Remember to use this as soon as the game is over.
My expectations at pretty low at this point.
Good effort. We should go into the bye with 4 points, the usual harassers off our backs for a bit, a little confidence, have a good rest and come back for what is hopefully a good showing in the remaining games.
Happy 100th to Harry.
What a difference. Thrashed in the ruck but wrestled back clearances from a very good clearance side.
The emergence of Kemp, Cincotta, and even Boyd kicking i50 improves our ball movement significantly. Cerra, Charlie, and Doc getting help and as a result we give our fwds the advantage.
The tackling pressure was phenomenal. Hardly recognisable from what we've shown recently. Pressure i50 and hard work to create options was outstanding. I expect Martin, Fogarty, and Owies may initiate much of it, but it seems to motivate the others. Big H with some top chase and tackle pressure.
Well done all round 👏🏼
Good effort. We should go into the bye with 4 points, the usual harassers off our backs for a bit, a little confidence, have a good rest and come back for what is hopefully a good showing in the remaining games.
Happy 100th to Harry.
Its like another side ran out after qtr time. Kemps best game for us for sure, Doc and Kennedy were excellent as was Cerra (our most consistent player all year).
Its like another side ran out after qtr time. Kemps best game for us for sure, Doc and Kennedy were excellent as was Cerra (our most consistent player all year).
Yes agree. Cerra has been building a nice body of work over the several weeks. One of those types who goes about his business in a quiet, unassuming manner, so much that you often don't notice the good things he does. Has been pretty much the only mid who has really stepped up in Cripps' "absence".
Good way to celebrate a few milestones.
Harry's 100th
TDK 50th
Crippa's 100th as captain
Let's hope this is the game that turns our season around. We should at least take some confidence away. Something we desperately need.
Highlight. Watching Vossy's smile from the boundary line q4 after Owies goal.
Apparently that unbroken run of 12 goals through the 2nd and 3rd is our best effort in 25 years.
Yes agree. Cerra has been building a nice body of work over the several weeks. One of those types who goes about his business in a quiet, unassuming manner, so much that you often don't notice the good things he does. Has been pretty much the only mid who has really stepped up in Cripps' "absence".
Cerra has been dynamite it what has been a disastrous year. I read somewhere that statistically, he is close to being on par with Butters from Port who is the 2nd favourite for the Brownlow.
Cerra has been dynamite it what has been a disastrous year. I read somewhere that statistically, he is close to being on par with Butters from Port who is the 2nd favourite for the Brownlow.
Is that right ? Would be fantastic if true.
I also found the booing of Casboult by our supporters strange, we delisted the poor bastard and he subsequently went looking for another opportunity at the other end of the country.
Is that right ? Would be fantastic if true.
Check it out pretty close
https://www.afl.com.au/stats/leaders?category=Key+Stats&seasonId=52&roundId=-1&roundNumber=0&sortColumn=disposals&sortDirection=descending&positions=All&teams=All&benchmarking=false&dataType=averages&playerOneId=null&playerTwoId=null
https://www.afl.com.au/stats/compare?category=Disposals&seasonId=52&roundId=-1&roundNumber=0&sortColumn=disposals&sortDirection=descending&positions=All&teams=All&benchmarking=false&dataType=averages&playerOneId=CD_I1002239&playerTwoId=CD_I1006121
Amazing how when a side is switched on how suddenly ball movement and use suddenly improves out of sight.
I also found the booing of Casboult by our supporters strange, we delisted the poor bastard and he subsequently went looking for another opportunity at the other end of the country.
Please can we just stop with the booing already. Making fools out of ourselves is not what we want. Booing the big fella is akin to booing yourself.
Amazing how when a side is switched on how suddenly ball movement and use suddenly improves out of sight.
They weren't switched on in the first qtr mate
On level 2 didn’t hear any booing for casboult, and hope it was a small minority. Fckwits.
Great send off for the boys by supporters on level 2 today at half time 👏🏽 bloody awesome!
Great amazing result, so pleased for the boys, just wish Walsh hadve kicked a goal!
I think this result shows something clearly - when under intense sustained in close pressure, we cannot withstand it. GC did not do this and we are a good side against that play. It’s the intense pressure of Collingwoods or Melbourne’s, we can’t deal with. Fix that or learn to withstand it, and we’ll be good to go!!!
Go Baggers, bloody great game to watch live today 👏🏽
We finally played like a committed team.
Lets hope the penny has dropped for this mob.
Dow has been impressive for the time he has come on.
Boyd gets a bit of a bad wrap sometimes.
I like the boy.
He's only played the 12 games, so we probably shouldn't be too quick to judge.
He's not the most gifted but he gives effort, and has a booming, penetrating kick.
Yep ,he makes the occasional blue but usually he's in the more efficient of our disposers.
His efficiency is usually up around the 80%...it was again today.
Not sure why he found himself matched up against giants on a couple of occasions, but he didn't shirk the contest.
I reckon he also has a bit of 'dick' factor about him.
At least twice today a Sun's player wanted to give him a whack.
We need a few dicks.
It does marvellous things for my mental health when we win, especially a game like that where it threatened to get away from us. But the thing that pleased me the most was that we appeared to finally learn something from our previous mistakes:
[1] We tackled like we meant it. 69 tackles this week, compared to 33 last week. Not only that, but we really tackled well. Doc had a couple of absolute beauties, as did H.
[2] We seemed to have picked up in the centre square against a pretty good bunch of mids. We got more where the ball was. Cerra early and Matt Kennedy late were dynamic in the way they got the ball in the middle. Even though we didn't get a lot of taps, our rucks competed well and didn't allow Witts to just put them where he wanted.
Tom de Koning really competed well and took a few marks. He is a different player when he is holding his marks.
[3] Cincotta, Boyd, Cuningham and Fogarty didn't get huge possessions, but they really did good jobs. Cincotta's defensive work was excellent, Cuningham's run and dash, and his kicking really stood out. His smothers, chases and tackles were a big positive. All of these guys deserve a mention, even if they didn't get the numbers, because of the effort and the positive effect.
[4] Dow should get a go next week. His last quarter was pretty good: he had as many possessions as Martin had in 3 quarters. That said, Martin was so much more dangerous this week.
[5] Three goals to Cripps was excellent, but all of our mids hit the scoreboard today. 2 goals for Cerra, a goal to Fogarty, a goal to Kennedy and 2 goals to de Koning were more than useful contributions.
We had 9 goal scorers this week, which 150% of the number of goals we've been kicking recently.
.
[4] Dow should get a go next week. His last quarter was pretty good: he had as many possessions as Martin had in 3 quarters. That said, Martin was so much more dangerous this week..
Huge cheers for Dow this week when he had it.
I think the best people who played their best game was the MC.
Finally picked a balanced side.
Kudos to the players for performing well and winning with a decent margin.
I think the best people who played their best game was the MC.
Finally picked a balanced side.
Kudos to the players for performing well and winning with a decent margin.
Balanced yet diverse, lots of points of difference...harder to match up on.
Cripps and Walsh with an equal match high 11 score involvements...tells a bit of a story.
If they're both influencing we're going OK ;)
Cripps and Walsh with an equal match high 11 score involvements...tells a bit of a story.
If they're both influencing we're going OK ;)
It was all the extra hard running when they didn't have the ball to make position.
The whole team worked hard until the end running hard to get into position for the next play.
Kemp is my new favorite player and have never really understood why he has been in and out of the side.
If we can fix the way the ball comes into the fwd 50 then we would've won by 200+.
Maybe it's the forwards not leading hard enough to make separation ala Fev style?
Was nice to finally win a game with a full set of finger nails :D
We kicked as many goals this week as we have the last 3 weeks combined.
Boyd gets a bit of a bad wrap sometimes.
I like the boy.
He's only played the 12 games, so we probably shouldn't be too quick to judge.
He's not the most gifted but he gives effort, and has a booming, penetrating kick.
Yep ,he makes the occasional blue but usually he's in the more efficient of our disposers.
His efficiency is usually up around the 80%...it was again today.
Not sure why he found himself matched up against giants on a couple of occasions, but he didn't shirk the contest.
I reckon he also has a bit of 'dick' factor about him.
At least twice today a Sun's player wanted to give him a whack.
We need a few dicks.
I'm warming to Boyd. He goes ok and I think he'll get better and gain more composure with experience.
Cripps and Walsh with an equal match high 11 score involvements...tells a bit of a story.
If they're both influencing we're going OK ;)
Centre Clearances 19 - 7 (Cerra Cripps Kennedy), nuff said.
Nice win and great to finally see us move the ball more freely and play on rather then the safe stop start brand we have become known for.
Still we did it against a bottom to middle tier team so apart from being nice to see us win I'm keeping it in perspective and wont be getting ahead of myself.
Would hope it builds confidence going into the bye and think its so important for this group to get a few top 4-6 scalps in the run home to prove we can compete at the higher level as from what i can recall we haven't beaten any top 4 team in this rebuild - finals are likely gone but so important IMO to get something useful out of what's been a disaster of a year and showing we can not just get close to but beat the better teams is a massive tick to taking the next step and making finals
I'm warming to Boyd. He goes ok and I think he'll get better and gain more composure with experience.
Boyd, like Kemp and Cincotta seem to have adjusted nicely with a bit of consistency. Consistency can't be underestimated. Now it's over to TDK, Pitto, Martin, Fogarty, and Cunners to follow suit. I've probably missed some too. Dow. George....
Finally speaks to some relative list fitness. Nod to JR and crew, whom I've be critical of when our sick bay has been overflowing.
We finally played like a committed team.
Lets hope the penny has dropped for this mob.
Dow has been impressive for the time he has come on.
I did note that the players were laughing and mucking around before the 1st bounce and I thought well at least they are looking positive. Once they got that roll of 12 goals, you could see the confidence and enthusiasm grow. Now, to bring that into the next game.
Saw this on the twitter sphere:
Dow in 25 minutes:
8 touches @ 88%
3 contested
5 kicks @ 80%
4 score involvements
3 inside 50s (our equal 5th most)
1 intercept
213 metres gained
1 clearance
Good work Dowey.
In addition to all the other positives, no injuries. Yes, you read that right. Jack Martin, Cuningham, Kemp, McGovern all unscathed.
This match is going straight to the pool room.
In addition to all the other positives, no injuries. Yes, you read that right. Jack Martin, Cuningham, Kemp, McGovern all unscathed.
This match is going straight to the pool room.
Add to that, a positive tape to review after 6 nightmare ones. I wouldn't underestimate what effect that could have.
Add to that, a positive tape to review after 6 nightmare ones. I wouldn't underestimate what effect that could have.
Yep
They coaches have probably been highlighting things the players have been doing well in previous matches.
This game they'll be able to highlight the 'results' when things are done well. ;) ;D
Who were those players out there today and what have they done with the real Carlton side. I shake my head with exasperation. It is so easy. Make a contest, don't give up, keep trying, tackle hard, kick to your team mates and kick goals. There are a few things we have done differently. We picked a couple of players with pace in Cuningham, Fogarty and Dow. I would still like to see Fisher in the side particularly coming out of defence which he doing in the VFL. I thought we competed well in the ruck negating Witts to a certain degree. Witts was definitely shepherding in the ruck, blocking the run of TDK and Pittonett and getting away with it, umpires do not understand ruck work, but I thought we managed the hit outs well even though we were beaten in the count and I thought our guys directed the ball effectively when they got their hands on it. This also helped us in the clearances particularly after quarter time. There was a distinct advantage towards the main scoreboard end with Carlton kicking 14 of 18 goals down that end and Gold Coast kicking 5 of 8. I also noticed Martin stayed deep in the forward line which meant we had someone to crumb the ball when it was kick long to Harry, Charlie and TDK and also meant the ball wasn't boomeranging out of our forward line quite as easily. All in all it was a very even performance with one quarter of brilliance. Finally the gloom lifted.
Is expecting the same against hawks unrealistic?
I'm still in shock with that 2nd qtr. The skills, the run, the dare, the conversion. Never saw this coming at qtr time. Rarely see turnarounds like that.
Bad news for Lewis Young with the back line of Weitering, McGovern, Kemp looking far more reliable.
Bad news for Lewis Young with the back line of Weitering, McGovern, Kemp looking far more reliable.
I'm not sure we looked better on the very last line, Young's size can bring something to contests with the likes of King, especially if Young's the 3rd man up, but pretty much everywhere else and in all other circumstances the extra run and coverage was far better, nobody was a spectator.
If we play against the Cats, with two mobile strong KPFs and two strong mobile attacking rucks, a Young type in good form could still be useful.
I think todays D50 setup would have been very useful against the Filth.
Centre Clearances 19 - 7 (Cerra Cripps Kennedy), nuff said.
That and the direct kicking from those clearances to take advantage of the 6/6/6 restriction and give our forwards a chance.
Also, it is much easier when there is space and much less pressure - and still there were some unpressured turnovers.
Bad news for Lewis Young with the back line of Weitering, McGovern, Kemp looking far more reliable.
He needs to talk to Paddy Dow about working your ass off to get back into the 1s. The smile on Paddys face the last two weeks has been a breath of fresh air.
Also, it is much easier when there is space and much less pressure - and still there were some unpressured turnovers.
This. There was hardly any pressure Altho in saying that we were not fking around with it, we got it and moved it on immediately. No stopping, propping, looking around - it was bang bang bang.
So maybe it’s half half, half we weren’t severely pressured because of the opposition but also half we didn’t put ourselves in the position of being constantly pressured by moving it on quickly.
Warmed the cockles to see that tackle pressure... gang tackles... fair-dinkum stuff. Loved it. The defensive pressure was first rate.
When we got the aggott... dare, risk and run. Loved it. Amazing how quick you look as a side when you put speed on the pill.
As previously mentioned, the MC got it right - no passengers. Strong points of difference. Cunners and Martin running around the forward line add much needed class. Fog fitted in beautifully.
The backline was as mean a cat shyte. Kemp cemented a deserved place. Boyd coming along nicely. Cincotta is becoming a cult hero. Plenty of mongrel among our defenders as well - love it.
Love the spread of goal kickers. A truly dangerous forward line and midfield - all like a snag.
Welcome back, Crippa - champ. Cerra led the charge from the onset - class act.
Leadership + discipline = confidence. Now for more of the same against the Dawks.
I'm sitting there on the half-forward flank after an insipid first quarter, and I though to myself "What the hell was that....?"
I'm in the same spot 30 minutes later, and I'm thinking "What the hell was THAT?!!""
They say a week's a long time in footy, but 30 minutes?
Let's hope the lessons stay learned.
Suns were in good form. Pre game they were showing that they were top 4 in centre clearances and scoring. We were bottom 4 in the same categories.
GC have an 18% winning percentage away from home. Bookies had us as favourites even with our horrible form.
A bit of perspective along with the hysteria of winning needed imho.
We had way more possessions but only a few more inside 50s so we are still fecking around with the ball too much and both teams were down on contested and uncontested possession averages.
I want to see way more evidence that we are competitive vs decent teams before we award the likes of Boyd, Martin etc accolades like some want to do based on one game vs a team that away from home are one level up from West Coast...
The fans certainly have a real soft spot for Dow and by the look of the after game celebrations so do his team mates. I'm really hoping Voss and co have used the sub option for other reasons then what us arm chair experts only see. Could it be a personal tactic to help develop him breaking his game down to a full out burst on a 1/4 of a game to set a bar on what is needed and if he is capable. In bursts he shows he can be a damaging midfielder just hoping he can emulate it for longer periods then he has shown in the past
Dow is one player that will be busting his as5 with any chance he gets for the remainder of the year and im hoping Voss has not yet put a line through him and gives him the second half of the year before making a call.
TDK showed why he is wanted commodity on the open market. As a ruckman he still has a lot of growth yet to come but around the ground and especially forward he is a dangerous option and one opposition defenders need to keep their eye on when he floats forward.
Clumsy Pit on the other hand has one tool in his tool kit and once the bounce is over he is pretty much useless.
TDK is not the full package yet and may be earning more then he is worth for now but If you take the blue glasses off you can clearly see the major point of difference between between our 2 ruckman. TDK ceiling is high and being in the Gawn/English mould can see why he is going to get a healthy contract.
I hope we can retain him but think its unlikely.
Clumsy Pit on the other hand has one tool in his tool kit and once the bounce is over he is pretty much useless.
That's not fair on Pitto, he's fine when used to his strengths, but he is not a running type ruck. He needs to be in the push and shove and floating across CHB to take away opposition space.
Last weekend was the first time this season we've used the two rucks to their best advantage, Pitto controlling the opposition momentum and TDK attacking.
By the end of the game TDK was gaining confidence and also clunked an intercept mark.
That's not fair on Pitto, he's fine when used to his strengths, but he is not a running type ruck. He needs to be in the push and shove and floating across CHB to take away opposition space.
Last weekend was the first time this season we've used the two rucks to their best advantage, Pitto controlling the opposition momentum and TDK attacking.
By the end of the game TDK was gaining confidence and also clunked an intercept mark.
And managed to sit Witts on his ass 2 or 3 times with some fair bumps, the one on the interchange wing in the 3rd qtr (I think) was a beauty.
Good way to start the week!
Too many positives outta that one to list (not hard after the last 6 weeks) but all of the issues that WERE a problem, we overcame them in that game.
Mids dominated and nearly all hit the scoreboard. No reliance on Harry and Charlie to kick all the goals....8 or 9 different goalkickers....can't remember the last time that happened. Set shot kicking for the most part was spot on....even by blokes like Cripps and Cottrell who can often spray them.
IMO that was Kemp's best game for us and he looks to have grown in confidence in the last month....he's taking the game on, using his run to advantage and his kicking has been a feature. In fact, him, Cincotta and Boyd were all good yesterday and used the ball well. I was suggesting Doc to go back yesterday but their efforts freed Doc up who played a great game through the middle.
While they weren't huge in disposals, I thought Cunningham and Fogarty offered a point of difference yesterday...something we haven't had with Fisher and Motlop in recent weeks.
TDK's best game in awhile and even though beaten in a lot of the ruck contests, he got around the ground and hit the scoreboard too.
And maybe we just have to temper the expectations with Jack Martin and realise he's can be a low possesion, high impact player....he offers a bit of X-factor that we don't really have on the list. Some of his stuff yesterday, especially early, was really good.
And rapt to see Dow's effort too. 8 possessions in the last quarter....he couldn't have done much more and was very effective. He looked to enjoy it and get some confidence. At one point in the last quarter on TV you could hear the crowd give him a big cheer too. I'd like to see him in the starting 22 but hard to see us making too many changes for the next game.
Have watched the game a couple of times now. After 6 weeks of pain can you blame me? Here are my observations for what it's worth
Acres - OK but needs to kick less and handball more
Boyd - I like this kid for his drive, his pace and his kicking. Think he could potentially end up on ball but we'll see. Some not sold on him yet but until he starts to butcher it he's a lock.
Cerra - Great. Clearly has the John Nicholls medal in the bag. Much like when we picked up Saad didn't think he was worth it but concede I was wrong.
Cincotta - Very much like him at the moment and like Boyd has some toe and kicks well. He likes to take em on and uses well in most cases.
Cottrell - Had a couple of average weeks prior but yesterday he was very good.
Cripps - Just a different player. Does that mean he's no longer injured? When he's playing like that AND kicking goals it's a joy to watch. How is it so?
Cuningham - A couple of his disposals were wayward but overall a solid return. He has some really nice moves, baulks well, sells candy, can improve.
Curnow - Pretty good. Looked dangerous at times and could have had a real big game but at times he hangs back when the ball is coming in instead of moving towards the kicker. Annoying. Over thinks things at times as well.
De Koning - Pretty damn good. Took marks early and I think it lifts his confidence. Better than Pitt on the day
Docherty - The luxury of him around the contest instead of on a HBF is a real bonus. Very good game.
Dow - 2 weeks in a row as the super-sub has proven he may have a future? Does he get a real game?
Fogarty - Got his chance and did pretty well
Kemp - Great game on someone twice his size in most cases. His run-down and tackle on Sexton in the last was a real highlight for me. Brilliant.
Kennedy - Got better as the game went on and by the end was back to his best I thought.
Martin - I hope he stays fit because he has the skills and brains to be a real influence. I also hope Motlop watches the tape to see how a small forward is supposed to operate. Front and centre at the feet of the forwards
McGovern - Pretty solid but gee, some of those kicks of his are absolutely atrocious. Just tries to be too clever IMO.
McKay - Better game for Harry. Hope he can get some more confidence and continue on for the rest of the year.
Newman- Really good return, Suprised by how quickly he slotted back in. Some of his kicks were sublime.
Owies - Serviceable
Pittonet - Battled against Witts. Probably our weakest link.
Saad - Effective kick. Hard runner. Typical solid effort.
Walsh - Porbably his best game for quite some time. Effective user of the ball. Just wished he had've kicked that last shot on goal.Deserved it.
Weitering - Beat King, pretty much. I do think his kicking can be very flaky at times, but still a world better to where he was 3 weeks ago.
Overall an impressive performance but all the planets seemed to be in alignment. Team selection looks to have sorted some of our issues with speed and ball use but for how long? Not happy about having the bye and no confidence against the Hawks. If Sicily stays suspended then I may have a little bit more optimism.
Lets enjoy the next 2 weeks
GC have an 18% winning percentage away from home. Bookies had us as favourites even with our horrible form.
A bit of perspective along with the hysteria of winning needed imho.
We had way more possessions but only a few more inside 50s so we are still fecking around with the ball too much and both teams were down on contested and uncontested possession averages.
I want to see way more evidence that we are competitive vs decent teams before we award the likes of Boyd, Martin etc accolades like some want to do based on one game vs a team that away from home are one level up from West Coast...
Absolutely. A sobering perspective. Yes, we need to reproduce that performance against top notch opposition. But it was a step in the right direction. Hopefully it gives the boys some confidence... especially with boldness and tackle pressure... and kicking straight for goal!
I liked that after qtr time, we became the hunters...
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2023/06/18/cornes-and-lyon-break-down-carltons-out-of-the-box-performance/
Not in any way a Cornes fan, but I do enjoy cherry picking the bits I like, and this is one of them :
“Then in the second quarter, they played as good a football as you've seen any team play this year.
We may as well savour the moment. It's hard to know how many more wins we'll have this year.
TDK showed why he is wanted commodity on the open market. As a ruckman he still has a lot of growth yet to come but around the ground and especially forward he is a dangerous option and one opposition defenders need to keep their eye on when he floats forward.
Clumsy Pit on the other hand has one tool in his tool kit and once the bounce is over he is pretty much useless.
Thought Pitto was well beaten by Witts who was too strong against Pitto's main strength.
Impressed by TDK who used Witts' lack of mobility against him - especially at boundary throw-ins by detaching himself and then using his speed to get around his opponent to take prime position.
I think when discussing the job our blokes did on Witts, it's not just about stopping them, by continually harassing Witts and draining his strength he wasn't able to freely impose himself on Cripps, Cerra, Walsh and Kennedy, they had corridors of space to move in.
This is why the non-tap related stuff is so much more important than the hitouts.
When our Mids are free to go about their business without fear or hesitation, the taps become meaningless!
I think when discussing the job our blokes did on Witts, it's not just about stopping them, by continually harassing Witts and draining his strength he wasn't able to freely impose himself of Cripps, Cerra, Walsh and Kennedy, they had corridors of space to move in.
This is why the non-tap related stuff is so much more important than the hitouts.
When our Mids are free to go about their business without fear or hesitation, the taps become meaningless!
Spot on...keeping him out of the midfield hurly burly made it easier for our mids to have access to the ball and not have Witts shepherding and using his body to block opponents. He plays a bit like Nankervis who is no athlete but always has his big frame in packs being a nusiance to opposing onballers. I think it harder to do when GC play at home with the warmer conditions suiting them and teams are forced to rotate more players on and off the park and Witts being used to the heat doesnt tire as quickly.
we won great BUT we still kick to contest going forward ,we have no forward craft i will not be convinced until we beat a good side at least martin and cunners survived.
Absolutely. A sobering perspective. Yes, we need to reproduce that performance against top notch opposition. But it was a step in the right direction. Hopefully it gives the boys some confidence... especially with boldness and tackle pressure... and kicking straight for goal!
I liked that after qtr time, we became the hunters...
For me, I saw the players demeanor go from unsure, to confident to almost arrogant (ie owning the game) in 3 1/2 qtrs.
[4] Dow should get a go next week. His last quarter was pretty good: he had as many possessions as Martin had in 3 quarters. That said, Martin was so much more dangerous this week.
Almost every one of Martin's disposals ended up with a positive result for us, although there was more than a bit of luck attached to his shot at goal from just inside 50. Two of Paddy's disposals found a target; a handball to Cripps and a kick that Charlie took on the bounce. The rest were 40m kicks to contests and he wasn't really under pressure. Paddy has to make his possessions count.
we won great BUT we still kick to contest going forward ,we have no forward craft i will not be convinced until we beat a good side at least martin and cunners survived.
Yeah I dont agree with all of that. I think the fwd craft has always been there but for the most part but the poor delivery has messed up the finishing off. When the delivery was fast and clean this week, we saw plenty of fwd craft with the bigs and smalls in sync. Martins gather off Charlie's hands and dish off to Harry for a goal was sublime (such is his talent). Agree lets hope Cunners and Martin can remain uninjured and make through every game to the years end. DC definitely added another dimension. Like me, you may have blinked and missed his run, gather and dish off on the half back line in the 3rd qtr, I couldn't believe my eyes and had to watch it again. The bloke oozes class and speed, exactly what we need. May the the footy gods bless him with some luck FFS.
Thought Pitto was well beaten by Witts who was too strong against Pitto's main strength.
Impressed by TDK who used Witts' lack of mobility against him - especially at boundary throw-ins by detaching himself and then using his speed to get around his opponent to take prime position.
Very true RR!
Witts was simply too strong for Pitto and Tom used his athleticism to advantage against Witts ... and our mids sharked many of Witts's hitouts.
Yeah I dont agree with all of that. I think the fwd craft has always been there but for the most part but the poor delivery has messed up the finishing off. When the delivery was fast and clean this week, we saw plenty of fwd craft with the bigs and smalls in sync. Martins gather off Charlie's hands and dish off to Harry for a goal was sublime (such is his talent). Agree lets hope Cunners and Martin can remain uninjured and make through every game to the years end. DC definitely added another dimension. Like me, you may have blinked and missed his run, gather and dish off on the half back line in the 3rd qtr, I couldn't believe my eyes and had to watch it again. The bloke oozes class and speed, exactly what we need. May the the footy gods bless him with some luck FFS.
Stats tell a part of the story of any match.
They're not the 'be all and end all'...but one interesting stat is the "Disposal inside 50 efficiency."
It should probably be read in conjunction with the number of times inside 50.
For example in the Adelaide game we had 53 'inside 50s'...Adelaide had 51.
But their "disposal efficiency inside 50" was 64.7%...ours was 39.6%
More inside 50s but much less efficient.
Here's our "disposal inside 50 efficiency" for each game this year.
Rnd 1 v Richmond -Draw-46.7%
Rnd 2 v Geelong -W- 56.3%
Rnd 3 v GWS W- 44.3% (GWS was only 37%)
Rnd 4 v North- W- 51.9%
Rnd 5 v Adelaide- L- 39.6%
Rnd 6 v St Kilda -L- 46.2%
Rnd 7 v WCE-W- 71.4%
Rnd 8 v Brisbane-L- 44.7%
Rnd 9 v Western Bulldogs-L-42%
Rnd 10 v Collingwood-L-43.1%
Rnd 11 v Sydney-L-37.3%
Rnd 12 v Melbourne-L-41%
Rnd 13 v Essendon-L- 50%
Rnd 14 v Suns-W-63.6%
Our season average is 48.6%...we were much better yesterday with 63.6%
But with only 4 more inside 50s...55-51
Suns inside 50 efficiency was 41.2%
Almost every one of Martin's disposals ended up with a positive result for us, although there was more than a bit of luck attached to his shot at goal from just inside 50. Two of Paddy's disposals found a target; a handball to Cripps and a kick that Charlie took on the bounce. The rest were 40m kicks to contests and he wasn't really under pressure. Paddy has to make his possessions count.
Martin has to get more than eight possessions a game...last week he had eight as well with only four finding a target. Been subbed off twice which doesnt help his stats but I guess thats easing him back in given his injury history so he probably needs a few more games to assess properly.
Dow needs to be played for 4 quarters to see if he has improved, coming on for junk time last quarters when games are over doesnt really tell us much. I still think he will be struggling to maintain his spot on the list.....
We need to be more careful with our list management.
Need to cut less for the sake of it, and look at the net coming and going. I've seen fisher named as dead weight but to me he's useful just having a poor run.
If we can move on another 6 true dead weight players, then we should likely persist with these guys.
We need to be more careful with our list management.
Need to cut less for the sake of it, and look at the net coming and going. I've seen fisher named as dead weight but to me he's useful just having a poor run.
If we can move on another 6 true dead weight players, then we should likely persist with these guys.
I reckon I could find ten dead weight players but each to their own, we need to be careful when we get wins vs lowly teams
like WC and GC that we dont get seduced by players who over perform in these games and then cant get a kick vs the better teams.
We dont want to be resigning players who are down hill skiers or are the play well for a quarter types.....get a kick vs Port or Collingwood etc then you get to stay but I'm not interested in players who are heroes for a day vs WC, GC, Nth, Hawks or the like because thats not going get us anywhere going foward.
Stats tell a part of the story of any match.
They're not the 'be all and end all'...but one interesting stat is the "Disposal inside 50 efficiency."
It should probably be read in conjunction with the number of times inside 50.
For example in the Adelaide game we had 53 'inside 50s'...Adelaide had 51.
But their "disposal efficiency inside 50" was 64.7%...ours was 39.6%
More inside 50s but much less efficient.
Here's our "disposal inside 50 efficiency" for each game this year.
Rnd 1 v Richmond -Draw-46.7%
Rnd 2 v Geelong -W- 56.3%
Rnd 3 v GWS W- 44.3% (GWS was only 37%)
Rnd 4 v North- W- 51.9%
Rnd 5 v Adelaide- L- 39.6%
Rnd 6 v St Kilda -L- 46.2%
Rnd 7 v WCE-W- 71.4%
Rnd 8 v Brisbane-L- 44.7%
Rnd 9 v Western Bulldogs-L-42%
Rnd 10 v Collingwood-L-43.1%
Rnd 11 v Sydney-L-37.3%
Rnd 12 v Melbourne-L-41%
Rnd 13 v Essendon-L- 50%
Rnd 14 v Suns-W-63.6%
Our season average is 48.6%...we were much better yesterday with 63.6%
But with only 4 more inside 50s...55-51
Suns inside 50 efficiency was 41.2%
I was at the game and only saw glimpses of stats they were showing throughout the game.
I kept thinking to myself that these are the same stats we see every week. Clearances close, DE% etc etc
Then i look at the scoreboard and see how straight we have kicked, and how poorly they have kicked and it goes back to what i said last week, we are not far away, kick accurately in front of goal and it makes the world of difference. Kick accurately going inside 50 and it makes the world of difference.
I think the addition of Cuningham, and 2nd week of Martin, made the world of difference with how we moved the ball...and how
well we moved the ball. We were able to break through from contests and pinpoint a target. The results speak for themselves.
I be bringing in Fisher, to add to Cunners and Jack, and i think that gives us enough options that we can match it with any side.
Its all about team balance and we are finally starting to get it right.
That's not fair on Pitto, he's fine when used to his strengths, but he is not a running type ruck. He needs to be in the push and shove and floating across CHB to take away opposition space.
Pit is a one trick pony. Effective as a second ruck but if TDK leaves and Pit is forced to spend longer minutes on the ground as the main ruckman he will be a liability much more than an asset IMO.
As a big man you still need to contribute and be important after the ruck contest and he is useless marking target or as a forward
Coaches Votes (clean sweep)
Cez 9
Crippa 8
Doc 7
Walsh 4
Kemp 1
TDK 1
Took advantage of the rain delay at Edgbaston to flick through the replay again, limited stats aside, the inclusion of Fogarty, Cincotta, Martin and Cunningham and the rising form of Boyd really made a huge difference. A lot more pressure on opposition ball carriers and a hotter environment around the ball, good 2nd efforts, and excluding Cunningham they mostly made reasonable use of the footy when they got hold of it. In fairness to Cunningham he made up for the poor disposal with repeat efforts.
I know people will criticise me for repeating this, but we've paid a price by continually carrying Motlop and Durdin while they are in the development phase, after getting an AFL taster that development should have been happening back in the VFL. I can't say the players who came in were any better in terms of ball use, but when we didn't have possession Fogarty, Cunningham and Cincotta give repeat efforts, there is no drop off or head drop.
To me it really shows something that Durdin and Motlop need to learn, that when you bring the repeat efforts you do not really need to have a lot of footy to influence the game.
I agree on Durdin and Motlop, they were both going to where the ball wasn't. Bit of VFL will do them both good. Martin was stationed a lot deeper which helped our forward structure.
I agree on Durdin and Motlop, they were both going to where the ball wasn't. Bit of VFL will do them both good. Martin was stationed a lot deeper which helped our forward structure.
Martin has one major advantage over Small Durds and Motlop; he needs to watched closely. It is because he can get where the ball is going. Not always about to do much about when it arrives; he is small and fragile, but he is a good field kick.
Also a good mark for his size.
Martin has good footy IQ and evasive skills. Durdin and Motlop are still learning in those areas.
Martin has to get more than eight possessions a game...last week he had eight as well with only four finding a target. Been subbed off twice which doesnt help his stats but I guess thats easing him back in given his injury history so he probably needs a few more games to assess properly.
Dow needs to be played for 4 quarters to see if he has improved, coming on for junk time last quarters when games are over doesnt really tell us much. I still think he will be struggling to maintain his spot on the list.....
No, Martin doesn’t have to get more than 8 disposals provided that he uses each one as effectively as he did against Gold Coast: two goal assists and five score involvements is a decent return from a small forward with no pre-season.
The intangible with Martin is that the opposition can’t give him a sniff and that means one less defender to run interference on Charlie and Harry. And then there’s his defensive pressure when the opposition is trying to get the pill out of their backline.
Martin’s stats against Essendon are hard to reconcile. He scored 1 goal and 2 behinds and had four score involvements. In other words, half of Martin’s disposals resulted in a score. I’d happily take that from a forward with no pre-season.
Who are you going to drop to enable Dow to play four quarters?
Dow is an inside mid with no other strings to his bow and, on form, he’s way behind Cripps, Kennedy, Cerra, Docherty and Walsh … and probably Hewett and Ed Curnow as well. Paddy’s doing OK as the sub and I’d leave him there.
No, Martin doesn’t have to get more than 8 disposals provided that he uses each one as effectively as he did against Gold Coast: two goal assists and five score involvements is a decent return from a small forward with no pre-season.
The intangible with Martin is that the opposition can’t give him a sniff and that means one less defender to run interference on Charlie and Harry. And then there’s his defensive pressure when the opposition is trying to get the pill out of their backline.
Martin’s stats against Essendon are hard to reconcile. He scored 1 goal and 2 behinds and had four score involvements. In other words, half of Martin’s disposals resulted in a score. I’d happily take that from a forward with no pre-season.
Who are you going to drop to enable Dow to play four quarters?
Dow is an inside mid with no other strings to his bow and, on form, he’s way behind Cripps, Kennedy, Cerra, Docherty and Walsh … and probably Hewett and Ed Curnow as well. Paddy’s doing OK as the sub and I’d leave him there.
No defensive pressure...didnt have a tackle and cant run anymore, 8 possessions isnt good enough.....his disposal against Essendon was poor, half of them went to Essendon players.
He has been an overated, over paid player from day 1 who cant play a full season and you can count the number of good games he has played on one hand. If we want to improve and win premeirships we need to move on from players like Martin. GC away from home are like West Coast...an easy kill that we were expected to beat and if thats the best Martin can do vs bunnies then we need better.
Who am I going to drop to allow Dow to play four quarters??....I dont need any think music for this one.......S.Docherty would be returned to the half back line where he belongs and the Caleb Daniel wannabe in M. Boyd would be plying his trade in the VFL where his turnover skillset would fit in a with a few other notable turnover merchants in Plow and LOB.
Then I would delist the three of them at seasons end......
No, Martin doesn’t have to get more than 8 disposals provided that he uses each one as effectively as he did against Gold Coast: two goal assists and five score involvements is a decent return from a small forward with no pre-season.
The intangible with Martin is that the opposition can’t give him a sniff and that means one less defender to run interference on Charlie and Harry. And then there’s his defensive pressure when the opposition is trying to get the pill out of their backline.
Martin’s stats against Essendon are hard to reconcile. He scored 1 goal and 2 behinds and had four score involvements. In other words, half of Martin’s disposals resulted in a score. I’d happily take that from a forward with no pre-season.
Who are you going to drop to enable Dow to play four quarters?
Dow is an inside mid with no other strings to his bow and, on form, he’s way behind Cripps, Kennedy, Cerra, Docherty and Walsh … and probably Hewett and Ed Curnow as well. Paddy’s doing OK as the sub and I’d leave him there.
All true. However I reckon I can tell you with a fair degree of certainty that he will manage between 8 and 12 games a year. If the club feels the output mentioned above (I'm with EB in that it isn't enough) outweighs his games per year contribution then hang onto him, heck given him another 5 years.
I'd hazard a guess and say we are stuck with his contract and that's the only reason we are hanging onto him. If he was OOC this year he'd be gonski.
Martin may have had 8 touches but that got him 53 supercoach points. He has an impact and he clearly isn't anywhere near full fitness.
Martin may have had 8 touches but that got him 53 supercoach points. He has an impact and he clearly isn't anywhere near full fitness.
Thats the problem, he's NEVER at full fitness.
Martin may have had 8 touches but that got him 53 supercoach points. He has an impact and he clearly isn't anywhere near full fitness.
Maybe this is his gig, being the F50 impact player we nurse through 3/4 of a game.
He could be our Gary Rohan type, missing for 3/4 then turns the game in a 1/4 of effort.
Like him or not, when he is up and about Martin brings a significant point of difference to just about every other player on our list. I get the cynics, but if we are going to carry someone on the list it might as well be someone who can actually make a difference.
Maybe this is his gig, being the F50 impact player we nurse through 3/4 of a game.
He could be our Gary Rohan type, missing for 3/4 then turns the game in a 1/4 of effort.
Like him or not, when he is up and about Martin brings a significant point of difference to just about every other player on our list. I get the cynics, but if we are going to carry someone on the list it might as well be someone who can actually make a difference.
I would expect Martin to be playing four quarters after the bye. If he does, and if he does manage to play all of our remaining games, I would be offering him a contract extension. As you say LP, he does bring a significant point of difference and he demands a decent defender and that's one less for Charlie and Harry to beat.
Another injury and I suspect that it will be game over.
Another injury and I suspect that it will be game over.
I'd qualify that as another long term injury, all players get injuries, the type of injury matters doesn't it?
If he breaks down with an impact free soft tissue injury, then it might be bad luck for him, if he cops an impact injury in a physical contest I'm not sure he can blamed for that.
Tend to agree with you LP.....Martin is a low possession/high impact sort of player and offers a point of difference to other small/medium sized forwards on our list. It's just frustrating that he's had such a sustained injury run every year. And the comparison with Rohan is a good one.....saw again last night how much impact Rohan can have (literally) on a game with not a whole lot of possessions.
Maybe this is his gig, being the F50 impact player we nurse through 3/4 of a game.
He could be our Gary Rohan type, missing for 3/4 then turns the game in a 1/4 of effort.
Like him or not, when he is up and about Martin brings a significant point of difference to just about every other player on our list. I get the cynics, but if we are going to carry someone on the list it might as well be someone who can actually make a difference.
If he was as good as Gary Rohan I wouldn't have a problem but he isn't even close and if we offer Martin another contract then we are truly fecked list management wise and won't get anywhere.
Maybe this is his gig, being the F50 impact player we nurse through 3/4 of a game.
He could be our Gary Rohan type, missing for 3/4 then turns the game in a 1/4 of effort.
So pay him a 3/4 salary.
I would expect Martin to be playing four quarters after the bye. If he does, and if he does manage to play all of our remaining games, I would be offering him a contract extension. As you say LP, he does bring a significant point of difference and he demands a decent defender and that's one less for Charlie and Harry to beat.
Another injury and I suspect that it will be game over.
Mate he wont play every remaining game Ill give you the tip.
So pay him a 3/4 salary.
I don't mind that, as long as it is applied as a rule unambiguously without favour.
So for example, Charlie only played about 3/5ths of the available games, Hewett's missed about 1/4 of the available games, Doc has missed about 1/5th of games .............................. ! :o
Do we really want to go down that track, or are some players special?
I don't mind that, as long as it is applied as a rule unambiguously without favour.
So for example, Charlie only played about 3/5ths of the available games, Hewett's missed about 1/4 of the available games, Doc has missed about 1/5th of games .............................. ! :o
Do we really want to go down that track, or are some players special?
No, so fark Martin off at the end of this debacle of contract (sooner if possible).
No, so fark Martin off at the end of this debacle of contract (sooner if possible).
If the season ended now and he was out of contract no one would argue with that. I would delist Cunningham and Marchbank as well.
Dominator, Jim Buckley, The Hyphen, Mike Fitzpatrick, Alex Marcou, Fraser Brown, all missed lots of games for various reasons from suspension to injury, but they were crucial parts of flag winning moments when they got themselves right on the right day!
It happens.
I would be seriously questioning our list logic if for example we kybosh Martin and keep say a Marchbank, and I'm not even counting the players who can't make the cut even though they are fit, and we have several!
Doesn't Martin have another year?
If the season ended now and he was out of contract no one would argue with that. I would delist Cunningham and Marchbank as well.
I would have agreed with that 100% until I saw Cunningham's last game in the 2's. He has lightning speed and clean hands and isn't on a lucrative contract. If he stays injury free and plays every game and improves every time, I would consider a 1 to 2 year deal for him not unreasonable. Marchbank is an utter lister clogger and must be shown the door.
Doesn't Martin have another year?
You're right; Kruddler has him contracted until the end of 2024.
Read somewhere that Marchbank has played 4 senior games in 4 years for us.....we can't keep carrying him unfortunately.
Read somewhere that Marchbank has played 4 senior games in 4 years for us.....we can't keep carrying him unfortunately.
That many?😲
Read somewhere that Marchbank has played 4 senior games in 4 years for us.....we can't keep carrying him unfortunately.
2017 16
2018 12
2019 13
2020 0
2021 0
2022 4
2023 0
2017 16
2018 12
2019 13
2020 0
2021 0
2022 4
2023 0
What a pity. But we can't carry him any longer.
Cunningham is probably less
Cunningham is probably less
It would be an interesting comparison.
Cunningham
2016: 3
2017: 8
2018 5
2019: 9
2020: 12
2021: 4
2022: 0
2023: 1
Now do Charlie and Doc.
re Martin, Cuningham and even Marchbank....
Their best is best 22 worthy.
We have a heap of players who we can delist first (IMO at least) so i'd give them the luxury of another year.
Yes, Martin already has that.
Now do Charlie and Doc.
re Martin, Cuningham and even Marchbank....
Their best is best 22 worthy.
We have a heap of players who we can delist first (IMO at least) so i'd give them the luxury of another year.
Yes, Martin already has that.
Id be moving Marchbank on and seeing how Cuningham holds up for this season, anymore injuries and he is gone too.
Stuck with Martin for another year but he would be a low priority selection wise for me and Id be trying to get another half forward at trade time or pick the best kid in the draft I could to fill that position although we will probably overpay for Gresham in terms of money/years and find ourselves a new Martin like we usually do..
Marchbank can't remain.
Between him, jsos, Kemp, Newman, plowman, young, mcgovern, and durdin, he stands out as a player who is both perennially injured and also surplus to requirements.
His best was great but plenty get injured significantly and don't get back there. Getting him on the park is one thing, getting him on the park firing is quite another.
We need depth, we need players playing in the twos playing well ready to come in. Players constantly in the medical room like Marchbank, Martin, Williams, Philp must go ASAP. Cunningham goes into the same group if gets injured again this year.
Now do Charlie and Doc.
re Martin, Cuningham and even Marchbank....
Their best is best 22 worthy.
We have a heap of players who we can delist first
Like Stocker lol?
I agree those guys when fit are best 22 but we can't carry them all. If Zac Williams didn't do his Achilles twice he probably would have been one of the elites of the game.
Like Stocker lol?
I agree those guys when fit are best 22 but we can't carry them all. If Zac Williams didn't do his Achilles twice he probably would have been one of the elites of the game.
I was on record saying i would've kept Stocker, but i understand why the club got rid of him.
First on the chopping block, above those you mentioned....
Philp
Fogarty
Akieu
Honey
S. Durdin
Ed. Curnow (retire)
LOB (can't believe we gave him a 2 year deal though)
Dow (trade if possible)
Fisher (trade)
Plowman (trade)
TDK (trade - cash in, or keep on small $'s)
Silvagni (trade? or keep on small $'s)
McGovern (trade? or keep on small $'s)
I was on record saying i would've kept Stocker, but i understand why the club got rid of him.
First on the chopping block, above those you mentioned....
Philp
Fogarty
Akieu
Honey
S. Durdin
Ed. Curnow (retire)
LOB (can't believe we gave him a 2 year deal though)
Dow (trade if possible)
Fisher (trade)
Plowman (trade)
TDK (trade - cash in, or keep on small $'s)
Silvagni (trade? or keep on small $'s)
McGovern (trade? or keep on small $'s)
Martin, Marchbank and Cuningham should all be on that list but probably wont be for different reasons ie Martin contracted.
Plus Im not sold on Boyd or Cottrell either and C. Durdin needs a good 2024 to survive.
Martin, Marchbank and Cuningham should all be on that list but probably wont be for different reasons ie Martin contracted.
Plus Im not sold on Boyd or Cottrell either and C. Durdin needs a good 2024 to survive.
The point of that list was to show there is no shortage of players who can be moved on (while keeping all the players you mentioned)
The difference Martin has given the side (in 2x 3/4's only) as well as Cunners for 1 game is ridiculous. We look so much better with them in it. I've been calling for their inclusions, even when only half fit, for a long time for that very reason, but the difference they have made has even surprised me.
Marchbank could slot in effortlessly next to Weiters and Kemp....and you could even keep McGovern in the side as well as a swing option, and it would make a big difference to our backline. All of those talls could play loose if matchups allow it, giving us great versatility to combat any combination that gets thrown at us.
Boyd, Cottrell and C. Durdin are not setting the world on fire and could easily get replaced long term. But right now, they are best 30 players, so its the players below them you move on first.
The point of that list was to show there is no shortage of players who can be moved on (while keeping all the players you mentioned)
The difference Martin has given the side (in 2x 3/4's only) as well as Cunners for 1 game is ridiculous. We look so much better with them in it. I've been calling for their inclusions, even when only half fit, for a long time for that very reason, but the difference they have made has even surprised me.
Marchbank could slot in effortlessly next to Weiters and Kemp....and you could even keep McGovern in the side as well as a swing option, and it would make a big difference to our backline. All of those talls could play loose if matchups allow it, giving us great versatility to combat any combination that gets thrown at us.
Boyd, Cottrell and C. Durdin are not setting the world on fire and could easily get replaced long term. But right now, they are best 30 players, so its the players below them you move on first.
Marchbank is way too slow these days and we probably dont need another intercept marking defender plus we have Kemp and McGovern who really play the same position. What we really need is a taller KP defender to take over from Young who cant handle the big gorillas. As you know Im not sold at all on Martin and never have been, thought he was poor vs Ess and GC were an easy kill and he is going to have to show a lot more between now and seasons end to convince me otherwise as I have explained on other threads, same with Cuningham. I realise you cant shift 10-15 players in one season and its more likely to be 7-10 max so some will get a reprieve due to others being first in line...
The difference Martin has given the side (in 2x 3/4's only) as well as Cunners for 1 game is ridiculous. We look so much better with them in it. I've been calling for their inclusions, even when only half fit, for a long time for that very reason, but the difference they have made has even surprised me.
People read the criticism I post about Motlop or Durdin and assume it's anti-Motlop / Durdin, but it's clear the price the team pays playing both Durdin and Motlop as AFL beginners!
Put Cunningham and Martin in and all of a sudden you gain some reliable decision making, some composure and also some commitment, now all we need is physical reliability from them and all will be good.
None of the above means in any way that Motlop and Durdin won't be good in the future, it's just about making sure they do the correct apprenticeship and are ready for AFL when they get the next chance!
Small durdin is a good prospect. He is having a bit of a form slump. Motlop is the same as he was last year. Flashes in and out of games.
Biggest issue from both is that they are currently getting where the ball isn't.
Cincotta is a big plus, the more I see of him the more he reminds me of a young Heath Scotland.
Small durdin is a good prospect. He is having a bit of a form slump. Motlop is the same as he was last year. Flashes in and out of games.
Biggest issue from both is that they are currently getting where the ball isn't.
Motlop has shown, in bursts, that he will come along nicely. Small Durds worries me. Even at his best, there seems to be long periods in games where he's invisible... or as you put it, 3 Leos, gets where the ball aint.
Motlop has shown, in bursts, that he will come along nicely. Small Durds worries me. Even at his best, there seems to be long periods in games where he's invisible... or as you put it, 3 Leos, gets where the ball aint.
I think Durds was playing impeded by injury, I rate him higher than Motlop.