Skip to main content ↑ ↓
Topic: If Not BB, Who? (Read 60584 times) previous topic - next topic
0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Re: If Not BB, Who?

Reply #225 –
Lot of vocal minorities in this country as well.


DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Re: If Not BB, Who?

Reply #226 –
Quote from: jeza on
I don't think anyone is thinking hissy fit. The reality is that all the odds are stacked against Bolton though.

No hissy fits?  You haven’t been paying attention to the efforts of other posters  :)

I’m not sure that the odds are stacked against Bolton.  The club has embarked on a process that we have never attempted before and the board must have been fully aware that it was a long term process.  Bolton must have this season and next, at a minimum, to demonstrate that his way will get us our next flag.
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

Re: If Not BB, Who?

Reply #227 –
The club selected a rookie coach for the long term...in effect to grow and develop with the young players.
The experience is no doubt teaching Bolton some valuable lessons and as a result of that you would expect that his coaching will improve.

At the same time folks are quite entitled to look at the results and question the merits of both the coaching and development.
Maybe things are on the improve, but the results don't yet indicate that the course on which we've embarked will be successful in the long term.
The real goal is a sustained period of success.

We can't keep moving the goal posts....and keep saying "well maybe another year."
That would be acceptable if the number of wins and ladder position were improving each year....but they're heading in the other direction.

Individual player improvement is fine but unless it's across board and the individuals are also combining as a team it's pretty meaningless.

Results can turn quickly....no doubt.
But they can also stagnate, and the years in the wilderness can be long.

We need more than "little signs" just at the moment.
We need a period of a couple of games that indicate we've turned the corner, the players are developing and this bloke Bolton knows a thing or two about coaching.
Hopefully that starts this weekend.

The odds may not be stacked against Bolton but....
It's a fluctuating market and like it or not, like any market, it's governed by results

Re: If Not BB, Who?

Reply #228 –
Quote from: Lods on
The club selected a rookie coach for the long term...in effect to grow and develop with the young players.
The experience is no doubt teaching Bolton some valuable lessons and as a result of that you would expect that his coaching will improve.

At the same time folks are quite entitled to look at the results and question the merits of both the coaching and development.
Maybe things are on the improve, but the results don't yet indicate that the course on which we've embarked will be successful in the long term.
The real goal is a sustained period of success.

We can't keep moving the goal posts....and keep saying "well maybe another year."
That would be acceptable if the number of wins and ladder position were improving each year....but they're heading in the other direction.

Individual player improvement is fine but unless it's across board and the individuals are also combining as a team it's pretty meaningless.

Results can turn quickly....no doubt.
But they can also stagnate, and the years in the wilderness can be long.

We need more than "little signs" just at the moment.
We need a period of a couple of games that indicate we've turned the corner, the players are developing and this bloke Bolton knows a thing or two about coaching.
Hopefully that starts this weekend.

The odds may not be stacked against Bolton but....
It's a fluctuating market and like it or not, like any market, it's governed by results

I don't think the goal posts have moved lods. People just didn't know where they were and took an ill-informed guess.
From blokes like flyboy who thought we were basically finals bound last year, to blokes now who think we are so far off that we need to sack the coach.

The club always said, 3 years of hitting the draft hard, then we'll have the core group to start climbing up the ladder to ultimate glory.

Now we start the climb. It'll take a little bit to get our feet, but once we get our eye in, improvement will be exponential.

Re: If Not BB, Who?

Reply #229 –
Quote from: Lods on
The club selected a rookie coach for the long term...in effect to grow and develop with the young players.
The experience is no doubt teaching Bolton some valuable lessons and as a result of that you would expect that his coaching will improve.

At the same time folks are quite entitled to look at the results and question the merits of both the coaching and development.
Maybe things are on the improve, but the results don't yet indicate that the course on which we've embarked will be successful in the long term.
The real goal is a sustained period of success.

We can't keep moving the goal posts....and keep saying "well maybe another year."
That would be acceptable if the number of wins and ladder position were improving each year....but they're heading in the other direction.

Individual player improvement is fine but unless it's across board and the individuals are also combining as a team it's pretty meaningless.

Results can turn quickly....no doubt.
But they can also stagnate, and the years in the wilderness can be long.

We need more than "little signs" just at the moment.
We need a period of a couple of games that indicate we've turned the corner, the players are developing and this bloke Bolton knows a thing or two about coaching.
Hopefully that starts this weekend.

The odds may not be stacked against Bolton but....
It's a fluctuating market and like it or not, like any market, it's governed by results

Actually lods, we have to maintain the status quo.

This is a bit like driving around Australia.  You can head east, or you can head west before it turns north.  Both will end up at the exact same destination eventually unless you keep changing direction.

That's the only way to ensure you never get anywhere.

Our club has continuously embarked on a plan only to abandon it before it could bear fruit.

This time we need to be bloody minded and continue our current methodology for the next ten years with minimal deviation.  Half the reason we can't attract a decent player is because the blokes who come to us end up finalizing their careers with us unless they jump ship.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: If Not BB, Who?

Reply #230 –
@ Kruddler and Thry

While I accept the sentiments that by staying the course we are attempting something completely different I don't think we can maintain it for too much longer.

Firstly we cant just ignore the last three years and pretend that was all about compiling the list and nothing further.
Bolton's starting point of judgement isn't now.
It's a compilation of all that's gone before, but yes more importantly what he does in the next 12-24 months.

However Bolton as coach is not the major issue for me...
I like him and I have a feeling that with a different set of criteria his results to this point may have been different.

Nope....I'm more concerned with the architects than the builder.

Can we continue on the same path indefinitely.
That would be fine and I'd even accept it if the decision was just ours.
But it's not.
It's a whole club interest that's also affected by external pressures (media, sponsors)and competing interests amongst our more influential supporters.

How the current position is playing out amongst our everyday supporters is not able to be determined.
I'd guess there is still majority support...but I think most folk fear the result of not staying the course rather than being confident it will succeed.

If someone had said to you at the end of round 2 2015....

"We're rebuilding. It will take time. We may drop to the bottom of the ladder at the end of this year but that will mean some strong draft positions." Your response would probably have been.... "Bring it on!"

Had they added …

"Oh, by the way.... we'll also be last at the end of 2018 and  it will probably take several years after that before we're back in the finals....if at all, no guarantees!...and a couple of us won't be here to see it through"
... would you still have bought what they were selling.




Re: If Not BB, Who?

Reply #231 –
Nicely summized, Principal LODS.

In the words of Bertrand Russell, “In all affairs it's a healthy thing now and then to hang a question mark on the things you have long taken for granted.”

Not questioning the present administration, and just trusting them with blind faith year after year, has an air of lemmings off a cliff about it.

A lot of questioning and even second guessing starts when the club does not communicate clearly exactly what is going on when there are continued and consistent poor results. There was good communication early on and we knew what was coming and accepted that. And the first two years, although gutting the side (and still many non-hackers taking the field for us) there were sporadic wins and much to be encouraged about in terms of effort. There were few signs of surrender, in any game. Now, we look good when our opposition is not switched on, then fold when real heat is applied.

I, like most, was relieved and wrapped that the club chose a rebuild. And, I repeat, the first two years, although the W & L was ordinary it was not unexpected and there were, just about every week, encouraging signs. Reasonable to expect that would flow into year 3. Nuh.

Year three did not follow, as I believe the club expected, the first two. The club announced an offensive layer (acknowledgment that the biggest problem was being addressed)... which says pretty clearly, we intend to score more/higher. Flop. Bad flop.

Year 4 arrives and thus far seems an extension of year 3 even though we are now fielding a much, much better side. Better side, worse results... mmm...

Wouldn't it be ironic if the very time we 'stick the course' it turns out to be the wrong course, being administered by the wrong people.

My hope is that it all magically clicks into place, starting tomorrow and we win the next 5 games, by handsome margins and in 4 of those games kick more than 100 pts. What was that Supertramp hit from 1974/5? It was from the Crime of the Century album?

Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: If Not BB, Who?

Reply #232 –
Quote from: Lods on
@ Kruddler and Thry

While I accept the sentiments that by staying the course we are attempting something completely different I don't think we can maintain it for too much longer.

Firstly we cant just ignore the last three years and pretend that was all about compiling the list and nothing further.
Bolton's starting point of judgement isn't now.
It's a compilation of all that's gone before, but yes more importantly what he does in the next 12-24 months.

However Bolton as coach is not the major issue for me...
I like him and I have a feeling that with a different set of criteria his results to this point may have been different.

Nope....I'm more concerned with the architects than the builder.

Can we continue on the same path indefinitely.
That would be fine and I'd even accept it if the decision was just ours.
But it's not.
It's a whole club interest that's also affected by external pressures (media, sponsors)and competing interests amongst our more influential supporters.

How the current position is playing out amongst our everyday supporters is not able to be determined.
I'd guess there is still majority support...but I think most folk fear the result of not staying the course rather than being confident it will succeed.

If someone had said to you at the end of round 2 2015....

"We're rebuilding. It will take time. We may drop to the bottom of the ladder at the end of this year but that will mean some strong draft positions." Your response would probably have been.... "Bring it on!"

Had they added …

"Oh, by the way.... we'll also be last at the end of 2018 and  it will probably take several years after that before we're back in the finals....if at all, no guarantees!...and a couple of us won't be here to see it through"
... would you still have bought what they were selling.

That's the thing though lods. 

I didn't need them to tell me that it would take more than 3 years for the tide to turn.  If everything was going perfectly we might have been a finals side this season.

It hasn't and so we aren't.

Logic told me it was going to take longer.

Why?  Rewind 3 years.  How was Dustin Martin looking as a footballer?

Answer, talented peanut destined not to achieve anything.

Our youngsters are on schedule more or less.  The reason we are struggling is our senior players.  Docherty out for two seasons running, jreuzer breaking down all the time, Murphy not at his best, ed curnow not making an impact,  and Simpson waning is why we are not winning games.  The kids are doing what kids do.  Cripps and daisy are the only two senior bodies standing up every week.

That's why we're struggling.   In 2 years time we will be a force to contend with irrespective of how our elder players go.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: If Not BB, Who?

Reply #233 –
Quote from: kruddler on
I don't think the goal posts have moved lods. People just didn't know where they were and took an ill-informed guess.
From blokes like flyboy who thought we were basically finals bound last year, to blokes now who think we are so far off that we need to sack the coach.

The club always said, 3 years of hitting the draft hard, then we'll have the core group to start climbing up the ladder to ultimate glory.

Now we start the climb. It'll take a little bit to get our feet, but once we get our eye in, improvement will be exponential.

Yes, I'll put my hand up to being just a tad too optimistic.  With the benefit of hindsight - and a decent reality check - it's plain to see that the hard part is just beginning.
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

Re: If Not BB, Who?

Reply #234 –
All I hear are excuses. Tigers just beat port over there without the big 4.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: If Not BB, Who?

Reply #235 –
Quote
Our youngsters are on schedule more or less.  The reason we are struggling is our senior players.  Docherty out for two seasons running, jreuzer breaking down all the time, Murphy not at his best, ed curnow not making an impact,  and Simpson waning is why we are not winning games.  The kids are doing what kids do.  Cripps and daisy are the only two senior bodies standing up every week.

Ed being played out of position. Murphy, sadly, should retire imo. He doesn't look remotely hungry...

Simmo - well who knows - he looks ordinary right now but has bounced before....

Lobbe - needs to play out of his skin tomorrow.

Daisy - soli, wise head but a $350k a year player not $700k or the like.
Finals, then 4 in a row!

Re: If Not BB, Who?

Reply #236 –
Quote from: Thryleon on
That's the thing though lods. 

I didn't need them to tell me that it would take more than 3 years for the tide to turn.  If everything was going perfectly we might have been a finals side this season.

It hasn't and so we aren't.

Logic told me it was going to take longer.

Why?  Rewind 3 years.  How was Dustin Martin looking as a footballer?

Answer, talented peanut destined not to achieve anything.

Our youngsters are on schedule more or less.  The reason we are struggling is our senior players.  Docherty out for two seasons running, jreuzer breaking down all the time, Murphy not at his best, ed curnow not making an impact,  and Simpson waning is why we are not winning games.  The kids are doing what kids do.  Cripps and daisy are the only two senior bodies standing up every week.

That's why we're struggling.   In 2 years time we will be a force to contend with irrespective of how our elder players go.

I think we all expected a bit of pain but....

Did anyone think we'd be last 3 years after the start of the rebuild?
With our worst percentage in over a hundred years and an equal worst ever win/ loss record for the season.
And the least number of goals kicked in a season since the competition moved to a 22 game season.


Selling that in 2015 would have been a "hard sell"

Re: If Not BB, Who?

Reply #237 –
Quote from: Lods on
I think we all expected a bit of pain but....

Did anyone think we'd be last 3 years after the start of the rebuild?
With our worst percentage in over a hundred years and an equal worst ever win/ loss record for the season.
And the least number of goals kicked in a season since the competition moved to a 22 game season.


Selling that in 2015 would have been a "hard sell"

Probably why we've heard nary a peep out of anyone from CFC these last 3 years - there's not much to say. "We said 3 years, so we'll see y'all in 2019."

Re: If Not BB, Who?

Reply #238 –
Quick question....Did the club put a time frame on it.

Somewhere along the way I remember there was talk about it being a 66 game rebuild.
From memory it was a comment attributed to Stephen Silvagni but.....
I don't think that was ever a timeline.
Can anyone produce a 'direct quote' from any club source saying 3 yrs/66 games.

Re: If Not BB, Who?

Reply #239 –
Quote from: Lods on
Quick question....Did the club put a time frame on it.

Somewhere along the way I remember there was talk about it being a 66 game rebuild.
From memory it was a comment attributed to Stephen Silvagni but.....
I don't think that was ever a timeline.
Can anyone produce a 'direct quote' from any club source saying 3 yrs/66 games.

I'm pretty sure that this was discussed in another thread, and somebody produced a quote. Not sure though. The talk in the media was that it was an "internal" limit, not sure if the club ever confirmed. Bolton has mentioned once or twice in his 3 pressers this season that he now has the list he wants, so i guess by inference the rebuild is over.