Friday, 6th April
7.50 PM
MCG
Sooooo kiddies..............
Kreuzer in, Weitering out.
Collingwood were unlucky to lose to GWS. Their intensity today was fantastic. If they play like that next week, we are toast.
Brodie Grundy showed why I wanted to recruit him so badly. He beat the GWS rucks totally, almost as much as Witts did against us. If we have a ruck combination like we had today, we will get killed in the middle.
Can we find the defenders to keep Collingwood's small forwards out of the game? They struggled for key forwards today.
Weitering needs to do some time in the VFL, to do an apprenticeship like we used to do in our heyday.
At the moment he isn't enjoying his football and it isn't hard to tell. He had 5 possessions (although he did take 4 marks).
He needs to work on his pace, which is his biggest weakness. Working on his strength would also be to his advantage. To be honest, he hasn't looked the same since he got his injury in his 1st season. It is about time he took him aside and trained him to be the answer, not the question.
Hey crash, does it bug you that I occasionally start these threads ? If so, let me know. Don't want to be stepping on anyone's toes.
So Weitering gets the chop, while ten years of accumulated sh1te just slides off certain experienced players after today's pathetic Rnd 2 effort! Players who should be standing up and showing the 20 years olds the way, not looking for the 20 years olds to give them an armchair ride!
The vacuum of accountability for some of our experienced players is to say the least bizarre!
Of course, we are Carlton, how disappointing!
Hey crash, does it bug you that I occasionally start these threads ? If so, let me know. Don't want to be stepping on anyone's toes.
Don't hesitate to start a thread Paul.
It's not just mods responsibility...in fact we'd like to see members generating as many threads as possible.
That goes for pre-match, post match and in game threads as well.
Hey crash, does it bug you that I occasionally start these threads ? If so, let me know. Don't want to be stepping on anyone's toes.
Not at all! Quite the contrary, its great when others start the threads.
I just wanted to edit the title a bit to fit with the others. That was my only concern, and it was pretty minor.
No, keep going, please!
Don't hesitate to start a thread Paul.
It's not just mods responsibility...in fact we'd like to see members generating as many threads as possible.
That goes for pre-match, post match and in game threads as well.
Not at all! Quite the contrary, its great when others start the threads.
I just wanted to edit the title a bit to fit with the others. That was my only concern, and it was pretty minor.
No, keep going, please!
OK, just checking. Thanks.
We may as well give all the experience the ar5e and play all the kids at once, it won't be worse than today because we won't enter the game with any expectation of victory!
If only I were joking, but I think BB is not in a position to send that message, even though I think it needs to be sent!
We need Kreuzer to be fit, but that is questionable. If he doesn't come up, then we need to play either Lobbe or Phillips. We can't go into another game against a top ruckman with only Casboult.
Weitering needs to be dropped. He needs a period of time in the VFL to learn what he needs to do, to gain his confidence and to start playing to his strengths instead of his weaknesses.
The time in the VFL did Silvagni no harm, as he kicked 3 goals. Now to keep it going for a few more weeks.
It would be very handy to have Kennedy and Lang ready to play as well. Nick Graham deserves a senior game.
Byrne will probably miss through injury when he was finally finding a little form. But he needs game time. In the VFL if nothing else.
Polson didn't have a great game. He'll probably be dropped. He needs to get 25 - 30 possessions each week in the VFL, like Kerridge and Graham.
Cuningham got the ball enough, but his decision making was ordinary. He might stay because he was getting the ball, but he made some shocking mistakes.
TDK plays, if need be....
Ready? Not relevant....he's tough, seen his brothers?
Polson, Dow and Cuners.....back to the 2s. Kerridge in, Graham in.....
Polson and Dow simply are no where near ready. Should not have been picked today.
Dow is onlt getting damaged playing now.
Mullet, OShea, Byrne, Polson, Lamb - it’s quite simple, if 3 or more of theses guys play, we’ll almost certainly lose. And, Cunningham, Garlett and Weitering might as well be lumped in with that group on current form. That’s 8 of the starting 22 before you even get to game plan and players out of position.
The sooner that Silvagni, Kennedy, Lang, Kreuzer, Williamson find their way into the team the better.
Weitering is the really frustrating one - I know that he’s young but he lacks aggession and he needs to be a lot tougher than he is.. Its all betweeen the ears with him.
Weitering is my major concern considering he was/is one of our most valuable assets. He currently looks mentally shot as others have highlighted. He needs to be rehabilitated in the 2s where he can regain confidence and composure and return to the seniors in a role where he can excel and I mean in defence. It would be an absolute tragedy if we stuff up his development and an indictement on our club.
If our effort against Gold Coast isn't enough to start a bit of a shake up of the team, i don't know what is.
Time for a spell...
1. Weitering. Liability 2 weeks in a row. He is so much better than he has been playing, give him a spell.
2. Dow. You've had a taste of it. its been too quick for you. Go back and get 30 in the VFL to remind yourself you can and will dominate this game in the future.
3. Bryne. Potentially injured anyway, but lacking football nous it appears. Heart is in it, but ability is lacking.
4. Mullet. Your smooth left foot seems to have disappeared somewhat over the summer. 28 touches is good, 22 kicks...but 57% DE? Need to be better. WIll probably be spared because of those above him.
Time for the call-up....
1. Jack Silvagni. Been 'average' in form, not in intensity. Was wrong to drop him and bring in some more defenders. Jack offers more up forward than Weitering does....and a lot more effort too.
2. McKay. Might not be banging the door down, but can't be any worse than what we've displayed up forward by the 'others' trying to fill a gap.
3. Alex Silvagni. As with his cousin, effort is unconditional. Might be worth playing him up forward to teach the young bucks a few tricks, and push some defenders around. Given his speed and marking ability, a role on the wing could be an option.
4. Willo. He can take Byrnes spot in defense. We need more run and carry.
Now i'm not suggesting all of these players should come in for this week, but at least 3 outs, and 2 ins from that list is required. The rest depends on who is fit - Kreuzer, Kennedy etc
Thankfully, the Pies have no capable, big key forwards, so at least in this part of the ground, we should have a chance of breaking even and getting some half decent match ups.
I've no idea how much money they have in their piggy bank, but they must be seriously thinking of offering Tom Lynch a Buddy type contract.
Thankfully, the Pies have no capable, big key forwards, so at least in this part of the ground, we should have a chance of breaking even and getting some half decent match ups.
...but we'll give them the upper hand by playing 5 key backs without matchups for them. :-\
...but we'll give them the upper hand by playing 5 key backs without matchups for them. :-\
Well, if we finally have a chance of getting good match ups, and the MC are stubborn or just dumb, then we deserve every hiding that we cop.
I'd stick with Weitering for now, we know that he can play but he's being crowded by our top heavy defence.
Polson must go and I'd drop O'Shea as well, not because he was particularly bad but because we need run in our back half.
Kreuzer, Silvagni and McKay should all play, our front 6 was impotent yesterday and we must add some scoring power, Lamb can make way.
I'd like to see young O'Brien get a game soon as well but I'm not sure how well he's been going in the Magoos.
Again, with the shape that Collingwood are in, if Krooz and Kennedy can return, we should be more than competitive. No Moore, possibly no Reid, Trelor only half fit, and Mason Cox returning, we must be a chance.
I'd stick with Weitering for now, we know that he can play but he's being crowded by our top heavy defence.
Polson must go and I'd drop O'Shea as well, not because he was particularly bad but because we need run in our back half.
Kreuzer, Silvagni and McKay should all play, our front 6 was impotent yesterday and we must add some scoring power, Lamb can make way.
I'd like to see young O'Brien get a game soon as well but I'm not sure how well he's been going in the Magoos.
I thought OShea was reasonable, his stats were not that bad and his attack on the ball is better than Mullett, Weitering etc...
Polson, Weitering, Lamb and Byrne would be my outs...
Obrien is a good user of the ball but very light and we dont need anymore undersized mids....especially vs a strong Collingwood midfield
We need Kennedy, Lang, Kruezer and Mckay in IMO....or if Lang is still unfit I would play Graham or Kerridge...
Collingwood are not that great IMO and we can win this game if we select right and recognize that Grundy and their mids is where their strength is and matchup properly...Pendlebury cannot be allowed to play off Cripps like in previous games and needs a genuine tagger like Curnow on his case all day.
Very winnable game providing a common sense approach is taken and not the madness we watched vs GC.....if Kruezer isnt fit then Philips has to play....
O'Shea wasn't too bad but surely we have enough tall defenders.
To be honest I don't know why we've recruited so many when we're crying out for forwards.
I think we may be being conditioned for a Weitering rest ;)
http://www.carltonfc.com.au/news/2018-03-31/murphy-well-support-weitering
Bolton didn't rule out the possibility of Weitering playing at Preston Oval instead of the MCG next week in a bid to help him find some confidence.
"I'm not going to make a public statement on what we're going to do in terms of selection now, but we'll go and analyse his game," Bolton said.
"Like any decision, whether or not players play VFL or AFL, it'll be a Carlton-first decision based on form.
"We'll make that decision during the week once we look at the tape."
That would actually worry me more than the dross we served up against GC. He was widely regarded as the best kid in the draft, came in and had a really good first year imo. But within another 18 months we have turned him into a timid player devoid of confidence who needs to go back to the VFL
O'Shea wasn't too bad but surely we have enough tall defenders.
To be honest I don't know why we've recruited so many when we're crying out for forwards.
Fair point, we have a few like for likes down back and less options down forward.........forwards are hard to get thats the main problem...you could have had Watts and Stringer playing for us if you wanted to pony up the money? Or as is likely going to be pointed out more than once by years end we could have taken Fogarty instead of Obrien at pick 10.
The list does look unbalanced and its a real heavy reliance on Harry, Kerr, and JackS to deliver, the latter two are later picks so the odds are higher.......
I'd be more than surprised if Tom Lynch doesnt get a big offer from us or Patton from GWS......
O'Shea wasn't too bad but surely we have enough tall defenders.
To be honest I don't know why we've recruited so many when we're crying out for forwards.
I've been singing from that same hymn book for a few years now.
We've made our bed...
Well, if we finally have a chance of getting good match ups, and the MC are stubborn or just dumb, then we deserve every hiding that we cop.
What are you talking about? We have a chance of getting good matchups every week. We know what the opposition is going to be doing up forward. For 2 weeks now we have painted ourselves into a corner with our selections which actually HELP the opposition. They've done it for 2 weeks already and yes they are stubborn and/or dumb. Not sure what doing it for a 3rd week in a row will prove.
I'd be more than surprised if Tom Lynch doesnt get a big offer from us or Patton from GWS......
But would either of them want to play for us?
I would have passed on Stringer but at the price I'd have signed Watts in a heartbeat.
What are you talking about? We have a chance of getting good matchups every week. We know what the opposition is going to be doing up forward. For 2 weeks now we have painted ourselves into a corner with our selections which actually HELP the opposition. They've done it for 2 weeks already and yes they are stubborn and/or dumb. Not sure what doing it for a 3rd week in a row will prove.
As I see it, the only 2 players we have that should play on Buddy or Lynch are Rowe or ACOS, neither of which are ideal and both of which have limitations. So either we go with a compromised man on man, or we double team / zone / rotate those types of players, which is also a compromise.
But would either of them want to play for us?
I would have passed on Stringer but at the price I'd have signed Watts in a heartbeat.
Krud was big on signing Watts, my theory is he is handy at a strong club forward line club like Port but being the main man with us would have proven difficult and thats why I didnt want or rate him.
Stringer would have been a yes from me but not at 600k a year like Essendon offered.....
Would they want to play for us?.....Stringer wanted the dough and I think Watts wanted the 3rd banana role and got some good advice to choose Port who pay well and have the list to make his life easier and play to his strengths....
Krud was big on signing Watts, my theory is he is handy at a strong club forward line club like Port but being the main man with us would have proven difficult and thats why I didnt want or rate him.
Stringer would have been a yes from me but not at 600k a year like Essendon offered.....
Would they want to play for us?.....Stringer wanted the dough and I think Watts wanted the 3rd banana role and got some good advice to choose Port who pay well and have the list to make his life easier and play to his strengths....
Watts in our side on the weekend helps a lot.
He can play forward, or run around on a wing.
We lose Casboult from our forwardline, we'd still have the height of Watts to go with Curnowfides.
If Kreuzer plays, Watts goes onto a wing instead of Polsen. Surely an upgrade there.
Not saying he is/was the answer, but he allows us some versatility and cover for situations like what occured with Kreuzer in R2.
Regardless of Watts' likes or dislikes we didn't even deal ourselves into the game, for reasons which will always remain a mystery to me.
He's a good player with excellent skills, he's suffered because he isn't a superstar and he was a number one draft pick.
We have a dearth of good footballers of his age and experience, yet we showed no interest in him whatsoever., you're left scratching your head.
I think it's likely that we've chased every decent tall forward who's contract was up in the last 3 years. Problem is they wouldn't come to us. (I have zero evidence to support this)
So we went to draft with a long term view (and because we had no other choice). Took Weitering first in 2015 because we needed a defender too and he was rated the best player overall. After that we went McKay and Curnow. The latter looks a ripper and the former is still developing. Also got SOJ and TDK in the works and maybe
We have a forward line in the making, but it will take at least another 2 years before it's ready to go and make opposition defenders panic about playing them. But what choice do we have if existing players won't come to Carlton?
Besides, put Buddy and Kennedy in our forward line yesterday and they too would be made to look mediocre while our mids fumbled like the under 10s on a rainy day.
Besides, put Buddy and Kennedy in our forward line yesterday and they too would be made to look mediocre while our mids fumbled like the under 10s on a rainy day.
Yes and no. To me it was more structural than personal, but the number of times we had no one leading towards the ball carrier and everyone back peddling toward the goals in hope of getting an easy goal. Lack of space. No one creating space. Everyone in the same area. Bolts and Teague have a lot of work to do.
At the other end the Suns managed the opposite. So many one on ones.
I think it's likely that we've chased every decent tall forward who's contract was up in the last 3 years. Problem is they wouldn't come to us. (I have zero evidence to support this)
So we went to draft with a long term view (and because we had no other choice). Took Weitering first in 2015 because we needed a defender too and he was rated the best player overall. After that we went McKay and Curnow. The latter looks a ripper and the former is still developing. Also got SOJ and TDK in the works and maybe
We have a forward line in the making, but it will take at least another 2 years before it's ready to go and make opposition defenders panic about playing them. But what choice do we have if existing players won't come to Carlton?
Besides, put Buddy and Kennedy in our forward line yesterday and they too would be made to look mediocre while our mids fumbled like the under 10s on a rainy day.
Hopefully we can add Kerr and Pickett to that mix.
So what are the likely ins and outs this week. Kruze will miss again I reckon hence a tall will come in, Phillips or H? Where is Lobbe at?
We need to change up the fwd line, how about LeBois and Kerr? Will SOS stay in the 2s and will Weiters join him? Lang, Willo, Bam Bam? Byrne will be out to injury, personally I think that experiment is over and should never play 1s again.
Lots of questions, lots go change needed coz what we are trying ain’t working.
Out Polson, Byrne, Weiters
In Bam Bam, H, Kerr
Yes and no. To me it was more structural than personal, but the number of times we had no one leading towards the ball carrier and everyone back peddling toward the goals in hope of getting an easy goal. Lack of space. No one creating space. Everyone in the same area. Bolts and Teague have a lot of work to do.
At the other end the Suns managed the opposite. So many one on ones.
Yep our forward line was crowded and their FL was wide open allowing Lynch one on ones with Jones or Marchbank, we played seven backman last season
reckon this was the day to go back to that theory and get two players vs Lynch when ever we could...
Scarlett would always have Milburn as the 3rd man up when playing the best Full Forwards, Josh Gibson was often the Milburn at Hawthorn supporting Lake etc....
Problem I have is that the way GC played was a repeat of when they won at Etihad last season.....why are we such slow learners and get burned by the same players each season....
ie Lynch of course with his goals.....but look a bit deeper Kreuzer played and had 10 possies and 23 hitouts........Witts played and had 14 possies and 36 hitouts......
Witts was a factor yet we failed to acknowledge that and played a part time ruck only...ok we had Lobbe out as well and Philips underdone, well I would have played another tall at least or maybe even an underdone Philips plus Mckay just to give Casboult some help plus give Curnow a chop out at FF where he had May and Thompson all over him....
Regardless of Watts' likes or dislikes we didn't even deal ourselves into the game, for reasons which will always remain a mystery to me.
There are potential reasons related to our possible future draft strategies, if things don't pan out there are going to be some very tough questions some people will be asked but they are very unlikely to answer any of them!
I was a Watts booster at the time, I think he adds structure and flexibility. Carlton should be the last club to bag him out, some of his best games came against us when they used him as an onballer!
He didn't do much today, but his presence frees up some others for Port so he does sort of suit their list and stage.
Could Watts have replaced Casboult, would we be equal or better off than we are now?
So what are the likely ins and outs this week. Kruze will miss again I reckon hence a tall will come in, Phillips or H? Where is Lobbe at?
We need to change up the fwd line, how about LeBois and Kerr? Will SOS stay in the 2s and will Weiters join him? Lang, Willo, Bam Bam? Byrne will be out to injury, personally I think that experiment is over and should never play 1s again.
Lots of questions, lots go change needed coz what we are trying ain’t working.
Out Polson, Byrne, Weiters
In Bam Bam, H, Kerr
This weeks ins and outs will certainly be interesting as to whether we stick with looking to the future or we try and steady the ship with some older types. Weiters definitely looks lost and somehow we have to try and fix that. I was thinking he should go to the VFL for a week or two but maybe we should give him one more week to try and settle him in a clearly defined defensive role? Problem is that would be rewarding a wretched effort and set the wrong example - a conundrum to be sure.
If one of Phillips or Lobbe is fit and available then he should come in (assuming Kreuz is still injured). I don't like the idea of Levi being up against Grundy in the ruck all day. Hopefully Kennedy will be available to bolster our midfield.
If one of Phillips or Lobbe is fit and available then he should come in (assuming Kreuz is still injured).
Didn't Phillips play most of the game in Craigieburn, I've heard reports he had 30 or so hit-outs from his ToG and scored a goal?
Which highlights even more how much bullcrap the whole Kreuzer will play charade was!
Didn't Phillips play most of the game in Craigieburn, I've heard reports he had 30 or so hit-outs from his ToG and scored a goal?
Which highlights even more how much bullcrap the whole Kreuzer will play charade was!
I sort of heard that but wasn't sure. Good news if true.
So what are the likely ins and outs this week. Kruze will miss again I reckon hence a tall will come in, Phillips or H? Where is Lobbe at?
We need to change up the fwd line, how about LeBois and Kerr? Will SOS stay in the 2s and will Weiters join him? Lang, Willo, Bam Bam? Byrne will be out to injury, personally I think that experiment is over and should never play 1s again.
Lots of questions, lots go change needed coz what we are trying ain’t working.
Out Polson, Byrne, Weiters
In Bam Bam, H, Kerr
In my opinion:
Out
O'Shea
Mullet
Polson
Byrne (injured)
Weitering
In
Kreuzer (hopefully)
McKay
Kennedy (Graham if still injured)
Kerridge
Jack Silvagni
Maybe Dow for O'Brien. Williamson in as soon as he's fit to play.
I was a Watts booster at the time, I think he adds structure and flexibility. Carlton should be the last club to bag him out, some of his best games came against us when they used him as an onballer!
150 games, just turning 27, averaging about 16 touches and a goal a game in a poorly performing side, excellent skills, and Port paid pick 30 odd for him!
He was pick one and Melbourne supporters have been pissed with him since day one because he's not a champion, but if anyone should know all about that situation and disregard it when assessing him it's Carlton.
We've been taking pot shots at Murphy, Gibbs and Kreuzer for years after all.
150 games, just turning 27, averaging about 16 touches and a goal a game in a poorly performing side, excellent skills, and Port paid pick 30 odd for him!
He was pick one and Melbourne supporters have been pissed with him since day one because he's not a champion, but if anyone should know all about that situation and disregard it when assessing him it's Carlton.
We've been taking pot shots at Murphy, Gibbs and Kreuzer for years after all.
I have no opinion one way or the other re Watts, but if he ended up at Carlton, he would have taken Gibbs' place as the whipping boy du jour.
150 games, just turning 27, averaging about 16 touches and a goal a game in a poorly performing side, excellent skills, and Port paid pick 30 odd for him!
He was pick one and Melbourne supporters have been pissed with him since day one because he's not a champion, but if anyone should know all about that situation and disregard it when assessing him it's Carlton.
We've been taking pot shots at Murphy, Gibbs and Kreuzer for years after all.
Now our fans are kicking Weitering, and after just two games the radicals have started questioning Dow's future labelling him a chook runner!
The low draft picks are not the problem, no kid can be expected to lift his game 200% to cover for the surrounding spuds that deliver only 50% of what they should!
It was no accident that when ACoS played in conjunction with Rowe in defence the kids around them lifted, even if the other end of the ground remained rubbish!
We need one half decent KPF aging or not, and to get Rowe or ACoS back in the side to lead the way down back, and we'll be 200% better. At the moment we have zero structure pretty much everywhere you look!
Now our fans are kicking Weitering, and after just two games the radicals have started questioning Dow's future labelling him a chook runner!
The low draft picks are not the problem, no kid can be expected to lift his game 200% to cover for the surrounding spuds that deliver only 50% of what they should!
It was no accident that when ACoS played in conjunction with Rowe in defence the kids around them lifted, even if the other end of the ground remained rubbish!
We need one half decent KPF aging or not, and to get Rowe or ACoS back in the side to lead the way down back, and we'll be 200% better. At the moment we have zero structure pretty much everywhere you look!
Yet agree......not much leadership let alone protection for the kids last Saturday.
The 2 you mention have presence and don't take any sh1t.
We feed our young to the wolfs then too many so called supporters bag the crap out of them when they don't fight hard enough. I heard some disgusting comments about Weiters on Saturday. I agree he is a boy in a mans body, he hates getting hurt and is now even being targeted IMO by opposition teams to hit him when ever you can cause they know he cant handle it. I agree he needs to learn to take the physical side of the game better and I know he will but FMD give him some time. Only played 2 seasons in one of the worst teams in comp. The minute he has a few quiet games he name is raised as a flop of a pick. ::)
Royce Hart would have struggled in our F50 on Saturday. Weiters cops a very hard front on hit that nearly knocked him out yet kicks the goal and comes straight off the ground.
Then to my amazement gets switched again and gets asked to play on a player who already had 7 goals to his name with confidence riding sky high. Was a poor decision by Bolts, not sure how that's supposed to build the boys confidence. Wouldn't you take the pressure off him rather the putting him under the spotlight!
I have no opinion one way or the other re Watts, but if he ended up at Carlton, he would have taken Gibbs' place as the whipping boy du jour.
Guaranteed, but in his absence Murphy seems to have stepped into the void.
Daisy has escaped so far this year with a couple of reasonable games but it's only a matter of time methinks.
Maybe the club took a look at Watts and decided we simply had no room for another pariah.
Yet agree......not much leadership let alone protection for the kids last Saturday.
The 2 you mention have presence and don't take any sh1t.
We feed our young to the wolfs then too many so called supporters bag the crap out of them when they don't fight hard enough. I heard some disgusting comments about Weiters on Saturday. I agree he is a boy in a mans body, he hates getting hurt and is now even being targeted IMO by opposition teams to hit him when ever you can cause they know he cant handle it. I agree he needs to learn to take the physical side of the game better and I know he will but FMD give him some time. Only played 2 seasons in one of the worst teams in comp. The minute he has a few quiet games he name is raised as a flop of a pick. ::)
Royce Hart would have struggled in our F50 on Saturday. Weiters cops a very hard front on hit that nearly knocked him out yet kicks the goal and comes straight off the ground.
Then to my amazement gets switched again and gets asked to play on a player who already had 7 goals to his name with confidence riding sky high. Was a poor decision by Bolts, not sure how that's supposed to build the boys confidence. Wouldn't you take the pressure off him rather the putting him under the spotlight!
re the bold, i can't blame bolts for this.
In the 3rd he tried Weitering forward. He was trying to win the game. In the last he rolled the dice and threw Jones in the ruck to allow Casboult to back forward and provide another marking option we were sorely missing up forward. That meant weitering had to go back to cover Jones.
Obviously neither option worked, but there was no point doing the same thing we were already doing as it clearly wasn't working.
Guaranteed, but in his absence Murphy seems to have stepped into the void.
Daisy has escaped so far this year with a couple of reasonable games but it's only a matter of time methinks.
Maybe the club took a look at Watts and decided we simply had no room for another pariah.
Yes, maybe, but I doubt Watts was interested in any Victorian club. Our trading / recruitment under SOS is like two extremes with no middle ground. Either high end youth (1st round draft picks), or low rent, discarded, cheap, older players. They seem to have no interest in the half decent, established Watts type players. Must be saving their pennies for someone(s) special.
Speaking of players we target during the draft period, I think we really should be going after good players that are consistent but potentially gettable.
We could look at players such as Lachie Hunter or Jack Macrae from the Bulldogs potentially, these guys add to the team, provide depth, and, additionally can hit the scoreboard whilst bringing pressure to the ball. These are the sort of players that would have helped against Gold Coast IMHO. In many ways these types are the Mathew Wright type players, that, are regular but not the absolute top shelf that you have to sell the farm to get.
Yes, maybe, but I doubt Watts was interested in any Victorian club. Our trading / recruitment under SOS is like two extremes with no middle ground. Either high end youth (1st round draft picks), or low rent, discarded, cheap, older players. They seem to have no interest in the half decent, established Watts type players. Must be saving their pennies for someone(s) special.
I don't know why Watts, as a Victorian, wouldn't have been interested in going to a Victorian club, what do you base your opinion on?
And he's more than half decent, his stats place him well above average for players of his size and the positions he plays, but I agree that we seem to have a Sydney or the bush attitude to recruiting.
About the only one of the low rent brigade to work out has been Matty Wright.
Just putting it out there for discussion (based on the post game thread) - given our short supply of bigger players in the midfield, could we try Plowman as a mid this week?
Some of the vids of him in his draft year threw the idea of him in middle around a bit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJfyr50Fl5g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ny_Ut5CPA9c
I don't know why Watts, as a Victorian, wouldn't have been interested in going to a Victorian club, what do you base your opinion on?
And he's more than half decent, his stats place him well above average for players of his size and the positions he plays, but I agree that we seem to have a Sydney or the bush attitude to recruiting.
About the only one of the low rent brigade to work out has been Matty Wright.
I think Watts wanted a fresh start somewhere away from all the sh1t he'd copped since day 1. I think he may have preferred one of the East Coast clubs, to get away from the real AFL hot spots, but I guess some things (coach, money etc) may have influenced his final choice. I just base this on guess work, nothing more, nothing less.
And yes, agree about Wright 100%. Absolute bargain and my current favourite player along with CC.
Another problem created by our abysmal draft record is that we don't have those good, average players around the 100 game mark who are attractive to other clubs to fill holes on their list, the more successful clubs continually improve their lists by turning over these types of players but at Carlton the only players we have with any trade value we can't afford to lose.
None of this can be fixed in the short term, in fact one of our biggest challenges will be holding on to our young quality players long enough to see some finals success.
If anyone had told me that we'd end up like this back in the 1990's I'd have thought that they were stark raving mad, but here we are.
Then to my amazement gets switched again and gets asked to play on a player who already had 7 goals to his name with confidence riding sky high. Was a poor decision by Bolts, not sure how that's supposed to build the boys confidence. Wouldn't you take the pressure off him rather the putting him under the spotlight!
What a coincidence you bring this up, I wrote in another thread we did exactly the same to Weitering last year, after Lynchy had 6 on Rowe! Only our fans forget Weitering quietened Lynch down last season, but perhaps not after being elbowed in the face by a flying defender though! ;)
re the bold, i can't blame bolts for this.
In the 3rd he tried Weitering forward. He was trying to win the game. In the last he rolled the dice and threw Jones in the ruck to allow Casboult to back forward and provide another marking option we were sorely missing up forward. That meant weitering had to go back to cover Jones.
Obviously neither option worked, but there was no point doing the same thing we were already doing as it clearly wasn't working.
Interesting perspective, I would say we moved Casboult forward as a last resort, having tried him in the ruck and floating defensively inside D50, it was all that we had left to do with him and it happened at the expense of others! You write like moving Casboult into F50 was doing the others some sort of favour, it's the only place on the ground we could hide him!
Pies hit hard again with injuries and good time to get them IMO. They could have at least 8 of their best 21 out.
Moore is out for 4 weeks, Fosolo and Blair only played a half in the VFL practice match so unlikely and Wells, De Goey and Elliott yet to play any footy this year so unlikely to come straight in. Plus Reid was pulled out of last weeks game and Broomhead is out for the year.
Don't ask me why but reckon we are big chance to take the points if Kreuzer can return and we play a style similar to middle of last year.
Or dish up the rubbish we did this week and they hammer us.
Interesting week and heat will turn up further on Bolts if we go 0/3.
Interesting perspective, I would say we moved Casboult forward as a last resort, having tried him in the ruck and floating defensively inside D50, it was all that we had left to do with him and it happened at the expense of others! You write like moving Casboult into F50 was doing the others some sort of favour, it's the only place on the ground we could hide him!
Take your thoughts about Casboult out of it for a second.
He was our #1 forward....going into the game, who hadn't played forward during the game.
Last resort or otherwise, its what he knows, and we as a team expect to see. Why would we not try it?
Pies hit hard again with injuries and good time to get them IMO. They could have at least 8 of their best 21 out.
Moore is out for 4 weeks, Fosolo and Blair only played a half in the VFL practice match so unlikely and Wells, De Goey and Elliott yet to play any footy this year so unlikely to come straight in. Plus Reid was pulled out of last weeks game and Broomhead is out for the year.
Don't ask me why but reckon we are big chance to take the points if Kreuzer can return and we play a style similar to middle of last year.
Or dish up the rubbish we did this week and they hammer us.
Interesting week and heat will turn up further on Bolts if we go 0/3.
I'm sure BB will be desperate to get a win this week. Team selection is going to be very interesting and I think we'll be seeing at least a couple of the older faces back in.
This weeks ins and outs will certainly be interesting as to whether we stick with looking to the future or we try and steady the ship with some older types. Weiters definitely looks lost and somehow we have to try and fix that. I was thinking he should go to the VFL for a week or two but maybe we should give him one more week to try and settle him in a clearly defined defensive role? Problem is that would be rewarding a wretched effort and set the wrong example - a conundrum to be sure.
If one of Phillips or Lobbe is fit and available then he should come in (assuming Kreuz is still injured). I don't like the idea of Levi being up against Grundy in the ruck all day. Hopefully Kennedy will be available to bolster our midfield.
Grundy being 202cm won't be as hard as Witts at 209, given Levi's effort in round 1 against Nankervis when thrown into the ruck. Just make sure we play McKay too so there both some help and a tall target up forward. They'll be some value around the ground.
"Young forward Jack Silvagni responded to his demotion with a three-goal performance in the Northern Blues' 31-point practice match loss to Port Melbourne on Saturday at RAMS Arena.
Silvagni also collected 11 disposals.
Meanwhile, key defender Sam Rowe successfully returned from a right knee reconstruction.
Nick Graham racked up 27 disposals and 10 clearances and young tall Harry McKay booted two goals."
Food for thought from the report on the Blues VFL practice game.
Got to admire Jack, goes hard at it.
Inspires his team mates ike few others....
"Young forward Jack Silvagni responded to his demotion with a three-goal performance in the Northern Blues' 31-point practice match loss to Port Melbourne on Saturday at RAMS Arena.
Silvagni also collected 11 disposals.
Meanwhile, key defender Sam Rowe successfully returned from a right knee reconstruction.
Nick Graham racked up 27 disposals and 10 clearances and young tall Harry McKay booted two goals."
Food for thought from the report on the Blues VFL practice game.
Pies will have a few out this week but their midfield is still A grade with Pendlebury, Sidebottom and Treloar, we would want Kruezer back in to help nullify Grundy giving that trio any help...
Nick Graham is a great VFL player but will he ever deliver at senior level?
Got to admire Jack, goes hard at it.
Inspires his team mates ike few others....
I don't know who inspires who in our team, and I'm not sure how anyone outside the club would know either. Maybe they think he's a spoilt brat with an overwhelming sense of entitlement.
At any rate, if I was a player, I'm not sure I'd be too inspired by the Ed Curnows and Jacks of this world. We have, and have had, far too many "honest" players that give 100% but that come up short in too many areas. The minute you find yourself saying "I admire him, but.........." that's when you know the jig is up.
I'd be a lot more inspired by players that can do a little magic that very few can do, that can break the game open with 1 quarter of brilliance.
Silvagni and McKay must play this week, our front six was hopeless on Saturday.
Lamb should go, he tries hard enough but he's not much good when all's said and done.
Still can't believe we dropped Silvagni and took away another of our top five scorers from last season and added zero forwards to our team last week.
Still can't believe we dropped Silvagni and took away another of our top five scorers from last season and added zero forwards to our team last week.
Because they aren't allowed to drop Casboult! ;)
Because they aren't allowed to drop Casboult! ;)
Anybody who scored more than 15 goals in season 2017 should be a walk up start for a team that has trouble scoring!
Still can't believe we dropped Silvagni and took away another of our top five scorers from last season and added zero forwards to our team last week.
He needed dropping like Weitering does....Jack responded, Weitering needs to do the same...
Anybody who scored more than 15 goals in season 2017 should be a walk up start for a team that has trouble scoring!
I know this stat exists, because Champion Data record it and the media report on it from time to time for various players.
I want to know how many times we went to Casboult for that goal return, and how that compares to any other AFL forward?
I know this stat exists, because Champion Data record it and the media report on it from time to time for various players.
I want to know how many times we went to Casboult for that goal return, and how that compares to any other AFL forward?
Irrespective, the stats are going to include times we went to him and probably shouldn't have because he was double teamed and there were free men elsewhere (which is my biggest gripe).
Irrespective, the stats are going to include times we went to him and probably shouldn't have because he was double teamed and there were free men elsewhere (which is my biggest gripe).
That is irrelevant.
That is irrelevant.
It's not though.
It's not though.
The wrong decisions happen to every player, not every player gets such exclusive focus for so very very little return!
Lets look at the bright side, Casboult must be super fit, because if Jarryd Roughead or Tom Hawkins had so much of the footy coming their way they would be so exhausted from repeat efforts the team would have to carry them off the ground.
Remember that day we tried to get Fev his ton against the Dawks?
Meat just strolls along off the ground with the rest, what a man!
Who would you rather have showing the kids the way?
Most of us are well aware of Casboult's limitations but the bottom line is that as of today he's the best of a bad lot.
He'll be in the side this weekend and will probably be for the rest of the season, and maybe again next year unless at least one of our project players takes the necessary step, as supporters of a poorly performing side we just have to live with it.
Most of us are well aware of Casboult's limitations but the bottom line is that as of today he's the best of a bad lot.
He'll be in the side this weekend and will probably be for the rest of the season, and maybe again next year unless at least one of our project players takes the necessary step, as supporters of a poorly performing side we just have to live with it.
Spot on. The club is also no doubt all to painfully aware of Levi's limitations but know that we are not really well placed to replace him immediately. I don't stress about him atm as I have confidence that one of the club's high priorities would be to do something about it, and hopefully we have guys on board who may provide at least part of the solution. I am troubled though by what we all witnessed last Sat which involved a hell of a lot more players than just Levi, and hopefully we can put that nightmare behind us this week. I will be watching via TV with great anticipation and a few beers handy. :)
Spot on. The club is also no doubt all to painfully aware of Levi's limitations but know that we are not really well placed to replace him immediately. I don't stress about him atm as I have confidence that one of the club's high priorities would be to do something about it, and hopefully we have guys on board who may provide at least part of the solution. I am troubled though by what we all witnessed last Sat which involved a hell of a lot more players than just Levi, and hopefully we can put that nightmare behind us this week. I will be watching via TV with great anticipation and a few beers handy. :)
They've had almost 10 years, how long does it take?
How much of what we saw is the result of deflated spirits, is low performance contagious?
What are the potential long term effects on the kids we draft, is there any risk?
They've had almost 10 years, how long does it take?
How much of what we saw is the result of deflated spirits, is low performance contagious?
What are the potential long term effects on the kids we draft, is there any risk?
BB and SOS haven't been there for 10 years already? Gee, that time just flew. ???
So you don't think Harry or Kerr are likely to be the answers - should we go after Lynch?
BB and SOS haven't been there for 10 years already? Gee, that time just flew. ???
So you don't think Harry or Kerr are likely to be the answers - should we go after Lynch?
Do you think starting 2018 that Casboult is a new untested prospect?
The club has had a long time to address the Casboult / KPF issue, it's hasn't just happened since BB and SOS arrived.
In regard to Kerr and McKay, I've written the exact opposite of what you conclude, I have no idea where the other half of the conversation in your head is coming from.
BB and SOS haven't been there for 10 years already? Gee, that time just flew. ???
So you don't think Harry or Kerr are likely to be the answers - should we go after Lynch?
Harry and Kerr may or may not make the grade, we've had plenty of would be key position players over the last decade and so far we've come up empty handed.
I doubt that Lynch would see Carlton as an attractive destination, if he leaves GC my money would be on him going to a top four club, or at least a club with the potential to be top four.
As of now Carlton is a long way from that.
Harry and Kerr may or may not make the grade, we've had plenty of would be key position players over the last decade and so far we've come up empty handed.
I doubt that Lynch would see Carlton as an attractive destination, if he leaves GC my money would be on him going to a top four club.
There are a lot of people at Carlton who think Lynch is coming to us because of some Sorrento / Carlton connections. But the Sorrento connections I have stated that Collingwood is the front runner, followed by CheatsFC and then even the Aints are ahead of us! If we are even an option we are in a distant 4th place!
How do we know if McKay and Kerr can cut it if we keep playing Casboult, will they be the next two players we cut in a year we renew Casboult's contract?
If we are going to put up with Casboult dishing up that crap, we may as well have the kids get a taste of the big time along side somebody who will look after them like a Rowe or ACoS.
There are a lot of people at Carlton who think Lynch is coming to us because of some Sorrento / Carlton connections. But the Sorrento connections I have stated that Collingwood is the front runner, followed by CheatsFC and then even the Aints are ahead of us! If we are even an option we are in a distant 4th place!
How do we know if McKay and Kerr can cut it if we keep playing Casboult, will they be the next two players we cut in a year we renew Casboult's contract?
If we are going to put up with Casboult dishing up that crap, we may as well have the kids get a taste of the big time along side somebody who will look after them like a Rowe or ACoS.
The rumours from the media suggest Collingwood have offered plenty and are well ahead of other clubs.......did hear that GC have been saving a warchest of money for Lynch and hope to keep him.
Jeremy Cameron as I stated previously will receive a big offer from GC.....
We might be better chasing Patton from GWS who will be cheaper ...
The AFL will do everything possible to keep Lynch up there.
I would try Alex Silvagni forward, I reckon he could be a bash and crash forward type similar to what Hamil gave us years back. Cause some mayhem in the forward line, give us some flexibility back as well. He has plenty of dash about him. As for Jack Silvagni, I think forward and perhaps build him up as a wing or even inside mid, he is willing in the contest and that is hard to teach.
Play to the strengths.
The AFL will do everything possible to keep Lynch up there.
It's true.
The AFL have openly confirmed it will pay him an allowance as an AFL Qld Ambassador, but they won't confirm the amount until after he signs on at GC.
I would try Alex Silvagni forward.
I agree, ACoS, Rowe, somebody that can lead the kids by example, anyone but Casboult!
Harry and Kerr may or may not make the grade, we've had plenty of would be key position players over the last decade and so far we've come up empty handed.
I doubt that Lynch would see Carlton as an attractive destination, if he leaves GC my money would be on him going to a top four club, or at least a club with the potential to be top four.
As of now Carlton is a long way from that.
Patrick Kerr may not be far away from his first game. I have liked what I have seen in the VFL, always competes, just needs to build the fitness base. McKay will be fine as well once he gets a run at it.
We might be better chasing Patton from GWS who will be cheaper ...
Personally, I think we need to stop chasing messiah type players, cut away the current long term dead wood, and put some effort into developing our own future talent.
I think we need at least two more ACoS types, blokes in the twilight of their career that provide some mongrel but will sacrifice for the team. Blokes who can lead the kids in the right direction, by example, not just preserve their spot by hitching a ride on the kids themselves.
When do Kerr or McKay get the same faith that our club has shown Casboult?
We have talent on the list now, just need to play them. Kerr and MacKay will be good I think, I do think however they need to build the fitness base. Both had a lot of time out with injury.
We have talent on the list now, just need to play them. Kerr and MacKay will be good I think, I do think however they need to build the fitness base. Both had a lot of time out with injury.
Agreed, returning from significant injuries is a problem for both.
But sooner or later SPF, we have to pull the trigger, what is the point of drafting this talent while we keep on keeping on with the same old same old crew delivering rubbish like last weekend?
Even if they are crap, at least I get to see a new face delivering it!
Agreed, returning from significant injuries is a problem for both.
But sooner or later SPF, we have to pull the trigger, what is the point of drafting this talent while we keep on keeping on with the same old same old crew delivering rubbish like last weekend?
Even if they are crap, at least I get to see a new face delivering it!
LP I think one or both are very close to selection. They have only just finished the last round of practice games, this unfortunately was the only hit out they had prior to now. If you're going to play them, perhaps now is not a bad time, the other teams are still getting their fitness base up after the season start, however I think you would have to manage them. Either of Kerr or McKay for instance could be played off a wing or half forward flank, this would mean the defenders have to run with and give the young guys a run at the ball. Parking them in the forward 50 would simply invite rebounds from our forward half.
If you going to park anyone in the forward 50, it has to be either Casboult of Rowe IMHO. They are the best we have right now. Alex Silvagni on the lead, also bash and crash them inside 50. This would keep the defense honest at least. They would not be able to zone off at will.
On another issue.
I think it would be a mistake to bring SoJ back immediately, let him string two or three good games together first and not just a VFL practice match.
If you going to park anyone in the forward 50, it has to be either Casboult of Rowe IMHO. They are the best we have right now. Alex Silvagni on the lead, also bash and crash them inside 50. This would keep the defense honest at least. They would not be able to zone off at will.
I think you can park ACoS there because it's clear the game and winning means something to him, he'll be very vocal and the kids will not be left wondering what should have happened!
Anyway, injury wise ACoS is 3 to 4 weeks away at best.
On another issue.
I think it would be a mistake to bring SoJ back immediately, let him string two or three good games together first and not just a VFL practice match.
Agreed. Most here were saying he needs a spell in the 2s but want him back in the side because we lost.
Agree with finding a role up forward for ASOC or Rowe for two reasons. 1. We need some fillers while our forward line takes shape with the likes of McKay, Kerr, Pickett (inj) not yet ready to hold a regular place and 2. We want our back six for the next ten years to work together, so keep them together (Simmo survives warnings Docs's spot). We don't want Rowe or ACOS down there unless injuries play a part.
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/reid-cox-to-return-for-magpies-clash-with-carlton-20180403-p4z7hx.html
Cox in, there's our first lucky break.
Cox in, there's our first lucky break.
Knowing our luck Cox will probabaly star ,we seem to have a habit of bringing players into form ,hope I am wrong though
Cox in, there's our first lucky break.
Prefer if Reid, Fasalo and Blair were not inclusions though.....lucky Elliott is still injured too..
Agree with finding a role up forward for ASOC or Rowe for two reasons. 1. We need some fillers while our forward line takes shape with the likes of McKay, Kerr, Pickett (inj) not yet ready to hold a regular place and 2. We want our back six for the next ten years to work together, so keep them together (Simmo survives warnings Docs's spot). We don't want Rowe or ACOS down there unless injuries play a part.
I agree with all those sentiments except I don't call them fillers up forward, they are the role models, teachers, tone setters.
At the moment our young forwards are learning off Casboult, whatever are they learning? :o
Am I being unfair?
Do you think starting 2018 that Casboult is a new untested prospect?
The club has had a long time to address the Casboult / KPF issue, it's hasn't just happened since BB and SOS arrived.
In regard to Kerr and McKay, I've written the exact opposite of what you conclude, I have no idea where the other half of the conversation in your head is coming from.
Of course it hasn't. The club's strategy has been much more far reaching than just aiming to relieve your anxieties about Levi. That strategy was, as we all know, to do a complete rebuild and to bring in SOS and BB to execute that, As part of that we have Harry and Kerr on board and under development and we are no doubt searching for others as we speak.
In the meantime we look like we have two short term transition options in Sam Rowe or ACOS. I have no problem if we try them out tbh but we have been largely prevented from that recently because of injuries.
Again you are letting your hatred for someone distract you, and btw I was asking you a question not trying to imply that I Know what's going on in your mind :o. I have concluded nothing about Harry and Kerr - other than that they are on our books and we are hopeful, otherwise the jury is out.
I agree with all those sentiments except I don't call them fillers up forward, they are the role models, teachers, tone setters.
At the moment our young forwards are learning off Casboult, whatever are they learning? :o
Am I being unfair?
The long bow is out of the cabinet again?
Reality is that Kerr was pick 65, even Jack was pick 53...only Harry and Charlie C would be seen as a good chance to make it....
Harry has a lot of pressure on him to make it and I reckon the footy dept want that pressure on slow release and wont be playing him in the seniors if they dont have to..
This season is probably a write off in terms of ladder position making major progress etc and the forward line is still very experimental. if I was guessing I think the club will try and recruit a more readymade KP Forward for 2019 to help take the heat off the kids and also win some games as the pressure builds on Bolton and SOS.
The long bow is out of the cabinet again?
Give me your alternatives, which player do you put besides the kids for them to learn off? Who leads them in F50?
If you want to ask critical questions, accept that the questions you pose imply a position whether you mean it or not. If you fail to make the meaning behind a question explicit, I'm free to infer whatever I like!
Again you are letting your hatred for someone distract you,
Not hatred, reality, we know what Casboult delivers, do we want more of the same from our young recruits?
Who sets the kids on the straight and narrow Cookie2, or who sends them off the rails! Is it only the coaching staff, or do those around them contribute to the long term outcome?
Is Casboult a positive or negative contributing factor or is he a nothing, he must be at least one of those options?
Give me your alternatives, which player do you put besides the kids for them to learn off? Who leads them in F50?
If you want to ask critical questions, accept that the questions you pose imply a position whether you mean it or not.
Not hatred, reality, we know what Casboult delivers, do we want more of the same from our young recruits?
Who sets them on the straight and narrow Cookie2, or who sends them off the rails! Is it only the coaching staff, or do those around them contribute to the long term outcome?
Casboult as we all know is year by year proposition and I very much doubt that he has any real role to play in the coaching of young players, in the same way as you vehemently pointed out some time ago would Lobbe. The youngsters are going currently going through a development process mapped out by the club, playing mainly in the VFL so far, and both Kerr and Harry have not even played alongside Levi that much. Do you think that BB says to them "I'm taking you both to watch the seniors today and I want you both to watch Levi closely, be in wonder and learn". :))
PS. Beware of trying to interpret what people may or may not be implying - tricky process that.
Levi is filling a role...but he's not a role model...I don't think anyone regards him as such.
With Kreuzer out he's been asked to shoulder a bit of extra weight.
As a result he's probably being marked a bit more harshly than usual...and he's usually marked pretty harshly.
I feel a bit sorry for him...expectations have always been high but who has he had in the side to learn from?
Who has been his KPF mentor?
He's also our only mature key forward at the moment....and that's been the case for some time.
It actually makes you think about sticking Rowe and A. Silvagni into that forward line with Casboult and rotating the young'uns through.
While not necessarily role models they offer maturity, experience and a bit of protection.
We need to stop thinking of Levi teaching the youngsters.
He's not there to show them anything, he's there to help give them some room to grow.
Not all players are leaders and I would wager that the nominated leader we have in our forwardline is Matthew Wright, and I am more than happy with that scenario.
Casboult as we all know is year by year proposition and I very much doubt that he has any real role to play in the coaching of young players, in the same way as you vehemently pointed out some time ago would Lobbe. The youngsters are going currently going through a development process mapped out by the club, playing mainly in the VFL so far, and both Kerr and Harry have not even played alongside Levi that much. Do you think that BB says to them "I'm taking you both to watch the seniors today and I want you both to watch Levi closely, be in wonder and learn". :))
PS. Beware of trying to interpret what people may or may not be implying - tricky process that.
I don't agree, all senior players are role models, and young players learn playing along side them you cannot deny that!
I have no doubt Lobbe is setting new standards on the training track, which was the context of the earlier discussion, it's what he is globally known for in AFL circles.
if I was guessing I think the club will try and recruit a more readymade KP Forward for 2019 to help take the heat off the kids and also win some games as the pressure builds on Bolton and SOS.
I think more Tom McDonald than Tom Lynch, we would have to sell the farm for Lynch - ask yourself; what do we actually need? We think McKay will make it but needs time, then we really need some support and a filler who can be effective elsewhere longer term. Patton from GWS gets mentioned alot, I think he can only really play one position, similarly Boyd from the Dogs. There are Tom McDonald types out there on club lists or in the state leagues that could be effective.
What is the measure of effective? Able to contribute 1 - 2 goals per game? Able to pinch hit in the ruck? Perhaps able to swing back in defence?
I think more Tom McDonald than Tom Lynch, we would have to sell the farm for Lynch - ask yourself; what do we actually need? We think McKay will make it but needs time, then we really need some support and a filler who can be effective elsewhere longer term. Patton from GWS gets mentioned alot, I think he can only really play one position, similarly Boyd from the Dogs. There are Tom McDonald types out there on club lists or in the state leagues that could be effective.
What is the measure of effective? Able to contribute 1 - 2 goals per game? Able to pinch hit in the ruck? Perhaps able to swing back in defence?
Its why we are in no hurry to ditch Levi.
He is bad enough for them to go past him the second they are truly 4 quarter competitive prospects at AFL level, but strong enough to draw a couple of players to him and help give the kids some room in our forwardline.
The shame in it, is that no one has gone past him yet. Even Weitering who is dubbed as able to play forward and back, is thus far proving not to be as effective a forward as Levi.
If fit and sounds like they will be, I'd be bringing back Kreuzer and Kennedy as a matter of urgency.
Out then are Weitering and Lamb for mine.
FWIW, out two best key defenders for mine are Jones and Alex Silvagni. I'd love to see them play together with an in-form Weitering or Marchbank or O'Shea the intercept third tall.
Re Marchbank, I think he will out grow a spot down back, and become a winger/forward of note.
Re Plowman, this week I wouldn't mind sending either him or Marchbank forward with Charlie Curnow and Casboult.
Re our Backline - I'd have talls in Jones, O'Shea and one of Plowman/Marchbank. More run and carry. I'm not against Paddy Dow running off half-back and/or Polson as a small lock down defender (ala Rory Laird type/style).
Re our Midfield - gotta be more accountable.
re our Forwardline - Charlie Curnow is the leader with Wright. Add Casboult and one of Plowman/Marchbank. Others include Cripps and Murphy ofcourse at times, Kennedy too plus Garlett. I want Garlett to play forward and to HUNT the opposition defenders. Polson if played forward could do this too. Accountable small forwards who tackle and harass to force turnovers. I reckon we are too slow with Lamb and Thomas forward.
Re our skills - simply gotta be better. Not much match committee can so, game plans, etc when you make such critical and fundamental skill errors on a regular basis. Simple as that.
So....
B: Byrne, Jones, O'Shea
Hb: Cuningham, Marchbank, Simpson
C: Fisher, Cripps, E.Curnow
Hf: Plowman, C.Curnow, Murphy
F: Wright, Casboult, Garlett
Foll: Kreuzer, Kennedy
Rov: Petrevski-Seton
I/c: Dow, Thomas, Polson, Mullett
B: Byrne, Jones, O'Shea
Hb: Cuningham, Marchbank, Simpson
C: Fisher, Cripps, E.Curnow
Hf: Plowman, C.Curnow, Murphy
F: Wright, Casboult, Garlett
Foll: Kreuzer, Kennedy
Rov: Petrevski-Seton
I/c: Dow, Thomas, Polson, Mullett
If Kreuzer and Kennedy don't get up?
I don't agree, all senior players are role models, and young players learn playing along side them you cannot deny that!
I have no doubt Lobbe is setting new standards on the training track, which was the context of the earlier discussion, it's what he is globally known for in AFL circles.
Different emphasis for different circumstances? Sorry, your argument loses credibility. I will waste no further time discussing it with you.
If Kreuzer and Kennedy don't get up?
We may be on struggle street again.
If Kreuzer is not right, then we have to play a ruckman - Lobbe or Phillips.
If Kennedy doesn't get up, I'd consider Kerridge or Graham.
Different emphasis for different circumstances? Sorry, your argument loses credibility. I will waste no further time discussing it with you.
All senior players are role models, there is no different emphasis for different circumstances or situations, I do not know where you think you've read that.
I'm not sure where you have made a connect between Lobbe as ruckmen being a role model to our young KPFs. If you can find the post that references that I'm happy to stand corrected, but I think you'll find any discussions from me regarding Lobbe would have been in reference to rucks and training.
All senior players have to bring something to the table to contribute to the development of kids, just as the coaches and training staff do, if they don't they are a waste of space and have no place in the club!
There is this KPF/Ruck Merry-Go-Round that Casboult's boosters live on, maybe that is where you are getting confused! ;) You know those arguments well, one says he is a KPF when he has a bad ruck day, the alternative is that he's a useful 2nd Ruck when he spuds it up inside F50!
My argument is pretty simple, he is not much value at either, and it's holding us back!
What is the measure of effective? Able to contribute 1 - 2 goals per game? Able to pinch hit in the ruck? Perhaps able to swing back in defence?
His name is Rowe ;D
All senior players are role models, there is no different emphasis for different circumstances or situations, I do not know where you think you've read that.
I'm not sure where you have made a connect between Lobbe as ruckmen being a role model to our young KPFs. If you can find the post that references that I'm happy to stand corrected, but I think you'll find any discussions regarding Lobbe would have been in reference to rucks and training.
All senior players have to bring something to the table to contribute to the development of kids, just as the coaches and training staff do, if they don't they are a waste of space and have no place in the club!
There is this KPF/Ruck Merry-go-Round that Casboult's boosters live on, maybe that is where you are getting confused! ;) You know those arguments well, one says he is a KPF when he has a bad ruck day, the alternative is that he's a useful 2nd Ruck when he spuds it up inside F50!
My argument is pretty simple, he is not much value at either!
So what half intelligent young AFL footballer would consider him a role model then?? I'm sure they are guided by the coaching staff as to the players who they need to study and learn from? This would not be left purely to chance.? By your measure, Levi would be hardly one those they are lining up to learn from then? :)
No, sorry, hatred is driving you to persist with this one I'm afraid LP. EOS.
So what half intelligent young AFL footballer would consider him a role model then??
If the kids pick up bad habits from an 8 or 10 year player, is it the kids fault?
Why did we get rid of Mitch Robinson, his football is clearly good enough, different emphasis for different circumstances?
I'm sure they are guided by the coaching staff as to the players who they need to study and learn from? This would not be left purely to chance?
Are you implying none of our coaches would point to Casboult as a role model, is this an argument for me or against me?
By your measure, Levi would be hardly one those they are lining up to learn from then? :)
Then way is he there Cookie2?
I wouldn't be rushing to drop Lamb.
He wasn't too bad last week, and ditto the week before. Others more worthy of demotion than he is.
He is one of the only players in the side who offers genuine aggression as well. We need that, lest we become punching bags.
After Saturdays debacle, nowhere have i seen any blame set upon our match committee. The game was lost at the selection table way before the the ball was even bounced so blaming players is a little unfair. The balance of the team was poor and we never stood a chance. On top of this we hit an in form GC which admittedly after watching them live, they will worry many teams this year. Plenty of hard bodies too against slighter frames. Great warm weather was on their side too so it was a perfect storm for us as a team.
We just weren't ready on Saturday and feel we would have learnt plenty both on and off field.
Your thoughts
After Saturdays debacle, nowhere have i seen any blame set upon our match committee. The game was lost at the selection table way before the the ball was even bounced so blaming players is a little unfair. The balance of the team was poor and we never stood a chance. On top of this we hit an in form GC which admittedly after watching them live, they will worry many teams this year. Plenty of hard bodies too against slighter frames. Great warm weather was on their side too so it was a perfect storm for us as a team.
We just weren't ready on Saturday and feel we would have learnt plenty both on and off field.
Your thoughts
In fairness to the forum Blueray, I think if you browse through the post match thread you'll find the odd criticism of the MC scattered here and there!
But of course the faceless men never cop the same amount of heat as the front line actors.
If the kids pick up bad habits from an 8 or 10 year player, is it the kids fault?
Why did we get rid of Mitch Robinson, his football is clearly good enough, different emphasis for different circumstances?
Are you implying none of our coaches would point to Casboult as a role model, is this an argument for me or against me?
Then way is he there Cookie2?
WTF, Mitch's back now! Mate, I leave you with the last words - it is very important to you to have that honour obviously, and this conversation has clearly run its course.
I wouldn't be rushing to drop Lamb.
He wasn't too bad last week, and ditto the week before. Others more worthy of demotion than he is.
He is one of the only players in the side who offers genuine aggression as well. We need that, lest we become punching bags.
Lamb is rarely bad, but he's also rarely good, he's another in between player too good for the VFL and not good enough for the seniors.
We've had plenty of them in the recent past, better to give young O'Brien or Jack Silvagni a game in my opinion, they at least have the potential to become competent senior players.
After Saturdays debacle, nowhere have i seen any blame set upon our match committee. The game was lost at the selection table way before the the ball was even bounced so blaming players is a little unfair. The balance of the team was poor and we never stood a chance. On top of this we hit an in form GC which admittedly after watching them live, they will worry many teams this year. Plenty of hard bodies too against slighter frames. Great warm weather was on their side too so it was a perfect storm for us as a team.
We just weren't ready on Saturday and feel we would have learnt plenty both on and off field.
Your thoughts
Can only partially agree, the game in my opinion was lost when Gold Coast brought physical intensity to the contest. Carlton did not, and generally do not, respond to physical sides. We have routinely been beaten up for nearly two decades. That is a stone cold fact. If you want to beat the Blues you out pressure them, and put intensive pressure over the ball. Most times, Carlton will wilt like flowers in the Sun.
Can only partially agree, the game in my opinion was lost when Gold Coast brought physical intensity to the contest. Carlton did not, and generally do not, respond to physical sides. We have routinely been beaten up for nearly two decades. That is a stone cold fact. If you want to beat the Blues you out pressure them, and put intensive pressure over the ball. Most times, Carlton will wilt like flowers in the Sun.
In the bolton era this has been less prominent.
We were fairly meek on the weekend, and even got within a couple of kicks at one point on a day when we were generally not very good.
WTF, Mitch's back now! Mate, I leave you with the last words - it is very important to you to have that honour obviously, and this conversation has clearly run its course.
Last words, I posed four questions giving you the chance to respond!
It seems to me you are the one trying to kill off the questions with some misdirection!
Can only partially agree, the game in my opinion was lost when Gold Coast brought physical intensity to the contest. Carlton did not, and generally do not, respond to physical sides. We have routinely been beaten up for nearly two decades. That is a stone cold fact. If you want to beat the Blues you out pressure them, and put intensive pressure over the ball. Most times, Carlton will wilt like flowers in the Sun.
Agree...been one of my issues for years is the lack of physicality especially when the heat gets turned on and a few of our blokes hit the deck....May roughed up a few of our blokes and the only player who attempted to fly the flag was Kade Simpson, even our bigger players struggle to dish it back and I think most teams know we are soft and will fold up when it gets willing...
Players who will stick it back to the opposition are ACOS, Rowe, Williamson and Big Harry and I think we look a better team when we have some more aggression on the field......
Players who will stick it back to the opposition are ACOS, Rowe, Williamson and Big Harry and I think we look a better team when we have some more aggression on the field......
I think Macreadie has also showed a bit, and at times last season Cripps, Charlie, Plowman, Marchbank and Weitering were very quick to defend team-mates.
In general it's been the younger blokes, while only ACoS, Rowe and Daisy were prepared to enter the fray.
Kennedy looks willing, but I haven't seen him tested yet, it will come!
Late last season Murphy has tried to hand out some bumps in traffic, he has tried it on a couple of times this season as well but he just hurts himself. We shouldn't ask him to try, or want him to try for that matter, because if he's injured we are stuffed.
None of our current ruckmen are of that type, although Kreuzer's manic single minded attack on the football incidentally causes some mighty bumps. Can't recall Lobbe being much of an enforcer, certainly none of them are Mumford.
Have to be careful about this discussion, there are many versions of flying the flag, some people mean handing out heavy shepherds or square ups, while others think it's entering a scuffle for a biff!
Do you think starting 2018 that Casboult is a new untested prospect?
The club has had a long time to address the Casboult / KPF issue, it's hasn't just happened since BB and SOS arrived.
In regard to Kerr and McKay, I've written the exact opposite of what you conclude, I have no idea where the other half of the conversation in your head is coming from.
Really? We went Weitering (who was always supposed to go forward at some point), Curnow, McKay and Silvagni in 1 draft. That's the foundation of the list build.
We've since added DeKonig and Kerr and there was the huge investment in Marchbank who is effectively a draft pick - who was also supposed to be capable of playing forward.
The bulk of these guys are struggling - but they are still young and have time. I'm not panicking just yet... though I'm getting nervous after Saturday. That performance was so bad that it is hard to be anything other than ultra-negative about everything Carlton at the minute.
Really? We went Weitering (who was always supposed to go forward at some point), Curnow, McKay and Silvagni in 1 draft. That's the foundation of the list build.
We've since added DeKonig and Kerr and there was the huge investment in Marchbank who is effectively a draft pick - who was also supposed to be capable of playing forward.
The bulk of these guys are struggling - but they are still young and have time. I'm not panicking just yet... though I'm getting nervous after Saturday. That performance was so bad that it is hard to be anything other than ultra-negative about everything Carlton at the minute.
I agree with all that except the point in bold, Weitering is a player who can go forward and will go forward, but there was no way he was recruited to go forward from the get go.
His game right through juniors has always been KPD, who has the ability to press forward and hit the scoreboard. Even in many of the games he scored bags of goals, a lot of them came from starting on the defensive side of the square and intercepting marks not lead up marks.
There is one thing that does concern me about Weitering, the kid is a prodigious kick and I mean Fevola like in length and accuracy. I'd say on the drop punt he would easily have someone like Tuohy covered. But we just haven't seen it at Carlton and I have no idea why! A couple of his past team mates never made it to AFL and are now heading off to the NFL on scholarships as punters. They roost drop punts 60+ meters regularly and Weitering had most of them covered.
Last words, I posed four questions giving you the chance to respond!
It seems to me you are the one trying to kill off the questions with some misdirection!
QED
Contention: Casboult is a leader.
Explanation: He has been in the AFL system for a long time, is an older player in AFL terms.
Comparison: Jake Stringer, Kurt Tippett, Jack Watts
Conclusion: Bollocks. Plenty of senior players are not role models. Most get moved on, but nobody wanted Casboult.
Every argument based on the above contention is therefor deemed null and void as initial contention is incorrect.
Here end the lesson.
Contention: Casboult is a leader.
Explanation: He has been in the AFL system for a long time, is an older player in AFL terms.
Comparison: Jake Stringer, Kurt Tippett, Jack Watts
Conclusion: Bollocks. Plenty of senior players are not role models. Most get moved on, but nobody wanted Casboult.
Every argument based on the above contention is therefor deemed null and void as initial contention is incorrect.
Here end the lesson.
So a Role model is a Leader? :o
btw., Who used the "Leader" word in the Casboult context, if I did feel free to link to it!
Any argument based on the above contention is therefor deemed null and void as initial contention that a role model is a leader is incorrect. A role model may be a leader, but they are not dependent terms even if they had been mutually stated. Here end
eth the lesson. ;)
PS; I think what you have offered is technically called an Ambiguity of Cross Reference, or it may be a Lexical Ambiguity like a Polysemy, it's all Greek to me! ;D
So a Role model is a Leader? :o
btw., Who used the "Leader" word in the Casboult context, if I did feel free to link to it!
Any argument based on the above contention is therefor deemed null and void as initial contention that a role model is a leader is incorrect. A role model may be a leader, but they are not dependent terms even if they had been mutually stated. Here endeth the lesson. ;)
PS; I think what you have offered is technically called an Ambiguity of Cross Reference.
role model, leader
potayto, potahto
role model, leader
potayto, potahto
Really?
So I take it you didn't find the "Leader" word anywhere in the recent threads, but you'll claim you didn't bother looking! ;D
Really?
So I take it you didn't find the "Leader" word anywhere in the recent threads, but you'll claim you didn't bother looking! ;D
I've read all the recent threads for the day, basically at once. You were b!tch!ng about casboult in all of them. I don't take note of who says what word first and what not.
If you wanna get pedantic about the difference between a leader and a role model in relation to casboult you are simply deflecting and conceding.
Point stands. I will not be drawn on the nomenclature.
Lamb is rarely bad, but he's also rarely good, he's another in between player too good for the VFL and not good enough for the seniors.
We've had plenty of them in the recent past, better to give young O'Brien or Jack Silvagni a game in my opinion, they at least have the potential to become competent senior players.
One of those "good for depth" players. Someone you can bring in and will at least be ok.
One of those "good for depth" players. Someone you can bring in and will at least be ok.
Except that at Carlton he's in our best 22.
Point stands. I will not be drawn on the nomenclature.
I didn't realise role model was nomenclature for a leader, Hitler was a leader wasn't he, and Churchill too! :o
One in the same, role models and leaders?
Kruddler, there was no argument to make your point against, you have constructed an absurdity. Still it does stand except only as a point against something that never existed!
Except that at Carlton he's in our best 22.
Not once Pickett and Lang are back...
He doesn't do enough, consistently in my book. Like his niggle, but more needed!
That said if we're getting belted in the guts bit hard for the forwards to shine.... though the I50 count suggested something else was awry last weekend.
It's something Ive commented about consistently, but our forwards dont work hard enough off the ball. I watched them a couple of times when the ball was in our half forward area and no one was leading, no one was positioning themselves or looking to provide blocks. Stationary, waiting for the ball to drop in their vicinity. Not good enough. A lot of people blame the mids for our poor entry into our forward line, I blame the forwards for not working hard enough.
It's something Ive commented about consistently, but our forwards dont work hard enough off the ball. I watched them a couple of times when the ball was in our half forward area and no one was leading, no one was positioning themselves or looking to provide blocks. Stationary, waiting for the ball to drop in their vicinity. Not good enough. A lot of people blame the mids for our poor entry into our forward line, I blame the forwards for not working hard enough.
It's like a cancer spreading through of F50, they need an experienced head to show them the way! ;)
The lack of blocks, bumps and shepherds is simply astounding, we hardly impede opposition defenders!
If you get a chance, watch some of the long vision from the Nthmond game, compare what the Nthmond forwards do as the very basics compared to same F50 entry from Carlton. They are part of a team, we are six individuals.
Regardless we need to defeat the Pies this Friday night, because Nothing Else Matters!
It's like a cancer spreading through of F50, they need an experienced head to show them the way! ;)
The lack of blocks, bumps and shepherds is simply astounding, we hardly impede opposition defenders!
If you get a chance, watch some of the long vision from the Nthmond game, compare what the Nthmond forwards do as the very basics compared to same F50 entry from Carlton. They are part of a team, we are six individuals.
Regardless we need to defeat the Pies this Friday night, because Nothing Else Matters!
Dont think too many were keen to try and block May......
Dont think too many were keen to try and block May......
Yeah, that's last week. Would be shameful if true, but still doesn't explain every other week for the past 4 or 5 years.
It's something Ive commented about consistently, but our forwards dont work hard enough off the ball. I watched them a couple of times when the ball was in our half forward area and no one was leading, no one was positioning themselves or looking to provide blocks. Stationary, waiting for the ball to drop in their vicinity. Not good enough. A lot of people blame the mids for our poor entry into our forward line, I blame the forwards for not working hard enough.
Footy nowadays is about taking risks, we are still too conservative. I use Richmond as an example again, they are not a team full of stars but they are a good team who back themselves and take risks. When their inside grunt players win the ball, or a free is given to them, their outside players and small forwards have already taken a risk and made a move well and truly in advance. I sat in the bleaches in round one and it was extremely obvious from up with a full view of the entire ground. There positioning on the field is all about go hard and go early. Granted it didnt go well for them vs Adelaide but not many teams do well v Adelaide in Adelaide. We need to work harder and take more risks. Enough of the conservative flat footedness.
Footy nowadays is about taking risks, we are still too conservative. I use Richmond as an example again, they are not a team full of stars but they are a good team who back themselves and take risks. When their inside grunt players win the ball, or a free is given to them, their outside players and small forwards have already taken a risk and made a move well and truly in advance. I sat in the bleaches in round one and it was extremely obvious from up with a full view of the entire ground. There positioning on the field is all about go hard and go early. Granted it didnt go well for them vs Adelaide but not many teams do well v Adelaide in Adelaide. We need to work harder and take more risks. Enough of the conservative flat footedness.
Where we come unstuck is that we're not good enough to make our risks 50/50.
Our risks don't come off often enough and we go into our shells and many aren't prepared to make them.
Jones is perhaps one exception.
He'll always back himself.... but just lately it's not quite coming off and he's starting to cop some flack.
Where we come unstuck is that we're not good enough to make our risks 50/50.
Our risks don't come off often enough and we go into our shells and many aren't prepared to make them.
Jones is perhaps one exception.
He'll always back himself.... but just lately it's not quite coming off and he's starting to cop some flack.
I will half cop losing while being bold and taking the game on (ie risky). They may not always come off, practice makes perfect and eventually it will become the norm. I wont accept playing like we did v GC under any circumstances.
We will never become good until we get one thing.
Tiggers have it at the moment, The Fluffy Ducks and Dawks had it in spades, Geelong like to think they have it......
But it is BELIEF!
Carlton has been bereft of Belief for donkeys years.
Remember Carlton of old, we Believed. Always believed we were going to win and when we didn't we knew we were going to get them next time.
Unless you run out onto the park Believing you are going to win then you are just pissing into the wind and getting wet.
At the moment we are saturated. ::)
Regardless we need to defeat the Pies this Friday night, because Nothing Else Matters!
Ahhh, well done LP...I see what you did there ;)
Hopefully our lads will come out on Friday & Fight Fire with Fire......No Remorse....
Ahhh, well done LP...I see what you did there ;)
btw., What's our pre-game tune this year, I cannot say I've even noticed it?
btw., What's our pre-game tune this year, I cannot say I've even noticed it?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHPOzQzk9Qo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHPOzQzk9Qo
Touché
I need to stop listening to Radiohead pre-game, it's killing me, no surprises there!
Speaking of Pre Game tunes, its an absolute disgrace that our side ran out onto the ground and through the banner before the lily of laguna started playing on saturday.
We were a rabble off field all day on saturday which might explain more about what we saw on field than anything else.
Speaking of Pre Game tunes, its an absolute disgrace that our side ran out onto the ground and through the banner before the lily of laguna started playing on saturday.
We were a rabble off field all day on saturday which might explain more about what we saw on field than anything else.
Yep agree. Was at the game and our pre game clips were poorly done, boring and might as well been non existent. And while I'm at it, the pre match player number calling is boring and a waste of time as well IMO.
Surely its not that hard to come up with something a bit more uplifting! The one we used a few years ago when Judd was around was pretty good - cant recall the song but it used to get me going.
Jimmy Barnes 'No second prize' with some of our best moments over the last few years is the sort of clip that will get the home fans up and about, but what would I know.....club might prefer to the simple approach of just naming the players out instead :-[
Any song you pick that isn't traditional divides the supporter base.
Port are dead-set lucky because being based in SA the locals think INXS are still top of the pops! Plus they are replacing a mostly rubbish club song, so almost anything is better. But even so, it still comes across as heavily contrived.
You either have to keep up to date on this stuff, which costs a pretty penny to do because the latest and greatest want royalties, or you go the traditional route and forget the whiz bang.
For an example of what not to do, which moron thought Nthmond should update their song? Probably alongside Da-Da-Da-Da-Da one of the most widely recognised club songs in the Aussie Sports landscape! So good it's annoys everybody else just like our own song, when they tried to fiddle with it around the edges they made it the butt of jokes!
Speaking of Pre Game tunes, its an absolute disgrace that our side ran out onto the ground and through the banner before the lily of laguna started playing on saturday.
We were a rabble off field all day on saturday which might explain more about what we saw on field than anything else.
Even the pies were ordinary! ;)
Even the pies were ordinary! ;)
Hopefully the Pies will also be ordinary this Friday.
Hopefully the Pies will also be ordinary this Friday.
Yep, we want them cold (as long as the beer isn't warm).
Yep, we want them cold (as long as the beer isn't warm).
Carlton always use to deliver cold Pies at Princes Park! ;)
So it looks like Kennedy and Kreuzer are both back, I'd be confident about Kennedy as the back room rumor mongers said he was closer last week than SpecialK.
It may well be a Psoas injury for SpecialK as it looked to me, in that case his return is typical because he'll be pain free by now but his power and agility might be diminished for an extended period. But do not be surprised if SpecialK is again a late out with Phillips in.
BB Presser much better this week, sounds back to his best, no bullcrap sensible responses to even some stupid questions.
Like his positivity, like the support he is showing for Jones and Weitering.
Fills me with hope, and should shut up even the most ardent critics.
I wouldn't be rushing to drop Lamb.
He wasn't too bad last week, and ditto the week before. Others more worthy of demotion than he is.
He is one of the only players in the side who offers genuine aggression as well. We need that, lest we become punching bags.
He should be playing that niggling defensive role more often IMHO. That's his go. Forward and even onball/wing at times.
He should be playing that niggling defensive role more often IMHO. That's his go. Forward and even onball/wing at times.
If it's niggling inside F50 I agree, he's one of very few at Carlton that creates opportunities without having to get hold of the ball.
It seems to come naturally to him, taking out the right opponent at the right moment, taping the ball here or there without taking possession. At the moment the kids are not switched on to his tricks, which is why in the first few weeks we have only seen Wright and Daisy taking advantage of Lamb's work. Lamb working besides some experienced small forwards would be a real pleasure to watch because he would create goal scoring opportunities for them. Most people do not see it, most only see the bloke who kicked the pill last! But Lamb is providing chop outs which at the moment we do not take any advantage of!
I reckon Lamb will be a Grigg type for us in years to come, as long as we don't kibosh him before he gets the chance to develop his skills further and have them taken advantage of by somebody, hopefully!
Lamb is worth persisting with so long as Sicily will be playing against us for at least one game a year!
Its worth having him on the list for just that moment.
If it's niggling inside F50 I agree, he's one of very few at Carlton that creates opportunities without having to get hold of the ball.
It seems to come naturally to him, taking out the right opponent at the right moment, taping the ball here or there without taking possession. At the moment the kids are not switched on to his tricks, which is why in the first few weeks we have only seen Wright and Daisy taking advantage of Lamb's work. Lamb working besides some experienced small forwards would be a real pleasure to watch because he would create goal scoring opportunities for them. Most people do not see it, most only see the bloke who kicked the pill last! But Lamb is providing chop outs which at the moment we do not take any advantage of!
I reckon Lamb will be a Grigg type for us in years to come, as long as we don't kibosh him before he gets the chance to develop his skills further and have them taken advantage of by somebody, hopefully!
Yep good call.
Really loved his games against the Hawks and Sicily last year. As you said it comes naturally to him as he seems a pest, in the best way possible...for us!
I think the Hawks games was a bit of a turning point for him last year, and I like that he pushes into the midfield a bit also.
Teams are in, and it seems we haven't learned our lesson for the 3rd week in a row.
In: Kennedy, Kreuzer
Out: Byrne, OShea
Backline:
Jones - 199
Weitering - 195
Marchbank - 193
Plowman - 191
Mullett - 184
Simpson - 182
Pies forwardline...
Cox - 206
Reid - 195
Stephenson - 188
Hosking-Elliot - 186
Brown - 178
Thomas - 176
Not sure Weitering has a matchup. You could argue Reid, but i think Marchbank is better placed to take him, and we have nobody to take the midgets. :-\
Carlton
B Lachie Plowman, Liam Jones, Jacob Weitering
HB Kade Simpson, Caleb Marchbank, Aaron Mullett
C Ed Curnow, Patrick Cripps, Marc Murphy
HF Jarrod Garlett, Charlie Curnow, Cameron Polson
FF Matthew Wright, Levi Casboult, Sam Petrevski-Seton
Fol Matthew Kreuzer, Zac Fisher, Matthew Kennedy
I/C Paddy Dow, David Cuningham, Dale Thomas, Jed Lamb
Emg Sam Kerridge, Nick Graham, Jack Silvagni, Harry McKay
In Matthew Kreuzer, Matthew Kennedy
Collingwood
B Sam Murray, Lynden Dunn, Brayden Maynard
HB Tom Langdon, Matthew Scharenberg, Jeremy Howe
C Steele Sidebottom, Scott Pendlebury, Tom Phillips
HF Josh Thomas, Ben Reid, Will Hoskin-Elliott
F Jaidyn Stephenson, Mason Cox, Callum Brown
Fol Brodie Grundy, Adam Treloar, Taylor Adams
I/C Jack Crisp, Travis Varcoe, Ben Crocker, James Aish
Emg Alex Fasolo, Jarryd Blair, Chris Mayne, Brody Mihocek
Teams are in, and it seems we haven't learned our lesson for the 3rd week in a row.
In: Kennedy, Kreuzer
Out: Byrne, OShea
Backline:
Jones - 199
Weitering - 195
Marchbank - 193
Plowman - 191
Mullett - 184
Simpson - 182
Pies forwardline...
Cox - 206
Reid - 195
Stephenson - 188
Hosking-Elliot - 186
Brown - 178
Thomas - 176
Not sure Weitering has a matchup. You could argue Reid, but i think Marchbank is better placed to take him, and we have nobody to take the midgets. :-\
Reid is a strong mark and plays well against us, he needs a player in form to take him..
Tom Philips is a Pie who plays under the radar a bit...another 30 odd possies last week and needs a decent player on him.....
Thats an average forward line IMO..No Elliott, No Fasalo.....
Reid is a strong mark and plays well against us, he needs a player in form to take him..
Tom Philips is a Pie who plays under the radar a bit...another 30 odd possies last week and needs a decent player on him.....
Thats an average forward line IMO..No Elliott, No Fasalo.....
It is an average forward line, and we'll make them look a million bucks by not picking a backline to play it.
Significant doubt over Treloar
Carlton
B Lachie Plowman, Liam Jones, Jacob Weitering
HB Kade Simpson, Caleb Marchbank, Aaron Mullett
C Ed Curnow, Patrick Cripps, Marc Murphy
HF Jarrod Garlett, Charlie Curnow, Cameron Polson
FF Matthew Wright, Levi Casboult, Sam Petrevski-Seton
Fol Matthew Kreuzer, Zac Fisher, Matthew Kennedy
I/C Paddy Dow, David Cuningham, Dale Thomas, Jed Lamb
Emg Sam Kerridge, Nick Graham, Jack Silvagni, Harry McKay
In Matthew Kreuzer, Matthew Kennedy
I would have dropped Weitering and be done with it. He needs to do a fair bit to get his confidence back. He also needs a match-up. I can't see him getting confidence playing on Reid or Cox.
I wouldn't have played Polson: his form last week suggested he wasn't ready for a senior game yet. Similarly, I would have rested Dow and brought in Graham and Kerridge. They are battle hardened and we need that.
I would have dropped Weitering and be done with it. He needs to do a fair bit to get his confidence back. He also needs a match-up. I can't see him getting confidence playing on Reid or Cox.
I wouldn't have played Polson: his form last week suggested he wasn't ready for a senior game yet. Similarly, I would have rested Dow and brought in Graham and Kerridge. They are battle hardened and we need that.
Weitering is worth another go, but I also would have rested Dow and Polson.
I'd have Kerridge and Jack.S in.
If we play like we did against Ninthmond we are a reasonable chance.
The Filth played very well against GWS and based on this and how we played last week, we are no chance and will play them into form (god I hope I am wrong). I am still suspicious about Kreuzer, he is the key for us and that groin cant be right. They have named H as an emergency, surely he comes in if the Tractor doesn't come up this time. JW needed a spell IMO, the MC thinks other wise, hope they are right. 0-3 will not look good.
Weitering is worth another go, but I also would have rested Dow and Polson.
I'd have Kerridge and Jack.S in.
If we play like we did against Ninthmond we are a reasonable chance.
I would have had Polson out and JackS back in.....we need some scoring power and Silvagni's are good value vs Collingwood.
Did Kerridge play last week in the NB's prac game?
Seems like we are determined to press on with the youth emphasis and risk another loss. Not convinced Kreuz will play and if not Harry to come in. Good to see Kennedy return. I think we'll struggle to win this but hey, you never know.
I would have had Polson out and JackS back in.....we need some scoring power and Silvagni's are good value vs Collingwood.
Did Kerridge play last week in the NB's prac game?
Nope he was an emergency.
Frustrating as it is we’ve all complained about dropping kids after 1-2 weeks, does nothing for their confidence. I can say it now but glad poison and weitering r in.
Seems like we are determined to press on with the youth emphasis and risk another loss. Not convinced Kreuz will play and if not Harry to come in. Good to see Kennedy return. I think we'll struggle to win this but hey, you never know.
If Kreuzer does not play, we cannot win. I hope he is fit, though. I HATE playing half fit players. It can really hurt us.
The other thing I want us to be certain of is having the right match-ups. Last week we didn't. Injury was the reason, but ...
I think we'll win this one, Collingwood are very ordinary and they'll have themselves believing that they should have beaten GWS.
We're a much better side with Kreuzer in, Blues by 16.
So we lose 2 half back flankers and replace them with a ruckman and an inside mid!! A pretty damning admission on how badly balanced the team was last week.
The side looks better on paper but we have kicked 18 goals in our last 7 quarters since the fast start against Richmond. Our forward line is still a basket case so I'm not confident, but hopefully something will click into gear this week. Surely things have to improve from last week's dismal effort........
So we lose 2 half back flankers and replace them with a ruckman and an inside mid!! A pretty damning admission on how badly balanced the team was last week.
The side looks better on paper but we have kicked 18 goals in our last 7 quarters since the fast start against Richmond. Our forward line is still a basket case so I'm not confident, but hopefully something will click into gear this week. Surely things have to improve from last week's dismal effort........
Noting no kennedy or Kreuzer for 6 of those 7 quarters you mention.
Fix the midfield... the forward will then fix itself.
Nope he was an emergency.
Frustrating as it is we’ve all complained about dropping kids after 1-2 weeks, does nothing for their confidence. I can say it now but glad poison and weitering r in.
Polson needs to make an impression or sayonara you would think....
They might be prepping Poison for an alternative role eg back pocket but you'd think he would learn that role in the twos.
They are better than us. Classy and strong ruck division, stable and solid defense and better forwards regardless of the big yank. Can't see us getting near them. IF Treloar doesn't get up for the game gives us a better chance. IF Kreuz doesn't make it onto the ground FORGET it, we are done.
Still it is a Carl V Coll game so as history has shown anything can happen.
Will be my first attendance for the year. I'm hoping I'm the good luck charm :P
They are better than us. Classy and strong ruck division, stable and solid defense and better forwards regardless of the big yank. Can't see us getting near them. IF Treloar doesn't get up for the game gives us a better chance. IF Kreuz doesn't make it onto the ground FORGET it, we are done.
Still it is a Carl V Coll game so as history has shown anything can happen.
Will be my first attendance for the year. I'm hoping I'm the good luck charm :P
Yep, Kreuz will be key to us being in with a chance.
Classy and strong ruck division, stable and solid defense and better forwards regardless of the big yank.
you clearly haven't seen them play this year...
Filth fans complain Treloar has been doing a Crippa this season, winning crape loads of footy but giving it straight back 50% of the time with shizen disposal!
Not that we can claim the high ground on this issue! :(
Bit of a character test for our boys.
They've copped a fair bit this week...some players have been well and truly questioned.
How they respond will tell us a fair bit about what this season has to offer.
Bit of a character test for our boys.
They've copped a fair bit this week...some players have been well and truly questioned.
How they respond will tell us a fair bit about what this season has to offer.
With the Captain chief among them. When your Skipper is dishing off poor disposal it can certainly demoralise the rest... plus, when things are shizen you look to your primary leader to do or say something (or both) to correct the ship.
With the Captain chief among them. When your Skipper is dishing off poor disposal it can certainly demoralise the rest... plus, when things are shizen you look to your primary leader to do or say something (or both) to correct the ship.
Kreuzer's return will fix up most of that, even Jones run in the ruck in the dying minutes last week had a superficial positive impact.
Filth fans complain Treloar has been doing a Crippa this season, winning crape loads of footy but giving it straight back 50% of the time with shizen disposal!
Not that we can claim the high ground on this issue! :(
I'd love to see Lamb given a tagging type role on Treloar. I reckon he would be very vulnerable to a bit of frustration and may retaliate.
Could also run right over the top of Lamb and have a blinder, but I reckon it's worth a shot
Nope he was an emergency.
Frustrating as it is we’ve all complained about dropping kids after 1-2 weeks, does nothing for their confidence. I can say it now but glad poison and weitering r in.
Holy smoke. Freudian slip??? I hope that's not what's tainted our performance ;)
Holy smoke. Freudian slip??? I hope that's not what's tainted our performance ;)
I've never smoked
A Freudian Slip, are they anything like a Churchill? ;D
Is the above potentially the greatest marketing name ever for one of Bill Clinton's cigars!
Don’t ask me how I can form this view after watching such a poor performance last week but kreuzers influence is massive IMO and reckon if he is fit I think we should beat this mob.
They have a heap of outs Moore, Fosolo, Elliott, Wells, Degory and even Blair to name a few.
We beat them last year and while we have doc and Gibbs missing still think we are stronger then them this time around....if our disposal is decent this week we should get the points.
We might be lucky Shawny, the heat is on Bucks but the actual Collingwood team didn't do too bad last week. Bucks took most of the heat, the players could be full of complacency.
In comparison we were rubbish, nobody could possibly feel comfortable at Carlton this week.
I've never smoked A Freudian Slip, are they anything like a Churchill? ;D
Is the above potentially the greatest marketing name ever for one of Bill Clinton's cigars!
;) I'll leave that one with you LP.
Pies are clear favourites with the bookies
1.50 to 2.56
Both teams are taking injured players into this match, anything could happen!
Pies are clear favourites with the bookies
1.50 to 2.56
If that has some reflection on last game, they're incredibly generous odds for us.
Pies played well last week. Much to my disgust >:(
Ive put us to win by 5 points.
Not scared by the Pies, and the current flavour is as bad as any other.
Still, if Pendles is on song, hes enough to win the game.
If Cripps is on song though, LOOK OUT!
Ive put us to win by 5 points.
Not scared by the Pies, and the current flavour is as bad as any other.
Still, if Pendles is on swan, hes enough to win the game.
If Cripps is on song though, LOOK OUT!
I have us winning by 6 ^-^
The chance of me tipping correctly atm is 1:3 :-[
Go Blues
I have us winning by 6 ^-^
That would be 6 goals of course, not points! ;)
FMD, the broadcast is on 7mate in SD because the Comm Games are in HD on 70.
I'll have to sit 20m away from the TV just to ignore the blurred images!
FWIW, i have the blues by 1 point.
I don't think (hope) we can not be that bad again...especially against the old rival.
I also can't see Weitering being a witches hat for the third week in a row and although i think he is lacking a matchup tonight, he will put in a better performance...he has too...can't get much worse! Whether its enough to get him a game in week 4.....who knows, but i'm wishing him the best tonight.
FYI, no late changes tonight.
Very much a toss of the coin game for me. I say Pies by a goal or two.
Just fired up the Astor and settling in to watch the game. :)
Go Blues
All the best to the returning Matthews, young Weiters, and Polson
Oh and little BB