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Topic: Post Game Parlay: AFL 2019 Rd 3: Carlton vs Sydney (Read 35984 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Post Game Parlay: AFL 2019 Rd 3: Carlton vs Sydney

Reply #180 –
Quote from: PaulP on
So you reckon Bolton is the runt of the Clarkson litter ?

Probably not.

IMHO, we could have taken the best of the lot and turned them into poo (im yet to see evidence to say we havent), because that's the Carlton coaching vortex.  Chews them up, and spits them out with their career in tatters.

This is why we didnt get Dew.

We can't afford to sack Bolton.  We won't attract another decent coach for the next 20 years, will alienate half the playing group, will polarise the supporter base (again), will divide the boardroom (again) and we will become the Tassie Blues quicker than you can say tanking.



Needless to say, some dimwit like Mathieson will come along, appoint Ross Lyon at the end of next season (or worse still, James Hird because we wont appoint Ratten again) and then we will sit there and wonder what may have been again as our aging stars get pushed out the door to try and get in the next elite draft picks for us to turn into spuds.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Post Game Parlay: AFL 2019 Rd 3: Carlton vs Sydney

Reply #181 –
Those are fair points Thry.

Re: Post Game Parlay: AFL 2019 Rd 3: Carlton vs Sydney

Reply #182 –
We’ve been patient and trusting. In fact trusting to a Herculean level. And we’ve made progress, the CFC is now a world leader in how to lose really, really well. It’s not a catastrophe, yet.

From my understanding it was a commitment from the club, based on surveying us, that we wanted no quick fixes and no more blowouts.

Well, the club and senior coach have delivered on that. The ‘old Carlton’ would have sent BB, and others, packing long ago. We stayed the course for the first 2 years, with stoic persistence and moved the club away from way too many massive losses. These high number of blowouts are sure a thing of the past.

But…

We are now faced with a massive problem. We do not know how to win. We’ve got the blokes to win games, of that I am certain. Many sides have achieved a lot more with much less.

The problem is that a mind-set of avoiding huge defeats, is now ingrained in our club. It’s now the culture. Conservative, safe coaching is the norm.

Our players are now delivering exactly what they been trained to do over the past 3 years… avoid a bad loss. That’s their focus. That’s our focus. And it’s rock solid.

But when it came time to change that focus, realising we had to start kicking winning scores, to be more offensive, we seem to have found ourselves stuck in the initial mental conditioning/programming. Remember the start of last year? We announced over the summer of ‘17/’18 that we were adding an ‘offensive layer’. Lasted about 15 minutes into the 2018 season, then as soon as bona fide pressure was applied to our blokes, we ‘reverted to type.’ And we are still to this day, ‘reverting to type’ when pressure is applied. We do not know how to win, but we do know how to avoid a blowout, and this is BBs very obvious strength.

We need someone else to help transition the players to a winning mind-set. Not a Messiah, just someone who understands how to develop a winning mind-set in a sporting club.

To ask BB to suddenly become a very different senior coach/person with a different message is an horrendously difficult transition, not to mention whether the players will buy it. Looks like they’re not (as I assume he’s trying just that, now). And how could they? Some will (looks like Ed bought it big time), but most won’t. Do we want Walsh to have a safe/conservative mind-set?

What makes suggesting the need for strong change in coaching approach/style all the more difficult is that saying anything apparently negative about BB is like shooting Bambi. The bloke is so likeable, affable, bubbly… even sweet, so how dare you, Baggers, suggest he’s not the bloke for 2020 onward!!?? Doe like eyes, a smile that lights up the room… sheesh, even the media is going easy on him, cutting him way more slack than just about anyone else.

We probably made a rod for our backs with the initial brief to BB, which he delivered on, in spades, in the first 2 years… but he couldn’t change the course of the ship… stick to the coast, avoid rough seas (to use my former RAN life speak).

Arguments around ‘too many kids’ don’t cut it. Plenty of sides have an imbalance of kids and still find ways to win, ways to kick more than 100 pts. We definitely looked good enough to win our first 3 games this year, we just don’t know how to win.

Even when this side achieves perfect cohesion, it’ll only deliver brave, spirited, honourable losses week in week out (sound familiar?). Sure we’ll win a few games, but only against opposition in really bad form.

Wonder if anyone in the media will have the macaroons to ask hard questions about where our rebuild sits at this very minute. I bet the club expected us to be way better now than we presently are – equal bottom and with an uncanny ability to get into winning positions then sabotage it. If we stay this course for much longer we will run aground.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Post Game Parlay: AFL 2019 Rd 3: Carlton vs Sydney

Reply #183 –
Cripps is 24, if we are still floundering around when he is 26-27 can we keep him? or will he look for the big retirement contract and a premiership contender club...same with some of our other kids.
Its fine sticking with Bolton but will our top kids who wont stay kids for ever stick with us when the big dollars come looking for them if we are still a basket case?

When is the cutoff point, the line in the sand...5 years?  We need an injection of a some real star material like a Conliglio, Kelly etc to be a catalyst, how can you attract that with bottom 4 results?
Sooner or later the club will have to set a bar for Bolton to reach and make a decision, we just cant keep drifting along doing the same thing every year, achieving the same results, getting another No 1 or 2 draft pick and being annual rebuilders.

Falling in just and getting the points vs rubbish like Gold Coast wont change anything either unless we win by plenty and kick 100 points....it will be just another false dawn
that appeases a few for a another short period of time until we run up against another easybeat team and do similar and end up with 3-4 wins at seasons end.

Re: Post Game Parlay: AFL 2019 Rd 3: Carlton vs Sydney

Reply #184 –
We need some new inspiration from the coaching box and a Hodge like on field elder statesman to turn the ship around.  If Doc does not come back we need to look elsewhere.  Perhaps that search should already have started.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: Post Game Parlay: AFL 2019 Rd 3: Carlton vs Sydney

Reply #185 –
Quote from: cookie2 on
We need some new inspiration from the coaching box and a Hodge like on field elder statesman to turn the ship around.  If Doc does not come back we need to look elsewhere.  Perhaps that search should already have started.

There is some irony in today's AFL discussions, with Robinson setting the tone for the Lions! it seems the biggest change in Robinson's game has been the assessment of it!

I can't let this go, we need to do more than play nice to win! It's nothing to do with who is captain, and making Cripps No.1 has done nothing for us because he was already doing all that he could.

As supporters we've watched Cripps for years and knew exactly what he was doing, now in 2019 the media are telling us we should be happy going forward because of how good he is, really! There is nothing more Cripps can give, we'll break him like we broke Judd, and then they will tell us we were unlucky!

btw., Did any of you notice the tete-a-tete between sMurph, Simmo and Cripps late in the game last weekend?
The Force Awakens!

Re: Post Game Parlay: AFL 2019 Rd 3: Carlton vs Sydney

Reply #186 –
EB I made the same point in one of these threads last year about Cripps. If his current contract takes him to the free agency stage and he's been getting smashed from pillar to post week after week and we're still winning 3-5 games/season, no one in their right mind would condemn him for leaving the club and coming back to WA where his family are and playing for someone like West Coast who are in the flag window....he would've more than earned the payday and the chance to be a part of a premiership.

Like most, I was rapt when BB was appointed coach and at the youthful enthusiasm he brought to the table. But if we finish bottom again this year (and give up the number 1 draft pick) then there is absolutely no way he can stay on as coach...it's pretty cut throat but he'd be aware of that.

Your reply comment to my initial comment summed it up....after years of recruiting young guns with high end draft picks and trades....we still don't have anyone with elite kicking skills! How is that possible? That's not the coaches fault but if a young player has shortfalls in kicking skills, you don't just keep on recruiting those types surely?

Re: Post Game Parlay: AFL 2019 Rd 3: Carlton vs Sydney

Reply #187 –
Minor point...and I don't want to crucify him because just because I didn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen.
But did anyone see Buddy shake Jones's hand after the game?
From the TV as the siren went they were in a contest that left Jones on his haunches and Buddy just walked away.
Jones had a funny look as he watched him go.
In the post match interview Buddy did give Jones some faint praise however King said to him as the interview concluded "I'll let you go and shake Liam Jones's hand"....which made me think it didn't happen....and was noticed.

Re: Post Game Parlay: AFL 2019 Rd 3: Carlton vs Sydney

Reply #188 –
Yes, I noticed the first part, I'd turned off by the time of the interview.

As an aside, most likely Cripps will be the only Carlton player getting an AFLCA vote. Cripps was the only Carlton player to get an AFLCA vote in the first two rounds, I wonder if this has ever happened before, even back in Judd times?

Many media scribes have Cripps BoG again in the losing team, he's becoming the new Robert Harvey!
The Force Awakens!

Re: Post Game Parlay: AFL 2019 Rd 3: Carlton vs Sydney

Reply #189 –
Quote from: Professer E on
Watching the tape.....Heeney gets a golden run.   Pushes blokes out...  No free.... Touch him it's a free.   He's a F+*,ing Bilby that bloke.

The two goals that Buddy kicked were rotten calls as well. He gets frees based on reputation...he's buddy and his opponent is a no name (Jones)  who doesn't count.  

Shouldn't have expected any different, Swans got stiffed last week,  can't have that two weeks in a row.

Problem I have is McKay gets blocked or held and they just ignore it.


AMEN.....

It was so funny listening to the commentators try to justify the Buddy 2 hand shove in the back of Jones "well, he didnt really extend his hands too far... "  "he didnt mean it"  "he had his fingers crossed"

An the McKay stuff is spot on.  As soon as he started to take a few grabs, bang, Swans plowing into him left and right, including taking his legs from him as he starts to jump.  When Sinclair went off with the broken nose - that was a direct result of a Swans player taking his eyes off the ball and hitting the pack head first, in a marking contest, as 1 of 4 Swans trying to maim McKay, he just missed and got his own player.  McKay got one chopping the arms, when it (or a tunnel, or a block off the ball) happens EVERY time............. hoepfully in a few years, when he is more of a name, he will get a few

Re: Post Game Parlay: AFL 2019 Rd 3: Carlton vs Sydney

Reply #190 –
Quote from: Milhanna13 on
AMEN.....

It was so funny listening to the commentators try to justify the Buddy 2 hand shove in the back of Jones "well, he didnt really extend his hands too far... "  "he didnt mean it"  "he had his fingers crossed"

An the McKay stuff is spot on.  As soon as he started to take a few grabs, bang, Swans plowing into him left and right, including taking his legs from him as he starts to jump.  When Sinclair went off with the broken nose - that was a direct result of a Swans player taking his eyes off the ball and hitting the pack head first, in a marking contest, as 1 of 4 Swans trying to maim McKay, he just missed and got his own player.  McKay got one chopping the arms, when it (or a tunnel, or a block off the ball) happens EVERY time............. hoepfully in a few years, when he is more of a name, he will get a few

That Buddy push was a shocker....no question there are two sets of rules. The umps helped them considerably (the age old AFL directive?)

The more I think about it the result wasn't a shocker - the Swans did play well - all their experienced heads TURNED UP.

Our experienced (older) heads were largely ineffectual - as usual. Will we ever see Murph swing a game or even be BOG - or close - again?

Won't see Ed kick 4 again in my lifetime. Why he isn't playing as a stopper bewilders me!

We blundered at the selection table AGAIN. Picked too many kids....Polson/LOB.
Finals, then 4 in a row!
 

Re: Post Game Parlay: AFL 2019 Rd 3: Carlton vs Sydney

Reply #191 –
Quote from: WASurfer on
EB I made the same point in one of these threads last year about Cripps. If his current contract takes him to the free agency stage and he's been getting smashed from pillar to post week after week and we're still winning 3-5 games/season, no one in their right mind would condemn him for leaving the club and coming back to WA where his family are and playing for someone like West Coast who are in the flag window....he would've more than earned the payday and the chance to be a part of a premiership.

Like most, I was rapt when BB was appointed coach and at the youthful enthusiasm he brought to the table. But if we finish bottom again this year (and give up the number 1 draft pick) then there is absolutely no way he can stay on as coach...it's pretty cut throat but he'd be aware of that.

Your reply comment to my initial comment summed it up....after years of recruiting young guns with high end draft picks and trades....we still don't have anyone with elite kicking skills! How is that possible? That's not the coaches fault but if a young player has shortfalls in kicking skills, you don't just keep on recruiting those types surely?

Surfie...we need a young Pendlebury who has some real class and can give us some silk after Cripps has done the hard work in the middle.....same down forward, we need that Robbie Gray type who can kick a bag of five and give us some class to support our talls who are talented and are the real deal...

Re: Post Game Parlay: AFL 2019 Rd 3: Carlton vs Sydney

Reply #192 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 on
Surfie...we need a young Pendlebury who has some real class and can give us some silk after Cripps has done the hard work in the middle.....same down forward, we need that Robbie Gray type who can kick a bag of five and give us some class to support our talls who are talented and are the real deal...

Setterfield can be anything but we need to be patient....

Until we see what Pickett can bring, I'd love to see SPS forward more - he is one (like Pendles) who makes time stand still. And what of the luckiest man on the list, KymLeBois?!

Kennedy too has much potential as a forward imo. Hard at it, not slow (despite what some say - he was never in shape last year) and reads the play very well.
Finals, then 4 in a row!

Re: Post Game Parlay: AFL 2019 Rd 3: Carlton vs Sydney

Reply #193 –
The simmering anger I've got is the useless summer training to drill in the basics of kicking until they get it right.  There are NO excuses for that and Bolton's gotta wear all of that.  You can't kick?  You don't play.  Hard intra club and drills until it's perfected

Say what you want about Malthouse, but he knew the pies were weak thru the centre so he  enforced the boundary line approach and damn well honed it to the point of brilliance within inches of the chalk from half back to half forward to cover the positional shortfalls

I am not enthused with Bolton at all.   



Re: Post Game Parlay: AFL 2019 Rd 3: Carlton vs Sydney

Reply #194 –
Quote from: capcom on
Say what you want about Malthouse, but he knew the pies were weak thru the centre so he  enforced the boundary line approach and damn well honed it to the point of brilliance within inches of the chalk from half back to half forward to cover the positional shortfalls

Statistically we had a dominant midfield, despite struggling for wins we were right near the top of the tables for clearances and center breaks, yet MM applied the same handbrake game style that he'd applied at the Filth! :o

MM saw the boundary line arm-wrestle as the way to win finals, yet ironically he didn't win that many and when he did it was off the back of significant running power from guys like Daisy, Swan, Ball, Pendlebury, Didak, Matera, Mainwaring, Heady or Lewis!

It wasn't a bad game plan, but after a decade or more of being picked apart by opposition the chances of further success using it was at best slim.

Quote from: capcom on
The simmering anger I've got is the useless summer training to drill in the basics of kicking until they get it right.  There are NO excuses for that and Bolton's gotta wear all of that.  You can't kick?  You don't play.  Hard intra club and drills until it's perfected

I am not enthused with Bolton at all.

I'm not sure the skills issue has much to do with a senior coach at AFL level, but he does need to wear the tactical criticism.
The Force Awakens!