The burning question: do we deserve to be there?
Moved
The burning question: do we deserve to be there?
No.
We just beat lowly sides. Cant match it with top sides and have a perennial lack of durability. Not there yet.
Brisbane have form for blowing big leads. I wouldn't take too much from that last quarter.
Brisbane have form for blowing big leads. I wouldn't take too much from that last quarter.
Sure, but a Geel, Rich, Coll would have made them pay.
No.
We just beat lowly sides. Cant match it with top sides and have a perennial lack of durability. Not there yet.
Agree....its a long season and we need our full compliment offrontline troops in to compete even vs the bottom teams, we dont have the depth and its something for the list management team to work on. Players like Martin are now just passengers burning a hole in our salary cap and we have to bring in more robust competitive types who can play a near full season and not miss a third of the games every year.
Sure, but a Geel, Rich, Coll would have made them pay.
Yes no doubt.
Brisbane have form for blowing big leads. I wouldn't take too much from that last quarter.
Agree...just junk time for me and the Lions just coasted until they had to kick a few late to put us out of our misery.
Roller coaster game.
Roller coaster season.
We have a situation where we have key players
-out injured e.g. Hewett, Kennedy
-buggered from carrying extra loads e.g Silvagni, Doc, Young, TDK
-struggling to regain form after returning from injury e.g. Weitering, Pittonet, Marchbank
Add to that some extra tactics and attention to counter prime movers like Saad and Doc have come into play.
Getting continuity and cohesion in that situation is a difficult task.
The only surprising thing is ....that folks are surprised.
No.
We just beat lowly sides. Cant match it with top sides and have a perennial lack of durability. Not there yet.
We beat Sydney and Fremantle this year.
Can't say we've only beaten crap sides
We beat Sydney and Fremantle this year.
Can't say we've only beaten crap sides
We need to beat 1 more good side to have any credibility this season.
Roller coaster game.
Roller coaster season.
We have a situation where we have key players
-out injured e.g. Hewett, Kennedy
-buggered from carrying extra loads e.g Silvagni, Doc, Young TDK
-struggling to regain form after returning from injury e.g. Weitering, Pittonet, Marchbank
Add to that some extra tactics and attention to counter prime movers like Saad and Doc have come into play.
Getting continuity and cohesion in that situation is a difficult task.
The only surprising thing is ....that folks are surprised.
Good summary.
GiC myself and a few others aren't surprised. I'd add the impact of all the changes to your list. Building stumps to CEO, Coahes, game plan and everything in between. Very little comes naturally in these scenarios because it's still being taught/learned and integrated. Subsequently, we face a challenge that’s beyond us. Demands outweigh resources unfortunately.
We beat Sydney and Fremantle this year.
Can't say we've only beaten crap sides
Travelling is an area we need to improve in, the good interstate teams are much harder at home and to be a successful team we need to start winning more on the road.
We need to beat 1 more good side to have any credibility this season.
Well we have 2 more chances.
We beat Sydney and Fremantle this year.
Can't say we've only beaten crap sides
We also lost to Freo. Swans was a good win.
We need to beat 1 more good side to have any credibility this season.
Can't agree. We have pushed a lot of teams this season but have only been smashed today and last week and this looks more like an above the shoulders issue than anything else.
Even against the pies we almost got them in the end and that was after losing weitering in the first quarter.
Beat Richmond and Bulldogs - lost to Collingwood by 4 points with Weitering going off in first quarter.
Think the last 6 weeks we have been average and teams have figured us out....dry up Saad so we dont have the rebound, and with Hewett and Kennedy out we have seen teams being able to tag our other mids and its obvious some players are copping more physical attention from the opposition and getting very hard tackles and treatment off the ball and our ace midfield which is our strength has been cut back to size and we are struggling.
The ruck situation also needs discussing and we need to go back to Pittonet as No 1 ruck just to get at least a break even result in the middle to help our mids. I think Krud suggested this last week or even before and it was shown up again today with TDK and Jack who have been brave but they look cooked vs the bigger bodied rucks and need a rest.
Gawn and Jackson then Cameron, Cox and Grundy is going to be a tough challenge without Pittonet playing......
Our last qtr seemed to have 2 major contributors - BrisVegas took their foot off the pedal, and we played with more freedom, risk and offensive flair.
Too many passengers, in particular bringing a 'safe', conservative attitude into the game (appeared so). When we played with risk, boldness and flair earlier in the season the boys responded.
However, same old same old, this group folds under expectation and challenging heat. Above the shoulders stuff. Not soft, just not courageous/disciplined (confident?) enough to back ourselves and each other.
We must embrace a courageous boldness against the Ds. And be backing ourselves to win, not minimize the opponent. We don't yet seem to think and act like winners.
As mentioned previously, I was concerned by the recent narrative from the club talking of being in an excellent position and having done so well this year. Too much reflection, not enough statements relating to seeking wins. Not enough explanation as to why our form since 8-2 has been mediocre. Not enough acknowledgement of p1ss poor performance against Crowmunchers... followed by explanation and strategy to ensure it never happens again.
Given up on 2022? No way. But gotta play without fear. Even a nothing to lose attitude.
Doubt we'll have Crippa for a week or two (dumb hit) and hopefully Kennedy can return. Dow and Setterfield cannot be relied upon... bit tired of saying that. They're just not hard enough. Kemp, Stocker and Hayes are all hard nuts who'll have a crack.
The time for reflection on past good efforts is over. Time to focus bald boldness and smart aggression. Go after the Ds.
Stay the course - no reason for wholesale changes given everything thrown at the playing group.
We still have a great chance to play finals and I think we will. Bulldogs are chokers and don't be surprised if they drop the Hawks game in Tasmania. They are really our only threat to take our spot.
Hayes needs to come in and play midfield and possibly Stocker as well.
McInerney gave a masterclass in ruck work today and gave the Brisbane mids an armchair ride. Poor TDK was put to the sword.
Even in the unlikely event we ever get our top 22 on the field injury free, I don't see us being a threat to win the flag until we get a ruckman who can give our mids first use of the ball.
To me, Pittonet just doesn't have the ability to carry out that role and neither does TDK.
Agree...just junk time for me and the Lions just coasted until they had to kick a few late to put us out of our misery.
Yes agree. Not sure Voss would spend any time at all reviewing that last q. There's plenty in the first 3 to occupy his time. The boys have been off for a while. The last few weeks had me suspecting the ending to the season would not be great. I doubt the Dees or Pies will be fearing us too much at the moment.
After Weeters got hurt the injury dam broke.
The Vossmeister was a little hoarse in the post match media interview. Did a bit of shouting?
Covers for the players somewhat... which you would expect. Like that. But he was clearly not impressed with the first 3 qtrs. There'll be some interesting chats/home truths behind closed doors but he doesn't strike me as the kind of bloke who would throw out the baby with the bathwater. Expect him to remain focussed and determined, now for his chargers to do the same. I reckon the blokes will show more, a lot more, next Saturday night. Looking forward to it.
A little surprising to hear a Carlton coach trying to shape the narrative around the Cripps incident to work in our favour.
Our top tier are very good and the foundations are their for this list but until we improve the bottom six that run out most weeks we will be a mid table team at best.
Seeing Dow finally get his chance today and then proceed to butcher the ball time and time again and the watch the opposition stroll past him within 5 metres of where he is standing and they kick an easy goal off his fking turnover!!!!
Like Setterfield both have had enough time and for whatever reason this is either as good as these blokes are going to get or it’s as good as we can get out of them at our club. Either way it’s time to cut out loses and move them on.
Martin is another one. How long do we allow him to take up a list spot. Pies got 3 decent players in the mid season draft that are contributing - we have to get smarter with the types we recruit and now we are closer then in a long time of finally being there in September we can’t waste any more time on blokes like this.
We don’t need any more big name recruits just 4-5 reliable hard working honest footballers to swap for blokes that we have seen all seen enough of.
The Vossmeister was a little hoarse in the post match media interview. Did a bit of shouting?
Covers for the players somewhat... which you would expect. Like that. But he was clearly not impressed with the first 3 qtrs. There'll be some interesting chats/home truths behind closed doors but he doesn't strike me as the kind of bloke who would throw out the baby with the bathwater. Expect him to remain focussed and determined, now for his chargers to do the same. I reckon the blokes will show more, a lot more, next Saturday night. Looking forward to it.
Also worth noting that Pittonet was sick early in the week which is why he was 'managed'.
Should be available for selection this week.
I wonder if there was some kind of bug going through the club this week....would explain the sub-par energy levels early on.
Our top tier are very good and the foundations are their for this list but until we improve the bottom six that run out most weeks we will be a mid table team at best.
Seeing Dow finally get his chance today and then proceed to butcher the ball time and time again and the watch the opposition stroll past him within 5 metres of where he is standing and they kick an easy goal off his fking turnover!!!!
Like Setterfield both have had enough time and for whatever reason this is either as good as these blokes are going to get or it’s as good as we can get out of them at our club. Either way it’s time to cut out loses and move them on.
Martin is another one. How long do we allow him to take up a list spot. Pies got 3 decent players in the mid season draft that are contributing - we have to get smarter with the types we recruit and now we are closer then in a long time of finally being there in September we can’t waste any more time on blokes like this.
We don’t need any more big name recruits just 4-5 reliable hard working honest footballers to swap for blokes that we have seen all seen enough of.
I called for Newnes in this week for that very reason.
Too many passengers of late. Just need someone who you know can be relied upon to put in, chase and tackle.....and kick the odd goal.
I've tooted his horn for a while now and i think we need a few others like him.
Ideally, they never have to play, but when injuries hit, you know what you'll get from him. On the other hand, you never know what you'll get from Martin, Dow, Setterfield etc in similar situations.
A little surprising to hear a Carlton coach trying to shape the narrative around the Cripps incident to work in our favour.
Well he has to because The Big House wants us out of the 8 so they will want him to get 2-3 wks.
Well he has to because The Big House wants us out of the 8 so they will want him to get 2-3 wks.
I would have thought Carlton in the finals would be good for the AFL's bottom line ?
At any rate, I guess what I was trying to say is that such behavior is unusual for Carlton coaches, and more like Chris Scott et al.
Well he has to because The Big House wants us out of the 8 so they will want him to get 2-3 wks.
Reckon the big house would love all of Collingwood, Richmond and Carlton in the finals.
A little surprising to hear a Carlton coach trying to shape the narrative around the Cripps incident to work in our favour.
I like it. He's astutely following the best role models in this era. Mr Dimma and Mr Pudding face 😉
I would have thought Carlton in the finals would be good for the AFL's bottom line ?
At any rate, I guess what I was trying to say is that such behavior is unusual for Carlton coaches, and more like Chris Scott et al.
I was being sarcastic Pauly, of course Carlton is good for the AFL's bottom line. Yes its refreshing to see our coach go in to bat for our players, probably futile, but refreshing.
I like it. He's astutely following the best role models in this era. Mr Dimma and Mr Pudding face 😉
I liked it too. Front foot, calling it as he sees it.
First time this year that we've had more than 100 points kicked against us.
Kept notes today on who turned ball over or fumbled and my pen nearly ran out.. Qtr 1 - Fisher, Owies, Cottrell, Setterfield, Newnes all missed goals or kicks - some resulting in goals. 2nd Q Dow, Owies set shot, Setterfield, Mackay from 50 passes to TDK who wasn't ready and punched - why wouldn't he kick the goal. 3rd Cripps set shot and pass to Walsh missed coast to coast Bris goal, Dow missed goal, Cerra, Silvagni dropped chest mark coast to coast. Game cooked
Point of all this for me - far too many c graders. Far too many who cant or wont improve foot skills. Cripps - love him but 50 50 by foot and has never improved in this area. Had to kick that goal to start 3rd and had to hit Walsh. They had finishers. For me foot skills was the key thing. We have for years been a confidence based team. Good kicking breeds confidence. Fisher kicks that goal first 20 sec confidence builds....didn't have another shot for ages after that.
Been mentioned but TDK in last 3 and a half minutes got monstered. Destroyed in the ruck and we couldn't touch it. And my goodness mr fitness role really needs to be assessed - for me time for a change there. Has not got results for me and we cut coaches so what's difference. If Martin is played again that's it I'll spew up. Cant survive a game. Why play him. Miss 8 will have ramifications given where we were...huge fail if happens
Kept notes today on who turned ball over or fumbled and my pen nearly ran out.. Qtr 1 - Fisher, Owies, Cottrell, Setterfield, Newnes all missed goals or kicks - some resulting in goals. 2nd Q Dow, Owies set shot, Setterfield, Mackay from 50 passes to TDK who wasn't ready and punched - why wouldn't he kick the goal. 3rd Cripps set shot and pass to Walsh missed coast to coast Bris goal, Dow missed goal, Cerra, Silvagni dropped chest mark coast to coast. Game cooked
Point of all this for me - far too many c graders. Far too many who cant or wont improve foot skills. Cripps - love him but 50 50 by foot and has never improved in this area. Had to kick that goal to start 3rd and had to hit Walsh. They had finishers. For me foot skills was the key thing. We have for years been a confidence based team. Good kicking breeds confidence. Fisher kicks that goal first 20 sec confidence builds....didn't have another shot for ages after that.
Been mentioned but TDK in last 3 and a half minutes got monstered. Destroyed in the ruck and we couldn't touch it. And my goodness mr fitness role really needs to be assessed - for me time for a change there. Has not got results for me and we cut coaches so what's difference. If Martin is played again that's it I'll spew up. Cant survive a game. Why play him. Miss 8 will have ramifications given where we were...huge fail if happens
Fair points but we couldnt miss a target or goal before the mid season break. Apart from the obvious injury tol, what's happened? Fatigue of a long season playing above ourselves maybe?
Re Martin 100% agree.
And my goodness mr fitness role really needs to be assessed - for me time for a change there. Has not got results for me and we cut coaches so what's difference.
Andrew Russell has been there since 2018.
I didn’t take notes but I noticed that, if the ball was turned over to our advantage, Brisbane players would sprint back in formation to fill any gaps. By “in formation”, I mean 3 or 4 players in a line across the field, similar to the way rugby league teams line up.
You need superior aerobic capacity to do this which is maybe why they tired in the last.
I’m suspicious that Russell brought all his text books and charts and s/sheets across with him and, when our players reached some arbitrary ‘level’ of fitness, he picked up his bonus.
I’m not blaming Russell for our injuries but, for a high performance fitness guru, I’m not impressed.
Fair points but we couldnt miss a target or goal before the mid season break. Apart from the obvious injury tol, what's happened? Fatigue of a long season playing above ourselves maybe?
Re Martin 100% agree.
Yep
The guys that have played most of the season are buggered. The injured are taking a time to get back into it.
Pressure has a lot to do with the accuracy of disposals.
At near full strength we can absorb a lot of that pressure and players look a million dollars.
The workload is shared....targets are hit.
Now we're just a bit shattered, and it's reflected in our accuracy.
Speaking of sprinting.....did anyone see Setterfield sprint.....at least in the 2nd half.
I can't remember him getting out of a jog the whole time. Whether it was to guard space/an oppenent, attack the ball, chase a player with the ball.
Closest i saw was to run backwards to get a cheap kick from the backline....which he almost stuffed up the kick.
I get the laconic style, Hoops Houlihan was similar, but when you need to go, you go....he just doesn't go.
Watching on the telly I like to imagine getting inside the players heads and willing them to the contest.
It's a way to judge whether you think they're going hard enough (not necessarily an ability I'd possess myself, in real life ;D .)
When I've willed some of them to the contest the last couple of weeks....they just haven't gone with me. :(
I didn’t find a tv until the last Q but a “chase” by Dow on the wing early on was simply disgraceful.
I didn’t see him again after that, if he was actually benched after that it would also explain a couple of those late Brizvegas goals, fatigue…
Agree on Martin. +Williams and McGovern. All need to go. Each earning 750K I think.
Well that was painful... watching the game again.
It was as if their heads and hearts weren't in the game from the get-go. Seemed self-limiting, almost afraid of risk. A few blokes on the backline were the exception, along with Charlie up forward from scant opportunities.
Obviously the issues of the week previous were not thoroughly acknowledged/understood and/or successfully addressed.
Kept notes today on who turned ball over or fumbled and my pen nearly ran out.. Qtr 1 - Fisher, Owies, Cottrell, Setterfield, Newnes all missed goals or kicks - some resulting in goals. 2nd Q Dow, Owies set shot, Setterfield, Mackay from 50 passes to TDK who wasn't ready and punched - why wouldn't he kick the goal. 3rd Cripps set shot and pass to Walsh missed coast to coast Bris goal, Dow missed goal, Cerra, Silvagni dropped chest mark coast to coast. Game cooked
Point of all this for me - far too many c graders. Far too many who cant or wont improve foot skills. Cripps - love him but 50 50 by foot and has never improved in this area. Had to kick that goal to start 3rd and had to hit Walsh. They had finishers. For me foot skills was the key thing. We have for years been a confidence based team. Good kicking breeds confidence. Fisher kicks that goal first 20 sec confidence builds....didn't have another shot for ages after that.
Been mentioned but TDK in last 3 and a half minutes got monstered. Destroyed in the ruck and we couldn't touch it. And my goodness mr fitness role really needs to be assessed - for me time for a change there. Has not got results for me and we cut coaches so what's difference. If Martin is played again that's it I'll spew up. Cant survive a game. Why play him. Miss 8 will have ramifications given where we were...huge fail if happens
So much above the shoulders. Players just don't lose their skills, but they can lose confidence.
Fair points but we couldnt miss a target or goal before the mid season break. Apart from the obvious injury tol, what's happened? Fatigue of a long season playing above ourselves maybe?
Re Martin 100% agree.
And this is the point, GTC. Spot on, Cocko.
How come such a change in attitude, approach, confidence since the bye? Tired? Unsure? Confused?
Can't blame injuries as we had plenty of those early in the year yet achieved 8-2.
As the year has progressed we've gotten progressively worse... in total contradiction to what we were told early in the year. Weight of expectation? Fear of success? Too many non-hackers (blokes who won't put their bodies in, back themselves/team mates)?
And this is the point, GTC. Spot on, Cocko.
How come such a change in attitude, approach, confidence since the bye? Tired? Unsure? Confused?
Can't blame injuries as we had plenty of those early in the year yet achieved 8-2.
As the year has progressed we've gotten progressively worse... in total contradiction to what we were told early in the year. Weight of expectation? Fear of success? Too many non-hackers (blokes who won't put their bodies in, back themselves/team mates)?
The thing with the injuries is that they have a cumulative effect.
Players are asked to lift to cover them, and they can do it for a while, but as the season drags on that becomes harder and takes it's toll.
We have a few players who desperatley need 'managing' (either on or off field) but as we accumulate more injuries we don't have that luxury.
We also assume that as injured players return they'll slot striaght back in as good as they were when they left.
The majority just don't.
The thing with the injuries is that they have a cumulative effect.
Players are asked to lift to cover them, and they can do it for a while, but as the season drags on that becomes harder and takes it's toll.
We have a few players who desperatley need 'managing' (either on or off field) but as we accumulate more injuries we don't have that luxury.
We also assume that as injured players return they'll slot striaght back in as good as they were when they left.
The majority just don't.
Fair post Lods. I'm also wondering if this is a year of learning, not just for the players, but for Voss as well. If you listen to his pressers regularly, his focus on contest is beyond any coach I've ever heard. The whole "contest" thing is ubiquitous among coaches, almost to the point that it justifies its own meme. But with Voss it seems at a whole other level. I'm just speculating, but I wonder if he has no Plan B (another footy cliche) and that his belief that you will struggle if you don't win the contest (or break even) seems to be rubbing off on the players ? Our transition game from D50 is not great, and it's been noted so often that it will lose the contest we look pretty ordinary. Just some random musings on my part.
David King highlighted the Blues are 10-1 this year when they’ve won the clearance count by at least +5 but 3-6 when that count has been +4 or less.
David King highlighted the Blues are 10-1 this year when they’ve won the clearance count by at least +5 but 3-6 when that count has been +4 or less.
He's right over the past fortnight our midfield has been substantially weaker and Walsh trying to do too much and too demanding - not his fault just doesn't trust the players with him in the midfield past couple of weeks. Even looked weak in the midfield when Cerra was missing against Richmond round 14 and when he returned round 16 against the Saints he was short of match fitness - lost both games. Missing both Hewett and Kennedy in the midfield is hurting the team structurally in their clearance work. Need to build depth in this area.
The thing with the injuries is that they have a cumulative effect.
Players are asked to lift to cover them, and they can do it for a while, but as the season drags on that becomes harder and takes it's toll.
We have a few players who desperatley need 'managing' (either on or off field) but as we accumulate more injuries we don't have that luxury.
We also assume that as injured players return they'll slot striaght back in as good as they were when they left.
The majority just don't.
Pretty sure that is a strong part of the issue, but you see even regulars who've been relatively injury free also lose their way, their focus. Likely not an either/or scenario but a combination of accumulative injuries, head space, continuity, adapting to change... all feeding each other.
With so much change, and increased expectation and greater demands, the deeper issues are also exposed.
Philosophically, and looking at it in a broader sense, I believe Pauly is absolutely correct in seeing this as the year Vossy and the new coaches learn about the list, themselves and cultural issues.
David King highlighted the Blues are 10-1 this year when they’ve won the clearance count by at least +5 but 3-6 when that count has been +4 or less.
Either the article was a misprint or King got the numbers wrong as we don't have 13 wins .
Voss is acutely aware of the problem. I've heard him in interviews say that they can't win the contest all the time (and sometimes not able to break even) and that they need to find some other levers to pull. Here's hoping they find them soon.
Fair points but we couldnt miss a target or goal before the mid season break. Apart from the obvious injury tol, what's happened? Fatigue of a long season playing above ourselves maybe?
Re Martin 100% agree.
It's not physically possible to play above yourself so not that. I'm thinking the long season is catching up. We had a very taxing style of play, which will take a couple of years before we a fit enough to carry it though. It's a good September style of play but takes a couple of seasons. We were brutal at the contest in the first half of the year but can't keep up now. We are on our way but it takes time.
About a year or so back we failed to stand by Plowman, after a heavy but fair collision between himself and some other spud who stacked on the contact. Plowman was penalised in a manner that was seen as unjust by all but a very limited few.
A few weeks back, we had the opportunity to stand by Hayes for what was a genuine contest and an unfortunately outcome contributed to by his opponent, we didn't and he was penalised.
From what is being rumoured I suspect Cripps is going on holiday now until 2023, probably a good thing for us, 2022 is a loss anyway given no Vic club is likely to win an interstate final.
If Cripps is suspended it is no use Carlton or it's fans complaining, in fact doing any complaining will probably just show up our own hypocrisy and double faced standards.
We are either a team, or we aren't, changing our ways now seems rather arbitrary!
Hayes and Plowman were absolutely shafted.
Cripps deserves 2 weeks.
Hayes and Plowman were absolutely shafted.
Cripps deserves 2 weeks.
Given the penalties handed out to Plowman and Hayes, you think Cripps is going to get the same or less! :o
I'm surprised Dangflog hasn't asked for Cripps to be deregistered!
Time to cut Jack Martin loose.....a handful of moments each match if you're lucky....then out injured again, usually with a calf, for 2-3 weeks. Took the big money payday in the first season so we could walk him through to the PSD but he's been a waste of time and money. A big bodied goal kicking midfielder would be handy in the trade period......De Goey anyone?
I still think Cripps will be fine -if it wasn't in the air and was on the ground and two players competing for ground ball and one player got hit high and concussed how many times do we see players leaving the ground with cut faces, anyway nothing happens as it is in the contest ? If it was in the contest you expect players to go in hard - it was definitely not intentional just a hard at it contest and should be thrown out - it wasn't even an intentional nor careless bump he didnt go for a bump he went for the spoil and went in hard.
Well that was painful... watching the game again.
Masochism or meat pie deprivation?
We got Hewett to beef up our engine room and Kennedy rose to the occasion. Without those two we are back to our old midfield problems.
He's right over the past fortnight our midfield has been substantially weaker and Walsh trying to do too much and too demanding - not his fault just doesn't trust the players with him in the midfield past couple of weeks. Even looked weak in the midfield when Cerra was missing against Richmond round 14 and when he returned round 16 against the Saints he was short of match fitness - lost both games. Missing both Hewett and Kennedy in the midfield is hurting the team structurally in their clearance work. Need to build depth in this area.
A mate of mine and I were texting during the game, he suggested throwing around the fwds and defenders (ie swapping a few over). I replied saying you could put Jesus Christ fwd or back, if the mids dont win the footy or defend in the middle, it wont achieve anything. I think our mids a have been soundly beaten for 2 weeks in a row and most other games we have lost. I think their work rate has been well down.
A mate of mine and I were texting during the game, he suggested throwing around the fwds and defenders (ie swapping a few over). I replied saying you could put Jesus Christ fwd or back, if the mids dont win the footy or defend in the middle, it wont achieve anything. I think our mids a have been soundly beaten for 2 weeks in a row and most other games we have lost. I think their work rate has been well down.
Yep - I don't think we need to hunt for A graders but players capable of playing that brutal bull role when required. Richmond had Jack Ross and Jack Graham coming into the midfield when/if Prestia, Cotchin, Lambert were missing. They are not bonafide A graders but good enough to play to a structure. I don't think we need A graders - got a couple of youngsters in the VFL that can help.
I think our mids a have been soundly beaten for 2 weeks in a row and most other games we have lost. I think their work rate has been well down.
Our Mids are fine, they are carrying the team at stoppages, the problem is we are being smashed in the ruck.
It's time to shoot Bambi!
We also assume that as injured players return they'll slot striaght back in as good as they were when they left.
The majority just don't.
Weitering and H have both been a shell of themselves, since coming back. Makes a big difference.
Every single returning player has been completely off. Other than Saad, I'm struggling to find a bloke playing consistent football for us ATM.
Blokes like Docherty Young Cerra Fisher Harry have been invisible. Would struggle to beat 18th right now I reckon.
What can be said? It was as a pathetic effort for the first three quarters I have seen in 20 years. I mean to say, after the sanctions and under Pagen, we had a crap side, we were broke, had crap facilities and a Coach no-one liked. What was the excuse for yesterday. I remember talking to David McKay at time and telling him all I wanted was a side that has a go because I believe that if you have a side that has a go, you can bring in better players over the time and the Club will improve. What we have done overt he past twenty years is only bring in good players and what we haven't done is develop a team that has a go. Over the past twenty-five years we have had teams that have picked and chose when they were going to turn up for matches, picked and chose which quarters we were going to play, and picked and chose within quarters whether they would have a go. We lost the final against Brisbane all those years ago because the ball was in dispute in the middle of the ground, the Carlton players decided it would be a ball up and stopped playing while the Brisbane players kept going, won the ball sent it forward and they got a goal. Game Over.
There is no team plan if you are not going to win the ball, there is no team plan if you are not going to kick and handball the ball to your team mates, there is no team plan if you aren't going to stick your tackles, there is no team plan if you are not going to run and create and there is no team plan if you are not going to put pressure on your opponents when they have the ball.
When I use to work, teaching and trouble shooting in organisations, I used to say that if you cannot identify the problem you cannot identify the solution. I remember looking on in horror at the start of the season when Sayers was doing a press conference with Voss and Cook and he started trying to convince people of the correctness of the decision to sack Teague and Liddle by saying the players were chanting Vossy, Vossy, Vossy and Cookie, Cookie, Cookie. Why players would be chanting the name of the CEO is beyond me.
Yesterday further demonstrates what I have been saying for years now, it is not the players, it is not the coaches, it is not the administration, it is not the Club Presidents and it is not the Boards, though many on the Board need to have a good hard look at themselves with the continual leaking to the media over the past twenty odd years. The problem is the culture of the Club.
The worst part of Elliot was that he destroyed the winning culture that Barassi, Nicholls and Harris developed in the 60's and 70's. When Elliot drove the salary cap breaches he basically said that the only way we can win is by cheating. The culture of the Club has changed since then but it now believes it can be successful if it is better than everyone else and only if there is a messiah to lead us because clearly we ar incapable of doing it ourselves.. Pagen, Malthouse, Judd and now Voss, were all suppose to be messiahs btut they have all turned out to be just naughty boys.
Our problem is that we have a losing culture. As I have said a number of times, winners win because they win and losers lose because they lose. Our Club wallows in the celebration of the mediocre. We don't only celebrate the good old days and great performances of teams and individuals we dwell in the past and hope someone will bring us to the promised land. Collingwood is a pretty ordinary side yet they have won eleven games on the trot, nine of which have been under two goals. When was the last time one of our teams made a charge of any sort. The players and Club talk about how great the fans are but they give us nothing. They play with process and without passion. If we are on top then everything is fine, however if our opponents turn up with fight and have fire in their belly, Carlton just turn it up. I am not just having a go at the current team. This has been happening for twenty-five years. As I have been saying, it is cultural. Losing has got to hurt. It doesn't and hasn't for a long time. If it had hurt then something would have been done about it by now.
Just give me a team that is going to have a red hot go throughout an entire match week in and week out. We have got the players, we have got the Coaches and we have got the administration. If we give 100% 100% of the time, success will take care of itself.
our players are to slow (forget first 10 rnds close wins were a band aid) how many times / games have we watched opposition score easy goals ,we dont defend as a team and our game plan is the worse in the league .voss and Austin got lot of work to do
The Coaches' votes tell a sorry tale - all Brisbane players except Weitering, who scored 1 vote. No redemption for that final quarter, and rightfully so IMO.
The review of the first 3 qtrs would have had the majority our blokes squirming in their seats today. After 2 weeks of utter puss and throwing the season away, I would expect nothing less than a scintillating effort against a down Melb.
But what I will see is more of the same, players are booking their trips by the look of it.
The review of the first 3 qtrs would have had the majority our blokes squirming in their seats today. After 2 weeks of utter puss and throwing the season away, I would expect nothing less than a scintillating effort against a down Melb.
But what I will see is more of the same, players are booking their trips by the look of it.
We just don't have wherewithal left, especially with the loss of Cripps now, to come close.
The team needs help in the middle - hope Hewett and Kennedy make miraculous recoveries.
If not Hayes and Stocker are the next best fit.
The team needs help in the middle - hope Hewett and Kennedy make miraculous recoveries.
Pretty sure Kennedy can't come back because of the 12 day protocol? Hewett I don't think will play again this year.
Pretty sure Kennedy can't come back because of the 12 day protocol? Hewett I don't think will play again this year.
Pretty rich to ask him to come back from a broken jaw this early.
The team needs help in the middle - hope Hewett and Kennedy make miraculous recoveries.
If not Hayes and Stocker are the next best fit.
I may be wrong but I thought Stock was injured in the reserves the week before their bye.
I may be wrong but I thought Stock was injured in the reserves the week before their bye.
He got concussed.
Missed last weeks game.
In theory, should be right for this week.
I may be wrong but I thought Stock was injured in the reserves the week before their bye.
Stocker got concussed in the VFL last week. Will likely squeeze in.
Next cabs off the rank are going to be of the likes of Jack Carroll, Sam Philp, Liam Stocker.
Whoever is fit probably gets a game.
Lets see how Setterfield goes in the extractor role next week.
Stocker got concussed in the VFL last week. Will likely squeeze in.
Next cabs off the rank are going to be of the likes of Jack Carroll, Sam Philp, Liam Stocker.
Whoever is fit probably gets a game.
Lets see how Setterfield goes in the extractor role next week.
Think Philp was ruled out for the year about half a season ago.
Cupboard is bare.
Stocker got concussed in the VFL last week. Will likely squeeze in.
Next cabs off the rank are going to be of the likes of Jack Carroll, Sam Philp, Liam Stocker.
Whoever is fit probably gets a game.
Lets see how Setterfield goes in the extractor role next week.
Philp is gone of the year that I am sure of.
https://www.carltonfc.com.au/matches/injury-list
Looks like we can have our rolls royce extractor combination of Kouta, Pendlebury and Cripps do the lions share of the extractor work this weekend against the reigning premiers....
:D
In all seriousness there is officially more talent missing than available AGAIN.
Philp is gone of the year that I am sure of.
Think he will be gone from the list at seasons end....
Think he will be gone from the list at seasons end....
Poor bugger.
Yeah I think Lloyd made it public he is looking to build the list with resilience over the coming years...and he is right/
Cunners and Marchy coming out of contract to be traded or delisted maybe.
https://www.carltonfc.com.au/matches/injury-list
Looks like we can have our rolls royce extractor combination of Kouta, Pendlebury and Cripps do the lions share of the extractor work this weekend against the reigning premiers....
:D
In all seriousness there is officially more talent missing than available AGAIN.
I wouldn't be surprised to see him do well, I have a theory about this guy, he can only really play one position well, and unfortunately that's usually occupied.
Cripps needs to get onto a deed poll this morning and change his name to Liam Ryan! ;)
https://www.carltonfc.com.au/matches/injury-list
Looks like we can have our rolls royce extractor combination of Kouta, Pendlebury and Cripps do the lions share of the extractor work this weekend against the reigning premiers....
:D
In all seriousness there is officially more talent missing than available AGAIN.
If he can't perform this week, he won't get a contract next year.