How 'over it' are you?

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How 'over it' are you?

October 20, 2013, 02:11:26 pm

Seems there's a bit of angst in the trade threads about our list and what we've done (or haven't done) during this trade period. I get the feeling that part of it is to do with our years of mediocrity and that we are seemingly headed for the Club's longest ever premiership drought. Times are getting desperate.

I know I'm not the only one on here sick to death of the hole our club finds itself in both on and off the field...the fact that we haven't played in a prelim since 2000, and the fact that for the last 14 years, the club and supporters have been hanging their hats on a preliminary final victory...such is all this club has achieved since the 1995 Grand Final victory.

It cannot be good for our brand that this is the case....a lot of us are lucky enough to remember our last premiership, but for others who are not, all they have as supporters are the relics of the past that get dug up each and every September when the Blues are nowhere near it and the club attempts to make itself relevant in the modern era. But we've been nowhere near it for so long that Carlton Football Club is now irrelevant to the likes of the competition's heavyweights such as Hawthorn, who has had more success than any other club over the last 50 years and continues to produce on the field so there isn't any need to dig up footage from their glory years of the 80s to remind people.

This isn't by any means one of those "I'm done with CFC" threads, I'll always support our club and take out a membership, but I cannot be the only member/supporter who feels pessimistic about our future as a club and getting back to the top. Many of the clubs such as Richmond and Essendon, even us often talk about getting back up top "where we belong"...and this I have a problem with. We were successful in the past but it does not guarantee success in the future.

I lived in hope like a lot of others in late 2007 when Judd came across from WCE that he'd become a Carlton premiership player...but remove the navy blue glasses and while kudos goes to the club for signing Judd, one player does not make a team. It has been a severe case of list mismanagement/imbalance over the years that has us braced for another lean period as a club as a lot of our better/older players hang up the boots. I find that some folks blaming the 2002 salary cap punishments for our current state is a huge cop out...our drafting and recruiting has been sub-standard when you compare with other clubs.

While I have given up on seeing another Carlton premiership in the foreseeable future (or ever again), I still support the club. I'm expecting to get caned for this but if you ask yourselves truthfully enough and deep down enough, you will probably agree. As a point of reference, if you watch a lot of games featuring the Hawks or Cats, or better yet, this year's prelim, you can gain a better understanding of how much work we have to do as a club.

And additionally, I'm sure I won't be the only one who over the years went from being patient, impatient, and eventually, and now, over it and ambivalent to what we do now as a club.

Go Blues.

PS - Thread title should be "Over it with Gozza".

Re: How 'over it' are you?

Reply #1 – October 20, 2013, 03:29:53 pm

I have grave fears for the future as well Gozza but I want to see how we have gone at the end of the trade and draft periods to get my own ideas clear about where we may actually stand.

At this stage I'm not feeling optimistic and I have little faith that our board and management have the vision and determination to steer us into better times. Dick Pratt's passing was a massive blow for us, and we are way behind the current heavyweights like the Hawks, Cats and Swans in our approach to pretty much all aspects of running a successful AFL club.

I am far from confident currently about winning a flag in the foreseeable future, especially with the careers of Judd, Scotto, Waite, Carrazzo etc. all looming and the lack of promise we saw with the NBs last year.

The key to the future of course lies in us having the right people on our board and the right people running the operation of the club. It appears that we have a lot to do to improve to the required levels in both those areas, but we'll know more about just how good they are this time next year, when their initiatives, especially the appointment of MM should be bearing fruit.

I see the appointment of MM as a positive and as key to turning things around for us. I'm keenly awaiting to see what he can achieve next year by both improving the existing/retained players and by the injection of some new talent. Hopefully we may be in for some pleasant surprises.

Personally I will continue to support the Blueboys out of a long standing love of the club and the jumper and I will certainly continue to attend games as an important part of my social life, but I have realistic expectations these days. I used to see the start of a new season as a new flag opportunity - now if we could just move a few places up the ladder it would be good!

Re: How 'over it' are you?

Reply #2 – October 20, 2013, 04:21:33 pm

Reality is, Premierships are just so much harder to come by than they were 20-30 years ago.
The AFL has evened up the competition introduced salary cap e.t.c. The Alpha male of the competition Carlton is no longer able to flex its substantial muscle and buy its way to a flag.

Sadly we are just one of the pack now and with an ageing list and an abysmal record of developing young talent we seem as far away from a premiership as ever. Dont be fooled by the sixth placed finish or the finals win over our perennial bitches Richmond. We desperately need break out seasons from Watson, Menzel, Graham, Yarran, Casboult, Buckley, Bootsma. These are the guys that will springboard us to success. we Know what the others offer. Sadly its hard to identify our next superstar from that group.

Re: How 'over it' are you?

Reply #3 – October 20, 2013, 04:54:31 pm

3 valuable contributions. Bravo, GozzMan, for a timely assessment of our club - steeped in reality.

And that reality now sees the Dawks, Bumbers, Tiggers, Pussy Cats and probably the Kangabies of the Melbourne based clubs... ahead of us. Then you throw in the Fluffy Ducks, Powerless, D1ckers of the interstate clubs and we really are falling off the pace.

Like the GozzMan and Fluffy Biscuit, I will get my Membership to CFC and NBs next year, but rather than parting with the hard-earned happily and optimistically, not this time. Reality is setting in. I have lost faith in the Board; have no faith in trade negotiators; recruiters; development, am losing faith in Swanny - though, thanks to him at least our off-field finances are apparently in good shape... which he has managed to create during his tenure.

We've a very strong (and over influential) marketing / PR group who really are doing a terrific job at milking every last bit of credibility out of our brand.

I am hanging on to the belief that a 60 year old bloke who looks to have more passion for success than anyone around him AND with the willingness to ruthlessly carry out what must happen to be successful... is our last hope. Funny thing is that MM has only been at the place 5 minutes but seems to hurt more at our lack of success than many others.

To be honest next year looms as a make-or-break for many careers at Princes Park. Many careers.

Re: How 'over it' are you?

Reply #4 – October 20, 2013, 05:13:20 pm

Having grown up in an era when you knew that we would always have a few extra games in the dark at Albert Park and wearing my Carlton jumper to school guaranteed at least one fight a day, I may be little more patient with our current premiership drought.

Of course, it is a different era and it takes planning, resources, hard work, good decision making and more than your share of luck to make the top 4, let alone a GF.

We are on an upward trend, even if that trend was slowed by injuries in 2012 and the appointment of a new coach in 2013. Hopefully, the coach and the playing group have made their adjustments and we'll perform up to expectations in 2014.

The only real concern I have with the club is the lack of focus on development. Without dedicated development coaches and a plan for ensuring our VFL players are AFL ready, we can't cover injuries or expect a sustained period at the top of the ladder.

Re: How 'over it' are you?

Reply #5 – October 20, 2013, 05:54:43 pm

It could be an age thing and the ability look at things over a longer term.... but I just don't get the pessimism.

We were tracking quite well until an injury riddled 2012.
We were improving every year.
This year we also had our share of injuries but the main factor was the players adjusting to a new coach.
We finished the regular season exactly where I thought we would.
I expect us to finish 4-6 at the end of the H& A season next year and be thereabouts (top 4) in the years following.
We're probably a KPP away from being a genuine contender for a flag.

Re: How 'over it' are you?

Reply #6 – October 20, 2013, 06:37:32 pm

That's the problem though Lodsie... We are still at least I kp short, and ideally we'd like 2.

Re: How 'over it' are you?

Reply #7 – October 20, 2013, 07:01:07 pm

Comes back to very poor recruiting. KPPs do not grow on trees, in fact, I'd say they're as hard to get now as they've ever been. Club has had ample opportunity to sort this out over the last few years.

Re: How 'over it' are you?

Reply #8 – October 20, 2013, 07:12:06 pm

Quote from: Gozza on October 20, 2013, 07:01:07 pm

Comes back to very poor recruiting. KPPs do not grow on trees, in fact, I'd say they're as hard to get now as they've ever been. Club has had ample opportunity to sort this out over the last few years.

If KPPs don't grow on trees Gozza, how has the club had ample opportunity to sort this out?

I reckon the club has been pretty innovative in trying to solve the KPP issue but their plans haven't quite worked out yet. If one of Watson, Rowe and Casboult comes good in 2014, and the others are there about, we'll be flying.

Of course, that will lead to calls to trade them out to bring in some hack who wants to come back to Victoria

Re: How 'over it' are you?

Reply #9 – October 20, 2013, 07:17:46 pm

Quote from: DJC on October 20, 2013, 07:12:06 pm

Quote from: Gozza on October 20, 2013, 07:01:07 pm
Comes back to very poor recruiting. KPPs do not grow on trees, in fact, I'd say they're as hard to get now as they've ever been. Club has had ample opportunity to sort this out over the last few years.

If KPPs don't grow on trees Gozza, how has the club had ample opportunity to sort this out?

I reckon the club has been pretty innovative in trying to solve the KPP issue but their plans haven't quite worked out yet. If one of Watson, Rowe and Casboult comes good in 2014, and the others are there about, we'll be flying.

Of course, that will lead to calls to trade them out to bring in some hack who wants to come back to Victoria

Over years of drafting, there has been opportunities to take a KPP but the club has opted for smaller types. Darling, and Tahlia come to mind. You don't get too many opportunities to take KPPs as you do with midfielders and flankers. Any chance you get to pick up a KPP you must take it. One year the club took Lucas instead of taller options for example. Inherently stupid comes to mind.

Granted Rowe has been unwell, Watson still seems young and Casboult needs to fix his kicking...but I grow envious of a club like the Bombers for example who sh1t all over us with their talls.

Re: How 'over it' are you?

Reply #10 – October 20, 2013, 07:36:15 pm

Quote from: Baggers on October 20, 2013, 04:54:31 pm

3 valuable contributions. Bravo, GozzMan, for a timely assessment of our club - steeped in reality.

And that reality now sees the Dawks, Bumbers, Tiggers, Pussy Cats and probably the Kangabies of the Melbourne based clubs... ahead of us. Then you throw in the Fluffy Ducks, Powerless, D1ckers of the interstate clubs and we really are falling off the pace.

With all due respect Baggers, seriously mate how the fark can you say Kanganothings, Tiggers and Dees are ahead of us. Last time I checked, we finished ahead of all of them on the ladder this year. We pantsed the all hype no substance Tiggers in a final (whether we deserved to be there or not we were). The Dees are crap trucks, Roos has a monumental task, we will see how good a coach he really is. Kangas are the October November Premiers every year, puuuuurlease!

Re: How 'over it' are you?

Reply #11 – October 20, 2013, 10:36:23 pm

Quote from: Gointocarlton on October 20, 2013, 07:36:15 pm

Quote from: Baggers on October 20, 2013, 04:54:31 pm
3 valuable contributions. Bravo, GozzMan, for a timely assessment of our club - steeped in reality.

And that reality now sees the Dawks, Bumbers, Tiggers, Pussy Cats and probably the Kangabies of the Melbourne based clubs... ahead of us. Then you throw in the Fluffy Ducks, Powerless, D1ckers of the interstate clubs and we really are falling off the pace.

With all due respect Baggers, seriously mate how the fark can you say Kanganothings, Tiggers and Dees are ahead of us. Last time I checked, we finished ahead of all of them on the ladder this year. We pantsed the all hype no substance Tiggers in a final (whether we deserved to be there or not we were). The Dees are crap trucks, Roos has a monumental task, we will see how good a coach he really is. Kangas are the October November Premiers every year, puuuuurlease!

Mate... reality is that without the Bumbers this year, we would no have participated in the finals. The Tiggers finished 5th. And we finished 9th. Dont know where you get the Dees stuff from?

? We beat the Kangabies by a pt to make the finals.... reckon they'd have smacked the Tiggers big time.

We got a leg up this year (thank you, Bumbers). It won't happen next year.

Re: How 'over it' are you?

Reply #12 – October 20, 2013, 10:51:07 pm

Quote from: Baggers on October 20, 2013, 10:36:23 pm

Quote from: Gointocarlton on October 20, 2013, 07:36:15 pm
Quote from: Baggers on October 20, 2013, 04:54:31 pm
3 valuable contributions. Bravo, GozzMan, for a timely assessment of our club - steeped in reality.

And that reality now sees the Dawks, Bumbers, Tiggers, Pussy Cats and probably the Kangabies of the Melbourne based clubs... ahead of us. Then you throw in the Fluffy Ducks, Powerless, D1ckers of the interstate clubs and we really are falling off the pace.

With all due respect Baggers, seriously mate how the fark can you say Kanganothings, Tiggers and Dees are ahead of us. Last time I checked, we finished ahead of all of them on the ladder this year. We pantsed the all hype no substance Tiggers in a final (whether we deserved to be there or not we were). The Dees are crap trucks, Roos has a monumental task, we will see how good a coach he really is. Kangas are the October November Premiers every year, puuuuurlease!

Mate... reality is that without the Bumbers this year, we would no have participated in the finals. The Tiggers finished 5th. And we finished 9th. Dont know where you get the Dees stuff from?? We beat the Kangabies by a pt to make the finals.... reckon they'd have smacked the Tiggers big time.

We got a leg up this year (thank you, Bumbers). It won't happen next year.

Apologies, misread your post, I read you were suggesting Melb had also passed us, it was a mistake on my part. I still reckon Norf have a long way to go. Dont rate their coach. As for the Tiggers, I dont think they are much chop.

Re: How 'over it' are you?

Reply #13 – October 20, 2013, 11:11:28 pm

Making the finals and beating the Tigers masked a lot of our problems. The next week we were brought back down to earth with a resounding 'thud' by the Swans. The end margin flattered us...we were nowhere near it that night.

Without Essendon's plight this year then 2013 would read almost the same as 2012. Though even 2012 was more promising with exciting footy played in the opening three rounds. I'm not sure we've played that well at all since.

We have gone backwards very quickly, and anyone who thinks that we can turn it around with Judd, Scotland, Waite, Simpson, Carrazzo all ageing or nearing the end is dead-set deluded.

As it stands we have one of the oldest lists in the competition, and have achieved fark all. Very different from say, the Brisbane Lions of early last decade...the 2004 Grand Final side they fielded was the oldest in history, though they had won 3 flags as it was.

You have a very short memory if you don't remember when the likes of Silvagni, Bradley, Brown, Rice, Sexton, McKay, Hickmott, Ratten etc all gave it away within that two or three year block and the toll it took. Granted our list is in better shape than it was then, though that still does not fill me with a lot of confidence.

At present we have a few foot soldiers in our side who are honest footballers but would not get a look in at any side fair dinkum about winning the flag. And additionally, a lot of them would not be able to fill the void of any of our ageing stars. I made this comment through the year when Waite booted 7 goals against the Bombers - you know you're in big trouble list-wise if Waite is kicking bags of goals.

Hopefully our next rebuild has us doing things sensibly. Draft for the spine then build around it, not the other way around. This can only start off the field...get the right personnel in for starters and build from there.

It is such a travesty that our club celebrates its 150th birthday next season, yet will probably finish outside the eight and continue to struggle off the field. In a way it is hard to believe a club once as great as ours could find itself in such dire shape these days...though on the other hand it is not surprising at all.

What happened to playing most of our home games at the G? Wasn't it once 50,000 members was achieved then the club would work on it? I haven't heard about anything being done. That's not to say they're not working towards it, although if they were working towards it, I think the members, or 'investors' should be among the first to know.

So much needs to be fixed and day by day we are falling well behind. Happy 150th, Carlton.

Re: How 'over it' are you?

Reply #14 – October 20, 2013, 11:23:38 pm

Quote from: Gozza on October 20, 2013, 11:11:28 pm

Making the finals and beating the Tigers masked a lot of our problems. The next week we were brought back down to earth with a resounding 'thud' by the Swans. The end margin flattered us...we were nowhere near it that night.

Without Essendon's plight this year then 2013 would read almost the same as 2012. Though even 2012 was more promising with exciting footy played in the opening three rounds. I'm not sure we've played that well at all since.

We have gone backwards very quickly, and anyone who thinks that we can turn it around with Judd, Scotland, Waite, Simpson, Carrazzo all ageing or nearing the end is dead-set deluded.

As it stands we have one of the oldest lists in the competition, and have achieved fark all. Very different from say, the Brisbane Lions of early last decade...the 2004 Grand Final side they fielded was the oldest in history, though they had won 3 flags as it was.

You have a very short memory if you don't remember when the likes of Silvagni, Bradley, Brown, Rice, Sexton, McKay, Hickmott, Ratten etc all gave it away within that two or three year block and the toll it took. Granted our list is in better shape than it was then, though that still does not fill me with a lot of confidence.

At present we have a few foot soldiers in our side who are honest footballers but would not get a look in at any side fair dinkum about winning the flag. And additionally, a lot of them would not be able to fill the void of any of our ageing stars. I made this comment through the year when Waite booted 7 goals against the Bombers - you know you're in big trouble list-wise if Waite is kicking bags of goals.

Hopefully our next rebuild has us doing things sensibly. Draft for the spine then build around it, not the other way around. This can only start off the field...get the right personnel in for starters and build from there.

It is such a travesty that our club celebrates its 150th birthday next season, yet will probably finish outside the eight and continue to struggle off the field. In a way it is hard to believe a club once as great as ours could find itself in such dire shape these days...though on the other hand it is not surprising at all.

What happened to playing most of our home games at the G? Wasn't it once 50,000 members was achieved then the club would work on it? I haven't heard about anything being done. That's not to say they're not working towards it, although if they were working towards it, I think the members, or 'investors' should be among the first to know.

So much needs to be fixed and day by day we are falling well behind. Happy 150th, Carlton.

Tired and ready to hit the farter, but I do hope no-one trivialises your post. You summarise where we are at ...at this minute, broadly and accurately.