Carlton Supporters Club

Please use as soon as the game is over. Hopefully we can improve on our recent substandard performances.

On the plus side, we’ll have more time on weekends to devote to other pursuits. Can’t wait to see what our next 5 year plan has in store for us.

Time for us to hand in the keys.

Heeney gave Cripps a bath in the third quarter !!

LOL! What else is to say? May as well have a laugh, the players do.

So, Hewett, Cripps, Cerra, and Hollands may be missing next week. Maybe Dow will have the last laugh after all.

Hopefully this is the last Friday night game for a while as I'm over my weekend being ruined by these pack of imposters. Oh wait, still got one more  :(

What can we say. There's nothing left to say.

The players have obviously given up on Voss. This is a replica of Voss at Brisbane. Great first season, good start to his 2nd season, then couldn't win a game and turned into one big disaster.

Have to look at blokes who simply don't care enough and move them on. Don't want to win badly enough then don't play. This has been an issue for years and certainly hasn't helped any coach either.

We have lost 7 out of the last 8 with the only win being a belting of an U/18 team.

Our players should be embarrassed to take their pay packet this week.

A multi decade rebuild to deliver an uncompetitive team full of mental lightweights
They’re unwatchable
 

Hopefully we can improve on our recent substandard performances.

Nup!

Time to make Cottrell captain.
Player leadership appears non-existent...its every man for himself. :(

Did I just hear Hodge say we have kicked 21.41 in the last how many weeks?
59 entries for 6 goals this week?
Hang your heads in farken shame.

We have lost 7 out of the last 8 with the only win being a belting of an U/18 team.

Our players should be embarrassed to take their pay packet this week.

Time to break out the sacked,cracked, and backed list...you can add a section on list managers and assistant coaches....

Disgraceful. Not good enough against half a team.

Disgraceful. Not good enough against half a team.

Thats the issue...the Swans had a half a team and nothing in the twos and we still couldnt get get over the line.

June 18. 

On the 17th I take off for Europe. Lucky I won't be here for the guillotine.

I like Vossy alot but he can't get this team playing and need to find someone that can. Gutted to say it actually.

Vossy and the players will be gutted as well, I get that - but we have been through this crap for literally years.

How many more first round picks does this club want to play finals?

Time to break out the sacked,cracked, and backed list...you can add a section on list managers and assistant coaches....

The sacked list has been relative easy, there are a couple of surprising ones to some that I'd add to it but I won't mention names tonight as it will sound like being salty after another loss.

I like Vossy alot but he can't get this team playing and need to find someone that can. Gutted to say it actually.

Vossy and the players will be gutted as well, I get that - but we have been through this crap for literally years.

How many more first round picks does this club want to play finals?

Reckon we have to do it different and stick with Voss and start looking at whats around him in terms of assistant coaches, footy managers and list managers. Hardwick had great support staff that helped save his job, they had Balme, got a decent recruiter in Hartley and had the right assistants, no more panic and sack the coach but Id be sacking some players at years end.

Reckon we have to do it different and stick with Voss and start looking at whats around him in terms of assistant coaches, footy managers and list managers. Hardwick had great support staff that helped save his job, they had Balme, got a decent recruiter in Hartley and had the right assistants, no more panic and sack the coach but Id be sacking some players at years end.

100% EB, sack players not coaches.

Yep.
I reckon it's time for some of the players to come under a bit of scrutiny.
Especially in that leadership role.

Reckon we have to do it different and stick with Voss and start looking at whats around him in terms of assistant coaches, footy managers and list managers. Hardwick had great support staff that helped save his job, they had Balme, got a decent recruiter in Hartley and had the right assistants, no more panic and sack the coach but Id be sacking some players at years end.

Yeah tend to agree. But they have been playing so poorly for months now and it hasn't been rectified.

In the ‘month ahead’ thread I said I’d be shocked to win all 4, not shocked to lose all 4, happy to win 2.

To me we relied too heavily on Cripps last year and built a team around him that did well - BUT it was always him that pulled us from the loss. Always. The man cannot always do that, not how he’s been bruised and battered. Reminder of C Judd not long ago.

Over it, I’m done, I am so sad. Really I love footy but I can’t watch our forwards kick anymore - my husband covers his eyes now too. That’s not how footy should be watched.

We have no discernible onfield leaders. Zero.  

Yep.
I reckon it's time for some of the players to come under a bit of scrutiny.
Especially in that leadership role.

Leadership is an interesting area, Id be getting someone like a Luke Hodge to do some work for us in that area, he probably wont leave his FT media work but Id be wanting him to mentor a few of our so called leaders and try and get some action happening in that area.

Shambles. Utter shambles.

It’s not so much the losing that bothers me it how far off we STILL look from being a decent team - we seriously play like a bottom tier team. Game plan is under 11s standard and foot skills are just woeful.

I had so much belief at the start of this year really thought we would comfortably play finals and do some serious damage in there.
This club is a laughing stock and to be perfectly honest I don’t even know how to begin to fix it.
Sounds crazy but won’t be long before we say this rebuild is running out of time as it usually takes several years of making finals before you may snare one.

The fact this group hasn’t played one final is amazing for all the wrong reasons. And year 8 is going to be another one with us sitting in the bottom half of the ladder.

We simply have no game plan.  Disorganised, leaderless rabble, playing dumb football.

Time to turn this side on its head, give some of the performers in the 2s a crack, and see if we can salvage the ship before we sink to the bottom again.

We shouldn't be too surprised - this malaise started half-way through last season, and the damning fact is we have done next to nothing to turn it around.  We somehow thought that picking the same old faces in the same old positions would do the trick.

We have no discernible onfield leaders. Zero.  

Leaders as in plural? Fark me gimme just one good one and Ill be happy. Folded like a deck of cards in less than 10 minutes.

Leadership is an interesting area, Id be getting someone like a Luke Hodge to do some work for us in that area, he probably wont leave his FT media work but Id be wanting him to mentor a few of our so called leaders and try and get some action happening in that area.

It's certainly not something we can call on our own for...
I don't think we've had a good one for the last 20+ years.
Captain or leadership group.
Even Judd was more someone who just led by his own playing ability.
None of them have seemed too inspirational....and the coach/ captain relationship hasn't really seemed too strong with any, if rumours are correct.

Leadership is an interesting area, Id be getting someone like a Luke Hodge to do some work for us in that area, he probably wont leave his FT media work but Id be wanting him to mentor a few of our so called leaders and try and get some action happening in that area.

Do what Adelaide did, target a gun player and leader from another club and offer him the Captaincy.

We simply have no game plan.  Disorganised, leaderless rabble, playing dumb football.

Time to turn this side on its head, give some of the performers in the 2s a crack, and see if we can salvage the ship before we sink to the bottom again.

We shouldn't be too surprised - this malaise started half-way through last season, and the damning fact is we have done next to nothing to turn it around.

I don't know what we can do to change things:
[1] our match committee still pick the same blokes, no matter how poorly they're playing.
[2] We don't make positional changes. if it doesn't work, we stick with it.
[3] We don't learn from the mistakes of the previous week.
[4] We don't take away the opposition's best players, we let them run into form.
[5] We're playing selfish football. Not enough effort to make our teammates look good.
[6] Our disposal has to be the worst in the competition. Even the Weagles, who put in no effort at all, can hit a target better than we can.
Honestly, I don't know what the coaching staff can do, because they don't try to logical things.

Really is hard to believe that every individual at this once great club actually get paid for whatever it is they do. Players can't dispose of the ball to an AFL standard. "Coaches" cannot improve on the skills that said players are delivering. those same "coaches" can't formulate an effective game plan to suit the players. Administrators consistently fail on recruitment of players to fill deficiencies within our structure. They all just live inside the 4 walls with an oblivious attitude to those who are the heart and soul of a football club. The supporters. They get money to put us through this torture, year after year. Are they sadists or are we masochists or is it a combination of both? Anyway think I'll give this site a rest for a week as I'm rambling. I think I've lost my mind

De Koning is completely inept when it comes to marking.

He even juggled a freakin' chest of all things.

I suggested we do it last week, i demand we do it this week.
Drop Harry.

He is a liability.

He is dropping marks. The ones he takes he can't kick. We are wasted our entries inside 50 going to him. He is useless once the ball hits the ground.
So why are we playing him??

Harry out. Bring back SOJ as 3rd tall and let TDK play from the square.

Cripps, i don't care what miracle you can perform during the week on that ankle. Have the week off champ. Bring Dow in.

Hewitt....will be forced to have a rest. Bring Ed in from the sub vest.

Newman....will be done with a hamstring....bring back Cincotta after his efforts in the 2's.

Hollands....will be an out. Bring back LOB

Durdin....needs a rest. Bring in Fisher and reward his effort in the 2's.

If Kennedy needs a rest, bring in Fogarty.

Give Cowan the sub vest.


OUT: Harry, Hollands, Hewitt, Durdin, Newman, Cripps, (Kennedy)
IN: SOJ, LOB, Ed, Fisher, Cincotta, Dow, (Fogarty)
SUB: Cowan.

Do what Adelaide did, target a gun player and leader from another club and offer him the Captaincy.

We did it with Kernahan in 87. That seemed to work.

It's certainly not something we can call on our own for...
I don't think we've had a good one for the last 20+ years.
Captain or leadership group.
Even Judd was more someone who just led by his own playing ability.
None of them have seemed too inspirational....and the coach/ captain relationship hasn't really seemed too strong with any, if rumours are correct.

Fair Points......Cripps form(excluding injury issues tonight) hasnt been great and his body language isnt right on the field.

De Koning is completely inept when it comes to marking.

He even juggled a freakin' chest of all things.

TDK has played like a juvenile giraffe since day 1.  All arms and legs with little or no physical co-ordination.  I can't see that changing any time soon.

Might be better to wait until tomorrow to comment further on this one.
It's getting late and the people are angry, my friends.

If the number of folks who are handing in their memberships tonight according to their social media posts then there will be no trouble getting a seat in the second half of the year.

Reckon we have to do it different and stick with Voss and start looking at whats around him in terms of assistant coaches, footy managers and list managers.

The issue is EB who's responsible for our gameplan the constant bombing on top
of the head of our forwards and the lack of nous our forwards have regarding leading making space blocking etc seriously has doing my head in.

HTF is this still happening!!  8 years and still
no improvement at all. i watched this
part of the game very closely tonight andnim
notmkirdong lucky if we tries to spot up a target in F50 4-5 times the whole game. i mean how is this even possible at this standard. I watch local footy and that is much better organised going into the 50 then us.

So is it the players or coach thats responsible?

For so many years, despite numerous senior coaches and assistant coaches,  we still have a team that looks like we have selected a group of players that have never met before to play in a scratch match.

I suggested we do it last week, i demand we do it this week.
Drop Harry.

He is a liability.

He is dropping marks. The ones he takes he can't kick. We are wasted our entries inside 50 going to him. He is useless once the ball hits the ground.
So why are we playing him??

Harry out. Bring back SOJ as 3rd tall and let TDK play from the square.

Cripps, i don't care what miracle you can perform during the week on that ankle. Have the week off champ. Bring Dow in.

Hewitt....will be forced to have a rest. Bring Ed in from the sub vest.

Newman....will be done with a hamstring....bring back Cincotta after his efforts in the 2's.

Hollands....will be an out. Bring back LOB

Durdin....needs a rest. Bring in Fisher and reward his effort in the 2's.

If Kennedy needs a rest, bring in Fogarty.

Give Cowan the sub vest.


OUT: Harry, Hollands, Hewitt, Durdin, Newman, Cripps, (Kennedy)
IN: SOJ, LOB, Ed, Fisher, Cincotta, Dow, (Fogarty)
SUB: Cowan.

I suggested it weeks ago.

The issue is EB who's responsible for our gameplan the constant bombing on top
of the head of our forwards and the lack of nous our forwards have regarding leading making space blocking etc seriously has doing my head in.

HTF is this still happening!!  8 years and still
no improvement at all. i watched this
part of the game very closely tonight andnim
notmkirdong lucky if we tries to spot up a target in F50 4-5 times the whole game. i mean how is this even possible at this standard. I watch local footy and that is much better organised going into the 50 then us.

So is it the players or coach thats responsible?

They went the bomb approach because the Swans had no talls down back...but the expectation was that Harry and Charlie might be able to get some through the big sticks and TDK might be able to make a few stick in his hands but alas no cigar on any of those expectations.

Shambles. Utter shambles.

It’s not so much the losing that bothers me it how far off we STILL look from being a decent team - we seriously play like a bottom tier team. Game plan is under 11s standard and foot skills are just woeful.

I had so much belief at the start of this year really thought we would comfortably play finals and do some serious damage in there.
This club is a laughing stock and to be perfectly honest I don’t even know how to begin to fix it.
Sounds crazy but won’t be long before we say this rebuild is running out of time as it usually takes several years of making finals before you may snare one.

The fact this group hasn’t played one final is amazing for all the wrong reasons. And year 8 is going to be another one with us sitting in the bottom half of the ladder.

Do we face reality and do the Honorable thing by players like Patrick Cripps? Do we offer to help them get to a club that could potentially win a premiership and know that we are going to take several more years to even compete against the best teams? Is that just admitting defeat, or finally accepting reality?

Patrick Cripps may never play in a premiership at Carlton. At this rate, he may only get a small taste of finals before his career ends. What about Sam Docherty? Same boat?

Patrick Cripps may never play in a premiership at Carlton. At this rate, he may only get a small taste of finals before his career ends. What about Sam Docherty? Same boat?

Sam Docherty, what about Sam Walsh?? The way we're travelling I can't see him getting a taste either

Reckon we have to do it different and stick with Voss and start looking at whats around him in terms of assistant coaches, footy managers and list managers. Hardwick had great support staff that helped save his job, they had Balme, got a decent recruiter in Hartley and had the right assistants, no more panic and sack the coach but Id be sacking some players at years end.

I'm in the same camp regards Vossy. I'd like to see him have some help with oppo analysis, ream selection, and gameday tactics.

I hadn't tipped us since WC, but really thought we'd strape in a win tonight. How wrong I was. There are no excuses that I can see.

Centre clearances, unacceptable goalkicking, and totally inadequate i50 pressure are not new problems. It's r11 and the fundamentals aren't being applied with the consistency AFL demands. Against a similarly placed team with an injury hit defence we kicked 6 goals!! That defies belief.

Worse still, but in keeping with inconsistency, for the 2nd week running we kicked 1 goal or less in a half of football. We've got 2 Coleman medallists ffs. Oh and how were the very gettable shots by H on one side and Owies on the other ootf 😳

I wish I wasn't a passionate supporter because I think I'd have had a good laugh tonight. Strangely I don't think all is lost. The effort is there. The skills are deplorable atm, which negates connection. Both can improve with confidence.

Can't believe I'm saying this... My instinct is that we need to stick fat.

Really is hard to believe that every individual at this once great club actually get paid for whatever it is they do. Players can't dispose of the ball to an AFL standard. "Coaches" cannot improve on the skills that said players are delivering. those same "coaches" can't formulate an effective game plan to suit the players. Administrators consistently fail on recruitment of players to fill deficiencies within our structure. They all just live inside the 4 walls with an oblivious attitude to those who are the heart and soul of a football club. The supporters. They get money to put us through this torture, year after year. Are they sadists or are we masochists or is it a combination of both? Anyway think I'll give this site a rest for a week as I'm rambling. I think I've lost my mind

I hear you. Lots of us in the same boat.
Take care. It's a tough gig being a Bluebagger.

They went the bomb approach because the Swans had no talls down back...but the expectation was that Harry and Charlie might be able to get some through the big sticks and TDK might be able to make a few stick in his hands but alas no cigar on any of those expectations.

Expectations aren't the basis for a game plan. That's part of our problem IMO. We expect things to happen. While we watch it unfold, we get caught out, well watching. Instead of playing what's in front of us.

When expectations go belly up, we're too slow, physically and mentally, to stem the opposition's rebound. Or we fumble our way around until we eventually turn it over. That's what's so excruciating to watch. Second only, to a set shot at goal.

Really is hard to believe that every individual at this once great club actually get paid for whatever it is they do. Players can't dispose of the ball to an AFL standard. "Coaches" cannot improve on the skills that said players are delivering. those same "coaches" can't formulate an effective game plan to suit the players. Administrators consistently fail on recruitment of players to fill deficiencies within our structure. They all just live inside the 4 walls with an oblivious attitude to those who are the heart and soul of a football club. The supporters. They get money to put us through this torture, year after year. Are they sadists or are we masochists or is it a combination of both? Anyway think I'll give this site a rest for a week as I'm rambling. I think I've lost my mind

Chin up Rocko, its just a game mate. You haven't lost your mind, you articulated everything perfectly.
Over to you Carlton Football Club.

Looks like 3, 4 or 5 forced changes to injury, might be a good thing
Cripps -> Dow
Hollands -> Binns
Kennedy -> Dare I say it Fisher
Hewett ->  Forgarty
Newman -> Cincotta
Sounds like the only positive was a small step in the right direction for Weiters. Holding Franklin goal less at the SCG is not mean feat, well dont you man.
What to do about Harry? Needs to be dropped, just in horrible form, 0g 3b and one OOTF that I saw is completely unacceptable.

The more this this season spirals out of control, the more I look at our list and think how many players are safe/untouchable.
Do yourselves a favour, dont do it after a loss.

I wonder why I believed this year was going to be different from so many disappointments in the past.

After all, since the rebuild began, and with it the turnover of numerous players in the list, recruiters have stuck steadfastly to the task of selecting players lacking in the skills necessary to get us to challenge for a top 8 position.

In addition, there has also been a percentage of positions left on the list for the selection of physically fragile players who have helped to clog the list.

Recruiting in this way has ensured that no matter who the coach is he will have to coach 'the Carlton way', that is to say, bomb the ball long into the forward line - the higher the elevation the better.

Playing  'the Carlton way' also ensures that the opposition will hurt us more on turnovers than we hurt them so that by the time the final quarter starts our team will be stuffed mentally and physically.

I don't know how this will change.  I just know that I'm over it.

Looks like 3, 4 or 5 forced changes to injury, might be a good thing
Cripps -> Dow
Hollands -> Binns
Kennedy -> Dare I say it Fisher
Hewett ->  Forgarty
Newman -> Cincotta
Sounds like the only positive was a small step in the right direction for Weiters. Holding Franklin goal less at the SCG is not mean feat, well dont you man.
What to do about Harry? Needs to be dropped, just in horrible form, 0g 3b and one OOTF that I saw is completely unacceptable.

Possibly 6 if Cez (I think) tackle on Hickey gets a week off. Shame if he does, he's been one of few playing with some consistency and confidence.

Weiters looked much more himself tonight. That’s a great sign for our defence.

Cottrell was consistent. Walsh is finding some form. We all said young Hollands needed a rest a week or two ago. Now he's injured his shoulder. Poor kid, belted from pillar to post.

Also thought Blacres had a better game and Motlop looked dangerous at times. Charlie was great further up the ground. Only he had a stinker kicking for goal.

Possibly 6 if Cez (I think) tackle on Hickey gets a week off. Shame if he does, he's been one of few playing with some consistency and confidence.

Weiters looked much more himself tonight. That’s a great sign for our defence.

Cottrell was consistent. Walsh is finding some form. We all said young Hollands needed a rest a week or two ago. Now he's injured his shoulder. Poor kid, belted from pillar to post.

Also thought Blacres had a better game and Motlop looked dangerous at times. Charlie was great further up the ground. Only he had a stinker kicking for goal.

I wonder if Charlie's goal kicking suffers when he is fatigued using up petrol tickets running up and down the ground? Anyway, he supposedly has a big engine so shouldn't be an issue.

That game was won and lost in the front half and in front of the big sticks.

And Buddy looks totally shot.

....in the cold light of day
Things often don't seem so bad after a bit of sleep and a bit of reflection.

Nah
They're bad.
We have some huge problems.
Some of them obvious, and others I suspect are bubbling along under the surface.
We've signed some blokes on long term deals but the question is are they the ones to take us forward.

When was the last time we did a review of the football department.
Oh right!
Change the coach?, done that...ad nauseam!
Rebuilt the list?
Done that!
New CEO?...yep, tick.

I'm not sure what's left but I suspect it means some more turmoil in the short term.
We often look to the 'messiah' on field or in the coaching ranks.
We've even sought one out at CEO level....but he's already planning his departure and succession (100 games I think was his time frame, so he's nearly half way through) but what he had to say at a presser early in his tenure rings pretty true to our situation just at the moment.

Q: Have we got the right mix of players and staff now to move forward: is there a synergy in place?

Cook: It takes time to build synergy. ‘Was there a synergy in place’ — I can’t answer that. But we do need to develop a really close DNA. The answer is ‘let’s work on it’. My philosophy to running football clubs is you need to be team-driven and it’s all about numbers of teams - whether it be your marketing team, your football team, your backline - who have to work together. It’s very important that, as leaders, we have to be really good at leading teams. It’s not just about just individuals.

That game was won and lost in the front half and in front of the big sticks.

And Buddy looks totally shot.

I thought we were better than the last 2 weeks. Sydney are used to playing on the auskick sized field and have been historically a much better team at home.

I thought we were better than the last 2 weeks. Sydney are used to playing on the auskick sized field and have been historically a much better team at home.

Yes I agree. The signs were better. Some early scoreboard pressure via straight kicking would've made a big difference.

If I was Voss, I would have gone hard at winning the centre clearances (we lost 13-7). On that field, one kick out of the centre square and you're having a shot for goal - which we would have fluffed anyway.........Oh well.

We will eventually get off the current Navy Blue hamster wheel.

I thought we were better than the last 2 weeks. Sydney are used to playing on the auskick sized field and have been historically a much better team at home.

Yep,
They usually play the ground very well  but...
They're 1 W (Hawthorn) and 3 losses (albeit close) at the SCG this year.
They have some significant injuries.
In general play we may have been a bit better, but the finishing is going backwards at an alarming rate.
McKay is mentally shot as far as confidence kicking for goal and that seems to be filtering through to others....and we've come out of the game with some injuries that will cause us some grief at selection next week.
We're not in great shape.

The injuries are a positive.

They force the change we couldn't otherwise make.  Whilst they're not world beaters, guys like dow, fisher and fogarty are going to get a shot in the midfield and o brien might get his chance on the wing again. He'll silvagni might play as a rover for a bit.

The cupboard is a bit bare at the moment but it means things will be a bit different.  Now we'll see what else we can try.

The injuries are a positive.

They force the change we couldn't otherwise make.  Whilst they're not world beaters, guys like dow, fisher and fogarty are going to get a shot in the midfield and o brien might get his chance on the wing again. He'll silvagni might play as a rover for a bit.

The cupboard is a bit bare at the moment but it means things will be a bit different.  Now we'll see what else we can try.

That doesn't fill me with a lot of confidence.

On the other hand Melbourne will go into the game full of confidence....and that may be their undoing.

I see it as a positive as well.  The only way our moronic MC will make changes is if they are forced too. NFI - like the entire club

Opinions are divided...
Voss's press conference on the Carlton Facebook page has...

1 love
37 likes
9 sad faces
48 angry faces
and 20 folks are just straight out laughing.

Tassie BLUES!

That doesn't fill me with a lot of confidence.

On the other hand Melbourne will go into the game full of confidence....and that may be their undoing.

Agree and dare I say just look over the other side of rhe Nullarbor to get a vision of where we could be headed, shudder!

Why are we where we are !?! This is getting back to the Pagan days.  WHAT IS THE INTRINSIC 🦆ING Problem with this mob !?!

On the Front Bar a few weeks back Fev did a simple demonstration of how he used to hold the ball with one hand lower on the ball at the drop.
Just saw one of the Swannies holding it in a similar fashion.
Have a look at the goalkicking this week and you may see that there are a few using that technique when shooting for goal.
Just something different for Harry to try.

Horse did a number on Vossy in the coaching box. Vossy is too often out coached - lacks imagination, strategic boldness and adaptability.

Confidence is rooted. Tried to be more attacking, but with stuffed confidence just continued to make breathtaking mistakes... which only further erodes confidence - vicious cycle. (Eg H).

Poor on-field and off-field leadership. We have the players but they're being poorly led - the proof is on the paddock. The imperative between the lugholes stuff is just not be addressed, fed and given meaningful direction. Our blokes are not enjoying their footy.

Visionless MC. If Lloyd had any integrity he'd resign, now - lack of player development and leadership is an embarrassment. Need a Balme type running the footy department.

We are a bottom 6 side who give great effort but are rudderless.

In short Baggers we are demoralised. We need to recover by getting back to basics and doing them well. I could not agree more about onfield leadership which is sadly lacking and maybe subservient to over concerns  with personal vanities?

Ok, so it's now the next day. Some of the anger does subside but the realities of the situation become clearer.
We have lost confidence as a group which has put a lot of players in "survival" mode and hence they play selfish football and the team suffers.
The 1%'s disappear as per Gov in a 2 on one not shepparding for his mate but grabbing the Sydney guy by the arm giving away the free kick leading to a goal.
The problems are everywhere and are not going to be fixed overnight;
* Poor skills by hand and foot
* Poor kicking fir goal
* Lack of onfield leadership
* One paced around ball - no explosiveness out of stoppage
You guys know the rest, the list goes on.

Solutions;
I agree with a previous post. Voss needs some quality outside support to come in and work on the issues  Clearly those doing the job now are not capable.
We need to sort out the playing list in the back half of the year. Who is capable of taking us forward and who is not. Forget wins and losses  Be brave, use the rest of the season to sort though the issues.
Leadership will be critical from now on.
Do we have the leaders at the top to do this? Will it happen?  If history is any guide, the answer is "No" to both.
But doing more of the same will just mean we will stay mid to low tier as a club.

We could list the ills of this game and club and break the server.

A standout marker for the collective failure is the continued selection of Ed Curnow. I don't know the fellow, and have no interest in picking on him as a person. Nevertheless he is 33. His disposal has never been at AFL standard, and appears to offer little in the way of direction to younger players. He is undersized and stays on the deck. His standout act on the field is the high hack kick.

So why is Ed Curnow playing? There is absolutely no valid reason for his selection. I thought 5 years ago that if he was still playing for us at league level then we were going nowhere. Yet here we are. It sets poor expectations of everyone. Having a go and the brother of a star player reeks of favouritism, poor standards and a general absence of accountability at the club.

Cripps has been smashed by Dunkley and Heeney.
Stop Cripps stop Carlton. Need to change things up and play Cripps forward maybe.
Maybe Wet Toast can give us a couple of good picks for Fish and Cripps. Will be crippled in the short term but type of decisions club needs to make if we dont make finals mathematically we are still in it.

We could list the ills of this game and club and break the server.

A standout marker for the collective failure is the continued selection of Ed Curnow. I don't know the fellow, and have no interest in picking on him as a person. Nevertheless he is 33. His disposal has never been at AFL standard, and appears to offer little in the way of direction to younger players. He is undersized and stays on the deck. His standout act on the field is the high hack kick.

So why is Ed Curnow playing? There is absolutely no valid reason for his selection. I thought 5 years ago that if he was still playing for us at league level then we were going nowhere. Yet here we are. It sets poor expectations of everyone. Having a go and the brother of a star player reeks of favouritism, poor standards and a general absence of accountability at the club.

Totally agree, it shows lack of selection integrity

Forward line
FF: Motlop     TDK   Cripps
HF: Fisher    Charlie    Fogarty

Cripps has been smashed by Dunkley and Heeney.
Stop Cripps stop Carlton. Need to change things up and play Cripps forward maybe.
Maybe Wet Toast can give us a couple of good picks for Fish and Cripps. Will be crippled in the short term but type of decisions club needs to make if we dont make finals mathematically we are still in it.

Imo there is a lot of truth in what you are saying Pinot. I have been having similar thoughts myself.

This was our best team.

Fml

We could list the ills of this game and club and break the server.

A standout marker for the collective failure is the continued selection of Ed Curnow. I don't know the fellow, and have no interest in picking on him as a person. Nevertheless he is 33. His disposal has never been at AFL standard, and appears to offer little in the way of direction to younger players. He is undersized and stays on the deck. His standout act on the field is the high hack kick.

So why is Ed Curnow playing? There is absolutely no valid reason for his selection. I thought 5 years ago that if he was still playing for us at league level then we were going nowhere. Yet here we are. It sets poor expectations of everyone. Having a go and the brother of a star player reeks of favouritism, poor standards and a general absence of accountability at the club.

Fair points...been a warrior but he is done and shouldn't play again.

Clarification: I am not in the 'sack Vossy' camp. No. Despite some of his shortcomings game day. He needs better support... strategic, experienced, game day support.

Definitely not in the drop H camp. Would be the worst thing to do. He'll get through this slump... should swallow his pride and let Fev down to help him out. When in a slump, accept quality support and direction.

Things can turn around quickly.

The forced changes for next week will be a blessing in disguise. Cincotta for Newman will be a no brainer. Dow must get a gig (for Hewett). Binns for Hollands. Sorry but Ed needs to go as well, his disposal is dispiriting. Fisher has earned a recall.

Clarification: I am not in the 'sack Vossy' camp. No. Despite some of his shortcomings game day. He needs better support... strategic, experienced, game day support.

Definitely not in the drop H camp. Would be the worst thing to do. He'll get through this slump... should swallow his pride and let Fev down to help him out. When in a slump, accept quality support and direction.

Things can turn around quickly.

The forced changes for next week will be a blessing in disguise. Cincotta for Newman will be a no brainer. Dow must get a gig (for Hewett). Binns for Hollands. Sorry but Ed needs to go as well, his disposal is dispiriting. Fisher has earned a recall.

Voss needs time.
The list isn't as good/skilled as many think, needs a fair old haircut at seasons end.
We fielded almost our best team on paper last night, 5 injuries and a suspension coming out of the game, lets see who we bring in from the 2s as replacements. It will show how fragile/flaky it actually is.

List needs work and we have too many good ordinary footballers.
Voss isn't a great tactician that he can change things up on the fly and we don't have enough of those players who can play multiple roles at a decent level.
Lack of pace is apparent and seeing Marchbank and Plowman plodding around in the twos plus Ed in the ones made me think we need to act and move on the list this seasons end and probably have a list reset where we have a decent clean out , maybe take a step back and retool with some younger ,quicker and more durable players suited to the modern game that teams like Collingwood are playing.
Time to get a recruiter that understands our weak areas and has more idea than Austin does...

List needs work and we have too many good ordinary footballers.
Voss isn't a great tactician that he can change things up on the fly and we don't have enough of those players who can play multiple roles at a decent level.
Lack of pace is apparent and seeing Marchbank and Plowman plodding around in the twos plus Ed in the ones made me think we need to act and move on the list this seasons end and probably have a list reset where we have a decent clean out , maybe take a step back and retool with some younger ,quicker and more durable players suited to the modern game that teams like Collingwood are playing.
Time to get a recruiter that understands our weak areas and has more idea than Austin does...

We'll see what Curly's boy is made of at seasons end but surely we bin these for a start:
Edward Curnow
Lochie O'Brien
Lachie Fogarty
David Cuningham
Sam Philp
Josh Honey
Lachlan Plowman
Jack Martin
Caleb Marchbank

Trade wise, apart from a hand full (and I mean a hand full) of obvious untouchables, everyone else is on the trade table AFAIC. We can't keep turning out the same blokes year after year who can't advance us into the 8.

We'll see what Curly's boy is made of at seasons end but surely we bin these for a start:
Edward Curnow
Lochie O'Brien
Lachie Fogarty
David Cuningham
Sam Philp
Josh Honey
Lachlan Plowman
Jack Martin
Caleb Marchbank

Trade wise, apart from a hand full (and I mean a hand full) of obvious untouchables, everyone else is on the trade table AFAIC. We can't keep turning out the same blokes year after year who can't advance us into the 8.

Who is untouchable?

On a positive note, I didn’t have to think too hard about my first guess at this morning’s Wordle. “LOSER”.

p.s. spoiler alert - don’t bother, it’s not “LOSER”

Positives from last night’s debacle
1:  the dramatic improvement in Weiters from previous weeks.
2: A more attacking mindset moving the ball out of the back line.
3:  Cotters proving that he is a serious AFL footballer.

That’s about it.

What really stood out to me, and everyone I’m sure, is how badly we handball. We make it as difficult as possible for the receiver to grab it cleanly and be able to use it quickly.

It’s either at their feet, loopy, off mark - which just kills the momentum.

Also we cannot kick for goals.  Syd barely missed one in front, we missed so many.  (This is tongue in cheek - clearly we are crap in this area at the moment and everyone can see it!!!!)

Browny highlighted that last week

What really stood out to me, and everyone I’m sure, is how badly we handball. We make it as difficult as possible for the receiver to grab it cleanly and be able to use it quickly.

It’s either at their feet, loopy, off mark - which just kills the momentum.

Also we cannot kick for goals.  Syd barely missed one in front, we missed so many.

This is IMO, definitely a confidence / above the shoulders issue. You can bet London to a brick that in training their skills are sublime. In matches they turn to hot potatoes.

What stands out too is lack of correct tackling

We have two or three players tackling around the waist, leaving arms free to dispose of the ball.  Meanwhile our 2-3 guys all go down In the tackle.

Grab the screwing arms ffs!

So yea the endeavour is there but the on the spot thought process is not - and the end result is we have players go down, they get ball out, and we’re exhausted all over the field because we’re all doing the same thing and expending energy for no reward.

The entire squad, and certainly blokes like McKay, could definitely benefit from a successful implementation of the "windscreen wiper" mentality that McRae talks about.

6.15 & one OOF !!!!

FMD, you are never going to win any games when you kick like that.

This is not THE issue but its one of them.

We can't keep sacking coaches so let Voss stay till the end of his contract (2024) and if things haven't turned around THEN show him the door.

Seriously scrutinise the assistant coaches, clearly Voss needs some better help around him and FFS, can we bring in a specialist kicking coach ??

As for the players, many Blues fans have looked at way too many of them through their navy blue goggles and think they are all Brownlow medallists. I'm here to tell you, as I have been for far too friggen' long, they aren't.

We can't afford another 'ground zero' rebuild but we can pick off the low-hanging fruit as there is too many of them that fit into that category. Be extremely judicious with the playing list, no "maybes" or "hope-so's". They are either competent & capable or they aren't, if they aren't, they get the boot !!

Go to the draft & the penal leagues and get some guys with some aggro & grunt, as Brother Elwood would say, no more Von Trapps !!     

And lastly, no more stupid long-term contracts. 2 or 3 year deals with options for another 2 or 3 years, we need our players to always be on edge, not complacent in the knowledge they are going to be comfortablely paid for the forseeable future.

Added to that, restructure all player contracts so that they get their base wage (which is somewhat reduced) PLUS an extra amount on top if they win (extra 25% just like they do in the suburban & country leagues) and then watch how desperate the players become. Some natural leaders will emerge from this structure too as they will be pointing the finger at the malingerers who are atually costing them money.  

Build in other incentives like number of goals kicked, number of tackles laid etc, the more you do on the field the more you get paid, it's not that hard to work out and I'm 100% certain it will yield serious results.

These guys hold some trade collateral and we must extract maximum trade value for them even though all clubs will be somewhat bullish about them : 

TRADE
Tom De Koning
Mitch McGovern
Zac Fisher
Jack Silvagni
Paddy Dow
Jack Carroll
Corey Durdin

If we can get a trade any of these guys then that is terrific, even if it's a late draft pick, it's better than nothing, otherwise, just delist them (i.e. free to a good home) :

DELIST
Lochie O'Brien
Lachie Fogarty
Lachie Plowman
Jack Martin
Caleb Marchbank
David Cuningham
Ed Curnow
Sam Durdin
Dominic Akuei
Josh Honey
Sam Philp

6.15 & one OOF !!!!

FMD, you are never going to win any games when you kick like that.

This is not THE issue but its one of them.

We can't keep sacking coaches so let Voss stay till the end of his contract (2024) and if things haven't turned around THEN show him the door.

Seriously scrutinise the assistant coaches, clearly Voss needs some better help around him and FFS, can we bring in a specialist kicking coach ??

As for the players, many Blues fans have looked at way too many of them through their navy blue goggles and think they are all Brownlow medallists. I'm here to tell you, as I have been for far too friggen' long, they aren't.

We can't afford another 'ground zero' rebuild but we can pick off the low-hanging fruit as there is too many of them that fit into that category. Be extremely judicious with the playing list, no "maybes" or "hope-so's". They are either competent & capable or they aren't, if they aren't, they get the boot !!

Go to the draft & the penal leagues and get some guys with some aggro & grunt, as Brother Elwood would say, no more Von Trapps !!     

And lastly, no more stupid long-term contracts. 2 or 3 year deals with options for another 2 or 3 years, we need our players to always be on edge, not complacent in the knowledge they are going to be comfortablely paid for the forseeable future.

Added to that, restructure all player contracts so that they get their base wage (which is somewhat reduced) PLUS an extra amount on top if they win (extra 25% just like they do in the suburban & country leagues) and then watch how desperate the players become. Some natural leaders will emerge from this structure too as they will be pointing the finger at the malingerers who are atually costing them money.  

Build in other incentives like number of goals kicked, number of tackles laid etc, the more you do on the field the more you get paid, it's not that hard to work out and I'm 100% certain it will yield serious results.

These guys hold some trade collateral and we must extract maximum trade value for them even though all clubs will be somewhat bullish about them : 

TRADE
Tom De Koning
Mitch McGovern
Zac Fisher
Jack Silvagni
Paddy Dow
Jack Carroll
Corey Durdin

If we can get a trade any of these guys then that is terrific, even if it's a late draft pick, it's better than nothing, otherwise, just delist them (i.e. free to a good home) :

DELIST
Lochie O'Brien
Lachie Fogarty
Lachie Plowman
Jack Martin
Caleb Marchbank
David Cuningham
Ed Curnow
Sam Durdin
Dominic Akuei
Josh Honey
Sam Philp

No arguments from me Brother Lucifer but I'd be looking at replacing Nic Austin with something more proven and given Hardwick has left the Tigers Id be having a chat  with Blair Hartley who has been in this position before with Hardwick who was looking like he was on the skids and trying to entice him over as the List Manager to plot a course forward.

Who is untouchable?

Charlie, Weiters, Walsh, Cerra, Hollands (yes the first year bloke), Cowan (the other first year) Saad, Pitto, at a pinch, Cottrell (yes Cottrell). The rest, including the skipper (yes Patrick you, the reigning Brownlow medallist), Harry (our full fwd), if someone gives us something for decent for the "better" ones, I'd do it. We hang on to blokes, we trust blokes, we pump them up, we make them captain, etc etc etc. We sack coach after coach but some of these guys have seen off 3, 4 even 5 of them. Enough is farken enough. We lost to a team who nearly lost to North if it wasn't for a freak free kick in the dying minutes. Come on guys, ENOUGH. Either that or sack another coach, personally I sort of stopped giving a flying fark about this club a few weeks ago. They are a laughing stock.

They went the bomb approach because the Swans had no talls down back...but the expectation was that Harry and Charlie might be able to get some through the big sticks and TDK might be able to make a few stick in his hands but alas no cigar on any of those expectations.

I reckon for the whole night lucky if we took 4-5 contested pack marks by talks. So even if we didn’t miss one it’s still only 4-5 goals against a severely undermanned defence.

Dumb dumb dumb.

Charlie, Weiters, Walsh, Cerra, Hollands (yes the first year bloke), Cowan (the other first year) Saad, Pitto, at a pinch, Cottrell (yes Cottrell). The rest, including the skipper (yes Patrick you, the reigning Brownlow medallist), Harry (our full fwd), if someone gives us something for decent for the "better" ones, I'd do it. We hang on to blokes, we trust blokes, we pump them up, we make them captain, etc etc etc. We sack coach after coach but some of these guys have seen off 3, 4 even 5 of them. Enough is farken enough. We lost to a team who nearly lost to North if it wasn't for a freak free kick in the dying minutes. Come on guys, ENOUGH. Either that or sack another coach, personally I sort of stopped giving a flying fark about this club a few weeks ago. They are a laughing stock.

No Doc?

I reckon for the whole night lucky if we took 4-5 contested pack marks by talks. So even if we didn’t miss one it’s still only 4-5 goals against a severely undermanned defence.

Dumb dumb dumb.

Week after week, we continue to give opposition defenders record stats, we kick it to them with surgeon like precision.

Before we go making wholesale changes to the list, I'd be leaving no stone unturned trying to get the mental aspects sorted out. The Richmond boys have waxed lyrical about Emma Murray, the Tigers current / former? sports psychologist, who they credit as having a big impact on their success.

How many years and first round picks does this club need.
If we fielded 22  pick 1s we would still lose with five coaches sacked.
Its cultural - loser mentality. Absolutely no will and ruthlessness to win.

I propose everyone from board to analyst to get in a boxing ring and punch the crap out of each other until the penny drops.

There is unfortunately no time frame on success, as much as we may want it today, yesterday, 2017 etc. If you examine any block of time (3,4,5,6 seasons etc.) you will see that the same teams are generally near the top, and the same are generally near the bottom. The competition is so even, and all clubs are essentiality doing the same thing, engaged in a kind of football arms race, so breaking into that upper echelon, and staying there long enough to win a flag, is pretty hard. And the longer you're out of that upper echelon, that harder it is to get back in. IMO.

Looks to me that the players have given up on another coach.

I'd be very interested to see how our entire side would go wearing a different jumper in a different culture, like, say, a Geelong culture. Obviously not possible but is an interesting thought.

Paul, given stats, every side should have about five years of good, five of bad and ten middling (heading up or down) every 29 years, given the life of a really  good senior players is about 15 years.  Some clubs eg Geelong, Cats have actually rebuilt numerous times in the last twenty years and defied gravity so to speak.

We haven't been better than middling for thirty years. That's a statistical outlier - you couldn't be as crap as we are, for as long as we have, without almost deliberately wanting to not get better..we're St Kilda 1970-2000.

Paul, given stats, every side should have about five years of good, five of bad and ten middling (heading up or down) every 29 years, given the life of a really  good senior players is about 15 years.  Some clubs eg Geelong, Cats have actually rebuilt numerous times in the last twenty years and defied gravity so to speak.

We haven't been better than middling for thirty years. That's a statistical outlier - you couldn't be as crap as we are, for as long as we have, without almost deliberately wanting to not get better..we're St Kilda 1970-2000.

No doubt our decline since 2001 has been precipitous. We certainly want to get better, no doubt about that. We've had a succession of people in that time, at every level of the organisation : board, CEO, Head of football, senior coach, assistant coaches, high performance, medical / rehab. Hundreds of players have been turned over in that time. And yet here we are. All those that have come and gone are supposedly professional, competent, committed. I certainly believe they are. Many have come from successful organisations, and have come in specifically because we want them to impart some of that successful culture to us. I'm quite convinced that a materialist / atomistic approach is not adequate to understand or solve the problems. I don't think you can, ahead of time, be fully cognisant that if you add this person plus this coach plus this player etc. you will achieve success. I'm certainly not suggesting anything supernatural, but there is some greater whole, beyond intentionality and hope, that gets created for successful clubs, probably by accident, within a given time period. It certainly involves good planning and good decisions, but something more IMO.

The heat is on over here in the West on Simpson and the Eagles because of their performances in the last 2 and a bit seasons. We belted them but realistically, are we much better off at the moment? They have about 16 of their starting 23 out with injuries so they have some excuses, and some poor list management hasn't helped. Calls for sackings from the top down....CEO, board and coach or a combination. Fans are losing it.

We had 4 picks in the top 20 in 2015 and got Weitering, McKay, Curnow and Cunningham. The first 3 were/are AA level players in recent years. Then we've had Walsh and burnt top 10 picks on Dow, O'Brien and SPS. Not to mention long term deals on pretty big $$$ to bring in Martin, Williams and McGovern...and given up top 10 draft picks to bring in Saad and Cerra.

And after all that, we're likely to be in the bottom 6 by the end of this weekend with really only one "genuine" win this year over Geelong. The two wins over North and WCE are meaningless.

We've shown in the last two seasons that our best is good enough. Even the first 15 minutes last night, we absolutely dominated that game....and still lost by 5 goals. Yet something just has to be wrong internally at the club for this to just be almost like we're back where we started. We have the players....we have/had nearly a full list to choose from for last night's game....yet we look so far off being a top 8 side it's not funny. Some bits last night were just about laughable...it's that sad. To see McGovern and Weitering fly for a mark and spoil each other 40m out from the opposition goal. To see blokes just continually turning it over. If we were happy to drop JSOS for a couple of weeks of poor form, then McKay simply has to go this week. Lost count of how many marks he fluffed last night and when he DID get it, he couldn't hit a pig in the bum with a frying pan.

Melbourne and Essendon in the next two weeks with likely 4 or 5 blokes out injured.....we're seriously looking at a bottom 4 finish now....after everything that last year promised.

No doubt our decline since 2001 has been precipitous. We certainly want to get better, no doubt about that. We've had a succession of people in that time, at every level of the organisation : board, CEO, Head of football, senior coach, assistant coaches, high performance, medical / rehab. Hundreds of players have been turned over in that time. And yet here we are. All those that have come and gone are supposedly professional, competent, committed. I certainly believe they are. Many have come from successful organisations, and have come in specifically because we want them to impart some of that successful culture to us. I'm quite convinced that a materialist / atomistic approach is not adequate to understand or solve the problems. I don't think you can, ahead of time, be fully cognisant that if you add this person plus this coach plus this player etc. you will achieve success. I'm certainly not suggesting anything supernatural, but there is some greater whole, beyond intentionality and hope, that gets created for successful clubs, probably by accident, within a given time period. It certainly involves good planning and good decisions, but something more IMO.

Indeed. The whole is more than the sum of its parts.

My guess of the mystery component has something to do with fun. When there's a sort of harmony within the club. So that all individuals feel safe, valued, and strongly committed to the greater good. Where all individuals are well matched to their very clear goals. Where performance is reviewed regularly with transparency, learning focus, and clear process forward.

Of course the bringing together of those individuals is the most important process of all. Ok. I'm just dreaming now. Guess that's my way of coping with another disappointment 😞

Go Blues

The heat is on over here in the West on Simpson and the Eagles because of their performances in the last 2 and a bit seasons. We belted them but realistically, are we much better off at the moment? They have about 16 of their starting 23 out with injuries so they have some excuses, and some poor list management hasn't helped. Calls for sackings from the top down....CEO, board and coach or a combination. Fans are losing it.

We had 4 picks in the top 20 in 2015 and got Weitering, McKay, Curnow and Cunningham. The first 3 were/are AA level players in recent years. Then we've had Walsh and burnt top 10 picks on Dow, O'Brien and SPS. Not to mention long term deals on pretty big $$$ to bring in Martin, Williams and McGovern...and given up top 10 draft picks to bring in Saad and Cerra.

And after all that, we're likely to be in the bottom 6 by the end of this weekend with really only one "genuine" win this year over Geelong. The two wins over North and WCE are meaningless.

We've shown in the last two seasons that our best is good enough. Even the first 15 minutes last night, we absolutely dominated that game....and still lost by 5 goals. Yet something just has to be wrong internally at the club for this to just be almost like we're back where we started. We have the players....we have/had nearly a full list to choose from for last night's game....yet we look so far off being a top 8 side it's not funny. Some bits last night were just about laughable...it's that sad. To see McGovern and Weitering fly for a mark and spoil each other 40m out from the opposition goal. To see blokes just continually turning it over. If we were happy to drop JSOS for a couple of weeks of poor form, then McKay simply has to go this week. Lost count of how many marks he fluffed last night and when he DID get it, he couldn't hit a pig in the bum with a frying pan.

Melbourne and Essendon in the next two weeks with likely 4 or 5 blokes out injured.....we're seriously looking at a bottom 4 finish now....after everything that last year promised.

Sorry did I see a different match?  Dominated the first 15 mins?

Just curious because I thought Sydney battled hard whilst we were scrapping and scraping and in a bit of an arm wrestle against a team with more hunger for the contest and a bit more physical to boot.  We endured that and tried to play footy more than anything but it was an ugly turnover filled match IMHO.

Indeed. The whole is more than the sum of its parts.

My guess of the mystery component has something to do with fun. When there's a sort of harmony within the club. So that all individuals feel safe, valued, and strongly committed to the greater good. Where all individuals are well matched to their very clear goals. Where performance is reviewed regularly with transparency, learning focus, and clear process forward.

Of course the bringing together of those individuals is the most important process of all. Ok. I'm just dreaming now. Guess that's my way of coping with another disappointment 😞

Go Blues

Yes, nice post and I agree. Despite the best efforts of dozens, possibly hundreds of competent people, the moment when it all clicks and comes together is random and unpredictable. No club will ever come out and say that, and supporters don't want to hear it, but IMO it's true.

Geelong are an outlier to some degree. A better comparison for us would probably be Richmond, Western Bulldogs, and Melbourne, all three of whom were mired in nothingness for ever, and then suddenly got their sh1t together against all expectations.

I'm certainly not suggesting we do nothing. Clearly we need to be proactive and attack the problem on as many fronts as we can. 

Thry...at one point it was 2.4 to 1 goal and we were getting plenty of the ball, bombing it into the F50....we had the tackling pressure right up and not sure what the inside 50 stat was but we were miles in front at that stage but just couldn't finish off in front of goal. But all those missed shots seemed to just sap the confidence of everyone. Charlie was marking everything in sight....except they were all up the ground mostly.

Thry...at one point it was 2.4 to 1 goal and we were getting plenty of the ball, bombing it into the F50....we had the tackling pressure right up and not sure what the inside 50 stat was but we were miles in front at that stage but just couldn't finish off in front of goal. But all those missed shots seemed to just sap the confidence of everyone. Charlie was marking everything in sight....except they were all up the ground mostly.

This is a huge factor IMO.

This is a huge factor IMO.

Yes, and it becomes a reinforcement loop.

Yes, and it becomes a reinforcement loop.

Yes agreed

One of the biggest confidence sappers at the moment is H.  Spectators are deflated by his misses, think how the players must feel.

Rather than dropping him to the 2s, why not acknowledge that he is not a forward and put him on the backline.  His brother is successful in defence, why not Harry?  At the moment we are trying to force a square peg into a round hole.

One of the biggest confidence sappers at the moment is H.  Spectators are deflated by his misses, think how the players must feel.

Rather than dropping him to the 2s, why not acknowledge that he is not a forward and put him on the backline.  His brother is successful in defence, why not Harry?  At the moment we are trying to force a square peg into a round hole.

Only reason I could think of not playing him back is that they have tried at training and he is clueless (no disrespect intended)

One of the biggest confidence sappers at the moment is H.  Spectators are deflated by his misses, think how the players must feel.

Rather than dropping him to the 2s, why not acknowledge that he is not a forward and put him on the backline.  His brother is successful in defence, why not Harry?  At the moment we are trying to force a square peg into a round hole.

My read of the 2's game suggests that's just what is being asked of Jack.

Here's a thought. H and Ben down back in 2024 😆 Could be a cheeky way to mix things up.

If Harry doesn't play then Charlie will be one out and have half the opposition hanging off him.
I'd get Matthew Lloyd in and working with Harry.....maybe his brother can arrange it and start earning his money.

If Harry doesn't play then Charlie will be one out and have half the opposition hanging off him.
I'd get Matthew Lloyd in and working with Harry.....maybe his brother can arrange it and start earning his money.

I was trying to explain that to me daughter on our walk this arvo. She says "they have to drop H Dad". If we do that, unless TDK plays full time fwd, Charlie has to contend with May and Lever who will smash him from all sides.
Again, I said to me daughter the other day it staggers me that Brad hasn't asked Matthew to come in and lend a hand. Maybe there are contractual issue that prohibit it.

Sorry did I see a different match?  Dominated the first 15 mins?

Just curious because I thought Sydney battled hard whilst we were scrapping and scraping and in a bit of an arm wrestle against a team with more hunger for the contest and a bit more physical to boot.  We endured that and tried to play footy more than anything but it was an ugly turnover filled match IMHO.

Yeah I think you did.

We had the better of the general play in the first quarter until the Swans kicked 3 goals in 4 minutes.    I am a little surprised with your thoughts as the general commentary  was that we had wasted our advantage and should have put some real scoreboard pressure on.

By the time the injuries came we should have been 3-4 goals up.

We had multiple inside 50's for points, while the Swans would march from one end to the other and score a goal.

If you looked at the general stats without the scores it would have been fair to assume a Carlton win

If Harry doesn't play then Charlie will be one out and have half the opposition hanging off him.
I'd get Matthew Lloyd in and working with Harry.....maybe his brother can arrange it and start earning his money.

Play TDK, SOJ and Kennedy/Cripps along with Charlie up forward.

Can do without Harry for a week.

One of the biggest confidence sappers at the moment is H.  Spectators are deflated by his misses, think how the players must feel.

Rather than dropping him to the 2s, why not acknowledge that he is not a forward and put him on the backline.  His brother is successful in defence, why not Harry?  At the moment we are trying to force a square peg into a round hole.

His confidence is shot.   Not sure how you turn it around, but we have too

It was only round 1 when he was leading up to the wings clunking everything.   Took 11 marks against the Tigers to be one of our best.

Today is he dropping everything.   Not sure a run in the backline will turn around his form.

We'll see what Curly's boy is made of at seasons end but surely we bin these for a start:
Edward Curnow
Lochie O'Brien
Lachie Fogarty
David Cuningham
Sam Philp
Josh Honey
Lachlan Plowman
Jack Martin
Caleb Marchbank

Trade wise, apart from a hand full (and I mean a hand full) of obvious untouchables, everyone else is on the trade table AFAIC. We can't keep turning out the same blokes year after year who can't advance us into the 8.

You can add Williams to that list!

And after watching McG shirk contests again, chuck him on that list

Zero time for blokes that don't try and/or won't put their body in.  That kind of behaviour is an anathema to us progressing.

The MC need to seriously have a look at the game style.   It revolves around contested ball, but we got figured out halfway through last season.   Instead of making the change we double down.

Most sides have 1-2 contested bulls max.   See Jarrad Lyons out of the Lions side and WIll Brodie can't get a game at Freo.  Pies have Mitchell and maybe Adams.  That's it.    It isn't because they aren't good footballers, but too slow to defender and to slow with ball use.

Our list build saw us add Hewitt to Cripps, Kennedy, E.Curnow, Setterfield and Dow.   Even Cerra.   Waiting on Carroll.   Haven't seen enough.   It's just too many inside mids when really only 2 should be in the side.

We play 3-4 and what we get is Kennedy playing off half back, Cerra half back against the Dogs and Curnow half forward or half back.

The same time we have added Doc to the midfield with no success.   He is not a natural mid.

Only 2 of Cripps and Kennedy/Hewitt should be in the side.

Ed?   Love the bloke and he has got every inch of talent out of his body and if you started a side in Tassie tomorrow he would be an awesome role model.  But he is done.   Slow and can't kick.   I don't understand it.   Didn't understand the extra year.

The MC committee also need to work out a way to help Saad.    The Crows sat on him with Keays (Did it 12 months eariler so we should have known it was coming) and we can't work out a way to get him into the game.    As a result every side has sat on him since and we have no answer.

You can add Williams to that list!

Ill cut him slack (sort of) because he did an ACL). Whilst I think he will be moved on eventually and will prove to be a bad trade, he gets a "last chance " from me for now.

Ill cut him slack (sort of) because he did an ACL). Whilst I think he will be moved on eventually and will prove to be a bad trade, he gets a "last chance " from me for now.

Been a disaster, came with Achilles issues and done nothing. Problem is he is untradable and we are stuck with him.
Just a more expensive version of Martin who we will have to carry on the list for the  next couple of years.

There's more footy nous on this forum than the bloody club.  Help out Saad...?  Nah, she'll be right might mate, Keays won't be on him again, nah.

Breathtaking idiocy.

TDK has played like a juvenile giraffe since day 1.  All arms and legs with little or no physical co-ordination.  I can't see that changing any time soon.

He doesn't have the same balance (? core) that his brother has IMO

There's more footy nous on this forum than the bloody club.  Help out Saad...?  Nah, she'll be right might mate, Keays won't be on him again, nah.

Breathtaking idiocy.

Yeah, no there isn't. If the club were to organise a session once a week or once a fortnight, where each of us gets a period of time to pitch our pet peeves, pet theories, grievances, MC stuff ups etc. to Voss and co, the best of us would last 3 minutes max, before we ended up at a #boomroasted moment. You can think the whole club sucks, which is perfectly fine, but it's social media hubris to think we can do better.

Not sure if you're a Simpsons fan, but if you are, you may remember an early episode where Homer discovers he has a half brother who owns a car company. In those of those "it seemed like a good idea at the time" moments, the half brother sacks all his MBA, Harvard graduates, insisting they know jack and have lost touch with "the common man", and he gets Homer to design a perfect car for Joe Average. There's a very valuable lesson in that episode, and it's stuck with me for 30 years. 

His confidence is shot.   Not sure how you turn it around, but we have too

It was only round 1 when he was leading up to the wings clunking everything.   Took 11 marks against the Tigers to be one of our best.

Today is he dropping everything.   Not sure a run in the backline will turn around his form.

You may be right and he is not suited to the backline. 

I thought of it as a way of keeping him in the ones and getting some benefit if it works.

  I'm against the idea of dropping him to the twos to find form as a forward.  At present he has no confidence and cannot kick straight on grounds largely protected from the elements.  At VFL level the grounds are largely unprotected from the wind - think of the game at Williamstown last week. Although he may get more opportunities, and even that is debatable,  I just don't see it as a logical step to improving his mental state or kicking ability.

I'd only need three minutes Paul.  The problems are so bloody obvious.

The problems are bloody obvious, have been for a long time and the only reason one can posit why is that the coaching group is utterly clueless.  Why don't they do something....anything...other than just reshuffling the deck chairs !?!

The MC need to seriously have a look at the game style.   It revolves around contested ball, but we got figured out halfway through last season.   Instead of making the change we double down.

Most sides have 1-2 contested bulls max.   See Jarrad Lyons out of the Lions side and WIll Brodie can't get a game at Freo.  Pies have Mitchell and maybe Adams.  That's it.    It isn't because they aren't good footballers, but too slow to defender and to slow with ball use.

Our list build saw us add Hewitt to Cripps, Kennedy, E.Curnow, Setterfield and Dow.   Even Cerra.   Waiting on Carroll.   Haven't seen enough.   It's just too many inside mids when really only 2 should be in the side.

We play 3-4 and what we get is Kennedy playing off half back, Cerra half back against the Dogs and Curnow half forward or half back.

The same time we have added Doc to the midfield with no success.   He is not a natural mid.

Only 2 of Cripps and Kennedy/Hewitt should be in the side.

Ed?   Love the bloke and he has got every inch of talent out of his body and if you started a side in Tassie tomorrow he would be an awesome role model.  But he is done.   Slow and can't kick.   I don't understand it.   Didn't understand the extra year.

The MC committee also need to work out a way to help Saad.    The Crows sat on him with Keays (Did it 12 months eariler so we should have known it was coming) and we can't work out a way to get him into the game.    As a result every side has sat on him since and we have no answer.

Nailed it.

Interesting tweet!

A prima facie example.  The gameplan. The Collingwood game highlighted that this list has no clue how to move that ball and deliver inside F50 to a forward's advantage.  Basic stuff you learn from u14 level. 

We were told that the emphasis this summer was ball movement.  So what were the drills and why didn't they stick?

A better comparison for us would probably be Richmond, Western Bulldogs, and Melbourne, all three of whom were mired in nothingness for ever, and then suddenly got their sh1t together against all expectations.

Very different to our list build. Those teams you mention played finals and had a few years of high table finishes we have been bottom dwellers and haven’t played a single final in 9 years. And yes I’m writing this year off as well.

You can always find a positive or some hope but we are entitled to be very concerned that this rebuild will amount to zilch as I’ve seen nothing to suggest otherwise. 

Interesting tweet!

Hopefully to fall on their swords.

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2023/05/27/ive-become-extremely-frustrated-former-carlton-star-slams-club-questions/

“It is hard to know what their identity is, I don’t know what their game style is,” Gibbs told SEN SA Breakfast.

“There’s teams in the competition that when you watch them you know what they’re doing, you can tell what type of game plan they’re implementing.

“Watching Carlton at the moment, I couldn’t tell you what they’re trying to do off half back, I couldn’t tell you what their forward patterns should look like.

“They’ve potentially got one of the best midfields in the competition, but they just aren’t winning clearances, they aren’t working for each other.

“Their ball movement, decision making, and their skill execution is far below what it needs to be at this level of footy.

“If you put pressure on Carlton, they’re just going to give it back to you, that’s known competition wide.

“They’re getting a lot of the ball it’s just they aren’t doing anything with it, for the first time over the last couple of weeks having watched them play, I’ve become extremely frustrated.”

Interesting tweet!

Yes maybe they recognise they are the problem.

Before we go making wholesale changes to the list, I'd be leaving no stone unturned trying to get the mental aspects sorted out. The Richmond boys have waxed lyrical about Emma Murray, the Tigers current / former? sports psychologist, who they credit as having a big impact on their success.

Well said, Pauly. Emma understood how warriors need to be warriors but need that 'something' that created unity of purpose, a clearly defined common cause. Singing from the same hymn book.

Our 'head space' is all over the shop... consequence? No confidence, second guessing each other, cautious, individual.

Indeed. The whole is more than the sum of its parts.

My guess of the mystery component has something to do with fun. When there's a sort of harmony within the club. So that all individuals feel safe, valued, and strongly committed to the greater good. Where all individuals are well matched to their very clear goals. Where performance is reviewed regularly with transparency, learning focus, and clear process forward.

Of course the bringing together of those individuals is the most important process of all. Ok. I'm just dreaming now. Guess that's my way of coping with another disappointment 😞

Go Blues

Love this, LN.

Whoever is in charge of our between the lugholes stuff is failing, badly, to unite and create a team dynamic. Probably doing well in the creation of model citizens, but failing to bring forth the bold warrior within each, wanting and willing to really hurt for his mates.

Mentally, we're a dog's breakfast. No shared team clarity of purpose, leadership, discipline and ruthlessness.

What was better this week.

Weiters and McGovern worked well in the absence of Young, there was little confusion and the pair had 9 and 7 intercepts respectively, they basically kept us in the game. I thought Kemp was OK despite a couple of clangers. We've been stating we need better efficiency and McGovern went at 89% DE.

Despite kicking for goal like crap Charlie has a night out with contested marks against reasonable opposition, he's in good form and just needs to keep working hard and he'll have another day out soon.

Acres and Cerra were better this week, although Cerra might have a week off, that aggression is exactly what we need. We need some aggression directed at opponents not just the pill, we can't play 100% of footy as the hunted, we have to do some of our own hunting! I think Cerra's defensive work / pressure was his best all season.

Cottrell's best game for the season, perhaps his best game for the club!

What was better this week.

Weiters and McGovern worked well in the absence of Young, there was little confusion and the pair had 9 and 7 intercepts respectively, they basically kept us in the game. I thought Kemp was OK despite a couple of clangers. We be saying we need better efficiency and McGovern went at 89% DE.

Despite kicking for goal like crap Charlie has a night out with contested marks against reasonable opposition, he's in good form and just needs to keep working hard and he'll have another day out soon.

Acres and Cerra were better this week, although Cerra might have a week off, that aggression is exactly what we need. We need some aggression directed at opponents not just the pill, we can't play 100% of footy as the hunted, we have to do some of our own hunting!

Cottrell's best game for the season, perhaps his best game for the club!

Interesting, I can't really comment as I didn't watch the first 3 qtrs. I'm basing my thoughts on what I saw in the last and game stats. I saw the game was close until the end where the Swans blew it away at the but we had chances to hit the front and win in the last. A loss is a loss and comments on this forum, others like it and in the media tell the story. Our season is all but over and the repercussions are unknown at this stage.

Interesting, I can't really comment as I didn't watch the first 3 qtrs. I'm basing my thoughts on what I saw in the last and game stats. I saw the game was close until the end where the Swans blew it away at the but we had chances to hit the front and win in the last. A loss is a loss and comments on this forum, others like it and in the media tell the story. Our season is all but over and the repercussions are unknown at this stage.

We basically had only one left on the bench for the last 35mins of the game, and Kennedy and Cripps went back on carrying injuries, this came after the relatively early loss of Hewett.

We basically run out of legs, we could only use 60 of our 75 interhcanges.

We basically had only one left on the bench for the last 35mins of the game, and Kennedy and Cripps went back on carrying injuries, this came after the relatively early loss of Hewett.

We basically run out of legs, we could only use 60 of our 75 interhcanges.

Yes I saw that.

Yes I saw that.

We'll before that it was a real arm wrestle, we were behind primarily due to poor kicking, you must have missed the three complete misses all from I50.

Last night we made Casboult look reliable! :o

What was better this week.

Weiters and McGovern worked well in the absence of Young, there was little confusion and the pair had 9 and 7 intercepts respectively, they basically kept us in the game. I thought Kemp was OK despite a couple of clangers. We be saying we need better efficiency and McGovern went at 89% DE.

Despite kicking for goal like crap Charlie has a night out with contested marks against reasonable opposition, he's in good form and just needs to keep working hard and he'll have another day out soon.

Acres and Cerra were better this week, although Cerra might have a week off, that aggression is exactly what we need. We need some aggression directed at opponents not just the pill, we can't play 100% of footy as the hunted, we have to do some of our own hunting! I think Cerra's defensive work / pressure was his best all season.

Cottrell's best game for the season, perhaps his best game for the club!

Dont think Charlie had reasonable opposition ...they had all their tall defenders all out concussed or injured and started with that spud from Essendon in Aaron Francis on Charlie. Then they seemed to rotate to play team defense with Melican and Fox trying to be second man up in contests but were just outsized. We should have made more of their deficiencies but as we well know couldnt convert even when we did mark the ball. Their plan was to get the ball to ground and release Blakey down back and he just ripped us a new one as we didnt have anyone who could run with him....

Dont think Charlie had reasonable opposition ...they had all their tall defenders all out concussed or injured and started with that spud from Essendon in Aaron Francis on Charlie.

Fairs fair @ElwoodBlues1 Blakey was involved in a few of those contests that Charlie marked, and despite what you think of Francis he's still a much bigger heavier body than Charlie, and Francis was getting plenty of assistance.

Love this, LN.

Whoever is in charge of our between the lugholes stuff is failing, badly, to unite and create a team dynamic. Probably doing well in the creation of model citizens, but failing to bring forth the bold warrior within each, wanting and willing to really hurt for his mates.

Mentally, we're a dog's breakfast. No shared team clarity of purpose, leadership, discipline and ruthlessness.

Tarah Kavanagh has been our sports psychologist for some time. She also maintains a role in academia. Not sure if she's still with us though.

Here's an interesting read for you 😉
Who'd have thunk!

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/doesn-t-have-to-be-the-difference-why-cripps-and-the-blues-are-prospering-in-2022-20220510-p5ajx0.html

Fairs fair @ElwoodBlues1 Blakey was involved in a few of those contests that Charlie marked, and despite what you think of Francis he's still a much bigger heavier body than Charlie, and Francis was getting plenty of assistance.

Francis is smaller by 1cm and lighter by a couple of kg according to the stats I read but is a complete spud and we should have fed Charlie like a baby and watched him do the rest but it didnt seem to matter as neither Charlie or Harry could convert and given we play with irrelevant small forwards and no goals from our mids we were toothless and just watched the ball being carried back to their forward line. I probably would have moved McGovern forward who was marking ok  and told Harry to get out of the road....

Cerra has a week off.
Could force up to 6 changes

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2023/05/27/ive-become-extremely-frustrated-former-carlton-star-slams-club-questions/

You can forget about discerning any game style when your disposal is so iffy. I take you back to 2014, when Paul Roos was coaching Melbourne :

https://www.afl.com.au/news/443427/im-embarrassed-says-roos

Despite kicking just three goals (from 19 scoring shots), Roos said he wished fixing the problem was as easy as changing the game plan.

"I wish it was that simple ... [if it was] I'd happily change [the game plan]. You are assessing yourself as a coach all the time, there is no question, but just the simple errors ... just incredible," Roos said. 

"If you have got an inability to hit targets, it's really hard to implement a game plan because you just can't execute the most basic skills."

Food for thought.

Indeed. The whole is more than the sum of its parts.

My guess of the mystery component has something to do with fun. When there's a sort of harmony within the club. So that all individuals feel safe, valued, and strongly committed to the greater good. Where all individuals are well matched to their very clear goals. Where performance is reviewed regularly with transparency, learning focus, and clear process

Kumbaya  :P

After losing last night & the Suns rolling the Dogs tonight, we have slumped to 13th on the ladder.

If the Tiges happen to defeat Port tomorrow, we will drop another rung down to 14th.

Spot on LL....said it last week, we're a bottom 6 side at the moment....literally and figuratively speaking.

Fair dinkum, we were good in the first half of the 1st quarter.
Cottrell was excellent.
However, our disposal was still our Achilles' Heal: Charlie kicking into the man on the mark, Owies kicking his set shot on the full, even H after that great pickup, turned the wrong way and his snap missed.

However, who was playing on Blakey? He just ran around without a man far too often.

Fair dinkum, we were bad in the last seven minutes of the 1st quarter.
Can we buy a free kick?

My wife gets annoyed with me when I watch Carlton play on TV. She is usually in another room and hears my shouting, swearing and hitting of things. I am actually good when I am at the ground as I can see what is going to happen and I am mentally prepared for the stuff ups and don't get quite as angry. Last Friday she sat with me and we watched the game together and I was on my best behavior. Her observations were that our disposal is terrible, there doesn't seem to be a game plan, our players didn't seem to try and they gave up. She now has some awareness of my frustration and things are a little more harmonious.
Cerra, Hewitt, Newman and Holands won't be playing this week, Durdin is not getting any where near the ball and should be dropped, and I can't see any future in McGovern or Ed Curnow. I think is is time Carlton made a big statement about itself but I don't think they will. It is all way too comfortable at Princess Park as everybody is working hard to find positives, checking their KPI's and ignoring the outcomes.
I think we have a very good list. I think we lack a little bit of leg speed but I don't think that is the issue. I think the problem is that we don't hit targets with foot or hand, and if you can't kick the ball to a team mate then there is no game plan, we make bad decisions, we don't trust our team mates that they will make good decisions and actually implement them therefore there is no run. If we don't win the contested ball we can't defend it and we are one dimensional when we go forward. I also think that Cripps and McKay have hands like concrete which indicate both a lack of confidence and also trying to hard.I watched a movie last week called 'The Merger' and the Coach of the town's mythical football team had the mantra, "If you are crap at something, keep practicing until you are less crap"which is something for our players to ponder.
As I have indicated I think there should be seven changes with Silvagni, Dow, Fogarty, Fisher, Cowan, Young and Binns to be brought in with Binns the emergency. If you keep doing the same thing then you shouldn't expect a different outcome. Einstein said was the definition of insanity, I think is is the definition of stupidity.

My wife gets annoyed with me when I watch Carlton play on TV. She is usually in another room and hears my shouting, swearing and hitting of things. I am actually good when I am at the ground as I can see what is going to happen and I am mentally prepared for the stuff ups and don't get quite as angry. Last Friday she sat with me and we watched the game together and I was on my best behavior. Her observations were that our disposal is terrible, there doesn't seem to be a game plan, our players didn't seem to try and they gave up. She now has some awareness of my frustration and things are a little more harmonious.
Cerra, Hewitt, Newman and Holands won't be playing this week, Durdin is not getting any where near the ball and should be dropped, and I can't see any future in McGovern or Ed Curnow. I think is is time Carlton made a big statement about itself but I don't think they will. It is all way too comfortable at Princess Park as everybody is working hard to find positives, checking their KPI's and ignoring the outcomes.
I think we have a very good list. I think we lack a little bit of leg speed but I don't think that is the issue. I think the problem is that we don't hit targets with foot or hand, and if you can't kick the ball to a team mate then there is no game plan, we make bad decisions, we don't trust our team mates that they will make good decisions and actually implement them therefore there is no run. If we don't win the contested ball we can't defend it and we are one dimensional when we go forward. I also think that Cripps and McKay have hands like concrete which indicate both a lack of confidence and also trying to hard.I watched a movie last week called 'The Merger' and the Coach of the town's mythical football team had the mantra, "If you are crap at something, keep practicing until you are less crap"which is something for our players to ponder.
As I have indicated I think there should be seven changes with Silvagni, Dow, Fogarty, Fisher, Cowan, Young and Binns to be brought in with Binns the emergency. If you keep doing the same thing then you shouldn't expect a different outcome. Einstein said was the definition of insanity, I think is is the definition of stupidity.

👏👏👏👏👏👏

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tT98UTODOOs

Get M.Lloyd down to the club now and lets get Harry sorted, dont need to drop him just get his technique sorted.
Its of major importance, this is affecting the whole team and has gone on for too long and we need it actioned because what ever is happening at training isnt working on game day.

My wife gets annoyed with me when I watch Carlton play on TV. She is usually in another room and hears my shouting, swearing and hitting of things. I am actually good when I am at the ground as I can see what is going to happen and I am mentally prepared for the stuff ups and don't get quite as angry. Last Friday she sat with me and we watched the game together and I was on my best behavior. Her observations were that our disposal is terrible, there doesn't seem to be a game plan, our players didn't seem to try and they gave up. She now has some awareness of my frustration and things are a little more harmonious.
Cerra, Hewitt, Newman and Holands won't be playing this week, Durdin is not getting any where near the ball and should be dropped, and I can't see any future in McGovern or Ed Curnow. I think is is time Carlton made a big statement about itself but I don't think they will. It is all way too comfortable at Princess Park as everybody is working hard to find positives, checking their KPI's and ignoring the outcomes.
I think we have a very good list. I think we lack a little bit of leg speed but I don't think that is the issue. I think the problem is that we don't hit targets with foot or hand, and if you can't kick the ball to a team mate then there is no game plan, we make bad decisions, we don't trust our team mates that they will make good decisions and actually implement them therefore there is no run. If we don't win the contested ball we can't defend it and we are one dimensional when we go forward. I also think that Cripps and McKay have hands like concrete which indicate both a lack of confidence and also trying to hard.I watched a movie last week called 'The Merger' and the Coach of the town's mythical football team had the mantra, "If you are crap at something, keep practicing until you are less crap"which is something for our players to ponder.
As I have indicated I think there should be seven changes with Silvagni, Dow, Fogarty, Fisher, Cowan, Young and Binns to be brought in with Binns the emergency. If you keep doing the same thing then you shouldn't expect a different outcome. Einstein said was the definition of insanity, I think is is the definition of stupidity.

Great post

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tT98UTODOOs

Get M.Lloyd down to the club now and lets get Harry sorted, dont need to drop him just get his technique sorted.
Its of major importance, this is affecting the whole team and has gone on for too long and we need it actioned because what ever is happening at training isnt working on game day.

..and highlights why assistants should go before the coach as he is the leader of men and strategy.. but if assistants aren't doing their bit it makes it hard for the coach to implement the strategy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tT98UTODOOs

Get M.Lloyd down to the club now and lets get Harry sorted, dont need to drop him just get his technique sorted.
Its of major importance, this is affecting the whole team and has gone on for too long and we need it actioned because what ever is happening at training isnt working on game day.

Thing is EB what he explained was not any thing remarkable more just basic U16s stuff about holding the ball straight and aim directly to the middle of the goals. If our club needs that explanation to get Harry’s routine correct our club is stuffed.  I beloved Harry’s issue is predominately between his ears. The guy has lost all confidence and once he sprayed too many on the snap and the media and supporters applied the heat he now is second guessing himself looks lost and confused whether to snap or go the drop punt especially in that 35-50m range. I feel for him and despite being frustrated must be an awful spot with so much pressure on him every time he lines up.

To be a successful goal kicker it helps if you have a level of arrogance, cockiness and strong belief in your ability. Anything less and you become fickle. Then if you miss the first couple early in a game nerves take over your routine which affect the outcome.

My wife gets annoyed with me when I watch Carlton play on TV. She is usually in another room and hears my shouting, swearing and hitting of things. I am actually good when I am at the ground as I can see what is going to happen and I am mentally prepared for the stuff ups and don't get quite as angry. Last Friday she sat with me and we watched the game together and I was on my best behavior. Her observations were that our disposal is terrible, there doesn't seem to be a game plan, our players didn't seem to try and they gave up. She now has some awareness of my frustration and things are a little more harmonious.
Cerra, Hewitt, Newman and Holands won't be playing this week, Durdin is not getting any where near the ball and should be dropped, and I can't see any future in McGovern or Ed Curnow. I think is is time Carlton made a big statement about itself but I don't think they will. It is all way too comfortable at Princess Park as everybody is working hard to find positives, checking their KPI's and ignoring the outcomes.
I think we have a very good list. I think we lack a little bit of leg speed but I don't think that is the issue. I think the problem is that we don't hit targets with foot or hand, and if you can't kick the ball to a team mate then there is no game plan, we make bad decisions, we don't trust our team mates that they will make good decisions and actually implement them therefore there is no run. If we don't win the contested ball we can't defend it and we are one dimensional when we go forward. I also think that Cripps and McKay have hands like concrete which indicate both a lack of confidence and also trying to hard.I watched a movie last week called 'The Merger' and the Coach of the town's mythical football team had the mantra, "If you are crap at something, keep practicing until you are less crap"which is something for our players to ponder.
As I have indicated I think there should be seven changes with Silvagni, Dow, Fogarty, Fisher, Cowan, Young and Binns to be brought in with Binns the emergency. If you keep doing the same thing then you shouldn't expect a different outcome. Einstein said was the definition of insanity, I think is is the definition of stupidity.

I enjoyed reading your post , but there is a contradiction.

You say that you think we have a very good list, and then you continue on to say the problem is that we don't hit targets by foot or by hand and then you list the further problems caused by those basic mistakes.

The current and previous lists have presented all of our recent coaches with the problem of their inability to carry out the very basic skills. It is the reason why we once again have another failed year looming.

A recent post included a quote from Paul Roos made in 2014 and it goes to the heart of Carlton's problem right now:

'If you have got an inability to hit targets, its really hard to implement a game plan because you just can't execute the most basic skills'.

It just shows that if we continue taking the easy route of sacking  coaches  without addressing the inherent problem of the  list then we will most likely continue to be bottom feeders.

Our poor kicking is definitely a problem as we haven’t been able to put scoreboard pressure on all year. It also seems obvious that the spark has gone out . Maybe the club isn’t a place of mateship or fun to be at and the grind has set in. Only has to be gone 5% and we will fall away quickly.
I don’t know but if the guys who came through the tough years see a bloke who went through that with them, wanted to stay with them and honour his contract trying his guts out each week in the reserves getting 40 possessions but not even being given a sniff when injuries arise. Maybe they see the way he is unfairly treated by the coaching staff and and a little bit of resentment kicks in enough to take the edge of the all for one in it together attitude.  Doesn’t take long for to drop off enough for small losses not intentionally just mentally. Same thing with Silvagni being thrown to the wolves in the ruck and stuffing up his forward game. He gives his heart and soul to the club but his game is being slowly stuffed by rucking.
Looking forward to lots of forced changes this week might be just what we need some fresh faces who have been given a chance with nothing to lose

Thing is EB what he explained was not any thing remarkable more just basic U16s stuff about holding the ball straight and aim directly to the middle of the goals. If our club needs that explanation to get Harry’s routine correct our club is stuffed.  I beloved Harry’s issue is predominately between his ears. The guy has lost all confidence and once he sprayed too many on the snap and the media and supporters applied the heat he now is second guessing himself looks lost and confused whether to snap or go the drop punt especially in that 35-50m range. I feel for him and despite being frustrated must be an awful spot with so much pressure on him every time he lines up.

To be a successful goal kicker it helps if you have a level of arrogance, cockiness and strong belief in your ability. Anything less and you become fickle. Then if you miss the first couple early in a game nerves take over your routine which affect the outcome.

Shawny, just been watching his brother play for Nth. Going about as well as Harry, outmarked by smaller players who just shove him out of the way and looks about as interested in defending as Harry does in kicking for goal.
No way would I want Ben based on what I saw today.
Often with goalkicking it is the simple things that get over looked and affect kicking, Harry does run in at angles and try and drag the ball back trying to compensate for not being in line and this is why he cant kick straight drop punts at times.
What ever he has been doing and with who isnt working and he needs a new plan and a new goalkicking coach and to settle on a routine.

Shawny, just been watching his brother play for Nth. Going about as well as Harry, outmarked by smaller players who just shove him out of the way and looks about as interested in defending as Harry does in kicking for goal.
No way would I want Ben based on what I saw today.

 








Often with goalkicking it is the simple things that get over looked and affect kicking, Harry does run in at angles and try and drag the ball back trying to compensate for not being in line and this is why he cant kick straight drop punts at times.
What ever he has been doing and with who isnt working and he needs a new plan and a new goalkicking coach and to settle on a routine.

Good to get some information on Harry's brother.

As for Harry, if he did not have  a set routine when kicking for goal at the time of being drafted and still does not have one after eight years as a forward, then I doubt  he will ever learn.

Good to get some information on Harry's brother.

As for Harry, if he did not have  a set routine when kicking for goal at the time of being drafted and still does not have one after eight years as a forward, then I doubt  he will ever learn.

We had a specialist kicking coach (Sav Rocca), we sacked him to cut costs. I say fark off one of the other spuds and get him or a better one back at the club. Didn't StK just dump the ex Hawks kicking guru (forgot his name)?

Given H's salary, you would think he would have enough initiative to hire his own coach if he really wanted to improve.

McKay is a Coleman Medallist. He knows how to kick, and he knows how to find the big sticks. He, like all players, has room for improvement. I'm quite convinced that the faffing about with technique and the yips in front of goal are a head space issue, and he, like a lot of our players, seems to be in a rut of some sort.

I enjoyed reading your post , but there is a contradiction.
You say that you think we have a very good list, and then you continue on to say the problem is that we don't hit targets by foot or by hand and then you list the further problems caused by those basic mistakes.
A recent post included a quote from Paul Roos made in 2014 and it goes to the heart of Carlton's problem right now:
'If you have got an inability to hit targets, its really hard to implement a game plan because you just can't execute the most basic

I don't think the non hitting of targets is about ability. I think it is about mind set and Club culture. So no contradiction.

We had a specialist kicking coach (Sav Rocca), we sacked him to cut costs. I say fark off one of the other spuds and get him or a better one back at the club. Didn't StK just dump the ex Hawks kicking guru (forgot his name)?

Kicking coaches will not break the bank, and if you are serious about your football, you can ask for help off your own bat.
H has already knocked back FREE help from Fev.

I'd suggest that he spends his money on a Sports Psych instead.

Fev struggled early in his career and he reckons BT (Who he barely knew at the time) called him up and offered to help him. They had a couple of sessions on the outside ovals at Princes Park.

I think Harry was going okay with his around the corner shots but then when he misses a few the media go bananas and now he is just confused.

There is no doubt H is confused and his whole game is being affected,  and going by the very clear explanation of his kicking style problems shown by MLloyd, his game will suffer until he gets help from the likes of Lloyd, Fev or Buddy Franklin.

Fev struggled early in his career and he reckons BT (Who he barely knew at the time) called him up and offered to help him. They had a couple of sessions on the outside ovals at Princes Park.

I think Harry was going okay with his around the corner shots but then when he misses a few the media go bananas and now he is just confused.

Also Ross Lyon :

https://twitter.com/thefrontbar7/status/1655341594978177025

Just came across this snippet 😬

Past 2 games, Carlton have gone inside 50 110 times for a return of just 13 goals. That's just nuts!

Just came across this snippet 😬

Past 2 games, Carlton have gone inside 50 110 times for a return of just 13 goals. That's just nuts!

Its a huge number for sure, how many of those resulted in shots on goal versus how many were intercept marked by oppo defenders.

Fev just said on the radio that BT and Ross Lyon helped him.

He also said that he used to have about 100 shots at training until the sports scientist came in about 2007 and said he can only have 10 shots.
So Fev obviously ignored this advice and bought a whole heap of footballs and did 100 shots at his local ground on the way home from every training session.

He also pointed out that 4 teams on the weekend lost despite having more scoring shots. We weren't one of those teams but accuracy cost us early.

Coaches' votes :

9 Chad Warner (SYD)
9 Nick Blakey (SYD)
3 Jacob Weitering (CARL)
3 Sam Walsh (CARL)
2 Jake Lloyd (SYD)
2 Charlie Curnow (CARL)
1 Luke Parker (SYD)
1 Isaac Heeney (SYD)