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Topic: AFL Rd 7 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast in Perth (Read 2909 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: AFL Rd 7 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast in Perth

Reply #60
Not quite. 

De Koning was "managed" the week before and wasn't in the 22.  Cowan is "managed" this week. O'Brien was the sub and he has been omitted and Motlop is out suspended.  Kennedy is also omitted but he is going to be the sub.  Therefore:

Outs: Cowan (managed), Motlop (suspended), Kennedy (omitted), O'Brien (omitted sub)

Ins: Docherty, Saad, Kemp ... and Kennedy will be the sub.

I suspect that a couple of players won't be in their normal roles.



...and I'm glad Dimma and Vossy spoke up about the whole sub mystery rubbish.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: AFL Rd 7 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast in Perth

Reply #61
The one thing I hope for more than anything with this game is that Vossy is much more his true self... less of matey/nice with the players and more his ruthless hard edge that delivered him leadership and Brownlows. No compromise. Get that fierceness and boldness back into our game.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: AFL Rd 7 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast in Perth

Reply #62
The one thing I hope for more than anything with this game is that Vossy is much more his true self... less of matey/nice with the players and more his ruthless hard edge that delivered him leadership and Brownlows. No compromise. Get that fierceness and boldness back into our game.
Thats a balancing act, the key is making the players want to run through brick walls for you. To be a good coach, you need to:
- be an excellent communicator, clear and concise no matter if its going good or bad.
- have relationships with every player on the list.
- be a strong tactician during the week and one game day.
- be an excellent motivator.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: AFL Rd 7 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast in Perth

Reply #63
I think we should use Kennedy a lot more up forward than we do, everyone talks about Cripps resting down there etc but Kennedy can actually kick straight, take a mark and has some forward craft.
When he returned to the team after being ignored for a while a few seasons back he was real good value forward before getting injured again. I think he is in our best 22 and a under rated component of the team and I would have dropped Ed Curnow this week who had a real average game and this is after we had Kennedy play down back and out of position.

Yep. I've been pushing that Kennedy/Forward barrow for a while. He was a FF growing up. Can take a solid grab and is an accurate kick. Whats not to like? As far as i can see the only problem is we could end up being too 'tall/slow' and our mids can't hit a player on the lead.

Re: AFL Rd 7 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast in Perth

Reply #64
Yep. I've been pushing that Kennedy/Forward barrow for a while. He was a FF growing up. Can take a solid grab and is an accurate kick. Whats not to like? As far as i can see the only problem is we could end up being too 'tall/slow' and our mids can't hit a player on the lead.
   Agree on the too tall angle and it's horses for courses and he would be replacing one of our taller forwards as an option . Jack could have a rest and MK in his spot and I'd look at a smaller forward line for a different more mobile look at times and take Harry or Charlie off as well if they were not giving us much.
One tall, Kennedy and the smalls might make us less predictable and might stop our mids bombing the ball...I say might.

Re: AFL Rd 7 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast in Perth

Reply #65
   Agree on the too tall angle and it's horses for courses and he would be replacing one of our taller forwards as an option . Jack could have a rest and MK in his spot and I'd look at a smaller forward line for a different more mobile look at times and take Harry or Charlie off as well if they were not giving us much.
One tall, Kennedy and the smalls might make us less predictable and might stop our mids bombing the ball...I say might.

Not to harp on about it too much, but its yet another reason why i think TDK in the side hurts more than helps. It limits the moves we can make because we have to 'hide' him.

Its one thing i like about Jack going into the ruck when Pittonet needs a rest. It makes us smaller and allows for Cripps/Kennedy to get some forward time.

It appears the club is starting to use Young as the 2nd ruck, with McKay taking it deep forward. Adding in Kemp to cover for Young down back. It doesn't really bode well Kennedy forward as we have 3 talls anchored there already.

Re: AFL Rd 7 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast in Perth

Reply #66
Its one thing i like about Jack going into the ruck when Pittonet needs a rest.
SoJ is worthless in the ruck because we lose momentum massively and during that period our opposition get a free ride gaining momentum while expending very little energy. SoJ in the ruck just builds opposition confidence, and when Pitto comes back on, the opposition are standing a foot taller and are up and running.

You win the ruck by putting your foot on the oppositions throat and never ever ever easing the pressure off, not by giving them a smoko once or twice a quarter. The last thing any team needs are opposition big blokes who are full of confidence!
The Force Awakens!

Re: AFL Rd 7 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast in Perth

Reply #67
Young can play ruck when McGovern is in but that is usually only for about half the season.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: AFL Rd 7 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast in Perth

Reply #68
Young can play ruck when McGovern is in but that is usually only for about half the season.
This is the heart of our problem, it's not that the blokes we have aren't good enough, the problem is that they aren't there consistently enough!

Some of this comes down to team tactics and philosophy, we use our rucks like blunt instruments, the exact opposite of how the Handbaggers use their rucks.

Our game tactics better suit a Nankervis type, but the problem is that type of ruck is typically always getting injuries, so you need two or three of them on the list. Only having one won't do you any good unless the have a freakish injury free season!
The Force Awakens!

Re: AFL Rd 7 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast in Perth

Reply #69
Sure play one ruck, we know where that got us in the last few games of 2022. Some teams can get away with it, I dont believe we can.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: AFL Rd 7 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast in Perth

Reply #70
Playing Young in the ruck is a big ask.  He normally spends the entire game on the ground and adding to his workload could affect his defensive work.

Young is more than capable as a ruckman and Jack did OK covering for him in defence.  Kemp is another who can cover for him in defence but I have a feeling that Kemp could spend time in the forward line.

It will be interesting to see how the magnets are arranged and how they might get moved around.

Kennedy as sub is much better than O’Brien.  Chugga can fill most roles in the event of an injury and he does have the ability to make an impact, particularly if he can exploit a tired opponent.
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

Re: AFL Rd 7 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast in Perth

Reply #71
Good luck to Young on his 50th and Kemp for earning a call up.

We start this game outside the 8, sliding by the hour.

If we don't win this convincingly, my optimism will be shot. We'll also find ourselves in the oh so familiar 11th position.
Last year we won by 63. That's the benchmark IMO.

Go Blues
Coming together is the beginning.
Keeping together is progress.
Working together is success.
Henry Ford.

Re: AFL Rd 7 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast in Perth

Reply #72
Not to harp on about it too much, but its yet another reason why i think TDK in the side hurts more than helps. It limits the moves we can make because we have to 'hide' him.

Its one thing i like about Jack going into the ruck when Pittonet needs a rest. It makes us smaller and allows for Cripps/Kennedy to get some forward time.

It appears the club is starting to use Young as the 2nd ruck, with McKay taking it deep forward. Adding in Kemp to cover for Young down back. It doesn't really bode well Kennedy forward as we have 3 talls anchored there already.

Agree ....Jack going into the ruck is a time you can use Kennedy forward for sure, Im all for Young and Harry expanding their duties and doing a bit of ruck work...not over doing it but just every now and then when we have injuries or need a lift.
Every team needs a few allrounders that can provide cover when called upon and Young in particular is capable of more than one role and we need to be more daring and try different things.

Re: AFL Rd 7 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast in Perth

Reply #73
SoJ is worthless in the ruck because we lose momentum massively and during that period our opposition get a free ride gaining momentum while expending very little energy. SoJ in the ruck just builds opposition confidence, and when Pitto comes back on, the opposition are standing a foot taller and are up and running.

You win the ruck by putting your foot on the oppositions throat and never ever ever easing the pressure off, not by giving them a smoko once or twice a quarter. The last thing any team needs are opposition big blokes who are full of confidence!

This seems to be a popular opinion, but the numbers don't back that up.
Yes, our momentum might suffer compared to when Pittonet is in, but not compared to when TDK is in.

SOJ vs TDK in the ruck yields the same result.
TDK gets more hitouts, but also loses more hitouts to advantage.
Jack gets less, but concedes less.
Jack also get more clearances when the ball hits the deck.
So ultimately, TDK might get you more clearances via a hitout to advantage, but Jack gets you more clearances from himself once the ball hits the deck.


Re: AFL Rd 7 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast in Perth

Reply #74
This seems to be a popular opinion, but the numbers don't back that up.
Yes, our momentum might suffer compared to when Pittonet is in, but not compared to when TDK is in.

SOJ vs TDK in the ruck yields the same result.
TDK gets more hitouts, but also loses more hitouts to advantage.
Jack gets less, but concedes less.
Jack also get more clearances when the ball hits the deck.
So ultimately, TDK might get you more clearances via a hitout to advantage, but Jack gets you more clearances from himself once the ball hits the deck.



I keep telling you that there is a statistical bias with Jack's ruck work.  It's weighted to his early work and lately he's been getting beaten quite badly.  We've been running that trick for 60 odd games now.  He once tagged fyfe out of a game but if we set him a tagging role every week opponents will start to exploit it.

These things aren't static.  What worked 2 years ago won't be the same today.  Jsos as a ruck is an experiment that's finished and even our mc can see it which is why young has started chopping out pitto lately.

"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson