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Topic: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 22: Carlton vs St Kilda (Read 11601 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 22: Carlton vs St Kilda

Reply #75
Bolton and SOS have to get credit for building and developing the list. Teague is showing that he can get the best out of the boys.

SOS built the list, Bolton couldn't coach it and probably held them back  as we have seen by the last 10 weeks. Teague is showing that.

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 22: Carlton vs St Kilda

Reply #76
I'm wondering if the club has or would, give any thought to making daisy an offer to stay on in a coaching role. He's well spoken, got a great footy brain, and has an excellent relationship with the players.

DT is only 38, and is senior coach, so why not a young recently retired DT to mentor players.

Hard to say. His public comments indicate that he's keen to play on, and believes he has plenty left in the tank. If he doesn't get a senior spot elsewhere, I'm not sure whether he'd prefer an AFL assistant's role, or whether he'd prefer to play in the VFL or other league. His comments give the impression that wanted to enjoy that winning feeling again after putting in the hard yards, so based on that I doubt a club like GC would appeal.

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 22: Carlton vs St Kilda

Reply #77
https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-2019-carltons-jack-silvagni-left-frustrated-after-threequarter-time-siren-controversy/news-story/24bca6fb442c0ac6b36acfaeccf9237c?fbclid=IwAR2-hFBeBFyfwvMcsT3qwzWTS2cmEMhwHN51xOTaJZObViVYosygkSBYsrA

Quote
Under law 10.4.1, timekeepers are expected to sound the siren until the field umpire acknowledges the siren and brings play to an end.

“The Timekeepers shall sound the siren to signal the end of a quarter until a field Umpire or the emergency Umpire acknowledges the siren and brings play to an end, by blowing a whistle and holding both arms above their head.”

“When we hear it (the siren), that’s the end of the quarter,” Harris explained to Silvagni and teammate Harry McKay.

So, the umpires were wrong.

Part of bringing it (the quarter) to an end is "AND holding both arms above their head" - this was not done by any umpire before the mark was taken.

Mark should have stood.
Finals, then 4 in a row!

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 22: Carlton vs St Kilda

Reply #78
On the relative contributions of Bolton, SOS and Teague...

It's really something we need to wait a bit longer to determine.
We're having a bit of a euphoric period just at the moment and the blue goggles are working overtime...but consider this...

Teague's coaching abilities will be tested during a full season in different ways.
Everything so far has been positive and hopefully he is able to meet any challenge that comes his way.

One of those will be the use and development of our younger brigade because a reality of our current success is that it's not built on the back of our youth.
It's a combination of youth and experience and in fact the major movers, and most consistent,  have been players like Cripps, Murphy, Kreuzer, Simpson, Jones, Levi, Thomas, Ed Curnow.
None of which were recruited by Silvagni, and many of whom are playing much  better football under Teague than they did under Bolton.

Of the young ones the best of them  like Weitering, Walsh, Curnow, Harry, SPS were early draft picks.
But there are successes further down the list with some trades and acquisitions now looking like they'll be good players.
Consistency of the young ones is probably what needs to develop.

When most of the old crew give way to the young ones in two or three years time that's when the success of Silvagni's strategy can be really judged.

In Bolton's case....Unfortunately he'll get little credit (apart from maybe a few hard core supporters) because the young player's best football is still ahead of them and Teague will get the credit for their performances.

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 22: Carlton vs St Kilda

Reply #79
https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-2019-carltons-jack-silvagni-left-frustrated-after-threequarter-time-siren-controversy/news-story/24bca6fb442c0ac6b36acfaeccf9237c?fbclid=IwAR2-hFBeBFyfwvMcsT3qwzWTS2cmEMhwHN51xOTaJZObViVYosygkSBYsrA

So, the umpires were wrong.

Part of bringing it (the quarter) to an end is "AND holding both arms above their head" - this was not done by any umpire before the mark was taken.

Mark should have stood.

So they pick and choose, I suppose we are paranoid to think it's not an accident!
The Force Awakens!

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 22: Carlton vs St Kilda

Reply #80
On the relative contributions of Bolton, SOS and Teague...

It's really something we need to wait a bit longer to determine.
We're having a bit of a euphoric period just at the moment and the blue goggles are working overtime...but consider this...

Teague's coaching abilities will be tested during a full season in different ways.
Everything so far has been positive and hopefully he is able to meet any challenge that comes his way.

One of those will be the use and development of our younger brigade because a reality of our current success is that it's not built on the back of our youth.
It's a combination of youth and experience and in fact the major movers, and most consistent,  have been players like Cripps, Murphy, Kreuzer, Simpson, Jones, Levi, Thomas, Ed Curnow.
None of which were recruited by Silvagni, and many of whom are playing much  better football under Teague than they did under Bolton.

Of the young ones the best of them  like Weitering, Walsh, Curnow, Harry, SPS were early draft picks.
But there are successes further down the list with some trades and acquisitions now looking like they'll be good players.
Consistency of the young ones is probably what needs to develop.

When most of the old crew give way to the young ones in two or three years time that's when the success of Silvagni's strategy can be really judged.

In Bolton's case....Unfortunately he'll get little credit (apart from maybe a few hard core supporters) because the young player's best football is still ahead of them and Teague will get the credit for their performances.

See its really easy.

If you are coached by anyone, they are part of why you are today.

Sometimes players develop skills because of a coach, some of them will develop skills in spite of them.  Either way, both coaches make an impact on their careers.  Its folly to attribute anything to one coach.


"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 22: Carlton vs St Kilda

Reply #81
On the relative contributions of Bolton, SOS and Teague...

It's really something we need to wait a bit longer to determine.
We're having a bit of a euphoric period just at the moment and the blue goggles are working overtime...but consider this...

...................................................

When most of the old crew give way to the young ones in two or three years time that's when the success of Silvagni's strategy can be really judged.

In Bolton's case....Unfortunately he'll get little credit (apart from maybe a few hard core supporters) because the young player's best football is still ahead of them and Teague will get the credit for their performances.

Nice post Lods.

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 22: Carlton vs St Kilda

Reply #82
So they pick and choose, I suppose we are paranoid to think it's not an accident!

This is the thing that infuriates me the most. Game against St Killya the controlling umpire DID NOT hear the siren. The non-controlling umpire came over and overruled. Game last week NOT ONE of the 3 central umpires heard the siren go before the mark to do the same?? Give me a break. We have been on the receiving end of some horrible decisions and NON decisions all year. This weeks umpiring was reasonably good compared to previous games.
A great win.

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 22: Carlton vs St Kilda

Reply #83
On the relative contributions of Bolton, SOS and Teague...

It's really something we need to wait a bit longer to determine.
We're having a bit of a euphoric period just at the moment and the blue goggles are working overtime...but consider this...

Teague's coaching abilities will be tested during a full season in different ways.
Everything so far has been positive and hopefully he is able to meet any challenge that comes his way.

One of those will be the use and development of our younger brigade because a reality of our current success is that it's not built on the back of our youth.
It's a combination of youth and experience and in fact the major movers, and most consistent,  have been players like Cripps, Murphy, Kreuzer, Simpson, Jones, Levi, Thomas, Ed Curnow.
None of which were recruited by Silvagni, and many of whom are playing much  better football under Teague than they did under Bolton.

Of the young ones the best of them  like Weitering, Walsh, Curnow, Harry, SPS were early draft picks.
But there are successes further down the list with some trades and acquisitions now looking like they'll be good players.
Consistency of the young ones is probably what needs to develop.

When most of the old crew give way to the young ones in two or three years time that's when the success of Silvagni's strategy can be really judged.

In Bolton's case....Unfortunately he'll get little credit (apart from maybe a few hard core supporters) because the young player's best football is still ahead of them and Teague will get the credit for their performances.

Unfortunately for Bolton he made a good young list look like $hit. Even with honeymoons, lack of pressure and seeing how a full season goes etc, the difference too stark to come to any other conclusion. We had a really crap draw for the last 11 games, as bad as it gets, we're going to win likely 6, possibly 7, compared to 4 from 40. Many hoped for 7 or 8 wins this year and we managed it in the end. no bad after starting the 2nd half of the season at one. We still have to see how things go in a full season but right now Teague deserves full credit for turning around a mess.

 

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 22: Carlton vs St Kilda

Reply #84
Bolton had a game plan no one, least of all him, could understand. He was stubborn beyond all reason, and loathe to change.

Bolton's background is as a teacher, and as such, he was, as some teachers have the capacity to do, able to get close to his young students in a caring nurturing way, inviting them to his home for barbecues, meals etc.

But he couldn't translate their love for him as a human being, and his love for them as his students, into a capacity for them to understand or follow through, on anything that he was telling them to do. I had a couple of lovely, kind, caring people who taught me at school, but I learnt virtually nothing from them about the subjects they were teaching me. And I loved them as individuals.

That was Bolton. David Teague, is the exact opposite to Bolton, not as a human being, there is no difference there, but as someone who can impart in simple easy to understand terms, what he requires of the players. And the results, at this point in time, speak for themselves.

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 22: Carlton vs St Kilda

Reply #85
See its really easy.

If you are coached by anyone, they are part of why you are today.

Sometimes players develop skills because of a coach, some of them will develop skills in spite of them.  Either way, both coaches make an impact on their careers.  Its folly to attribute anything to one coach.

Just adding to that...not all players respond to the same coach in the same way.
For some a coach can be a significant figure in their development, yet the same coach can be a disaster for another player who may just switch off to his message.
So it's never a case of "one coach fits all players"


Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 22: Carlton vs St Kilda

Reply #86
On the relative contributions of Bolton, SOS and Teague...

It's really something we need to wait a bit longer to determine.
We're having a bit of a euphoric period just at the moment and the blue goggles are working overtime...but consider this...

Teague's coaching abilities will be tested during a full season in different ways.
Everything so far has been positive and hopefully he is able to meet any challenge that comes his way.

One of those will be the use and development of our younger brigade because a reality of our current success is that it's not built on the back of our youth.
It's a combination of youth and experience and in fact the major movers, and most consistent,  have been players like Cripps, Murphy, Kreuzer, Simpson, Jones, Levi, Thomas, Ed Curnow.
None of which were recruited by Silvagni, and many of whom are playing much  better football under Teague than they did under Bolton.

Of the young ones the best of them  like Weitering, Walsh, Curnow, Harry, SPS were early draft picks.
But there are successes further down the list with some trades and acquisitions now looking like they'll be good players.
Consistency of the young ones is probably what needs to develop.

When most of the old crew give way to the young ones in two or three years time that's when the success of Silvagni's strategy can be really judged.

In Bolton's case....Unfortunately he'll get little credit (apart from maybe a few hard core supporters) because the young player's best football is still ahead of them and Teague will get the credit for their performances.

BB, no doubt, imparted important defensive lessons... lessons that will serve all our blokes well for the remainder of their careers. However, he also played too many out of position and subjected them to a confusing game plan and failure on a regular basis (see Crippa's comments re almost giving it up) which was not good for the player or club.

If DT gets credit for future good performances then it is very likely that that will be deserved at he will have been the one to bring it out of said player; he will have created the environment and culture where maturing players can show their best. But we're getting ahead of ourselves - he's a long way to go to get us into serious contention.

The sentimentality toward BB is nice but misplaced. In hindsight he was probably ideal for two years, to transition the side, to limit hidings while SOS rebuilt the list. When he identified the need for an offensive layer at the beginning of last year, we played about 15 minutes of strong offensive footy in the first game, then when challenged we withdrew into our shells, to remain there until a different approach was undertaken a couple of months back.

If MM or Pagan or even Ratts had delivered the identical record to BB they'd have been sacked earlier than half way through this year. Because BB is nice and friendly with a lovely smile we cut him far more slack than a surly MM or Pagan. In reality, I strongly suspect that BB would make an excellent welfare director at a club (might seem like feint praise, but I'm actually serious).
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 22: Carlton vs St Kilda

Reply #87
@ Baggers

BB is gorn and I'm glad. And to quote Forrest Gump, "That's all I've got to say about that".
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 22: Carlton vs St Kilda

Reply #88
Bolton's background is as a teacher, and as such, he was, as some teachers have the capacity to do, able to get close to his young students in a caring nurturing way, inviting them to his home for barbecues, meals etc.

I think that’s why the players were genuinely disappointed with what happened to him. Not that his game plan or messaging were great, but he was simply a good bloke, who was invested in them and the club for all the right reasons and left with dignity. Just not up to the job.

Not sure the North boys could boast about having the same affection for Scott.

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 22: Carlton vs St Kilda

Reply #89
I think that’s why the players were genuinely disappointed with what happened to him. Not that his game plan or messaging were great, but he was simply a good bloke, who was invested in them and the club for all the right reasons and left with dignity. Just not up to the job.

Not sure the North boys could boast about having the same affection for Scott.

Bolts was at Marvel Stadium for Roughead's farewell game with his little girl in her Marc Murphy guernsey. I suspect that he is still a Bluebagger at heart.

I read the first version of Crippa's article in which he commended Bolton for doing the heavy lifting to address the mess that our club was in when he was appointed.  I'm not sure why that was edited out  :-\
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball