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Re: Deer in the Headlights

Reply #45
Maybe if the State/Fed Goverments could ignore and not be hampered by these greens/ tree huggers and were able to conduct proper back burning and being able to control the amount of fuel available we wouldnt be relying on ScoMo to provide hose and bucket solutions.

Actually a number of firies said it was corporates who hadn't attended to their land and councils that were more responsible for undergrowth that wasn't cleared and acted as fuel. I think you're giving the Greens/Lefties way more influence than they're actually capable of.

One fire fighter said something about corporates getting carbon points for bush blocks... didn't catch it all.

Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Deer in the Headlights

Reply #46
I think you're giving the Greens/Lefties way more influence than they're actually capable of.

..................

Agree. The Greens and the tree huggers have no power. They've never had any power, and they probably never will. I'd suggest any influence they have on back burning quotas in basically nil.

Re: Deer in the Headlights

Reply #47
Irrespective of the current wave of criticism surrounding Scomo, he is on a hiding to nothing.

If he says something he is in trouble.  If he says nothing he is in trouble.  He cannot win at the moment, and he would do well to shrug off the criticism and then state now is the time for action and we can pontificate about what went wrong later.  At the moment we focus on our front line troops and then we can re-assess our priorities later.

He seems incapable of taking the oxygen out of the argument which is exactly what is required. 

He brought this on himself, especially when a number of scientific, fire-fighting and state govt bodies predicted this and asked for Federal help in buying large scale fire-fighting equipment... dating back to 2016 and on a few occasions this year... and right along the line who was the person refusing to acknowledge the problem or legitimacy of scientific evidence? Morrison. His political and religious ideologies could be very expensive for this nation, on a few levels.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Deer in the Headlights

Reply #48
Living in a small rural community we can see just how much fuel is on the forrest floor.  Gums lose their leaves all year round, nowhere near the same number of people take firewood out of the forrest due to severe restrictions. so that fallen trees and branches build up and the 'cold burns' have not been sighted in our area for almost 2 years.  Fires cannot start nor continue without some sort of fuel, and the greenies have stupidly provided the fuel.  Locals are ready to burn any greenies should they happen to leave their inner suburban houses.  But they wont, not to even help fight the fires they have caused 
No-one who doesn't live in the regional and rural areas should have a say in what happens there.   >:D  >:D  >:D  >:D  >:D


Re: Deer in the Headlights

Reply #49
He brought this on himself, especially when a number of scientific, fire-fighting and state govt bodies predicted this and asked for Federal help in buying large scale fire-fighting equipment... dating back to 2016 and on a few occasions this year... and right along the line who was the person refusing to acknowledge the problem or legitimacy of scientific evidence? Morrison. His political and religious ideologies could be very expensive for this nation, on a few levels.

Yes, but he isn't the first nor is he the last.

When push comes to shove there's a lot of state responsibility being passed onto scomo currently and he is wearing a lot of heat that frankly should sit with state government.

The voters would do well to remind themselves you get what you vote for.

I'm no scomo fan, but the vitriol aimed at him from all angles is a bit rich. 

Either way, now isnt the time to look at what happened.  Now is the time to stop things from escalating.   Reactive yes, but required.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Deer in the Headlights

Reply #50
For those of you claiming the Greens and left are at fault for not allowing back burning, consider this as being schooled. Love this guys delivery by the way...

https://youtu.be/17cxH9p-xps

What craps me is how continual fake news and right wing propaganda manipulate the facts and sell it as the truth. Then the myriad of gullible knobs out there lap it up when they hear it on a news snippet or that knobend Alan Jones' radio show, and then regurgitate it adnausium like it's the truth. Welcome to Australia's version of Trump USA.
Drugs are bad, mmmkay...

Re: Deer in the Headlights

Reply #51
Living in a small rural community we can see just how much fuel is on the forrest floor.  Gums lose their leaves all year round, nowhere near the same number of people take firewood out of the forrest due to severe restrictions. so that fallen trees and branches build up and the 'cold burns' have not been sighted in our area for almost 2 years.  Fires cannot start nor continue without some sort of fuel, and the greenies have stupidly provided the fuel.  Locals are ready to burn any greenies should they happen to leave their inner suburban houses.  But they wont, not to even help fight the fires they have caused 
No-one who doesn't live in the regional and rural areas should have a say in what happens there.   >:D  >:D  >:D  >:D  >:D

Exactly how I feel ... now that I live here, even more so.  The sense of community in the bush, city people will never truly understand.  The Greens are absolutely loathed and despised.  With you chalky :)

Re: Deer in the Headlights

Reply #52
Yes, but he isn't the first nor is he the last.

When push comes to shove there's a lot of state responsibility being passed onto scomo currently and he is wearing a lot of heat that frankly should sit with state government.

The voters would do well to remind themselves you get what you vote for.

I'm no scomo fan, but the vitriol aimed at him from all angles is a bit rich. 

Either way, now isnt the time to look at what happened.  Now is the time to stop things from escalating.   Reactive yes, but required.

I suspect much of the vitriol aimed at Morrison is because he has been such a vocal climate change denier and has actively thwarted and prevented actions to increase fire fighting abilities. He's also the boss and represents a number of archaic ideologies.

A piece from this morning's The Age. Some good perspectives:

“…Associate Professor Philip Zylstra, from Wollongong University's Centre for Sustainable Ecosystem Solutions, said fuel loads in forests, and state government management, were not responsible for the catastrophic fire season.

"I think that for the federal government to say there needs to be a focus on hazard-reduction burning at this stage appears to be passing the buck to the states," he said.

"The reality is we are at a peak of prescribed burning by state agencies. More has been done in the past decade than in many, many decades."

NSW Environment Minister Matt Kean said there were 960,000 hectares burnt for hazard reduction last year, while the previous highest yearly total since 2000 was 260,000.

Professor Zylstra said a vast increase to the current hazard reduction effort would blanket cities and towns with smoke over winter and create "huge risks" of accidental property damage and even death.

Philip Gibbons, an associate professor at the Fenner School for Environment and Society at the Australian National University, said recent fires in several regions across the country were not halted by cleared farm paddocks, which showed broadscale land clearing was not an effective management technique.

"Fires have burned through rural land which has a much lower fuel load than a hazard-burn area, but that didn't stop fires."
Professor Gibbons said studies showed hazard-reduction burns weren't effective at halting fires and policy that focused on them could push states to set minimum-hectare-burned targets.

Victoria's fire managers have already shifted from an annual hectare target, which was set after the Black Saturday royal commission, to a more strategic approach.

A 2010 study from Wollongong University, The Effect of Fuel Age on the Spread of Fire in Sclerophyll Forest in the Sydney Region, found there was only a 10 per cent chance a fire would be stopped by a hazard-reduction burn. It said road barriers were most effective at halting fires.

"This summer's fires have burnt though many areas that had hazard-reduction burning. They can help control fires in moderate weather conditions, but in severe conditions it might just help reduce the severity," he said.

Cleared buffer zones in the bush within 40 metres of houses reduced house losses by an average of 43 per cent on Black Saturday, Professor Gibbons' study found. But he said no one technique was a solution.

"If there was a silver bullet on bushfires we'd have found it by now, after the 51 inquiries since 1939."

Associate Professor Trent Penman, from the University of Melbourne bushfire behaviour and management group, said "broader thinking" was needed and "blindly putting money into prescribed burning won't stop the problem".

He said states hadn't "dropped the ball at all" on hazard-reduction burning, and they were "working harder and smarter than they have in the past", particularly since the royal commission into Black Saturday…”
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Deer in the Headlights

Reply #53
Well done Spanner'. Promote a slick dumbell who mixes doctored images to promote his case. This at least suggests that his arguments have been doctored as well. 

Re: Deer in the Headlights

Reply #54
Well done Spanner'. Promote a slick dumbell who mixes doctored images to promote his case. This at least suggests that his arguments have been doctored as well. 


As opposed to Barnaby and the koala killer, I guess.............

Re: Deer in the Headlights

Reply #55
For those of you claiming the Greens and left are at fault for not allowing back burning, consider this as being schooled. Love this guys delivery by the way...

https://youtu.be/17cxH9p-xps

What craps me is how continual fake news and right wing propaganda manipulate the facts and sell it as the truth. Then the myriad of gullible knobs out there lap it up when they hear it on a news snippet or that knobend Alan Jones' radio show, and then regurgitate it adnausium like it's the truth. Welcome to Australia's version of Trump USA.

I'm no fan of that University Revue-style presentation, but there's no denying the facts. Those are pretty bad figures, and at some point folks might realise that being "good economic managers" is about a lot more than slashing and burning budgets for all manner of services and needs. If you want "small government" you better be careful what you wish for. There's a tipping point beyond which any further cuts simply erode the quality of service that can be provided, exactly what we are seeing with these fires.

Re: Deer in the Headlights

Reply #56
I suspect much of the vitriol aimed at Morrison is because he has been such a vocal climate change denier and has actively thwarted and prevented actions to increase fire fighting abilities. He's also the boss and represents a number of archaic ideologies.

A piece from this morning's The Age. Some good perspectives:

“…Associate Professor Philip Zylstra, from Wollongong University's Centre for Sustainable Ecosystem Solutions, said fuel loads in forests, and state government management, were not responsible for the catastrophic fire season.

"I think that for the federal government to say there needs to be a focus on hazard-reduction burning at this stage appears to be passing the buck to the states," he said.

"The reality is we are at a peak of prescribed burning by state agencies. More has been done in the past decade than in many, many decades."

NSW Environment Minister Matt Kean said there were 960,000 hectares burnt for hazard reduction last year, while the previous highest yearly total since 2000 was 260,000.

Professor Zylstra said a vast increase to the current hazard reduction effort would blanket cities and towns with smoke over winter and create "huge risks" of accidental property damage and even death.

Philip Gibbons, an associate professor at the Fenner School for Environment and Society at the Australian National University, said recent fires in several regions across the country were not halted by cleared farm paddocks, which showed broadscale land clearing was not an effective management technique.

"Fires have burned through rural land which has a much lower fuel load than a hazard-burn area, but that didn't stop fires."
Professor Gibbons said studies showed hazard-reduction burns weren't effective at halting fires and policy that focused on them could push states to set minimum-hectare-burned targets.

Victoria's fire managers have already shifted from an annual hectare target, which was set after the Black Saturday royal commission, to a more strategic approach.

A 2010 study from Wollongong University, The Effect of Fuel Age on the Spread of Fire in Sclerophyll Forest in the Sydney Region, found there was only a 10 per cent chance a fire would be stopped by a hazard-reduction burn. It said road barriers were most effective at halting fires.

"This summer's fires have burnt though many areas that had hazard-reduction burning. They can help control fires in moderate weather conditions, but in severe conditions it might just help reduce the severity," he said.

Cleared buffer zones in the bush within 40 metres of houses reduced house losses by an average of 43 per cent on Black Saturday, Professor Gibbons' study found. But he said no one technique was a solution.

"If there was a silver bullet on bushfires we'd have found it by now, after the 51 inquiries since 1939."

Associate Professor Trent Penman, from the University of Melbourne bushfire behaviour and management group, said "broader thinking" was needed and "blindly putting money into prescribed burning won't stop the problem".

He said states hadn't "dropped the ball at all" on hazard-reduction burning, and they were "working harder and smarter than they have in the past", particularly since the royal commission into Black Saturday…”


Can this 'professor' tell me how fires can burn without fuel?  There has to be fuel.  And where has this fuel come from?  The dead trees, branches and leaves that have fallen over the years.  Has this 'professor' ever ventured into the real bush and not just driven past?  If so he would have to see what fuel has accumulated.  As for 'global warming' being a cause, is that a new brand of match that arsonists use or does it describe a type of lightning strike?

Re: Deer in the Headlights

Reply #57

As opposed to Barnaby and the koala killer, I guess.............

Well we can all look forward to you running for parliament and taking the place of one of these.

Re: Deer in the Headlights

Reply #58
Well we can all look forward to you running for parliament and taking the place of one of these.

Can this 'professor' tell me how fires can burn without fuel?  There has to be fuel.  And where has this fuel come from?  The dead trees, branches and leaves that have fallen over the years.  Has this 'professor' ever ventured into the real bush and not just driven past?  If so he would have to see what fuel has accumulated.  As for 'global warming' being a cause, is that a new brand of match that arsonists use or does it describe a type of lightning strike?


Both of these are just dumb arguments, a very typical Beverly Hillbillies style, small town, small minded, provincial attack on (grievous yawn) Inner City Elites and leftist academics. I guess we can dismiss everything Einstein ever said because he never traveled around the universe to see it for himself.

Re: Deer in the Headlights

Reply #59
Perhaps fuel loads AND climate change were factors?
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!