The return of the Prodigal Sons: with such a strong link between GWS and Carlton now, it will be interesting to see how we go, who stands up, and who makes the other regret their decisions.
The game is in Sydney at Spotless at 1635 in the afternoon. It will not be on free to air TV: I can barely remember the last time we were.
If we play like we did last week we won't get within 15 goals.
If we play like we did last week we won't get within 15 goals.
True!
Danger game.
I've watched the replay, we really lacked leadership in the absence of Murphy.
His contribution is under-rated by supporters.
After this week our list looks much stronger.
I've watched the replay, we really lacked leadership in the absence of Murphy.
His contribution is under-rated by supporters.
After this week our list looks must stronger.
I don't think Wayne Carey could have inspired the boys last week, they were thinking about their bye week holidays.
I don't think Wayne Carey could have inspired the boys last week, they were thinking about their bye week holidays.
Yes I think you are correct, we looked way off the pace.
On a side note, a lot of posters criticised Weitering, but given our lack of midfield pressure and the open spaces inside F50 it's no wondering Membrey kicked a bag. Plus Weitering did all he could to force Membrey into the pocket in an otherwise open F50, but he still dobbed those shots. The problem was the lack of defensive run in the midfield and it's the first time I have seen that this season. Docherty and Simpson did their best to cover for it but it was never going to be enough.
Liked some of Sumner's work in the midfield, Gibb's was tagged out of it, Cripps got burnt a few times by team-mates not making use of him.
If Mumford doesn't make it back it will be a closer game than many people suspect.
If we play like we did last week we won't get within 15 goals.
On the bright side, last time we played like last week we turned around and beat Geelong thee next week.
Can only hope.
I'm confident that with a couple of weeks rest we will go pretty hard at WCE.
Yes I think you are correct, we looked way off the pace.
On a side note, a lot of posters criticised Weitering, but given our lack of midfield pressure and the open spaces inside F50 it's no wondering Membrey kicked a bag. Plus Weitering did all he could to force Membrey into the pocket in an otherwise open F50, but he still dobbed those shots. The problem was the lack of defensive run in the midfield and it's the first time I have seen that this season. Docherty and Simpson did their best to cover for it but it was never going to be enough.
Liked some of Sumner's work in the midfield, Gibb's was tagged out of it, Cripps got burnt a few times by team-mates not making use of him.
If Mumford doesn't make it back it will be a closer game than many people suspect.
Agree it wasnt all Weitering's fault as there wasnt much pressure from our mids to try and disturb the ball coming in but Membrey had 17 possies and 10 marks which is a lot of ball for a forward.....
Membrey is a bit like Jay Schultz in mode of operation and as we saw he doesnt need many kicks to hurt you on the scoreboard as he is very accurate...he pushed off Weitering a few times which allowed him to get the break on the lead..a stronger more developed player woudnt have allowed that but we forget our man is still a kid and after a couple more preseasons he will be the one doing the pushing as he gets stronger.
Weitering also maybe isnt suited to the 3rd tall quick on the lead type as I thought Membrey probably had a little bit more leg speed and our bloke had trouble keeping up with him...Rhys Stanley in the Geelong game also worried JW with his agility and speed and I think the coach needs to be more careful with his matchups and look after Wetering a bit more.
Simon White was probably a better match IMO and the move of him forward failed so I reckon it was a poor day in the coaching box allround..
Agree it wasnt all Weitering's fault as there wasnt much pressure from our mids to try and disturb the ball coming in but Membrey had 17 possies and 10 marks which is a lot of ball for a forward.....
Membrey is a bit like Jay Schultz in mode of operation and as we saw he doesnt need many kicks to hurt you on the scoreboard as he is very accurate...he pushed off Weitering a few times which allowed him to get the break on the lead..a stronger more developed player woudnt have allowed that but we forget our man is still a kid and after a couple more preseasons he will be the one doing the pushing as he gets stronger.
Weitering also maybe isnt suited to the 3rd tall quick on the lead type as I thought Membrey probably had a little bit more leg speed and our bloke had trouble keeping up with him...Rhys Stanley in the Geelong game also worried JW with his agility and speed and I think the coach needs to be more careful with his matchups and look after Wetering a bit more.
Simon White was probably a better match IMO and the move of him forward failed so I reckon it was a poor day in the coaching box allround..
Membrey made Weitering focus on trying to stop him getting the ball. That meant Weitering couldn't zone off and take his trademark intercept marks. It also disrupted our team defence.
Our defence functioned adequately when Weitering was moved forward and I think that shows that Bolton's multiple role approach is working. However, it does suggest that Bolton should have changed the matchups a little sooner. As you say EB, Bolton should be looking after Weitering while he is developing. That said, it is probably important that Bolton gives Weitering a reasonable time to get on top of his opponent.
Danger game. For them!
go blues
Watching them against the Bombers...They're definitely beatable ;) :D
Membrey made Weitering focus on trying to stop him getting the ball. That meant Weitering couldn't zone off and take his trademark intercept marks. It also disrupted our team defence.
Our defence functioned adequately when Weitering was moved forward and I think that shows that Bolton's multiple role approach is working. However, it does suggest that Bolton should have changed the matchups a little sooner. As you say EB, Bolton should be looking after Weitering while he is developing. That said, it is probably important that Bolton gives Weitering a reasonable time to get on top of his opponent.
Our defensive pressure was simply way short of the required level. Our mids, when they have a bad one, have a REALLY bad one....
Need to pick up 2 or 3 more quality mids.....maybe a mature ager even.
And quick is nice but being able to get your hands on the pill is better!
Boys just need to crack in and leave nothing on the field. Saints game was a little aberration going by the season performance so I expect them to give GWS a fright.
GWS were pretty ordinary versus CheatsFC, they won't do that again, but it shows you just how important Mumford and Johnson are to that side.
Plus, it looks to me like a few of their players are carrying injuries, add that to a potentially unfit Mumford or Johnson and it will make for an interesting game next weekend.
Would they rush back two 30 year olds for one game they think they will win, when they are only one week out from them having a three week mid-season rest? If they are planning for Sept no, if they are worried about form and fitness maybe.
GWS were pretty ordinary versus CheatsFC, they won't do that again, but it shows you just how important Mumford and Johnson are to that side.
Plus, it looks to me like a few of their players are carrying injuries, add that to a potentially unfit Mumford or Johnson and it will make for an interesting game next weekend.
Would they rush back two 30 year olds for one game they think they will win, when they are only one week out from them having a three week mid-season rest? If they are planning for Sept no, if they are worried about form and fitness maybe.
Very true. Unfortunately, it will make things harder for us: they may ACTUALLY TAKE US MORE SERIOUSLY. Not sure we are ready for that yet.
It will make for interesting thoughts at GWS this week. :)
I think we have battled quite valiantly for 3 months of this year, and that we are probably overdue for a bit of a flat spot that will last a few weeks minimum.
Lets not forget, I dont believe we have had a win after a buy since we started having them again.
Lets not forget, I dont believe we have had a win after a buy since we started having them again.
We beat Port at the 'G last year after our bye week :D
^^
Oops. Missed that one, but I think prior to that we have always been flat off the bye...
We shall see.
One piece of bad news from this week's Injury Update is that Armfield is out for probably 3 more weeks with a groin injury. He picked that up against St Kilda, but things were kept reasonably quiet until today. Not sure why, but we do appear to like playing ducks and drakes with selection news.
Murphy is not going as well as we had hoped and will not be available for probably 3 more weeks. That really hurts our midfield, which has been pretty ordinary since he went down.
With Armfield going out, the chances of Silvagni getting his 1st game re looking pretty good. He may not be the sort of player Armfield is, but he offers something we don't have a lot of at the moment: footy smarts. That said, the club may wait until next week at the MCG against the Meat Pies.
Then again, the cub may well decide to be ultra conservative and keep him in the VFL. If that is the case, then at least we will see him in TV! :)
Gorringe will probably make way for Phillips, who played extremely well last round in the VFL. Similarly, it is highly probable that Korchek will play for the NBs this week: another excellent reason to watch the game. :) He had 62 hit outs last time.
We BADLY need some work on our midfield set-up. Even with Phillips and Kreuzer going around, if we can't get the ball out of the middle we will be murdered. The last 2 weeks have been awful in the centre square.
Other changes are interesting possibilities: Jaksch and Liam Jones both showed a fair bit in the VFL, while Tutt has played some of his best football.
It will be interesting to see way the selectors jump.
I think they have to play Tutt this week with Dennis going out, we desperately need some speed into the side, he offers this and is getting plenty of the pill in the 2's.
I would not like the club to "Blood" SOJ against the Pies....I don't want another "Jack Watts" incident against that mob...I reckon they would do it too...Pr..ks >:(
I think they have to play Tutt this week with Dennis going out, we desperately need some speed into the side, he offers this and is getting plenty of the pill in the 2's.
I would not like the club to "Blood" SOJ against the Pies....I don't want another "Jack Watts" incident against that mob...I reckon they would do it too...Pr..ks >:(
In can understand why you feel that way. SOJ is an 18 year old kid whose fitness is his biggest drawback. The club may decide to play safe: we don't really lose anything from it except the chance to see the future come to pass. Getting fitter and kicking more goals won't hurt him at all.
I'd keep BOB in the twos for a while longer......rather play Buckley than Tutt....
In can understand why you feel that way. SOJ is an 18 year old kid whose fitness is his biggest drawback. The club may decide to play safe: we don't really lose anything from it except the chance to see the future come to pass. Getting fitter and kicking more goals won't hurt him at all.
As I have said probably far too many times recently, I don't think SOJ has the required match fitness yet. However, I wouldn't hold him back for fear of a torrid reception. He showed against Essendon in the NAB game that he can look after himself and is not afraid to fly the flag for his team mates. I suspect that 2016 version of Carlton would look after SOJ a lot better than the 2009 version of Melbourne responded to the treatment of Watts.
Buckley and Tutt are the most likely replacements for Armfield and Tutt has the runs on the board in terms of VFL form. The question is whether he can reproduce that form in the AFL. I think we'll find out on Saturday.
Phillips has to be a monty to come in and Gorringe is the logical player to make way - unless he stays in as a tall forward. Jones and Jaksch have to be in the frame for a recall but who would go out? I think Walker and Everitt are safe.
The bloke I'd really like to see get a run is Billy Gowers, but I don't think that will happen just yet.
I reckon you're a bit harsh on Tutt there Elwood, he's been busting his guts in the 2's all year, Dylan 1 game back from suspension after an undisciplined act...and his numbers aren't great in the 2's either.
Only just realized it is Gibbs' 200th. I know he has many detractors, but wish him all the best and I hope that the club lifts and wins for him in his milestone game.
I reckon you're a bit harsh on Tutt there Elwood, he's been busting his guts in the 2's all year, Dylan 1 game back from suspension after an undisciplined act...and his numbers aren't great in the 2's either.
Fair enough Crazy....I am a hard marker and while I take your point about Tutt playing well in the 2's I dont see much future in him and have mentally stamped his papers
not to be played in the seniors again. I guess vs GWS it probably wont make much difference who plays but I'd like to beat Collingwood and dont fancy having him in the team for that game...we will miss Armfield.
Only just realized it is Gibbs' 200th. I know he has many detractors, but wish him all the best and I hope that the club lifts and wins for him in his milestone game.
Yes, we need him at his best and a win would make his 200th more memorable.
Congratulations to Gibbs on his 200th.
I hope he has a cracker like he did against the cats, and like Simmo/Jamo milestone game - we come away with the victory (nothing wrong with optimism - hey we've got nothing to lose). Would love to see Gibbs overwhelmed with Navy pride and joy like Simmo was.
Go Blues.
Congratulations to Gibbs on his 200th.
I hope he has a cracker like he did against the cats, and like Simmo/Jamo milestone game - we come away with the victory (nothing wrong with optimism - hey we've got nothing to lose). Would love to see Gibbs overwhelmed with Navy pride and joy like Simmo was.
Go Blues.
Yep - all the best to Gibbs. Another 3 Brownlow votes and a BOG please.
Congrats on reaching 200.
I don't want another "Jack Watts" incident against that mob...
What was that "incident" actually? He ran onto the field and got pushed a bit then proceeded to play rubbish for the next 5 years as a result.
Is it not more likely that he was just vastly over-rated to begin with?
With our half forward flank in Armfield getting injured the selection panel has to look at our seconds and think - hmm - who is playing well that can play HFF? Is it the guy who kicked 8 in the last 2 weeks as a HFF?
I don't think they can go too far beyond that in your selection process. If you do you're compromising the it and potentially demoralise the guy who deserves a game.
Who is selected will indeed be interesting this week, especially where the likes of Buckley, Tutt, Jones and Jaksch are concerned, If they are in the plans for next year you would think they'd need to be cracking a game soon. Jack of course is another story - if he's ready then maybe this game may well be his chance to debut.
If the club is going to treat Jack like any other player (which they should), then he comes in when he's ready. I wouldn't save it up for a home game against the pies. To me it reeks of special treatment (and maybe a little marketing exercise to maybe boost gate takings for our home game vs the pies).
On the other hand, each player is different, so each should be treated as the individuals that they are. Everybody knows a Silvagni's first game for the club is a big deal, and to avoid heaping too much pressure on the young fella, maybe it's better to get his first game out of the way up at GWS, in front of a smaller crowd. Let him get his nerves out of the way there a little bit, and then rip the pies a new one at the G the week after (pretty optimistic i must admit).
He must have talent, you don't consistently kick good bags of goals in the VFL if you can't play, so he's got that covered. The coaches will know where his match fitness is at, and his ability to also do the team defensive stuff. To me, they should determine when he's ready for seniors based on that, just as much as on his ability to kick goals. You notice the good teams over the years bring in new players who slot straight in, and you wonder where the hell they keep getting talented youngsters from. I think it helps that they bring them into good systems, but only when they are ready to play their part.
Fingers crossed he's ready! When I was a young fella my Carlton jumper had number 1 on the back. I'll be stoked, just like everybody else on here, if Jack has half the talent of his old man.
If the club is going to treat Jack like any other player (which they should), then he comes in when he's ready. I wouldn't save it up for a home game against the pies. To me it reeks of special treatment (and maybe a little marketing exercise to maybe boost gate takings for our home game vs the pies).
On the other hand, each player is different, so each should be treated as the individuals that they are. Everybody knows a Silvagni's first game for the club is a big deal, and to avoid heaping too much pressure on the young fella, maybe it's better to get his first game out of the way up at GWS, in front of a smaller crowd. Let him get his nerves out of the way there a little bit, and then rip the pies a new one at the G the week after (pretty optimistic i must admit).
He must have talent, you don't consistently kick good bags of goals in the VFL if you can't play, so he's got that covered. The coaches will know where his match fitness is at, and his ability to also do the team defensive stuff. To me, they should determine when he's ready for seniors based on that, just as much as on his ability to kick goals. You notice the good teams over the years bring in new players who slot straight in, and you wonder where the hell they keep getting talented youngsters from. I think it helps that they bring them into good systems, but only when they are ready to play their part.
Fingers crossed he's ready! When I was a young fella my Carlton jumper had number 1 on the back. I'll be stoked, just like everybody else on here, if Jack has half the talent of his old man.
I have watched Jack play half a NAB game against Essendon and last week's VFL game against Box Hill and he certainly has talent. He also makes good decisions and he gives the impression of having more time than other players. I have no doubt that he has the ability to succeed at AFL level.
I think that he will come in when he's ready, and when he deserves a spot in the 22. I suspect that it won't be for a while, but it can't be too far off. While I haven't agreed with all of the selection decisions this season, I have confidence that the match committee will get it right with SOJ (and Jaksch, Charlie Curnow, McKay and Gowers).
The other point being ignored, is that sometimes blokes get a chance before they are ready through lack of other viable alternatives for that role.
Silvagni might get his chance simply because he is doing more than everyone else to earn it, even if he isnt yet ready to own it full time, and will be nursed through it accordingly so that his exposure to negative time at AFL level is minimised.
i.e. we have a lot of players on the list, who can forgo their rotation to give Silvagni a couple extra to get him through the game once he is there.
He will get there off his own work before making that choice, and it seems as though he isnt far off. Time will tell, but I am confident that even if he does get an early one it wont be to his detriment.
The other point being ignored, is that sometimes blokes get a chance before they are ready through lack of other viable alternatives for that role.
Silvagni might get his chance simply because he is doing more than everyone else to earn it, even if he isnt yet ready to own it full time, and will be nursed through it accordingly so that his exposure to negative time at AFL level is minimised.
i.e. we have a lot of players on the list, who can forgo their rotation to give Silvagni a couple extra to get him through the game once he is there.
He will get there off his own work before making that choice, and it seems as though he isnt far off. Time will tell, but I am confident that even if he does get an early one it wont be to his detriment.
From what I saw at Box Hill Thry, SOJ managed about 60-70% game time. I think we'd struggle to cover that, particularly at AFL intensity.
From what I saw at Box Hill Thry, SOJ managed about 60-70% game time. I think we'd struggle to cover that, particularly at AFL intensity.
@ Thry
Letting others carry some of his load Thry? Now you wouldn't want him to be a passenger would you?
Whilst we're all keen to see Jack debut, it should only be done if he can make a real contribution to helping us win, with appropriate match ups, appropriate support from team mates etc. He's not a novelty act.
I would have thought, given that GWS have elite running ability, and an elite midfield, our mids will be struggling to get first use, and will spend most of the day watching blue and orange ars#s sprinting away. Jack is unlikely to see much action, and I think there are more suitable teams against which he can debut. Injuries to Murph and Army are clearly inopportune.
Let him start in the boys department, then work his way up to the men's.
Unless injuries to our forward line actually force us to select him.
@ Thry
Letting others carry some of his load Thry? Now you wouldn't want him to be a passenger would you?
Not at all, its literally the boys embracing a culture of TEAM.
If you go to war with a soldier that isnt as capable as everyone else, you help them until they rise to your standard by making certain sacrifices.
@DJC I think the boys will be okay as shown against Geelong when we were down to effectively zero bench and fought it out.
Not at all, its literally the boys embracing a culture of TEAM.
If you go to war with a soldier that isnt as capable as everyone else, you help them until they rise to your standard by making certain sacrifices.
@DJC I think the boys will be okay as shown against Geelong when we were down to effectively zero bench and fought it out.
Sure but if you've got fully trained and fit front line soldiers available you wouldn't be sending in the cadets surely?
Not at all, its literally the boys embracing a culture of TEAM.
If you go to war with a soldier that isnt as capable as everyone else, you help them until they rise to your standard by making certain sacrifices.
@DJC I think the boys will be okay as shown against Geelong when we were down to effectively zero bench and fought it out.
Possibly Thry but I doubt whether we'd go into a game with a player who can't run it out. Imagine if one of the fit players against Geelong wasn't match fit.
Over the last few seasons with the sub rule, new players or players returning after injury could be eased in. Now it's all or nothing.
As others have said, SOJ will play when the MC decides he's ready. I don't think he is but I'm not on the MC :)
I doubt whether we'd go into a game with a player who can't run it out.
As others have said, SOJ will play when the MC decides he's ready. I don't think he is but I'm not on the MC :)
Hard to convince people DJC that it's a marathon not a sprint and if kids aren't ready (physically, mentally, tank wise etc etc) then don't push them.
I hope SOJ plays in the NB so that people can get a realistic look at how he performs. Even then you don't see the condition he comes off the ground after some rather short stints.
Hard to convince people DJC that it's a marathon not a sprint and if kids aren't ready (physically, mentally, tank wise etc etc) then don't push them.
I hope SOJ plays in the NB so that people can get a realistic look at how he performs. Even then you don't see the condition he comes off the ground after some rather short stints.
I take his condition when he comes off as a positive; he leaves nothing in the bank when he's out there :)
Sure but if you've got fully trained and fit front line soldiers available you wouldn't be sending in the cadets surely?
Not if the front-line soldiers won't die for you.
Possibly Thry but I doubt whether we'd go into a game with a player who can't run it out. Imagine if one of the fit players against Geelong wasn't match fit.
Over the last few seasons with the sub rule, new players or players returning after injury could be eased in. Now it's all or nothing.
As others have said, SOJ will play when the MC decides he's ready. I don't think he is but I'm not on the MC :)
It's ok provided everyone knows that they have earned their game.
FWIW
Outs Armfield, Gorringe, White and Everitt
Ins Tutt, Phillips, Jones and Jaksch
Explanations
Armfield for Tutt is a no-brainer imo as they are as about like for like as you'll get with pace on our list and Tutt can kick a goal. Tutt is quick and he has earned his shot in the seniors to see if he can make a decent fist of it. I hope he does make it but if he doesnt get a crack soon to prove something then his papers are surely stamped.
Gorringe for Phillips. Gorringe has shown that he is worth persevering with as a forward and maybe a big winger. Bottom line is Kreuze needs help against Mummy and Sauce will give MK a decent chop out
Probably wont happen but White and Everitt need a spell in the magoos and Jones deserves another shot. KJ has been kicking goals and can swing back if needed and i'd like to see him get a crack at his old side.
Blues by 7 :P
Tutt, Phillips in.
Gorringe, Armfield out.
Walker and Everitt should consider themselves blessed to still be in the side after their recent (non) performances.... I don't give a rat's toss bag about junk time goals, they need to perform when the heat is on.
I thought we were an outside chance if we came to play...
In Rhys Palmer, Shane Mumford, Steve Johnson
Maybe not.
In Tutt, out Armfield, it feels like 2003 revisited.
What happened to Boekhorst, he looked half decent?
In Tutt, out Armfield, it feels like 2003 revisited.
What happened to Boekhorst, he looked half decent?
Broken scaphoid and still a few weeks from resuming in the NBs.
Broken scaphoid and still a few weeks from resuming in the NBs.
Ouch!
At least he should have kept up his aerobic fitness though.
Lamb and Sumner are both going OK but Boekhorst seems to be a touch above either of them to me, not that he'll ever be a gun.
I think we'll get well beaten this weekend, their midfield is too quick and bats too deep.
GWS Giants
B: Heath Shaw, Phil Davis, Joel Patfull.
HB: Matt Buntine, Nick Haynes, Zac Williams.
C: Nathan Wilson, Ryan Griffen, Josh Kelly.
HF: Matthew Kennedy, Rory Lobb, Rhys Palmer.
F: Toby Greene, Jeremy Cameron, Dylan Shiel.
Foll: Shane Mumford, Callan Ward, Stephen Coniglio.
Int: Tom Scully, Steve Johnson, Jonathon Patton, Lachie Whitfield.
Emg: Jack Steele, Adam Tomlinson, Adam Kennedy
A very strong team on paper. Their scare last week made them play Johnson and Mumford, which is a big negative for us. However, hope springs eternal.
Carlton
B: Zach Tuohy, Jacob Weitering, Lachie Plowman.
HB: Dale Thomas, Sam Rowe, Sam Docherty.
C: Matthew Wright, Bryce Gibbs, Kade Simpson.
HF: Ed Curnow, Levi Casboult, Liam Sumner.
F: Andrew Walker, Andrejs Everitt, Sam Kerridge.
Foll: Matthew Kreuzer, Patrick Cripps, Jed Lamb.
Int: Andrew Phillips, Simon White, Ciaran Byrne, Jason Tutt.
Emg: Nick Graham, Jack Silvagni, Mark Whiley.
In: Andrew Phillips, Jason Tutt.
Out: Daniel Gorringe (Hip), Dennis Armfield (Groin)
Losing Armfield hurts. His pace and attack on the pill have been useful.
Walker and Everitt have been pretty lucky. Both were well below their best last time.
Tutt deserved a go.
I wonder what the ground will be like. This rain stuff has been falling quite a bit in Sydney.
Gee GWS look strong on paper.
Will be an almighty test for our boys, but just looking at the two teams i cant see us getting within 5 goals of them. But footy is a funny game.
If we bring the same pressure we brought against the cats for 4 quarters and never give up i'll be happy. Regardless of whether we win or lose im just hoping for a good contest and some more of those so called sprouts.
Hope Tutt repays the faith we have shown in him and starts to give us some decent, consistent games at senior level.
Would've been good to see Tomlinson, Marchbank, Stewart and Hoskin-Elliot in action as its no secret we are apparently heavily into those GWS fringe players again this year.
Its going to be sunny and 16 degrees with light wind tomorrow so conditions are perfect.
There must be questions marks over Mumford, Stevie J and Davis - three big players for them.
There must be questions marks over Mumford, Stevie J and Davis - three big players for them.
Agreed, I'll be surprised if all three play, feels like a bit of duck and drakes.