in there. Funniliy enough, the year they did dominate, 2018, they missed the GF. Maybe this time we might get our timing right rather than being out like a shots and blowing up.
"Perspective isn't in the dictionary on this site. Just panic merchants."
Laj, what game did you watch last night? Had we won or put in a decent performance - which we were entitled to expect - then I'm sure we would be discussing the match in a positive light. Given the absolute rubbish the team dished up with not one winner on the night, why wouldn't fans let loose with their negative comments?
After all, we've been down this well worn track before.
Thats his first presser I was a little disappointed with, I suppose it mirrored our night. To suggest he was pleased with aspects seemed forced and contrived. He didn't need to smash his blokes publicly but to suggest there were areas he was pleased with was a stretch.
Just watched Harwicks post press conference. He was utterly disappointed and made no excuses for his team's poor performance. Voss on the other hand talks about positives and even cracks a joke at the end. No more Mr Nice Guy Voss. Time to show the ruthlessness you were known for on the field.
All this 'Doom and Gloom'. The reality is we haven't played well for the first 5 games and have lost one game. I said to the boss on wed night when I seen the side we will get rolled. After following the Baggers for 63 years every time we look like having our best team in it happens. Go figure.
A couple of POSITIVES - Cowan, Hollands and Newys form.
All this talk of big bodies and getting smashed by the Crows, I remind all that we beat the reining premiers two weeks ago and they are not small. When you get smashed in the contest and get pushed off the ball it always comes down to the size of our players. We are not small; we are just not as quick as we need to be. Look at the Daicos Bros, Pendles and Sidebottom, they are not monsters, they are smart. Having Sammy back will help. Our structure was stuffed on Thu night when Gov pulled out and Pitt was subbed. No Doc also hurts. Don't blame our backline blame the lazy midfielders.
Sure, we have some weaknesses on the list and this will be addressed at the end of the year. We have to get a quality Ruckman and we need some more speed around the ball. TDK and SOS are not the answer in the ruck.
We cannot keep players on the list who are continually injured. There is bad luck and there is Martin and co. Start cleaning out your lockers Martin, Cunners and Marchy. Need to give Cincotto and Dow a few games to prove themselves.
I expect a complete turnaround against the Aints next Sunday. Hopefully Gov and Pitt will be OK.
All this 'Doom and Gloom'. The reality is we haven't played well for the first 5 games and have lost one game. I said to the boss on wed night when I seen the side we will get rolled. After following the Baggers for 63 years every time we look like having our best team in it happens. Go figure.
A couple of POSITIVES - Cowan, Hollands and Newys form.
All this talk of big bodies and getting smashed by the Crows, I remind all that we beat the reining premiers two weeks ago and they are not small. When you get smashed in the contest and get pushed off the ball it always comes down to the size of our players. We are not small; we are just not as quick as we need to be. Look at the Daicos Bros, Pendles and Sidebottom, they are not monsters, they are smart. Having Sammy back will help. Our structure was stuffed on Thu night when Gov pulled out and Pitt was subbed. No Doc also hurts. Don't blame our backline blame the lazy midfielders.
Sure, we have some weaknesses on the list and this will be addressed at the end of the year. We have to get a quality Ruckman and we need some more speed around the ball. TDK and SOS are not the answer in the ruck.
We cannot keep players on the list who are continually injured. There is bad luck and there is Martin and co. Start cleaning out your lockers Martin, Cunners and Marchy. Need to give Cincotto and Dow a few games to prove themselves.
I expect a complete turnaround against the Aints next Sunday. Hopefully Gov and Pitt will be OK.
The thread on 'strengths and weaknesses' was supposed to be more about a whole series of 'strengths and weaknesses' folks are seeing after round 5
It'll probably be completely different by the bye.
The focus on 'big bodies' was probably my fault for picking that 'theme' as the opener.
It's just one aspect of many, and it's not necessarily about size, it's more about strength, and how you use it.
You've identified another aspect in respect of speed.... both to and from the contest.
Others will point to the slow start and question whether we came with the right mindset.
Then there are the more difficult to identify aspects....like players playing injured, or how structures are working, and how the absence of one or two players has a flow on effect as others need to move to pick up the slack.
We all give different weight to different aspects which means we rarely all agree on detailed player and team performance, but rather concentrate on the overall picture.
There are multiple reasons for the performance on Thursday.
In some respects it was a bit of a perfect storm of everthing going pear shaped in that first quarter.
The task for the coaching group is a challenge.
Getting them up for the Saints game will come with the advantage that the players will be under no illusions that the job won't be one they can just take for granted.
They'll be a little embarrased, and hopefully keen to make amends.
If not, that will also tell a story.
Just watched Harwicks post press conference. He was utterly disappointed and made no excuses for his team's poor performance. Voss on the other hand talks about positives and even cracks a joke at the end. No more Mr Nice Guy Voss. Time to show the ruthlessness you were known for on the field.
Richmond like I said start of the season are over rated and not a top team like everyone thinks...Taranto and Hopper are poor kicking overhyped mids and the Tigers have done their dough on those two and are going to pay with some tough seasons ahead.
We should have smashed them in round 1 and allowing them to draw with us was disappointing, cant see Hardwick staying and I wouldnt be surprised if he lands at Port Adelaide sooner than later when they flick Hinkley.
Like us they have a few injuries.
Like us they have a few injuries.
They do but they dont have much depth and their kids coming through are not at the same level as in the past.
Reiwoldt, Cotchin and Dusty are cooked and Lynch isnt durable anymore......Bolton cops the heavy tag each week and there isnt much left to win them games vs decent opposition.
They do but they dont have much depth and their kids coming through are not at the same level as in the past.
Reiwoldt, Cotchin and Dusty are cooked and Lynch isnt durable anymore......Bolton cops the heavy tag each week and there isnt much left to win them games vs decent opposition.
Bolton looked a touch exasperated and was getting snitchy from what I saw of the game, but I'd had a couple of wines and was drifting in and out of full consciousness.
Bolton looked a touch exasperated and was getting snitchy from what I saw of the game, but I'd had a couple of wines and was drifting in and out of full consciousness.
Cookie, Great player with all the skills but thats also dragging more heat on him now with the other Tiger stars fading and he is going to be baited and knocked around each week. He is expected to kick goals and be a midfield star and thats going to wear him down when other teams have a crack at him physically.
Bolton looked a touch exasperated and was getting snitchy from what I saw of the game, but I'd had a couple of wines and was drifting in and out of full consciousness.
Pickett is dirty little mongrel, can't stand the prick.
SOS fined by the MRO for tripping.
SOS fined by the MRO for tripping.
CFC fined by the MRO for not turning up at the Adelade Oval
So, I have a mate in Adelaide so decided to make the trip (by car) catch up with him see the boys and experience the hype of the gather round concept. My mate managed to score some tickets for a corporate box, SWEET! Weather was cr@p on the drive over but as soon as I got over Mt Lofty it cleared to a sunny day. All the signs were good and I started to feel optimistic.
Then the game started
Had to be one of the most disappointing efforts for quiet some time.
Got back tonight, the only positive from the game - First time I haven't lost my voice at a Carlton game in 2 years
Didn't think we have been playing that well since round 1 but never expected that sort of capitulation (bar, maybe that little period in the 2nd and 3rd)
I'm very, very worried about the next game against the Aints
I wonder if our so-so efforts for the year papered over cracks... which we ignored... which we put a favourable spin on... sound familiar?
Other non Carlton mates who watched the game ALL said the umpiring was very bias towards the Cows.
I agree whole heartedly. It was like there were 4 razor Ray's!
I am VERY worried about our ruck situation.
We were smashed and beaten convincingly around the ground.
Worst now Pitto is out.
Tdk does cameos around the ground but no where near enough. JSOS does the best he can but can't keep it up all year.
Against Adelaide or mids got no where near the ball and when that happens we go to water.
We need to get another ruck from the ruck shop in the mid season draft.
I watched as much of the replay as I could 🫣
I thought many of our blokes looked scared, insecure, and unsure. Go figure 🤔
Perhaps a bit reflective of the novelty of the round, and opening it in particular. Playing at a ground and against a team that has haf our number for ages. Losing some important leadership and structure may have fed the doubt. Who knows? It was a very poor performance no matter the circumstances.
Like others, I haven't been convinced by our performances thus far. That said, to have 3w 1d means we've lost no ground. Despite our on field woes and injuries, we have time to regroup. Another performance like last though and the fans will get restless.
Go Blues
I wonder if our so-so efforts for the year papered over cracks... which we ignored... which we put a favourable spin on... sound familiar?
Baggers we were 8-3 at the bye last year, were labelled fast and brutal for our toughness. Whats changed? I can answer it if you want.
Baggers we were 8-3 at the bye last year, were labelled fast and brutal for our toughness. Whats changed? I can answer it if you want.
Do tell...
Baggers we were 8-3 at the bye last year, were labelled fast and brutal for our toughness. Whats changed? I can answer it if you want.
The brutal bit was our big mids according to Hardwick......Hewett, Kennedy and Cripps......whats changed? , Hewett looks like he is playing with his hand still injured and was rushed back too early. Kennedy got injured again and looked short of a gallop and when Cripps has a down game we really struggle especially when his opponent is someone decent and spends all game on their own doing what they like.
You add Pittonet injured and TDK down on form and its our main attack weapon the midfield that let us down vs the Crows.
Pace...we played a fast brand when on song rather than having a lot of individual leg speed, players hit targets, run to position well
and you get a good linkup to Charlie and Harry.
Do tell...
Nothing has changed, form and workmate is down.
Nothing has changed, form and workmate is down.
Ah, got it. I thought I'd missed something that changed 🤪
Geez wouldn't it be good to have some stability in the middle?
The brutal bit was our big mids according to Hardwick......Hewett, Kennedy and Cripps......whats changed? , Hewett looks like he is playing with his hand still injured and was rushed back too early. Kennedy got injured again and looked short of a gallop and when Cripps has a down game we really struggle especially when his opponent is someone decent and spends all game on their own doing what they like.
You add Pittonet injured and TDK down on form and its our main attack weapon the midfield that let us down vs the Crows.
Pace...we played a fast brand when on song rather than having a lot of individual leg speed, players hit targets, run to position well
and you get a good linkup to Charlie and Harry.
Exaclty, we're not slower or less hard, we just aren't doing fundamentals right, down on confidence and form and played some tough opposition. Doc AND Gov out hurt structure alot, didnt do very well at the selection table either. As I said, just a horrible performance right across the board.
Exaclty, we're not slower or less hard, we just aren't doing fundamentals right, down on confidence and form and played some tough opposition. Doc AND Gov out hurt structure alot, didnt do very well at the selection table either. As I said, just a horrible performance right across the board.
How bloody often does this comment rear it's ugly head??????
Baggers we were 8-3 at the bye last year, were labelled fast and brutal for our toughness. Whats changed? I can answer it if you want.
Couldn't agree more... but then, after the bye, not so much. We started this year much like we finished last year with the exception -- until Thursday night -- we were winning - just.
Love to know what you believe the reasons are, old son. Personally, I see injuries, inconsistency in games and out of form or just not up to it blokes taking the field. Our safe and conservative approach at the selection table also contributes to the issues.
Couldn't agree more... but then, after the bye, not so much. We started this year much like we finished last year with the exception -- until Thursday night -- we were winning - just.
Love to know what you believe the reasons are, old son. Personally, I see injuries, inconsistency in games and out of form or just not up to it blokes taking the field. Our safe and conservative approach at the selection table also contributes to the issues.
Baggers I can't pin point any one thing, there are multiple factors at play here and the ones you mention are certainly some.
Injuries: There are some on our injury list that just aren't worth worrying about or factoring in simply because they are never a factor because they never ever seem to play. Doc and Gov out hurt us for sure, the selection committee has a lot to answer for with respect to the replacements bought in. I refuse to single out players from Thursday night's catastrophe but I will say Kemp, Cincotta and one of Dow/Fogarty should have played. In other words, I dont think the correct replacements played. Would they have made a difference on Thurs? No one knows really but we would have known more today. I didn't like the idea of rotating George or Cerra to the half backline when you have other replacements and those 2 could have remained at the coalface where they belong. Where did we get smashed the most on Thurs? At the coal face especially in the first qtr.
I do think there is an element of pacing themselves. What I mean by that is the our first half of the year last year was "all in", pedal to the metal to the bye. After that we dropped off severely, maybe because the guys looked thrashed. Perhaps, there is a concerted effort this year to better manage their loads (at training and in game) to minimise the effects of injuries.
I tend to think our game style may have been tinkered with a little and perhaps the blokes are still coming to grips with it. We are definitely not doing to the basics right, whether that be errant kicks or handballs, spilling easy marks, ineffective tackles (this one is a big problem for mine) or simply trying to be too cute (how many overhead backwards handballs did we do and mess up the other night). We also seem to be selecting the wrong options far too often, like giving off to say a left footer who only has his right side to work with.
All this can be fixed (I think), it's just a question of how much damage did that loss do between the ears of our players and coaches. Now I have seen us rectify structural problems and tidy up ball movement within games this year, I'd like to think (or hope) we can do it in 9 or 10 days this time. Finals aren't made or won in March, April or May.
Couldn't agree more... but then, after the bye, not so much. We started this year much like we finished last year with the exception -- until Thursday night -- we were winning - just.
Love to know what you believe the reasons are, old son. Personally, I see injuries, inconsistency in games and out of form or just not up to it blokes taking the field. Our safe and conservative approach at the selection table also contributes to the issues.
We were 4-1 with a percentage of 102.6 after 5 rounds last year.
We lost to the hapless Suns.
In regards to 2022, you have to look at the teams we did not play until beyond Rnd 10 or so, and we did not play Geelong or Melbourne until after Rnd 18!
As per momentum, I thought Motlop was monstered in the 1st q, he could’ve had 3 frees early but nada…
It was their tactic all over the ground, in the 1st quarter - hold at every stoppage, hold before the ball arrives, and see if the umpires have the guts to pay frees in front of that crowd..... we know the answer to that...
Lets wait until next week before we hit the panic button
It was their Grand Final and they played like it
First quarter was one of those run-ons a team gets when everyhting is going their way - crowd, confidence, umpires (!!!)
We were actually prettty good in the 2nd and 3rd (and got within 3 goals at one stage) - just couldnt capitalize on it... as everyone has poitned out - most of that is cause we used our winning of the footy to just bomb it on H & Charlie's heads - this NEEDS to be addressed
Last Q was always going to happen, when we spent our tickets getting back into the game (but didnt manage to get ahead on the scorebaord)
Worries were
- Not being ready for this onslaught
- Defence not standing up (Doc, Gov and an injured Saad dont help)
- Usage of the footy going forward
- Why start TDK in the first few bounces of the game??
I know we lost by 10 goals, but the home town umpiring was a factor (not 10 goals, but still a factor)..... when Cripps is held at EVERY stoppage, when blokes are tackled before they pick up the footy, when Motlop is scragged before the ball even drops to him, in front of goal, when phantom 50s occur, when H and Charlie arent allowed to run at the ball, as they are being impeded at every contest (as well as being tunelled, in the contest).... it does make a difference. the Crom defintley knew they wou;d be able to get away with a lot in the first game of gather round... and they pushed the limits and got away with it. it was like a Clarko method!!
Lets wait until next week before we hit the panic button
It was their Grand Final and they played like it
First quarter was one of those run-ons a team gets when everyhting is going their way - crowd, confidence, umpires (!!!)
We were actually prettty good in the 2nd and 3rd (and got within 3 goals at one stage) - just couldnt capitalize on it... as everyone has poitned out - most of that is cause we used our winning of the footy to just bomb it on H & Charlie's heads - this NEEDS to be addressed
Last Q was always going to happen, when we spent our tickets getting back into the game (but didnt manage to get ahead on the scorebaord)
Worries were
- Not being ready for this onslaught
- Defence not standing up (Doc, Gov and an injured Saad dont help)
- Usage of the footy going forward
- Why start TDK in the first few bounces of the game??
I know we lost by 10 goals, but the home town umpiring was a factor (not 10 goals, but still a factor)..... when Cripps is held at EVERY stoppage, when blokes are tackled before they pick up the footy, when Motlop is scragged before the ball even drops to him, in front of goal, when phantom 50s occur, when H and Charlie arent allowed to run at the ball, as they are being impeded at every contest (as well as being tunelled, in the contest).... it does make a difference. the Crom defintley knew they wou;d be able to get away with a lot in the first game of gather round... and they pushed the limits and got away with it. it was like a Clarko method!!
Great summary, Cranium.
I watched the game in the cold light of day again on Sunday and the 'rub of the green' was over the top for the Croweaters... especially disadvantaging us with how H & Charles were impeded/scragged, Mots (as you mentioned) and Crippa.
Great summary, Cranium.
I watched the game in the cold light of day again on Sunday and the 'rub of the green' was over the top for the Croweaters... especially disadvantaging us with how H & Charles were impeded/scragged, Mots (as you mentioned) and Crippa.
Did you notice how often the Crows got advantage entering F50, compared to how often we were stopped from doing the very same, it was infuriating?
It didn't make the difference, but it probably made 3 or 4 goals difference, because that advantage is normally what delivers BigH and Charlie time and space. Still don't get how Cripps has his head ripped off week after week without earning a free kick, most of the offenders are midgets who have to stand tall or jump up to reach him!
So I presume it's OK for little blokes to rip off the heads of ruckmen, except if you happen to be Durdin tackling Doedee and then it is penalised!
Crows were first in for the ball and got the frees they deserved....when you get beat by ten goals blaming umpires is looking for the easy way out. We had players who wouldnt contest and wouldnt chase and got we deserved, we played bruise free footy and they did it exactly the same way they beat us last time so our coaching box have to wear some of the blame.
The Keays/Saad matchup was a junior rookie mistake from Voss allowing that happen again and he got out coached by Stevie Nicks which is embarrassing. Same old same old with Walker and Fogarty bullying our players and intimidating them ....got a problem with Young if he is going to get pushed aside so easily and he needs to harden up and hold his ground better.
No point in panicking because we dont have much to bring into the team anyway that would make much difference. We have the talent buts its whether or not we can bring effort and sustain it vs these teams who keep persisting for 4 quarters.
The Richmond draw is looking like a poor result too because they are struggling and dont look like making the eight.
https://www.facebook.com/watch?v=199687896152141
Crows were first in for the ball and got the frees they deserved....when you get beat by ten goals blaming umpires is looking for the easy way out. We had players who wouldnt contest and wouldnt chase and got we deserved, we played bruise free footy and they did it exactly the same way they beat us last time so our coaching box have to wear some of the blame.
The Keays/Saad matchup was a junior rookie mistake from Voss allowing that happen again and he got out coached by Stevie Nicks which is embarrassing. Same old same old with Walker and Fogarty bullying our players and intimidating them ....got a problem with Young if he is going to get pushed aside so easily and he needs to harden up and hold his ground better.
No point in panicking because we dont have much to bring into the team anyway that would make much difference. We have the talent buts its whether or not we can bring effort and sustain it vs these teams who keep persisting for 4 quarters.
The Richmond draw is looking like a poor result too because they are struggling and dont look like making the eight.
Spot on me Ol Matey.
That was as bad as the Bolton & Teague years !!!
Getting spanked by 10-goals is just unacceptable on all possible levels, there is no excuse for playing like that.
Exactly. I really thought that those days where over. So frustrating.
Coaches' votes :
9 Rory Laird (ADEL)
9 Jordan Dawson (ADEL)
6 Darcy Fogarty (ADEL)
2 Taylor Walker (ADEL)
2 Chayce Jones (ADEL)
2 Tom Doedee (ADEL)
If you have a spare 30mins, have a look at this guy. To say he is a passionate and angry Bluebagger is an understatement. To say you shouldn't post stuff straight after a loss like that is often sage advice, but its hard to argue against a lot of what he says.
https://youtu.be/hwzIcVTkzN4
If you have a spare 30mins, have a look at this guy. To say he is a passionate and angry Bluebagger is an understatement. To say you shouldn't post stuff straight after a loss like that is often sage advice, but its hard to argue against a lot of what he says.
https://youtu.be/hwzIcVTkzN4
I have watched this and admit to respecting his courage in wearing his heart on his sleeve. And as you say, GTC, hard to argue with his observations and sentiments. On YouTube he and PommieInOz are must watches.
The emotive stuff rallies fans, but just like a Trumpism it can also damage clubs if it becomes too popular, because reality is it offers now substantive solutions.
While I like the the enthusiasm for our club, most of the Youtube stuff is ball watching hysteria, and a bit naivé.
Aussie Rules at AFL level is quite formulaic, like a chess game, clubs have reflex moves that unroll if A does B we do C, and often the "obvious" solution to our problems aren't really solutions at all!
I can't say we ever had a better coaching panel in the last 20 years than we have right now, I have to trust them to find their way through the mire. It's a puzzle that has to be solved whenever a club builds expectation, because with expectation comes opposition focus.
At the weekend I watched a VAFA game, thank-you AFL for buggering off and giving me a reason to get to grass roots footy. I saw a team win the the bulk of the contests, outplay the opposition, and still be 8 goals down at 3/4 time, all because of one simple flaw in the game plan. At 3/4-time the coach made a move, just shifted one player, and that team stormed home to win by 9 pts in the last quarter, that is Aussie Rules, a puzzle. If that coach had panicked and started shuffling the cards, he probably would not have got the result.
Fans often emotively call for scorched earth policy but often that just sets the club and the team back!
If you have a spare 30mins, have a look at this guy. To say he is a passionate and angry Bluebagger is an understatement. To say you shouldn't post stuff straight after a loss like that is often sage advice, but its hard to argue against a lot of what he says.
https://youtu.be/hwzIcVTkzN4
He looks done, like he can't take it anymore...know the feeling.