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Topic: AFL Rd 10 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood (Read 5247 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: AFL Rd 10 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #90
As was posted in the in game thread, some Pies run, dare,  positioning and ball use was (date I say it) good to watch.

We played cateful, defensive, static football.  This skews stats.

What has happened to the electric running, ball movement and hitting forwards lace out - what we saw from our opposition?  We tried half way through the third, didn't work,  but the crowd noticed and finally started getting interested.

What is the change - shifting the balance too far (we lament lack of defensive effort while playing attacking footy), structure of the side, confidence or confusion of message to the players?  Certainly don't have forward pressure.

I think we miss a player who is super quick that can chase an opponent from 50m away or who can get the footy, put on the jets and dispose of it to advantage.

Re: AFL Rd 10 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #91
Read it somewhere else on here.
We have a football IQ of porridge.
2024... Moir of the same to come

Re: AFL Rd 10 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #92
Super quick, whether in the hunt, or with ball in hand, we're a bit limited.

Saad. Philp. Dow. Cuningham.
Coming together is the beginning.
Keeping together is progress.
Working together is success.
Henry Ford.

Re: AFL Rd 10 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #93
Surely not! (opinion respected tho)
Where's their learn from the past nous?
all good.  I actually don't want it to happen but that air of inevitability is already hanging around and Carlton just has a habit of doing carlton things.

"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: AFL Rd 10 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #94
Comp is tougher now, teams have improved that were not expected too.
Even Geelong are struggling and Richmond look gone, we haven't improved to the extent some of the other teams have. There are 2-3 very poor teams but the rest I couldn't be confident of winning against and putting the house on us giving consistent effort which is what wins games as much as talent now.
We have as much talent as most but our effort factor is unreliable and I don't know how you coach effort which should be a given if you are a good team.
Not much stronger at the top but more even down the board.

Pretty much summed it up there.

Re: AFL Rd 10 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #95
Look at the stats and across the board it was an 'even' contest.
Same inside 50's
Same tackles
Similar contested possessions
Similar turnovers
Similar 1%
Similar disposal efficiency (we actually had slightly better)
Same efficiency inside 50.

Ultimately, they converted, we did not.
They were under less pressure than we were under, all over the ground, including in front of goal.

A bit more luck in front of goal, tables are turned, pressure is reversed, its game on.
But they got too much too soon and blew us out of the water. We came back but they are too good to let us make a difference.

We "won" the scoring shots...lol.

Re: AFL Rd 10 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #96
We did well when ball was in dispute. Did not hurt them enough when we had the ball and they hurt us more when they did.

When you have money ball kicks from Ed Curnow when he has ball in hand its going to turn into a turn over most of the time.

Most say why not Dow - becase he is a turn over merchant. He gets the ball at VFL and is a good competitor but his turn overs are amazingly woeful. However I think Ed out for Paddy Dow makes sense but Ed is a better competitor with a superior defensive mindset.

Re: AFL Rd 10 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #97
We did well when ball was in dispute. Did not hurt them enough when we had the ball and they hurt us more when they did.

When you have money ball kicks from Ed Curnow when he has ball in hand its going to turn into a turn over most of the time.

Most say why not Dow - becase he is a turn over merchant. He gets the ball at VFL and is a good competitor but his turn overs are amazingly woeful. However I think Ed out for Paddy Dow makes sense but Ed is a better competitor with a superior defensive mindset.
Need to win games and throw caution to the wind as they say, want to see us attack and go hard at the Swans who are undermanned and playing worse than we are. Reckon Dow might get his chance along with TDK as I saw a bit of desperation in the face of Voss at his presser and I reckon he knows these next few weeks are the season gone if we keep losing.
Better to go down swinging than just being a reactive passive team, we have enough talent just need to bring some major effort.
England have Bazball...we need to get attacking with Vossball.......

 

Re: AFL Rd 10 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #98
One last thing, we focus alot on the negatives but by crikey we do alot right also.
Disposals +22
I50s 51 each
DE +2.1%
I50 Eff 43.1% each
HOs 31 each
Clearances +8
Centre Clearance -4 (Ill guess they were all in the first qtr)
Stoppage clearances +12
TO +3 (thought is was more)
Marks -14
Tackles 57 each
1%s  +4
Often the stats seem meaningless, but they tell a story, we weren't obliterated by the best team in the comp.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: AFL Rd 10 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #99
One last thing, we focus alot on the negatives but by crikey we do alot right also.
Disposals +22
I50s 51 each
DE +2.1%
I50 Eff 43.1% each
HOs 31 each
Clearances +8
Centre Clearance -4 (Ill guess they were all in the first qtr)
Stoppage clearances +12
TO +3 (thought is was more)
Marks -14
Tackles 57 each
1%s  +4
Often the stats seem meaningless, but they tell a story, we weren't obliterated by the best team in the comp.

We get a lot of junk stats, DE% are up because we kick the ball so short and wide. Most of Acres kicks go 15m
 backwards for example.
I looked at the stat sheet too and it looked even but it's when and where in the game and the big moments it doesn't really tell the story like when McGovern squibbed a contest or when we kicked it to Moore a trillion times...

Re: AFL Rd 10 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #100
One last thing, we focus alot on the negatives but by crikey we do alot right also.
Disposals +22
I50s 51 each
DE +2.1%
I50 Eff 43.1% each
HOs 31 each
Clearances +8
Centre Clearance -4 (Ill guess they were all in the first qtr)
Stoppage clearances +12
TO +3 (thought is was more)
Marks -14
Tackles 57 each
1%s  +4
Often the stats seem meaningless, but they tell a story, we weren't obliterated by the best team in the comp.


A lot of it just comes down to the skill execution.
The effort is there.

Horne-Francis picks up the ball with one grab in the wet the other night and gives it off for a goal
Our blokes watch as it it goes between their legs and dribbles over the boundary line.
Jus two moments that stick with you, but are indicative of the different skill level we're playing at present.

Just watching our disposals, and why stats can sometimes tell a false story....
Watch the replay and pay attention to the number of time our players have to stretch and reach for passes.
It's only a fraction of a second, an instant, but it's enough to slow the player rather than taking it cleanly at speed.
That's an effective disposal.
But it's one that slows the receiving players momentum while he gathers to play on, often resulting with them being caught or turning the ball over.

Re: AFL Rd 10 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #101
Good post Lods.

There are varying degrees of effective. You only have to watch us to see we are not effective in any meaningful way.
I have been top deck the last 2 weeks and that's where you see how poor we actually are.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: AFL Rd 10 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #102
Most stats are measures of inputs. The outcomes are the important ones and we are currently failing in those.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: AFL Rd 10 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #103
A lot of it just comes down to the skill execution.
The effort is there.

Horne-Francis picks up the ball with one grab in the wet the other night and gives it off for a goal
Our blokes watch as it it goes between their legs and dribbles over the boundary line.
Jus two moments that stick with you, but are indicative of the different skill level we're playing at present.

Just watching our disposals, and why stats can sometimes tell a false story....
Watch the replay and pay attention to the number of time our players have to stretch and reach for passes.
It's only a fraction of a second, an instant, but it's enough to slow the player rather than taking it cleanly at speed.
That's an effective disposal.
But it's one that slows the receiving players momentum while he gathers to play on, often resulting with them being caught or turning the ball over.
Coll kick goals 2, 3 and 4 (ie 3 in row) in the first qtr without Carl touching the footy once, that tells a story. We outscored them, all be it by a couple of point, in the second half. How many goals did they kick from the goal square due to 50m penalties or terrible defending (the Johnson hanger in the 2nd, not one player blocked his run). Attention to detail, being switched on.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: AFL Rd 10 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #104
Coll kick goals 2, 3 and 4 (ie 3 in row) in the first qtr without Carl touching the footy once, that tells a story. We outscored them, all be it by a couple of point, in the second half. How many goals did they kick from the goal square due to 50m penalties or terrible defending (the Johnson hanger in the 2nd, not one player blocked his run). Attention to detail, being switched on.
They just did what they had to do in the second half, we never looked like mounting a comeback.
Just a really disappointing effort from the players...