Skip to main content
Topic: AFL Rd 10 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood (Read 7258 times) previous topic - next topic
0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Re: AFL Rd 10 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #30
Our small forwards don't do enough and that's the reality, they don't get the ball enough. If we had something better they wouldn't be getting a game.
Some people want Martin back...that's a real endorsement..
Our seconds got knocked over by a bunch of high school kids, there isn't any pressure for positions and we don't have any depth.

They're not bad kids and all that but they are so far off AFL standard it's driving me nuts. They need to continue to improve their craft at VFL.

Not sure what this recruitment team is going to do. But not renewing or trading a player or two out like TDK and Gov only if we can bring in small forward class like Rachele and maybe Flanders on the cheap makes sense to me.

Re: AFL Rd 10 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #31
our forwards need to be ruthless ,defensive pressure collingwood like to start attacking from there defence (daicos ,noble,Quaynor) run and run so stick to your man fwds lets go old school footy ,lets stuff coll game plan . One more thing do you think Voss and co watched 3Q of the ess v coll game and learn how ess was 28 pts up at 3/4 time might help.

Re: AFL Rd 10 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #32
our slow ball movement is another problem.  By the time we make up out mind what to do all options are closed.

It's like they don't want to kick to a contest, chip around for a better option then ultimately kick it to a pack of 20 players.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: AFL Rd 10 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #33
I'm not sure what's going on. You can argue about what came first  (list or game style), but we have slow big bodied mids that are ideal for a contested game. Kicking to the boundary and forcing stoppage after stoppage seems reasonable under the circumstances. Fast ball movement if the opposition is pressing up, giving Harry and Charlie one on one contests, also makes sense. I can only assume that Voss doesn't have confidence in our ability to limit damage on turnover, so rather than risky footy, he wants the boys to play it safe looking for an uncontested mark. Playing the uncontested game requires good pace and good endurance, because you're constantly trying to get separation on your opponent.

*Scratches head and armpits in the vain hope of finding an answer.*

Re: AFL Rd 10 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #34
I'm not sure what's going on. You can argue about what came first  (list or game style), but we have slow big bodied mids that are ideal for a contested game. Kicking to the boundary and forcing stoppage after stoppage seems reasonable under the circumstances. Fast ball movement if the opposition is pressing up, giving Harry and Charlie one on one contests, also makes sense. I can only assume that Voss doesn't have confidence in our ability to limit damage on turnover, so rather than risky footy, he wants the boys to play it safe looking for an uncontested mark. Playing the uncontested game requires good pace and good endurance, because you're constantly trying to get separation on your opponent.

*Scratches head and armpits in the vain hope of finding an answer.*

Unfortunately we don't want to face the answer. Our good players make us too slow when they play together. Cripps, Kennedy, Hewitt and Cerra are fantastic players but are one paced and can't really play elsewhere.
Think Wallis at the dogs a few years ago. Even our 95 side we worked out that Barry Mitchell who was a ball magnet couldn't play in the same side as Williams because they got exposed for pace.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: AFL Rd 10 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #35
Small forwards might be part of the issue but thought Owies was great the other night. He's kicked 9 goals in 3 and a bit games this season.

Was bemused when I read the best player list and saw Docherty on there (thought he had a shocker with fumbles and turnovers) and Cottrell wasn't on there...thought he was close to our best in the first half when the rest were sh#thouse.

McKay needs a spell in the VFL...even if it's one game. Go back, take a ton of marks on some inexperienced bloke and just kick a bag of goals for the confidence. He looks shot to bits at the moment. Even if it means TDK comes in and plays as a tall forward and part-time in the ruck.

I'd back Weitering in. It was this game last year where he got injured and it went downhill from there with injuries to tall defenders.

Re: AFL Rd 10 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #36
Unfortunately we don't want to face the answer. Our good players make us too slow when they play together. Cripps, Kennedy, Hewitt and Cerra are fantastic players but are one paced and can't really play elsewhere.
Think Wallis at the dogs a few years ago. Even our 95 side we worked out that Barry Mitchell who was a ball magnet couldn't play in the same side as Williams because they got exposed for pace.

I do understand your point. I think lack of midfield pace is one issue, the other one is sloppy ball use / decision making. Our list does have players with pace, but they either have other deficiencies that mean they're not best 22 (think Dow) or they're injured (think Cuningham). If were we able to field our best, balanced 22, and tidy up disposal, we would play deep in finals IMO.

EDIT : and our best 22 may mean that one of the slow mids misses out, as you hint.

Re: AFL Rd 10 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #37
PP....to follow up on that, I found Ed as a strange choice for the sub to be honest. Hollands might've been due for a rest but Ed doesn't really add that extra pace, even if he's fresh off the bench. Someone like a Kemp or Boyd is more appealing IMO. Obviously hindsight is wonderful if you lose a tall early in the game and only have a small as the sub....but someone with some real legs in the last quarter would've been handy.

Re: AFL Rd 10 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #38
Small forwards might be part of the issue but thought Owies was great the other night. He's kicked 9 goals in 3 and a bit games this season.

Was bemused when I read the best player list and saw Docherty on there (thought he had a shocker with fumbles and turnovers) and Cottrell wasn't on there...thought he was close to our best in the first half when the rest were sh#thouse.

McKay needs a spell in the VFL...even if it's one game. Go back, take a ton of marks on some inexperienced bloke and just kick a bag of goals for the confidence. He looks shot to bits at the moment. Even if it means TDK comes in and plays as a tall forward and part-time in the ruck.

I'd back Weitering in. It was this game last year where he got injured and it went downhill from there with injuries to tall defenders.
Our small forwards need to get a lot more accountable this game...we are going to have Noble, Quaynor and N. Daicos running loose if they dont stick close and make life hard for them.
I think Cottrell may get a look at Nick Daicos.....he hasnt had much joy with brother Josh or Sidebottom over the journey but I think
Cottrell might be best suited to follow Nick around and then have someone rotate with him so he has a rest and then can go back on him again. Keeping the Daicos kids to less than 45 possies total will go a long way to winning the game.
Weitering is defending ok its just his disposal has been Liam Jones like of late and a real liability and its probably not going to get any easier given how Collingwood pressure and force turn overs but he is a class act and Id back him in to recover some composure and settle again.

Re: AFL Rd 10 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #39
PP....to follow up on that, I found Ed as a strange choice for the sub to be honest. Hollands might've been due for a rest but Ed doesn't really add that extra pace, even if he's fresh off the bench. Someone like a Kemp or Boyd is more appealing IMO. Obviously hindsight is wonderful if you lose a tall early in the game and only have a small as the sub....but someone with some real legs in the last quarter would've been handy.

I don't feel qualified to really offer an opinion on the sub. It's a new thing, and I guess the clubs are still figuring it out as well. Ed Curnow can run all game, just not very quickly. So yes, I'm not sure what the thinking was.

Re: AFL Rd 10 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #40
Small forwards might be part of the issue but thought Owies was great the other night. He's kicked 9 goals in 3 and a bit games this season.
More importantly, 9 goals 1 behind. Extremely accurate is Matty, a rare commodity.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: AFL Rd 10 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #41
It's like they don't want to kick to a contest, chip around for a better option then ultimately kick it to a pack of 20 players.
I think it's because our players had a crap off season so we are trying to control the tempo to give us a chance to win. 

The tell was docherty and Saad coming back so quick on the back of injuries that usually cost weeks and weeks. 

We look like we are in very poor condition generally. The bulldogs easily found another gear when it was needed. 

Fans on here told me their mindsets when they were more annoyed by throwing the last 10 minutes away, but for me it was too late.  That first half was so bad that I wasn't worried about the result.  1 goal from 20 plus inside 50s is way too wasteful.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: AFL Rd 10 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #42
More importantly, 9 goals 1 behind. Extremely accurate is Matty, a rare commodity.

Agree. We need a couple more to keep him company.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: AFL Rd 10 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #43
We traditionally have problems against the same players every time against this mob.  That's crap coaching.

For starters, I'd be playing TdK and H as a tag team on Moore and play way up the ground, maybe on a wing as an outlet option for defence.  Surely they can out mark anybody if Moore doesn't follow them down the ground?  Make the pies react to us and buy more real estate in the corridor not the wings.  Going wide doesn't work.

Charlie stays inside 50.  Clear it out   Deal with that pies.  Make them sweat.

Owies + 1 as hit up/ground level options.  Owies consistently finds space.

Kennedy starts across half forward as an additional hit up option.

Kemp plays as, probably as the sub, he's more versatile size-wise as a defender. Young may be the one to miss.

Park somebody on Daicos and make him accountable, maybe Docherty is smart enough to hurt him by sneaking some shots on goal if Daicos gets loose?  And Docherty can be effective in all parts of the ground.

No kick chasing in defence - none.  Maybe MacG for deGoey, he's about the right size.

I was tempted to pick Dow but all midfielders are going to have to run very hard both ways for us to win this, but Dow running forwards at every opportunity is something I like the sound of.




DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Re: AFL Rd 10 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #44
We traditionally have problems against the same players every time against this mob.  That's crap coaching.

For starters, I'd be playing TdK and H as a tag team on Moore and play way up the ground, maybe on a wing as an outlet option for defence.  Surely they can out mark anybody if Moore doesn't follow them down the ground?  Make the pies react to us and buy more real estate in the corridor not the wings.  Going wide doesn't work.

Charlie stays inside 50.  Clear it out   Deal with that pies.  Make them sweat.

Owies + 1 as hit up/ground level options.  Owies consistently finds space.

Kennedy starts across half forward as an additional hit up option.

Kemp plays as, probably as the sub, he's more versatile size-wise as a defender. Young may be the one to miss.

Park somebody on Daicos and make him accountable, maybe Docherty is smart enough to hurt him by sneaking some shots on goal if Daicos gets loose?  And Docherty can be effective in all parts of the ground.

No kick chasing in defence - none.  Maybe MacG for deGoey, he's about the right size.

I was tempted to pick Dow but all midfielders are going to have to run very hard both ways for us to win this, but Dow running forwards at every opportunity is something I like the sound of.





I like the idea of Doc to Daicos. The obvious one to me was Cottrell.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time