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Topic: If Not BB, Who? (Read 62241 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: If Not BB, Who?

Reply #345 –
The list changes are not unprecedented.

Actually Malthouse chopped a heap of players in his short time with us and it wasn't allowed to be used as an excuse.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: If Not BB, Who?

Reply #346 –
Quote from: PaulP on
The strategy that was put in place with Bolton, SOS et al was for long term success. This was made very clear at the beginning. What was hidden from view (for obvious reasons) was that by extension, this meant short term pain. The strategy may succeed brilliantly, or it may be an epic fail. We simply don't know. We need to see it through. Stage 1, which is the 3 year rebuild, is now done. Stage 2 has to be allowed to play out first.

I would have thought we should get the best coach available.
If they review Bolton's position and think he is not up to it, are you suggesting we should keep him, simply because we are in a rebuild?
 

Re: If Not BB, Who?

Reply #347 –
Quote from: JonHenry on
I would have thought we should get the best coach available.
If they review Bolton's position and think he is not up to it, are you suggesting we should keep him, simply because we are in a rebuild?

Sacking the coach now or this season is the soft option, weak as piss.

If they do have have a proper review, they will find Bolton is fine. Nothing surer.

Re: If Not BB, Who?

Reply #348 –
Quote from: PaulP on
Sacking the coach now or this season is the soft option, weak as piss.

If they do have have a proper review, they will find Bolton is fine. Nothing surer.

Paul, that is a massive call.
How would you know that?
It is simply your opinion.

He is either the best person for the job or he isn't.

Re: If Not BB, Who?

Reply #349 –
Quote from: JonHenry on
I would have thought we should get the best coach available.
If they review Bolton's position and think he is not up to it, are you suggesting we should keep him, simply because we are in a rebuild?
Ol' mate Dick Pratt used to say "if they are available, they aren't the best".
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: If Not BB, Who?

Reply #350 –
We should closely scrutinise what future BB may have with us but after season's end. Do we really want to completely write off another year by installing a caretaker again?
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: If Not BB, Who?

Reply #351 –
Quote from: laj on
https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/amid-concerns-about-his-coaching-style-carltons-brendon-bolton-must-embrace-his-inner-nathan-buckley-writes-tom-morris/news-story/ca370d5d7e7883c47726e677d8b0e76e?fbclid=IwAR0TXNZGc-RTlJoFA4xy8urZNOobd027juMYMNh9xpk_YYWkZvIdGCxHnxs

I actually think it is a very good article.

I made the point some time ago that I thought BB was a control freak which is characterized by micromanagement and over explaining/teaching (comes from fear rather than trust). I actually think it's pretty damn obvious. But we cut him (BB) slack because he's lovable, which I've attempted to also point out, much to the disdain of some. If BB was a cantankerous character like, say MM, then many who are defending BB would be calling for his head.

Our blokes play confused and when you do that you see dumb, dumb decisions. Too many thoughts and instructions whizzing through the cranium.

A good example is John Worsfold, whose style is the antithesis of BB. He puts it on the players so everything on field is player driven. The BB style -- over coaching -- creates dependence on the senior coach which is good for the senior coach's ego but bad for the development of said player/team.

Rottingwood's success doesn't come on the back of 'sticking fat' with the senior coach... nuh, it comes on the back of a thorough and objective analysis and appraisal of Buckley's style... another intense control freak. Ditto Dimma. The senior coach's changed their styles... showed more trust in those around them and apportioned more responsibility to those around them.






Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: If Not BB, Who?

Reply #352 –
Quote from: cookie2 on
We should closely scrutinise what future BB may have with us but after season's end. Do we really want to completely write off another year by installing a caretaker again?

These are my thoughts too.

I saw a collective group slump to the ground at the end of the Gold Coast match.
They were hurting.
If they weren't buying what the coach was selling and wanted him gone the result wouldn't have mattered
I haven't seen  signs that Bolton has lost this group.
I'm not even sure he has lost majority support among  members and supporters.

Sacking Bolton mid-season is futile.
The caretaker route hasn't worked for us in the recent past.
I know in previous games winning the matches after a coach replacement was not a priority, but the worst thing would be to install a caretaker who had a bit of success at the end of the year as things started to come together...and than appointing that person on a permanent basis.
We've passed the playing players for development stage.
We're not playing for Pick 1....
winning games is now a priority

Let Bolton see the season out and give him the chance to get some evidence to support his case.
Then if changes are to be made, let them be made at the end of the year when options for replacements open up.

Re: If Not BB, Who?

Reply #353 –
Quote from: madbluboy on
The list changes are not unprecedented.

Actually Malthouse chopped a heap of players in his short time with us and it wasn't allowed to be used as an excuse.

Firstly, he didn't do it three seasons running.

Secondly, he didn't do it as a newbie coach with a newbie assistant coaching department, newbie MC and a newbie administration. He brought in some older experienced heads, on-field(like Thomas and Everitt) and off-field(His various assistants), then cut a bunch of blokes(other than Laidler) who were not getting a game anyway, yet he did no better than BB!

In MMs 2nd season he cut/retired/traded seven including, Waite, Robinson, Scotland and Garlett to bring in four which were Dick, Jaksch, Whiley and Jones, if not for Jones that's almost a 100% bust!

It's hard if not impossible to claim the list MM built had a better long term finals outlook than the current list, it might even be laughable to make that claim. Fans could almost claim some of those changes have contributed to our short term pain, they were certainly not positives!

It's was nothing like what we have done recently!
The Force Awakens!

Re: If Not BB, Who?

Reply #354 –
It's pretty clear the recruiting during the Ratten era is how we got in this mess. Malthouse was coaching in finals and grand finals while we were picking up dud after dud while thinking we were contenders.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: If Not BB, Who?

Reply #355 –
Quote from: madbluboy on
It's pretty clear the recruiting during the Ratten era is how we got in this mess. Malthouse was coaching in finals and grand finals while we were picking up dud after dud while thinking we were contenders.

You can't pick and chose who to blame if you are using recruitment as a measure of coaching, it's all or none.

MM's era was as bad if not worse than any others, and he doesn't get to use the excuse of inexperience, which suggests his time was even worse! :o
The Force Awakens!

Re: If Not BB, Who?

Reply #356 –
Wayne Brittain   46   18   28   0   39.13   2001–2002
Denis Pagan   104   25   77   2   24.04   2003–2007
Brett Ratten   120   60   59   1   50.00   2007–2012
Mick Malthouse   54   20   33   1   37.04   2013–2015
John Barker   13   3   10   0   23.08   2015
Brendon Bolton   44   13   31   0   29.55   2016–

Coaches since Parkin in 2000. Games, wins, losses, draws.
Ratten 50%- not good enough, sack the coach.
Malthouse 37% sack the coach
Barker (caretaker)
Bolton 29%- ???

Can we see a common theme here?
We are changing coaches like we should be changing underwear and it's getting us worse as a result.
But, by all means, lets sack another coach...

Re: If Not BB, Who?

Reply #357 –
Quote from: JonHenry on
Paul, that is a massive call.
How would you know that?
It is simply your opinion.

He is either the best person for the job or he isn't.

So what's wrong with a massive call ? The whole rebuild is a massive call. Is a strong opinion less valid than a weak one ?

Supporters of all clubs are very jumpy and very reactionary, and whatever expertise they bring to discussions occurs after the fact. And I include myself in this. One week Buckley and Dimma were both gone, now they're the bees knees. One week Bevo is the ants pants - now after 2 ordinary seasons, the Dogs are mid table battlers, and Bevo looks like a mid table battler. This week, Fagan is the greatest, Bolton is the worst. If we win our next 5, and the Lions lose the next 5, then the coaches swap status. And on it goes. The past is only partly relevant, because any opinions based on that are too late.

We need some real expertise to see the future, based on successful clubs, based on precedents, based on analysis etc. Not just black one week, white the next.

Re: If Not BB, Who?

Reply #358 –
Quote from: PaulP on
We need some real expertise to see the future, based on successful clubs, based on precedents, based on analysis etc. Not just black one week, white the next.

The problem looking at history is that the game is changing dynamically, leaving only parts of history with any relevance!
What about Pagan's comments, is his JSoS opinion correct even if his heart is not pure?

I would say Pagan's suggestion JSoS should move is possibly valid purely from a football perspective. But I'm not sure about Pagan's motives, he could just be sticking it to a few who stuck it to him! Pagan knows what it would do to the likes of Mathieson and Elliott, let alone the Silvagni family, to see a Silvagni running around at the Filth, Ferals or Cheats! No doubt about that!

PS; I don't think Liddle and LoGuidice are that gullible, it would cost the club 10k members, so the Silvagni experiment is an exercise in boom or bust we must see through!
The Force Awakens!

Re: If Not BB, Who?

Reply #359 –
Paul I don't think you can accuse our fans of being "jumpy" after our last 17 years.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!