Remember to use this thread after the game.
So how much longer to do we have to tolerate performances like this?
Our skills are deplorable
We go to water under pressure
Our players show little or no desperation when the going gets tough
How many coaches are we going to kill?
Our list is not as talented across the board as we think I reckon.
Why waste time on this virtual signalling with the effort on the Respect Game. They need to concentrate on winning football games.
Why waste time on this virtual signalling with the effort on the Respect Game. They need to concentrate on winning football games.
How about respecting supporters!
Why waste time on this virtual signalling with the effort on the Respect Game. They need to concentrate on winning football games.
Spot on!
Again I refer back to the gap between our best and our worst, its just too large. We are too inconsistent to play finals. Yes we can beat anyone but when it gets hard, we go to water. We talk about leaving too much to too few like Walsh, Cerra, Cripps, George, Doc, Saad. They were some of our worst offenders from a poor skills perspective. Thats the most difficult pill to swallow for me.
Skill execution under no pressure is deplorable.
This mob craps their pants when they are challenged. What a bunch of softcocks.
Another Friday night, another quality opponent, another opportunity to prove ourselves worthy, another failure.
At least Cerra impressed.
When you gift games to out of form players and only have two proper forwards, what do you expect?
We're just no good at the moment and I don't know if we ever will be. As a supporter the dread I feel before every game stems from consistently getting let down by these pretenders. I'm sure that the term flat track bullies will get used more than once this weekend when referring to us and deservedly so.
So how much longer to do we have to tolerate performances like this?
Our skills are deplorable
We go to water under pressure
Our players show little or no desperation when the going gets tough
How many coaches are we going to kill?
Our list is not as talented across the board as we think I reckon.
Seems we've been saying that for an eternity.
The decision making and composure, followed by shocking skill errors shows our identity.
How long did we get stuck inside d50?
Yet, we had no idea how to overcome it. Just repeated the same plays and gave it back to them.
Played maybe 1.25 quarters against a real contender and it showed. No excuses Vossy.
Very disappointed for our milestone men.
At least Cerra impressed.
As did his Docker buddy.
Promise everything, deliver nothing.
Until the sides wants it badly enough rather than playing for the paycheque then this is what we get. No way this side should miss finals but we will.
Promise everything, deliver nothing.
Until the sides wants it badly enough rather than playing for the paycheque then this is what we get. No way this side should miss finals but we will.
We can't lose respectfully, we aren't playing finals with performances like that happening far too often. Our skill level is deplorable. The minute we have pressure put on us and we have to pick off a semi difficult option, we turn it over and get crucified. And its not the Honeys, the Durdins, the Motlops, the Hollands of the world, its Cripps, Saad, Doc, Weiters, Walsh, George, Cerra, Gov, Young, these are supposedly the cream of the crop. They beat up on crap opponents and go to water when pressure comes. No more excuses, last year it was injuries, we fielded just about our best side...again and got found wanting...again. It just keeps happening. I try and remain positive and composed but you can't anymore.
When you gift games to out of form players and only have two proper forwards, what do you expect?
I expect better than that.
As did his Docker buddy.
Acres? Was a liability with the ball more often than not.
Once again, we were shown up to be frauds & charlatans.
Great first quarter, got the shakes in the second, completely obliterated in the third and then tried to impersonate Houdini in the last with an attempted escape but had way too much ground to make up.
We had a number of key players down on form or had the fumbles under the pressure the Lions applied.
We are still 4-5 players away from being a serious contender, right now, we are only going to hang around for nuisance value and fall short of the 8 yet again.
Have a look at the five opponents we have to face in the next 5-weeks - Dogs, Pies, Swans, Dees & Bombers .............. there is no way known we are going to beat any of them on what we have seen thus far this season.
Start doing the player reviews now and work out who to delist and who to trade, we are done for 2023.
Kennedy had as many inside 50s in one quarter (and a fraction) than everyone else (on both sides) had for the entire game
WTF is he doing sitting on the bench.
Walsh had plenty of ball but his disposal was pretty poor. He just didn't seem right. Normally he'd get the ball away cleanly in those tight situations but he got caught a couple of times.
Where to begin with this?
So many non-contributors, so many stupid players, so many butchers. Players down, It was a shemozzle
Backline was atrocious really. Leaked goals like never before. Weitering is rubbish at the moment. Don't know if the money thing is affecting him but he's playing terrible.
Cripps was fumbly and pretty invisible. They were all over Saad and Newman which really stopped their influence
Don't think both Motlop and Durdin should both get a game and if I had my choice it would be Durdin
Walsh's disposal was off. Can't believe it. Is it his back?
Honey, don't even start me on this bloke. If he gets a game next week I'll do a gasket.
Time for bed
I don't know...it's just a gut feeling.
But it seems to me there is something very wrong with the dynamics of the team.
I'm not sure whether it's a player/coach thing, a player/player thing or the old clique situation.
They just don't seem to be all on the same wavelength.
While we have some really talented players, many seem to play as individuals and get in each others way.
The forward line was chaotic and unfunctional again tonight.
The number of times Brisbane players got goal side of their opponents or clear in space to kick goals was diabolical
The gap bewteen our best and our 'not so good players' is quite pronounced and team selections are confusing at best.
What a friday might spectacle we put on.
- announce membership record
- milestone games for 2 highly valued players
- sell out crowd against interstate oppo
- stadium cleared out at 3q time
- record number of members gutted
- fans losing hope week by week of being competitive in 2023 despite improving health of the list
That might be a little premature but it's just how I see it atm
Go Blues
I don't know...it's just a gut feeling.
But it seems to me there is something very wrong with the dynamics of the team.
I'm not sure whether it's a player/coach thing, a player/player thing or the old clique situation.
They just don't seem to be all on the same wavelength.
While we have some really talented players, many seem to play as individuals and get in each others way.
The forward line was chaotic and unfunctional again tonight.
The number of times Brisbane players got goal side of their opponents or clear in space to kick goals was diabolical
The gap bewteen our best and our 'not so good players' is quite pronounced and team selections are confusing at best.
No, enough excuses, if they can't excuse basic skills, see ya later. If they undermining another coach, see ya later. I have had a gut full. Seriously sick of them getting talked up, drinking their bath water, then failing again.
Things aren't as bad as they seem.
We are a bit dumb at times.
Guilty of over using the ball.
Ignoring some options for no good reason and from what I can see lack strong on field leadership. This problem is the hardest. We have good leaders, but not enough generals that lift those around them.
I really like docherty on ball, but we've robbed our backline leadership to strengthen a midfield strength.
You can usually hear it at ground level. The types of players that scream themselves hoarse are just not there for us.
What a friday might spectacle we put on.
- announce membership record
- milestone games for 2 highly valued players
- sell out crowd against interstate oppo
- stadium cleared out at 3q time
- record number of members gutted
- fans losing hope week by week of being competitive in 2023 despite improving health of the list
That might be a little premature but it's just how I see it atm
Go Blues
The fans leaving before 3/4 time on masse is something I have never seen before at a Carlton game. That was one hell of a Nuffs Enuff statement if I have ever seen one. I wonder what the Board, Coaches and Players will think about that.
Things aren't as bad as they seem. No your right, they are not as bad, they are worse
We are a bit dumb at times. A bit dumb? Really? Ill we are a lot dumb
Guilty of over using the ball. Over using the ball, is that what "panicking (crapping my pants) and not knowing what to do with it" is called these days.
Ignoring some options for no good reason and from what I can see lack strong on field leadership. This problem is the hardest. We have good leaders, but not enough generals that lift those around them. Agree, yay
I really like docherty on ball, but we've robbed our backline leadership to strengthen a midfield strength. Doc like Acres was liability with the ball more often than not, sold younger team mates up the river on too many occasions.
You can usually hear it at ground level. The types of players that scream themselves hoarse are just not there for us. They are busy pointing at things, doing two things at once whilst breathing is not easy
But apart from all that, everything is sweet. I am absolutely farken filthy if you didn't notice. Sick to death of making excuses for these blokes.
But apart from all that, everything is sweet. I am absolutely farken filthy if you didn't notice. Sick to death of making excuses for these blokes.
I get it you're annoyed.
I'm not, I didn't expect less.
History has taught me not to expect more than us going to sleep for half a game.
Even last week, I said it was the most unconvincing dominant performance I've ever seen.
Brisbane ive had as my premiership favourite since they dismantled Melbourne.
We haven't been in good form all season, but I'll take what I can get. Downhill skiers is a step up from our last 8. Years.
No, enough excuses, if they can't excuse basic skills, see ya later. If they undermining another coach, see ya later. I have had a gut full. Seriously sick of them getting talked up, drinking their bath water, then failing again.
Spot on.
Bulldogs, Pies, Swans, Demons and Bombers coming next. There is a possible 4 or maybe 5 lost games coming soon. Time to start drinking.
Bulldogs, Pies, Swans, Demons and Bombers coming next. There is a possible 4 or maybe 5 lost games coming soon. Time to start drinking.
This group is mentally fragile, players get in front of the camera during the week after a loss and trot all the tripe buzz words about how they will review it, train hard and saddle up again next week. They will more than likely not win any of those games because 1. It is now plainly obvious they aren't as talented as they or anyone thinks and 2. they are mentally weak.
You can't train/coach out the skill errors we keep making. EOS.
Didn’t think Brisbane were that great we just kept giving the ball to them with the worst display of disposals I’ve seen from us for a while. From the opening minutes you could tell we were off and were flattered by the first quarter scores. I think part of the problem is our best last year and occasionally this year is good enough but very fragile. To many passengers to be a contender. If Cripps Weitering or Charlie are off the boil no one lifts to cover them. I like guys such as hollands Cowan and cincotta getting a game but they can’t yet get us home when the chips are down yet but have shown they have heart. But last night off the half back line when we got possession our players looked up with no one other than Harry making position with Andrews up his freckle ready to punch it away. No small forwards attacking at the feet or giving options. Motlop was the best of them but even though he plays like he’s a bit scared to attack it at times I still think he will find his way.
Our air of fun and confidence in each other faded last night getting it back might be harder than we think
Come Monday morning, perhaps even Sunday morning, were I Messrs Cook and Sayers, I’d have one man and one man only sitting in front of us, B Lloyd… Head of Football. And I’d be asking, “How come?”
How come little has changed? In fact, we don’t look as good as last year, so perhaps we’ve even gone backwards.
How come we still go to water when real heat is applied, resulting in dreadful inconsistency within games?
How come we continue to make baffling decision at the selection table? Example: a fella with ordinary VFL form gets senior selection then plays 5 ordinary games in the seniors (Honey) while others in the VFL with good form are ignored?
How come we have so many out of form players?
From Voss's Presser:
- Good teams give you feedback, we got some last night.
- Effort was there, its what kept us in the game.
- Execution cost us the game, costly TO's and skill errors in the def 50, against StK it was in F50.
Need to dig deeper into why the skill errors occur, to me it comes from pressure applied. Some teams handle it, we simply can't and its stopping us from achieving anything. I'd be staggered if we can improve this aspect of our game this year. Its personnel based. The sad thing is that with senior and supposed star players being the worst culprits, how the hell can that be good for the young kids. Its any wonder blokes like Dow go backwards in their development.
At least Cerra impressed.
I thought he and McGovern showed that they are up to scratch, Kennedy was also good when given the chance.
Still think the bigger problem for us is the MC, it fails to read the room! ;D
Come Monday morning, perhaps even Sunday morning, were I Messrs Cook and Sayers, I’d have one man and one man only sitting in front of us, B Lloyd… Head of Football. And I’d be asking, “How come?”
How come little has changed? In fact, we don’t look as good as last year, so perhaps we’ve even gone backwards.
How come we still go to water when real heat is applied, resulting in dreadful inconsistency within games?
How come we continue to make baffling decision at the selection table? Example: a fella with ordinary VFL form gets senior selection then plays 5 ordinary games in the seniors (Honey) while others in the VFL with good form are ignored?
How come we have so many out of form players?
one more question:
How can we be so poorly skilled under pressure that many of our 88,777 supporters at the game leave with 3 mins to go before 3/4 time?
Since 2019, Brisbane has finished 2nd, 2nd, 4th and 6th, and played off in semi finals or prelims. In the same period, we have been mid table or worse. Last night was simply a reflection of that. They are hungrier, harder, cleaner, more efficient, better structures and more talent. They are definitely the real deal, and we are still a work in progress. Much like the Sagrada Familia in Barcelona, we never seem to be quite finished. :)
I was pleased with the first and last quarters - at least the boys showed some fight and brought a little respectability to the score line. The 2nd and 3rd would have no doubt been described by my mother as "big rahbeesh", were she still around.
What Paul said. Next week is a different story.
And to those paying out on Carlton Respects, please don't. It's a worthwhile starting point for a serious issue, and had absolutely nothing to do with last night's performance.
Since 2019, Brisbane has finished 2nd, 2nd, 4th and 6th, and played off in semi finals or prelims. In the same period, we have been mid table or worse. Last night was simply a reflection of that. They are hungrier, harder, cleaner, more efficient, better structures and more talent. They are definitely the real deal, and we are still a work in progress. Much like the Sagrada Familia in Barcelona, we never seem to be quite finished. :)
I was pleased with the first and last quarters - at least the boys showed some fight and brought a little respectability to the score line. The 2nd and 3rd would have no doubt been described by my mother as "big rahbeesh", were she still around.
How do they fix basic skill errors under pressure? Thats going to take years IMO. I'm not questioning our endeavour or effort, its poor kicking, handballs and decisions that cost us games.
How do they fix basic skill errors under pressure? Thats going to take years IMO. I'm not questioning our endeavour or effort, its poor kicking, handballs and decisions that cost us games.
Yep I agree. And 1 quarter in every difficult game where we get blown away.
And to those paying out on Carlton Respects, please don't. It's a worthwhile starting point for a serious issue, and had absolutely nothing to do with last night's performance.
Not wanting to say anything about the cause but we have lost every single one of those respects games.
Not sure why, but maybe we are too respectful on game day.
Brisbane came out wanting to hurt us last night and they did.
How do they fix basic skill errors under pressure? Thats going to take years IMO. I'm not questioning our endeavour or effort, its poor kicking, handballs and decisions that cost us games.
Doing it for longer is the only way to fix it.
We've been in poor form all season. That won't continue. The wins have masked it. I reckon no more than about 8 per game have held their heads up high.
Doing it for longer is the only way to fix it.
We've been in poor form all season. That won't continue. The wins have masked it. I reckon no more than about 8 per game have held their heads up high.
Sorry mate I dont understand, what do we need to do for longer that will eradicate skill errors?
Not wanting to say anything about the cause but we have lost every single one of those respects games.
Not sure why, but maybe we are too respectful on game day.
Brisbane came out wanting to hurt us last night and they did.
We lose games because we're not good enough to win. We've lost plenty of games that have nothing to with Carlton Respects.
We are simply not consistently good enough. Our forward movement is far too predictable and any side with a half-decent back six can make our scoring dry up (Saints and Lions have both done it easily).
Stats show we had more than our share of the ball, but the second and third quarters we showed no dare and run. In fact, if Brisbane had kicked straight, we would have been 10 goals down at 3/4 time.
Very disappointing, and I feel this is a portent of yet another mid-table finish.
one more question:
How can we be so poorly skilled under pressure that many of our 88,777 supporters at the game leave with 3 mins to go before 3/4 time?
Yep. I think that's a symptom of 'going to water when real heat is applied'... dramatic decline in execution/skills and decision making. For the folks at the game to see so many fundamental errors was incredibly disheartening -- glad I wasn't there -- and they let the players know.
Sometimes I wonder if our players live too much in a 'happy bubble' and become disconnected from a warrior attitude which is required when you go into battle. In the words of Jocko Willink... when under pressure focus on two things only, prioritize (quickly) then execute (well). Our execution under heat is ordinary at best, dreadful at worst... and by dreadful, I mean I ability to give the aggott back to the opposition.
Yep. I think that's a symptom of 'going to water when real heat is applied'... dramatic decline in execution/skills and decision making. For the folks at the game to see so many fundamental errors was incredibly disheartening -- glad I wasn't there -- and they let the players know.
Sometimes I wonder if our players live too much in a 'happy bubble' and become disconnected from a warrior attitude which is required when you go into battle. In the words of Jocko Willink... when under pressure focus on two things only, prioritize (quickly) then execute (well). Our execution under heat is ordinary at best, dreadful at worst... and by dreadful, I mean I ability to give the aggott back to the opposition.
Last night the mistakes from senior players were as bad and as disappointing as I have seen. Chains of errors is the only chain we can manage at the moment. I am under no illusion that Brisbane are a top side, but I just expect better execution than that from senior players (who are supposed to help groom the kids). If I had the time and the stomach for it, I would watch the game again and catalog the errors.
1. After sitting through the Adelaide Oval Crows debacle I mentioned the old football coaches cry "pick up your man!
When CFC kick out after point score, other teams man us up and put us straight under pressure. We often allowed Brisbane to easily kick short to a player. We did have the same number of players, didn't we?
2. Witches hats when Brisbane had the ball and heading deep into their forward line. Yes our guys do the right and run down there, but then some (like Motlop) seem to be mesmerised, just stand there and don't man up.
Plenty of effort at times , but not well directed.
AB
And to those paying out on Carlton Respects, please don't. It's a worthwhile starting point for a serious issue, and had absolutely nothing to do with last night's performance.
Social issues has no place in sports imo. Defacing club colours is even worse. It's a worth while cause but there are other ways to promote the cause. Prefer if we had Charlie Blue eating raw meat. Facts on the ground is we don't win games with "respect" at the forefront of players minds and it has to be replaced by "ruthless" ASAP.
I noticed right from the start of the game the Bears were out to hurt us. They were tackling with intent to hurt and when they won the free kick they certainly told us.
When teams do this physical stuff yeah we might do a bit of push and shove back but it creates perceived pressure and the players panic because they don't want to be tackled harshly and hurt.
We are a NICE team, we have no MONGREL, no one tackles to hurt someone.
You look back to when we were successful, we had all this, Whorethorn played unsocialable, Richmond were dirty.
I'm not saying we go out there and play with high elbows but play angry, play to win, no prisoners. I'm over this nice guy stuff.
Still can't work out the umpiring, they got so many HTB yet we got hardly any. Is it the way we tackle?
Why didn't Harry get a free kick for the whack he copped to the eye. 4 Umpires? WTF were they looking at?
Harry is always being held. Cripps is always being held at stoppages. I thought the 4 ump system was brought in to have extra eyes around contests not divide the ground up into qtrs instead of thirds With each ump sticking to his lane.
The Match committee should be sacked today! Not tomorrow! How many games do we lose and then mention the MC?
We are charlatans, but I thought we did very well last night with a half a playing list made up of VFL standard players.
1. After sitting through the Adelaide Oval Crows debacle I mentioned the old football coaches cry "pick up your man!
When CFC kick out after point score, other teams man us up and put us straight under pressure. We often allowed Brisbane to easily kick short to a player. We did have the same number of players, didn't we?
2. Witches hats when Brisbane had the ball and heading deep into their forward line. Yes our guys do the right and run down there, but then some (like Motlop) seem to be mesmerised, just stand there and don't man up.
Plenty of effort at times , but not well directed.
AB
They play that F$%^ing stupid zone defence. F&^* I hate using American terms for our game.
BUT STOP MANNING UP GRASS for f&^% sake.
I noticed right from the start of the game the Bears were out to hurt us. They were tackling with intent to hurt and when they won the free kick they certainly told us.
When teams do this physical stuff yeah we might do a bit of push and shove back but it creates perceived pressure and the players panic because they don't want to be tackled harshly and hurt.
We are a NICE team, we have no MONGREL, no one tackles to hurt someone.
You look back to when we were successful, we had all this, Whorethorn played unsocialable, Richmond were dirty.
I'm not saying we go out there and play with high elbows but play angry, play to win, no prisoners. I'm over this nice guy stuff.
Still can't work out the umpiring, they got so many HTB yet we got hardly any. Is it the way we tackle?
Why didn't Harry get a free kick for the whack he copped to the eye. 4 Umpires? WTF were they looking at?
Harry is always being held. Cripps is always being held at stoppages. I thought the 4 ump system was brought in to have extra eyes around contests not divide the ground up into qtrs instead of thirds With each ump sticking to his lane.
The Match committee should be sacked today! Not tomorrow! How many games do we lose and then mention the MC?
We are charlatans, but I thought we did very well last night with a half a playing list made up of VFL standard players.
No where near angry and hungry enough.
We were getting hurt badly and there was little intent to hurt - it was like men playing against women.
Last night the mistakes from senior players were as bad and as disappointing as I have seen. Chains of errors is the only chain we can manage at the moment. I am under no illusion that Brisbane are a top side, but I just expect better execution than that from senior players (who are supposed to help groom the kids). If I had the time and the stomach for it, I would watch the game again and catalog the errors.
You'll need a lot of pen/pencils to catalogue the errors.
It is said that you play how you train. I recall vividly how hard we'd 'drill' in the military (Navy). And how you'd have your ring gear hanging out after every physical session, that's where incredible pressure was applied... soon sorted the hackers from the non-hackers but we were equipped to handle any pressure in 'combat.' The camaraderie & trust that developed created an 'us'. We hurt together and that builds something special. Above the shoulders 'drills' were every bit as demanding, until they became reflex.
I noticed right from the start of the game the Bears were out to hurt us. They were tackling with intent to hurt and when they won the free kick they certainly told us.
When teams do this physical stuff yeah we might do a bit of push and shove back but it creates perceived pressure and the players panic because they don't want to be tackled harshly and hurt.
We are a NICE team, we have no MONGREL, no one tackles to hurt someone.
You look back to when we were successful, we had all this, Whorethorn played unsocialable, Richmond were dirty.
I'm not saying we go out there and play with high elbows but play angry, play to win, no prisoners. I'm over this nice guy stuff.
Still can't work out the umpiring, they got so many HTB yet we got hardly any. Is it the way we tackle?
Why didn't Harry get a free kick for the whack he copped to the eye. 4 Umpires? WTF were they looking at?
Harry is always being held. Cripps is always being held at stoppages. I thought the 4 ump system was brought in to have extra eyes around contests not divide the ground up into qtrs instead of thirds With each ump sticking to his lane.
The Match committee should be sacked today! Not tomorrow! How many games do we lose and then mention the MC?
We are charlatans, but I thought we did very well last night with a half a playing list made up of VFL standard players.
Well said.
We obviously train 'nice.' About time that changed, a lot.
We are simply not consistently good enough. Our forward movement is far too predictable and any side with a half-decent back six can make our scoring dry up (Saints and Lions have both done it easily).
Stats show we had more than our share of the ball, but the second and third quarters we showed no dare and run. In fact, if Brisbane had kicked straight, we would have been 10 goals down at 3/4 time.
Very disappointing, and I feel this is a portent of yet another mid-table finish.
Tonyo I think our dare and run was there, we just kept giving it to blokes in Brisbane jumpers. Even the commentators said it one point, I think it was a Weiters grubber kick to a running Doc maybe? The idea was there, the kick was poor which resulted in a slight fumble then Brisbane player pouncing to apply pressure and the TO and it went straight back for a goal. Thats demoralising. I just expect better from players of that that experience.
Time for another old rebuild? ::)
No! My head (and my heart) couldn't take another rebuild.
I won't live that long anyway.
I don't want to change the coach either.
(Although the scrutiny has already started...and that has an inevitable end if things don't improve.)
The thing is that when they're 'on' you'd probably give this group a chance against any other side.
But under pressure, or if the attitude is just a little bit off there are some glaring weaknesses exposed.
We look at some of the fringe players and often wonder why they get selected over others.
There must be a reason we think.
Maybe they're under certain instructions to play a role, or their pressure is valued...we don't value their contribution, but the coaches do.
But in many cases it 'ain't workin'. Their efforts are not contributing to the result. It's particularly true of our small/medium forwards who don't impact the scoreboard.
But it's not just the fringe players.
Even our very best have 'faults' that are exposed when things aren't going well.
Saad is terrific but he is often brushed aside too easily in tackles.
Harry has his brain fades and there is an indecision that often affects his disposal especially in front of goal.
Charlie can give a great contest but his second and third efforts once the contest is lost can vary considerably.
Jack tries hard all the time, but often will have a purple patch and then not have a significant impact for large parts of the game.
Cripps is so important but can be nullified, and if he's not prominent we're in trouble.
Weitering is having an up and down kind of year...and while that may be due in part to some off-field problems, it probably has more to do with the unsettled nature and lack of support from the other defenders who are more attackers than lock-down types.
One bloke you can usually depend on for consistency of effort and excellence is Walsh.
But he was very average last night...caught in tackles and unable to release, and his disposal efficiency was around 50% (it was 50%).
It's hard to know where we sit in the scheme of things.
We're probably very much a middle of the table side, which given the top end talent, is probably very much underachieving, but the issue is that there is such a gap between our best players and our fringe players.
Too much is left to too few, and if your star players are nullified, as they were last night, the remaining players aren't good enough to pick up the slack.
Social issues has no place in sports imo. Defacing club colours is even worse. It's a worth while cause but there are other ways to promote the cause. Prefer if we had Charlie Blue eating raw meat. Facts on the ground is we don't win games with "respect" at the forefront of players minds and it has to be replaced by "ruthless" ASAP.
I get your point. But there is a place for both. Obviously a 'boundaries' issue.
Carlton Respects is a brilliant initiative and makes a difference, a real difference in imperative areas throughout the community.
However, there needs to be a clear line and understanding between training/ on-field attitude and off-field behaviour. Come game day and once we hit the grass we are far too easy to intimidate and other clubs know it. Time to become pro-active with the ruthlessness and mongrel persistence, rather than learning how to 'cope' with an opponents aggression and seeking to absorb rather than create.
Wieters and Young stay in the backline. FULL STOP.
You can't rob Peter to pay Paul by having Young ruck. Since he has started rucking his game is lacking and seems to have lost confidence.
However Kemp is looking composed.
Wieters and Young had good synergy but something is not right in the land of our backline.
JSOS plays better when just left in the fwd line but....
Just on the ruck, the mid fielders play like they are going to get the ball, so if they don't the oppo gets the ball and takes off with minimal pressure. I know it the chicken and the egg scenario but if we lose the stoppage the oppo seems to beable to get out easily. Needs to be more accountability around the contest. Just saying....
Would love a couple of Mitch Robinson types right now!
Not pretty maybe some ordinary disposals but no individual contest is ever over.
We don’t have anyone at all like that.
We are just not mentally switched on like last year. Not sure if we thought it would just happen but we don't want it bad enough. While skills can be a pressure thing they are also a concentration thing. They are a barometer on how switched on and hungry we really are. When we are hungry, like last year, our skills were so much better.
Talent wise we are good enough and deep enough. We were a couple of late chokes away from finals last year with a side crippled with injury, winning decent games with half a side. Thing is though, only the hungriest succeed in this game and we are back to not being hungry enough to succeed like we have been for many years.
1. After sitting through the Adelaide Oval Crows debacle I mentioned the old football coaches cry "pick up your man!
When CFC kick out after point score, other teams man us up and put us straight under pressure. We often allowed Brisbane to easily kick short to a player. We did have the same number of players, didn't we?
2. Witches hats when Brisbane had the ball and heading deep into their forward line. Yes our guys do the right and run down there, but then some (like Motlop) seem to be mesmerised, just stand there and don't man up.
Plenty of effort at times , but not well directed.
AB
I noted that they went man on man at our kicks more often than zone. We didn't know what to do and couldn't pin point a Carlton jumper who managed to get a meter away from his opponent. I feel like a broken record this morning.
(https://i.postimg.cc/nC2MG3Z7/CFC.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/nC2MG3Z7) (https://i.postimg.cc/rdF19Dvy/sagrada-familia-18.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/rdF19Dvy)
Carlton's rebuild going to plan ::) ... just needs time.
I get your point. But there is a place for both. Obviously a 'boundaries' issue.
Carlton Respects is a brilliant initiative and makes a difference, a real difference in imperative areas throughout the community.
However, there needs to be a clear line and understanding between training/ on-field attitude and off-field behaviour. Come game day and once we hit the grass we are far too easy to intimidate and other clubs know it. Time to become pro-active with the ruthlessness and mongrel persistence, rather than learning how to 'cope' with an opponents aggression and seeking to absorb rather than create.
We played bruise free footy last night. Hope we don't throw a game per year based on social issues as opponents smell blood when they know our history to this event and it showed again.
(https://i.postimg.cc/nC2MG3Z7/CFC.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/nC2MG3Z7) (https://i.postimg.cc/rdF19Dvy/sagrada-familia-18.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/rdF19Dvy)
Carlton's rebuild going to plan ::) ... just needs time.
They finished the Pyramids in quicker time. ::)
I'm convinced that rebuilds don't work, period. And they don't work when your culture is ingrained mediocrity and hopelessness.
Norf and the Whorks are delusional if they are going to be anything other than hopeless for years. Chuck the weegles and Freo as well You need a once in a century coach for starters, and we don't have that person.
Matthew Kennedy 26% game time (just over 30minutes)
13 disposals, 2 tackles, 1 goal, 5 inside 50s, 4 score involvements, 306 metres gained. ::)
New day and the pain isn't as severe this morning. Maybe because I've had so many years of the same stuff I'm getting a bit immune? Thanks to peeps like PaulP and 3Lions who have a positive spin on things but I've already heard the phrase "flat-track bullies" used this morning on SEN and that really cuts to the core.
Hope the magoos have a few shining lights in this morning's game.
Matthew Kennedy 26% game time (just over 30minutes)
13 disposals, 2 tackles, 1 goal, 5 inside 50s, 4 score involvements, 306 metres gained. ::)
Should be enough to secure his spot next week ..... As the SUB!
Social issues has no place in sports imo. Defacing club colours is even worse. It's a worth while cause but there are other ways to promote the cause. Prefer if we had Charlie Blue eating raw meat. Facts on the ground is we don't win games with "respect" at the forefront of players minds and it has to be replaced by "ruthless" ASAP.
Whether or not social issues have a place in sport is a separate issue.
Perhaps we should have a Carlton Caveman day, or get Bettina Arndt to organise a Carlton #mentoo day ? I guess we could say that we lost the Adelaide game because our team of "choirboys" was so enamoured with the city of Churches that they forgot to train and spent the time praying instead ? This sort of thinking belongs in the realm of astrology, like saying we lost because there was an Aquarius moon in a Taurus rising.
You, me and everyone else on here have no idea what was on the players minds. Fact is we lost the game the same way we lose all games - in general not playing 4 quarters and sloppy ball use.
I'd drop Young after that wimpy game he played last night but we have nothing to bring in apart from tall Durdin and I don't fancy him vs the Dogs talls.
Could understand why Voss yanked him off as he was pathetic with his physicality.
Our whole organization from the very top to the boot studder is not ruthless enough and don't want it enough and out list has no leadership to correct anything.
Despite all the hope and talk again we are still miles off the pace. No leadership on this list and they just take performances like that on the chin without a whimper. We are a list filled with nice guys and none have a any sort of hard ruthless edge. Our captain was smiling after the game with Lachie Neale after he had a stinker while his direct opponent comprehensively smashed him and yet he still can smile? And all those that say that means nothing are kidding themself. We are powerless to do anything to change an outcome if it's not on our terms we have too many holes in a very unbalanced list to be genuine contenders. In the third quarter when we were jammed in our D50 and couldn't get out and not one player knew WTF to do. We looked stunned and just kept turning it over. It took a soft 50 metre penalty to get us out.
We are the ultimate teasers, pretenders that melt as soon as the heat is applied. And our opposition know it!
Again like so many pre seasons out list is talked up and many including me fall for it. Then the talk stops and we see teams below us with much less fanfare leapfrog over us and teams above us continue to pull away while we just pretend it all about to turn around any minute. Reality is another season has gone down the drain and i no longer have any belief our club is ever going to amount to anything.
Whether or not social issues have a place in sport is a separate issue.
Perhaps we should have a Carlton Caveman day, or get Bettina Arndt to organise a Carlton #mentoo day ? I guess we could say that we lost the Adelaide game because our team of "choirboys" was so enamoured with the city of Churches that they forgot to train and spent the time praying instead ? This sort of thinking belongs in the realm of astrology, like saying we lost because there was an Aquarius moon in a Taurus rising.
You, me and everyone else on here have no idea what was on the players minds. Fact is we lost the game the same way we lose all games - in general not playing 4 quarters and sloppy ball use.
We don't need to have any of these events - the only thing this club needs is to be ingrained by elite ruthlessness every single day of the week
Matthew Kennedy 26% game time (just over 30minutes)
13 disposals, 2 tackles, 1 goal, 5 inside 50s, 4 score involvements, 306 metres gained. ::)
Ill spew if he is Sub next week. Needs to be in the Guts !!!!!
Ok were do i start.
- Do our players know how to setup at centre bounces?
- Do we have a system to come out of the backline after a point is kicked?
- Do our forwards work hard enough up the ground?
- Do our players know how to kick to a leading player?
- Do our players know how to kick?
- Do our players know how to make a good decision?
So we won (apparently) most of the stats last night except for the main one. THE SCORE BORAD.
We will not be playing finals this year because there are not enough bad team below us for us to beat.
Dont know what else to say, most of it has been said in the previous post, is this what we now are going to get from our club all the time.
Rant over
Our whole organization from the very top to the boot studder is not ruthless enough and don't want it enough and out list has no leadership to correct anything.
Despite all the hope and talk again we are still miles off the pace. No leadership on this list and they just take performances like that on the chin without a whimper. We are a list filled with nice guys and none have a any sort of hard ruthless edge. Our captain was smiling after the game with Lachie Neale after he had a stinker while his direct opponent comprehensively smashed him and yet he still can smile? And all those that say that means nothing are kidding themself. We are powerless to do anything to change an outcome if it's not on our terms we have too many holes in a very unbalanced list to be genuine contenders. In the third quarter when we were jammed in our D50 and couldn't get out and not one player knew WTF to do. We looked stunned and just kept turning it over. It took a soft 50 metre penalty to get us out.
We are the ultimate teasers, pretenders that melt as soon as the heat is applied. And our opposition know it!
Again like so many pre seasons out list is talked up and many including me fall for it. Then the talk stops and we see teams below us with much less fanfare leapfrog over us and teams above us continue to pull away while we just pretend it all about to turn around any minute. Reality is another season has gone down the drain and i no longer have any belief our club is ever going to amount to anything.
Sad to say it but you are correct. Following on from the Adelaide game the third quarter last night laid bare how mediocre our list is.
We do not have small forwards capable of making an impact on a game. If H and Charlie are held it's game over.
We have a number one ruckman who was thrashed by McInerney, and our midfield were deprived of first use of the ball. At best Pittonet is a one dimensional, solid plodder.
We have a midfield that is easily brushed aside and is incapable of playing to a losing ruck.
Like so many previous years we have a defence which is placed under enormous pressure because of the failings of players further up the field. Unfortunately Weiters and Young are not handling the pressure well and basic mistakes are costing us big time.
In the last quarter Brisbane took the foot of the pedal and just did enough to win. What followed was the usual junk time goals.
No doubt when all the stars are in alignment this list will tease us with a win now and again and raise our hopes, but the reality is that mental fragility combined with a lack of basic skills under pressure will ensure that we stay in the bottom half of the ladder for the foreseeable future.
Fwiw, I tend to agree with Thry, it's not as bad as it seems.
Ignoring the horrendous turnovers from clear unforced mistakes, we basically won heaps of contested footy and forced as many turnovers from the Lions as they forced on us, the clear difference was we gave it back through unforced errors, and they then used it efficiently.
Those unforced errors must have been at least a 5 or 6 goal differential.
There was one stat i saw during the game that completely summed up the game.
Scores from turnovers
Brisbane 11 goals (they had 12 at the time).
Fix that, fix the game.
It was clear that our poor skill errors cost us the game.
We were up against a legit top 4 side who have done it over a number of years.
We have not even made finals for 10+ years. This result was to be expected somewhat.
We are coming.....but we are not there yet.
Sad part is we started our rebuild the same time as them.
There was one stat i saw during the game that completely summed up the game.
Scores from turnovers
Brisbane 11 goals (they had 12 at the time).
Fix that, fix the game.
It was clear that our poor skill errors cost us the game.There was one stat i saw during the game that completely summed up the game.
Scores from turnovers
Brisbane 11 goals (they had 12 at the time).
Fix that, fix the game.
It was clear that our poor skill errors cost us the game.
We were up against a legit top 4 side who have done it over a number of years.
We have not even made finals for 10+ years. This result was to be expected somewhat.
We are coming.....but we are not there yet.
Time to face facts and take the blue glasses off.
Fixing unforced errors is not as easy as you make it sound. You don’t click your fingers and fix this. The list is filled with blokes that crack under pressure they did it late last year when they thought they may actually play finals and again this year everytime a team applied heat.
Unforced errors are what bottom and mid tier teams cant control especially under pressure and it costs them goals and games most week. We are no different hence why we are in that group of teams and not where we all hoped we would be.
We lose games because we're not good enough to win. We've lost plenty of games that have nothing to with Carlton Respects.
Not saying that at all Paul. The players don't seem to lift for that cause is my point.
Not saying that at all Paul. The players don't seem to lift for that cause is my point.
I would have thought they were more likely to lift because of Docherty's 150 than the respect game.
The causes are good for awareness raising but I doubt they have any impact on performance either way.
If anything they may be a tiny bit of a distraction in the week leading up to them but not enough to affect results.
The 'promotion' duties are shared around so it wouldn't weigh too heavy on a players mind.
Sad part is we started our rebuild the same time as them.
Not sure thats relevant either. We have had 4 rebuilds since 2003. 3 have failed and this one is a work in progress. We had at least 3 blokes on field yesterday with less than 20 games played between them (cincotta, hollands, kemp).
Add motlop, durdin and honey and you have probably 100 games of footy combined.
These guys are all still finding consistency in being an afl footballer.
Not sure what people were expecting. The Bolton rebuild was declared a failure when we sacked teague.
Not sure thats relevant either. We have had 4 rebuilds since 2003. 3 have failed and this one is a work in progress. We had at least 3 blokes on field yesterday with less than 20 games played between them (cincotta, hollands, kemp).
Add motlop, durdin and honey and you have probably 100 games of footy combined.
These guys are all still finding consistency in being an afl footballer.
Not sure what people were expecting. The Bolton rebuild was declared a failure when we sacked teague.
They had Zorko and Rich out plus a few kids playing who are also light on for game time.
We can look for excuses but Brisbane own us and have seven out of the last eight games and a few junk time goals late doesn't hide the issues we have.
Matthew Kennedy 26% game time (just over 30minutes)
13 disposals, 2 tackles, 1 goal, 5 inside 50s, 4 score involvements, 306 metres gained. ::)
He's just the kind of bloke we need in our line up. Yet.
The fans leaving before 3/4 time on masse is something I have never seen before at a Carlton game. That was one hell of a Nuffs Enuff statement if I have ever seen one. I wonder what the Board, Coaches and Players will think about that.
And the booing. Been a long time since i have heard any of that at a game against us from supporters.
Not sure what people were expecting. The Bolton rebuild was declared a failure when we sacked teague.
No, this is the same rebuild.
The architects of it don't get off that easy.
If you can change players you can change coaches.
Worst rebuild ever.
We built a skeleton but didn't put any solid flesh on it.
8 years in the making and still no finals.
It's a lesson to other clubs.
Fwiw, I tend to agree with Thry, it's not as bad as it seems.
Ignoring the horrendous turnovers from clear unforced mistakes, we basically won heaps of contested footy and forced as many turnovers from the Lions as they forced on us, the clear difference was we gave it back through unforced errors, and they then used it efficiently.
Those unforced errors must have been at least a 5 or 6 goal differential.
That's what was so frustrating. Those couple of kick ins that favoured their fwds and resulted in easy goals, were unconscionable. Add in Young playing musical statues 25m out, resulting in another easy goal. Walshy clearing defence and kicking to an unmanned player (with a red jumper), resulting in another easy goal (or 2). These fuelled backline panic, perpetuating more perceived pressure, poor decision-making and skill error. All above the shouders stuff. They are fundamental errors, which changed the game because of the flow on effects.
Is this because they didn't know how to respond (plan B), how to exit defence? That's certainly what it looked like to me.
Granted, there was not enough being done further up the ground and the pressure and efficiency i50 isn't quite there (fwd line function is another story - way off what's needed). We get enough of the ball but don't seem to know what to do with it when the heat's applied. So we fluff around with it until someone who really wants it rocks up.
Last night that was Lions players. No wonder Fagan was having a jolly time in the box. Lions are a complete package IMO and will be there in September. Nonetheless, we had our chances and blew them due to the same inadequacies most of us have been banging on about for ages. Fix those and find some form and we'll challenge any team.
So for all the hard work (and there was a fair bit), it's those lapses where we loose focus and intensity. We then realise we're in the hot seat and stuff up. The opposition then lick their lips, pounce, and get reward on the scoreboard.
In a phrase, and many have mentioned it repeatedly, it's mental toughness we lack. The hunger, drive, never give in, unity and commitment to the cause at all cost. That’s no easy fix but it's doable. We all know our list needs a couple more pieces.
Go Blues
That's what was so frustrating. Those couple of kick ins that favoured their fwds and resulted in easy goals, were unconscionable. Add in Young playing musical statues 25m out, resulting in another easy goal.
Young was never going to catch Cameron but that is not the point, both he and Newman gave up the chase when done over, it's not a good look and coaches will lambaste them, but in fairness we probably stuffed that one up at the selection table. Newman might get some kudos for running himself into the ground, but even so you never give up.
A whack at the MC, we brought in Motlop and removed Fisher, which reduced our run against the club that is probably the strongest running team in this years competition, the team that ran all over the Dees. I don't care how much you like Motlop and what he can do, it comes at a price against hard running opposition.
Those kick-in turnovers hurt but they do not hurt as much as the ones that happened forward of centre, when we had open targets inside F50 and stuffed up a 30m pass.
I don't know how many times we kicked the ball behind our target to the advantage of the trailing defender, I gave up counting.
SoJ looked to be up and about, was getting the better of opponents, and we put it at his toes, then we try to fix that problem by letting McInerney beat up on him for a quarter or two!
Time to face facts and take the blue glasses off.
Fixing unforced errors is not as easy as you make it sound. You don’t click your fingers and fix this. The list is filled with blokes that crack under pressure they did it late last year when they thought they may actually play finals and again this year everytime a team applied heat.
Unforced errors are what bottom and mid tier teams cant control especially under pressure and it costs them goals and games most week. We are no different hence why we are in that group of teams and not where we all hoped we would be.
Unforced errors and turnovers are different. Turnovers includes 'forced errors' that result in turnovers. Its based on pressure from the opposition as much as it is stupid errors.
But, its easier than you think.
We gave up 2 goals (at least) by refusing to take the ball over the goal line. We ended up getting tackled within meters of the goal line and turning it over. Next time, just take it over. 2 goals saved.
Pick players who can kick.....under pressure. Starting with playing Kennedy for a whole game, not as a sub.
Also, make sure we are manning up until we are clear of a turnover coming back to bite us.
Too many times we got the ball in defense and took off running, only to turn it over, get kicked back over our heads for an easy goal. Make sure we stay at home for longer and limit those 'turnover -> goal' opportunities.
I was at the game, behind the goals top level. I was trying to teach the little one how to play as a key forward/defender. Where to position, where to lead etc etc. So i spent time focusing on Charlie/Harry and on Weitering.
Weitering absolutely dominated Daniher as well as helping out teammates by peeling accross. He thwarted so many forward thrusts simply by being smart.
Alternatively, the Lions played an extra defender (sometimes 2) in our forwardline for large portions of the game and we were too stupid to do much about it. Charlie is excellent when its too his advantage, but goes completely MIA when its not, doesn't chase and is not great on the spoil. We were so used to Charlie/Harry dominating, based on last weeks effort, that we didn't put much thought into how we kicked inside 50 this time. Class of opposition showed us up.
Be a little bit smarter and use our +1s around the ball to find a target rather than hoping Charlie and Harry can dominate.
We need to make sure we do ALL the basics very well before we start getting ahead of ourselves. I just get the strong impression that too many of players, especially senior ones, think we (including they as individuals) are better than we really are. Better on field leadership and guidance would help here imho.
No, this is the same rebuild.
The architects of it don't get off that easy.
If you can change players you can change coaches.
Worst rebuild ever.
We built a skeleton but didn't put any solid flesh on it.
8 years in the making and still no finals.
It's a lesson to other clubs.
Not any more lods. That rebuild gave us the core of the new rebuild. Go back 2 years. How many of our starting 23 were playing for us under teague?
There was one stat i saw during the game that completely summed up the game.
Scores from turnovers
Brisbane 11 goals (they had 12 at the time).
Fix that, fix the game.
It was clear that our poor skill errors cost us the game.
We were up against a legit top 4 side who have done it over a number of years.
We have not even made finals for 10+ years. This result was to be expected somewhat.
We are coming.....but we are not there yet.
But you have to ask yourself why do we turn it over so much? And when? Every single player knows how to play, kick, mark, tackle and handball ...very well.
When the game was entirely on our terms last week, very few turnovers... very little intense heat from an opponent not allowing it to be easy for us.
So... same old, same old. Under real, sustained heat from an opposition, we falter... and start making mistakes - turnovers. Not rocket science. Between the lugholes. Not tough enough. Not confident enough. Not ruthless enough. Lacking leadership and discipline... again, between the lugholes.
Come Monday morning, perhaps even Sunday morning, were I Messrs Cook and Sayers, I’d have one man and one man only sitting in front of us, B Lloyd… Head of Football. And I’d be asking, “How come?”
How come little has changed? In fact, we don’t look as good as last year, so perhaps we’ve even gone backwards.
How come we still go to water when real heat is applied, resulting in dreadful inconsistency within games?
How come we continue to make baffling decision at the selection table? Example: a fella with ordinary VFL form gets senior selection then plays 5 ordinary games in the seniors (Honey) while others in the VFL with good form are ignored?
How come we have so many out of form players?
And HOW COME we have two Coleman medalists in our forward line who can outreach 98% of the competition, a Brownlow medalist running the engine room, yet the game plan is obsessed with a backline kicking sideways and a midfield racking up uncontested possessions instead of using speed into our forward line to isolate our goal kickers...????
And HOW COME we have the same passengers as small forwards each week??
And HOW COME we have reserve players not being rewarded for effort week after week...??
And HOW COME, when we know Brisbane try to rag doll us, do we leave Kennedy on the bench as a sub...??
And HOW FREAKIN' COME did we sub Young off - one of our best backmen - and leave Honey, Motlop, Durdin on the ground...??
Why does everyone blame the small forwards after every loss.
Why does everyone blame the small forwards after every loss.
Can't see anybody blaming Charlie Cameron, Bailey or Sharp - they are small forwards too. Maybe their figures were better than our bottom six players?
Every single player knows how to play, kick, mark, tackle and handball ...very well.
By every single player, I assume you mean AFL players in general, I'm not convinced, in fact I know, not every single one of ours can. This trait has cost us more games and coaches than any team in the comp over the last several years.
Why does everyone blame the small forwards after every loss.
I suspect the reason behind it is related to an insufficient spread of goal kickers - it seems to be Charlie/Harry or bust. Whether it's justified or not is another matter. I'm also concerned about this issue, but I'd extend it to also include the mids, who should be hitting the scoreboard a little as well.
Couldn't sit through Voss' post match press conference. It was same old same old. In management speak people work towards their targets and KPI's. Voss spoke about contested football, clearances, tackles, how hard they're training, working hard and how the boys kept trying. I use to teach this sort of stuff and I always said there are inputs, outputs and through puts but it is outcomes that are the most important. In other words you need to look at the results and not the process. In football the only outcome is the score board. One of the problem at Carlton is that they have the wrong KPI's. We are focusing on contested football, tackling, hard running and playing your role and maybe we should be look at things like decision making with a ratio of good and bad, disposals under pressure with a ratio between good and bad, disposal not under pressure and a ratio between good and bad, selfless acts and risk taking etc. The players would the players would change their mindset and start working towards the new targets because that is how they would get a game. In other words I think we are measuring and rewarding the wrong things. It would also mean the coaches would be coaching different things. If you are not going to change what you are doing then you can't expect the outcome to change. Just a thought.
In the last quarter, Pittonet monstered McInerney, Kennedy ran riot, players attacked the ball, took risks and we actually looked like a finals team. Still made the same mistakes and bloopers we had made earlier, but because we were having a go Brisbane started making mistakes, panicking and became rattled. Why don't we play like we played in the last quarter all the time. Where is our intent. Where is the willingness by players to take a chance and have a go. In the last quarter Kennedy grabbed the ball and kicked the goal. Why don't we just do that all the time. We are clearly incapable of playing perfect football with crisp disposal, why don't we just get the ball forward and play the game on our terms in a contested manner physical manner. we should probably be taking the Kennedy Commandos approach to our football rather than the clinical slick ball movement of the Clarkson era.
I am really sick of it.
We should probably be taking the Kennedy Commandos approach to our football rather than the clinical slick ball movement of the Clarkson era.
Personally, I can't imagine that being of much use with Honey, Durdin and Motlop inside F50, we'd be second to the ball all the time and as fans we already complain about those mindless long bombs!
If not for all the unforced skill errors, we probably win last night, because general play wasn't as one-sided as fans are making out.
Ball use and efficiency was horribly asymmetrical, not doubting that, and it was the difference.
Not any more lods. That rebuild gave us the core of the new rebuild. Go back 2 years. How many of our starting 23 were playing for us under teague?
I guess you can call it whatever you like
Rebuild 1.1, Rebuild 2.0
But to me it's the same unfinished job.
I never wanted us to go down that path anyway.
And as far as I'm concerned it's still the same 'project' that was first dreamed up in 2014 and declared in 2015.
It's not a new rebuild until you finish the old one.
Over eight or nine years you will get a significant change of personnel
In our case we've had significant changes in just a few years.
That's a large part of the problem.
The players are playing with different teammates each year and no line is really settled.
But it's not a new start.
It's a 'tinkering' that occurs each year with the draft and trade period.
Because the core group is there, in place.
A rebuild is an ongoing process until you achieve the desired success.
Silvagni said as much when he took on the job.
He wasn't looking to build a side that just made the eight.
He was building a side for 'sustained' success.
Now we can argue the merits of Silvagni's successful and not so successful choices
Even SOS will admit he probably cut too deeply.
But his goal was right.
...and it's an ongoing process, and it's not over till we reach the goal....and we ain't there yet.
The fact that the original architects are no longer around doesn't mean a thing.
That lets them off the hook.
And they should be held accountable for the length of time it's taken.
We took a decision to cut our list back and reconstuct it and until we're playing deep into finals on a regular basis that task is incomplete.
I guess you can call it whatever you like
Rebuild 1.1, Rebuild 2.0
But to me it's the same unfinished job.
I never wanted us to go down that path anyway.
And as far as I'm concerned it's still the same 'project' that was first dreamed up in 2014 and declared in 2015.
It's not a new rebuild until you finish the old one.
Over eight or nine years you will get a significant change of personnel
In our case we've had significant changes in just a few years.
That's a large part of the problem.
The players are playing with different teammates each year and no line is really settled.
But it's not a new start.
It's a 'tinkering' that occurs each year with the draft and trade period.
Because the core group is there, in place.
A rebuild is an ongoing process until you achieve the desired success.
Silvagni said as much when he took on the job.
He wasn't looking to build a side that just made the eight.
He was building a side for 'sustained' success.
Now we can argue the merits of Silvagni's successful and not so successful choices
Even SOS will admit he probably cut too deeply.
But his goal was right.
...and it's an ongoing process, and it's not over till we reach the goal....and we ain't there yet.
The fact that the original architects are no longer around doesn't mean a thing.
That lets them off the hook.
And they should be held accountable for the length of time it's taken.
We took a decision to cut our list back and reconstuct it and until we're playing deep into finals on a regular basis that task is incomplete.
Not to me. Are st. Kilda still rebuilding for 60 years?
Nope. You can simply point to an inflection point where they said that's enough of that, and had to "start again". In the process your newbies become the key players and then new newbies come in to transform it all.
Sos rebuilding started with weitering, McKay, jsos, cunners, and curnow. These players have now come of age and are complementing our previous rebuild players of docherty and cripps. You look through the team there is very little else remaining and aside from adding walsh, and then you change the list manager, coach, football boss, CEO etc, go out and recruit a bunch of new players and start ditching a lot of the sos rebuild players, that's where you have started to pull it down using the old rebuild as foundations for a new one.
Thats where I'm at in terms of where our team is. The inflection point was sack Bolton, teague was to continue that project. Voss arrival signalled the start of a new project.
Not to me. Are st. Kilda still rebuilding for 60 years?
Thats where I'm at in terms of where our team is. The inflection point was sack Bolton, teague was to continue that project. Voss arrival signalled the start of a new project.
We'll have to agree to disagree, Thry
As far as I'm concerned the original job is unfinished.
Voss is just the latest manager of the 'project'
St Kilda played in a Grand Finals in 2009-2010
They played finals in 2020.... so no, they haven't been rebuilding for 60 years.
We can call an end to the rebuild when we have that level of success.
We'll have to agree to disagree, Thry
As far as I'm concerned the original job is unfinished.
Voss is just the latest manager of the 'project'
St Kilda played in a Grand Finals in 2009-2010
They played finals in 2020.... so no, they haven't been rebuilding for 60 years.
We can call an end to the rebuild when we have that level of success.
Are we building the footy version of La Sagrada Familia? Sometimes feels like it.
Unforced errors and turnovers are different. Turnovers includes 'forced errors' that result in turnovers. Its based on pressure from the opposition as much as it is stupid errors.
But, its easier than you think.
We gave up 2 goals (at least) by refusing to take the ball over the goal line. We ended up getting tackled within meters of the goal line and turning it over. Next time, just take it over. 2 goals saved.
Pick players who can kick.....under pressure. Starting with playing Kennedy for a whole game, not as a sub.
Also, make sure we are manning up until we are clear of a turnover coming back to bite us.
Too many times we got the ball in defense and took off running, only to turn it over, get kicked back over our heads for an easy goal. Make sure we stay at home for longer and limit those 'turnover -> goal' opportunities.
I was at the game, behind the goals top level. I was trying to teach the little one how to play as a key forward/defender. Where to position, where to lead etc etc. So i spent time focusing on Charlie/Harry and on Weitering.
Weitering absolutely dominated Daniher as well as helping out teammates by peeling accross. He thwarted so many forward thrusts simply by being smart.
Alternatively, the Lions played an extra defender (sometimes 2) in our forwardline for large portions of the game and we were too stupid to do much about it. Charlie is excellent when its too his advantage, but goes completely MIA when its not, doesn't chase and is not great on the spoil. We were so used to Charlie/Harry dominating, based on last weeks effort, that we didn't put much thought into how we kicked inside 50 this time. Class of opposition showed us up.
Be a little bit smarter and use our +1s around the ball to find a target rather than hoping Charlie and Harry can dominate.
You say pick players who can kick better that’s a great idea provided you have players to pick. We had pretty much our stronger team so no more excuses.
You also say we played stupid and need to play smarter. Do you think our players have the ability to play smart.
I’ve been watching this list grow and I can tell you quite confidently this is the dumbest collection of footballers you will see and once you add in game day pressure the level of stupidity increases.
You can’t turn stupidity on and off nor can you quickly resolve poor kicking skills. You have it or you don’t.
We don’t.
Are we building the footy version of La Sagrada Familia? Sometimes feels like it.
:))
Yep, it will be very nice...when it's finished.
Are we building the footy version of La Sagrada Familia? Sometimes feels like it.
Its a great analogy.
You say pick players who can kick better that’s a great idea provided you have players to pick. We had pretty much our stronger team so no more excuses.
You also say we played stupid and need to play smarter. Do you think our players have the ability to play smart.
I’ve been watching this list grow and I can tell you quite confidently this is the dumbest collection of footballers you will see and once you add in game day pressure the level of stupidity increases.
You can’t turn stupidity on and off nor can you quickly resolve poor kicking skills. You have it or you don’t.
We don’t.
We can kick ok when we switch on properly. We showed that last year when we near made finals playing with " half a side" most weeks. Missed by just 2 "chokes". Unfortunately we have a group not hungry enough for long enough so alot less care is taken executing. They either switch on each week or otherwise it is yet just another wasted season. Worse now as we have a side that can take a step.
We can kick ok when we switch on properly. We showed that last year when we near made finals playing with " half a side" most weeks. Missed by just 2 "chokes". Unfortunately we have a group not hungry enough for long enough so alot less care is taken executing. They either switch on each week or otherwise it is yet just another wasted season. Worse now as we have a side that can take a step.
As Baggers says the problem is also 'between the lug holes'.
You say pick players who can kick better that’s a great idea provided you have players to pick. We had pretty much our stronger team so no more excuses.
You also say we played stupid and need to play smarter. Do you think our players have the ability to play smart.
I’ve been watching this list grow and I can tell you quite confidently this is the dumbest collection of footballers you will see and once you add in game day pressure the level of stupidity increases.
You can’t turn stupidity on and off nor can you quickly resolve poor kicking skills. You have it or you don’t.
We don’t.
Its about picking players that can kick, yes, but its also on game day.
Its like the old, 'never let a ruckman kick the ball' type of tactics.
Look at the blokes that got plenty of the ball....and turned it over plenty.
Don't let Acres be the last one in the chain when he bombs it up without looking and it goes straight to the opposition. Ditto Cripps.
So start with limiting the players you want kicking the ball.
Then work out where players SHOULD be kicking the ball, and where players need to be in order to receive it.
I'm not sure if it showed up on TV at all, but there was a number of occassions when we were on a 'fast break' and had to stop and go sideways simply because there was nobody forward of the ball to kick too. All our forwards had pushed so far up the ground that nobody was left at home. How can we find a target up forward when there isn't a target there at all?
As much as we want players to chase their man and have an 18-man team defense, sometimes that is exactly what the opposition want as it means they can't get hurt on the turnover. So perhaps we are better off leaving someone back so we always have a target to kick too.
You never used to see Fev up around the wing. He barely got outside 50.
Work smarter, not harder.
How dumb are some of our fans, they haven't worked out that staying cheering and jeering loud and proud en masse like the Filth fans, actually influences the result!
Outbarracked by a puddle of old Fitzroy fans!
Maybe we are the why the team is the way it is?
How dumb are some of our fans, they haven't worked out that staying cheering and jeering loud and proud en masse like the Filth fans, actually influences the result!
Outbarracked by a puddle of old Fitzroy fans!
Maybe we are the why the team is the way it is?
There is the unwritten rule that you stay until the end win lose or draw, but I can understand the frustrations of some of the more passionate supporters and not wanting to stay and watch the crap we dish up. When asked in his presser about fans leaving early, Voss commented that he/we cant control what they do. Yes you absolutely can control what they do in that respect Michael. Play better and they’ll stay.
Brisbane scored 100 points total , and 85 of those were from turnovers, according to Cornes and Beveridge on The Round So Far. That’s a crazy number and surely at this level, a rare occurrence. I hope.
Its about picking players that can kick, yes, but its also on game day.
Its like the old, 'never let a ruckman kick the ball' type of tactics.
Look at the blokes that got plenty of the ball....and turned it over plenty.
Don't let Acres be the last one in the chain when he bombs it up without looking and it goes straight to the opposition. Ditto Cripps.
So start with limiting the players you want kicking the ball.
Then work out where players SHOULD be kicking the ball, and where players need to be in order to receive it.
I'm not sure if it showed up on TV at all, but there was a number of occassions when we were on a 'fast break' and had to stop and go sideways simply because there was nobody forward of the ball to kick too. All our forwards had pushed so far up the ground that nobody was left at home. How can we find a target up forward when there isn't a target there at all?
As much as we want players to chase their man and have an 18-man team defense, sometimes that is exactly what the opposition want as it means they can't get hurt on the turnover. So perhaps we are better off leaving someone back so we always have a target to kick too.
You never used to see Fev up around the wing. He barely got outside 50.
Work smarter, not harder.
One tall, one small forward in the forward 50 at all times.
They have to man up on them.
It's not rocket science...it's the bleeding obvious.
Or maybe just one really, really good tall forward...signed D. Pagan. ;D
Brisbane scored 100 points total , and 85 of those were from turnovers, according to Cornes and Beveridge on The Round So Far. That’s a crazy number and surely at this level, a rare occurrence. I hope.
I may be wrong but I thought I read Bris average 75 a week from TOs so they put immense pressure on.
I may be wrong but I thought I read Bris average 75 a week from TOs so they put immense pressure on.
Wow. Really ? That’s crazy.
I may be wrong but I thought I read Bris average 75 a week from TOs so they put immense pressure on.
And we obliged by going to water, the symptoms of which are poor disposal, decision making and general loss of confidence/cohesion. Between the lugholes. As much as I hate to admit it - downhill skiers.
Needed, urgently: a relentless, disciplined,
pro-active, ruthless, physical training regime. We play how we train... which must be nice and easy and not addressing the mental aspect of winning. Perhaps with the injuries issue the Terrier was told to back off on pushing the boys too hard and we're seeing the results? Who knows. But there's definitely a cog missing in the mental toughness of our lads.
And we obliged by going to water, the symptoms of which are poor disposal, decision making and general loss of confidence/cohesion. Between the lugholes. As much as I hate to admit it - downhill skiers.
Needed, urgently: a relentless, disciplined, pro-active, ruthless, physical training regime. We play how we train... which must be nice and easy and not addressing the mental aspect of winning. Perhaps with the injuries issue the Terrier was told to back off on pushing the boys too hard and we're seeing the results? Who knows. But there's definitely a cog missing in the mental toughness of our lads.
Our form and performances mimic a roller coaster, steep incline, hit the top and steep decent, rince and repeat. Right now we are the bottom of the next incline. What we need to mimic is The Ghost train, a few scares along the way but nice and flat.
Brisbane scored 100 points total , and 85 of those were from turnovers, according to Cornes and Beveridge on The Round So Far. That’s a crazy number and surely at this level, a rare occurrence. I hope.
Every week we see the same names pop up about who should be dropped. I wonder if they match the names of the players who committed those turnovers?
Total Turnovers
Walsh 7
Hollands 6
Docherty 5
Acres 5
Pittonet 5
Young 5
Every week we see the same names pop up about who should be dropped. I wonder if they match the names of the players who committed those turnovers?
Total Turnovers
Walsh 7
Hollands 6
Docherty 5
Acres 5
Pittonet 5
Young 5
I don't generally keep track of which player commits which atrocities on game day, but I understand your point. I'm a little surprised seeing Young's name there, but the others not so much, principally because of the position they play. If you're a mid / winger / ruck, you're pretty much wearing real heat for 4 quarters, so they tend to have less time to dispose / distribute, and I would imagine across the competition they would have a lower DE and higher turnover numbers.
Also surprised not to see Cripps' name on that list.
Total Turnovers
Walsh 7
Hollands 6
Docherty 5
Acres 5
Pittonet 5
Young 5
Like I said, it wasn't kids (apart from Hollands), it was senior players. Weiters had 3 and I know one fore sure resulted in a Cameron goal.
Walsh has come back to the pack with the interrupted PS. As have a few others. I suspect our PS program was inadequate due to injuries and other issues .
Walsh had a shocker with his disposal the other night.
It was 50%
He just didn't seem right.
Situations where he would normally get the ball away, he was caught.
Hopefully he just had a bad one.
But Walsh rarely has a bad one :-\
No other team in AFL kicks more straight to opposition than Carlton players ,been happening for years ,turnover goal very sad.
No other team in AFL kicks more straight to opposition than Carlton players ,been happening for years ,turnover goal very sad.
I thought it was because of the Lions clash jumper was too similar to our jumper. That's why when our players looked up and saw a player and kicked it straight to them.
Unfortunately it was a Bears player.
It can be the only explanation. :o
I thought it was because of the Lions clash jumper was too similar to our jumper. That's why when our players looked up and saw a player and kicked it straight to them.
Unfortunately it was a Bears player.
It can be the only explanation. :o
That being the case our kicking was the best its been for over a decade!
Kennedy had as many inside 50s in one quarter (and a fraction) than everyone else (on both sides) had for the entire game
WTF is he doing sitting on the bench.
Walsh had plenty of ball but his disposal was pretty poor. He just didn't seem right. Normally he'd get the ball away cleanly in those tight situations but he got caught a couple of times.
And why was Young the one to make way?
It should have been Honey imo.
The players seem confused, even one commentator said it. I've seen this a bit this year. They are not on the same page.
Dare I say it, this seems to be a coaching problem. We seem to get the same dribble after every game in his post match conferences.
And HOW COME we have two Coleman medalists in our forward line who can outreach 98% of the competition, a Brownlow medalist running the engine room, yet the game plan is obsessed with a backline kicking sideways and a midfield racking up uncontested possessions instead of using speed into our forward line to isolate our goal kickers...????
And HOW COME we have the same passengers as small forwards each week??
And HOW COME we have reserve players not being rewarded for effort week after week...??
And HOW COME, when we know Brisbane try to rag doll us, do we leave Kennedy on the bench as a sub...??
And HOW FREAKIN' COME did we sub Young off - one of our best backmen - and leave Honey, Motlop, Durdin on the ground...??
Coach???
Perhaps also worth bearing in mind that Fagan has been lauding Dunkley's game as one for the ages. Not sure why he had to play his best ever game against us............
Perhaps also worth bearing in mind that Fagan has been lauding Dunkley's game as one for the ages. Not sure why he had to play his best ever game against us............
Not many times Dunkley would have been asked to tag, that might even be the first time he has done it!
Walsh had a shocker with his disposal the other night.
It was 50%
He just didn't seem right.
Situations where he would normally get the ball away, he was caught.
Hopefully he just had a bad one.
But Walsh rarely has a bad one :-\
There is a difference between being match fit and on top of your game. Just because Walsh is 'match fit' (and should be playing) doesnt mean he is going to be at his dominant best immediately. He's had NO preseason and significant back surgery.
Last year he came back 'match fit' but took a number of weeks to hit 4th gear. I'm confident that 4th gear this year is not far away....but will it be too late, is the question.
There is a difference between being match fit and on top of your game. Just because Walsh is 'match fit' (and should be playing) doesnt mean he is going to be at his dominant best immediately. He's had NO preseason and significant back surgery.
Last year he came back 'match fit' but took a number of weeks to hit 4th gear. I'm confident that 4th gear this year is not far away....but will it be too late, is the question.
He just had a bad one...he got plenty of the ball he just used it poorly and wasn't able to release as well as he normally does and that probably says more about the Brisbane pressure than a lack of match fitness. They played him well.
And why was Young the one to make way?
It should have been Honey imo.
Young was terrible and refused to contest properly a couple of times....not easy subbing off your KP backman and leaving the team unbalanced but I understand the frustration of Voss and agree with what he did. When you have a 200cm/100kg player not contesting hard enough its not good enough, Barrassi would have done what he did to Phil Baker one day...
Young was terrible and refused to contest properly a couple of times....not easy subbing off your KP backman and leaving the team unbalanced but I understand the frustration of Voss and agree with what he did.
I felt we needed more run and Young wasn't having any impact given the Lion's were scoring via the smalls.
But I agree, for all that looked positive from Young a few weeks back in some small ruck rotations, it seems to have dented his confidence around the ground, which now looks like another negative of only running one ruck.
But having said that, both Young and Weiters are struggling form wise, both have been seen punching the footy even when completely uncontested. I mean having nobody within 5m should be a 100% a mark for those lads, never the alternative!
John Nicholls Medal….
Have been dormant for a while guys but have emerged..haha!
Best players award should be lock down mid season award already…The Carlton Marketing Dept absolute all stars…They suck us in every year with the pumped up tripe…look what we are cooking…etc etc…….. 80/90k ? Yet why are half the Baggers walking out at 3/4 time… Because everyone is and had a gutful of this mediocity and false promises….go have a look at Blue Heaven…he’s out of words…thats good for him..hope u noticed Pres Sayers?
We picked a very poor coach sorry…he failed at Lions cos he played early 2000’s tough footy and a 3 peat and thought that was the std formula to win >>>his game mode is so
outdated its laughable…no change Charlie up the ground when his full back killed him?…swap him with Harry surely? Give him space and put Payne out of his short career comfort zone( by the way he was equal BOG keeping a bloke off 9 to 1……impressed! He can play)
Our friggin smalls are soo insipid c/w…their 2.. Charlie and Bailey 7/8 between them v 2/3 from us…they can play(both AS smalls but our running patterns are pathetic….sit under the talls and bring defenders in so Chaz and H have to take a mark in Bourke St Mall its so screwed like U/14 footy…Josh Honey really 5 touches…aaargh 1 shot and of course missed
Surely they have to stretch out both flanks..create scoring options and than hit the contest at pace for the ball drop form the 2 talls…101 footy….. its so frustrating
Sorry Jack…glad u got 100 games but times up… so slow and misses so many 1 grabbers and kicking skills really? 15 m the other night get real
How we going with Jack Martins 600k a year? He has the skill to be a third tall risk like the 5 v Richmond when he first played….sorry about the chasing…but he can hurt the oppo when switched on ….Owies can get 3/4…I dont rate the others…Motlop will grow into it… but is Hansen our fwd coach? Holly screw
a welcome back rant finished……
Welcome back, Gags.
Liked Cerra's media contribution. Though concerned that he mentioned the players were, 'Mentally strong on...' Really? Perhaps it's a work in progress, to give the benefit of the doubt. Interesting that he said not making finals wouldn't be a failure... but remained a goal, like every other club! He can hold his head high for the season he's put together thus far, with he and Chugga (when he finally came on!!!) both strong in their roles.
Based on Young's form you'd hope tall Durds is available. As Ye Rat O' The River pointed out, be good to see Weiters released to half back rather than being anchored to the last line.
Glad the club is challenging Newey's suspension, just push and shove and how 'intentional' could be interpreted from what occurred is odd, to say the least. And how H ended up with a bloodied eye went completely without citing is also 'odd'... it was the very definition of reckless. MRO... crap shoot.
I noticed right from the start of the game the Bears were out to hurt us. They were tackling with intent to hurt and when they won the free kick they certainly told us.
When teams do this physical stuff yeah we might do a bit of push and shove back but it creates perceived pressure and the players panic because they don't want to be tackled harshly and hurt.
We are a NICE team, we have no MONGREL, no one tackles to hurt someone.
You look back to when we were successful, we had all this, Whorethorn played unsocialable, Richmond were dirty.
I'm not saying we go out there and play with high elbows but play angry, play to win, no prisoners. I'm over this nice guy stuff.
Still can't work out the umpiring, they got so many HTB yet we got hardly any. Is it the way we tackle?
Why didn't Harry get a free kick for the whack he copped to the eye. 4 Umpires? WTF were they looking at?
Harry is always being held. Cripps is always being held at stoppages. I thought the 4 ump system was brought in to have extra eyes around contests not divide the ground up into qtrs instead of thirds With each ump sticking to his lane.
The Match committee should be sacked today! Not tomorrow! How many games do we lose and then mention the MC?
We are charlatans, but I thought we did very well last night with a half a playing list made up of VFL standard players.
Agree 100% on the comparisons to Hawks and Tigs - we dont have that ruthlessness
If I see Crippa being held before a stoppage (and then when there was a free pinged for it - it was to Neale!!) or Harry being shoved under the ball in a marking contest (the old Paul Roos trained "tunnel") - i'll scream.
As for the the HTBs - i am sure that the majoirty of the time McCluggage and Dunkley were tackled, they did the old "pretend to punch the ball out" trick, except that it wasnt being held to them, and it was obvious they werent actually trying to get it out. also saw a few drag the ball in during the tackle - but im not sure we got a HTB all night???
ah well, that was NOT the reason for the loss - but still craps me!
a few have menitoned it on here - but the number of goals they got out the back, just walking into goal must be a real indicator of how poor our d50 structure was....
Tonyo I think our dare and run was there, we just kept giving it to blokes in Brisbane jumpers. Even the commentators said it one point, I think it was a Weiters grubber kick to a running Doc maybe? The idea was there, the kick was poor which resulted in a slight fumble then Brisbane player pouncing to apply pressure and the TO and it went straight back for a goal. Thats demoralising. I just expect better from players of that that experience.
Confidence maybe???
Confidence maybe???
We need a Brain / Attitude / Physc Coach!!!!!!!
You can doing anything, you just need to believe.
Couldn't sit through Voss' post match press conference. It was same old same old. In management speak people work towards their targets and KPI's. Voss spoke about contested football, clearances, tackles, how hard they're training, working hard and how the boys kept trying. I use to teach this sort of stuff and I always said there are inputs, outputs and through puts but it is outcomes that are the most important. In other words you need to look at the results and not the process. In football the only outcome is the score board. One of the problem at Carlton is that they have the wrong KPI's. We are focusing on contested football, tackling, hard running and playing your role and maybe we should be look at things like decision making with a ratio of good and bad, disposals under pressure with a ratio between good and bad, disposal not under pressure and a ratio between good and bad, selfless acts and risk taking etc. The players would the players would change their mindset and start working towards the new targets because that is how they would get a game. In other words I think we are measuring and rewarding the wrong things. It would also mean the coaches would be coaching different things. If you are not going to change what you are doing then you can't expect the outcome to change. Just a thought.
In the last quarter, Pittonet monstered McInerney, Kennedy ran riot, players attacked the ball, took risks and we actually looked like a finals team. Still made the same mistakes and bloopers we had made earlier, but because we were having a go Brisbane started making mistakes, panicking and became rattled. Why don't we play like we played in the last quarter all the time. Where is our intent. Where is the willingness by players to take a chance and have a go. In the last quarter Kennedy grabbed the ball and kicked the goal. Why don't we just do that all the time. We are clearly incapable of playing perfect football with crisp disposal, why don't we just get the ball forward and play the game on our terms in a contested manner physical manner. we should probably be taking the Kennedy Commandos approach to our football rather than the clinical slick ball movement of the Clarkson era.
I am really sick of it.
A Brain guy for this ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
One of the biggest issues i had with the umpires the other night is that they were momentum killers.
Not sure how much, if any, showed up on TV, but every time the crowd started getting into it, players started lifting and getting on a roll, out of nowhere was a stupid free kick that is paid like 5% of the time.
It was as predictable as the sun rising each day.
It took the wind out of our sails and turned the match on numerous occassions (or stopped the turning of the match, depending on your point of view)
All this Voss talk is a distraction, we should be protesting over Nic Newman's treatment in this context.
Take a look at that Demon being banned, note there were several players already banned this season for the incidental contact of a shoulder or head, then watch the video of BigH getting his eye split open and ask yourself how can this be?
Either all the earlier cases were unjust, or the BigH case resulting in a nothing is unjust, it has to be one or the other.
Don't blame me for raising this issue, the MRO has done it to himself!
@LP...Newman is a goose, it was a cheap shot and he got caught.
He let the team down and should know better as one of the teams senior players.
@LP...Newman is a goose, it was a cheap shot and he got caught.
He let the team down and should know better as one of the teams senior players.
Did you see the other angle?
It seems to show Newman stupidly retaliating, but making initial contact with the chest first and Neale flops at the knees to make contact with Newman's forearm as he drops.
I've got no problems with players being penalised for genuine contact, I have a big issue with players being done over by a flop.
In any case, how does the Newman / Neale event explain the McKay eye-opener in the context of the weekends other penalties?
Coaches' votes :
10 Josh Dunkley (BL)
8 Jack Payne (BL)
4 Charlie Cameron (BL)
3 Adam Cerra (CARL)
3 Harris Andrews (BL)
1 Zac Bailey (BL)
1 Hugh McCluggage (BL)
Did you see the other angle?
It seems to show Newman stupidly retaliating, but making initial contact with the chest first and Neale flops at the knees to make contact with Newman's forearm as he drops.
I've got no problems with players being penalised for genuine contact, I have a big issue with players being done over by a flop.
In any case, how does the Newman / Neale event explain the McKay eye-opener in the context of the weekends other penalties?
Newman shouldnt be making off the ball contact with Neale anyway imo especially within range of goal and especially not in front of the umpire. It was clear it was contact to the Jaw and Im sure Neale milked it but it was the stupidity that annoyed me more than anything.
That was a nasty cut near Harry's eye and deserved more attention from the officials, it was called a stray head clash in the media report I read but it looked different from memory.
That was a nasty cut near Harry's eye and deserved more attention from the officials, it was called a stray head clash in the media report I read but it looked different from memory.
FFS, it looked to me like the point of the shoulder.
How do you accidentally hit a 205cm bloke in the head with the point of your shoulder, it's like Cripps continually getting his head ripped off by midgets and not getting a free kick?
The contradiction will be this week, touch Bont above the shoulders and he'll get an instant free kick, he'll probably even kick a goal or two because of it!
Newman shouldnt be making off the ball contact with Neale anyway imo especially within range of goal and especially not in front of the umpire. It was clear it was contact to the Jaw and Im sure Neale milked it but it was the stupidity that annoyed me more than anything.
That was a nasty cut near Harry's eye and deserved more attention from the officials, it was called a stray head clash in the media report I read but it looked different from memory.
Agree and it’s not the first time that Newman has let his emotions get the better of him. Needs to be more disciplined as one of our senior players.
FFS, it looked to me like the point of the shoulder.
How do you accidentally hit a 205cm bloke in the head with the point of your shoulder, it's like Cripps continually getting his head ripped off by midgets and not getting a free kick?
The contradiction will be this week, touch Bont above the shoulders and he'll get an instant free kick, he'll probably even kick a goal or two because of it!
Accidental head clash! Well, FM. Bullshizen. You're not imagining anything Spotted One... it was a shoulder or raised elbow.
Agree and it’s not the first time that Newman has let his emotions get the better of him. Needs to be more disciplined as one of our senior players.
Fair enough, but go back and watch that Footy Classified clip that Hunchy used to roast Newman about giving up the chase and having poor body language, while watching the angles take careful note of who the 3 or 4 other closest players to Newman are then tell me that he is not the new Plowman!
If you count him outnumbered 2 to 1, from the reverse angle you can increase that to 3 or 4 to 1, no bloody wonder he's had enough he's not a miracle worker! In the old days players could snatch the pill and boot it to the boundary, now that's penalised.
Fans have got to stop watching the footy and potting blokes without cause, and then they need to start asking some much harder questions of their favourites playing further up the field!
Far enough, but go back and watch that Footy Classified clip that Hunchy used to roast Newman about giving up the chase and having poor body language, while watching the angles take careful note of who the 3 or 4 other closest players to Newman are then tell me that he is not the new Plowman!
If you count him outnumbered 2 to 1, from the reverse angle you can increase that to 3 or 4 to 1, no bloody wonder he's had enough he's not a miracle worker! In the old days players could snatch the pill and boot it to the boundary, now that's penalised.
Fans have got to stop watching the footy and potting blokes without cause, and then they need to start asking some much harder questions of their favourites playing further up the field!
I was not commenting on that incident.??
I was not commenting on that incident.??
That's fair enough, but that is one of the incidents that has prompted a lot of the debate and is piling pressure on Newman courtesy of the AFL media.
Look we need to bring back BRENDON BOLTON. He is the master and the one that can take us to the promised land the second time around.
Look we need to bring back BRENDON BOLTON. He is the master and the one that can take us to the promised land the second time around.
But for heaven's sake tell him "Winning is important". ::) ;D
But for heaven's sake tell him "Winning is important". ::) ;D
Think he has found that out at Collingwood under their new coach....
So Neale might have "helped a bit" with the contact! ;D
But for heaven's sake tell him "Winning is important". ::) ;D
If we are going to bring back a previous coach, Ratten would be my choice!!!