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Topic: AFL Rd 3 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne (Read 6097 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: AFL Rd 3 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne

Reply #30
I'd have him straight in if fit. Can't be any less productive than our smaller forwards at the moment.

For me it will be Martin In, Fantasia Out
The Force Awakens!

Re: AFL Rd 3 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne

Reply #31
Could they not do that while we have the bye?

I'd have him straight in if fit. Can't be any less productive than our smaller forwards at the moment.

The Reserves have a bye too  ::)

Of course the AFL wouldn't give us an opportunity to get a game into returning players ...
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

Re: AFL Rd 3 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne

Reply #32
The Reserves have a bye too  ::)

Of course the AFL wouldn't give us an opportunity to get a game into returning players ...

On the contrary one might say we are playing a VFL standard side next Friday.



Re: AFL Rd 3 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne

Reply #33
On the contrary one might say we are playing a VFL standard side next Friday.
That line of thought will be our undoing!  ::)
2024... Moir of the same to come

Re: AFL Rd 3 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne

Reply #34
Will Zac Fisher line up against us?

Was reasonable against GWS, gained nearly 500m running off the D50 side of centre.

Who would he stand, Owies, Cunningham, Fogarty?
The Force Awakens!

 

Re: AFL Rd 3 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne

Reply #35
Will Zac Fisher line up against us?

Was reasonable against GWS, gained nearly 500m running off the D50 side of centre.

Who would he stand, Owies, Cunningham, Fogarty?
From the Hun.
The former Blue had 17 kicks against the Giants, but five of them resulted in a direct turnover.

Re: AFL Rd 3 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne

Reply #36
From the Hun.
The former Blue had 17 kicks against the Giants, but five of them resulted in a direct turnover.

Familiar territory for Fish; zero tackles and seven clangers.

Whoever gets him next week will be primed to exploit his poor defensive work while limiting his run out of defence.

It will be sad to see Fish in North colours though.
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

Re: AFL Rd 3 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne

Reply #37
From the Hun.
The former Blue had 17 kicks against the Giants, but five of them resulted in a direct turnover.
I watched the first half of the first qtr, Fish turned it over every time he got it.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: AFL Rd 3 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne

Reply #38
We have been good at scoring from turnover of late - how much are we going to score off Fisher's own boot?

Re: AFL Rd 3 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne

Reply #39
Zac Williams had 5 from 15 possessions
Saad had 8 from 24 possessions.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: AFL Rd 3 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne

Reply #40
Zac Fisher actually had 9 from 21 disposals.

2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: AFL Rd 3 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne

Reply #41
It's the nature of the modern game, I wouldn't read too much into the turnovers unless some has drastically different figures from the wider AFL averages, Fans think everybody should be going at 80%, it's a fantasy for most players week in week out, 80% is a highlight game.

On the figures, people think I'm anti-Fantasia but at the moment for a player of Fantasia's experience his numbers are shocking, no matter how cheaply he has arrived the team has to have even contributors or it fatigues everybody else. Owies, Cunningham or Fogarty's work rate is worth 10x the odd Fantasia highlight, even if they didn't have the same goal assists.
The Force Awakens!

Re: AFL Rd 3 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne

Reply #42
We have been good at scoring from turnover of late - how much are we going to score off Fisher's own boot?

David King showed our scoring from turn overs is up 35 percent from last year. Also he attended a preseason session and Voss was focusing on ball movement only using handballs and he showed footage of us implementing it last week.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: AFL Rd 3 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne

Reply #43
David King showed our scoring from turn overs is up 35 percent from last year. Also he attended a preseason session and Voss was focusing on ball movement only using handballs and he showed footage of us implementing it last week.
I think this is mostly due to stability in the playing and coaching group.

The focus on training specific tactics, or developing new tactics, isn't anything special, you just have to be around long enough for it to happen. On the flipside, stay around too long and the innovation can stall.
The Force Awakens!

Re: AFL Rd 3 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne

Reply #44
It's the nature of the modern game, I wouldn't read too much into the turnovers unless some has drastically different figures from the wider AFL averages, Fans think everybody should be going at 80%, it's a fantasy for most players week in week out, 80% is a highlight game.

On the figures, people think I'm anti-Fantasia but at the moment for a player of Fantasia's experience his numbers are shocking, no matter how cheaply he has arrived the team has to have even contributors or it fatigues everybody else. Owies, Cunningham or Fogarty's work rate is worth 10x the odd Fantasia highlight, even if they didn't have the same goal assists.

Actually, Fantasia's numbers aren't "shocking" if you look at the play and not just the statistics.

As David King has highlighted, we are using chains of handballs in different scenarios; forward handballs when there's an opportunity to run, lateral handballs to find a free player, etc.  You will have also noticed handballs backwards over the player's shoulder.  Fantasia has been playing deep in defence and he has taken possession with no likelihood of going forward apart from a dump kick.  In that situation, he has handballed over his shoulder (as have several of his teammates so it's probably something they practice.  The ball may reach a teammate but, more often than not, there's disputed possession and a ball up.  That is counted as an ineffective disposal because it didn't reach the intended target, even though there may never have been an intended target.  Handballing over the shoulder, perhaps to a voice, is a higher percentage play, in that situation, than a kick or handball forward.  We invariably have an outnumber behind the ball running the ball out of defence and can force a stoppage.  We can then set up in the knowledge that we're more likely to win the clearance.

So, what goes down as an ineffective disposal is actually a rehearsed, higher percentage play than the other options available.

I think that it was Newman or Hollands who passed to Saad only to have Vlastuin leave his man and effect a spoil.  It was a short kick and, as Saad didn't win possession, it's counted as an ineffective disposal.  If it had been a long kick with the same outcome, it would go down as an effective disposal.  In both cases, the kicker doesn't determine the outcome.

Cuningham and Fogarty have different roles to Fantasia so there's not really much point in comparing them.  Owies and Fantasia have similar roles, and both have been off the pace in my view.  Owies managed to hit the scoreboard against the Tigers but Fantasia's kicking for goal has been unreliable and that is usually one of his strongpoints.   Fantasia has had more of the ball but Owies has never been high possession winner.  Fantasia hasn't made the most of his possessions but, as outlined above, disposal efficiency isn't a terribly reliable statistic.  Fantasia and Owies are neck and neck when it comes to clangers, Owies has more turnovers, Fantasia has more intercepts, and Owies has more tackles.

Is Owies' workrate worth 10X Fantasia's?  No, if anything Fantasia's workrate is higher because he's the one getting back in defence as Owies was doing last season.  Perhaps that's a fitness thing and Owies will improve as he gets games under his belt, Fantasia should improve too.

Owies' two goals may save him but, if Motlop is fit, Owies and Fantasia are the two players most likely to make way.
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball