Another night game, on Saturday night, at 1930 at Marvel.
Not expecting much from us, to be honest. All too often we;
[1] get out-coached in the matchups.
[2] butcher the ball.
[3] play in patches.
[4] not tag better players out of the game.
[5] not get enough from important players.
Not a hope in hell, Dogs by 30 pts
We are one side the Dogs have nightmares with, even when we were going badly. We win this week. We beat middle of the road teams. Even when they beat us in 2021 we were 27pts up near 3 qtr time. We'll likely lift and pump them then crash and burn against the Pies the next week in meek Carlton fashion.
Not a hope in hell, Dogs by 30 pts
Dogs hate playing us. We'll lift this week, as we do often the week after a pissant effort, then c0ck it up again a week later. Middle of the road sides we usually beat.
We are one side the Dogs have nightmares with, even when we were going badly. We win this week. We beat middle of the road teams. Even when they beat us in 2021 we were 27pts up near 3 qtr time. We'll likely lift and pump them then crash and burn against the Pies the next week in meek Carlton fashion.
Fans are forgetting, Dunkley got us last night, he isn't at the Dogs anymore!
I expect a significant rebound, as I said before the Wet Toast game after Charlie's earlier shocker he'll be mustard one week and mickey mouse the next because that is the way it goes with most KPFs!
We are one side the Dogs have nightmares with, even when we were going badly. We win this week. We beat middle of the road teams. Even when they beat us in 2021 we were 27pts up near 3 qtr time. We'll likely lift and pump them then crash and burn against the Pies the next week in meek Carlton fashion.
Agree, Dogs are patchy like us and I think we will rebound and win but then have real problems with the hard running Pies the following week.
Flakey inconsistent players like Fisher should stay in the VFL
Honey is no where near it and his time is up
Durdin is on a road to no where and back in the VFL as not good enough for AFL.
Owies and Cottrell the ins for me.
I would say Boyd will come in for Newman seeing he's out for a week.
Yep, we have a better chance of beating Dogs than Lions:
1. Good recent history against them as we match up well.
2. Dunkley gone.
3. Treloar out injured.
4. There’s either no tag available for Cripps or it’s not practical as they want the Bont and Libba to hunt the ball. At worst, Bont will play on Cripps but not as a tagger.
5. Harry and Charlie don’t have obvious opponents. Jones has the pace and height to match Harry but Harry should be able to drag him outside 50 and blow him up and Charlie won’t give him the sort of straight lines that Jones likes.
If Ed Curnow holds his spot, sic him onto Bailey Dale as an ultra-defensive half-forward to stop Dale from using his elite kicking skills to set up play.
I forgot the other good omen - Zaine Cordy is gone too. Wow, what a bullet we dodged there.
B: Boyd Weitering Kemp
HB: Doc McGovern Saad
C: Acres Cripps Hollands
HF: Walsh McKay Kennedy
F: Motlop Charlie Silvagni
R: Pittonet Hewett Cerra
IC: Curnow Cincotta Owies Cottrell
Sub: Carroll or Binns
Newman got a week for his dog act.
Newman got a week for his dog act.
The act of a dumb ass.
In Cottrell Owies Dow Cowan/Boyd/Binns Sub One of Cowan/Boyd/Binns
Out Honey Newman Hollands Durdin Ed
Dow in the guts nuffs enuff
Weiters needs a break from footy but they haven't got the balls to do it.
Kennedy HFF swapping with Dow and/or other mid
One of Cowan Binns or Boyd in. Not sure if Cowan is injured or still being rested? If he is ready he comes in.
The above doesn't change the fact we can't hit targets or kick out effectively from FB, these are serious issues that I think the coaching staff have no answers for. If Ess role PA, we drop out of the 8 which is where I reckon we deserve to be the way we are playing. Perhaps that my give some of the gooses we have in the side the kick in the ass they need.
I agree 100% with this.
We can't persist with the same people failing to deliver or making the same old errors. We won't progress. Season's gone, time to sort the wheat from the chaff.
Maybe it is time to play Dow and tell him to just go for it, bugger his apparent lack of defensive effort. Something different.
So the likes of Honey, Ed etc. Thanks for your service. Ed has been a great servant of the club but his ball use has been an issue since he started.
And time to send blokes back to the twos to learn some lessons because they ain't getting it in the ones. Durdin and Motlop may have a future, but they certainly aren't showing it in the ones. Won't tackle? Fine, show the desire in the twos. Can't get the zone defence? Fine, learn it in the twos.
I don't think much of Boyd but at least he shows some grit and can kick, moreso than better credentialed players.
Personally I think our top end is good enough but our mid tier is a real issue - their footy IQ is, collectively, very low.
Another serious issue is #9. Great player but when don't have the pill...
Durdin and motlop kicked 4 goals and registered 10 tackles between them against the lions.
Not sure why they're getting targeted for our loss against Brisbane.
Even honey who I thought was pretty ordinary registered 3 tackles.
@Professer E Re Dow, I left out what you said, his instructions should be be "let it rip". Why can we tolerate the rubbish Honey and to a lesser extent Motlop and Durdin dish up every week yet seemingly can't tolerate Dow's supposed shortfalls? It can't be worse. Give the kid a go until the end of the year and then we can put a full stop on it one way or the other.
Durdin and motlop kicked 4 goals and registered 10 tackles between them against the lions.
Not sure why they're getting targeted for our loss against Brisbane.
Even honey who I thought was pretty ordinary registered 3 tackles.
They're not good enough to pick up the slack when talls are down.
Brisbanes Cameron and Bailey kicked 8 goals between them while their talls were ineffectual. They picked up the slack.
If Charlie and H are tied down we are screwed as small forwards simply not good enough to step up.
We either accept mediocrity or gun for a flag.
They're not good enough to pick up the slack when talls are down.
Brisbanes Cameron and Bailey kicked 8 goals between them while their talls were ineffectual. They picked up the slack.
If Charlie and H are tied down we are screwed as small forwards simply not good enough to step up.
We either accept mediocrity or gun for a flag.
Lions capitalised on turnovers.
They got one, their smalls ran out the back, found space and got easy goals. They didn't do much to get those goals, the hard work was done up the ground, they just got on the end of them.
Unfortunately our smalls didn't get the same kind of manic pressure/service as the Lions did. Thats through no fault of their own though.
I can't recall a week that you haven't targetted the small forwards as being 'the problem'.
What is it exactly that you want to see from them that you are not seeing, is it simply goals?
Motlop + Durdin
4 goals, 13 disposals, 10 tackles with 5 of them inside 50.
74% and 79% time on ground.
Cameron+Bailey
8 goals, 24 disposals, 10 tackles with 6 of them inside 50.
87% and 80% time on ground.
FYI, that TOG translates to an extra 18 minutes (9 each) their forwards were on the ground compared to ours.
You forgot goal assists, an important stat.
But they were, based on disposals and goals twice as effective as our two = contributed 24 points more = essentially the margin.
I think it comes down to impact (a hard thing to measure), not just flitting in and out of the game. What are blokes doing when they don't have the ball is the question ? Are they consistently presenting or getting to good positions.... because I'm not the only one who doesn't think they do it often enough.
One of our real problems is consistency, we have no bankable players. For example, Newman was close to BOG for us versus the Giants, yet he stunk on Friday. Why does output vary so much from game to game,?
You forgot goal assists, an important stat.
But they were, based on disposals and goals twice as effective as our two = contributed 24 points more = essentially the margin.
I think it comes down to impact (a hard thing to measure), not just flitting in and out of the game. What are blokes doing when they don't have the ball is the question ? Are they consistently presenting or getting to good positions.... because I'm not the only one who doesn't think they do it often enough.
One of our real problems is consistency, we have no bankable players. For example, Newman was close to BOG for us versus the Giants, yet he stunk on Friday. Why does output vary so much from game to game,?
leading at players and trying to get in dangerous positions whilst our mids kicked it straight at the opposition defenders is my answer.
I'm happy for the smalls to wear some pressure to perform but our team lost through poor decision making and execution.
No point dropping honey when he lead at the footy multiple times only for the next forward entry to hit Charlie or Harry's direct opponent.
I actually don't think they played well but even durdin at one point got out the back and the forward entry to him fell into his defender in front of him, with the end result intercept mark and rebound with durdin having to attempt to take mark of the year over a player twice his size whilst Harry was off getting treatment for a head injury.
They're not good enough to pick up the slack when talls are down.
Brisbanes Cameron and Bailey kicked 8 goals between them while their talls were ineffectual. They picked up the slack.
If Charlie and H are tied down we are screwed as small forwards simply not good enough to step up.
We either accept mediocrity or gun for a flag.
Not sure what relevance the opposition smalls have to ours. They got different delivery from a better performing team.
You know I've waited two days, and I've seen all manner of blunder and bluster about our game Friday night, and not one person has mentioned that where we cost ourselves the most is in footy basics.
We coughed up one goal to Charlie Cameron. Kemp had the ball deep in defence, started to feel heat, dished it off by by hand to acres who wasn't that far away and rather than put body between acres and Cameron, kemp then threw an arm out in the worst attempt to shepherd I've seen, so much so it was completely ineffective when he really should have held it for maybe 2 seconds longer, run closer to the man bearing down and worn the tackle or handed off then shepherded properly, acres doesn't get caught and we don't concede.
This is the stuff that separates us from the best. Not the game plan or the inability to hit targets (IMHO this is choosing the wrong target not execution errors) and I think we could be much cleaner in general and it would reflect better.
We are getting burnt on the turnover because like all teams we are spreading choosing the wrong target then turning it over and aren't quick enough to correct it because of when and where we turn it over.
We aren't actually as bad as everyone thinks, and I reckon we can beat the bulldogs with a correction in execution and no wild fantastic changes required.
You know I've waited two days, and I've seen all manner of blunder and bluster about our game Friday night, and not one person has mentioned that where we cost ourselves the most is in footy basics.
We coughed up one goal to Charlie Cameron. Kemp had the ball deep in defence, started to feel heat, dished it off by by hand to acres who wasn't that far away and rather than put body between acres and Cameron, kemp then threw an arm out in the worst attempt to shepherd I've seen, so much so it was completely ineffective when he really should have held it for maybe 2 seconds longer, run closer to the man bearing down and worn the tackle or handed off then shepherded properly, acres doesn't get caught and we don't concede.
This is the stuff that separates us from the best. Not the game plan or the inability to hit targets (IMHO this is choosing the wrong target not execution errors) and I think we could be much cleaner in general and it would reflect better.
We are getting burnt on the turnover because like all teams we are spreading choosing the wrong target then turning it over and aren't quick enough to correct it because of when and where we turn it over.
We aren't actually as bad as everyone thinks, and I reckon we can beat the bulldogs with a correction in execution and no wild fantastic changes required.
That incident is the difference between someone who plays AFL consistently and someone who is still getting used to the pace of the game.
It was terrible, it should never have happened, i doubt he'll make the same mistake again.
Kemp has performed so well that he has somewhat displaced Young from key post (it helps that TDK is inept as a ruck/KPP and Young is a better option....but we may be going back to Jack soon enough).
You forgot goal assists, an important stat.
But they were, based on disposals and goals twice as effective as our two = contributed 24 points more = essentially the margin.
I think it comes down to impact (a hard thing to measure), not just flitting in and out of the game. What are blokes doing when they don't have the ball is the question ? Are they consistently presenting or getting to good positions.... because I'm not the only one who doesn't think they do it often enough.
One of our real problems is consistency, we have no bankable players. For example, Newman was close to BOG for us versus the Giants, yet he stunk on Friday. Why does output vary so much from game to game,?
Last question first....
Because we are still developing. We are still learning to play together. Kemp, Motlop, Honey, Cincotta, Hollands, Acres all played on the weekend. They have played a total of 84 games in navy blue between them. Add in Durdin, Cerra, Hewitt and we have 9 players who have donned the navy blue a total of 130 times, an average of 14 games.
How well do you reckon they know how eachother plays? Most of them are still trying to work out how to play the game themselves, so how anybody else knows what to expect from them is anybody's guess.
First question next...
Cameron - 2 goal assists, nobody else had any.
If you want to normalise the other stats, that is expand them so they played the same game time, we'd get an extra goal and a few more disposals out of them to even the ledger up a bit.
However, Charlie Cameron is about the best small forward in the game, and we have a few blokes who still need directions on how to get to Marvel stadium they are so fresh by comparison.
Did anyone think that we'd be able to match Charlie Camerons output?
FYI, he is a 4 time leading goalkicker with Brisbane (last 4 years) and is leading theirs this year as well, despite big Joe Daniher up there. He is currently 3rd in the coleman medal behind Jezza Cameron and our own Charlie. He's a former AA. He is top shelf.
Our guys are still finding their feet.
Durdin (21yo) - 29 games
Motlop (19yo) - 19 games
Cameron (28yo) - 183 games
Bailey (23yo) - 101 games
I'm very happy with Durdin and Motlop. They both will be stars.
Sorry, I'm not into hypotheticals or "they would have kicked more if they played the same time on ground", that's speculation.
The raw stats say that yhe other pair kicked twice as many goals plus two goal assists, so they contributed 10 goals as opposed to 4. Ergo they were at least twice as effective as our pair.
Sorry, I'm not into hypotheticals or "they would have kicked more if they played the same time on ground", that's speculation.
The raw stats say that yhe other pair kicked twice as many goals plus two goal assists, so they contributed 10 goals as opposed to 4. Ergo they were at least twice as effective as our pair.
Its not hypothetical, its fact. You can't contribute if you are on the bench.
More time on the ground is more contribution.
Its also not correct to assume that with the 2 goal assists, thats 10 goals. Charlie Cameron may have assisted Bailey twice. Still 8 goals.
But yes, they were more effective. Nobody is trying to tell you otherwise.
One is an AA, best small forward in the game which has been kicking club leading records repeatedly. Has played over 5 times as many games as our 2 players combined.
The other has played 100 games, twice as many games as our players combined and has the luxury of the best opponent going to his teammate every week.
What are you expecting from our 2? To be that good? Not going to happen anytime soon....if at all.
Not many duos in the whole league would be able to deliver the same output at those 2.
Not many other clubs would be disappointed with what we got from our 2 this week.....but here we are.
Not many people have acknowledged that those 2 scored twice as many goals as our 2 coleman medalists combined either.
Its bizarre that they are being singled out because the best duo in the league performed better than them.
Chris Judd was asked on radio if Ablett Jr could just rest down forward and kick 60 goals in the twilight of his career an his response was that small forwards have the hardest job in the game now and it's not where old players go to rest anymore.
No one kicks it to you unless it's a last resort under pressure, you run around chasing defenders who outnumber you to put pressure on even though you really have next to no chance of getting them but you have to do it.
I don't think our small forwards were that bad.
[1] The forward was back to the rafters every time we got the ball inside 50. There was no room to move, and yet they managed 4 goals. Our tall forward couldn't, and they are better players (when they have some chance of getting access).
[2] They appear to have worked harder than the Lions' small forwards did. They had to, as Brisbane put the ball to their forward's advantage far more often than we did. Honestly, the small forwards of the Lions got on the end of other players' good play, they didn't generate anything. had they missed those goals (and it is hard to miss from 3 me out), then they probably would have been dragged for their poor efforts. Our smalls have been dragged for less (and probably deserved it).
[3] Brisbane didn't beat us in the forward line, they beat us in the midfield. Our guys worked hard enough, but when you turn the ball over as much as we do, guys who run to make position are out of position and can't get back to stop disasters. It was how Brisbane scored almost all of their score.
If our small forward were left one out as often the Brisbane ones were because of our turnovers, they could have kicked a lot more goals. Our defensive structures were actually pretty good, and our defenders beat their opponents.
[4] Our small forwards probably do have things to learn. They don't get many goals from crumbs off packs. When a pack forms, the defence almost always gets the ball away. Part of the problem is that our smalls are not that strong or super-quick. Durdin is probably the quickest and he is not express. If our guys were a tad stronger, they could break tackles (like some of the best small do) or they could use their strength to have enough time to get possessions.
Our smalls don't tend to be strong in the air either. They tend to have very few contested marks. The only marks they get are on the lead, and we generally don't look for them on the lead.
Our setups at packs generally don't end up allowing our smalls to get possessions. We need to work on that, so our small are at the fall of the ball when the pack mark is not being made.
[5] Owies will probably be back next week, probably for Honey. I've given up on Honey. He has a number of good traits, but we don't see him marking (he is stronger in the air than we've ever seen from him) and he doesn't get snap goals. He tends to get goals from general play, and runs into them, or from marks where he has a set snot (which he doesn't kick enough).
If Honey is going to remain on our list, he has to move into a different role. He does not have the forward craft to do his present job.
Owies, on the other hand, draws frees, which he kicks if he is close enough (he can't kick 50 m). He does get snap goals and he even sometimes gets goals off the pack. Not a lot, but more than any of our others. His negative game is elite. Very few small forwards work as hard as he does. But he isn't super - strong or super-quick either, but he has other strings to his bow.
[6] None of our forwards, tall, mid or small, kicks accurately enough.
When Jack started he was deadly, especially on the snap. He still kicks more than his share of goals from snaps. It is his set shots that have decayed, and they have decayed badly. After a bad spell he started doing a lot of kicking practice and he had a specific routine for kicking goals. It worked; his percentage went up considerably. He moved away from that routine and that percentage has dropped off.
Mind you, he also tends to have shots from the boundary. He rarely gets a set shot from in front because Charlie gets those balls. Had badly needs to generate a routine again and get his shot percentage up considerably.
H ... what can I say? Kicking has always been his issue. With his kicking style, it probably always will be. But we need to get a kicking coach for him to can fix his issues. After all, Fev was a shocker once. He became deadly. It can be done.
Chris Judd was asked on radio if Ablett Jr could just rest down forward and kick 60 goals in the twilight of his career an his response was that small forwards have the hardest job in the game now and it's not where old players go to rest anymore.
No one kicks it to you unless it's a last resort under pressure, you run around chasing defenders who outnumber you to put pressure on even though you really have next to no chance of getting them but you have to do it.
I wish he were wrong, but small forward needs a special skill set. Eddie Betts had it, but few others do. It is one of the harder positions to play, unless you have a huge presence. None of our smalls do; they do not attract the ball. Our tall forwards have presence.
I don't think our small forwards were that bad.
[1] The forward was back to the rafters every time we got the ball inside 50. There was no room to move, and yet they managed 4 goals. Our tall forward couldn't, and they are better players (when they have some chance of getting access).
[2] They appear to have worked harder than the Lions' small forwards did. They had to, as Brisbane put the ball to their forward's advantage far more often than we did. Honestly, the small forwards of the Lions got on the end of other players' good play, they didn't generate anything. had they missed those goals (and it is hard to miss from 3 me out), then they probably would have been dragged for their poor efforts. Our smalls have been dragged for less (and probably deserved it).
[3] Brisbane didn't beat us in the forward line, they beat us in the midfield. Our guys worked hard enough, but when you turn the ball over as much as we do, guys who run to make position are out of position and can't get back to stop disasters. It was how Brisbane scored almost all of their score.
If our small forward were left one out as often the Brisbane ones were because of our turnovers, they could have kicked a lot more goals. Our defensive structures were actually pretty good, and our defenders beat their opponents.
[4] Our small forwards probably do have things to learn. They don't get many goals from crumbs off packs. When a pack forms, the defence almost always gets the ball away. Part of the problem is that our smalls are not that strong or super-quick. Durdin is probably the quickest and he is not express. If our guys were a tad stronger, they could break tackles (like some of the best small do) or they could use their strength to have enough time to get possessions.
Our smalls don't tend to be strong in the air either. They tend to have very few contested marks. The only marks they get are on the lead, and we generally don't look for them on the lead.
Our setups at packs generally don't end up allowing our smalls to get possessions. We need to work on that, so our small are at the fall of the ball when the pack mark is not being made.
[5] Owies will probably be back next week, probably for Honey. I've given up on Honey. He has a number of good traits, but we don't see him marking (he is stronger in the air than we've ever seen from him) and he doesn't get snap goals. He tends to get goals from general play, and runs into them, or from marks where he has a set snot (which he doesn't kick enough).
If Honey is going to remain on our list, he has to move into a different role. He does not have the forward craft to do his present job.
Owies, on the other hand, draws frees, which he kicks if he is close enough (he can't kick 50 m). He does get snap goals and he even sometimes gets goals off the pack. Not a lot, but more than any of our others. His negative game is elite. Very few small forwards work as hard as he does. But he isn't super - strong or super-quick either, but he has other strings to his bow.
[6] None of our forwards, tall, mid or small, kicks accurately enough.
When Jack started he was deadly, especially on the snap. He still kicks more than his share of goals from snaps. It is his set shots that have decayed, and they have decayed badly. After a bad spell he started doing a lot of kicking practice and he had a specific routine for kicking goals. It worked; his percentage went up considerably. He moved away from that routine and that percentage has dropped off.
Mind you, he also tends to have shots from the boundary. He rarely gets a set shot from in front because Charlie gets those balls. Had badly needs to generate a routine again and get his shot percentage up considerably.
H ... what can I say? Kicking has always been his issue. With his kicking style, it probably always will be. But we need to get a kicking coach for him to can fix his issues. After all, Fev was a shocker once. He became deadly. It can be done.
Owies is currently the forward on our list who I think converts the best from his opportunities. I'd be staggered to find out his set shot percentage is probably the best of our forwards and usually converts very well like you said within range.
There is an interesting article in The Age online which states:
"The theory has been you stop Paddy Cripps and you stop Carlton. And it is true to an extent.
The other part to the newer theory is that, presently, you can rely on Carlton to do the job for you. Carlton helps stop Carlton.........their ball use is dreadful for a side with pretensions to the finals."
It also adds that Carlton gave up 85 points from turnovers against Brisbane, and if you exclude the West Coast game we are bottom 3 with North and West Coast for points conceded from turnovers.
No wonder the supporters are restless.
Or small forwards have been horrible ever since the three amigos were at their peak... we have not had an effective small forward lne and we have neglected it until recently and still needs alot of work.
Worth remembering that Brisbane went out and bought Charlie Cameron. Adelaide did the same when Eddie Betts left us. If you want an elite forward, perhaps go and get one and be prepared to pay.
There is an interesting article in The Age online which states:
"The theory has been you stop Paddy Cripps and you stop Carlton. And it is true to an extent.
The other part to the newer theory is that, presently, you can rely on Carlton to do the job for you. Carlton helps stop Carlton.........their ball use is dreadful for a side with pretensions to the finals."
It also adds that Carlton gave up 85 points from turnovers against Brisbane, and if you exclude the West Coast game we are bottom 3 with North and West Coast for points conceded from turnovers.
No wonder the supporters are restless.
It was a pretty accurate article and hard to argue with.
Michael Gleeson also wrote in that article in The Age... ('they' refers to BrisVegas)... "They knew the numbers pointed to Carlton turning the ball over
under pressure, and they ratcheted up the way they hunted the man with the ball. They closed down space, then they closed down the exit options and forced the Carlton player into panicked error. Their plan worked."
In other words, 'soft' ...mentally. Or simply clueless at responding to pressure with even more of our own. Reactive, not proactive.
The leaders at our club sure do talk the talk. Walking the talk is another matter, entirely.
Under pressure!
It's something that's overlooked a bit when discussing player skills.
I reckon some of our worst users of the ball could probably drop a football into a garbage bin from thirty metres on a training track...with no pressure. ;D
But put them under match pressure and they all have a different level of tolerance to that pressure.
When there is little pressure those skill deficiencies aren't as apparent (see the West Coast game).
When the pressure is really on some players stand up...others don't, to varying degrees.
It's when the skill deficiencies are found out...and we still have quite a few.
Used to be "stop Judd, stop Carlton". Now it's "Stop Cripps...". Seems to be working.
Used to be "stop Judd, stop Carlton". Now it's "Stop Cripps...". Seems to be working.
After watching the replay, I'd assert Dunkley and Cripps had a pretty good head to head but Dunkley was clearly more involved in chains of play as we would expect given the leg speed difference. In this regard it was quite similar to the Cripps / Kelly head to heads.
However, because Dunkley was a suitable one on one match and could go solo versus Cripps, that allowed the Lions to double team Walsh who then struggled to find his usual time and space. That left us with two prime midfield movers being ineffective.
The mistake might have been that Kennedy probably should have started rather than be sub, because with Kennedy out there adding to Cripps, Walsh, Hewett and Cerra we had greater midfield depth. I suppose nobody predicted Dunkley would get the better of or break even with Cripps.
Hopefully it's a lesson learned for our MC, we gave up an advantage we potentially had with Zorko going out, and turned it into an even battle which we lost.
As strange as it may seem I'm quite confident we'll account for the Dishlickers this Saturday night.
The season is far from over and provided we work on being proactive re going after our opponents strengths, then tidy up our disposal and have a more aggressive/offensive mindset then we're better than a good chance.
We've also got to address the form of Weiters, Young, H and Crippa.
I can't imagine that behind closed doors Vossy is as cool as his media conferences post game might suggest.
Boyd will probably come in for Newey (who was incredibly frustrated with some of the efforts of his team mates). Then Cottrell should come in for Honey or Dutchy. Either way, Honey must go back to the Magoos. Dutchy really needs to work on his disposal by foot. I'm guessing that our meek MC will probably bring back Fisher.
We've also got to address the form of Weiters, Young, H and Crippa.
When we heard about what Weiters has been through, did fans actually think his on field form would escape free of harm?
We need to lift him up, give him some personal wins, let his confidence return!
If I was coaching I'd try my best to artificially create a scenario for him to hit the scoreboard and have the team get around him in celebration.
I want to know whats gone wrong with Young, his confidence looks shot, has he got fitness, personal issues....?
So H gets whacked high, accidentally of course, but I assume a player is going to be cited because the head is sacrosanct? Or is it more MRO chooklotto?
The mistake might have been that Kennedy probably should have started rather than be sub, because with Kennedy out there adding to Cripps, Walsh, Hewett and Cerra we had greater midfield depth. I suppose nobody predicted Dunkley would get the better of or break even with Cripps.
My thoughts too. Kennedy has his limitations but he offers midfield depth that is lacking if Cripps is not able to dominate and he is a very good converter when resting forward.
We've also got to address the form of Weiters
Boyd will probably come in for Newey (who was incredibly frustrated with some of the efforts of his team mates).
Then Cottrell should come in for Honey or Dutchy.
Either way, Honey must go back to the Magoos. Dutchy really needs to work on his disposal by foot.
I'm guessing that our meek MC will probably bring back Fisher.
I thought Weitering played quite well - apart from the couple of horrendous turnovers. I think he has suffered since Jones departed because they used to interchange to allow Weiters to spend more time at HB, where he was a good distributor. These days he seems to be anchored deeper in the back line and largely limited to a negative role.
Boyd played okay in the VFL but should be a suitable replacement as he is a decent kick and not hesitant about putting his body on the line.
I watched Dow closely in the VFL game and thought he had perfected a couple of undesirable skills - firstly, the skill to get the ball and hurriedly kick it across his body without looking - secondly, the skill of displaying fast hands to get rid of the 'hot potato' and giving teammates the problem of trying to handle it. He can stay in the VFL for mine. Unfortunately, Jack Carroll wasn't much better with far fewer possessions.
Cottrell put both of them to shame and is a definite must inclusion - at least as the sub. In the VFL, he showed something that so many of the current AFL team has been missing - he can kick the ball effectively AND he repeatedly steadied (at pace) and had a look where to kick it to place it to advantage.
I think Owies kicked 4 goals 4 behinds (mostly from set shots) with 2 of the misses very narrow. He needs to be back in the AFL team.
Honey is fast but only in a straight line and that is not good enough for the AFL - unless he is played in a position that doesn't require him to change direction - maybe he could evolve into a Brad Pearce type of leading forward - not sure he has many other options.
Fisher did a couple of useful things early in the VFL game because he showed dash before he momentarily steadied to kick the ball perfectly to the advantage of teammates on multiple occasions. Regretably, later in the game when tiring or under pressure, he reverted to his usual wayward turnover kicks.
Mirkov is developing into a possibility as a tap ruckman and reminds me a lot of Justin Madden in the way he moves but has to do much more around the ground to be considered for AFL selection unless we are very desperate.
Lemmey showed nothing other than needing much more development. Binns has some nice skills but is a lightweight and probably less value than Boyd at this stage.
Cottrell put both of them to shame and is a definite must inclusion - at least as the sub. In the VFL, he showed something that so many of the current AFL team has been missing - he can kick the ball effectively AND he repeatedly steadied (at pace) and had a look where to kick it to place it to advantage.
That's what stood out for me compared to some of the others, and it's why I think he deserves a senior run...'composure'
Not rushed... careful, deliberate and effective.
That's what stood out for me compared to some of the others, and it's why I think he deserves a senior run...'composure'
Not rushed... careful, deliberate and effective.
He's a redhead and an elite runner, so higher than average pain tolerance and across a game less fatigue, it goes a long way when looking for some composure under pressure.
It's very hard to stay calm if you feel like you are gasping your last breath, some of our blokes are flat out just trying to catch up, and that is what comes from having too many one paced types!
As much as I like the long term look of Motlop, he lacks run, and that deficit then gets loaded onto others around him. When Fisher went out, good or bad form, we lost run by replacing him with Motlop. Durdin, SoJ, Honey, Walsh, Acres, all of the players in wing or flank rotations had to cover extra ground.
No Treloar apparently and Ugle-Hagan has to pass a fitness test.
I'm not sure I can watch another rubbish effort from our mob, in fact I'm so disillusioned right now that I'm close to putting the cue in the rack for 2023.
I'm not sure I can watch another rubbish effort from our mob, in fact I'm so disillusioned right now that I'm close to putting the cue in the rack for 2023.
@LordLucifer Better get your eyes checked, it's a fork not a queue, potting must be a real problem but the break would be spectacular!
Owies, Kennedy, Boyd (or Cowan) and Cottrell in for me for Newman (assuming suspension stays), Honey, Hollands (needs a rest) and Ed.....Dow as the sub. Might even need to get TDK back in there against English and Lobb.
Might even need to get TDK back in there against English and Lobb.
Assuming he is not injured I suspect Young will stay in to cover the space needed by Lobb and English as they push forward.
TDK is not your D50 type, he works at the other end, but if he does come in he will free up Pitto to close up space.
@LordLucifer Better get your eyes checked, it's a fork not a queue, potting must be a real problem but the break would be spectacular!
*groan*
Members and supporters made a statement Friday on what we believe is an acceptable minimal standard and failed to deliver against the Lions - hope these softies dont make the same mistake twice.
Last 6 results against the dogs
2022 - W 102 to 90
2021 - L 107 to 91
2020 - W 103 to 51
2019 - L 103 to 100
2019 - W 101 to 57
2018 - L 66 to 49
Don't like the pattern. Hope we can break the cycle
I am tipping Bulldogs 101 to Blues 75.
Owies, Kennedy, Boyd (or Cowan) and Cottrell in for me for Newman (assuming suspension stays), Honey, Hollands (needs a rest) and Ed.....Dow as the sub. Might even need to get TDK back in there against English and Lobb.
A friend of mine sent me a message today.
"How the hell am i supposed to tip your game this week?"
As if i've got an answer to that!
I responded with something like the following.
If we pick TDK, don't pick us.
If we pick Honey, don't pick us.
If we pick Kennedy as the sub again, don't pick us.
If any of the above happen, we have learned nothing.
We have been too slow, too tall and picking too many non-contributors.
We need to fix these things at the selection table if we want to move forward.
Will we win if all of the above goes the way i suggest? Who the hell knows, but it will certainly help.
TDK has played 5 games for 3 wins, 1 loss and a draw.
TDK has played 5 games for 3 wins, 1 loss and a draw.
....and?
Its not about him, its about team balance....and if we include him, we sacrifice team balance.
Pittonet has shown that with backups of Young and McKay (and SOJ if we need) we lose nothing in the midfield.
Alternatively, if we play TDK, we lose a spot on the bench and a midfield rotation.....which given we are struggling with sustained pressure, we could use every bit we can get.
TDK doesn't improve the side.
Honey doesn't improve the side.
Kennedy does.
I'd tip against us this week.
The dogs don't have to bring their best to beat us at the moment, but we have to bring our best effort to get a win.
I actually think we will win, but I suspect we probably won't.
Newmy free to play, charge thrown out.
Agree, Thry. I don't bet, but if I did, I'd stay well away from this game.
It has been a long time since Carlton supporters have gone into a game like this with confidence.
I think it is very winnable - we just have to play better than we have been.
Newmy free to play, charge thrown out.
Our record at the tribunal looks pretty good. W W
I'd tip against us this week.
The dogs don't have to bring their best to beat us at the moment, but we have to bring our best effort to get a win.
I actually think we will win, but I suspect we probably won't.
Not confident on this game at all. It is true that our best efforts, and high intensity sets up a win. However our lack of composure for four quarters and hard efforts will see a 2 to 3 goal loss. Just an opinion.
So basically...we have to wait and see which Carlton turns up.
And that's the heart of the problem. :(
So basically...we have to wait and see which Carlton turns up.
And that's the heart of the problem. :(
Just stop our errors!
Simples ;D
So basically...we have to wait and see which Carlton turns up.
Not really, same 23 (more or less) as last week who struggle under pressure.
Owies may be the solution to our small forward problem. He runs hard and applies pressure. He also seems to make Durdin and Motlop play better. He’s never really been a favourite of mine but absence makes the heart grow fonder. If he does show on his return that he’s the secret ingredient, I’ll turn full on fanboy.
So basically...we have to wait and see which Carlton turns up.
And that's the heart of the problem. :(
Are we learning and improving? Another exciting chance to find out. Place your bets gentlefolk.
Agreed Mav...I think he was going at about 2 goals per game early in the season before the injury. Definite in this week.
Durdin and motlop kicked 4 goals and registered 10 tackles between them against the lions.
Not sure why they're getting targeted for our loss against Brisbane.
They are also 20 and 19yrs old...... let stop comparing them to Papley and Cameron, for now, hey???
They are also 20 and 19yrs old...... let stop comparing them to Papley and Cameron, for now, hey???
I understand, but I didn't notice Walsh's age being an excuse for a lack of work rate or a reluctance to compete physically. Sure we get Walsh is exceptional, but making the effort whether the outcome is good or bad seems not negotiable.
I can understand being lost in traffic, needing to gain experience in the hustle and bustle of AFL, but I can't see a reason for people who have been in the AFL system for a year or more lacking a work ethic on game day.
The AFL media lambasted Newman for giving up the chase against Cameron, actually surrounded by multiple opponents he had zero hope of catching Cameron. Go and watch Motlop he doesn't chase against people he can actually catch!
Puzzling … you read the bit about Owies making them better rather than replacing them? That’s like saying that It’s wrong to say Jeremy Cameron plays better when Hawkins is up and about (as they force defenders to decide who to cover).
Our record at the tribunal looks pretty good. W W
Isn't it something like:
TDK fine W
Acres L
H W
Mots L
Newmy W
In that case, our Tribunal record is the same as our record against the Dogs!
Agreed Mav...I think he was going at about 2 goals per game early in the season before the injury. Definite in this week.
It's not just that, Owies has a team first work ethic, he makes players around him better, he covers for team-mates over the full playing field and makes the effort to compete with any opponent of any size. Basically, when Owies was up and about our opposition had to work harder, and that benefits everybody we have out there!
The AFL media lambasted Newman for giving up the chase against Cameron, actually surrounded by multiple opponents he had zero hope of catching Cameron. Go and watch Motlop he doesn't chase against people he can actually catch!
The same can be said of C.Curnow and Z.Fisher
Second efforts and desperation are everything these days.
The AFL media lambasted Newman for giving up the chase against Cameron, actually surrounded by multiple opponents he had zero hope of catching Cameron. Go and watch Motlop he doesn't chase against people he can actually catch!
I don't think Newey gave up the chase on Cameron, I think he gave up in disgust at how easy it got to Cameron and how little support there was for him and how little pressure up the field there was to create the Cameron opportunity in the first place.
I don't think Newey gave up the chase on Cameron, I think he gave up in disgust at how easy it got to Cameron and how little support there was for him and how little pressure up the field there was to create the Cameron opportunity in the first place.
Indeed. That was how I saw it.
Last 6 results against the dogs
2022 - W 102 to 90
2021 - L 107 to 91
2020 - W 103 to 51
2019 - L 103 to 100
2019 - W 101 to 57
2018 - L 66 to 49
Don't like the pattern. Hope we can break the cycle
First one in 2019 we were on the bottom, winless. 2021 we led by 27pts near 3/4 time, so we were on top for much of the game (until we fcuked up). Even when we were utterly crap we caused them issues.
They've been embarrassed so much this week in the media so I'm am guessing we see good Carlton this week, the one that fronted up against Geelong in R2, and flog them. Then the week after we will likely see bad Carlton against Collingwood and be thoroughly deflated again.
Players need to get their heads out of their buttholes because it's a simple game plan.
1. Brutal in the contest
2. Hard running defensive transitioning
3. When offensive transitioning from defence hold up the ball and look for corridor and put speed on the ball.
4. On turn over put speed on the ball.
Mids have little cohesion - coaches leaving Kennedy out makes no sense when he brings brutality to the game plan
Small forwards ineffectual and not up to AFL standard or too young either way they are not good enough for AFL football other than maybe Owies and Motlop.
Skill execution from players that think they are at a high plain than the game itself need a good hard look at themselves.. this isn't about your personal performance pal its about the team
I don't think Newey gave up the chase on Cameron, I think he gave up in disgust at how easy it got to Cameron and how little support there was for him and how little pressure up the field there was to create the Cameron opportunity in the first place.
Common sense says that you don’t expend energy on a futile chase … and Newman had Buckley’s hope of getting within 5 metres of Cameron before he kicked on the goal line. However, it’s not a good look to be so demonstrative about giving up. I suspect that Newey will have watched that footage several times and will have a different approach next time.
It's not just that, Owies has a team first work ethic, he makes players around him better, he covers for team-mates over the full playing field and makes the effort to compete with any opponent of any size. Basically, when Owies was up and about our opposition had to work harder, and that benefits everybody we have out there!
Owies gets some leeway because he was a Cat B rookie. He is generally a good finisher and he does occasionally find space in our forward line but, like Motlop and Durdin, he’s a hell of a way off the likes of Picket, Bolton, Cameron, Breust, Papley, and Stengle … and his work off the ball is no better than that of Motlop and Durdin.
I’d have Owies in my 22 before Honey but he doesn’t offer any more than Motlop or Durdin … and nowhere near what the elite small forwards provide.
Owies gets some leeway because he was a Cat B rookie. He is generally a good finisher and he does occasionally find space in our forward line but, like Motlop and Durdin, he’s a hell of a way off the likes of Picket, Bolton, Cameron, Breust, Papley, and Stengle … and his work off the ball is no better than that of Motlop and Durdin.
I’d have Owies in my 22 before Honey but he doesn’t offer any more than Motlop or Durdin … and nowhere near what the elite small forwards provide.
My thoughts exactly. In our desperation to strengthen our forward line we seem to have unreal expectations of what Owies can provide.
In the teams above us he would be lucky to get a game.
Common sense says that you don’t expend energy on a futile chase … and Newman had Buckley’s hope of getting within 5 metres of Cameron before he kicked on the goal line. However, it’s not a good look to be so demonstrative about giving up. I suspect that Newey will have watched that footage several times and will have a different approach next time.
Understand, but I see it a little differently. Newey is a passionate player and I believe he loves the place and it's because he's so committed that his emotions will spill over from time to time. Yep, not a good look and he'd no doubt agree... but it does, in exasperation and desperation, send a message to his team mates.
I don't think Newey gave up the chase on Cameron, I think he gave up in disgust at how easy it got to Cameron and how little support there was for him and how little pressure up the field there was to create the Cameron opportunity in the first place.
The mindset of giving up starts well before the contest. A desperate player would have made more of an effort to not concede a goal. The result may have been the same but his team mates would have appreciated an effort.
The mindset of giving up starts well before the contest. A desperate player would have made more of an effort to not concede a goal. The result may have been the same but his team mates would have appreciated an effort.
Perhaps so, but he demonstrated his frustration which he may never do again. I'm not excusing or justifying his actions, just explaining and cutting him some slack considering the circumstances.
I don't think Newey gave up the chase on Cameron, I think he gave up in disgust at how easy it got to Cameron and how little support there was for him and how little pressure up the field there was to create the Cameron opportunity in the first place.
But that didn't stop the media making an example of Newman.
My point to Carlton fans is don't listen to the media about Newman, and do not ignore the very same or worst act from Motlop or Durdin, those two SFs actually have the pace to catch someone over as short distance! The missing effort is the difference for those SFs to go from a goal a game to closer to 2 goals a game, it is the difference between a pass mark and actually being influential.
Interesting to compare the season averages:
Owies - 2 goals and 1.3 tackles with 0.3 tackles inside 50
Durdin - 1.3 goals and 4.1 tackles with 1.6 tackles inside 50
Motlop - 1.1 goals and 3.3 tackles with 1.7 tackles inside 50
Charlie Cameron - 3.2 goals and 3.5 tackles with 2.1 tackles inside 50
If Charlie's the benchmark, Durdin and Motlop aren't too far off the pace defensively but their scoreboard impact is way down. The Doggies' defenders won't be having nightmares about our small forwards.
My thoughts exactly. In our desperation to strengthen our forward line we seem to have unreal expectations of what Owies can provide.
In the teams above us he would be lucky to get a game.
He does very regularly hit the scoreboard, alot more than other small forwards we've had.. He'd get a game in other sides. Probably play better not being at Carlton....lol. He's underrated.
Interesting to compare the season averages:
Owies - 2 goals and 1.3 tackles with 0.3 tackles inside 50
Durdin - 1.3 goals and 4.1 tackles with 1.6 tackles inside 50
Motlop - 1.1 goals and 3.3 tackles with 1.7 tackles inside 50
Charlie Cameron - 3.2 goals and 3.5 tackles with 2.1 tackles inside 50
If Charlie's the benchmark, Durdin and Motlop aren't too far off the pace defensively but their scoreboard impact is way down. The Doggies' defenders won't be having nightmares about our small forwards.
2 goals a game, which would be 46 goals if theoretically pushed out to 23 games. Nice!!! Only a 3 game sample though although subbed off in one.
Actually it is 1.3 tackles a game this year, which included a subbed off game, and a 3.2 tackles over his career.
The debate over the small forwards is a bit odd. No one is claiming Owies will win a Brownlow or get into the AA team. And sure, our small forwards as a group aren’t currently the envy of other sides. But you work with what you’ve got. The last offseason saw us prioritising wingers even though I thought we needed to find a crumbing goalsneak and a quick midfielder to add pace to the midfield. But you can’t fill all the holes in one offseason.
It used to be that the best crumbing smalls were found in the bargain basement. Eddie Betts, Stephen Milne and Tom Papley all came through the rookie draft (and remember we almost nabbed Papley in the manoeuvrings surrounding Joe Daniher). These days, the best goalsneaks are drafted early: Rankine (pick 3), Rachele (pick 5) and Pickett (pick 12). The best small forward in the coming draft, Nick Watson, is predicted to be a top 5 pick (despite being only 168-170cm and a bit of a flog). So you can’t just go down to the corner milk bar and buy a genuine goal kicking small anymore (to use a Paganism).
So we have to make do with what we have for the foreseeable future. Playing Motlop, Durdin and Owies together enables them to complement each others’ strengths. Durdin is the fast guy who’s best at snaps. Motlop is the best footballer although not blessed with great pace. And Owies seems to be the hardest running of the lot which enables him to run deep into F50 after running up the ground. He’s also a good mark and set shot, though I don’t see him as a great snap at goals.
The debate over the small forwards is a bit odd. No one is claiming Owies will win a Brownlow or get into the AA team. And sure, our small forwards as a group aren’t currently the envy of other sides. But you work with what you’ve got. The last offseason saw us prioritising wingers even though I thought we needed to find a crumbing goalsneak and a quick midfielder to add pace to the midfield. But you can’t fill all the holes in one offseason.
It used to be that the best crumbing smalls were found in the bargain basement. Eddie Betts, Stephen Milne and Tom Papley all came through the rookie draft (and remember we almost nabbed Papley in the manoeuvrings surrounding Joe Daniher). These days, the best goalsneaks are drafted early: Rankine (pick 3), Rachele (pick 5) and Pickett (pick 12). The best small forward in the coming draft, Nick Watson, is predicted to be a top 5 pick (despite being only 168-170cm and a bit of a flog). So you can’t just go down to the corner milk bar and buy a genuine goal kicking small anymore (to use a Paganism).
So we have to make do with what we have for the foreseeable future. Playing Motlop, Durdin and Owies together enables them to complement each others’ strengths. Durdin is the fast guy who’s best at snaps. Motlop is the best footballer although not blessed with great pace. And Owies seems to be the hardest running of the lot which enables him to run deep into F50 after running up the ground. He’s also a good mark and set shot, though I don’t see him as a great snap at goals.
No we dont, we need to improve on what we have and what we have is an inferior C grade set up that lacks at least one A grade small forward. No one expects three champions either but at the moment if Charlie and Harry dont hit the scoreboard then it is pretty much game over for us given our small forwards and mids give us very few goals.
This is what List Managers get paid to do and if Austin cant do it then he needs to be moved on........
Geelong got Stengle for nothing because they took a calculated gamble and then resourced that area to coach and settle the kid.
We over did the wingers imo last season and should have looked at smaller forwards, the other area we lack is that mid size 188-190cm marking forward like Fritsch from Melbourne, StKilda now have one in Philipou and Geelong of course have had Rohan to compliment their two big forwards for years now.
But unless we can and do take someone in the mid season draft, we do have to make do with what we’ve got until this season is over. And we should only bring in another small forward by trade or in the draft if he’s clearly better than what we’ve got. We don’t want to recycle delisted players in the hope we can find a diamond in the rough (spoiler alert: our development of players is hardly elite). If there’s a good small forward who’ll be out of contract at the end of the year, maybe we could do what we did with Acres as we can certainly promise that there will be a spot in the seniors. The only problem with that is that maybe TdK ends up as a delisted free agent but we lose the considerable compensation we’d receive (as happened when Eddie left and we picked up Daisy).
Mav....not sure we have a pick currently in the mid-season draft? We'd have to get a long term injury before the cut-off or indefinitely rule out one of the already injured blokes....Williams has already been put on that list. Maybe get Cunningham or Marchbank to belt out a few laps and I'm sure one of them will go down again.
But unless we can and do take someone in the mid season draft, we do have to make do with what we’ve got until this season is over. And we should only bring in another small forward by trade or in the draft if he’s clearly better than what we’ve got. We don’t want to recycle delisted players in the hope we can find a diamond in the rough (spoiler alert: our development of players is hardly elite). If there’s a good small forward who’ll be out of contract at the end of the year, maybe we could do what we did with Acres as we can certainly promise that there will be a spot in the seniors. The only problem with that is that maybe TdK ends up as a delisted free agent but we lose the considerable compensation we’d receive (as happened when Eddie left and we picked up Daisy).
Not sure who is available in the mid season draft but its really only a choice from the State Leagues so unless there is a standout performer its very speculative. TDk's value needs to be maximised for sure, according to Cook we are hitting the draft so any future trades will also have to be of the Acres moneyball variety which limits choices.
Mav....not sure we have a pick currently in the mid-season draft? We'd have to get a long term injury before the cut-off or indefinitely rule out one of the already injured blokes....Williams has already been put on that list. Maybe get Cunningham or Marchbank to belt out a few laps and I'm sure one of them will go down again.
If we can, put both on "gardening leave", tell them they are done with us, put them on the LTI and get in replacements that are able to walk to the fridge and take out the bins out without getting hurt. Nuffs enuff FFS.
In: M.Cottrell, M.Owies
Out: B.Kemp (omitted), J.Honey (omitted), E.Curnow (omitted)
Last week's sub: Matt Kennedy
Kemp stiff. Hopefully he is sub.
In: M.Cottrell, M.Owies
Out: B.Kemp (omitted), J.Honey (omitted), E.Curnow (omitted)
Last week's sub: Matt Kennedy
What? No Fisher? Where's Fisher? He did his 1 weeks penance in the 2's, where's Fisher? 😂😂
Happy with the selections this week but if TDK is fit would have been a better option IMO against a very mobile ruckmen in English.
Pit will need to be on his game around the ground and not keep giving away those clumsy frees.
Kennedy half back flank!!! Is it April Fool's Day!!
We need Cripps and/or Kennedy to push forward as marking targets and hit the scoreboard. Cottrell and Owies hopefully add a bit of bite.
Kemp is an ideal sub.
Kemp is an ideal sub.
You would think it has to be the reason.
What? No Fisher? Where's Fisher? He did his 1 weeks penance in the 2's, where's Fisher? 😂😂
Gone Fishing, hopefully.
Happy with the selections this week but if TDK is fit would have been a better option IMO against a very mobile ruckmen in English.
Still out with concussion according to the website.
In: M.Cottrell, M.Owies
Out: B.Kemp (omitted), J.Honey (omitted), E.Curnow (omitted)
Last week's sub: Matt Kennedy
That's better. Looking good on paper. Kennedy named on the HBF... FO. Cincotta HBF, Kennedy rotated mid, thank you.
Kemp stiff. Hopefully he is sub.
It would be a travesty if he wasn’t!
He is versatile enough to come on and make a decent contribution as a sub for medical or tactical reasons.
Hope Charlie kicks a bag on that tosser Jones. Worried about the ruck. I hope Young doesn't get used as the number 2. Think that has impacted his game significantly. Poor old JSOS to carry the load. Otherwise happy with the ins and outs. Interesting that Honey didn't even land in the emergencies. He'd been playing so well ::)
A friend of mine sent me a message today.
"How the hell am i supposed to tip your game this week?"
As if i've got an answer to that!
I responded with something like the following.
If we pick TDK, don't pick us.
If we pick Honey, don't pick us.
If we pick Kennedy as the sub again, don't pick us.
If any of the above happen, we have learned nothing.
We have been too slow, too tall and picking too many non-contributors.
We need to fix these things at the selection table if we want to move forward.
Will we win if all of the above goes the way i suggest? Who the hell knows, but it will certainly help.
Well i got my wish.
Now as long as Kemp (or Curnow) is the sub, i think it gives us the best chance of winning.
Curnow because i think its a good idea to rotate through the mids (as in Kennedy previously) although i think he has been underperforming so happy to give him a week off.
and
Kemp because he is a good sub to have as he can play multiple roles.......and it allows gives us a replacement if we lose a ruck. That is, he can cover Young down back who can take the ruck.
Kemp out? He was a lot more solid than Young!
He is hard done by.
Kemp the sub?
Meanwhile how did Van Rooyen get off that and blokes get done for tackles?
Kemp the sub?
Meanwhile how did Van Rooyen get off that and blokes get done for tackles?
Because people dont apply common sense or use their eyes
Kemp the sub?
Not a bad option, can play forward or back.
Bit worried about Pitto solo versus English, English will potentially run Pitto into the ground if we don't get the load sharing correct. Young might need to be up for a big game, I note TDK is missing again this week with concussion protocols!
I note TDK is missing again this week with concussion protocols drinking with Geelong players whilst injured protocols!
EFA
EFA
In fairness, the club's official statement is concussion protocols, what we or others think doesn't mean much.
In any case, didn't the concussion in the VFL come after the alleged incident?
In fairness, the club's official statement is concussion protocols, what we or others think doesn't mean much.
In any case, didn't the concussion in the VFL come after the alleged incident?
Order of events as follows:
1. TDK rested/managed
2. TDK thinks its smart to go down the coast drinking with his brother and many Geelong players whilst being "managed".
3. Club plays him the reserves, following drinking incident which the club were apparently told about, and gets what appears to be the slightest knock.
4. Ruled out with concession for the last 2 weeks.
So he has "concussion", I also think there are other reasons and right now, I'm leaning towards him being elsewhere next year.
I’m pretty sure he wasn’t selected in the side to play the Dogs, so he’s not really germane to the preview.
I’m pretty sure he wasn’t selected in the side to play the Dogs, so he’s not really germane to the preview.
Who TDK? He played v the dogs, that's where he got the knock.
I’m pretty sure he wasn’t selected in the side to play the Dogs, so he’s not really germane to the preview.
True by the "Carlton Ruck Setup vs English" debate is germaine, given English is one of the current AFL rucks on a hot streak.
True by the "Carlton Ruck Setup vs English" debate is germaine, given English is one of the current AFL rucks on a hot streak.
And, unlike our rucks, English causes problems when he goes forward. Hopefully, Jack won’t be his opponent when he does go forward.
kennedy our new hero ,i cant see this he just another slow mid , only plays well when the team does but against good opposition he is EXPOSED
kennedy our new hero ,i cant see this he just another slow mid , only plays well when the team does but against good opposition he is EXPOSED
I like Kennedy but its become more obvious we have one too many of the slow moving mids vs some teams and need another mid who has some leg speed to give us some breakaway ability at stoppages. Kennedy can play forward with success and I still think he is a valuable player who can be used to multitask a bit more. As I have said many times for a different look down forward I wouldnt mind if we ran with one tall and Kennedy as that second leading target every now and then.
I like Kennedy but its become more obvious we have one too many of the slow moving mids vs some teams and need another mid who has some leg speed to give us some breakaway ability at stoppages.
A couple of games this season our main problem has been the opposition HBF or HFF coming into bounces in sweeper type roles, and we are getting not much from our own HBF or HFF. Our guys on the perimeter must be prepared to sacrifice to cover for our Mids when we do not have things going our way! Some of it might be our guys not playing the footy that is in front of them, they second guess and guess wrong.
I noted it was a particular problem when Doc was moved into the Midfield and we have someone like Ed or Cowan off the HBF, or when Motlop is on the HFF sitting forward of the contest and not getting involved.
A couple of games this season our main problem has been the opposition HBF or HFF coming into bounces in sweeper type roles, and we are getting not much from our own HBF or HFF. Our guys on the perimeter must be prepared to sacrifice to cover for our Mids when we do not have things going our way! Some of it might be our guys not playing the footy that is in front of them, they second guess and guess wrong.
I noted it was a particular problem when Doc was moved into the Midfield and we have someone like Ed or Cowan off the HBF, or when Motlop is on the HFF sitting forward of the contest and not getting involved.
That sweeper role usually falls to Doc ... when he's playing in defence.
A couple of games this season our main problem has been the opposition HBF or HFF coming into bounces in sweeper type roles, and we are getting not much from our own HBF or HFF. Our guys on the perimeter must be prepared to sacrifice to cover for our Mids when we do not have things going our way!
I noted it was a particular problem when Doc was moved into the Midfield and we have someone like Ed or Cowan off the HBF, or when Motlop is on the HFF sitting forward of the contest and not getting involved.
Fully agree.......imo you always have to even up the numbers and those players not doing anything have to be told to follow their man so they dont have that extra on the outside to run the ball through.
Lyon likes to do it with Sinclair and or course Nick Daicos has never manned up a half forward in his life as a defender because he is always that extra onballer/sweeper drifting down from half back.
Lyon likes to do it with Sinclair and or course Nick Daicos has never manned up a half forward in his life as a defender because he is always that extra onballer/sweeper drifting down from half back.
I'm hope we see a bit of a change with Cottrell and Owies coming in this week, we at least know those two will have a crack at whatever is in front of them.
PS; I use to fear the repercussions of dropping Ed, the long term future of Charlie if Ed was dropped or delisted, but not anymore. After listening to Ed talk about the type of as5@h@l#s that it seems some of Charlies alleged suitors are, we've nothing to fear at all! These opponents that want to poach our players have painted us as sh1t, some of them quite actively doing so through unsolicited comment, but it seems compared to them as a club we've come up smelling like roses despite the coverage in the media!
I'm hope we see a bit of a change with Cottrell and Owies coming in this week, we at least know those two will have a crack at whatever is in front of them.
PS; I use to fear the repercussions of dropping Ed, the long term future of Charlie if Ed was dropped or delisted, but not anymore. After listening to Ed talk about the type of as5@h@l#s that it seems some of Charlies alleged suitors are, we've nothing to fear at all! These opponents that want to poach our players have painted us as sh1t, some of them quite actively doing so through unsolicited comment, but it seems compared to them as a club we've come up smelling like roses despite the coverage in the media!
Charlie is signed up until 2029. Not even Tassie can pry him away from us without paying huge at the trade table.
Ed i think is 50-50 to be the sub, (he or Kemp IMO)
As the game draws near, I certainly can't remember a time when we've copped such an intense pile-on from the media. Literally every day since last Friday night. Every outlet has had a crack from every angle. Past coaches, players and now high profile benefactors have had their say. I guess now the only ones left to have a crack are the players themselves and I hope they do but I wont be going to the game. I've seen this movie too many times in the past and the finale has always been so bitterly disappointing. Best of luck to the lads.
As the game draws near, I certainly can't remember a time when we've copped such an intense pile-on from the media. Literally every day since last Friday night. Every outlet has had a crack from every angle. Past coaches, players and now high profile benefactors have had their say. I guess now the only ones left to have a crack are the players themselves and I hope they do but I wont be going to the game. I've seen this movie too many times in the past and the finale has always been so bitterly disappointing. Best of luck to the lads.
Yes, it seems that there’s a concerted campaign to derail our season and influence the AFL’s fixturing.
Despite the professionalism and focus of our players, and AFL players in general, negative media will have an effect.
Paraphrasing the words of Mr Football and Corporal Jones, they don’t like it when we stick it up them, so don’t hold back!
Cotts is a smart hard running player and has improved out of sight past two years will provide plenty of drive with Saad, Doc, Dutchy, Acres
As the game draws near, I certainly can't remember a time when we've copped such an intense pile-on from the media. Literally every day since last Friday night. Every outlet has had a crack from every angle. Past coaches, players and now high profile benefactors have had their say. I guess now the only ones left to have a crack are the players themselves and I hope they do but I wont be going to the game. I've seen this movie too many times in the past and the finale has always been so bitterly disappointing. Best of luck to the lads.
Tomorrow would be better to go as this week's media blitz will see them have a good crack. The week after is the issue.
Put Kennedy Cripps and Walsh in the middle, they are our best, Cerra and Hewitt as back ups. Attack the ball with vigour, run hard, kick to your team mates and take the opportunities when they present. There is talk of playing McKay closer to goal. I have always considered him to be more a Kernahan type player.
Regarding the "pile on" by the media on Carlton why shouldn't they?
We have been ordinary since early in the season (forget the WC game).
If we can't handle the outside noise then we are not focused on what really counts..our performance.
It appears to me the media is finally diagnosing the problem at Carlton. You cannot fix a problem if you don't admit what it is. I have said the problems at Carlton are not the players, not the coaches and not the administration but the culture at the Club and the attitudes that express themselves on the field as a consequence of this culture. The problem is now being named so tonight is the first chance to start dealing with the problem.
It appears to me the media is finally diagnosing the problem at Carlton. You cannot fix a problem if you don't admit what it is. I have said the problems at Carlton are not the players, not the coaches and not the administration but the culture at the Club and the attitudes that express themselves on the field as a consequence of this culture. The problem is now being named so tonight is the first chance to start dealing with the problem.
Which comes first, the media sledging or the bad culture, if I look impartially it's not clear which is cause and which is effect? It can obviously be either!
I'd assert the culture has greatly improved in recent years, credit where credit is due, and that the Mathieson rant is a throwback which the media is leveraging to pile on the pressure hoping the club will react wildly.
The media know they can prime Mathieson to speak and if suitably egged on they get unrestrained dribble as output.
Anyone who thinks Carlton hasn't improved, or refuses to recognise improvement in many areas, is probably a bigger problem than the actual club! Football and sport in general isn't like an investment, it's not a simple win or loss, sport is a series of milestones that build towards an outcome, like building a house.
It appears to me the media is finally diagnosing the problem at Carlton. You cannot fix a problem if you don't admit what it is. I have said the problems at Carlton are not the players, not the coaches and not the administration but the culture at the Club and the attitudes that express themselves on the field as a consequence of this culture. The problem is now being named so tonight is the first chance to start dealing with the problem.
I'm not sure about this, whenever things go pear shaped its always the "mythical" bad culture that gets raised. Can you elaborate on your thoughts about this as I am keen to explore it further if you're keen. I saw (and have seen for a while), fundamental skill errors last week that I think have nothing to do with culture. The group appears to be united, they appear to train hard, their body language looks ok on the field, I feel they can't handle pressure when its applied. How in your opinion does it relate to culture? Not being a smart ass here, am genuinely keen to explore it further as I think it means different things to different people.
I'm not sure about this, whenever things go pear shaped its always the "mythical" bad culture that gets raised. Can you elaborate on your thoughts about this as I am keen to explore it further if you're keen. I saw (and have seen for a while), fundamental skill errors last week that I think have nothing to do with culture. The group appears to be united, they appear to train hard, their body language looks ok on the field, I feel they can't handle pressure when its applied. How in your opinion does it relate to culture? Not being a smart ass here, am genuinely keen to explore it further as I think it means different things to different people.
When the culture isn't great, the on field attitude if often poor. means you are not always switched on to what you are doing, hence errors happen everywhere, especially skills. That one is pretty easy. Didn't see anywhere near the same errors last year when we were more switched on. So the answer is pretty easy. Culture has been a problem for a couple of decades.
Nah we've just been stuffing up a bit lately. Pressure is the result because you put more pressure on yourself to correct it. The result is pressure builds and more mistakes.
How to fix it? Release the pressure by letting them play anxiety free. The problem is that the media has mounted even more pressure.
Carlton is the feature team again in the print media this week with The Age devoting one and a half pages to an in depth article entitled "Why aren't the Blues better?.
It begins with the disquiet felt by supporters who are faced with reality not matching the rhetoric from the club.
It continues under the headings Game Plan, Positional Changes, Harry and Charlie and List and Injury Management.
There is nothing really new but it just adds up to making me feel quite depressed. Let's hope a glass of red and a win tonight will make me feel better.
The reason why there's such a proliferation of these articles is precisely because there's a big market willing to give them oxygen. Carlton fans seem to be more susceptible to this type of media than most.
I suppose because the club has over-promised success for so many years.
I remember the excitement when we heard that we had signed Judd - all our troubles would melt away and success was just around the corner.
We keep falling for the same line because we so desperately want to be a successful club again.
I suppose because the club has over-promised success for so many years.
I remember the excitement when we heard that we had signed Judd - all our troubles would melt away and success was just around the corner.
We keep falling for the same line because we so desperately want to be a successful club again.
By now we should trust that the Club is trying (and has been trying) to do the right thing, but we should also adopt a rather circumspect approach.
The big questions are, does the club know what the right things to do are, and do we have the right people on board to actually successfully do the right things?
I'm not sure but hopefully we have.
The big questions are, does the club know what the right things to do are, and do we have the right people on board to actually successfully do the right things?
I'm not sure but hopefully we have.
Professional sport and organised religion both require a healthy dose of hope and faith, for the unseen and unpredictable good things that lie ahead........
Curnow the sub
Curnow the sub
Hopefully that's a very strategic selection based on thorough opposition analyis.
Go Blues
Professional sport and organised religion both require a healthy dose of hope and faith, for the unseen and unpredictable good things that lie ahead........
Yep. I've had over 25 years of practice now.
Ed the sub.... really!?! what happened to integrity of selection?