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Topic: blues played better footy under ratts (Read 16794 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: blues played better footy under ratts

Reply #15 –
Quote from: Goat on
Quote from: PassIt2Carrots on
Quote from: BeNavy on
Quote from: Goat on
Quote from: Gointocarlton on
Quote from: morbria on
Dunno about u guys but this boundary footy is crap. We looked much better under ratts taking the game on. Now our brand of footy is crap
You know this amazes me. When MM was a the Filth, we marvelled at what he was able to get out of a bunch of spastics to win a flag. He managed to get a very average list to adhere to instructions and give there all. All of a sudden, the game plan is crap, he can't coach, etc etc. I put the blame square on the useless bunch of soft corks that pull the jumper on every week.

But you don't blame him for not being able to "get a very average list to adhere to instructions and give there all"  ::)

Well Roos is doing well with arguably a squad worse than ours. Difference is the players are prepared to work hard and as a unit.

Is it? Or is Roos just a better coach with more innovation and not past his use by date. None of us know.
BANG! and able to get the players "to work hard and as a unit".

Fair point, but a coach can only do so much. Say what you want about MM, the game plan the club whoever but the fact is our players aren't prepared to work. they are lazy. people often bag Rowe and white at times which is understandable but they bloody try their guts out. Obviously trying isn't a substitute for their weaknesses but why can't proven players with ability like Gibbs and Garlett work a little harder? We some how up our ante in the last 5 minutes and become a force. Why not for the whole game? Are we intimated, hurt from a little criticism or just plain soft? seems like issues we have discussed for years.
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink it.

Re: blues played better footy under ratts

Reply #16 –
Quote from: BeNavy on
Quote from: Goat on
Quote from: PassIt2Carrots on
Quote from: BeNavy on
Quote from: Goat on
Quote from: Gointocarlton on
Quote from: morbria on
Dunno about u guys but this boundary footy is crap. We looked much better under ratts taking the game on. Now our brand of footy is crap
You know this amazes me. When MM was a the Filth, we marvelled at what he was able to get out of a bunch of spastics to win a flag. He managed to get a very average list to adhere to instructions and give there all. All of a sudden, the game plan is crap, he can't coach, etc etc. I put the blame square on the useless bunch of soft corks that pull the jumper on every week.

But you don't blame him for not being able to "get a very average list to adhere to instructions and give there all"  ::)

Well Roos is doing well with arguably a squad worse than ours. Difference is the players are prepared to work hard and as a unit.

Is it? Or is Roos just a better coach with more innovation and not past his use by date. None of us know.
BANG! and able to get the players "to work hard and as a unit".

Fair point, but a coach can only do so much. Say what you want about MM, the game plan the club whoever but the fact is our players aren't prepared to work. they are lazy. people often bag Rowe and white at times which is understandable but they bloody try their guts out. Obviously trying isn't a substitute for their weaknesses but why can't proven players with ability like Gibbs and Garlett work a little harder? We some how up our ante in the last 5 minutes and become a force. Why not for the whole game? Are we intimated, hurt from a little criticism or just plain soft? seems like issues we have discussed for years.
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink it.
Any coach can coach a good/great list, and a good/great coach should be able to coach an average list to be good/great.  The assumption people make is that MM is a great coach and can coach other average lists to greatness, just not this one.  Yet I thought he was hired to do exactly what he did with other average lists??

I don't agree with the title of this thread we didn't play better under Ratts, nothing has changed expect we have a new more experienced super coach and still play the same inconsistent footy.
Excuses year 1, blame year 2, contract extention year 3........

Re: blues played better footy under ratts

Reply #17 –
Quote from: Goat on
But you don't blame him for not being able to "get a very average list to adhere to instructions and give there all"  ::)

Carlton has developed a loser mentality, we have been so ordinary for so long that the players, with a few exceptions, don't know how to be anything other than ordinary.
They don't expect to beat the best and haven't for a long time, don't anyone kid themselves that it was any different under Ratten.
It's going to take a seismic shift to eradicate the entrenched mediocrity
The only thing in this world worth more than a hill of beans is the Carlton Football Club.

Re: blues played better footy under ratts

Reply #18 –
The loser mentality is no more exemplified than by the twats that wanted Ratts gone because because they thought we could win a premiership and now that they have their new coach, blame the players. That's a loser mentality if I ever saw one.
Ignorance is bliss.

ONWARDS AND UPWARDS!

Re: blues played better footy under ratts

Reply #19 –
Quote from: blue4life on
Quote from: Goat on
But you don't blame him for not being able to "get a very average list to adhere to instructions and give there all"  ::)

Carlton has developed a loser mentality, we have been so ordinary for so long that the players, with a few exceptions, don't know how to be anything other than ordinary.
They don't expect to beat the best and haven't for a long time, don't anyone kid themselves that it was any different under Ratten.
It's going to take a seismic shift to eradicate the entrenched mediocrity

thats my great fear....

a culture of mediocrity is carlton now

thats why alot of people at princes park have to be moved on...on and off field....

Re: blues played better footy under ratts

Reply #20 –
Quote from: PassIt2Carrots on
The loser mentality is no more exemplified than by the twats that wanted Ratts gone because because they thought we could win a premiership and now that they have their new coach, blame the players. That's a loser mentality if I ever saw one.
One of our cultural negatives at the moment is the wish for instant gratification. We, as a club, have fallen into the habit of expecting it. Not even the great Ronald Dale Barassi managed a premiership in his first year. It took 4 years to reach the reward after a generation of mediocrity. We went through huge changes in that 4 years on and off the field and we changed over a large portion of the list to do it.
We have to be patient now: nobody is going to turn us into a premiership team overnight. Ratten should be acknowledged for the job he did with our list: he turned a bunch of battlers into finalists. It IS where our expectations came from. However, I doubt that Ratts would have won us a flag: he was too comfortable with the list as it was and didn't move players on. In fact, his biggest weakness was his faith in the players: he wouldn't move them until too late.
He will be a better coach now for the experience at Hawthorn, but that is another issue.
The blow torch is now on the players, as we DO have a proven coach. Fair enough. But that lack of support and a negative comments towards our players isn't helping them gain any confidence.
Yes, we will have to make considerable changes at the end of the season. Malthouse took years to develop his list at Collingwood: it will take a while with us too. But the character assassinations of our players from outsiders like us do not help. Let's see if we can be a bit more realistic: our list is not going to change significantly until November and Malthouse has said that he isn't going to play kids just to play kids. He will wait until they are at least minimally ready to play senior footy. Then he will see if they have what it takes. But sacrificing them now isn't going to help us in the short or medium terms.
We have started the renewal process: we have a new off field leader. Let's have a little patience and a little faith as the changes start, because we are NOT going to beat everybody by magic! It takes time and development, not instant gratificiation.
Live Long and Prosper!

Re: blues played better footy under ratts

Reply #21 –
@crash
garbage it takes time ,to the extent that we are not going to allow the same on field and off field people another opportunity to make poor decisions

with the new president i expect alot of people movement off field....

Re: blues played better footy under ratts

Reply #22 –
Quote from: MosquitoFleet on
@crash
garbage it takes time ,to the extent that we are not going to allow the same on field and off field people another opportunity to make poor decisions

with the new president i expect alot of people movement off field....

We have made a big bet on Malthouse and unfortunately sacking him now would set this club back another 2-3 years, something that we cannot afford.

It is important the club imposes itself on Malthouse and ensures through its organisational structure that he is not running his own show - he is accountable to the members and must now be cautioned on disassociating himself from the team results that he is responsible for. Like any other employee, Carlton must manage his delegated authority in any area that he demonstrates poor judgement in -  for example, we now have some evidence  following the recruitment of Dale Thomas (and to an extent Wood), that recruitment and identifying player talent is not a strong area for Malthouse and so, the club must now limit his direct and indirect role in player recruitment, and in so doing, empower our recruitment team to do their job without interference.

Malthouse can be managed - whilst he would know that it is extremely difficult for Carlton to terminate his employment, he would also be well aware that there is no demand for his services as an AFL coach at another club and like Dennis Pagan before him, his standing in the game will be severely diminished if he cannot achieve some success at Carlton.

Re: blues played better footy under ratts

Reply #23 –
Quote from: JonDorotich on
Quote from: MosquitoFleet on
@crash
garbage it takes time ,to the extent that we are not going to allow the same on field and off field people another opportunity to make poor decisions

with the new president i expect alot of people movement off field....

We have made a big bet on Malthouse and unfortunately sacking him now would set this club back another 2-3 years, something that we cannot afford.

That is simply not true you cannot say either way. Look at what Hinkley did for the basket case that was Port.



Ignorance is bliss.

ONWARDS AND UPWARDS!

Re: blues played better footy under ratts

Reply #24 –
Quote from: PassIt2Carrots on
Quote from: JonDorotich on
Quote from: MosquitoFleet on
@crash
garbage it takes time ,to the extent that we are not going to allow the same on field and off field people another opportunity to make poor decisions

with the new president i expect alot of people movement off field....

We have made a big bet on Malthouse and unfortunately sacking him now would set this club back another 2-3 years, something that we cannot afford.

That is simply not true you cannot say either way. Look at what Hinkley did for the basket case that was Port.

And what would happen if we ended up with Watters instead of a Hinkley?

Re: blues played better footy under ratts

Reply #25 –
Quote from: LanceRomance on
Quote from: PassIt2Carrots on
Quote from: JonDorotich on
Quote from: MosquitoFleet on
@crash
garbage it takes time ,to the extent that we are not going to allow the same on field and off field people another opportunity to make poor decisions

with the new president i expect alot of people movement off field....

We have made a big bet on Malthouse and unfortunately sacking him now would set this club back another 2-3 years, something that we cannot afford.

That is simply not true you cannot say either way. Look at what Hinkley did for the basket case that was Port.

And what would happen if we ended up with Watters instead of a Hinkley?

Do you think it would be a good idea to start again with a new coach/assistants and game plan? Really???

Re: blues played better footy under ratts

Reply #26 –
Quote from: JonDorotich on
Quote from: LanceRomance on
Quote from: PassIt2Carrots on
Quote from: JonDorotich on
Quote from: MosquitoFleet on
@crash
garbage it takes time ,to the extent that we are not going to allow the same on field and off field people another opportunity to make poor decisions

with the new president i expect alot of people movement off field....

We have made a big bet on Malthouse and unfortunately sacking him now would set this club back another 2-3 years, something that we cannot afford.

That is simply not true you cannot say either way. Look at what Hinkley did for the basket case that was Port.

And what would happen if we ended up with Watters instead of a Hinkley?

Do you think it would be a good idea to start again with a new coach/assistants and game plan? Really???
Comment directed at PI2C

Re: blues played better footy under ratts

Reply #27 –
Quote from: JonDorotich on

Do you think it would be a good idea to start again with a new coach/assistants and game plan? Really???

The way we go about appointing them, I don't think it makes all that much difference. If we had half a clue then... Well, then we probably wouldn't be in this mess to begin with.

Re: blues played better footy under ratts

Reply #28 –
I think most people had the expectation that MM would get us to a final within 2-3 yrs because it's MM.

Re: blues played better footy under ratts

Reply #29 –
Quote from: BeNavy on
I think most people had the expectation that MM would get us to a final within 2-3 yrs because it's MM.

We were a team with young players, who struggled with the defensive side of the game, was inconsistent and in recent times struggled against the best sides. It seemed that tweaking was all that was needed. Finals seemed a more than reasonable expectation but Now we're an old rubbish bottom 8 side and we say the players are no good because the guy who gets the blame if the players aren't woeful says so.