2018 Rd 6: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs

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Re: 2018 Rd 6: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs

Reply #90 – April 28, 2018, 04:23:27 pm

Over reaction from Rhys. Carlton fans have been pretty tolerant compared to the Pagan era.

Re: 2018 Rd 6: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs

Reply #91 – April 28, 2018, 04:29:03 pm

Quote from: madbluboy on April 28, 2018, 04:23:27 pm

Over reaction from Rhys. Carlton fans have been pretty tolerant compared to the Pagan era.

Carlton fans are entitled to be angry after 15 years of empty promises and failure, Rhys-Jones is being a bit precious if you ask me.

Re: 2018 Rd 6: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs

Reply #92 – April 28, 2018, 04:31:26 pm

Could be construed as a hissy fit, but I think he's making a "forest for the trees" argument, which is fair enough in my view.

Re: 2018 Rd 6: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs

Reply #93 – April 28, 2018, 04:38:09 pm

I respect his position but I would challenge the fact that because we may not have played the game our support and emotional investment in the club and team is any less than his or any other player.

We come to our positions from different backgrounds.
Some of us were born Blue.
Unlike many players it's the only club we've ever known
And having followed the side we're pretty aware of the sacrifices and dedication the players make.
But at the same time were also aware that the players and coaching staff are well compensated financially for those sacrifices....paid for in part by the very supporters being questioned.

I won't have anyone telling me the kind of supporter I should be.
You can command my respect through your deeds and performance, as DRJ did...but you cant demand my respect.

Folks being questioned are passionate for a reason...it's because they love the club and want it to be successful.
Simple as that!

Re: 2018 Rd 6: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs

Reply #94 – April 28, 2018, 04:42:11 pm

Quote from: blue4life on April 28, 2018, 04:29:03 pm

Carlton fans are entitled to be angry after 15 years of empty promises and failure, Rhys-Jones is being a bit precious if you ask me.

It has been a long long period of woe for CFC fans without a doubt and I understand the frustration. However, the way I see it, the reset of three years ago was the response of the club to those years of failure. A new direction was decided and it will be a long journey. We need to let that reset run its course before we get too uppity about it imo. Personally I'm hoping to see a bit of light getting through by the end of this season and the upward trajectory becoming much more visible next year. If those things are not happening by then I would be getting very concerned about our future and appropriate actions by the club would be justly expected.

Re: 2018 Rd 6: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs

Reply #95 – April 28, 2018, 05:43:14 pm

We had some pretty good players last night, but those who were not good were really bad.

[1] Jack had 8 possessions and every one was pretty good. However, we didn't kick it near him on the forward line. It might be an idea to play him in the middle for a while to get him into the play and work on his reflexes in close.

[2] Lachie Plowman is really struggling, and has all year. His confidence is down and he is being beaten in one on one contests. I'd like to drop him for a couple of weeks, but I don't think there is anyone to to replace him that is ready.

[3] I would not have played Marchbank. Like Plowman, he has struggled this year and the marks he has dropped (not to mention spoiling Jones yesterday: that was terrible) shows the lack of touch and the lack of confidence. He needs to time to get his touch and confidence back and he isn't going to do it getting flogged each week.

[4] SPS: for a guy who has such talent, SPS has really disappointed this year. he hasn't shown the intensity that he requires. He wasn't too bad in defence, where he had to work harder, but we really need him in the middle or forward and he is just not producing.

[5] Matty Wright is suffering from his worst patch of form since coming to us. He is struggling both in the air and at ground level: he hasn't snapped a goal since round #1.
Part of the problem is our poor forward work, but some of it is his lack of form and athleticism. However, unlike Adelaide, we cannot afford to drop him.

[6] Mullett: He was recruited as a spare part, but having to play him each week is showing how ordinary our list is at the moment. He is not the future. Not at all. When the pressure is on, he is missing.

[7] Cam O'Shea: another spare part who is finding senior football a bridge too far. He played reasonably yesterday, but his disposal was ordinary at best (and it wasn't 'best' very often). I understand that he is required at the moment, but I am disappointed that he hasn't really been able to step up.

[8] Matthew Kennedy: I know we need him in the mid field, but we do not need as he is at the moment, half fit and lacking confidence badly. His inability to get to contests has been crippling in the middle. He needs time to get himself right, because we have too many slow players at the moment.
Bring him back after the bye with a few 30+ possession games under his belt in the VFL and a better understanding with our rucks and he will be a better option. But at the moment his opponents are just burning him off and leaving him frustrated (not to mention the supporters).

I do not have a solution to our problems: our biggest issue is getting fit guys on the field. Then we need to run them into form. We have so much leadership sitting in the stands at the moment that it is very frustrating.

Re: 2018 Rd 6: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs

Reply #96 – April 28, 2018, 05:45:54 pm

Quote from: cookie2 on April 28, 2018, 04:42:11 pm

It has been a long long period of woe for CFC fans without a doubt and I understand the frustration. However, the way I see it, the reset of three years ago was the response of the club to those years of failure. A new direction was decided and it will be a long journey. We need to let that reset run its course before we get too uppity about it imo. Personally I'm hoping to see a bit of light getting through by the end of this season and the upward trajectory becoming much more visible next year. If those things are not happening by then I would be getting very concerned about our future and appropriate actions by the club would be justly expected.

Was a long period of woe for Richmond fans also, then 2017 happened. Difference between us and the other mobs which IMO causes all the angst amongst supporters is:
- we have the equal most premierships.
- premierships have always been expected at Carlton (we never made up the numbers).

Re: 2018 Rd 6: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs

Reply #97 – April 28, 2018, 05:51:58 pm

Quote from: Gointocarlton on April 28, 2018, 05:45:54 pm

Was a long period of woe for Richmond fans also, then 2017 happened. Difference between us and the other mobs which IMO causes all the angst amongst supporters is:
- we have the equal most premierships.
- premierships have always been expected at Carlton (we never made up the numbers).

I reckon that attitude is fast dissipating.

I used to feel sorry for St Kilda, Bulldogs and Melbourne supporters.
Thought it must be horrible to never know success....but more and more that is becoming us.
Supporters under 21 wouldn't know what it's like to be a successful club...that's bloody scary

Re: 2018 Rd 6: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs

Reply #98 – April 28, 2018, 05:57:35 pm

Bulldogs supporters around us last night were genuine smarta$$es, rubbed our noses in how bad we were at every opportunity, and there were plenty of opportunities

Re: 2018 Rd 6: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs

Reply #99 – April 28, 2018, 06:00:34 pm

Quote from: Lods on April 28, 2018, 05:51:58 pm

I reckon that attitude is fast dissipating.

You think so Lods? Maybe amongst the younger folk. I reckon deep in the bowels of PP and amongst the older, hard core supporters/benefactors, I reckon the attitude is as strong as ever hence the angst. Maybe its good in the sense that it drives the desire for success, bad if the shorted sightness kicks in and crape decisions get made due to impatience.

Re: 2018 Rd 6: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs

Reply #100 – April 28, 2018, 06:05:16 pm

Quote from: Jack Burton on April 28, 2018, 05:57:35 pm

Bulldogs supporters around us last night were genuine smarta$$es, rubbed our noses in how bad we were at every opportunity, and there were plenty of opportunities

They probably haven't forgotten our one time President calling them a tragedy, I don't think that I would if I was a Footscray supporter.
We honestly shouldn't expect much sympathy.

Re: 2018 Rd 6: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs

Reply #101 – April 28, 2018, 06:06:56 pm

Quote from: Gointocarlton on April 28, 2018, 04:08:34 pm

Old mate David Rhys-Jones hit a few btw he eyes on the way out with this post on a FB page. Love the passion Ol Boy

I used to think this page was for true blue Carlton supporters, not a bunch of whingers. None of you have played a game or have any real knowledge of the sacrifices and dedication made by a lot of good people, but are self appointed experts. After the last couple of weeks of bitching and moaning, I am happily going to unfollow this thread. Look up the meaning of supporter some of you fickle keyboard warriors. I’m sure in a couple of years when we have 50+ games into these kids and start climbing up the ladder, you so called experts will be claiming some sort of justification of knowing it would happen. I will continue to SUPPORT the club, it’s players, coaches and administration, not take the easy way out and throwing insults and derogatory comments at good people who are doing there best to get this club it’s 17th premiership. See ya

Tells me that Rhys is also frustrated, but lashing out at supporters who are lashing out at the club, won't do much good for anyone.

Rhys loves the place, and we love him and what he did at the Mighty CFC and maybe he is privy to info that we aren't which helps him be patient.

But... supporters of this once mighty club have been shockingly betrayed over almost 20 years by poor management on all levels (well, except for marketing/PR), so forgive us if we're somewhat cynical.

Funny how we were sold a 'reset' to begin with and now it's a fully fledged rebuild... (which is necessary). Should have been: 1st two years - demolition. 3rd year onward - rebuild then reset then...

The media is talking us up and that we're on the right track - that worries me. I do remain optimistic that the 2nd half of the year will show everyone something to get legitimately excited about.

Re: 2018 Rd 6: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs

Reply #102 – April 28, 2018, 06:12:19 pm

Quote from: Gointocarlton on April 28, 2018, 06:00:34 pm

You think so Lods? Maybe amongst the younger folk. I reckon deep in the bowels of PP and amongst the older, hard core supporters/benefactors, I reckon the attitude is as strong as ever hence the angst. Maybe its good in the sense that it drives the desire for success, bad if the shorted sightness kicks in and crape decisions get made due to impatience.

I've seen eight flags.
Countless finals appearances and successful seasons.
....and yes I'm angry.
I think of what a Barassi would have thought of some of our recent efforts and the punishment he would have dealt out in subsequent training sessions.

But this isn't 1968.
Its 2018
It's a different era.

I'm not sold on the rebuild for one simple reason....I don't see the results.
And unless you're Nostradamus...nobody does!
And I won't be convinced until I do.
But that's me and to each his own.

Re: 2018 Rd 6: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs

Reply #103 – April 28, 2018, 06:26:58 pm

A lot of our present problems are structural and we have struggled to with form and fitness to boot.

In the last draft our first thought was to get new midfielders. Hence the drafting of Dow and O'Brien. Both have shown a bit, although not as much as we hoped. But their time is in a year or two.

We traded for Kennedy and Lang, who were to be pillars of our midfield and who would replace Gibbs. Not a bad idea, but injury has screwed both of them up. We may not see them at their best for us until next year.
Lang hasn't played a game yet and Kennedy has played when he should not. They need time to get them right. But it means that we have a big hole in the midfield that we didn't expect to have.

We miss Murphy. The idea is to have him play forward a bit more often, as he does offer a fair bit as a goal kicker, while have the younger guys come through.
Well, the younger guys are not there yet and Murphy has been basically injured all year. He may not get back to full fitness until next year.
Hole in the midfield #2.

I do know that we were negotiating with Kelly to come over from South Freo. Geelong gesumped us and grabbed him at #31. He is not playing very well for Geelong.

Now consider our midfield with fit versions of Kennedy, Murphy and Lang, and with another good mid in Kelly.
Looks a bit different, doesn't it!

I gather that was our plan during the trade/draft period last year.

We showed our hand somewhat in the pre-season when we played Cripps forward. It was clear that plan was to cover our small forward problem with guys like Cripps, Lang and Murphy spending time forward.
Hmmmmmm.

Our defence has also been hit by poor form and injury. Alex Silvagni, for example, for probably planned to take a key defensive role until Rowe was available, leaving Jones to play a more attacking role from defence.
Whoopsies.
At this point Silvagni has struggled with injury and did not complete his only VFL game. Rowe has come back and had to stand up. He has, and great credit to him, but it was clearly not the plan to threw him in at the deep end, nor to have Jones against players that do not suit his style.
Notice the vast improvement in Jones as soon as Rowe returned.

Then there has been the form and fitness of Weitering, Marchbank and Plowman. All of these had extra pressure due to Docherty not being available. None has stood up so far. None have been 100% fit.
But we haven't been able to play guys like Williamson (probably our most athletic defender) because of injury. I am not sure what is going on with MacReadie at the moment. But it would be nice if he could step up.

Our plans did not foresee these players not producing.

Nor did our plans foresee the relative failures of Mullett and O'Shea.

The ruck. Kreuzer was fit for most of the game against Richmond, and has not been since. We fell against Richmond when Kreuzer got injured, as he was in excellent form. He has not been since.
At the time our backup ruckmen were also not available. Through injury. One of them has still not been able to get through a single VFL game.
On the other hand, Phillips, who did have a couple of games in the VFL, has played quite well since his return.
However, he is not Kreuzer.

This is also something our recruiting and planning did not foresee.

Last and not least, the small forward position. We recruited Garlett and hoped leBois would fill in this role. We had Pickett, who was improving every week and looking particularly dangerous.
We had SPS, whom we hoped would spend time forward and in the midfield.
Pickett broke his scaphoid and will miss half the year and probably not retur to his best form until 2019. Garlett and SPS have shown glimpses, but have not done enough and have not worked hard enough.
Again, not what was planned in the pre-season.

Now, none of these are fatal, but we do not have the dpeth yet to cover all the injuries we have and the problems that produces. Certainly a number of players playing poorly would probably be playing better with more talent around them. They have tried to step up and have been found wanting so far.
Not good, but that is where we are at.

As Bolton pointed out, we have increased the number of youngsters each year of our rebuild. We started with 2 - 4 per week. We went to 4 - 6 each week last year. We now have between 10 and 13 per week. That is a massive amount of experience to have missing. Fro last year's B&F, four of the top 5 players are not available. Only Gibbs is gone for good. So what has happened to the rest? Look at the stands or in the coaches box.

We are at a pretty low ebb at the moment, but think about it: our present available list is a long way from its best. But that does not need to be forever.

[I hate losing, but I look at the what we put on the field. I am happy in the way we are trying to rebuild and I will give the admin the benefit of the doubt for a little longer. But not forever.]

Re: 2018 Rd 6: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs

Reply #104 – April 28, 2018, 06:35:52 pm

Quote from: IvanAwfulbigone on April 28, 2018, 10:18:24 am

I don’t. I hope we never win again and that the Club as a going concern is wound up sooner rather than later. Then I can get on with my life and find something useful to do which might benefit my sanity and society.

Oh dear. That is a sad state of affairs.
You have my sympathy.
I just make sure I include other favorite things of a weekend. Helping my sanity no end. I'm also seeing this as a development year. As such I'm chuffed we've been spared the massive losses.