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Re: Pre Season Hit Out vs Geelong

Reply #75
McKay is too good a player in general play to not be in our best 22.
I haven't watched the game so I can't comment, a lot of media have initially talked him up as BoG, then secondly gone on to bag his kicking. The second part of those reports is more about throwing rocks at Carlton and winding up supporters.

BigH is not as bad of a kick as the media make out. Out at range he is as good if not even better than Charlie, I wouldn't be surprised to find their stats not all that different. In fact I think we did just that comparison last year and there was barely a percentage difference. To me that means the close range stuff is almost 100% a head space issue, but he is not on his lonesome in this regard.

Over the last couple of seasons, I'd say Owies has been probably our most reliable from inside 25m, and even he has had some unexpected misses.

It's the bad misses that fans remember, but I'd assert BigH has made as many spectacular around the body goals from very long range deep in the pocket as he has had spectacular misses. Those spectacular misses are what fans remember but I doubt in the bigger picture if there are as many of them as they recall.

Two or three years back, we sat through a lot of games and listened to loud mouths like Dunstall and Mooney in their special commentary roles bag the hell out of BigH about taking the long range shots, they wrote BigH off before he even kicked the ball, and back then he was getting the goals from around the body on the point of the 50m arc. They almost sounded disappointed he actually scored, I gather they felt bitter like when you are made appear a goose. But when he had a bad trot they piled on and become the "I told you so" crew, doing a Caro Wilson and erasing the historical times they were dead wrong!
The Force Awakens!

Re: Pre Season Hit Out vs Geelong

Reply #76
I haven't watched he game so I can't comment, a lot of media have initially talked him up as BoG, then secondly gone on to bag his kicking. The second part of those reports is more about throwing rocks at Carlton and winding up supporters.

BigH is not as bad of a kick as the media make out. Out at range he is as good if not even better than Charlie, I wouldn't be surprised to find their stats not all that different. In fact I think we did just that comparison last year and there was barely a percentage difference. To me that means the close range stuff is almost 100% a head space issue, but he is not on his lonesome in this regard.

Over the last couple of seasons, I'd say Owies has been probably our most reliable from inside 25m, and even he has had some unexpected misses.

It's the bad misses that fans remember, but I'd assert BigH has had as many spectacular around the body goals from very long range deep in the pocket as he has had spectacular misses. Those spectacular misses are what fans remember but I doubt in the bigger picture if there are as many of them as they recall.

I was watching a highlight package of Harry's 2022 earlier on.
He was kicking them from all over the place and looked confident in his kicking.
While they wouldn't have shown his misses...with 45 goals-31 behinds he was travelling OK.
He can do it, but something's gone wrong somewhere...and it may be as simple as MBB and LP says when they tried to correct his kicking around the corner...they've messed with something that was working OK. (58-33 in 2021)

Re: Pre Season Hit Out vs Geelong

Reply #77
I was watching a highlight package of Harry's 2022 earlier on.
He was kicking them from all over the place and looked confident in his kicking.
While they wouldn't have shown his misses...with 45 goals-31 behinds he was travelling OK.
He can do it, but something's gone wrong somewhere...and it may be as simple as MBB and LP says when they tried to correct his kicking around the corner...they've messed with something that was working OK. (58-33 in 2021)
Yep, I don't understand where the the historical perception came from that his kicking was bad, the stats don't support it.

Are we( the fans ) are putting too much emphasis on the bad miss and not enough on the success?

Now the media know they can beat the drums and get a reaction every time it happens, but for Carlton that's not a new feature, we have been bullied into behaviours by the media for decades, we have basically been mob ruled with the mob being the media, that is why they go to the likes of Bruce Mathieson for comments.
The Force Awakens!

Re: Pre Season Hit Out vs Geelong

Reply #78
Two of Harry's kicks for goal were perfect, his others not so much.  BUT he wasn't Robinson Crusoe with missed shots at goal; from memory, Charlie kicked two OOBOTF, Gov kicked one, and there were several others.

I thought that Harry was our best player by quite a margin and his ruckwork has improved considerably.  Geelong rotated four players through the ruck to our two (Young did contest one hitout when our ruck couldn't get there) so Harry's effort was quite impressive, as was De Koning's.

And, speaking of Young, I don't really understand the criticism.  We had one tall defender against three tall forwards - McGovern was conceding 13cm to Neale - and that's not really sustainable even if we had Weiters in for Young.  Besides, our focus was very much on pressing up rather than dour defence and even Weiters would have struggled with Geelong's ball movement into the forward line.

At the other end of the ground we had Ashton Moir playing as a key forward.  He has plenty of talent and could probably hold down the third tall spot but it's a huge ask to expect him to get the better of an experienced key defender.
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

Re: Pre Season Hit Out vs Geelong

Reply #79
It doesn't help the more people pile on and bang on about it, we might think he doesn't hear or read it but he does. You just have to listen to his social media stuff to know how much it impacts him, directly and indirectly through his family and friends who are forced to listen to the bullcrap fans hand out in the stands.
My daughter and her boyfriend went to the the Sydney Elimination final and she said she was so disappointed with the blues fans treatment of Harry. If it wasn't my own daughter telling me i wouldn't believe it but she said there was loud groans when he took a mark within range and then when he missed they booed him!!

I know its frustrating especially in a final but i would never treat any player like that. The bloke is has mental demons and that sort of added negative noise is just making it harder for him.  Stay quiet when he misses and clap and support like mad when he nails one. 

Re: Pre Season Hit Out vs Geelong

Reply #80
I tried warning people off about their expectations of Young for this year, and it seems, unfortunately, that i was right.

He looks like the same player as he was last year (at best) but nowhere near the player he was before that.

Not sure whats happened to him, but he is not a long term option and we MUST be chasing some genuine backups ASAP.

I would happily like to wave my magic wand and fix it, but i think its about time we accept it, he ain't the man he used to be.

Not sure yesterday first 'practice match' of the season confirmed anything and anyone and certainly your joking to write a bloke off after one practice match.

I remember watching blokes like Digby Morell look like Wayne Carey in preseason games then was delisted a few years later.

North 17th beat the premier comfortably a few days ago

These games mean SFA, as long as there is no new injuries in these pre season games I'm happy.


 

Re: Pre Season Hit Out vs Geelong

Reply #82

I thought that Harry was our best player by quite a margin and his ruckwork has improved considerably.  Geelong rotated four players through the ruck to our two (Young did contest one hitout when our ruck couldn't get there) so Harry's effort was quite impressive, as was De Koning's.


H appears to have been coached and looked much more at home in the ruck than ever before. Maybe there is an intention to have him spend more time in the ruck this season.  If so, hopefully he will be resilient because I don't know if we can afford for him to get injured. 

TDK also seemed to have more strength to body up against his ruck opponents - not that the pussies are generally considered to be strong in that department.

I like the games of both Hollands brothers but the big positive for me was the fact that Cripps appeared to be more mobile and to have a bit more zip - maybe he has dropped a little weight and done some speed/agility work or maybe he is just injury free for a change.

Re: Pre Season Hit Out vs Geelong

Reply #83
H appears to have been coached and looked much more at home in the ruck than ever before. Maybe there is an intention to have him spend more time in the ruck this season.  If so, hopefully he will be resilient because I don't know if we can afford for him to get injured. 

TDK also seemed to have more strength to body up against his ruck opponents - not that the pussies are generally considered to be strong in that department.

I like the games of both Hollands brothers but the big positive for me was the fact that Cripps appeared to be more mobile and to have a bit more zip - maybe he has dropped a little weight and done some speed/agility work or maybe he is just injury free for a change.

Cripps was outstanding early but had a bit of a spell later in the game and dropped back to just very good. Based on his early game form, I’d say he is in for a big year.

Ollie Hollands was very impressive.  Elijah was good but I don’t think he has Ollie’s footy smarts.
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

Re: Pre Season Hit Out vs Geelong

Reply #84
Cripps was outstanding early but had a bit of a spell later in the game and dropped back to just very good. Based on his early game form, I’d say he is in for a big year.

Ollie Hollands was very impressive.  Elijah was good but I don’t think he has Ollie’s footy smarts.
I'd go so far as to say Ollie was our best on

Re: Pre Season Hit Out vs Geelong

Reply #85
Not sure yesterday first 'practice match' of the season confirmed anything and anyone and certainly your joking to write a bloke off after one practice match.

I remember watching blokes like Digby Morell look like Wayne Carey in preseason games then was delisted a few years later.

North 17th beat the premier comfortably a few days ago

These games mean SFA, as long as there is no new injuries in these pre season games I'm happy.

It's not about writing him off.

Its about him proving that he is better than he was last season..... and he simply wasn't.

Everyone has been pumping up his tyres as a genuine replacement for weitering and even next best behind him when he is back. However, that is based on not logic, but emotion.... and it shows.

Everyone expects players to perform at their best each week, each year. It simply doesn't happen. People are expecting and remembering young and his outputfrom 2 years ago instead of what he is giving us now. Worlds apart.

He had gone down hill every since we signed him up to a long term deal

Re: Pre Season Hit Out vs Geelong

Reply #86
Final tune up coming this week.
There is no more tinkering and experimentations. Best team to play.

Re: Pre Season Hit Out vs Geelong

Reply #87
Id be trialling Sam Durdin at FB this week vs Melbourne but would also play Young in the backline, Weitering is such a hard player to replace we may have to use a combination of S. Durdin and Young to try and cover the FB position.
While you dont judge a player on one practice game I felt Young's lack of form was continuing where he left off last season and Id like a plan B. Martin will be equally hard to replace down the other end given his value is in the quality of possessions rather than the number and if he is also missing Id expect Fantasia to provide that creativity and would want to see him shine vs the Dees.

Re: Pre Season Hit Out vs Geelong

Reply #88
Id be trialling Sam Durdin at FB this week vs Melbourne but would also play Young in the backline, Weitering is such a hard player to replace we may have to use a combination of S. Durdin and Young to try and cover the FB position.
While you dont judge a player on one practice game I felt Young's lack of form was continuing where he left off last season and Id like a plan B. Martin will be equally hard to replace down the other end given his value is in the quality of possessions rather than the number and if he is also missing Id expect Fantasia to provide that creativity and would want to see him shine vs the Dees.

Apart from the size mismatches with Geelong's two gorillas (plus Cameron) to our one gorilla minder, Kempy had a shocker and we didn't play our normal whole of team defence.  I reckon Weiters would have struggled in those circumstances.

Melbourne's midfielders and small/medium forwards are probably more dangerous than their talls but they could still stretch our defence with Gawn, Schache and Verrall.  Kemp should be more comfortable manning Van Rooyen but I'd like to see tall Durds out there with Young.
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

Re: Pre Season Hit Out vs Geelong

Reply #89
Harry's copped a bit of flack regarding his goalkicking in recent times...
But Charlie is a bit off the boil too.

His last 8 games  have produced...
1,2,5,3,1,1,1 and just 1 in the Geelong practice game.

We know he's just as likely to come out and kick a bag at any stage, but it would be good to see him amongst the goals in the next outing.