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Re: AFL Rd 12 Post Game Passing Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #60 –
Geelong and Melbourne were both slammed for the same thing the year before their flags.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: AFL Rd 12 Post Game Passing Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #61 –
Quote from: Thryleon on
thats not the point though lods.  With 8 wins we are still a moon shot of making it.  It will put us on 12.5 wins.  Also I just checked ladders going back at least 5 seasons.  You haven't needed more than 12 wins to make finals any year going back to 2018.  Why is this year going to need 14 wins to make it?

No point just giving it up, from here the boys dig deep or we play more developing talent and try push for it.

12.5 may do it
12-13 is usually the standard.
It's been done with less.

But there's an extra game this year.
2020 there were only 17 games so don't count that.

Try this little exercise.
Do a ladder predictor...give us the 12.5 wins
Where do we finish?
How many wins make the 8?

Re: AFL Rd 12 Post Game Passing Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #62 –
Quote from: Lods on
12.5 may do it
12-13 is usually the standard.
It's been done with less.

But there's an extra game this year.
2020 there were only 17 games so don't count that.

Try this little exercise.
Do a ladder predictor...give us the 12.5 wins
Where do we finish?
How many wins make the 8?
Sorry Lods, your being fanciful. I dont need to do a ladder predictor, I did one for you all 4-5 weeks ago:

https://www.carltonsc.com/index.php?topic=6381.0

The year was over from a finals perspective then. Even that prediction seems ambitious now, we will be lucky to eek our 8 or 9 wins.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: AFL Rd 12 Post Game Passing Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #63 –
What was the crowd size last night? Anyone go?

I wasn’t disappointed to not be there. It looked like a miserable frustrating game to sit through in the cold.

Re: AFL Rd 12 Post Game Passing Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #64 –
Crowd was 49,872 and it was a Demons home game.

Re: AFL Rd 12 Post Game Passing Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #65 –
Quote from: shawny on
Voss has us playing a safe slow wide gameplan which typically is used when coaches don’t trust they teams ball use see their as having major holes and lacking leg speed. This gameplan reduces mistakes and keep the opposition to as low a score as possible. Even if we snare a win It’s awful to watch. He knows we are slow and can get caught badly on turnovers esp thru the middle so we only dare go there when the game is pretty much over and have nothing to lose. There is no flair no exciting passages of play. Boring and frustrating for fans to watch a list that is supposed to be deeply entrenched in finals this year play this sort of brand.

Haven’t even hit the bye and finals are now gone and we may finish the season just a few positions above the basket case teams.

I’ve finally now lost the passion I had and don’t get anywhere near as annoyed when we lose cause i fully expect it now.  I still love my club and always will but I now have accepted this rebuild is a fail and the current list will not be successful in any sense of the word. Worst part is the players think the same and play accordingly. 
Remember SOS's words in the Footy Classified interview where he said something like "I could build a list to play finals like that" (clicking his fingers). Really SOS? All you did was build a list full of fragile, slow, ball butchers.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: AFL Rd 12 Post Game Passing Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #66 –
Some stats from last nights game.

Paddy Dow (37% game time) had 9 disposals (4 kicks, 5 handballs) and managed 2 turnovers. Highlights why he is considered a liability at senior level. Give him some more time to prove himself, but don't expect too much.

TDK finally got 1st ruck duties as sole ruck, and this was helped by SOJ going down.  - he played 83% game time.
Effort, was good. Output, still lacking IMO.
Ruck craft was good considering his opponents.....although 
RC - 59
HTA - 13
RC-HTA % = 22% Which is very good.
However
Gawn - 24%
Grundy - 21%
Which is very poor, and backs up my concerns with him. When he is good, its good (that is HO -> HTA is good), but his ruck ability to nullify his opponents was very poor.
Our clearance numbers were below our average.
Dees clearance numbers were above their average.
We lost them by 9.

But we shouldn't judge TDK on his ruck craft as its his ability around the ground where he shows his dominance, (or is a perceived upgrade on Pittonet)
Unfortunately, he managed a mere 8 possessions, with 2 turnovers. Only 2 marks. These are all below Pittonets averages.

But, like Dow, i'm happy to continue with TDK and give him an extended run at it, but he has a lot more work to do to legitimately deserve a spot in the 22.

On the flipside, it was good to see Harry gain some kind of form.
12 touches from 9 marks, 3.2

Brodie Kemp took 10 marks last night, 3 contested, 6 intercepted. Developing well.
If we could get Young up to scratch, or find another genuine KPB we'd be afforded the luxury of forcing Gov to move on as he is also becoming a bit of a liability at times. At least he has a point of difference with his marking and kicking skills.

Re: AFL Rd 12 Post Game Passing Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #67 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton on
Sorry Lods, your being fanciful. I dont need to do a ladder predictor, I did one for you all 4-5 weeks ago:

https://www.carltonsc.com/index.php?topic=6381.0

The year was over from a finals perspective then. Even that prediction seems ambitious now, we will be lucky to eek our 8 or 9 wins.
You've misjudged me. ;D
I don't think we can make it.
I don't think we can make it even with the ambitious12.5 wins :(

Re: AFL Rd 12 Post Game Passing Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #68 –
Quote from: Lods on
You've misjudged me. ;D
I don't think we can make it.
I don't think we can make it even with the ambitious12.5 wins :(

Minimum 12 wins required this year. With our .5 win, it means we'll need 12.5 wins as you suggest as 11.5 won't be good enough.
So that means we need 8 from our last 11 to be in with a shot.
We play Pies, Dees, Freo (away) which are all losses which means we need to beat everyone else just to make it.
We should get 5 wins pretty easily .(GCx2, GWS, WC, HAW)
Its the remaining 3 games where we will most likely fall down (Ess, StK, PA (here))

But, hey, if we can make it from there, we will be on one hell of a run and there'd be no doubt why you couldn't continue that deep into finals ala Dogs of 2016.

Re: AFL Rd 12 Post Game Passing Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #69 –
Quote from: kruddler on
Minimum 12 wins required this year. With our .5 win, it means we'll need 12.5 wins as you suggest as 11.5 won't be good enough.
So that means we need 8 from our last 11 to be in with a shot.
We play Pies, Dees, Freo (away) which are all losses which means we need to beat everyone else just to make it.
We should get 5 wins pretty easily .(GCx2, GWS, WC, HAW)
Its the remaining 3 games where we will most likely fall down (Ess, StK, PA (here))

But, hey, if we can make it from there, we will be on one hell of a run and there'd be no doubt why you couldn't continue that deep into finals ala Dogs of 2016.
Won't beat GC up Nth....

Re: AFL Rd 12 Post Game Passing Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #70 –
I watched some bits and pieces again this morning, it's quite bizarre how flat we look, like we are resigned to defeat before we even roll on the park. You could describe it as a malaise!

I just don't get it, what goes on behind closed doors to cause such a mindset, I find it hard to believe this is the result of doings from a coach or any number of coaches?

I've seen this before, our AFL team has had it in different seasons under different coaches, and I've seen it in our AFLW side as well, a disconnected look like our club is poison and nobody wants to be there.

It persists beyond however many times the coach and list has been turned over, so this isn't coming from coaches or players.

Are we the fans at fault, are we not good enough, if not then what persists at Carlton to create this persistently toxic environment?

Is the kyboshing of Matheison the start of change?
The Force Awakens!

Re: AFL Rd 12 Post Game Passing Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #71 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton on
9
Re: q4 i50 entries kicking directly to opposition

Another example of opportunities lost!
How many different ways can one club find ways to lose? We must hold the record for sure.
Coming together is the beginning.
Keeping together is progress.
Working together is success.
Henry Ford.

Re: AFL Rd 12 Post Game Passing Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #72 –
Have a listen to Sellers and Hodge on SEN now measured and spot on.
If your too late, try and listen to them on the replay of the show.
Hodge talked about:
- injuries to certain players meant others were played out of position (Williams - Doc, Ruck- SOS).
- composure and work rate isn't there yet despite last years start.
- Player issues not coaching, list doesn't needing "blowing up" though.

Sellers (was as measured as I have ever heard him about Carlton)
- spoke about expectation being premature/unrealistic
- spoke about work rate and being selfless and team orientated.

it was bloody good radio analysis.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: AFL Rd 12 Post Game Passing Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #73 –
I suspect focussing on the football department is tip of the iceberg stuff, and those mostly invisible men at the top of the tree have more power and influence than we can see.

Re: AFL Rd 12 Post Game Passing Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #74 –
Quote from: LoveNavy on
Re: q4 i50 entries kicking directly to opposition

Another example of opportunities lost!
How many different ways can one club players find ways to lose? We must hold the record for sure.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time